WWE should "stack RAW" with it's highest drawing wrestlers

[Heyman]

WWE should "stack RAW" with it's highest drawing wrestlers

Here's what the WWE should do in my opinion.

1) Rank every single wrestler, top to bottom, based on how much they draw on average per viewership, quarterly segments, etc.

2) Put the first half of that list on RAW (I.e. the biggest draws), and the second half of that list on Smackdown.

What this achieves:

1) RAW is now a stacked show in terms of potential for interest, and now has an (outside) shot of bringing in new viewers and/or rekindling serious interest.

2) Smackdown is now forced to re-invent itself by taking currently existing characters, and making them interesting or changing their gimmick. This could be the place where see our "Terra Ryzing's" morph into our future HHH's.


-WWE goes back to its traditional roster split (I'd do it after Mania).
-every 18 months, a draft takes place just like it did a few years ago.
-RAW goes back to 2 hours. Smackdown remains a 2 hour show.
-John Cena turns heel at Wrestlemania.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm all for the roster split coming back. It would force a little order into the mess they have going right now as far as booking and the identity of the titles.


-RAW goes back to 2 hours. Smackdown remains a 2 hour show.
-John Cena turns heel at Wrestlemania.

You lost me here however...

[Heyman]

-RAW as a 3 hour show seems to be too long and drawn out (if the ratings are of any indication).

-John Cena going heel is pretty much the only thing in the WWE right now that could create enough shock to piqué some substantial interest.

[#1-norm-fan]

-RAW as a 3 hour show seems to be too long and drawn out (if the ratings are of any indication).

-John Cena going heel is pretty much the only thing in the WWE right now that could create enough shock to piqué some substantial interest.

Both of these issues can be solved by better booking and doing either of these things would basically be throwing money away.

[Heyman]

Both of these issues can be solved by better booking and doing either of these things would basically be throwing money away.

I can agree with the first part of your statement. Regarding the Cena heel turn however, I think it could be similar to Hogan/WCW/nWo.

If WCW could turn the biggest name in wrestling history into a heel (successfully), then I can't see why the WWE can't do that with Cena.

By turning Cena, it forces the WWE to push and create new "franchise faces."

[#1-norm-fan]

I have much less faith in WWE's bookers than WCW's in '96. They should create new franchise faces regardless. They're on their way with Ryback. If they turn Cena and he ends up as the same old generic pussy heel that they always do when someone turns heel, they'd be losing a shitload of money.

[Heyman]

I have much less faith in WWE's bookers than WCW's in '96. They should create new franchise faces regardless. They're on their way with Ryback.

As long as Cena is face however, he'll always be the #1 good guy.

We saw what happened this past year with CM Punk (when Punk was face). Even as world champ, he took a definitive backseat to Cena. Ryback would most likely be in that same boat.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well they just weren't able to get Punk over to the same level as Cena. It came down to booking (and maybe the fact that Punk just isn't the type of guy who can be a "franchise player".) They need to get some guys to that level first and then they can think about a Cena turn.

[Bad News Gertner]

Well they just weren't able to get Punk over to the same level as Cena. It came down to booking (and maybe the fact that Punk just isn't the type of guy who can be a "franchise player".) They need to get some guys to that level first and then they can think about a Cena turn.

THANK YOU! This is why I've been against a Cena heel turn. You'd need to have a franchise level face. People already cheer Punk and boo Cena. All they'd be doing is losing merchandise money.

[drave]

If they turn him heel, he should return from a hiatus with the new "ATTITUDE". The hiatus would serve purpose to completely repackage him, complete with marketability for "heel cena" merch. It could have potential.

I see where both WWF and Heyman come from. Cena will always be #1 Face..... but while he is there, no one else can really be "that guy". You take a risk by turning him heel, which could allow for a new "face" to take said spot. The Hogan turn is slightly reminiscent of that, and on paper it could work.

Just thinking with the mixed reactions Cena gets, would people simply switch sides? The kids/moms booing him while tweeners cheer? I think ratings would soar with a Cena heel turn, but they would definitely need some planning to get it to stick.

[drave]

Kinda like Punk and his face push.....

His whole respect thing started when he laid out Rock. I get why it was done and I get the gimmick of the angle....... but he was cheered up until that point. He just had to turn his back on the fans and build on it. Now people love to hate him.

I think Cena, whether face or heel, will still be a "top guy".

[Ultra Mantis]

There's not much variation on who appears on RAW each week in the first place, all you'd really be doing is putting all the Superstars jobbers on Smackdown.

[Hanso Amore]

THANK YOU! This is why I've been against a Cena heel turn. You'd need to have a franchise level face. People already cheer Punk and boo Cena. All they'd be doing is losing merchandise money.

