7/1/13 Mike Adamles PERSONAL raw thread

[mike adamle]

Punk teams with axel

[mike adamle]

Hot cunt vickie gerro says del rio faces jawn cena

[Corndad]

Well I guess this is the main Raw Thread lol at least there wasn't a recap to start this week.

[mike adamle]

My boy db out now

[Immortal Moose]

lol nice shirt

[mike adamle]

Man does Daniel Bryan look like Rocky Dennis right now or what???

[mike adamle]

Oh nope here comes Rocky Dennis right now

[Emperor Smeat]

Sort of want to order the shirt Bryan has right now.

[Corndad]

Love that new shirt.

[GD]

World Heavyweight Champion versus WWE Champion tonight. Woohoo!

[Heisenberg]

"I'm not hungry, I'm STARVING" Randy Orton everyone

#podcast

[Providence Peep]

This crowd is pretty dead, eh? Where are they tonight?

[ClockShot]

Really want RVD to come out for this.

Chances are low it seems.

[Corndad]

This has to pick up... right?

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Yeah, <a href="https://twitter.com/CMPunk">@CMPunk</a> knows <a href="https://twitter.com/TherealRVD">@TherealRVD</a>'s game plan: get high and hope for the best. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23RAWTonight&amp;src=hash">#RAWTonight</a></p>&mdash; WWE Creative Humor (@WWECreative_ish) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWECreative_ish/statuses/351856476345737216">July 2, 2013</a></blockquote>
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[GD]

I absolutely love it when they build up the heavyweight titles.

[Corndad]

Kinda like them building up the Titles for this match. New concept.

[GD]

Errr...wasn't Lou Thesz a multiple time NWA World Champion?

[Savio]

No you're thinking of Jeff Jarrett

[ClockShot]

Sierra...........Hotel............India...........Echo..........Lima..........Delta...........SHIELD !

[Savio]

Wow shield doesn't even get a promo spot

[Corndad]

Shield getting their win back eh

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I love how every time they hold a good match on SD, it's almost a lock that you'll see it on the next Raw. Almost like WWE is saying "well, that was good...maybe we should put it on a show people actually watch."</font>

[Savio]

Jey Uso is doing pretty well against Kaitlyn

[ClockShot]

Blood?

[Immortal Moose]

Paint

[ClockShot]

Ah.

[Providence Peep]

I have a front row seat for Smackdown in Providence this month. I really hope Teddy Long is there to set up a tag team match. :|

[ClockShot]

Very quiet in here tonight.

[Corndad]

Wonder how the betting line for Jinder is in Vegas for this match lol

[Savio]

That was not a prop guitar?

[Poit]

Ziggler and... Jinder?

[GD]

No you're thinking of Jeff Jarrett

It's interesting that the WWE considers the history of the NWA World title until WCW withdrew their membership from the alliance.

[Providence Peep]

Very quiet in here tonight.

Everyone left when I came.

[ClockShot]

Dolph Ziggler. One Man Army.

[GD]

So the lineage of the World Heavyweight Championship extends to the NWA World title (until the WCW withdrew from the NWA), the WCW World Heavyweight Championship and the World Championship (the name of the belt after the WWF defeated the Alliance at Survivor Series).

[Corndad]

Kinda hyped for a Mark Henry Video Promo #Thingsneverwouldhavesaidyearsago

[ClockShot]

Nice job, A/V department.

[Immortal Moose]

lol

[Poit]

Fandango returns!

[Emperor Smeat]

Cole and Lawler seem like they completely forgot about Fandango when JBL made the "Miss Fandango" joke. JBL makes the same joke every time Summer Rae is there and both reacted to like they've never heard it before.

[#1-norm-fan]

Just turned on the stream... Why is there no commentary?

[dronepool]

I never watched a war games match, but it actually look sorta cool.

[GD]

Wow! Y2J gets a jobber entrance.

[GD]

Wow! Y2J gets a <strike>jobber</strike> WWE app entrance.

[Immortal Moose]

Don't bother making a distinction.

[Corndad]

How did anyone not mention how freakin smokin Summer Rae is. Jesus.

[KIRA]

Its Mark Henrys "I have a dream" speech.

