Cynics VS. Skeptics VS. Optimists: The Bet

[Swiss Ultimate]

As we head into Wrestlemania there exist three camps of wrestling fans.

The Optimists believe that the WWE will come through and give Bryan his Wrestlemania moment, potentially defeating Triple H, Orton and Batista all in one night. They also think CM Punk will return at either Chicago's Raw or Wrestlemania.

The Skeptics believe that the WWE was legitimately surprised that the fans didn't like the Rumble and they're scrambling to do SOMETHING with Bryan for Mania, but they're not sure just what. Could be something good, or could be a single non-main event match with Triple H or even Kane.

The Cynics believe that the WWE is actively trying to bury Bryan and that despite his popularity they would rather push Orton VS. Batista on us with absolutely no consideration that the fans don't want to see it at Raw, much less Mania.

So obviously it's time for the more passionate of these groups to put their "money" where their mouths are.

Instead of cash or bitcoin, I suggest we use forms of public humiliation as our chips.

The largest stakes would be to film a public apology on youtube (enforceable by ban).

Small stakes would be changing your signature and avatar to reflect your loser status.

Who is interested? Who is so sure about their Wrestlemania predictions that they will put their pride and reputation ont he line?

WHO AMONG YOU IS MAN ENOUGH?

[Hanso Amore]

Im in.

I think you should change the description to the Cynics to "Based on what we have seen and the history of the WWE, they believe Bryan will get a consolation prize of beating HHH which is a big deal to them, but not what the fans want".

[Hanso Amore]

oH WAIT I guess im confusing skeptics and cynics in your description.

[Hanso Amore]

FUck it.

I will buy and personally Autograph a Daniel Bryan T shirt for whomever wants to bet me something back on par that Bryan WILL NOT be in the main event.

The autograph can be anything embarassing you want.

[Swiss Ultimate]

My apologies. I admire your determination. I'm not strong enough either way to make a guess. The whole thing has taken away with my imagination though.

So, Mr. Hanso. What is your ultimate prediction about TPWW?

[Swiss Ultimate]

FUck it.

I will buy and personally Autograph a Daniel Bryan T shirt for whomever wants to bet me something back on par that Bryan WILL NOT be in the main event.

The autograph can be anything embarassing you want.

Hanso bringing out the big guns here.

[Droford]

I'll make some sort of bet I guess. if Bryan is put in the Championship match with Orton and Bootista, either by earning it by winning a match or just being added directly, and its a straight 1 fall match like almost all WWE Triple Threats, Daniel Bryan will be the one that is pinned or made to submit (to what? lol). It may or may not be clean finish, and either Orton or Bootista can be the winner (ehh..90% chance its Bootista) but Bryan will be the definitive loser of the match. I would be wrong if either Bootista or Orton is pinned or submitted, and of course if Bryan wins (spoiler..no way). It'd be a push if someone else is added to make it a Fatal 4 way or Bryan is never added to the match (which I think is the 97% most likely outcome anyway). Also a push if there's some sort of TNA-esque retarded finish including a DQ, countout or draw, or if someone is stretchered out, legit injury or not. It'd also be a push if Daniel Bryan wins a Money In the Bank match and cashes in after the Match, regardless of the outcome..but a cash in to put himself in the main event match would count.

Trying to see if all my bases are covered.

Oh, I'll lose if Daniel Bryan outright replaces Bootista for any reason and the title match is Orton/Bryan, even if Bryan get pinned by Orton.

[Swiss Ultimate]

That seems depressing.

[Hanso Amore]

Mine is simple.

At Wrestlemania Daniel Bryan will face and defeat HHH in a 20 minute or so match. He will get his "moment" in the sense that 70K fans will be chanting YES when he is lining up HHH for the big knee.

then he will go to the back. Randy Orton will then face and lose to Batista in a one on one match.

That is Wrestlemania.

Someone who wants to take that bet let me know.

