Why is wrestling stereotyped? How to stop the stereotypes? [Archive]

KyleEmmott

11-12-2012, 04:46 PM

The average person that doesn't watch wrestling usually calls it 'fake','garbage','stupid'. A question I get, "You do know its fake, right?" I have a buddy that calls it a "Redneck Soap Opera". As an avid wrestling fan, it really bugs me that the general public looks at professional wrestling as crap, when its actually an artform. I find it annoying constantly correcting and informing people what professional wrestling actually is. Why do you think wrestling has been perceived as something so low by people? How can professional wrestling or let's say the WWE (The general public only knows of that company) show non-watchers, it really is something entertaining and not garbage?

CSL

11-12-2012, 04:50 PM

because roughly 90% of wrestling fans are spastics

Kane Knight

11-12-2012, 04:52 PM

How dare they call a fake sport fake?

A better question is "when will pro wrestling fans put on their big boy pants and stop giving a shit about stereotypes?"

#1-norm-fan

11-12-2012, 04:56 PM

The "You know it's fake, right?" question when someone simply finds out you're a fan of wrestling is pretty retarded though.

Kane Knight

11-12-2012, 04:58 PM

The "You know it's fake, right?" question when someone simply finds out you're a fan of wrestling is pretty retarded though.

True. I usually compare it to "documentaries" like John Carter or Conan.

CSL

11-12-2012, 04:58 PM

nowhere near as retarded as having it said to you when somebody finds out you're a wrestler. We live in a special world.

#BROKEN Hasney

11-12-2012, 05:07 PM

nowhere near as retarded as having it said to you when somebody finds out you're a wrestler. We live in a special world.

I hope next time someone asks, you just go "WHAT?!?" and freak out, jumping out of the window of the building you're in.

itsmeJD

11-12-2012, 05:10 PM

I usually just deadpan that it isn't fake and provide no argument to support my opinion. When they continue I just silently shake my head no while covering my ears until they walk away.

#1-norm-fan

11-12-2012, 05:25 PM

The easy comeback of course is to ask them what their favorite television show is and then say "Umm... You know it's fake, right?"

itsmeJD

11-12-2012, 05:28 PM

Unless their favorite show was Cops or the Price is Right, then you'd be fucked.

itsmeJD

11-12-2012, 05:29 PM

Off subject, but god damn if the new Price is Right isn't bright as holy shit in terms of color. I went slap fucking blind when I tried to watch it the other day...

CSL

11-12-2012, 05:32 PM

The easy comeback of course is to ask them what their favorite television show is and then say "Umm... You know it's fake, right?"

did this/was heading in that direction once with some pissed up old bird who decided she needed to tell me wrestling was a work in a beer garden a few years back and by the end of it she swore blind/maintained that she didn't watch any variety of television show or film, only "car racing"

itsmeJD

11-12-2012, 05:33 PM

LOL "car racing".

#1-norm-fan

11-12-2012, 05:34 PM

Unless their favorite show was Cops or the Price is Right, then you'd be fucked.

Then you ask their favorite movie.

Chances are they enjoy something that is scripted and meeting their condescending question with something that says "See how fucking stupid you sounded when you asked that question?" is fun.

#1-norm-fan

11-12-2012, 05:35 PM

did this/was heading in that direction once with some pissed up old bird who decided she needed to tell me wrestling was a work in a beer garden a few years back and by the end of it she swore blind/maintained that she didn't watch any variety of television show or film, only "car racing"

lol what!?

itsmeJD

11-12-2012, 05:38 PM

Then you ask their favorite movie.

Chances are they enjoy something that is scripted and meeting their condescending question with something that says "See how fucking stupid you sounded when you asked that question?" is fun.

Yeah I know, I'm just being a dick. I've always hated the whole real/fake conversation. I usually just say, "All TV is fake, what's it matter?" Most usually drop it there.

Anybody Thrilla

11-12-2012, 05:43 PM

I enjoy wrestling, and I generally don't have to talk about that to a lot of strangers in public. I have you guys for that.

Wishbone

11-12-2012, 05:48 PM

Wishbone

11-12-2012, 05:50 PM

On the subject though I once had someone come up to me when I was wearing an old HHH shirt (the king of kings black one with the skull and crown from like back in 2006 or something) anyway they started with the "It's fake" crap and this kid who's like probably 8 or 9 walks up and pulls the "It's still real to me damnit!" line. I loled so fucking hard.

voncouch

11-12-2012, 05:54 PM

I always explain it as base theater. It's a simple theater-in-the-round morality tale of good vs evil with two people telling the story through their bodies. The tradition goes all the way back to the Greeks. As far as the fake thing, that's theater. That's film. That's TV. It's all fake. Anyone who gets upset that wrestling is "fake" are the same people who watch Jurassic Park and get upset that the dinosaurs weren't real.