[Immortal Moose]

How did anyone not mention how freakin smokin Summer Rae is. Jesus.

I guess everyone just assumed that it was a commonly held belief.

[Corndad]

PTP's biggest match ever. Doesn't even get an entrance. Yikes.

[Corndad]

THE MAN THEY CALL.... STING

[slik]

STING

[Corndad]

Alicia Fox. The Heel. Wasn't she just a face 2 weeks ago?? This has to be an ongoing joke backstage. Has to be.

[Corndad]

Laylas gonna cost Kaitlyn then fuck Big E live on PPV. Book it.

[Immortal Moose]

Laylas gonna cost Kaitlyn then fuck Big E live on PPV. Book it.

I would rather book Kailtlyn winning then Layla and Kaitlyn fucking.

[Corndad]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>RAW is unpredictable. You never know what will happen next, but you can guarantee this live crowd won't care <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23RAWTonight&amp;src=hash">#RAWTonight</a></p>&mdash; WWE Creative Humor (@WWECreative_ish) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWECreative_ish/statuses/351888706287845376">July 2, 2013</a></blockquote>
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[Bad News Gertner]

Fuck I love me some Damian Sandow on the mic.

[Poit]

Formerly of Lucerne, Switzerland. :lol:

[Poit]

Why is this thread so empty?

[Savio]

That new black diva is fuckin hot

[Corndad]

Wyatts Next Week. Hell Yes.

[Immortal Moose]

Why is this thread so empty?

I don't know, it's been a fairly good RAW so far.

[Heisenberg]

Why is this thread so empty?

I have arrived for the main event, my pubes are not trimmed...but I mowed my lawn mang

[Corndad]

Wow. Ricardo not being there makes such a difference. Damn. Crickets.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Whats with the world title ladder match having all the heels when there is a heel champ?

[Immortal Moose]

The WWE match has all the faces because they are former champs.

[Immortal Moose]

I consider Punk to be a face now.

[Heisenberg]

JBL sounds bored right now, poor guy

[#1-norm-fan]

Whats with the world title ladder match having all the heels when there is a heel champ?

World title match is all heels going for a heel-held title.

WWE title match is all faces going for a face-held title.

It's weird.

[Emperor Smeat]

:lol: Henry toying around with Cena

[Savio]

They are not cashing in right away

[Poit]

Nice, Wyatt Family video to close the show.

[Hanso Amore]

Wait.....doesn't all the wcw champs they showed actually belong as part of the unified wwe title?

[Emperor Smeat]

Think they re-split the lineage again a few years ago or whenever the last time they considered the Big Gold belt as part of the actual old WCW and NWA belts.

[#1-norm-fan]

What was with the lack of turnout for this Raw thread?

[Savio]

People were enamored with my participation in KOTF

[MIZantine Empire]

"Cesaro knows 5 languages and with zeb he is learning Dutch" that was such a good line from JBL.. Also I hated this crowd.. Some of them were trying way too hard to be the post wrestlemania crowd.. It got cringe-worthy for me at times

[Crazy Nick]

I missed this entire show last night, did I miss anything good?

[mike adamle]

Why are all you people in my personal raw thread???

[Mercenary]

JBL sounds bored right now, poor guy

He sounded that way the whole show.

[GD]

I thoroughly enjoyed the build up for the main event. The only thing that bother me was that while visiting the history of the big gold belt, only one champion who held the belt in it's current iteration was showcased - Booker T.

http://wrestling-match.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2558alsh3er.jpg

They could have shown Triple H since he was the first ever World Heavyweight Champion and arguably the most important wrestler to hold the strap and solidify it in the company.


http://celebsview.info/wp-content/uploads/The-Undertaker.jpg


Undertaker was somewhat responsible for maintaining the prestige and bringing it back to the main event scene.


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/503/353/004_display_image.jpg?1289783491


And Edge who held the strap for a record seven times.

[Big Vic]

I hope Vickie is removed from Raw, this stupid McMahon storyline makes no sense with her having power.

[James Steele]

It feels like they are trying to get sympathy for Vickie, and I don't know if that is possible short of her breaking down crying in the ring and start talking to Eddie. I hope that sort of thing wouldn't happen.

