Bret Hart's book

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

So I searched for a thread about the book and the only one I could find was done by Zeeboe and nobody even really discussed the book and I don't really want to post in a Zeeboe thread, it's too distracting.

Who read it? And who liked it? I enjoyed it thoroughly. It was fucking dark as hell and really sad but probably the most interesting wrestling read I've had. Brutally honest, and the Hart family is even more fucked than I had figured, though not that much more.

Bret is humble and yet into himself a lot at the same time, he's just self assured I guess and a little bitter, but I take him for his word. I'd say the most interesting part of the read was between the beginning of his Hart foundation run up until before the Screwjob because it's all been rehashed so much.

Thoughts?

[Bad News Gertner]

Bret is not remotely humble. That being said, I've stated before the Hart's as just as messed up as the Von Erich's.

[Zeeboe]

Jealous, huh?

[Bad News Gertner]

Naw, my Hogan was 1000x bigger

[Zeeboe]

The ego likes that just my handle alone can outweigh whatever the intended topic was.

[Bad News Gertner]

You're so 2009

[Curd]

Hart is the most self-absorbed there is, the most self-absorbed there was, and the most self-absorbed there ever will be.

[Theo Dious]

Hart is the most self-absorbed there is, the most self-absorbed there was, and the most self-absorbed there ever will be.

Behind Warrior and Hogan he's probably the biggest mark for himself in the history of the business.

[weather vane]

I like Bret Hart but he is the worst when it comes to sucking his own cock. Self absorbed isn't even the words...

[Zeeboe]

You're so 2009

Thank you. Try telling that to these guys who keep randomly name-dropping me.

[Bad News Gertner]

I think I should mentor you

[Curd]

I like Bret Hart but he is the worst when it comes to sucking his own cock. Self absorbed isn't even the words...

Transgender Bret Hart = Bertha Hart = Tons of online porn revenue

[Curd]

Behind Warrior and Hogan he's probably the biggest mark for himself in the history of the business.

That helps explain why Hogan and Hart vs. Warrior and Sting only went five minutes in WCW. None of them except Sting wanted to sell for the others!

[HunterSK]

ON THUNDER..... wasnt that the night warrior was in the mirror and hogan was going nuts.

[Curd]

ON THUNDER..... wasnt that the night warrior was in the mirror and hogan was going nuts.

Good observation about the match being on Thunder. :y:

[scatterbrain28]

A great wrestler but the man bragged about cheating on his wife. At least he said he'd probably go to hell for doing so. The funny part he tried to get her back .

[Bad News Gertner]

Bret Hart isn't even top 10 in the greatest ever.

[HunterSK]

Good observation about the match being on Thunder. :y:

I was aiming more to the fact they wasted it on thunder but apparently it was on Nitro...

[weather vane]

Bret Hart isn't even top 10 in the greatest ever.

Debatable.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The man was certainly proud of his own work in the wrestling ring, and when it came to that world he was certainly arrogant and a big mark for himself, and to be honest I totally would be too. I believe in the rest of his life he was pretty honest and did the best he could. He never bragged about the cheating, he more stated it as a way to deal with being on the road.

[Bad News Gertner]

Debatable.

1. Hogan
2. Piper
3. Rock
4. Austin
5. Flair
6. Rhodes
7. HBK
8. Taker
9. Savage
10. Andre The Giant

[ron the dial]

http://www.tpwwforums.com/image.php?u=13289&dateline=1378100611&type=thumb (http://www.tpwwforums.com/member.php?u=13289)
<input class="inlinemod_checkbox" name="vmessagelist[49087]" id="vmessagelist_49087" value="0" title="" type="checkbox"> Today 06:26 PM
Gertner (http://www.tpwwforums.com/member.php?u=13289)

1. Hogan
2. Piper
3. Rock
4. Austin
5. Flair
6. Rhodes
7. HBK
8. Taker
9. Savage
10. Race

[ron the dial]

i see a discrepancy gertner

[ron the dial]

might as well just put hart in at 10 since it's rotating spot

[Bad News Gertner]

