In 2013, how important is a guy's finisher?

[Maluco]

Was going to make this thread solely about Randy Orton. He is a decent wrestler, but I think he is saved to some degree from being much less than he is because of the RKO. How much of a role does the RKO play in his character/persona? Does it cover for a slight lack of personality?

The importance of that finisher becoming well known, so much so, that the fans are just waiting for it to pop in your matches seems to be a big deal. An example of someone who benefitted from that big finisher he could hit out of nowhere was Steve Austin. How big a role did the stunner play in his rise to stardom?

What about those guys who changed their finisher throughout the years, who never really settled on one move? I know Chris Jericho has had some cool finishers throughout his career, but he never had that big impact, one hit move until the Codebreaker. Was it too late by then to solidify it as a classic finisher? Do you think he was hurt in any way by not having that big move at his peak? Or was the Liontamer perfectly fine? What about submission moves against impact finishers, any preferences?


Would be interested to hear what people think about this and maybe any confessions about guys you may have liked or disliked in large part due to their finishers and signature moves...

[CSL]

a recognizable finish should be a big part of building a match for any babyface with half a clue, especially a finish that's over

personally prefer things that can be done "out of nowhere" or on anybody, perfect example being you mentioning Orton/the RKO

[Bad News Gertner]

Except in ROH where you have to hit your finisher ten times to get a pin due to "fighting spirit"

[The Condor]

Stunner, RockBottom/People's Elbow, Pedigree, Tombstone, Diamond Cutter, figure Four- each great wrestler and main eventer has a finisher that geeks the crowd and fits into the wrestlers personality. It still matters.

[Rollermacka]

I think signature moves are importaint but I also like the idea of getting that win "out of nowhere". Kinda like how RVD doesn't always get the win with the Five Star all the time anymore in TNA. He usually does, but sometimes he'll get the win with the split legged Moonsault, a 450 off the top, sometimes getting the win with something less expected like an elaborite rolling cradle or blackslide while doing the splits (probibly to save some of the wear and tear on his body from doing the Five Star for soo many years) In big match situations, a big finish is expected but if it's RAW, I don't mind seeing Ryback finish somebody with a big Powerbomb or the Meat Hook Closeline as opposed to the Shellshock everytime

[Maluco]

Stunner, RockBottom/People's Elbow, Pedigree, Tombstone, Diamond Cutter, figure Four- each great wrestler and main eventer has a finisher that geeks the crowd and fits into the wrestlers personality. It still matters.

I agree with you, and was with you up until Figure Four, Flair has said himself that he doesn't remember that last time he beat anybody with it. How important has that ben in the later part of his career? Could someone get over with the figure four nowadays given the high pace of matches and the amount of run-ins?

Except in ROH where you have to hit your finisher ten times to get a pin due to "fighting spirit"

Hate this too, really irritating and really poor psychology. I think some of these guys blandness comes from the fact that their characters are so poorly defined and seperated from the rest, and having a dangerous finisher that actually works plays into that.

a recognizable finish should be a big part of building a match for any babyface with half a clue, especially a finish that's over

personally prefer things that can be done "out of nowhere" or on anybody, perfect example being you mentioning Orton/the RKO

So how important would you say a move like that is in getting over? Where do you think Orton would be if his finisher was a dragon sleeper or something?

[dronepool]

They're very important to use, but surprise finishes are good here and there when the time is right.

[CSL]

So how important would you say a move like that is in getting over? Where do you think Orton would be if his finisher was a dragon sleeper or something?

for a guy like Orton, not so much given he's a bonafide superstar/has "it" and would have gotten to this position no matter what. For a guy like say DDP, hugely important.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Cesaro needs to ditch the knee-tralizer, and use one of his far more impressive moves as a finisher.

[Cool King]

A finisher that comes out of nowhere is always good, with the best examples being the Stone Cold Stunner and RKO. Other good ones are JBL's Clothesline From Hell, Billy Gunn's Fameasser and even a generic Big Boot and Superkick.

Submission finishers can also have that "out of nowhere" feeling too, but only if it's not been attempted during the match and the opponent is really weak. I've found myself being "on the edge of my seat" in the past with Jericho's Walls Of Jericho, Benoit's Crippler Crossface and even as most recent as Del Rio's Cross Armbreaker.

I feel that if a submission finisher is attempted a few times during a match, it loses it's "unpredictability" during that match. If it's been attempted four times for example, it just makes the fifth time less surprising and it leaves me thinking "He's going to tap this time" and more times than not, he does.

Also, I'm not that big of a fan of taunts before finishers either. I know it's not a new thing and it's been happening for years, but it feels like these days, it's pretty much always done in the WWE. 95% of the time, a wrestler will do something to indicate that they're about to perform their finisher. Some are good and they work well with both the finisher and the wrestler's character, but again, I feel that sometimes it just loses the "unpredictability" of the finisher. Some can even be quite annoying at times with the worst and most recent one being during Edge's face run before he retired. Having him shout along with the crowd "Spear! Spear! Spear!...." was just annoying to me. :-\

[Ruien]

Despise the setup for a finisher. Something quick that takes 3 seconds is fine though.

[Maluco]

Another reason I made the thread was thinking about these newer guys, and yeah, I see the taunts before some weird finisher that the crowd does not even realise is a finisher.

I imagine it must be very difficult for so many new guys to come in at once and try to make themselves different. Not a fan of Swagger having the Ankle Lock for example, he didn't need anything else to make comparisons to Kurt (even if newer fans may not be familiar with him)

There are guys slowly moving up the card and I am not sure they have found a truly great finisher yet. A guy like Dolph for example...is he really going to have the Zig Zag or whatever for his whole career, it's not exactly iconic.