[Ultra Mantis]

I skimmed the results and saw that Ryback lost via ref stoppage because he got destroyed by The Miz. Was this as hilarious / awful as it sounds?

[GD]

I skimmed the results and saw that Ryback lost via ref stoppage because he got destroyed by The Miz. Was this as hilarious / awful as it sounds?

Ryback asked to stop the match. It was a "WTF" moment because for such a long period of time, Ryback has been pushed as a monster and now he's acting like a crybaby. It's quite a change in his personality.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/n25eusgs-g4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

[Savio]

I wish ADR went over Cena, put over the WHC a bit.

[GD]

I second that. They have been "demoting" the big gold belt for a while now. It doesn't help that the WWE Champion gets a pinfall victory over the World Heavyweight Champion.

[Corndad]

Shoulda had either Dolph or Henry actually interfere and end in No DQ. Both matches furthered and the World Belt isn't "Demoted"

[#1-norm-fan]

As much as the World Title has been made to look like shit over recent times, just the fact that ADR was wrestling John Cena was a plus for the title. He shouldn't have gone over though. Let's not make the WWE champion look weaker in the process.

[James Steele]

John Cena could job to Zack Ryder and be fine coming out of it. WWE has a ridiculous Hogan-level paranoia about him looking weak. The only guy to really beat Cena clean multiple times since 2005 is CM Punk. Look what it did for him.

[#1-norm-fan]

lol. The guy loses enough. They aren't paranoid about him looking weak. He's the top guy in the company. It makes sense for him to actually look strong. Having a guy hold a title while losing left and right just to make the rest of your roster look good is not only retarded but if he were losing left and right, at a certain point it wouldn't be putting anyone over. Regardless of how big of a star he is, it doesn't make anyone look good to go over a guy who loses on a regular basis.

[James Steele]

Missing the point. John Cena losing to ADR with some shenanigans wouldn't hurt Cena and would help ADR and the WHC. Hell, Ziggler beating Cena in the cage match in January would have done ungodly good for Ziggler and not really hurt Cena at all (especially considering he won the Rumble, beat Rock for the title, etc.)

[James Steele]

Cena is on a completely different level than anybody in the company. The only one close to him is CM Punk...and how did they achieve that? In order to get people remotely close to his level, they have to beat him. Besides, whenever Cena has lost clean - it hasn't effected him. He comes out and does his whole spiel on never giving up and we start the thing over again. Remember, the "worst year of his life" wasn't all that bad and helped build Punk up to the level he is now.

Yes, having a Wade Barrett or Cody Rhodes lose often after winning the IC or US title is stupid. They are still trying to be built up. Cena is built up more than Fort Knox and the Great Wall of China. Losing occasionally doesn't hurt him and helps the other guy incredibly.

[#1-norm-fan]

Dolph Ziggler beat John Cena in the main event of a PPV in December and then was stagnant until he cashed in to beat Del Rio 3 months later. Like I said, Cena loses enough. To the point where most people over the age of 13 find his character to be shit. It doesn't do much long term anymore for people to beat him. Especially on a random Raw.

[James Steele]

Dolph Ziggler beat John Cena in the main event of a PPV in December and then was stagnant until he cashed in to beat Del Rio 3 months later. Like I said, Cena loses enough. It doesn't do much long term. Especially on a random Raw.

He beat Cena because a woman knocked over Cena while he was on a ladder. Ziggler beating Cena clean inside a steel cage would have given Ziggler a MOMENT and huge momentum going into Mania season and his eventual cash-in. Aren't you always bitching about how they don't build up guys who win the briefcase or titles?

Cena doesn't lose enough, and he doesn't lose clean enough. It is almost always some shenanigans or some over the top convoluted finish that gives him an excuse (clusterfuck interference, being thrown into searchlights, tackled through sets, etc.)

[#1-norm-fan]

Because he's the top guy in the company and should be booked like it. Wrestling is better without parity. Someone beating Cena should be a big fucking deal. Not just a common occurrence.

[James Steele]

He's only made 1 guy. The man has been the top star for 8 years and has only made 1 guy. That is the bigger issue especially considering him losing has been shown to not hurt him. He has never been hurt by losing clean. I'm not saying he needs to lose every month, but at this point he doesn't need to be built up anymore. He needs to build up other guys.