Top Notch Heel Cena still sells merchandise.

HHH has never had an issue making money as a dominant Heel. Let Cena use that formula.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Even if they did something like this, I highly doubt they'd officially enforce the brand split. At this point, the only reason it even exists is to run 2 different sets of house shows every weekend and fans have an idea of who they'll see competing. Putting all of the big names on one show could kill SmackDown house show attendance.

Looking at WWE.com, Raw's roster is still way more stacked than SmackDown's even before making any other changes:

Raw - Cena, Punk, Ryback, Team Hell No, The Shield, Miz, Kofi, Santino, R-Truth, Brodus
SD - Orton, Sheamus, Big Show, Del Rio, Rhodes Scholars, Christian, Cesaro, Prime Time Players</font>

[#1-norm-fan]

The demographic was much different when HHH was a dominant heel. And even then, HHH also had top tier faces on the roster with him.

[#1-norm-fan]

Isn't Ryback on the Smackdown roster technically?

[James Steele]

Top Notch Heel Cena still sells merchandise.

HHH has never had an issue making money as a dominant Heel. Let Cena use that formula.

Kinda hard for Cena to pull off wearing "badass shirts" when he's been wearing rainbow inspirational poster shirts for the past 7 years.

[Evil Vito]

Isn't Ryback on the Smackdown roster technically?

<font color=goldenrod>Nope, they switched him over to Raw.</font>

[#1-norm-fan]

I guess there's really no way to tell who's where anymore without looking it up. I just remember he started on Smackdown and I don't remember any reference to him being "traded" to Raw or anything. This roster split really is horrible. lol

[Heyman]

Kinda hard for Cena to pull off wearing "badass shirts" when he's been wearing rainbow inspirational poster shirts for the past 7 years.

Again.

Hogan. WCW. 1996.

Hogan was a far bigger face and legend than Cena was, and like Cena, had been a face for numerous years.

If Hogan could make the turn, then so can Cena.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I don't think they will judge whether or not to keep Raw 3 hours until they see more ratings after Monday Night Football closes up shop.

[Evil Vito]

I guess there's really no way to tell who's where anymore without looking it up. I just remember he started on Smackdown and I don't remember any reference to him being "traded" to Raw or anything. This roster split really is horrible. lol

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah, Daniel Bryan was on the SmackDown roster for some time too and only got moved to the Raw roster recently. Ditto for Brodus Clay, who went from Raw to SmackDown (when he was "banned" from Raw), and is now listed as a part of Raw again.

They don't do a draft anymore because there's no reason to. I think they just update the roster page whenever there's a change to house show lineups.</font>

[#1-norm-fan]

Again.

Hogan. WCW. 1996.

Hogan was a far bigger face and legend than Cena was, and like Cena, had been a face for numerous years.

If Hogan could make the turn, then so can Cena.

Different time period. Different demographic. And when Hogan turned there were faces that were already huge. They didn't turn him and then try to get someone to "fill his spot". There were already guys at that level.

[#1-norm-fan]

And even if he did make money still, there's no way he makes more money for the company as a heel without some genius booking. For Hogan it was the NWO. Cena's heel turn would cause about a month of interest based on the shock and then you'd have to rely on these writers to keep him hot.

[Kane Knight]

I don't think they will judge whether or not to keep Raw 3 hours until they see more ratings after Monday Night Football closes up shop.

I doubt that's changing a thing.

[Hanso Amore]

Kinda hard for Cena to pull off wearing "badass shirts" when he's been wearing rainbow inspirational poster shirts for the past 7 years.

I dont even understand what the point of this is.

[Hanso Amore]

Again.

Hogan. WCW. 1996.

Hogan was a far bigger face and legend than Cena was, and like Cena, had been a face for numerous years.

If Hogan could make the turn, then so can Cena.

Agreed. Did Hogan wearing Yellow and red somehow prevent a heel turn? NO.

In fact it helped drive home the turn. Seeing Hogan in black blew my fucking mind.

Take Cena out of Jorts and silly outfits with a hat, and you have something different to contrast his former face self.

[Hanso Amore]

Different time period. Different demographic. And when Hogan turned there were faces that were already huge. They didn't turn him and then try to get someone to "fill his spot". There were already guys at that level.

Bullshit.

WCW was the dumps. Sting was a "star" but was hardly a franchise face. Flair was old. WCW was dying.

They turned Hogan and made Sting a Legend. Think about that. In the Months before the NWO was formed Sting and Luger were in the tag division. 6 Months later sting was the hottest commodity in wrestling and was the face of the company. He was the driving force behind the biggest boon in wrestling history.