Is there room to be original anymore, or is it a case of finding something obscure that you can make your own? A lot of todays current drops/slams are very similar and hard to tel apart.

[Curd]

A finisher that comes out of nowhere is always good, with the best examples being the Stone Cold Stunner and RKO. Other good ones are JBL's Clothesline From Hell, Billy Gunn's Fameasser and even a generic Big Boot and Superkick.

Submission finishers can also have that "out of nowhere" feeling too, but only if it's not been attempted during the match and the opponent is really weak. I've found myself being "on the edge of my seat" in the past with Jericho's Walls Of Jericho, Benoit's Crippler Crossface and even as most recent as Del Rio's Cross Armbreaker.

I feel that if a submission finisher is attempted a few times during a match, it loses it's "unpredictability" during that match. If it's been attempted four times for example, it just makes the fifth time less surprising and it leaves me thinking "He's going to tap this time" and more times than not, he does.

Also, I'm not that big of a fan of taunts before finishers either. I know it's not a new thing and it's been happening for years, but it feels like these days, it's pretty much always done in the WWE. 95% of the time, a wrestler will do something to indicate that they're about to perform their finisher. Some are good and they work well with both the finisher and the wrestler's character, but again, I feel that sometimes it just loses the "unpredictability" of the finisher. Some can even be quite annoying at times with the worst and most recent one being during Edge's face run before he retired. Having him shout along with the crowd "Spear! Spear! Spear!...." was just annoying to me. :-\

QFT, and I found that WCW inverted the concept by having the finishers countered or kicked out of when the wrestler using it gestured beforehand, especially if also yelling during the gesture. The announcers eventually lampshaded this phenomenon by saying, "So-and-so telegraphed the move!"

[Shisen Kopf]

When the Bushwhackers did their battering ram it you knew it was serious business. Finishers are almost the most important thing in pro rasslin. After work-rate of course.

[Keith]

Finishers still matter, and they always will (especially when you get to the top guys).

The HBK/Undertaker matches at WrestleMania became classics in large part due to the fact that they hit each other with their finishers and both would still kick out numerous times (false finishes).

[whiteyford]

a recognizable finish should be a big part of building a match for any babyface with half a clue, especially a finish that's over

personally prefer things that can be done "out of nowhere" or on anybody, perfect example being you mentioning Orton/the RKO

He needs to 'steal' DDPs schtick of hitting the cutter from random places, mid jackhammer/chokeslam etc.

[ddpBANG]

He needs to 'steal' DDPs schtick of hitting the cutter from random places, mid jackhammer/chokeslam etc.
http://img178.echo.cx/img178/3193/wm2151qb.gif

[Cool King]

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5562/ssko4.gif

[whiteyford]

Love shit like that, same as catching them mid leap, just think he should do that kinda thing more often, on PPV at least.

[whiteyford]

I want to say he did one mid spear too, that might be a lie though.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I think Orton's done that a bunch of times hasn't he? If he did it too often though it'd start to become expected of him and lose its impact.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2_W2kjimv8E

That's a few, some reversals more impressive than others, think there's probably more too. Dunno how to embed from my phone.

[Cool King]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2_W2kjimv8E

That's a few, some reversals more impressive than others, think there's probably more too. Dunno how to embed from my phone.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2_W2kjimv8E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Cool King]

SICK REVERSALS.

[DAMN iNATOR]

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5562/ssko4.gif

http://i49.tinypic.com/qmz2fp.jpg

That one was pretty sick too.

[Keith]

Watching that, it still boggles the mind why Randy Orton isn't an even bigger star.

[Rollermacka]

Watching that, it still boggles the mind why Randy Orton isn't an even bigger star.

.... He's been more or less a main eventer since 2002 and multi time champion (World, IC, Tag and WWE), how much bigger of a star can he get?

[Keith]

.... He's been more or less a main eventer since 2002 and multi time champion (World, IC, Tag and WWE), how much bigger of a star can he get?

John Cena is a bigger star than he is. Randy Orton isn't at that level where you can say he's as big a star as Cena, and he should be.

[whiteyford]

Realistically nobody is really on Cenas level.

[Keith]

Watching that, it still boggles the mind why Randy Orton isn't an even bigger star.

So my question still stands, still boggles my mind.

Orton has achieved a lot. He's won many titles. He's been a headliner. He's been pushed as a face, he's been pushed as a heel. He seems to be over with the fans regardless of him being face or heel. He's got good wrestling ability.

I still can't understand why he's not an even bigger star.

[whiteyford]

He was never pushed as 'the man' imo, and he doesn't seem like the guy to push for that backstage.

[XL]

So my question still stands, still boggles my mind.

Orton has achieved a lot. He's won many titles. He's been a headliner. He's been pushed as a face, he's been pushed as a heel. He seems to be over with the fans regardless of him being face or heel. He's got good wrestling ability.

I still can't understand why he's not an even bigger star.

He got "squashed" by HHH in the Main Event of WrestleMania.

[DAMN iNATOR]

He got "squashed" by HHH in the Main Event of WrestleMania.

That was WM XXV, though...at WM XXIV the year before, he beat Triple H, even though it was a triple threat also featuring Cena, and "technically" Orton "didn't beat" Triple H because he pinned Cena not Triple H.

[XL]

There you go then, HHH is holding Orton down.

[loopydate]

Also, he's unreliable. He has two Wellness strikes, impulse-control problems, and a shoulder that only occasionally wants to be attached to the rest of him. He's over, but WWE is smart to not have him be The Guy.

[Graveler]

To answer the question, its the only move that matters