[#1-norm-fan]

Ziggler beating clean in a cage match would have been fine as long as they didn't follow it up with the 3 month span they ended up going with Ziggler.

His loses should be few and far between though.

[James Steele]

I agree, but more than once every 3 years. Who has beaten Cena cleanly more than once and been established as a long term main eventer after feuding with Cena? The only guy I can name is CM Punk and that helped push him into the stratosphere.

[James Steele]

Cena did establish Edge, but I can't recall Edge actually beating Cena clean. That fit with Edge's character though. So, I aplogize - CENA has made 2 GUYS in 8 years on top.

[#1-norm-fan]

It depends on if they guy/situation is good enough for the win to catapult him to something else and isn't just gonna be a waste. Del Rio beating Cena on Raw isn't one of those moments. It would just be the commentators trying to act like beating Cena is a big deal like they've done a shitload of times. It wouldn't matter in 2 weeks.

[James Steele]

So, they should never try and push anybody? Hell, there is no guarantee anybody will be "good enough" to be catapulted to that level.

I know. The Rock losing to The Hurricane really hurt WWE and The Rock. What a waste.

Isn't that always what people bitch about? WWE not going all the way/all-in with guys? They push and de-push and rotate in "flavor of the month" pushes that doesn't really help anybody? ADR beating Cena to help re-establish the WHC and following it up with great booking would be damn effective in helping Del Rio, Ziggler, the WHC, and no harm would come to Cena because he is basically GOD in the WWE world.

[#1-norm-fan]

It wouldn't matter in 2 weeks.

[James Steele]

For fuck's sake, Ziggler just beating Cena clean in one of those matches would have done wonders for him. Instead, he looked like a bitch when he fought the big dogs. You don't build guys like that. FFS, even Austin showed weakness and failure during his run and he was a bigger draw than Cena ever thought about being.

[#1-norm-fan]

Sweet T beat Cena twice on Raw.

[James Steele]

Sweet T beat Cena twice on Raw.

...and the booking following that is what doomed Tensai (along with a lame gimmick). You're whole reasoning is "WWE can't book worth a shit, so they should just keep riding Cena until he's dead and then be fucked like they were when Hogan left WWF in the early 90s or when Brock/Austin/Rock all left within a 2 year period.

[#1-norm-fan]

For fuck's sake, Ziggler just beating Cena clean in one of those matches would have done wonders for him. Instead, he looked like a bitch when he fought the big dogs. You don't build guys like that. FFS, even Austin showed weakness and failure during his run and he was a bigger draw than Cena ever thought about being.

1) Why you're still trying to argue about Ziggler beating Cena clean when I just said a few posts above that it would have been good as long as they followed up with him, I don't know. (Though a competitive loss to show he's pretty close to Cena's level would have been good, too.)

2) Austin lost WAY less than Cena. Beating Austin in any situation was a much bigger deal in big part because of it. It's not even close.

[James Steele]

1) Why you're still trying to argue about Ziggler beating Cena clean when I just said a few posts above that it would have been good as long as they followed up with him, I don't know. (Though a competitive loss to show he's pretty close to Cena's level would have been good, too.)

2) Austin lost WAY less than Cena. Beating Austin in any situation was a much bigger deal because of it. It's not even close.


Austin's run on top is half the length of Cena's. Of course he loss less just because of simple math.

Austin went 4 years: 97-99, late 2000-mid 2002.

Cena had been on top for 8 years.

[James Steele]

Also, my whole point is that even with as much as Cena loses (which isn't all that much), it's never clean and doesn't accomplish anything. Edge is the only guy to ever actually get consistent heat working against Cena and gaining anything from winning via shenanigans.

CM Punk beats him clean and made to look like a legit threat: it's guaranteed to be the hottest match and best match on the card.

Brock Lesnar looks like a threat to Cena and the match becomes a huge draw and for the first time in ages the entire crowd gets behind a Cena comeback.

The Rock/John Cena matches are a big deal because he is a legit threat to Cena.