It's all theater, it's all entertainment. And as with any live performance, if it's being performed by people who are experts at their craft, it can transcend into art.

DaveBrawl

11-12-2012, 06:01 PM

Let's not bash car racing until we find out who wins the Nascar championship. If it isn't the 2 car then proceed with the bashing.

DaveBrawl

11-12-2012, 06:02 PM

Also wrestling clowns, turkeys and garbagemen did not help the reputation of our beloved institution.

Double D

11-12-2012, 07:56 PM

I usually tell people I only watch real sports, like wrestling. Then tell them everything else is fake.

#1-norm-fan

11-12-2012, 07:56 PM

I enjoy wrestling, and I generally don't have to talk about that to a lot of strangers in public. I have you guys for that.

I've actually been asked the "You know it's fake, right?" question by family members.

drave

11-12-2012, 08:07 PM

Off subject, but god damn if the new Price is Right isn't bright as holy shit in terms of color. I went slap fucking blind when I tried to watch it the other day...

This had me pissing myself. :rofl:

The rest of the world just can't accept that all their sports are all a work. At least Wrestling admits it.

Skippord

11-12-2012, 08:49 PM

because roughly 90% of wrestling fans are spastics
wish you would have said 99%

then I could have been all: "WE ARE THE 1%"

Razzamajazz

11-12-2012, 09:37 PM

why the hell do you care about what someone else's opinion is about what you watch?

weather vane

11-12-2012, 09:39 PM

Also because 99% of wrestling is fucking ridiculous...

Gertner

11-13-2012, 01:21 AM

Artistic Combat

Kane Knight

11-13-2012, 01:49 AM

I hope next time someone asks, you just go "WHAT?!?" and freak out, jumping out of the window of the building you're in.

Yeah, that'll show 'em!

did this/was heading in that direction once with some pissed up old bird who decided she needed to tell me wrestling was a work in a beer garden a few years back and by the end of it she swore blind/maintained that she didn't watch any variety of television show or film, only "car racing"

Dude, you want some ice for that burn?

Artistic Combat

***Autistic.

SlickyTrickyDamon

11-13-2012, 02:26 AM

I've actually been asked the "You know it's fake, right?" question by family members.

Tell em "you know God is fake right?" Boom. That'll learn 'em.

#1-norm-fan

11-13-2012, 03:11 AM

... You seem to know me too well...

dronepool

11-13-2012, 03:24 AM

Because there is a large percentage of people who take it really seriously and give it a bad name, just like any type of fan base.

Mr. Nerfect

11-13-2012, 05:28 AM

Also because 99% of wrestling is fucking ridiculous...

This goes into it a fair bit. Guys pretending to beat each other up is perfectly fine and normal -- but wrestling finds this way to make it xenophobic, sexist (while at the same time claiming to empower women), nonsensical and sometimes just plain fucking stupid -- all the while claiming to be a morality play. One of the most successful eras the business has ever seen was the Attitude era, and it wasn't because it wasn't "PG." I imagine a lot of it was because it was one of the most testosterone-filled vicarious outlets for male aggression out there.

All the things wrong with wrestling are, conversely, what makes it work. Cena would be instantly cheered by everyone in the audience if he just admitted he was a violent sociopath, and he did totally screw AJ because he's a big star and can do whatever he wants. Then when Vince comes out to punish Cena for not being an acceptable face for the company any more, he gives him an FU and then has a few beers with Michael Cole, before giving him an FU for being "weak" and in that position in the first place.

Shisen Kopf

11-13-2012, 08:46 AM

Artistic Combat

Rassle Art

Zeeboe

11-13-2012, 10:20 AM

I guess because it tries to portrays as a serious sport with legitimate competition when it's clearly not - Between some of the cartoonish characters, the whacky storylines, and some of the crazy fans, it's hard for some serious sports fans and some people in general to take it seriously.

DLVH84

11-13-2012, 12:24 PM

I grew up in Germany and my view of pro wrestling is treated as a sport, not entertainment. When I moved to America in 1991, it's like culture shock, it's the other way around. I still treat pro wrestling as a sport, not entertainment.

