The Final & Definitive Brand Split Discussion Thread

[James Steele]

Do you miss it?
Do you think they should bring it back?
What did you like about the brand split?
What did you hate about the brand split?
How would re-introduce the brand split?
Would you do a draft?
How would you do the draft?
Who would you draft to what brand?

Discuss.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Fucking loved the brand split. I would always make a concerted effort to watch both shows, because there's usually be people I liked on each show. Also each show had such a different feel. SmackDown was usually the workrate show and Raw was the entertainment show.

With the rosters essentially merged, everybody winds up on Raw anyway so SmackDown doesn't feel like must-watch TV. I'll check YouTube for SmackDown matches that sound good, but otherwise it seems skippable. Plus, any matches worth a shit on SmackDown usually just get run on Raw the following week for a larger audience, anyway.

Technically the brand split still exists, as I believe they're running two sets of house shows most weekends. On the roster page Raw and SmackDown have their own separate rosters listed and I think that's what they use for deciding who works on what house show loop, but from what I've read anytime a big Raw guy gets hurt or skips a weekend, they move a big name SmackDown guy over. Even in house shows, Raw will always get treated better.

If they brought it back I'd have a re-draft after WM 30 when the HHH/McMahon storyline culminates (I shudder to imagine it actually going that long, but that is the rumor and I can see it). I'll probably write a more detailed plan later when I get bored.</font>

[glanville6]

I loved the brand split. I really only watched Raw anyway, so to me when Smackdown guys were drafted, I'd see "new" talent.

I would say when they started doing the random drafts, computer generated, it got stupid to me. I liked when McMahon and Flair each had 10 picks. It was compelling to me to think who would be where. Also liked the Bischoff- Heyman draft, pulling balls like the lottery.

I even liked that "Heat" was a RAW show and "Velocity" was a Smackdown show.

I wish they could go back to really doing a good brand split, but it would have to be a few years away, I think.

[whiteyford]

Loved it and really think it should be brought back or at least re-established. Like Vito said both shows had a distinctive feel to them, the fact they didn't cross promote meant that when you got an inter brand match, like 3MW vs Billy & Chuck, it actually gave it a unique feel. Guys getting drafted introduced a host of new feuds/match ups and could be used as a way to push talent by making it a big deal they were drafted.

Raw is always going to be the A show, it's live so that gives it a huge advantage, but allowing talent to develop slowly before getting moved across can only be a benefit. I'd even go as far as to reintroduce an ECW like third brand, something run completely independently but under the WWE umbrella that they could use as a stepping stone to the big leagues or somewhere for talent they've nothing for they don't want to release, NXT is a start and they do seem to try and use it that way but it seems half the time they aren't sure if its 'cannon' or not.

Something else that they could use as PPV fillers too, you have all these events like Survivor Series/Bragging Rights that could be used as Inter Brand competitions at a time when business is usually down. Steal the concept of the BFG series from TNA but with Raw/Smackdown competing, the winning brand getting the right to choose stipulations in the following PPVs main event or get to choose Rumble entry #s. Like XL pointed out in the Tournament thread it would allow stories and feuds to develop as a result and give normally meaningless matches meaning.

[whiteyford]

Feel like Noid now.

[Emperor Smeat]

Loved the idea of a brand split but hated the idea of RAW as the "flagship" meant nothing more than Smackdown not being allowed to upstage RAW either in talent or feud focus for a long period of time. The main exception to that being the Smackdown Six era.

Also loved how it gave the ability for a lot more wrestlers to be pushed or have their time in the spotlight. Smackdown's main belt was a great counter for all the times RAW's main belt was being hogged by a wrestler (ex. Triple H's "Reign of Terror", Cena's constant long reigns, etc).

No need to bring back the brand split since it served its purpose during the early post-Attitude Era and almost every draft ended up hurting Smackdown more than it helped.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, every draft went like this:

1) Draft all the up and coming talent on Smackdown to RAW.
2) Draft back to SD all the former up and coming talent who were drafted from SD last year who were wasted, jobbed out, and basically had most of their interest/push killed on RAW.

[Theo Dious]

Do you miss it?
Yes

Do you think they should bring it back?
Yes

What did you like about the brand split?
Distinct identities for each brand, inter-brand competition, exposure of talent that might not otherwise get said exposure

What did you hate about the brand split?
Jackasses on TPWW bitching about the brand split.

How would re-introduce the brand split?
Pay off the HHH vs Vince feud by each guy taking over a separate show.

Would you do a draft?
Yes

How would you do the draft?
Once a year, in the "pull balls out of the other guy's box" method.