If nobody ever looks like a threat to Cena, then what is the fucking point of paying $45.99 to see the match? Either Cena wins or he loses via some wacky finish that doesn't really accomplish anything other than cheapen the finish to a PPV I just dropped money on.

[#1-norm-fan]

And Cena's probably got more losses clean or otherwise in any 6 month span or so than Austin had in his entire run on top.

In fact, I'm not sure Austin lost cleanly period in that run.

[James Steele]

Please show me this 6 month span where he jobbed out clean all the time. Austin also had other ESTABLISHED LEGITIMATE THREATS to face off against. Cena has none other than Punk or part-time guys.

Stone Cold also seemed to be "chasing" the belt a hell of a lot more than Cena has. The money is always in the chase for the title.

[#1-norm-fan]

And Cena's probably got more losses clean or otherwise in any 6 month span or so than Austin had in his entire run on top.

Please show me this 6 month span where he jobbed out clean all the time. Austin also had other ESTABLISHED LEGITIMATE THREATS to face off against. Cena has none other than Punk or part-time guys.

[ron the dial]

lol you missed the point

[#1-norm-fan]

Austin had more legitimate threats because character development wasn't shit like it is now. If you wanna make someone look like a threat, "have them beat Cena" is a fine start... until everyone starts doing it and then it means shit.

[James Steele]

Austin lost to some shenanigans too. Kane beating him in 1st blood match, the magic teleporting briefcase, Kane/Undertaker three-way where they couldn't pin each other, ol' fashioned screw jobs, etc. He didn't have the title from fall of 1998-WrestleMania XV.

[ron the dial]

Austin had more legitimate threats because character development wasn't shit like it is now. If you wanna make someone look like a threat, "have them beat Cena" is a fine start... until everyone starts doing it and then it means shit.
your attitude sucks big time buddy

[#1-norm-fan]

Or you can actually put in the effort of building them up over time to the point where the Cena confrontation is intriguing.

[James Steele]

Austin had more legitimate threats because character development was shit like it is now. If you wanna make someone look like a threat, "have them beat Cena" is a fine start... until everyone starts doing it and then it means shit.

...but it still has to start with beating an established guy. You still basically sound like you think they shouldn't put anybody over Cena just because they might not book it right. That's just pure apathetic bitchiness.

[James Steele]

Or you can actually put in the effort of building them up over time to the point where the Cena confrontation is intriguing.

Well, no shit Sherlock, but it defeats the whole purpose of building a guy up to face Cena (see: Ziggler and countless others) just to have them be made to be his bitch.

[#1-norm-fan]

Austin lost to some shenanigans too. Kane beating him in 1st blood match, the magic teleporting briefcase, Kane/Undertaker three-way where they couldn't pin each other, ol' fashioned screw jobs, etc. He didn't have the title from fall of 1998-WrestleMania XV.

Yes. And Cena loses to shenanigans. Just much more often. Guys were somehow able to look like threats to him just fine.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well, no shit Sherlock, but it defeats the whole purpose of building a guy up to face Cena (see: Ziggler and countless others) just to have them be made to be his bitch.

Have them win when they get there! Or have them lose in a competitive match to signify they're at least a step away from being capable of taking him down! Again, you're stuck on this Ziggler thing after I already said Ziggler beating him would have been a fine start to something.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm saying his losses should be meaningful and therefore not just done to the point where beating Cena is commonplace. Ziggler in the cage would have been a big deal assuming they could keep the momentum going. Del Rio on a soon to be forgotten episode of Raw, not so much. Save it for a moment where the commentators don't have to ACT like it's actually a big deal that Cena just got beat.

[ron the dial]

"soon to be forgotten"

so what does it matter either way?

[James Steele]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1634555-john-cena-reliving-every-ppv-clean-loss-since-winning-his-first-wwe-title

Please see if this is missing any of his clean PPV losses since WrestleMania 21:



WM24: Orton (c) def. Cena vs HHH (WWE Title)
Backlash 08: Orton (c) def. JBL, Cena, and HHH (WWE Title)
NoC 2008: HHH (c) def. John Cena (WWE Title)
GAB 2008: JBL def. John Cena (Non-Title NYC Parking Lot Brawl)

Finish: In a planned spot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_professional_wrestling_terms#Spot), JBL set fire to a car with Cena inside. Cena destroyed a car with JBL in it with a forklift. Cena was about to hit the FU but JBL countered and pushed Cena into a window, which cut Cena's arm, allowing JBL to win the match.