CSL

11-13-2012, 12:26 PM

I grew up in Germany and my view of pro wrestling is treated as a sport, not entertainment.

bullshitty shit shit

#1-norm-fan

11-13-2012, 12:28 PM

Zeeboe

11-13-2012, 01:56 PM

That right there is a perfect example of why some people look down on wrestling's fans -I am a fan, but it's not a sport. How can it be a sport when the wrestlers already know who is going to win the match, and they are not out there competing with each other? i.e. Not trying to hurt each other. Not to mention, ESPN never shares the results of the matches. It's not a sport. It's a form of live theater where the performers do their own stunts and settle their drama in a ring by doing what is called "combat theater".

drave

11-13-2012, 05:39 PM

sport/spôrt/
Noun:
An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others

Seems legit.

CSL

11-13-2012, 07:03 PM

drave

11-13-2012, 07:11 PM

But they DO strive to out do one another for acknowledgment, a prize, supremacy, AND profits, amirite?

CSL

11-13-2012, 07:21 PM

not when it comes to the match/so called "competition" itself

drave

11-13-2012, 07:30 PM

All sport is a work, accept it.

SlickyTrickyDamon

11-14-2012, 08:06 AM

That sort of statement is why people feel the way they do about wrestling fans.

Zeeboe

11-14-2012, 11:33 AM

Films, plays, and TV shows are "fake" too, but they're not calling themselves a sport, nor do they try to make people think what they are watching is real, whereas some people still think wrestlers try to convince the audience that the matches are real and some fans like to call it a sport even though McMahon (among others) admitted ages ago it is all fake.

I think pro wrestling use to be real perhaps many moons ago in the days of Stu Hart and Lou Thesz until the suits realized they could make more money by staging it. Not to mention enough men were probably not desiring to become wrestlers since it would be a very dangerous sport if it was real, and illegal most likely in some places.

Kane Knight

11-14-2012, 11:56 AM

Has pro wrestling advertised itself as a sport in the last 20 years or so?

By "pro wrestling," I mean any player of even minor significance. Not the "Federation" St Jimmy books in his back yard.

11-14-2012, 05:32 PM

Virtually everything is stereotyped to some degree. Black people are criminals, white people have no rhythm, Latinos are lazy, Jews are "tight" with money, etc, etc.

You really shouldn't worry about it.

Also, wrestling is ridiculous and people love to state the obvious.

#1-norm-fan

11-14-2012, 05:36 PM

Virtually everything is stereotyped to some degree. Black people are criminals, white people have no rhythm, Latinos are lazy, Jews are "tight" with money, etc, etc.

I thought black people are lazy and Latinos do a ton of manual labor for little pay via getting picked up while standing outside hardware stores?

Gertner

11-15-2012, 12:43 AM

Shisen Kopf

11-15-2012, 12:49 AM

I thought black people are lazy and Latinos do a ton of manual labor for little pay via getting picked up while standing outside hardware stores?

I think the main difference between the blacks and the Hispanics is that blacks fight dogs and Mexicans fight chickens. That's about it really.

drave

11-15-2012, 10:15 AM

I think the main difference between the blacks and the Hispanics is that blacks fight dogs and Mexicans fight chickens. That's about it really.

Who would rassle Jaggers first? Moreover, who gets the rub, and who does the job?

11-15-2012, 12:41 PM

I thought black people are lazy and Latinos do a ton of manual labor for little pay via getting picked up while standing outside hardware stores?

Pardon my misconceptions. We don't get many Latinos around here.

Ol Dirty Dastard

11-15-2012, 04:13 PM

Honestly, if they managed to make it more of a spectacle these days and made things seem important, it wouldn't have the bad reputation it does. It would just be something else on t.v. But it's so bad, rushed, and lowest common denominator that the general consensus is that it's crap. If the WWE actually took time to produce a decent product people wouldn't say the things they do about wrestling, or have the same feelings.

Mind you I wouldn't want it to be like ROH, that sort of takes away the larger than life spectacle of it. I just wish it could be a tad more engaging so people were taken by it. Wrestling used to garner absolutely massive ratings and people were all about respecting the performers. The problem is, a bunch of things happen and none of it means anything. If storylines were more engaging and heartfelt, people would respect wreslters more as performers and be amazed at what they do. Instead, the product treats itself like a joke thus it is taken by most as a joke. The fact that when Steve Austin mentioned to Vince McMahon he wanted to be a cold as ice killer type character, McMahon came up with the idea "Chilly McFreeze" should suggest why people think it's a low rent joke.

I only refer to the WWE because that's what most people would equate to wrestling.

Rhaps

11-15-2012, 06:06 PM

Films, plays, and TV shows are "fake" too,.... nor do they try to make people think what they are watching is real.

They kinda do though. I never watched an episode of say, *looks at what's on TV* The Big Bang Theory in which before it starts we're told "btw, this ain't real."