I totally forgot about Andre and I'm not talking to you until you say you're sorry.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bret was a master at making a match seem like a real contest. When you watched his matches you got lost in it and didn't care about "the show" just the drama of the matchn, the ups and downs, the comebacks, the nearfalls, the intensity. There was rarely a Hitman match where I personally wasn't captivated. I'd always love when he'd hit his 5 moves of doom personally, because he only did them when he got on a roll, and the fans knew it was almost time for the sharpshooter.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

and he was right that he woulda out popped Hogan at Summerslam '93. Not because he was the bigger star, and not because he was better or going to be more iconic than Hogan, but because Hogan at that point was losing some steam and Bret was the underdog and a babyface who'd been working his ass off, which I feel like at the time would have been more indentifiable. At that point if you watch ANYTHING, Bret was crazy over. Not to say he was Hogan in his prime over, but at that point, put the two against one another with the new underdog champ against the front runner Hogan, and Bret would have outpopped him.

... and that was the point Bret was trying to make. He always gave Hogan his props as a performer from what I could read. That's what I mean when I say there are bits and pieces of humbleness in the Hitman. He was just fucking pissed that Hogan didn't give him the rub, while Bret was slaving and toiling trying to keep the company afloat.

[Heyman]

It pains me to say it since Bret Hart is a fellow Canadian, and I absolutely LOVED him growing up (tremendous tremendous wrestler.......regardless of what anyone says), but the fact of the matter is that Bret Hart is a very bitter and very petty human being. He simply won't let go of anything. Period.

His continued attacks on Hogan, Triple H, Eric Bischoff, etc., are just flat out childish.

It's too bad that Bret chooses to be this way. I think if Bret really took time to think about his conduct, he'd realize that the only person that he hurts by doing this kind of stuff is himself. He's literally "attracting" negativity into his life by constantly holding ill feelings towards others.

[Heyman]

It pains me to say it since Bret Hart is a fellow Canadian, and I absolutely LOVED him growing up (tremendous tremendous wrestler.......regardless of what anyone says), but the fact of the matter is that Bret Hart is a very bitter and very petty human being. He simply won't let go of anything. Period.

His continued attacks on Hogan, Triple H, Eric Bischoff, etc., are just flat out childish.

It's too bad that Bret chooses to be this way. I think if Bret really took time to think about his conduct, he'd realize that the only person that he hurts by doing this kind of stuff is himself. He's literally "attracting" negativity into his life by constantly holding ill feelings towards others.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Behind Warrior and Hogan he's probably the biggest mark for himself in the history of the business.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l_S65ttCTmw/TgIx2o2IvwI/AAAAAAAAAUo/beNu7uZFtTk/s1600/ric-flair-8.jpg

[Bad News Gertner]

Haha Flair beats Bret in that regard. Good lord.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It pains me to say it since Bret Hart is a fellow Canadian, and I absolutely LOVED him growing up (tremendous tremendous wrestler.......regardless of what anyone says), but the fact of the matter is that Bret Hart is a very bitter and very petty human being. He simply won't let go of anything. Period.

His continued attacks on Hogan, Triple H, Eric Bischoff, etc., are just flat out childish.

It's too bad that Bret chooses to be this way. I think if Bret really took time to think about his conduct, he'd realize that the only person that he hurts by doing this kind of stuff is himself. He's literally "attracting" negativity into his life by constantly holding ill feelings towards others.

Honestly, his arrogance cannot be denied, but everyone just thinks that he's bitter and blah blah blah. Fact is, he just says what he thinks. He thinks Hogan's a douche (which a lot of us do), he thinks HHH is a GOOD wrestler but not a wrestling god and that Bischoff is kind of an idiot. These are all commonly voiced opinions. He doesn't get bent out of shape when he says that stuff, he says it as an opinion. He's a lot like Don Cherry, in that he speaks his mind, whatever he feels in that moment in time. And that has nothing to do with him as a performer anyways.