[Droford]

It'd be just like WWE for the last 6 months to "give the fans what they want"...and then stick their nose in it when they do what they wanted to do anyway.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I have to say Hanso's is very pure and seems more likely than Bryan getting to the big show just to get fucked.

When was the last Wrestlemania that didn't have a happy ending? Miz VS. Cena?

[Droford]

Last year

[Swiss Ultimate]

What was last year, Cena over Rock? I'm out of the loop.

[Heisenberg]

I'm in. Something about stables and bets via video


I'm Optimist Prime

[Swiss Ultimate]

So, you predict that Bryan will main-event and win the title?

[Shisen Kopf]

Undertaker vs Sting

[ron the dial]

i'm an optimist about wrestling but a cynic about everything else. i need at least one thing that i have hope for. i may have made a terrible choice, but here we are.

[ron the dial]

but no i'm not a betting man

[Brigstocke]

I will fellate each and every one of you if Bryan isn't involved in the Title match somehow as a participant or run in....

[Swiss Ultimate]

I will fellate each and every one of you if Bryan isn't involved in the Title match somehow as a participant or run in....

I'll take this bet on the off chance that you have to fellate me.

I'll give you a nickel if you're right.

Wanna know what you're gonna get if you're wrong?

Herpes. You'll get herpes.

[Heisenberg]

So, you predict that Bryan will main-event and win the title?

Damn straight

[Lock Jaw]

I have already stated that I will ban myself if Daniel Bryan isn't in the main event. Count me in as an optimist.

I also do think CM Punk will return, but not until sometime after Wrestlemania.

[Swiss Ultimate]

So far only Brigstocke has put an orifice on the line. Can I get a second hole?

[Heyman]

I'm in.

I'll try and post a video stating that I was wrong about the WWE's ultimate end goal being for Daniel Bryan to win the title at Mania'.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't think WWE does or ever did have plans to put the title on Daniel Bryan as he is legitimately viewed as a valuable but ultimately B+ player. I think he will go on to beat Triple H at WrestleMania and that's it. No entry to the title match or anything. They will see that as the best solution they can find to please the very vocal smark crowd while not putting their title on a guy who isn't a good poster boy to represent their company to the mainstream audience (which is ultimately what WWE wants. Acceptance in the mainstream entertainment industry.)

So I guess by your definitions, I'd fall under the skeptic umbrella though I don't think there's any real scrambling at this point. They wanna please people by having Bryan beat Triple H and they wanna find a way to get people invested in Orton vs Batista one-on-one.

So I may not be "one of the more passionate" of the group.

[James Steele]

I will change my username to "Triple H Sucks Balls Like I Do" for 6 months if Daniel Bryan does not walk out of WrestleMania XXX as the WWE World's Heavyweight Wrestling Champion.

[Brigstocke]

I'll take this bet on the off chance that you have to fellate me.

I'll give you a nickel if you're right.

Wanna know what you're gonna get if you're wrong?

Herpes. You'll get herpes.

I will not be wrong...because I'm The Brig........and I'm Awesome...

[James Steele]

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[The Rogerer]

I guess cynic, my assertion is that Bryan will not be involved in the Championship picture at Wrestlemania in any way. That includes a title shot stipulation in his match. DTTS can pick my forfeit.

[Swiss Ultimate]

If you lose you have to watch Brig fellate a bunch of men.

[The Condor]

Daniel Bryan fans are starting to come across much like the talking heads on ESPN in one respect: nothing is ever enough. For example, over the past two weeks Jason Collins has played in the NBA and a prospective NFL player came out of the closet. Alas, several sports commentators are lamenting that they wish a "major star" akin to Derek Jeter or LeBron James would reveal themselves as gay. Why? Because they can never be satisfied much like Bryan fans who think beating HHH at 'Mania isn't enough. He just HAS to win the title, not beat his main adversary for the past 1/2 year and earn a shot by beating a guy at WM who happened to face UT twice and Brock Lesnar at each of the past 3 'Manias. I know this doesn't answer anything in the thread, but I just wanted to say that Bryan fans are cloying + annoying as balls these days.