Ultra Mantis

11-15-2012, 07:33 PM

There's also an alarming number of people who think actors are exactly the same as the characters they portray on TV.

Fignuts

11-15-2012, 08:22 PM

com·pete [kuhm-peet] Show IPA
verb (used without object), com·pet·ed, com·pet·ing.
to strive to outdo another for acknowledgment, a prize, supremacy, profit, etc.; engage in a contest; vie

not really

not when it comes to the match/so called "competition" itself

By that logic, there are any number of things that could be considered a sport.

I think the important thing to remember, is that just because pro wrestling is not a sport, that fact doesn't diminish the extraordinary performances that take place in the ring.

So, while I wouldn't classify it as a sport, I don't see why that should even matter.

CSL

11-15-2012, 08:48 PM

I are confused

do you think I was calling it a sport?

Fignuts

11-15-2012, 10:10 PM

My bad. Should have been directed at drave82. Didn't read all the posts and mixed up who was being sarcastic and who wasn't. You win this round internet.

He seems like a good poster. Rare to find new blood on tpww that is actually coherent and can engage in normal conversation.

Shit username though.

Should have gone with Lieutenant Bloodfist.

Fignuts

11-15-2012, 10:11 PM

God, my avatar loses all it's coolness on tpww white. Switching back.

drave

11-16-2012, 08:46 AM

Meh, I don't care one way or the other really. I consider it a "sport" because of the athleticism and what not. Care cup is empty on the fixed results, I'm entertained none the less.

Thanks for the slight rub, been visiting this site for YEARS, just never registered on the forums, I was a lurker :D

To stay on topic, we had a meeting @ work this morning and the pres asked if anyone had any big plans for the weekend. I announced, to my entire division, that I was going to Survivor Series this weekend and it was better than what anyone else has planned hands down. The looks around the room were classic "EERRRMMEERRRRGEERRRRRD WRASSLIN?!"

No shame!

Kane Knight

11-16-2012, 12:14 PM

You know it's fake, right?

Kane Knight

11-16-2012, 12:18 PM

I mostly attribute the whole vehement reaction to the notion that it's fake or not a sport as the typical behaviour of any cult or nerd subculture. Wrestling fans, especially internet wrestling fans, tend to be somewhere between Trekkie and "don't drink the Kool-Aid." One of the marks of both cults and nerd culture is hostility towards outsiders.

I have trouble seeing people who get up in your face over calling wrestling "fake" any different from the people who hate the label "comic books" and instead whine that they're "sequential art." It comes down to "we don't like the term, so tantrum."

I think the reaction does more to strengthen the stereotype than anything else.

drave

11-16-2012, 01:05 PM

#1-norm-fan

11-16-2012, 02:02 PM

It's not being told it's fake that is retarded. If the subject comes up where you are trying to defend it as not being fake in any way, by all means someone should feel free to say "it's fake".

It's when the "You know it's fake..." comes simply from the notion that you enjoy it. As if they're literally saying "You shouldn't enjoy it because it's fake."

I've seriously said something about enjoying wrestling and had someone say "You know it's fake, right?" And they deserved to be punched for being a fucking moron.

Kane Knight

11-16-2012, 02:24 PM

I know it, love it and am entertained by it :D

Never seen people get hostile over being told it's fake, but that would be silly indeed. And you are spot on with other "art" forms being held in a different light :y:

People have gotten their asses in slings on this very site over it. There was also much schadenfreude when Edge told off a reporter or interviewer for calling it fake.

Apparently, it's not fake if you can get injured doing it. Which means action movies are also not fake.

Kane Knight

11-16-2012, 02:25 PM

Personally, when people ask me why I like pro wrestling (assuming they don't lead in with the fake comments), I just say "where else can I watch big oily dudes grope each other for free?"

That usually ends the conversation.

drave

11-16-2012, 02:39 PM

Apparently, it's not fake if you can get injured doing it. Which means action movies are also not fake

I <345 your logic

Hell, I'm sure people can take it back to the late 80's early 90's when Vader grabbed the reporter and hit him, asking him if it felt fake. Vader was/is a badass.

Personally, when people ask me why I like pro wrestling (assuming they don't lead in with the fake comments), I just say "where else can I watch big oily dudes grope each other for free?"

I too, employ this method at times. On occasion, is has warranted unwanted follow up questions, like "Wat r u doing this weekend". and I reply with something like "watching wrestling marathons....... nekkid"

Then the convo ends :D

dingdongyo

11-16-2012, 10:19 PM

Also wrestling clowns...did not help the reputation of our beloved institution.

hey. i liked doink.