[Curd]

Do you miss it?
Yes

Do you think they should bring it back?
Yes

What did you like about the brand split?
Distinct identities for each brand, inter-brand competition, exposure of talent that might not otherwise get said exposure

What did you hate about the brand split?
Jackasses on TPWW bitching about the brand split.

How would re-introduce the brand split?
Pay off the HHH vs Vince feud by each guy taking over a separate show.

Would you do a draft?
Yes

How would you do the draft?
Once a year, in the "pull balls out of the other guy's box" method.

I share Tedious' sentiments, except I disliked most when good tag teams were spit up by the draft (APA, Dudleys). Bubba Ray's big singles heyday would come in TNA, and Bradshaw became big after Ron Simmons retired, so the tag splits didn't have much purpose other than to thin the tag ranks.

[Curd]

Although it did allow Reverend D-Von to "beat the sin" out of HHH with an assist from Deacon Batista! That was probably D-Von's most significant singles win.

[Lock Jaw]

I like how when the split was around, everyone was wishing for a unified roster. Now that we have a unified roster, people want the split back.

[Curd]

I like how when the split was around, everyone was wishing for a unified roster. Now that we have a unified roster, people want the split back.

To break the monotony every time we have a stretch of either or.

[glanville6]

The not so smart mark in me wants to think they did the unification of rosters so when they do it again it will be a fresher concept again. Kind of unify the rosters, see who works well together, and put together two good rosters. Not stack the deck, just put the two best rosters together.

Its really, really pointless to have two heavyweight champions, one of which who appears on both shows. I always liked the idea of each show having a champion.

[Theo Dious]

Its really, really pointless to have two heavyweight champions, one of which who appears on both shows. I always liked the idea of each show having a champion.

Yeah tell that to the one who gets world championship level exposure who wouldn't get it otherwise.

[Theo Dious]

I like how when the split was around, everyone was wishing for a unified roster. Now that we have a unified roster, people want the split back.

My opinions on the subject are entirely consistent.

[Theo Dious]

I share Tedious' sentiments, except I disliked most when good tag teams were spit up by the draft (APA, Dudleys). Bubba Ray's big singles heyday would come in TNA, and Bradshaw became big after Ron Simmons retired, so the tag splits didn't have much purpose other than to thin the tag ranks.

Really though if it weren't for the brand split they'd have broken up those teams anyway. In both cases each team had been around for years and they were looking to go a different route with the guys.

[James Steele]

The brand split was great for the initial few years, but when the roster got pretty thin about 2008/2009 and they had to start doing more crossovers it became pointless.

I loved the whole brand split from 2002-2006. I still love the time they teased Bischoff being replaced by Shane only to have Bischoff keep his job and get his ass kicked by Austin. Speaking of which, looking back, the Austin/Bischoff Co-GM period was better than I remember when I watch old YouTube videos.

Side note: I really hope there is somehow and some way that WWE can give us Punk vs Austin at WrestleMania XXX. The WWE '13 interview gave me goosebumps. It is such a natural and easy feud and Austin has been off of WWE TV long enough for it to actually be a huge deal when he returns.

[James Steele]

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[XL]

I was gonna ask this after the poll about the success of 3 hour Raws, but...

I like the idea of the brand split coming back. It adds an extra layer to the Rumble where you have guys from each brand interact. Bragging Rights has a decent concept when the brand structure was rigid. Any inter-brand matches they'd book for Mania/SummerSlam were always interesting.

One thing I'd like to see them do is separate the divisions between the brands;

RAW
WWE Title
IC
Divas
Tag

SmackDown
WHC
US
Cruiserweight

Or something like that.

Each brand would have to be given equal treatment; no favouring Raw/raping SD of all their talent. Try and make SmackDown "must see".

[Theo Dious]

One thing I'd like to see them do is separate the divisions between the brands;

RAW
WWE Title
IC
Divas
Tag

SmackDown
WHC
US
Cruiserweight

I don't think the title picture was ever as strong as it was during the brand split. With each show having a it's own world, midcard and tag champions plus a specialty championship (Women's on Raw, Cruiser on Smackdown) there was less "which means more" confusion and titles got lost in the shuffle less often.

[Lock Jaw]

I liked when they still had the split, but had the Unified Tag Team Champions deal going on, which meant that the tag champs could appear on both shows. Lead to some pretty great stuff. (Mainly Chris Jericho related)

[XL]

Yeah, I feel like 2 sets of tag belts (and 2 women's for that matter) were overkill. If WWE can't make one tag division interesting, they're gonna struggle with 2.