SummerSlam 2008: Batista def. John Cena (Non Title)
TLC 2009: Sheamus def. Cena (c) (WWE Title Tables Match)

I'd argue this wasn't really all that clean. It looked like Cena fell and crashed through the table and not put through a table by Sheamus.


WM 28: The Rock def. John Cena (Non Title)

Hell, I forget that MITB 2011 was a clusterfuck finish with Cena being protected. He lost because he was the good guy who refused to let Laurintis interfere and he got GTS'd for it.

[James Steele]

2008 was a shitty year for Cena. Way worse than 2012.

[James Steele]

I'm saying his losses should be meaningful and therefore not just done to the point where beating Cena is commonplace. Ziggler in the cage would have been a big deal assuming they could keep the momentum going. Del Rio on a soon to be forgotten episode of Raw, not so much. Save it for a moment where the commentators don't have to ACT like it's actually a big deal that Cena just got beat.

They hyped up all night both titles and their illustrious history. They could have acknowledged how the WHC has appeared weaker (they kinda do by saying the WWE Title is the most precious title in the world). Have Del Rio talk about that. Have him say he'll go out and prove that he is the superior champion with the superior title. It'd mean something.

[James Steele]

You bitch about how the titles look weak, how they don't book consistently when building guys up, and when someone pitches ideas that would fix that you bitch about how it wouldn't matter anyway

[#1-norm-fan]

When you actually pitch an idea that would fix it, we can discuss that.

[#1-norm-fan]

Like... say... writing intriguing angles around the title and having the champion look strong to the point where beating him and winning it is a huge deal. I know that's probably more than you can handle since it contains more than the simplistic "beat Cena" that means less and less but it might actually be more useful. Just a thought.

[James Steele]

I'm not saying job Cena out like Len Wagner. I'm just saying when they do actually build a guy up to the point where he faces Cena (see: Ziggler, Ryback, Wade Barrett, etc.) they should actually pull the trigger and put them over instead of just having them win by hijinx or just flat out job out to Cena. Of course good booking is important, but you are completely missing the point like the dense willfully-ignorant shithead you are.

[Bad News Gertner]

Heath Slater should be facing Cena at MITB

[James Steele]

How can you be so fucking dumb to think that I'm saying "Job Cena out to ___ on RAW. He'll be a superstar instantly!"?

[Bad News Gertner]

Fuck this whole Ryback shit is awful.

Does anybody remember when Lesnar debuted? People would chant "boring" and "Goldberg" during his matches. He had a match against Test at a ppv people shit all over it. He got over because he kept kicking peoples ass and winning.


That's what needs to be done to establish a top star. Ryback should have just kept mowing through guys for a long time until he reached a point where he could challenge the World Title with the intention of winning.


Or hell, keep him on Smackdown and win their belt, while avoiding Cena/Punk altogether.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm not saying job Cena out like Len Wagner. I'm just saying when they do actually build a guy up to the point where he faces Cena (see: Ziggler, Ryback, Wade Barrett, etc.) they should actually pull the trigger and put them over instead of just having them win by hijinx or just flat out job out to Cena. Of course good booking is important, but you are completely missing the point like the dense willfully-ignorant shithead you are.

Depending on who it is. You started this bitchfest by arguing how Alberto Del Rio should have beaten him on a random episode of Raw. Beating Cena doesn't mean shit if he's losing random matches like that. The Shield got over because they weren't losing and people's anticipation for it was growing to where a loss would have actually been meaningful.

Outside of that, you've kept arguing Dolph Ziggler in the cage at the end of an actual rivalry which I've agreed about 3 times already would have been a fine idea. I'm agreeing with the point and you're blindly keeping it as a point to bitch about. "Willfully-ignorant shithead".

[#1-norm-fan]

Fuck this whole Ryback shit is awful.