[Hanso Amore]

Not to mention Heel Hogan helped get Luger over the hump as a mega face as well. He was inconsistent for years, but when he was chasing Hogan and beat him, it was the first time he was accepted as the man. Then they booked it all away and WCW went downhill.

[Hanso Amore]

Different time period. Different demographic. And when Hogan turned there were faces that were already huge. They didn't turn him and then try to get someone to "fill his spot". There were already guys at that level.

Also, hate the "DIFFERENT TIME BLAH BLAH"

Wrestling is cyclical. Same Shit every few years and it works. Turning Cena Heel will make money like turning Hogan Heel made money and turning Macho made money and turning Andre made money and....

[#1-norm-fan]

WCW was the dumps. Sting was a "star" but was hardly a franchise face.

... What?

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, hate the "DIFFERENT TIME BLAH BLAH"

Wrestling is cyclical. Same Shit every few years and it works. Turning Cena Heel will make money like turning Hogan Heel made money and turning Macho made money and turning Andre made money and....

Yeah. Fuck writing ability. Turn heel, profit!

[Hanso Amore]

Yeah. Fuck writing ability. Turn heel, profit!

YEah, it would never work. The guy has been dumped on by half the audience for years, and is constantly put in his place by bigger names.

No way they could ever swing that into a properly written heel turn.

[Hanso Amore]

... What?

Did I stutter?

[#1-norm-fan]

That half that cheers him also spends way more money on him than the half that boos him would if he turned heel.

Obviously that could change. Not impossible. But It would require some great booking and it would take time.

And again, it's not something you should do without a guy or two on that level who can replace the Cena merch that all the little kids get mommy and daddy to buy them...

[#1-norm-fan]

And Sting was a "franchise face" in WCW. Come on now.

[James Steele]

Sting didn't actually wrestle for over a year and they made a shitload of money.

[Hanso Amore]

And Sting was a "franchise face" in WCW. Come on now.

No he wasnt. He wasnt even the top face, and it was during WCWs crap days. He wasnt drawing, he had little to no crossover appeal, and you are jsut being selective.

Sting in 1995/early 1996 was a bigger name in wrestling but not a "Franchise Face". He was on the level with a guy like Orton. Is Orton a franchise face?

You are being selective.

[Hanso Amore]

That half that cheers him also spends way more money on him than the half that boos him would if he turned heel.

Obviously that could change. Not impossible. But It would require some great booking and it would take time.

And again, it's not something you should do without a guy or two on that level who can replace the Cena merch that all the little kids get mommy and daddy to buy them...

Thjey can keep him face and make that money of of "Half the Audience" that dwindles every week, or they could turn him heel and potentially shift the trajectory of the company. The Allure of a Cena Heel turn isnt Merchandise sales, it is ratings and buyrates.

[Hanso Amore]

The WWE doesnt make its nut at the Gimmick table.

[Kane Knight]

Wrestling is cyclical.

And this is the mentality that's had us "due for a boom" since 2002.

Yeah. Fuck writing ability. Turn heel, profit!

Hey, we're due for good writing any day now. Wrestling is cyclical, after all.

But seriously, easy answers. Wrestlers are not known for progressive thinking. "Turn him heel" is common because it's traditional logic. The Cena model is new and scary and must be destroyed.

Just like a 3 hour Raw (because it's not the wrestling, it's the time slot), Friday Night Smackdown, getting the "F" out, etc.

And dammit Attitude Era, giddawf mah lern!

[Hanso Amore]

And this is the mentality that's had us "due for a boom" since 2002.



Hey, we're due for good writing any day now. Wrestling is cyclical, after all.

But seriously, easy answers. Wrestlers are not known for progressive thinking. "Turn him heel" is common because it's traditional logic. The Cena model is new and scary and must be destroyed.

Just like a 3 hour Raw (because it's not the wrestling, it's the time slot), Friday Night Smackdown, getting the "F" out, etc.

And dammit Attitude Era, giddawf mah lern!

Yeah, because their stubborn refusal to adapt and try something different isnt the real problem here.

[Heyman]

Different time period. Different demographic. And when Hogan turned there were faces that were already huge. They didn't turn him and then try to get someone to "fill his spot". There were already guys at that level.

To be honest, I don't think Ryback is all that far off from that level. Kids have take a liking to him.

Here is what I would do anyways:

-Have Cena turn heel against The Rock at Wrestlemania. (Cena goes over)
-Cena can have another match with The Rock at Summerslam perhaps (rubber match).