Juan

11-16-2012, 10:20 PM

Doink 3:16

DaveBrawl

11-17-2012, 07:54 AM

We all liked Doink but he wasn't exactly a beacon of respect.

Kane Knight

11-17-2012, 12:02 PM

I <345 your logic

Hell, I'm sure people can take it back to the late 80's early 90's when Vader grabbed the reporter and hit him, asking him if it felt fake. Vader was/is a badass.

I too, employ this method at times. On occasion, is has warranted unwanted follow up questions, like "Wat r u doing this weekend". and I reply with something like "watching wrestling marathons....... nekkid"

Then the convo ends :D

Awkward silences for all!

dingdongyo

11-18-2012, 12:43 PM

CSL

11-18-2012, 01:00 PM

what is this roller derby talk

dingdongyo

11-18-2012, 01:25 PM

what is this? roller derby talk?
what is this roller derby? talk.
what? is this roller derby talk?

i don't know how to respond. so... yes.

CSL

11-18-2012, 01:28 PM

ARE YOU REALLY MAKING A PUNCTUALITY QUIP AFTER THIS PARAGRAPH BUDDY?

i do coaching/skating with a local roller derby league here. casual fans refuse to get into the sport/technicalities of it. whenever i mention rules, points, strategies, etc., people immediately fall asleep. the only allure to anyone, male or female, is a bunch of girls with wild nicknames in skates and flashy costumes with ass-jacker stockings throwing elbows at each other. what sport?

CSL

11-18-2012, 01:31 PM

somewhere, Seth82 is talking shit about actors for pretending to be other people

Kane Knight

11-18-2012, 01:31 PM

it's one of those things people like to stereotype. gives them a sense of being superior to something. "as bad as your life gets, at least you aren't a wrestling fan."

i do coaching/skating with a local roller derby league here. casual fans refuse to get into the sport/technicalities of it. whenever i mention rules, points, strategies, etc., people immediately fall asleep. the only allure to anyone, male or female, is a bunch of girls with wild nicknames in skates and flashy costumes with ass-jacker stockings throwing elbows at each other. what sport?

so, the only reason they like it at all is because it is like wrestling. weird.

It really doesn't hurt that pro wrestling is about as low as one can get on the "lowest common denominator" totem poll. On the other hand, it's still not Jersey Shore. :shifty:

I doubt we'll change the stereotype because wrestling ain't about to get more classy. And really, I doubt wrestling fans care about this too much. I mean, maybe we want to forget Katie Vick or the birth of the hand, but if we were looking for sophistication, we'd head elsewhere.

Call it a guilty pleasure if you want. Or, say you enjoy it "ironically" like a douchebag hipster. Everybody likes hipsters, right?

Corporate CockSnogger

11-18-2012, 01:33 PM

The hundreds of creatures making youtube videos crying just because wrestler x din't beat wrestler y and then going on and on about why they think they'd do a much better job, and thus go into detail telling the whole 4 people who will watch the video how they would run things is probably why wrestling is steretyped.

Kane Knight

11-18-2012, 01:34 PM

somewhere, Seth82 is talking shit about actors for pretending to be other people

And insisting that wrestlers who pretended to be real combatants before he was born are superior to the ones who pretend far less now.

What? I wanted to fuse both his personality traits.

dingdongyo

11-18-2012, 02:49 PM

I doubt we'll change the stereotype because wrestling ain't about to get more classy. And really, I doubt wrestling fans care about this too much.

i suppose i don't care about it much as a wrestling fan either. when i see it happen with something i'm more involved in, it does get irritating though. mostly because it limits the potential of what it could be. i don't give a shit if people i've never heard of think wrestling is stupid. but when i'm personally invested in something and i see people dismissing it for the wrong reasons, well, that kinda sucks.

short version: i can see it both ways.

Kane Knight

11-18-2012, 06:18 PM

I can see it both ways, I just can't really be arsed to care. It's a fun, visceral, form of cheap entertainment, and I'm fine with that.

I understand why others might care, but I just can't be bothered beyon snark.

Cool King

11-19-2012, 06:10 PM

I was speaking to a guy that's in my class today who I rarely talk to and I mentioned that I was really tired.

He asked me why and I told him that I was awake until 4am watching stuff. He asked me what I was watching and when I replied with "Wrestling", he gave me a weird look and said "You know that's all fixed, right?".

When I said to him "Yeah, I know it's all predetermined", he laughed a bit and said "Thank God for that".

It also made me think of this thread. I just thought I would share that story with you all.