Ice Hockey Question

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Okay. so I've been watching NHL now for the second season, and over the course of those seasons, the guys who present the show on FIVE have mentioned something about a salary cap, and that if a deal ain't struck with the NHLPA (methinks) later on this year, then it will go on strike. And also that the next season might not happen and players like Forsberg will leave and play elsewhere.

Can somebody tell me what this all about, please?

Thank you :)

[The Icon of Elisim]

The unions contract runs out this season and if something isn't signed then there will be a work stopage, in which case players would either retire or play in the minors or Europe.

Basically the owners want a strict salary cap because they have been losing a lot of money and the players union thinks that the owners are fabricating the debt and thus won't accept a salary cap

The owners probably want something like the NFL has in terms of a salary cap. Every team would have the same payroll and wouldn't be allowed to exceed it and there would be no guaranteed money in contracts, players could be cut in the middle of their contracts without getting a pay out. So basically if it went through players would take a huge paycut and have minimal job security.

[VonErich Lives]

1) Chill w/ the sig.

2) NHL Hockey doesn't generate the money of other sports, and a good number of teams don't make money. The owners want to put in a Salary cap, this will keep teams competivie and profitable. It keeps say the rangers from spending whatever they want and getting all the top free agents and driving salaries sky high.
The flip side is the players, who don't want anything that can limit there income and while there may be the Jagr's and Lindros that throw the salary scale out of whack a majority of players are not paid very well (well, realitvely speaking to a pro athlete).

I think some sports have shown how a salary cap can work see Football, baseball has toy'd w/ the "luxury tax" and the NBA combines a salary cap w/ a luxury tax, but there are so many loopholes that most NBA teams operate over the cap year after year.

Honestly, I think the NHLPA will break first, I think much like the football strike that broke the NFLPA, there are too many hockey players that can't afford a year off and even worse, risk of the league folding. That being said, if they do take a year off, I wouldn't be shocked to see a few teams fold also.

That my understanding, Hockey isn't my "expertise" so Hero or Cheebs might have a better explanation.

[The CyNick]

The only thing I would add is that Forsberg may leave whether or not there is an NHL season next year. Basically, Forsberg, who is orignally from Sweden wants to raise his family in Sweden and since he's made enough money over the years in the NHL he could leave and live well for the rest of his life in Sweden. Plus, there are leagues (not the calibre of the NHL) in many European countries such as Sweden, so he could still earn an income if he wanted to continue to play hockey.

He's one of the best players in the NHL, so it would be sad to see him go, but I can understand his desire to go back home.

[Y2Ant]

Yeah, and after all the hard hits Forsberg has taken over the years, he wants to play in a league that prefers more skill over toughness, I read :o

And his dad is the coach of the team he wants to play for (MODO)

I don't really know how all the salary caps and stuff work in american sports, but it does seem like a fair thing to have in hockey, especially when you have teams like the Rangers like VEL said.

Whether one would work or not though, is another thing I guess :-\

[VonErich Lives]

So, here's a question... if there's no NHL this year, and top players go and play in europe, could we see PPV or TV deals for the euro teams? and could it be enough that if built properly gives the NHL a run for the money? especially while there is no NHL...

[MoRcHeEbA]

doubtful VEL lots of players wont go to europe to play. The WHA is suppose to be starting up again though and players like Hull,Chelios, guys who are late 30's and might retire soon are looking into that. It's been said Roenick will join that league instead of playing in europe. So we'll see.

as time goes on and on now though I'm kinda leaning towards everything being done now.

[road doggy dogg]

Who cares, I wouldn't wanna watch it anyways. Greedy bastards who jump ship at the first chance they get don't deserve my respect or the money gained by me watching them.


Anyways, as for the situation, yeah there might be a lockout next year. Sucks too, they should have a salary cap. It's kinda pathetic that the average NHL player has a higher salary than an NFL player.

[road doggy dogg]

That first part was in response to VEL there :o

[samichna]

Who cares, I wouldn't wanna watch it anyways. Greedy bastards who jump ship at the first chance they get don't deserve my respect or the money gained by me watching them.


Anyways, as for the situation, yeah there might be a lockout next year. Sucks too, they should have a salary cap. It's kinda pathetic that the average NHL player has a higher salary than an NFL player.


Why do you think it's pathetic?

[BCWWF]

There are two leagues that have good salary cap programs, the NFL and the NBA. The NHL and MLB has two of the worst, but what throws the NHL off so much is that the team spending all the money (Rangers) isn't good where as in MLB (Yankees) they are probably bringing in the most money.

The NHL players need to be reasonable about this, granted IMO neither side is 100% right, but they need to draw the line closer to the coaches than the players. NHL players are making more than they are worth, which is based on the worth of their teams and league. They need to be paid based upon how much the league brings in, so they don't lose money. Its a basic law of economics. And don't try to tell me they aren't making enough money, because they are clearly making more than the average person, minus endorsements etc, so its not like they are struggling to survive. The problem here is that people look at it as if the big leagues in the US are the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL, when in reality the NHL is a much smaller and much less profitable league, so it shouldn't be compared to the other leagues at all.

As to VEL's thing, maybe PPV, but doubtful, and there is no way that a European league would get a TV deal in the US. With the NHL struggling so much for ratings, they would never put European hockey on tv. I have always wanted them to put big European soccer matches on TV instead of those Rodeo's and "Extreme Sports" they have random weekends, but there is just no way they would do that. Most of the viewers come from a teams hometown, and with no hometowns there is no way that ESPN or anything would pick up something like that up.