[Bad News Gertner]

HBK has moved on, and he was AWFUL during his heyday. Cornette has some gems about Shawn in his Timeline 1997 DVD.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bret has moved on as well though. And honestly, you have your brother die due to straight up gross negligence and have a stroke, and honestly watch all of your friends die tragically and not have a bit of an edge to you.

Look, it is what it is. You can say what you like about him, but Bret's done quite well for himself financially (unlike a bunch of guys who are still working to constantly pay off debt) and is not afraid to speak his mind. He's MORE than made up with Shawn, they'll never be besties but they're cool with one another. He's also made up with Vince. But Bret since the beginning has always been like this. He doesn't take it lying down from Vince.

[Theo Dious]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l_S65ttCTmw/TgIx2o2IvwI/AAAAAAAAAUo/beNu7uZFtTk/s1600/ric-flair-8.jpg

I disagree for one reason. On one of the Legends of Wrestling roundtable discussions (forget which one exactly) Flair says point blank "I was never as big a star as Hulk Hogan." Something I doubt Bret or Warrior would ever say so bluntly.

[Theo Dious]

HBK has moved on, and he was AWFUL during his heyday.

More importantly for this discussion, he'll tell you so.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Uh yes Bret would definitely say that.

[Theo Dious]

Bret has moved on as well though.

I really don't see it. Watch the Bret vs Shawn DVD some time. He's seriously holding on to a lot of the "I was totally right" mentality in a lot of ways.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Well that's because he thinks he was right. He's cool with Shawn, he does not hate the guy. He just thinks he was fucking right.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

This isn't about the screwjob and who was right and who was wrong. It's about how the guy feels. He feels he was right and he was wronged and that will never change.

[#1-norm-fan]

If he has changed for the better, he should be able to say now "Refusing to lose in my home country to Shawn Michaels was fucking stupid."

[Bad News Gertner]

Bret is wrong in that regard and sounds foolish.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They were both very wrong. But people seem to forget that Bret was cool losing it anywhere else any time after. But he was stupid to ever think he could just forfeit the title lol

[Lock Jaw]

I took this book out of the library the same time as Jericho's first book. Read Jericho's book first and then lost all desire to read Bret's at the time because I didn't want to get into what I knew would probably be full of negative vibes, after enjoying the positive vibes of Jericho.

[Bad News Gertner]

They were both very wrong. But people seem to forget that Bret was cool losing it anywhere else any time after. But he was stupid to ever think he could just forfeit the title lol

It's the friggen PPV. Can't lose it before because it basically ruins the ppv, cheap finishes in major ppv's blow. It's just ridiculous on Bret's part.

[#1-norm-fan]

HBK was definitely a douchebag. He was wrong for that. That has no bearing on the outcome of the match though. It shouldn't have stopped Bret from doing the job. Not "anywhere else" either. That night. If he came out and admitted it was unprofessional, I'd agree that he's changed.

[Bad News Gertner]

Bret handing the belt over would have killed the company

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's the friggen PPV. Can't lose it before because it basically ruins the ppv, cheap finishes in major ppv's blow. It's just ridiculous on Bret's part.

Oh come the fuck on lollll, they just did a dusty finish at a friggin ppv. Losing on RAW wouldn't have meant a difference.

However, Vince was just plain smart (or lucky), and played up on the controversy beautifully. At the end of the day this is a business and it can be cut throat. It's a shame that it wounded one of my heroes, but I can't fully fault Vince, although let's get serious, he is a dishonest prick.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Though the only thing I don't get is that it didn't hurt Bret's character at all :-S, I mean it was obviously screwy how the finish went down and he didn't lose clean in his home country, he got screwed, so it didn't hurt his brand. I honestly feel like he would have gotten over it LONG before if it wasn't for what happened with Owen. That's the one thing that'll haunt him for the rest of his days. He feels like if he was there he could have stopped it, and he wasn't, and I feel like that's why there will always be a bit of resentment.

[Bad News Gertner]

And people got their money back who ordered it lol

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Well I'm just saying, they're speaking out of both sides of their mouths. Vince and Shawn CLEARLY wanted to bury Bret, that much I believe.