Cena could also get into brief feuds with past legends such as Triple H and Undertaker..........established faces. While this is happening, you can continue to build up guys like Ryback, Sheamus, The Miz, and Randy Orton.

Think back to 2001:

When Austin had his heel run, guys like Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit weren't bona-fide main-event guys yet.......atleast to the extent that guys like The Rock, HHH, and Undertaker were. However - they still feuded with Austin and got over big time.

Perhaps heel Cena could have that same effect on guys like Sheamus and Ryback. Orton is already at that level.

[Kane Knight]

The Allure of a Cena Heel turn isnt Merchandise sales, it is ratings and buyrates.

And that's why WWE would be stupid to go for it.

This might be a nice short-term boost, but they were losing fans before Cena and would have lost more anyway. They opted to turn to a different market and model for sustainability. The result? A sinking ship became a major multimedia franchise.

If you like wrestling being on TV, this is a good chunk of the reason. People blame Cena or Linda's political campaign, but should probably thank God that wrestling is even on the air right now, because this approach to business made it happen.

If you like the product at all, this approach probably saved it. If you don't like the current product, maybe it's time to move on. It's a show with kids as the primary market. Imagine if Pintint whined that My Little Pony didn't have enough attitude or whatever. He'd look like a moron for bitching about a children's show not catering to him.

And so does the wrestling fanbase.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, because their stubborn refusal to adapt and try something different isnt the real problem here.

Your stubborn adherence to specific concepts (because ponies, I suspect), largely is at issue here.

[Heyman]

And guys,

Lets consider this:

-If Austin turned heel after 4 years (1997-2001), and if The Rock turned heel after 4 years (1999-2003), and if Hogan eventually turned heel (1980's-1996)............then don't you think that a guy like John Cena, who isn't anywhere near the face of the aforementioned, should turn heel at some point as well? (2004-2012).

[Hanso Amore]

Your stubborn adherence to specific concepts (because ponies, I suspect), largely is at issue here.

Vintage 30 Year Old Faggot in his Moms Basement

[Hanso Amore]

And that's why WWE would be stupid to go for it.

This might be a nice short-term boost, but they were losing fans before Cena and would have lost more anyway. They opted to turn to a different market and model for sustainability. The result? A sinking ship became a major multimedia franchise.

If you like wrestling being on TV, this is a good chunk of the reason. People blame Cena or Linda's political campaign, but should probably thank God that wrestling is even on the air right now, because this approach to business made it happen.

If you like the product at all, this approach probably saved it. If you don't like the current product, maybe it's time to move on. It's a show with kids as the primary market. Imagine if Pintint whined that My Little Pony didn't have enough attitude or whatever. He'd look like a moron for bitching about a children's show not catering to him.

And so does the wrestling fanbase.

Yes, because the WWE is solely made for Children. This analogy is completely illogical.

They took their product, and made it kid FRIENDLY, not completely marketed at children.

And this "sustainability" is really working well, with all time low ratings.

[Hanso Amore]

And guys,

Lets consider this:

-If Austin turned heel after 4 years (1997-2001), and if The Rock turned heel after 4 years (1999-2003), and if Hogan eventually turned heel (1980's-1996)............then don't you think that a guy like John Cena, who isn't anywhere near the face of the aforementioned, should turn heel at some point as well? (2004-2012).

Those heels turns werent successful or well thought out. They were easy solutions. No way they worked.

/Kane Knight-WWF Fan

[Heyman]

For those worried about Cena turning heel and potentially ailientaing the target demographic (kids) and/or losing merchandising revenue..........I get that. I understand that. However.....

1) Heels can also sell major mechandise....especially in this era. Pretty sure DX, Evolution, Legacy, Hollywood Rock, heel Austin, and the nWo version of Hogan had no problem selling massive merchandise (even comparable to the 'face' versions of themselves).

2) Again - Hogan.....when he turned heel. nWo merchandise. Hypothethetically, lets say Cena turned heel and became a "Heyman guy" or the new leader of The Shield. I'm pretty sure something like that would sell (both short term and long term).

3) it forces the WWE to create new franchise faces......and with Cena on the heel side, it becomes easier for the fans to embrace a new hero.....and new merch revenue from said new guy.

[Hanso Amore]

CM punk is their top heel and is selling merchandise left and right.

for those who say turning Cena heel without other top names doesnt work, well if they keep the status quo they wont be able to make new faces. Its a catch 22.

They can keep riding Cena as is for another few years and they will find themselves without a star to move on to next.

Cena has ALOT of miles on him. ALOT. He has been grinding as the face of the company for 8 plus years. Working Raw and Smackdown and pressers and TV making moves kissing babies etc.