[James Steele]

They could have the Tag Titles unique to one brand and give the other brand both Women and Cruiserweights. The only issue with a cruiserweight belt is that so many guys look around that 220 mark that I don't know if it'd be necessary. I'd rather they bring back the Hardcore or European Championship.

[parkmania]

Do you miss it?
Yes.

Do you think they should bring it back?
Yes, but not right now - see below

What did you like about the brand split?
It allowed the "rasslers" to develop differently than the "entertainers"

What did you hate about the brand split?
Brand-specific PPVs

How would re-introduce the brand split?
Currently, I'd use the McMahon storyline.

Would you do a draft?
Yes

How would you do the draft?
Like the first one

Discuss

The buyout of WCW meant that there was WAY too much talent to keep showcasing the same guys on both Raw and Smackdown every week, so the brand split was necessary at the time to make use of all these guys that were under contract. These were among the last of the wrestlers who came up through the territories. As time progressed, wrestlers left and/or were released. Also, very few new "top level" talents were developed during this timeframe. As a result, by 2008, WWE started having a small enough roster to where they would start having more and more wrestlers making "special appearances" on the other show.

WWE officially ended the brand split in 2011. They really didn't have much choice if they wanted both shows to feel even remotely similar talent-wise without having only 2-3 main-event-level wrestlers per show.

I'd love for there to be a new brand-split, but I just don't think there's enough guys left who are ready to step up their game and be "the man". WWE has forgotten how to make guys, and when they have an opportunity dropped into their lap - be it planned like Zack Ryder tried to do, or a cosmic convergence like Fandango - they usually don't react properly to build on it.

I've seen the argument about how "Zack Ryder dropped the ball when they gave it to him so he only has himself to blame", but let's face it, two weeks after being Cena's best bro he was being attacked by Kane and then sent off tv for months. And then when he came back, it was a one-shot appearance at a PPV where he got low-blowed by Eve before disappearing again.

Fandango is a bit different in that WWE was trying (sometimes a bit too hard and obvious) to capitalize on his post-Mania popularity only to have him suffer a horribly-timed concussion. But when he DID get back, instead of trying to pick up where they left off with him, Mr. Curtis was dropped back to lower mid-carder status.

People may point to Daniel Bryan as someone that WWE "got it right" with, but step back and look objectively - DB started doing the "Yes!" "No!" thing over a YEAR ago. It was very over, and not something WWE was ready to capitalize on. Instead, they put him in a strange bedfellows tag-team with Kane and turn him into a bit of a joke for a while. It's only through sheer determination and the fact that he's been consistently on TV during this time that he was able to maintain his overness, and now is nuclear hot.


So while I WANT there to be a brand extention where Show A is truly separate from Show B, I don't think this is the time to do it.

[Cool King]

Do you miss it?
Yes

Do you think they should bring it back?
Yes

What did you like about the brand split?
Distinct identities for each brand, inter-brand competition, exposure of talent that might not otherwise get said exposure

What did you hate about the brand split?
Jackasses on TPWW bitching about the brand split.

How would re-introduce the brand split?
Pay off the HHH vs Vince feud by each guy taking over a separate show.

Would you do a draft?
Yes

How would you do the draft?
Once a year, in the "pull balls out of the other guy's box" method.

Pretty much this.

[Cool King]

Also, even though the brand split has been over for a good while now, WWE.com still arranges the superstars into brands on the Superstars page, for some reason.

[James Steele]

I assume like someone else mentioned earlier about they keep the house shows split to make more money on house shows.

[Lock Jaw]

Smackdown does still have a different focus on certain members of the roster. It just happens that these guys also appear on RAW now, and get some RAW-centred feuds on occassion as well.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I miss the brand split, but only in an ideal sense. SmackDown always seemed to get the short end of the stick, and while the wrestling was usually good, it kind of felt like they were handicapped. I can't really get the point of that.

A good thing about the brand split would be the freshness kept on certain matches. I imagine that The Shield and The Wyatt Family would be kept on separate brands. I also imagine that come a Bragging Rights-esque PPV, a Shield vs. Wyatt Family match would be intriguing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I would actually have the split brought back by Vickie Guerrero, who gives Alberto Del Rio a reduced schedule by signing him to an exclusive contract. She also manages to convince AJ Lee and Layla, the new allies, to sign SmackDown-exclusive deals. Since Damien Sandow's briefcase falls into the jurisdiction of Vickie Guerrero, if Cody Rhodes wants a shot at it, he must sign an exclusive contract with SmackDown. Tamina also signs with Vickie, given their friendship, and Kaitlyn also signs because she wants the Divas Championship. So do many of the other female competitors in the WWE.