[Bad News Gertner]

Word was that Bischoff was going to announce Bret coming over on that Monday, so there wasn't much choice. It had to be done by the PPV.

[Bad News Gertner]

Plus, they just lost their world champ to the competitor who was destroying them. Kinda had to bury him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They didn't "lose" him, they told him to fuck off lol

[Bad News Gertner]

They couldn't afford him

[#1-norm-fan]

It's not like jobbing and putting a guy over when you leave a company, especially for the competition, is some crazy, unprecedented thing. Paul Heyman wanted to bury Mike Awesome when he left for WCW as ECW champion. And Awesome did the job like a professional.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

and that is his problem how? At the end of the day you can see both sides of the story. Vince had no choice BUT to run the screwjob and it came out great, but come on, of course Bret was going to hold his ground. He'd taken enough of Vince and Shawn's bullshit up until that point.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's not like jobbing and putting a guy over when you leave a company, especially for the competition, is some crazy, unprecedented thing. Paul Heyman wanted to bury Mike Awesome when he left for WCW as ECW champion. And Awesome did the job like a professional.

You cannot fairly compare Awesome's run in ECW to Bret's run in WWF. Bret didn't even want to leave and deserved a decent send off. Apples and Oranges.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I honestly feel like people forget that Vince is a straight up horrible cock of a dude lol.

[Shisen Kopf]

Bret Hart is an all time top ten. I may not be Canadian but I could see the America's Hat from Detroit. I don't blame him for being bitter. Shawn Michaels was being an idiot back then and he was all coked up and acting like a total douchebag. Plus he caught the gay back then but Jesus cured him.

[#1-norm-fan]

I honestly feel like people forget that Vince is a straight up horrible cock of a dude lol.

I acknowledged that HBK was a cock of a dude. Vince could have been as well. Pretty irrelevant though when it comes to just being professional and doing the job on your way out.

HBK has admitted he was an asshole at least. Bret still hasn't admitted that he was a ridiculous mark for himself for refusing to lose a scripted wrestling match in his hometown to someone he personally disliked.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I acknowledged that HBK was a cock of a dude. Vince could have been as well. Pretty irrelevant though when it comes to just being professional and doing the job on your way out.

HBK has admitted he was an asshole at least. Bret still hasn't admitted that he was a ridiculous mark for himself for refusing to lose a scripted wrestling match in his hometown to someone he personally disliked.

Because Bret doesn't think he was wrong. It's really that simple lol. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that Bret just flat out doesn't think he was wrong, and will always be a mark for himself. I honestly see nothing wrong with it... it's just who he is. Wrestling is a business of shitheads, so I just don't see why he has to feel like he was wrong when he honestly just doesn't see it that way, there's not true code of honour to follow... simply a matter of opinion.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

and honestly he's over it, he's cool with Shawn and Vince, he just doesn't feel the need to be like "OMG I'M SO SORRY GUYS"

[Disturbed316]

Thoroughly enjoyed reading his book, especially as Bret was my favourite wrestler growing up, but found his admission of cheating multiple times on his wife pretty fucking disgusting.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Thoroughly enjoyed reading his book, especially as Bret was my favourite wrestler growing up, but found his admission of cheating multiple times on his wife pretty fucking disgusting.

multiple times? More like thousands of times. hahaha

[Bad News Gertner]

Have you seen Bret's ex? Kind of a heffer.

[voncouch]

I read the book last year. Well, read isn't the correct word. More like devoured. I think it's probably the best wrestling autobiography, second to Foley's first book. It was a great read with a level of detail I've never seen attempted, let alone achieved. It's a must read for any fan of Hart or of the business in general.

That being said though, there's no bigger Bret Hart mark than Bret Hart.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'm a pretty big Bret Hart mark B)

[Wehttam]

but your name is dale

[Curd]

I'll give Bret props for including an awesome group caricature of like 50 legends of wrestling spanning the front and back inside covers. I'm not sure if Bret actually drew it, though.

[SNLfunnyguy]

I read the book with tears in my eyes.

