Okay, so Zigglers title run....

[Shadrick]

Yay or nay? Pros and cons?


Discuss.

[Mr. Pierre]

The reign itself was poor because of the concussion, but the moments he won and lost it were awesome. The MITB cash in and reaction was amazing, and the double turn tonight was surprising and great. Del Rio is a much better heel and I'm really looking forward to Dolph as a face. Some really shocking, but great booking. Cool moment tonight

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

At the end of it everybody was chanting Ziggler's name. Just hope he didn't get further concussed, but it looks like he did.

[James Steele]

He sells like HBK did against Hogan every night, so it's hard to tell with him.

[Bad News Gertner]

Gonna be interesting how AJ plays into all of this.

[James Steele]

She will turn babyface by revealing that Big E Langston is proof that the black man penis legend is a myth.

[James Steele]

#Gorm

[Shadrick]

Believe in the Gorm.

[Tommy Gunn]

The match felt like a face turn for Ziggles and heel turn for Del Rio, the match was good, even though I find Del Rio bland as hell.

[Big Vic]

Hope AJ stays heel with Big E

[Nark Order]

I don't care about how the match went. Ziggler losing is unacceptable. I don't care if it was the greatest match of all time.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Yeah. Used to care about ADR, but now he’s just another vanilla good guy. :| :-\

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I'd say he's more caramel.

[Big Vic]

ADR is pretty much going to be playing a heel now.

[Shadrick]

A buddy of mine figures that Rio will be a heel that thinks he's a face. Similar to Backlund apparently lol

[Lock Jaw]

Once again, they are going to use a guy winning the WORLD TITLE and then losing it to get him more over than he was before. Instead of making him over before he wins the belt in the first place.

[Emperor Smeat]

Going with "Meh."

It wasn't IC/US title reign type horrible but at the same time having the concussion derailed any sort of momentum or plans the WWE had for him.

Assuming a double turn did happen, the WWE managed to solve two problems at once with Del Rio's face turn being really flat and realizing its easier to turn Ziggler face than trying to get the crowd to stop cheering him.

[Volare]

Here's the trickey part, if WWE doesn't fuck with the personas anymore and just lets them keep being who they are right now.

[Kane Knight]

Once again, they are going to use a guy winning the WORLD TITLE and then losing it to get him more over than he was before. Instead of making him over before he wins the belt in the first place.

Hence why the writers have been calling this the "throw shit at a wall and see what sticks" generation.

The fact that the name is kind of unwieldy is just another strike against WWE creative.

[#1-norm-fan]

Once again, they are going to use a guy winning the WORLD TITLE and then losing it to get him more over than he was before. Instead of making him over before he wins the belt in the first place.

I'm not COMPLETELY against the idea of having MITB in general but this seems to be how they actually want to use it. They go out of their way to actually de-push a guy before giving them the title. Even with WWE's writers, I can't imagine what the thought process is here.

[Ultra Mantis]

Going to go out on a limb and say I enjoyed it more than Curtis Axel's IC title reign.

[311]

Meh.

We'll see what happens tonight/if the double switch worked...sad business with the concussion, though he may come out of it in a better place than he was.

[#1-norm-fan]

So Dolph now has 2 World Heavyweight Title reigns.

He is 3-6 in matches as champion with 0 successful defenses.

Probably the worst champion ever kayfabe-wise.

[Innovator]

If he becomes a big face star and wins the title back at Summerslam, then this reign served its purpose.

[Theo Dious]

So Dolph now has 2 World Heavyweight Title reigns.

He is 3-6 in matches as champion with 0 successful defenses.

Probably the worst champion ever kayfabe-wise.

He's still better than Mysterio.

[#1-norm-fan]

Mysterio won the title in actual matches and defended it successfully.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm glad that Alberto Del Rio is seemingly returning to his heel roots. It makes sense, since he was just a good guy for no reason. It also gives me hope for the Del Rio vs. Hunico feud I've always wanted to see. Dolph Ziggler as a face will be interesting, but I think people will get behind him because he shows fire and a passion. I hope he doesn't stuck sucking up the fans' asses or anything like that.