Hes isnt going to be able to do this much longer.

[Pintint]

Yeah but to become booed, Cena would need to do something like murder 8 children...

[#1-norm-fan]

To be honest, I don't think Ryback is all that far off from that level. Kids have take a liking to him.


I'm as big of a Ryback supporter as you're gonna find. If they keep booking him the way they are (Very carefully, not over-exposing him on Raw, etc.) then they could finally have the guy they've been looking for. They better be sure though before they think about turning their money guy.

[Hanso Amore]

Yeah but to become booed, Cena would need to do something like murder 8 children...

Not really.

Have him attack the Rock. Have him say mean things. Have him do jerk things. He will turn quick.

While punk was on a much lower level, he was able to effectively turn in a week.

[Hanso Amore]

I'm as big of a Ryback supporter as you're gonna find. If they keep booking him the way they are (Very carefully, not over-exposing him on Raw, etc.) then they could finally have the guy they've been looking for. They better be sure though before they think about turning their money guy.

I am not at all a Ryback fan or supporter. But if they turned Cena tomorrow and built to a Ryback Cena match at mania, and did a slow burn, even I could see Ryback being a star afterwards.

[Heyman]

Yeah but to become booed, Cena would need to do something like murder 8 children...

Negatory.

All he has to do, is tell the fans to shut up during a match with The Rock.

You know what would be genius?

If the wwe could somehow turn Cena heel, but still have him be loved by kids somehow.

Think about it. Right now - Cena is technically a face, but most adults can't stand the guy's current character......whereas kids love him.

What if the WWE were somehow able to keep that (I.e. kids loving him but adults hating him), but have Cena technically be a heel?

Remember back in 1997 when Bret Hart was loved in Canada but was heel in the States? Maybe the WWE can find a way to do that?

Maybe after Wrestlemania, after Cena defeats The Rock in a hypothetical match, have Cena come out and thank his fans...........the kids. During said promo however, Cena says that as much as he loves and appreciates the kids for their constant support, he's sick and tired of everyone else hating on him.......and blindly cheering on Dwayne. Cena then says he's had enough. He still loves the kids as they've stuck with him through thick and thin, but everyone else can go 'F' themselves.

With the above scenario, perhaps it would make Cena and even more polarizing character. Merch sales stay up since kids still would love him, and it would also create more of a rivalry/buzz amongst the kids/adults in the arenas.

[#1-norm-fan]

No he wasnt. He wasnt even the top face, and it was during WCWs crap days. He wasnt drawing, he had little to no crossover appeal, and you are jsut being selective.

Sting in 1995/early 1996 was a bigger name in wrestling but not a "Franchise Face". He was on the level with a guy like Orton. Is Orton a franchise face?

You are being selective.

Who the fuck was the top face if it wasn't Sting??? lol How old are you? Do you remember WCW during that time? He WAS WCW. lol How the fuck am I being selective?! I'd say shifting things to help your point about Cena is being pretty blatantly selective.

[#1-norm-fan]

He was the top face in the company before Hogan got there and you're saying they didn't have a top guy when they turned Hogan heel? He WAS without Hogan. Clearly giving Sting a mega-heel did not put them in a similar situation to if Cena turned heel now.

[Hanso Amore]

Obviously you cant even understand your own posts. Yes, I watched WCW. I watched Sting in JCP.

You call him a TOP FACE then in prior posts he is their "FRANCHISE FACE". Which he wasnt, until he went to the crow gimmick.

Make up your mind.

I am not saying he isnt a TOP FACE. Im saying he wasnt THE MAN. Like I said Earlier, Sting prior to the NWO feud was more akin to Randy Orton than John Cena.

[Hanso Amore]

Being a TOP FACE is no indication of success. Lex Luger was also a TOP FACE in WCW and he was never at a level to build around, and his best success came opposite Hogan who elevated him.

[Hanso Amore]

He was the top face in the company before Hogan got there and you're saying they didn't have a top guy when they turned Hogan heel? He WAS without Hogan. Clearly giving Sting a mega-heel did not put them in a similar situation to if Cena turned heel now.

He was a top face before Hogan, and during Hogans arrival he became an afterthought and was not the focus of the company for two years. He was no more THE GUY than Luger or Savage and they all fell beneath Hulk.

[#1-norm-fan]

You call him a TOP FACE then in prior posts he is their "FRANCHISE FACE". Which he wasnt, until he went to the crow gimmick.

Make up your mind.

lol. Jesus Christ. He was both. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[Hanso Amore]

Turning Cena Heel will get other faces to the next level. He could make Sheamus a star.

[Hanso Amore]

lol. Jesus Christ. He was both. They aren't mutually exclusive.