[The Rogerer]

Because Bret doesn't think he was wrong. It's really that simple lol. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that Bret just flat out doesn't think he was wrong, and will always be a mark for himself. I honestly see nothing wrong with it... it's just who he is. Wrestling is a business of shitheads, so I just don't see why he has to feel like he was wrong when he honestly just doesn't see it that way, there's not true code of honour to follow... simply a matter of opinion.But he is wrong.

[Heyman]

I read the book last year. Well, read isn't the correct word. More like devoured. I think it's probably the best wrestling autobiography, second to Foley's first book. It was a great read with a level of detail I've never seen attempted, let alone achieved. It's a must read for any fan of Hart or of the business in general.

That being said though, there's no bigger Bret Hart mark than Bret Hart.

I'm willing to bet negro currency that Bret Hart still thinks about the Montreal screwjob every day to this day.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But he is wrong.

Please tell me how he is anymore wrong than Vince or Shawn. Especially since they were both the ones to apologize to him. I don't think any of them were right or wrong personally but Bret is entitled to see it his way.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'm willing to bet negro currency that Bret Hart still thinks about the Montreal screwjob every day to this day.

And so what if he does? I don't understand why he's supposed to not care about something that means something to him. Especially when things happen to constantly remind you of it, and especially when your brother dies and you feel responsible because you weren't around to stop the stunt that killed him.

When traumatic experiences happen to people, they think about it. Bret OBVIOUSLY takes himself and wrestling quite seriously, and what happened in Montreal is something that deeply effected him. I bet there's something that happened to you and everyone here in their life that effects them every day, and if reporters kept asking YOU about a defining moment in your life, you'd probably talk about it.

[Heyman]

if reporters kept asking YOU about a defining moment in your life, you'd probably talk about it.

That's the thing though........more times than not, he chooses to proactively bash other wrestlers over events that happened 10-15 years ago.

His attacks on Triple H, Ric Flair, Hogan, Bischoff, etc., are all proactive in nature. Often times, reporters do not even have to ask him a question.

Yes - Bret was screwed, and he experienced an unbelievable family tragedy, but he does himself no favors by continuously bringing it up and attacking others.

Bret is and was a tremendous wrestler, but he is a highly bitter, petty, and egotistical.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In all fairness, his "shoot" on HHH had nothing to do with what happened 15 years ago. He said he thinks he's a "good" wrestler but not "great" which I think a lot of us (other than James Steele) can agree upon. He brought nothing up about the Montreal screwjob. He just said he doesn't think HHH is on his level, or Shawn's, or D Bry or Mysterio or whom ever else. This is a prevalent opinion amongst HHH's detractors and a matter of taste.

And as far as Flair, Hogan and Bischoff go, he genuinely thinks they are awful. Everything he says about these guys has been said before by many others, it's not like he's bringing this stuff out of the blue. He just says his opinions, he is unfiltered. And he often gets asked about them. I think it's tremendous and I get a big laugh out of it.

However in his book, he isn't one sided in how he berates or defames these guys. He made it clear that Hogan was the reason guys were putting food on the table, he credited Ric Flair for being technically very sound and fast paced (just thought he lacked psychology and was a bit of a dick) and in the book didn't even say too many bad things about Bisch, it's only popped up recently.

There's no doubt Bret is flawed, he is quite egotistical, but he does his utmost best to be objective, but sometimes you just don't like motherfuckers... really that simple.

[Theo Dious]

Please tell me how he is anymore wrong than Vince or Shawn.

Because Vince was doing what was best for his company and Shawn was doing what he was told to support that. Bret did what was best for Bret and his ego.

Especially since they were both the ones to apologize to him. I don't think any of them were right or wrong personally but Bret is entitled to see it his way.

They apologized because they understand the impact it had on him and they've been willing to take the high road. And yeah, he's entitled to see it any way he likes, just as I'm entitled to believe he was a stubborn mark for himself who was the only party in that incident that could have avoided what happened without fucking the WWF.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Because Vince was doing what was best for his company and Shawn was doing what he was told to support that. Bret did what was best for Bret and his ego.