[Brigstocke]

Ssssssh Edgar, I'm awesome.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I just want to see Foley go back in time and keep the title for an entire year.

[#1-norm-fan]

Daniel Bryan fans are starting to come across much like the talking heads on ESPN in one respect: nothing is ever enough. For example, over the past two weeks Jason Collins has played in the NBA and a prospective NFL player came out of the closet. Alas, several sports commentators are lamenting that they wish a "major star" akin to Derek Jeter or LeBron James would reveal themselves as gay. Why? Because they can never be satisfied much like Bryan fans who think beating HHH at 'Mania isn't enough. He just HAS to win the title, not beat his main adversary for the past 1/2 year and earn a shot by beating a guy at WM who happened to face UT twice and Brock Lesnar at each of the past 3 'Manias. I know this doesn't answer anything in the thread, but I just wanted to say that Bryan fans are cloying + annoying as balls these days.

I agree but I also think WWE is partially at fault. Bryan vs Triple H was the logical end point to this story the moment Triple H pedegreed him and cost him the title. They teased Bryan winning the title back WAY too much over the six months that followed though to the point where it raised all the Bryan marks' standards for him and made them feel like he's legit World Champion material and destined to win it in the end.

[Swiss Ultimate]

If the fans want him to be champion, then he's a legitimate champion.

When they lose the ability to suspend disbelief they stop watching.

[XL]

So when Rock won the title last year it was fine because he was the "most over guy on the roster". Yet, a year later Bryan is the most over guy on the roster and people are questioning whether he should be considered championship material.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Taking bets before Raw.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Anybody getting nervous?

[Swiss Ultimate]

BTW Nobody really took Hanso's bet for something equal to a signed T-shirt.

[Lock Jaw]

Anybody getting nervous?

Getting a bit nervous that they might just do Bryan vs. HHH at Mania with no added "get into the main event" stip....

[Swiss Ultimate]

Build up to Orton VS. Batista has been less than the buildup for a normal PPV match

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

They have a month of Raws left.

[Swiss Ultimate]

And Bryan VS. Triple H could happen right now and the fans would be satisfied with the payoff.

[#1-norm-fan]

If the fans want him to be champion, then he's a legitimate champion.

When they lose the ability to suspend disbelief they stop watching.

If he brings in an audience, he's a legitimate champion.

All those Bryan marks are gonna watch whether he wins the title or not. Which leaves his appeal to a more mainstream audience and ability to draw people to PPVs and TV shows he's headlining as the more important thing.

And the fact that the PPVs Bryan headlined last year didn't do very good business doesn't bode well for him drawing in the casual fan.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'll use the example I usually bring up here...

The fans wanted Santino to be World Champion a few years ago. Against Bryan, ironically. It was literally Bryan vs Santino for the chance to go to WrestleMania and the crowd was RABID for Santino to win the title. If they had their way he would have taken it off of Bryan and headlined WrestleMania. And he would have been MASSIVELY with the live crowd.

There's a reason they didn't do it though. Live crowds and the IWC shouldn't decide who the champion/face of the company is. If they did John Cena would have been a jobber a LONG time ago.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I think part of the problem is that wrestling is in decline in general. Then you've got to deal with the fact that so many people are watching PPVs for free, not buying merchandise or even tickets.

I will probably never go to a live WWE event for instance, unless I got to go for free. Blaming PPV buys on one or two single wrestlers without taking into context the over-all writing of the show and how the fans are reacting seems like something the wrestling industry would be guilty of though.