Vickie also promises opportunities to talent that have never been given much shot, like JTG, Zack Ryder, Curt Hawkins, Epico, Primo & Alex Riley if they all sign exclusive SmackDown deals, where they fill out a lot of the card. Brad Maddox then draws some battle lines and the draft goes from there.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>So yeah, gonna try to go into a bit more detail about how I’d re-implement the brand split. Since we’re doomed to have this Vince/HHH thing go on until Mania, you’d figure they can use that storyline as a way to bring the split back. One of the items the two can debate about once we get past the Royal Rumble is that there should only be one champion

Randy Orton is a heel at this point, having cashed in his MITB and won the WWE title in cheap fashion against Daniel Bryan right after Bryan wins at SummerSlam. Bryan ultimately wins the belt back at Survivor Series, and Orton finishes runner-up in the Rumble. Manages to get into the Elimination Chamber for the World Heavyweight Title and he wins the belt. As a heel, Vince naturally favors him and he feels he should be the face of the company.

Triple H, meanwhile, continues to be a supporter of Daniel Bryan. He did the unthinkable in defeating WWE’s biggest star at SummerSlam, got cheated out of his moment, and had to jump through hoops to get the title back. He’s going into WrestleMania as a fighting champion.

Then there’s a 3rd man in the picture – CM Punk. With his Lesnar/Heyman feud behind him, Punk wins the Rumble. Not a fan of McMahon or Triple H, he still is guaranteed a WrestleMania title match and he is able to work his way in to make it a triple threat.

So yeah, CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton in a triple threat unification match. Fantastic potential there. I’d say Punk gets the win, as I do feel the Rumble winner should go on to win the belt at WM more often than not.

No Cena in a unification match at WM seems far-fetched, but that’s because short of Sting coming in I think this may finally be the year we get Cena vs. Undertaker in what would surely be the main event. I can also still see the planned Rock vs. Brock match happening. Rock and WWE may not be on the best of terms, but with the money potential I see Rock coming back again in 2014. Shitty that a title unification match will be no better than third fiddle on the card, but really WM is more of a spectacle now filled with draw matches. Not a huge deal.

There will also be Triple H taking on a superstar representing Vince for control of WWE. I really feel like Wade Barrett would be an excellent choice provided they actually build him back up over the next several months. I’m wondering if tonight’s segment with Bryan and Barrett could be the start of Barrett being Vince’s go-to guy. No idea. Anyway, I really don’t want to see Triple H wrestling any more, but it’ll happen. And he’ll win here to mercifully end the angle and take control of WWE. Might also finally be the “end” of Vince on WWE TV.

Within the next few weeks, Triple H rolls out his plans for a brand new WWE which includes a strict re-implementation of the brand split and a re-draft of the rosters. Maddox and Vickie get the ax as new GMs are brought in. There are any number of guys you could use as GMs really, so it’s interchangeable, although I’d love to see JBL get a shot as a heel GM on one of the shows.

The one rule with this brand split that is different from when it first happened is that ALL of the champions are able to float between brands. The IC championship is treated like the IC championship used to be treated pre-split, while the US Title becomes more like the European Title. By allowing all champions to float, it allows for additional feud flexibility. I’d also add a provision that once you lose a title, you go to the brand of the person who beat you. So it would be an easy enough way to occasionally make changes to the roster without just having people randomly show up on another show as “the newest signing”.

I’d have the initial draft be much like the real-life brand split. Each GM makes 10 selections and the rest go to a post-show lottery. Cena would surely be the #1 pick overall, probably to Raw because even in a fantasy booking I can’t see how he ever leaves that show for the long-term. The guys drafted on TV will likely all be big names with the lower card names falling to the lottery. Like the first draft, I’d use the split as a way to split up a few teams so guys can get fresh starts (maybe give Drew McIntyre a rejuvenated push on one brand while Slater and Mahal continue on as a comedy duo on the other show). If the Shield haven’t broken up yet by this point, I’d allow Ambrose to break away and do his thing as a solo act. I think Bray Wyatt will be a big enough name to get drafted in the televised portion, but I’d have the rest of the Family end up on the same show as him during the lottery because I don’t ever want them to break up.

Brand interaction is kept to an absolute minimum, only during the Rumble really and maybe also during a MITB match (only would be one since there’s only one title left). So when you do see interbrand competition, it’d feel important. I’d do a draft after WM each year, but I’d eliminate the stupid way they did the draft the last few years. I’d make it like the 2004 draft lottery when only a few people get moved, and it’d be a mix of big names and un-established names to keep things feeling fresh.

Kinda all over the place on this one as I was half asleep while writing it, but whatever.</font>