No shit sherlock. And Im saying he wasnt one of them.

[#1-norm-fan]

He was a top face before Hogan, and during Hogans arrival he became an afterthought and was not the focus of the company for two years. He was no more THE GUY than Luger or Savage and they all fell beneath Hulk.

If there was someone who could have claimed to be the top face in the company for years before Cena came along then that would be a clear reason why turning Cena heel would be fine. As you would have a guy who had proven that he could take over that role.

There isn't. So again, your point that Hogan's turn would be comparable to Cena's turn because there wasn't a guy who could take over that spot and sell merchandise then either doesn't work...

[#1-norm-fan]

Turning Cena Heel will get other faces to the next level. He could make Sheamus a star.

He could. Assuming they BOOKED IT PROPERLY. And even then, it would take a while to even things out financially.

[#1-norm-fan]

You know how else they could make more money? Not turning Cena heel and booking him and the guys he faces and their storylines interesting enough to get adults into his character while not alienating the kids.

But that's not as easy as "HEEL TURN! PROBLEM SOLVED!"

[#1-norm-fan]

And it's not just merchandise that would suffer. A guy like Ryback would need some time to develop before he could replace what Cena does as far as PR with Make-a-Wish and interviews and the like.

[Hanso Amore]

If there was someone who could have claimed to be the top face in the company for years before Cena came along then that would be a clear reason why turning Cena heel would be fine. As you would have a guy who had proven that he could take over that role.

There isn't. So again, your point that Hogan's turn would be comparable to Cena's turn because there wasn't a guy who could take over that spot and sell merchandise then either doesn't work...

Cena has been the top face for 8+ years. There is no one on the roster from before him, so it is apples and oranges on that front. You have to bank on the 2nd tier of Faces, which is my point in comparison.

[Hanso Amore]

You know how else they could make more money? Not turning Cena heel and booking him and the guys he faces and their storylines interesting enough to get adults into his character while not alienating the kids.

But that's not as easy as "HEEL TURN! PROBLEM SOLVED!"

Oh yeah, because "OH JUST DO THINGS BETTER" is a much different stance.

8 years of bland character. How does that get booked into something better without a drastic move like a heel turn?

Know what that would take? To draw people BACK to Cena? A Top Heel that could make even the IWC cheer cena or want him to go over. What Heel is doing that?

I guess you could say damned if you do, damned if you dont. But the fact is that as much as I hate it, Cena is the key to the Company turning it around. And I just do see him bringing up ratings wuality by staying as a face and somehow being "different".

[Hanso Amore]

People got sick of Hogan. They tuned him out and turned him off. Cena has reached that same spot.

[Ruien]

How long was Hogan a face before he went heel? Serious question.


The different with Hogan and Cena is that the children were turning into or were already teenages when Hogan made his turn. This allowed his target audience to still buy into the character he was going for. It also allowed his t-shirts and whatever else the NWO and Hollywood Hogan sold to sell with a high demand.

[Hanso Amore]

How long was Hogan a face before he went heel? Serious question.


The different with Hogan and Cena is that the children were turning into or were already teenages when Hogan made his turn. This allowed his target audience to still buy into the character he was going for. It also allowed his t-shirts and whatever else the NWO and Hollywood Hogan sold to sell with a high demand.

Hogan wqas a face for about 12 years. Across two companies, with several periods of extended absence.

4 PPVs a year and very little television time compared to today.

And to be fair, around 8 years, in 1992 is when he started to really waver in fan support.

[Tom Guycott]

8 years of bland character. How does that get booked into something better without a drastic move like a heel turn?



Operative part should be "drastic move", and not specifically the heel turn itself, which is what the IWC obsesses over.

Part of why everyone is dogging him is the over-the-top, overcoming all odds, SuperCena who no-sells floor finishers from half the Nexus to jump up and beat a 10 count at 9. Cena was getting better with his stuff with Punk. The happy-go-lucky jokester was making way for him having to buckle down and be serious and intense and step up against a guy who could actually beat him and he couldn't afford to look past. Could have benefited from a change in ring attire and music about then, and still remained face, and it would have been a breath of fresh air. Instead, after that feud was over, he's back to the same old thing he was before feuding with Punk.

A heel turn is "a" way to go, but doesn't neccessarily have to be "the" way. They can still keep their baby-kissing cash cow, just tweak him a bit.

[Kane Knight]

Vintage 30 Year Old Faggot in his Moms Basement

Look, if you have no actual logical argument, just say so.

Yes, because the WWE is solely made for Children. This analogy is completely illogical.