This recent Raw for instance had a lot of people doing stuff. I got good wrestling, good promos and everybody seemed to have something going on. That's how it's supposed to be. From what I've read though, the over-all product was weak for most of the year. Everybody who has been complaining has been saying the same things, that talent is being either held down or wasted and fans are subjected to horrible segments for no reason other than the writers are clueless. It's sounded like the very legitimate complaints about WCW during the death-period.

The WWE's best hope is to work on creating an over-all better product while listening to the majority of their core audience.

[Swiss Ultimate]

John Cena being half-cheered/half-booed...when did that really start? Around the John Deer tractor t-shirt era?

[#1-norm-fan]

The first I remember it was just around the time he was drafted to Raw and started feuding with Chris Jericho. So 2005-ish. Before the John Deere shirt era. Around the original "Champ is Here" picture of the WWE Title on the bottom of the shirt era.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I think merchandise is probably the most reliable area for pushing people...I probably am with the WWE on that front. However, that only pans out if every popular wrestlers gets quality stuff produced.

[rob11]

John Cena being half-cheered/half-booed...when did that really start? Around the John Deer tractor t-shirt era?
I first noticed it at Summerslam 2005 when he got a mixed reaction. I think he went against Jericho. They were putting him over established main eventers and he lost the "edginess" that made him popular with adult male fans in the first place.

[Heisenberg]

I will do the Tatanka chant on camera if I lose

[Swiss Ultimate]

pEOPLE PAYING UP

[Swiss Ultimate]

FUck it.

I will buy and personally Autograph a Daniel Bryan T shirt for whomever wants to bet me something back on par that Bryan WILL NOT be in the main event.

The autograph can be anything embarassing you want.

I'll make some sort of bet I guess. if Bryan is put in the Championship match with Orton and Bootista, either by earning it by winning a match or just being added directly, and its a straight 1 fall match like almost all WWE Triple Threats, Daniel Bryan will be the one that is pinned or made to submit (to what? lol). It may or may not be clean finish, and either Orton or Bootista can be the winner (ehh..90% chance its Bootista) but Bryan will be the definitive loser of the match. I would be wrong if either Bootista or Orton is pinned or submitted, and of course if Bryan wins (spoiler..no way). It'd be a push if someone else is added to make it a Fatal 4 way or Bryan is never added to the match (which I think is the 97% most likely outcome anyway). Also a push if there's some sort of TNA-esque retarded finish including a DQ, countout or draw, or if someone is stretchered out, legit injury or not. It'd also be a push if Daniel Bryan wins a Money In the Bank match and cashes in after the Match, regardless of the outcome..but a cash in to put himself in the main event match would count.

Trying to see if all my bases are covered.

Oh, I'll lose if Daniel Bryan outright replaces Bootista for any reason and the title match is Orton/Bryan, even if Bryan get pinned by Orton.

Mine is simple.

At Wrestlemania Daniel Bryan will face and defeat HHH in a 20 minute or so match. He will get his "moment" in the sense that 70K fans will be chanting YES when he is lining up HHH for the big knee.

then he will go to the back. Randy Orton will then face and lose to Batista in a one on one match.

That is Wrestlemania.

Someone who wants to take that bet let me know.

I will fellate each and every one of you if Bryan isn't involved in the Title match somehow as a participant or run in....

I'm in.

I'll try and post a video stating that I was wrong about the WWE's ultimate end goal being for Daniel Bryan to win the title at Mania'.

I don't think WWE does or ever did have plans to put the title on Daniel Bryan as he is legitimately viewed as a valuable but ultimately B+ player. I think he will go on to beat Triple H at WrestleMania and that's it. No entry to the title match or anything. They will see that as the best solution they can find to please the very vocal smark crowd while not putting their title on a guy who isn't a good poster boy to represent their company to the mainstream audience (which is ultimately what WWE wants. Acceptance in the mainstream entertainment industry.)

So I guess by your definitions, I'd fall under the skeptic umbrella though I don't think there's any real scrambling at this point. They wanna please people by having Bryan beat Triple H and they wanna find a way to get people invested in Orton vs Batista one-on-one.