[Hanso Amore]

I'm glad that Alberto Del Rio is seemingly returning to his heel roots. It makes sense, since he was just a good guy for no reason. It also gives me hope for the Del Rio vs. Hunico feud I've always wanted to see. Dolph Ziggler as a face will be interesting, but I think people will get behind him because he shows fire and a passion. I hope he doesn't stuck sucking up the fans' asses or anything like that.

Wait Hunico what?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd love to see Hunico as a babyface with humble beginnings take issue with Del Rio, who comes from money and looks down on people like him. The idea wouldn't be to make Hunico an instant main eventer or anything like that, but I feel that he is more immediately ready than Sin Cara to play second-to-top Hispanic babyface.

Hunico would start off the aggressor in the feud, looking to make a name for himself, but Del Rio and Ricardo Rodriguez would turn his life upside down. If another thing I want to happen happens, then AJ Lee and Big E. Langston may even turn on Dolph Ziggler and go to the corner of the guy who can pay them better. AJ gives Del Rio lots of evil ways to mess with people. Del Rio pays Rosa Mendes to seduce Hunico and then embarrass him on live television, etc. Del Rio and Hunico have a match, and Del Rio wins (because he's at that higher level, obviously), but the story told allows Hunico to look like a scrapper.

In a tag team match against Del Rio & Langston, Camacho walks out on Hunico, which allows the heels to win. Camacho then gets in the ring and attacks Hunico himself, but looks conflicted. Camacho says that he loves Hunico like a brother -- he stops pretending to be Mexican, but rather talks about how Hunico made him feel welcome when he went to Mexico -- but he needs to look after himself and his family, and that means working for Del Rio. Hunico is not really moved by Camacho's disloyalty, and says that he's going to hurt him for being such a sell-out. Hunico does beat Camacho, then beats Langston and finally earns the right to face Del Rio again in a Steel Cage Match or something. If Hunico is catching on, you can put him over after a big spot where he maybe dives from the top of the cage onto Langston and Camacho, or you could have him dive back in on Del Rio and pin him. But you could also go with Del Rio winning and Hunico remaining a mid-card face act.

[Hanso Amore]

You have to be fucking kidding me? God you are horrible.

[Hanso Amore]

99 Percent of the WWE audience has forgotten Hunico exists and you "Dream" about him feuding with the champion?

You go overboard alot but this one is the best.

[Lock Jaw]

It is not the worst idea for a feud (don't know about Noid's execution though), after ADR loses the belt.

Hunico seems like a genuinely likeable dude who could do well as a face... and since turning ADR evil again, they lack a Hispanic face to get the Latino crowd behind. Sin Cara doesn't count because he has no face.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The audience forgetting Hunico exists is probably a good thing, since his latest gimmick was way too stereotyped to be any good.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He's amazing in the ring. Every so often he does something that I have never seen before. He's an okay talker. He's not the best, but he's capable of stringing a sentence together. He may be a good talker but not a good promo -- as in someone who can promote their match, character, storyline, etc. Those are the guys who just need a little bit of guidance, though. He's also an older guy that has been wrestling for a long time, so he might be seen as quite a reliable fella.

It doesn't need to headline WrestleMania, but a rich Mexican aristocrat vs. humble Hispanic babyface would be a compelling enough storyline.

[Hanso Amore]

No it wouldnt.

[Big Vic]

So Dolph now has 2 World Heavyweight Title reigns.

He is 3-6 in matches as champion with 0 successful defenses.

Probably the worst champion ever kayfabe-wise.How is he 3-6 with 0 successful defenses?

[Shisen Kopf]

worst champ in the history of WWF/E has to be RVD, what did that last all of 2 weeks. Plus he's on the pot!