They apologized because they understand the impact it had on him and they've been willing to take the high road. And yeah, he's entitled to see it any way he likes, just as I'm entitled to believe he was a stubborn mark for himself who was the only party in that incident that could have avoided what happened without fucking the WWF.

Keep in mind, Ric Flair who you defended as not a gigantic mark for himself, went to the WWF with the WCW title belt in toe.

You're entitled to see it how you want as well, but keep in mind, Vince also booked himself into that dilemma.

[Bad News Gertner]

Flair hadn't gotten his deposit back. Plus Flair offered to drop the title whenever. Jim Herd is just a retard.

[Bad News Gertner]

I'm willing to bet that Vince and Shawn said sorry first because Bret is a big baby and wouldn't.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lmfao, I don't think Bret even said sorry.

[scatterbrain28]

Bret is a bold guy, and you may not like what he has to say or what he says about certain wrestlers, but it's still his opinion. You don't have to agree with him and for every guy he criticizes, there's plenty of other big names praising them.

[RP]

I Brett porked Miss Elizabeth

[Heyman]

I Brett porked Miss Elizabeth

RP,

I'd like to see you say that to Bret's face. Even in his current condition, if you said that to his face, he'd kick your ass.......to the point where you'd be sucking his dick begging for mercy in less than 15 seconds.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bret is a bold guy, and you may not like what he has to say or what he says about certain wrestlers, but it's still his opinion. You don't have to agree with him and for every guy he criticizes, there's plenty of other big names praising them.

He also gives them credit too. It's not like he's like "this guy is the worst ever" he just has his opinion.
LOL though it is funny how he does think he is the fucking man. But I can relate to that, he's a guy with a lot of pride in his work.

In his book, he's exceptionally hard on himself during the beginning of his career, but when he starts reaching his prime, you see the arrogance seep out. I find him quite enigmatic in that way. Wonder what he'd be like to meet. Could see him being different based on his moods, he seems like an up and down dude, but he honestly does seem like a guy who appreciates his fans.

[Wake Up Call]

I love Bret. By far the guy I grew up admiring the most of any WWF superstar. I read the book awhile ago, and it doesn't really matter what he does outside the ring. I idolized him for what he did in the ring, not what he did outside of it.

[Blonde Moment]

I still believe that if Brett Had a different gimmick at the end of his career he might not be painted as such a bitter whiner. But that is just my opinion.

[Bad News Gertner]

Bret was pretty much the Hitman. Some guys are just what they are.

[Blonde Moment]

Bret was pretty much the Hitman. Some guys are just what they are.
True. But the last image that everyone had of him was that sad, whiny sack of shit heel and I think that stuck with him after.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think people can separate wrestling characters from reality.

[Blonde Moment]

I think people can separate wrestling characters from reality.

If that were the case there would not be so much John Cena hate.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Not the biggest fan of Cena the character (although he can be fucking brilliant)

But I think Cena the man is absolutely hard as nails and a phenomenal athlete.

[Hanso Amore]

That's the thing though........more times than not, he chooses to proactively bash other wrestlers over events that happened 10-15 years ago.

His attacks on Triple H, Ric Flair, Hogan, Bischoff, etc., are all proactive in nature. Often times, reporters do not even have to ask him a question.

Yes - Bret was screwed, and he experienced an unbelievable family tragedy, but he does himself no favors by continuously bringing it up and attacking others.

Bret is and was a tremendous wrestler, but he is a highly bitter, petty, and egotistical.

Exactly this.

Also - If anything most people LIKE Cena the man. Just hate Cena the wrestler. I am just bored of him. Think hes annoying and lame on my TV. But I know Cena the man is a great person and his make a wish shit is epic.

[Hanso Amore]

I dare you to find anyone who cant separate Cena the character from Cena the man

[Bad News Gertner]

Check any smark forum.

[Fignuts]

Just picked this up. Nice to see its a big meaty 600+ pages.

Far cry from Goldusts measly 108 page magazine.