[The Icon of Elisim]

How can you say that the NBA salary cap works and the MLB cap doesn't? They're pretty much the same

[The Icon of Elisim]

Honestly, I think the NHLPA will break first, I think much like the football strike that broke the NFLPA, there are too many hockey players that can't afford a year off and even worse, risk of the league folding. That being said, if they do take a year off, I wouldn't be shocked to see a few teams fold also.


Football players didn't have the options that hockey players have in terms of other leagues. NFL guys could really only go to the CFL whereas hockey players have Europe and the WHA

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">
one other point i think should be mentioned is that it would most likely be a lockout brought about by the owners rather then the players themselves striking. i'm not sure but it might make a difference in terms of players under contract to individual teams being able to play elsewhere. also the owners are to blame because when it comes down to it, they are the ones paying the players and signing the contracts.

another point is that i don't think the problem is the elite players like say sakic or foresberg making what they do, it's the players probably in like the 2-4 million or so range that are being overpayed and plus there's so many of them, bobby holik is like one example that comes to mind.

</font>

[The Outlaw]

Why do you think it's pathetic?

If I had to guess, I would say he said that because the NFL brings in a lot more money than the NHL, being stupid that the average NHL player makes more than an NFL player.

Then again, I'm not tony so I cant speak for him. :p

[BCWWF]

Its rediculous, its like paying the CEO of a gas station the same as the CEO for Microsoft just because they are both CEO's. The professional hockey player shouldnt get as much as a pro basketball player just because they are professional athletes. Its common sense.

[road doggy dogg]

Why do you think it's pathetic?

'Cause like Outlaw said, NFL has tons more revenue than the NHL. It is a more well-known and popular sport in the US (where, quite frankly, is the bigger market)

Sure, hockey is big up here in Canada, but our money isn't worth as much as in the US, and since most teams are based there (and even then, the Canadian teams pay their players in US currency I think), hockey just isn't as financially sound as a sport like football in the US.


It's just stupid, since football obviously makes more money from TV deals (Superbowl, anyone), merchandising, ticket sales, etc etc etc... so you'd think that because of the lower market and all, NHL players would make less... it's just smart business. Offering players contracts that make up nearly a third of another team's entire payroll is just retarded.

But whatever... if they want to put themselves out of business that's their problem, not mine.

[samichna]

That is true that the NFL is a wayyyyy bigger money earner, but personally IMO NHLers bust tehir asses way harder than NFL players.

I get the NFL and all the teams are just fiscally smarter. Plus, in the NFL, all the teams share the TV revenue, so it's worth it for them to have a salary cap.

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah I know what you're saying. Generally, hockey players work harder than football players and all.

And even moreso, there's a lot more players on one NFL team than on an NHL team, so it makes sense if an average NHL salary is a bit higher. But when you see an NHL team salary in the $70-80 million range, then it's just a bit ridiculous.

[samichna]

Plus with all the teams, the talent pool is so diluted. Bunch of jerk asses playing in the big leagues who don't deserve to be there.

[samichna]

(In both leagues that is)

[The Outlaw]

IMO I dont really think you can compare a hockey player's work ethic to a football players. Or maybe I am completely wrong? :)

It's like comparing apples to pumpkins :shifty:

[road doggy dogg]

Well I'm not saying football players are pussies or anything like that. But honestly, a football player plays 16 games a season, whereas a hockey player (hopefully) plays 82. Much more grueling schedule. Plus football players are on the field less (offense, defense, etc) I'm not saying hockey players are some kinda marathon men or anything, 'cause compared to soccer players they're nothing special in terms of endurance. But I think they gotta work harder on a more consistant basis, type thing. :$

[The CyNick]

I think football is the toughest of the major sports if we're just talking about one game. But in terms of an overall season, I think hockey players have it much tougher. As RDD said, 82 games vs 16 games, and beyond that if you want to win the Championship, you're talking about an extra 2 months of play and upwards of 28 games.

[The Outlaw]

Oh yeah, true. I was just really thinking of how football players have to work out 24/7 and be in tip top shape and etc. Wasn't really thinking of schedule wise. :$

[VonErich Lives]

Football players didn't have the options that hockey players have in terms of other leagues. NFL guys could really only go to the CFL whereas hockey players have Europe and the WHA

Yeah but how many nhl players will make anywhere near what they were getting in the nhl?

As for the Caps...

Baseball isn't a cap, they have a luxury tax over a certain amount.

Now basketball actually had a hard cap like football, but they have "exceptions" which the big one is, you can go over the cap to resign you own player, and then there are rules about if you lose a player you can use their "slot" for someone else. That being said, when your over the cap by a certain amount, there's a luxury tax, but thats after the cap.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Well the guys who are getting the good money, and by that I mostly mean the overpaid veterans, realise that what they will get with the cap is probably less than what they would get in Europe

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Thanks for clearing it up for me. :y: :)

I wouldn't be any good at the salary thing, my team salary for the Dynasty mode on NHL 2004 is $110 Million :shifty: lol

[Y2Ant]

Naslund-Sakic-Bertuzzi
Kariya-Federov-Selanne
Elias-Lecavalier-St. Louis
Kovalchuk-Thornton-Heatley

Lidstrom-Blake
Gonchar-Niedermayer
Pronger-Jovonovski

Giguere and Turco

$200 million :cool:

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Naslund-Sakic-Bertuzzi
Kariya-Federov-Selanne
Elias-Lecavalier-St. Louis
Kovalchuk-Thornton-Heatley

Lidstrom-Blake
Gonchar-Niedermayer
Pronger-Jovonovski

Giguere and Turco

$200 million :cool:

LOL

Some of us actually want to make a profit.

Gonna have a huge salary dump at the end of this current season. :(