[Shisen Kopf]

Also, Kane's one day title reign in 1998 was pretty lame

[Hanso Amore]

How is he 3-6 with 0 successful defenses?

Winning non title matches.

[Big Vic]

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Payback '13 (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/payback-3913-17116.html)
Jun 16th 2013</td><td width="22%">Alberto Del Rio (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/alberto-del-rio-2883.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler (c)</td><td>
</td><td>World Heavyweight Championship (WWE)
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown! Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-taping-17110.html)
Jun 11th 2013</td><td width="22%">Alberto Del Rio (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/alberto-del-rio-2883.html) & Chris Jericho (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/chris-jericho-296.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Big E. Langston (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/big-e-langston-6446.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-17015.html)
May 6th 2013</td><td width="22%">Alberto Del Rio (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/alberto-del-rio-2883.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (DQ)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown! Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-taping-17001.html)
Apr 30th 2013</td><td width="22%">Alberto Del Rio (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/alberto-del-rio-2883.html) & Ricardo Rodriguez (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ricardo-rodriguez-5647.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Jack Swagger (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/jack-swagger-3410.html) & Zeb Colter (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/zeb-colter-545.html), Big E. Langston (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/big-e-langston-6446.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>triple-threat tag</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-16998.html)
Apr 29th 2013</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Kofi Kingston (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/kofi-kingston-3295.html)</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE Monday Night Raw Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-taping-16967.html)
Apr 22nd 2013</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Chris Jericho (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/chris-jericho-296.html)</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-16948.html)
Apr 15th 2013</td><td width="22%">Jack Swagger (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/jack-swagger-3410.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown! Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-taping-16939.html)
Apr 9th 2013</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Chris Jericho (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/chris-jericho-296.html)</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-16936.html)
Apr 8th 2013</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Alberto Del Rio (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/alberto-del-rio-2883.html) (c)</td><td>
</td><td>World Heavyweight Championship (WWE)</td></tr></tbody></table>Umm?

Edit: ok nevermind I see he's actually 4-6, but 2 of the matches were tag.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah.

That added to him being awarded the title and losing it the night... gotta be the shittiest champ ever.

[#1-norm-fan]

Umm?

Edit: ok nevermind I see he's actually 4-6, but 2 of the matches were tag.

I was just counting his matches as champion. So he was 3-5 there and 0-1 in his first reign.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think The Shield might actually have lost more than they've won now since winning titles, too. WWE likes to give people titles and then make them look weaker while they have it. It's bizarre. Makes no sense.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

It's called winning when you have to. Now they are playing smart and only caring about the titles instead of winning every meaningless 6-man tag.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's called winning when you have to. Now they are playing smart and only caring about the titles instead of winning every meaningless 6-man tag.

I do hate it when champions lose as often as many have been lately, but I have to agree with this. The Shield throwing matches to a DQ is actually pretty great heel strategy.

[#1-norm-fan]

It's called winning when you have to. Now they are playing smart and only caring about the titles instead of winning every meaningless 6-man tag.

Yeah, the fact that it happens so often with others makes me feel like you're giving WWE's booking way too much credit with that theory.

[#1-norm-fan]

In their case though, it's not just DQs. They're actually losing via pinfall/submission as much as they did their entire existence before they won titles.

[Mr. Nerfect]

To Daniel Bryan, who is the hottest thing in wrestling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Seth Rollins lost in a singles match, but he's a tag team guy so that's not the end of the world. The Shield did lose on SmackDown recently, but that was a six-man tag, and they aren't the Six-Man Tag Team Champions.

[#1-norm-fan]

... I never said they lost the titles or lost specifically in situations that fit the titles they have.

I said they are weaker. You're basically saying "They lost in a 6 man tag but they only need to be strong in regular tag team situations and Ambrose in singles situations so anything else is fine." lol

[#1-norm-fan]

Just like Barrett got weaker when he was champ. Just like Cesaro got weaker when he was champ...