Does anybody remember when Lesnar debuted? People would chant "boring" and "Goldberg" during his matches. He had a match against Test at a ppv people shit all over it. He got over because he kept kicking peoples ass and winning.


That's what needs to be done to establish a top star. Ryback should have just kept mowing through guys for a long time until he reached a point where he could challenge the World Title with the intention of winning.


Or hell, keep him on Smackdown and win their belt, while avoiding Cena/Punk altogether.

So you're saying him asking the referee for his match to be stopped was a retarded thing to do?

[Bad News Gertner]

Still "lol" over the fact that Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Orton all couldn't beat the Shield, but the Usos did.

[James Steele]

"Random Raw". Isn't the whole point to make it where every single show is must-see tv?

[Bad News Gertner]

So you're saying him asking the referee for his match to be stopped was a retarded thing to do?

Making a monster look like a bitch is always the correct thing todo

[James Steele]

Still "lol" over the fact that Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Orton all couldn't beat the Shield, but the Usos did.

Don't forget The Undertaker.

[#1-norm-fan]

How can you be so fucking dumb to think that I'm saying "Job Cena out to ___ on RAW. He'll be a superstar instantly!"?

It's not even a start, you tool. Hell, ADR would probably be better served being a bitchy heel about the loss than he would being the latest guy to get a "shocking" win over the champ that's just gonna water the effect of that "accomplishment" down more.

[James Steele]

The Shield had to lose eventually, but they did pick a weird team to do it with.

[Bad News Gertner]

Don't forget The Undertaker.

Undertaker is no match for Jey Uso

[#1-norm-fan]

"Random Raw". Isn't the whole point to make it where every single show is must-see tv?

Sure.

Cena losing randomly is no longer must-see tv though.

[#1-norm-fan]

ADR put up a good fight and he lost to the top guy in the company. That's pretty much what should have happened.

[James Steele]

It's not even a start, you tool. Hell, ADR would probably be better served being a bitchy heel about the loss than he would being the latest guy to get a "shocking" win over the champ that's just gonna water the effect of that "accomplishment" down more.

Making the World Champion look like a bitch rather than an equal to the WWE Champion is a better idea than having Cena lose on RAW? John Cena could lose to Zack Ryder tomorrow and it wouldn't water down the accomplishment. He is on a pedestal like nobody since the Hogan and Bruno eras.

[James Steele]

Sure.

Cena losing randomly is no longer must-see tv though.

So, him just winning as usual is?

[James Steele]

FFS, they already had interference and shit in the match. Would it have really hurt Cena to have ADR grab the jorts to pin him or something? Or would that forever tarnish the accomplishment of beating John Cena too? We have to protect him to the point that half the fanbase hates him. That must be good for business. Buyrates and live gates are up because we've been building up John Cena for 8 years and he still needs to be built up some more by going over people.

[#1-norm-fan]

It would have hurt the effect that beating Cena does for people. The man loses often.

And lol @ Del Rio looking like a bitch. What match were you watching???

[ron the dial]

*grand jack off gestures and cum tosses abound*

[Skippord]

Fuck this whole Ryback shit is awful.

Does anybody remember when Lesnar debuted? People would chant "boring" and "Goldberg" during his matches. He had a match against Test at a ppv people shit all over it. He got over because he kept kicking peoples ass and winning.


That's what needs to be done to establish a top star. Ryback should have just kept mowing through guys for a long time until he reached a point where he could challenge the World Title with the intention of winning.


Or hell, keep him on Smackdown and win their belt, while avoiding Cena/Punk altogether.
that's because Brock Lesnar is awesome and Ryback sucks a fat dick

[James Steele]

I don't see how Cena loses too much already. I've already shown he only has 6 true clean losses in 8 years. That is fucking ridiculous in 2013 especially considering how much WWE is hurting for "new stars" for the better part of those 8 years.

[#1-norm-fan]

You didn't say he should lose cleanly to ADR either...

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm pretty sure he's lost cleanly in televised matches too, by the way. In fact, he lost clean to The Great Khali on free I think. HBK, too. Those are just off the top of my head.

I'm saying losing period though. He does it often. It loses it's luster every time. That's why it should be a carefully thought out thing.