They took their product, and made it kid FRIENDLY, not completely marketed at children.

And this "sustainability" is really working well, with all time low ratings.

You're getting really hung up on the details here. It's not just kid friendly, kids are the primary market focus right now. That's not actually all that different from any other children's show. Throwing in words like "solely" is just an artificial way to distinguish why you whining about your favourite show aimed at kids is okay, but Pintint whining about his would still be stupid.

Also, do you really want to talk about doing well? Have you looked at their financial reports? Do you think ratings are really an in-depth monitor of WWE's empire?

Come on, now.

You know how else they could make more money? Not turning Cena heel and booking him and the guys he faces and their storylines interesting enough to get adults into his character while not alienating the kids.

But that's not as easy as "HEEL TURN! PROBLEM SOLVED!"

The best thing is, Hanso has already qualified that good writing is necessary for this to work, when the problem in the first place has been a lack of good writing.

So basically, the key to answering the problem is writing, and the heel turn is completely superfluous, but TURN HIM HEEL anyway.

And I mean, heel turns are usually done to "freshen up" a character. Cena's problem was never really that he was stale so much as hes been poorly written. Frequently.

So it's not only an easy answer, it's an easy answer to the wrong problem.

[Heyman]

Getting back on topic.......

Do you guys like the idea of stacking RAW with the highest drawing wrestlers in the company ( and having an official draft every 14-18 months or so while strictly adhering to an actual roster split......like they did a few years ago). By doing this....

1) The WWE has atleast one show that is its "best possible show" and can possibly attract new fans.

2) Smackdown can take these characters that are bland and re-invent them. Similar to what the WWE were forced to do back in 1996.

[Tom Guycott]

Nope. RAW stacks way too much as it is. If anything, they should stack Smackdown.

They should go back to the brand split and actually do what it was supposed to do. They shouldn't worry so much about which show is the "A" show or "B" show. That's part of what the problem is. They go all "OH, THIS GUY IS REALLY GETTING HUGE ON SMACKDOWN... WE NEED HIM ON RAW!!!!" Keep his ass on SD. Make people watch that show. Use the time that this guy would be taking up on RAW and use it for someone else being unused.

[Curd]

WOW, that's some pretty intense discussion! Going back to Heyman's idea to stack RAW over Smackdown!, I feel that morale would decline among those drafted to Smackdown! because there would no longer be the synergy of the A-Listers to boost the ratings or to help less popular talent get over. Smackdown! would become like NXT. Maybe WWE could stack RAW as an experiment and then reshuffle the rosters again if ratings do not increase by more than the Smackdown! ratings decrease.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Cena's fans are getting older every day. He's going to have to do something or they will lose interest. He might have to turn heel if his fans start going into the ages where they like the heels better than the faces.

At what age did you all switch from liking the heels more than the faces? I can't remember when exactly it was for me. Sort of think it might have been Owen Hart and Mr. Bob Backlund.

[Saving Grace]

Honestly Heyman, the brand split thing has run its course i believe. I for one could care less about who gets drafted from Raw to Smackdown and Smackdown to RAW anymore. If anything half of the guys end up on both shows each week.

Honestly Raw should go back to 2 hours, they need to honestly just end the brand split, unify the WHC and WWE Title again and make one World Champion and bring back like one more mid-card title and focus on building its mid card guys to start filling the main event roles they are eventually going to have to overtake.

[#1-norm-fan]

Oh yeah, because "OH JUST DO THINGS BETTER" is a much different stance.

Yeah. It is. lol.

There are writers out there that aren't mentally retarded. WWE just hasn't found them.

(Alright, that may have been a little extreme, but the point is a heel turn is just an unnecessarily drastic change to a problem that can be solved without intentionally alienating your core audience.)

[#1-norm-fan]

Cena's fans are getting older every day. He's going to have to do something or they will lose interest. He might have to turn heel if his fans start going into the ages where they like the heels better than the faces.

At what age did you all switch from liking the heels more than the faces? I can't remember when exactly it was for me. Sort of think it might have been Owen Hart and Mr. Bob Backlund.

Sesame Street has been popular for decades. It's original fans are well into their 30s/40s now. The human race has this habit of pumping out more and more children as time goes by to where there's always people of every age and no demographic ever "dies out".

[#1-norm-fan]

Getting back on topic.......

Do you guys like the idea of stacking RAW with the highest drawing wrestlers in the company ( and having an official draft every 14-18 months or so while strictly adhering to an actual roster split......like they did a few years ago). By doing this...