So I may not be "one of the more passionate" of the group.

I will change my username to "Triple H Sucks Balls Like I Do" for 6 months if Daniel Bryan does not walk out of WrestleMania XXX as the WWE World's Heavyweight Wrestling Champion.

I guess cynic, my assertion is that Bryan will not be involved in the Championship picture at Wrestlemania in any way. That includes a title shot stipulation in his match. DTTS can pick my forfeit.

[Shisen Kopf]

Which one am I again? I forgot.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Sting VS. Undertaker.

[Shisen Kopf]

Fake Biker Sting and vs Fake Surfer Taker.

[Hanso Amore]

No one took my bet but I may just pay you Swiss

Assuming Bryan wins the title...

[Swiss Ultimate]

I don't think that's necessary, I wasn't strong one way or the other. I just fell in love with the narrative.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Does Big Show do the back heel kick now? It almost looked like a Big Super Kick.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Want to give props to both Orton and Batista though, they're really making this a fun match. Very competent and very athletic match so far.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Holy fuck..

[Swiss Ultimate]

lol, wrong thread.

[slik]

Bryan leaves the SuperDome with the WWE Title 100% at WMXXX

[Swiss Ultimate]

Well, that or CM Punk screws him over.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I'll take this bet on the off chance that you have to fellate me.

I'll give you a nickel if you're right.

Wanna know what you're gonna get if you're wrong?

Herpes. You'll get herpes.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Some people are better at predicting wrestling than others.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Bumping this. It was the last time I really gave a shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I loved Bryan's chase. Moments like the one with Bray Wyatt in the cage were truly great things. I remember being skeptical before that, but I can't pinpoint my wrestling cynicism. I generally say it was the 2015 Royal Rumble, but I haven't been happy with the general product for a much longer time than that.

WrestleMania XXX was a great PPV, but what bothers me about it, retrospectively, is how little any of it meant just a year later. The main event was Brock vs. Roman (vs. Rollins) after The Shield had disbanded after their amazing run over those 18 months or so. Cesaro had that great visual and moment in the Battle Royal, but a year later he was nowhere to be found. Daniel Bryan was in the opening match while Triple H wrestled a legend.

There was a period of time where I thought that the WWE had done something inadvertently brilliant when they had Sheamus beat him in 28 seconds or whatever it was. Screwing the fans out of the chance to see Bryan perform galvanized people and encouraged them to cheer for him. If I remember correctly, the post-WrestleMania 28 crowd was the first "WrestleMania crowd." The way they chanted for Daniel Bryan throughout the show and then heading into Raw. That was the moment it all really started. I always asked myself "Would Bryan have gotten to be as popular as he is without being fucked over like that?", and was kind of uncomfortable with the probable truth that the answer was "No." Bad booking was the new good booking for the existing audience.

But the crows are coming home to roost for them. Everyone wants to be that WrestleMania crowd, even if they don't have a clue why they are responding to things the way they are. They throw a charismatic guy like Jeff Hardy out there and the fans chant "Brother Nero." They try to push a guy like Roman Reigns; the crowd rejects it. They try to de-emphasize a guy like Roman Reigns; the crowd rejects it. The ironic wrestling fan is their own creation. The "hijacking" of their product has become encouraged and is now viewed as a "tradition."

As time has passed, I've changed my answer to that question I used to ask myself, and I realize that what would become marketed as "The YES! Movement" was actually not a healthy thing for wrestling. The rise of Daniel Bryan may not have happened the exact same way without that WrestleMania moment, but it's had detrimental effects right up until this day. We now have Daniel Bryan back and it doesn't feel the same, when a genuine desire to see him succeed was what started this in the first place. It's a monster and it's out of their control.

My answer is now: No. The WWE should not have screwed the fans out of the Daniel Bryan match at WrestleMania 28.