[Mr. Nerfect]

... I never said they lost the titles or lost specifically in situations that fit the titles they have.

I said they are weaker. You're basically saying "They lost in a 6 man tag but they only need to be strong in regular tag team situations and Ambrose in singles situations so anything else is fine." lol

Ugh. Why do you always do this? I never said you did say that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Not anything else is fine. The situations so far have been fine, though. It has made other guys look great.

[#1-norm-fan]

lol. You're trying to make excuses for why it's okay just to disagree. I said they're losing more and looking weaker now. That's a fact. You think it's fine because it makes others look good? Okay. Fine. That doesn't counter what I said. They're losing more and looking weaker.

[#1-norm-fan]

I actually didn't like The Sheild (except for Ambrose) until deeper in their run when they were winning so much there was just this need to see them get what was coming to them. It added to their matches. They're losing enough now to where that feeling has kinda worn off and they're getting quite generic.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Haven't they lost like one match? Lol.

[#1-norm-fan]

Just looked it up. They've lost 8 tv matches since winning titles.

[Mr. Nerfect]

By pinfall/submission?

[#1-norm-fan]

4 by pinfall/submission.

I think they only lost 1 or 2 in the 7 months prior.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I didn't think they had lost that much. They seem to carry themselves like winners to me.

[#1-norm-fan]

It's mainly Seth "weak link" Rollins. lol

My point is that winning a title seems to be followed by booking to lose more. Which is a ridiculous way of going about things. It seems like that's when you want your guys to look like a champion by being difficult to beat as opposed to making you question why a guy like Wade Barrett has a title considering he jobs weekly. A title should signify your stature as a force.

[James Steele]

It isn't 1974 anymore, #1-wwf-hater.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah. They should just do away with having matches completely. It's 2013. Winning and losing matches doesn't mean anything.

P.S. I love the WWF

[James Steele]

You sure? I'm pretty sure that you just come here to bitch.

[#1-norm-fan]

Says the guy who makes it a point to come in and bitch about me constantly.

You're failing at your Team Gorm audition. You're doing it wrong.

[James Steele]

It's not like they are being made to look like Sunday Night Heat enhancement talent. The Shield still looks strong as fuck and they are helping build the tag team division.

[James Steele]

Says the guy who makes it a point to come in and bitch about me constantly.

Well, the world would be a better place if you didn't exist. You should join Team Gorm.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well, the world would be a better place if you didn't exist. You should join Team Gorm.

Yours certainly would. Your retarded thoughts on wrestling and the world in general would have less of that pesky reason to deal with.

[James Steele]

It's on reason. It is over-analyzing and whining when they don't follow your armchair booking.

[#1-norm-fan]

Duct tape.

[James Steele]

We do agree on a few things: duct tape doesn't belong in main events, Kaitlyn has nice tits, and Vince McMahon is a genius beyond measure.

[#1-norm-fan]

duct tape doesn't belong in main events.

What about opening matches?

[Lock Jaw]

Duct Tape is a mid carder at best

[James Steele]

I'd love it if Santino decided to use a "Full Metal Cobra" wrapped in duct tape.

[James Steele]

...or if Hornswoggle turned heel and duct taped Khali's knees together while he is standing up.

[Lock Jaw]

...or if Hornswoggle turned heel and duct taped Khali's knees together while he is standing up.

Probably would make 0 difference.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Duct Tape is a mid carder at best

As of today, June 29, 2013, Duct Tape has been terminated from it’s employment with World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE). WWE wishes Duct Tape the best of luck in its future endeavors.

[Ultra Mantis]

Probably would make 0 difference.

Might actually help him to walk, probably should save that to turn Heath Slater face.

The one handyman southern rock band.

[Ruien]

Says the guy who makes it a point to come in and bitch about me constantly.

You're failing at your Team Gorm audition. You're doing it wrong.

No. He actually asked us when we first formed about it but we had to deny him for being a idiot; therefore, he already failed.