As far as this goes, I don't mind the idea. Smackdown is not gonna dominate the ratings or anything. Why not use it to try to build some guys up and make an intriguing wrestling show that stands on it's own? You can have your big time Raw stars appear as a "special attraction" at will. Just give the show it's own identity though. Promote it as the future of WWE while not completely ignoring the guys who draw.

[Saving Grace]

I agree with #1-WWF-Fan. Smackdown is desperately lacking its own identity and needs to be built around the stars of tomorrow with current well known mid card talents and the occasional special attraction from RAW from some of the main event guys. I think honestly they could capitalize on Smackdown being the television brand to showcase their NXT talent instead of trying to shop a network for NXT by itself. WWE NXT doesn't need its own television show IMO. Either put it on WWE.com or YouTube. Or have a segment each week showcasing what they believe is the next breakout NXT star to move to the main roster. Call it "Up and Coming" or something like that and let them wrestle against a good midcard talent like Truth, Kofi, Ryder, Santino or someone.

[Kane Knight]

Sesame Street has been popular for decades. It's original fans are well into their 30s/40s now. The human race has this habit of pumping out more and more children as time goes by to where there's always people of every age and no demographic ever "dies out".

but you see, wrestling is cyclical, so it has to do what it did before. Sure, that wasn't an age thing so much as a failure to keep a demographic going, but....Ummm...Ponies?

There is a chance WWE's going to go more adult again at some point, by the way. They just need some sort of real incentive. With their current model, they're making more money than they did with bigger ratings, so they don't need them. Buyrates are up (overall), which means even with fewer viewers more people are watching the paid product.

The "mature" era died out for reasons other than the fanbase getting too old, by the ay, so yeah. No demographic gets too old.

[Mr. Nerfect]

John Cena turning heel would create a lot of interest in the product, and probably give the WWE a temporary spike, but everything the "keep Cena face" party is saying is completely true. Right now, there is no real babyface to challenge the regime of a heel Cena. Sheamus and Ryback are really the only guys. It's not a long-term solution.

Plus, the longer Cena stays face, the more impact an eventual heel turn will have. The new Superman is coming out soon, so being a stoic, never-wavering babyface might actually be cool soon. Pulling the trigger right now would blow too early.

That being said, I am totally for the brand split making a full return. Yes, they only have it now for house shows, but breaking the brand-split hasn't really boosted SmackDown's ratings any. Keeping rosters separate would at least give some top talent a break, allow more characters time to develop and keep some guys creatively separated for future matches.

Start off with all talent that have two Wellness strikes against their name and make them SmackDown exclusive. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio, R-Truth, William Regal and Evan Bourne would already give SmackDown a roster with various talents. Superstars involved in the World Heavyweight Title picture would also become SmackDown exclusive -- so throw Big Show, Dolph Ziggler and Sheamus on that roster. Sin Cara could benefit from the taped environment of SmackDown and from continuing his interactions with Rey Mysterio, so there's a babyface team for the show. Alberto Del Rio has always been more entertaining on SmackDown than RAW. He and Ricardo would add some spice to the show, and that would allow Ricardo to put on a mask and wrestle under his alter-ego. Del Rio's storylines with Rosa Mendes would put Rosa on SmackDown, and that would mean Epico & Primo would be on that show, too, perhaps working under Del Rio. They would be a nice heel foil for Mysterio & Sin Cara. The Usos would also be SmackDown exclusive to keep them away from Roman Reigns and his stuff with The Shield, which is a main storyline, so should be featured on RAW.

So, just with that, you've actually got a pretty good roster going already, and you're leaving enough talent for the three hour RAWs.

[James Steele]

Noid, do you not see the potentially huge problem in having all your 2-strike guys on one show?

[Kane Knight]

As far as this goes, I don't mind the idea. Smackdown is not gonna dominate the ratings or anything. Why not use it to try to build some guys up and make an intriguing wrestling show that stands on it's own? You can have your big time Raw stars appear as a "special attraction" at will. Just give the show it's own identity though. Promote it as the future of WWE while not completely ignoring the guys who draw.

I don't know. I think this might hurt Smackdown.

Since Smackdown is huge with latino viewers, I think they should stack Smackdown with all the minorities who really aren't going to go anywhere in the main program anyway.

[Pintint]

Ezekiel Jackson Vs Hunico for Smackdown top feud!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Noid, do you not see the potentially huge problem in having all your 2-strike guys on one show?

You'd keep them out of the main spotlight on RAW. Maybe having them all on one show is a bit extreme.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ezekiel Jackson Vs Hunico for Smackdown top feud!

Del Rio vs. Hunico could be an amazing feud on SmackDown, to be honest.

[Kane Knight]

Ezekiel Jackson Vs Hunico for Smackdown top feud!

Book it!