[James Steele]

It is 2013 and they have 5 shows a week. You can't just book all the top guys to be win all the fucking time and expect people to stay interested. There is only so many ways to write "_____ overcomes the odds and wins." or "_____ barely beat upstart ____." or how many other stories that all end the same fucking way.

[James Steele]

I'm pretty sure he's lost cleanly in televised matches too, by the way. In fact, he lost clean to The Great Khali on free I think. HBK, too. Those are just off the top of my head.

I'm saying losing period though. He does it often. It loses it's luster every time. That's why it should be a carefully thought out thing.

You're right. I forgot about those. I still don't know how Cena recovered. His character was basically shit on by those losses.

[#1-norm-fan]

Fucking hell, I haven't mentioned anything about his character suffering.

[#1-norm-fan]

Who the fuck cares what the outcome of matches are when everyone's just losing around the same amount? You have your strong guy(s) who are so tough to beat that it almost instantly catapults you to the top if you can do it, you have your guys near that level, you have your jobbers.

The reason most TV matches are meaningless now is because the outcome doesn't matter. Everyone's jumbled up in a mess where everyone loses roughly the same amount so who cares? A win or a loss doesn't signify your position anymore.

[James Steele]

Why does it even matter. The booking/writing will be shit anyway.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm sure it would be fixed though with the James Steele "pick the winner of each match out of a hat" method to prevent the same stories from being told over and over.

[James Steele]

Yup. That is exactly what I'm saying.

[#1-norm-fan]

I like how this all started with you agreeing with me on points like Ziggler beating Cena being good and Cena's losses needing to be few and far between and then proceeding to try to argue the same points anyway. lol

[#1-norm-fan]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1373407_o.gif

[James Steele]

Glad to see you are still completely missing the point.

[James Steele]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1373407_o.gif

[#1-norm-fan]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1373407_o.gif

[ron the dial]

mike adamle is going to be pissed when he comes back to his personal RAW thread to see this mess!

[#1-norm-fan]

Gonna use that gif as my instant post when James Steele tries to actually discuss something. Many pages of pulling my hair out will be saved.

[James Steele]

Gonna use that gif as my instant post when James Steele tries to actually discuss something. Many pages of pulling my hair out will be saved.

Good for you.

[XL]

Well this is fun.

[James Steele]

How about you contribute something other than smartass remarks? At least #1-wwf-fan will discuss things ad nauseum.

[XL]

I figured discussion moves forward. This is two people saying the same thing for 3 pages.

[Ruien]

CM Punk would not be at the level he is at if Cena let people win 3 ppv matches, in a row, cleanly. ADR does not even need the rub at this point because there are at least 5 other wrestlers more qualified than him to take the step into super stardom.

[mike adamle]

Why are you guys acting like such faggots in MY raw thread? I'm about to make a new thread for you guys.

[James Steele]

I figured discussion moves forward. This is two people saying the same thing for 3 pages.

Nope. Discussion is when 2 or more people talk about a certain topic. Quit being such a snooty cockgobbler.

[mike adamle]

Stop saying the same fucking thing for 3 pages

[mike adamle]

Dolph Ziggler didn't get elevated after his victory over Cena in the Ladder Match because he wasn't ready for it yet.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I do see #1-wwf-fan's point in top guys needing to win matches, but he's really missing what The Amazing James Steele is saying. He's not saying John Cena should lose all the time and make every single guy that comes up and challenges him. But beating Cena somehow would have allowed Del Rio to gloat about his title is the most prestigious in the world. I think Del Rio looked good in that he got somewhat fucked over by Ziggler, but to me it makes no sense why Ziggler would want his championship to look weaker than Del Rio's -- unless he plans to build it up himself when he wins it. I would have liked Ziggler to address that on a WWE.com exclusive or on SmackDown. "What I did to Alberto Del Rio out there was strictly personal. After Money in the Bank, where I become World Heavyweight Champion again, I'm all business."

[Mr. Nerfect]

Thought RAW was really good this week, by the way. I absolutely LOVED how they tried to make the World Heavyweight Title mean something.

[James Steele]

Dolph Ziggler didn't get elevated after his victory over Cena in the Ladder Match because he wasn't ready for it yet.

Ziggler has been ready for over 2 years.