Battleground Thread

[Cool King]

I should have went for The Miz in Tipsters.

I even said it in the Raw thread that he'll win the title as a way to advertise his movie.

[Corndad]

RIP IC Title You had a great run.

[ron the dial]

miz is literally my least favorite wrestler on the roster. worst ending for that match. i would rather have heath slater.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

The Mizzzzz :z

[Shadrick]

I may need to refresh my stream on the WWE network.

[mhirn3]

Why is everyone so far behind? :-\


Well mine is ps3 lag.

Cleveland on cleveland violence!

[Poit]

Why is everyone so far behind? :-\

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Tonight I'll be live tweeting <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWEBattleground?src=hash">#WWEBattleground</a>. By that, I mean I'll be a few minutes behind due to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWENetwork?src=hash">#WWENetwork</a> lag.</p>&mdash; Garrett DeHoyos (@Poit_Narf) <a href="https://twitter.com/Poit_Narf/statuses/491012282701185024">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[Shadrick]

miz is literally my least favorite wrestler on the roster. worst ending for that match. i would rather have heath slater.

Heath eliminated Cesaro gave me some hope.

[#1-norm-fan]

HAH! MIZ! FUCK MOST OF YOU!

[Savio]

DAMN IT. I almost put Xavier over Ryder as first gone and they both go at like the same damn time.pretty much my thinking too

[ron the dial]

Heath eliminated Cesaro gave me some hope.
hope for what? a heath slater win? he is only right above miz. another pile of garbage who definitely should not have eliminated cesaro. senseless booking. pretty much the theme of this whole ppv.

[KIRA]

Oh Fuck you WWE fuck MIZ AND fuck your cock gobbling network.

[Droford]

They should have screwed up and showed the Lesnar/Cena promo for Summerslam

[Cool King]

Why doesn't Vince just have JBL, Cole and King get on their knees when they ask you to get the Network?

They're coming across as begging you to buy it, so they may aswell just get on their knees and clasp their hands together and beg you to buy it.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

A ABC Family Network film star is now IC Champion.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Why doesn't Vince just have JBL, Cole and King get on their knees when they ask you to get the Network?

They're coming across as begging you to buy it, so they may aswell just get on their knees and clasp their hands together and beg you to buy it.

I agree. The Network should sell itself. They need to tone it down.

[KIRA]

miz is literally my least favorite wrestler on the roster. worst ending for that match. i would rather have heath slater.

Much Much rather Ive never felt so trapped in a pair of paints my entire life :(

[Cool King]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Tonight I'll be live tweeting <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWEBattleground?src=hash">#WWEBattleground</a>. By that, I mean I'll be a few minutes behind due to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWENetwork?src=hash">#WWENetwork</a> lag.</p>&mdash; Garrett DeHoyos (@Poit_Narf) <a href="https://twitter.com/Poit_Narf/statuses/491012282701185024">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Great service, that. :y:

[Heisenberg]

Quite possibly one of the most whitest ways to announce Florida for an event

[#1-norm-fan]

A ABC Family Network film star is now IC Champion.

He's also a former WrestleMania main event winner.

[rockman725]

Judging by the quick scroll, I'm not the only one who thinks this PPV absolutely sucks, booking-wise. The opening match was awesome, but had the wrong finish. Everything else except for AJ over Paige is f'n ridiculous.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>"Well, The Miz won the title. At least things can't get any worse."

*Flo Rida promo*</font>

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Don't really care about this main event. Going to play some ESO.

[KIRA]

<font color=goldenrod>"Well, The Miz won the title. At least things can't get any worse."

*Flo Rida promo*</font>

You called for the lighting on that one

[rockman725]

Kane will win this match.

[Corndad]

http://a66c7b.medialib.glogster.com/media/0e/0e008e5c7c84d2de87c82604ed14501f218274eacbca1e475be122ad302043f3/angry-miz-girl-bmp.jpg

[BigCrippyZ]

This isn't the worst PPV ever but it's definitely not been very good and (to me) has been weird since they "cancelled" the Ambrose/Reigns match. MAYBE the main event won't suck.

[Cool King]

The more I think about it, the more I want Kane to win.

[Corndad]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Miz good but he never be Honky Tonky class <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWEBattleground?src=hash">#WWEBattleground</a></p>&mdash; The Iron Sheik (@the_ironsheik) <a href="https://twitter.com/the_ironsheik/statuses/491045108205109250">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[Heisenberg]

http://i.imgur.com/scu8TLR.png

[Droford]

http://a66c7b.medialib.glogster.com/media/0e/0e008e5c7c84d2de87c82604ed14501f218274eacbca1e475be122ad302043f3/angry-miz-girl-bmp.jpg

She's gotta be pushing close to the 'I wonder what she looks like now?' age.

[ron the dial]

i don't even think a great main event will save me from feeling disappointed in this whole ppv, and that's the first time i'll have said that since the network debuted. i generally try to look on the bright side of the worst decisions, but almost nothing so far has felt right to me outside of the tag title match and maybe the divas title match.

[Cool King]

Oh look, he has both titles.

[Dark One]

BUT THE INTERNET SAID THE OTHER BELT WAS RETIRED

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>YAY the big gold belt lives!</font>

[parkmania]

Still predicting that Kane wins when Reigns and Cena are out of it and Orton tries to make Kane lay down for the easy victory and Kane refuses. Chokeslam on Orton and new champ.

[KaosDarksol]

and he still has both titles

[Bad News Gertner]

Cesaro is Heath Slater's bitch!

[BigCrippyZ]

and he still has both titles

Read that as both titties.

[Dark One]

i don't even think a great main event will save me from feeling disappointed in this whole ppv, and that's the first time i'll have said that since the network debuted. i generally try to look on the bright side of the worst decisions, but almost nothing so far has felt right to me outside of the tag title match and maybe the divas title match.

True story.

Divas match had the right winner and was okay; the tag title match may have had the "wrong" winner, but both teams looked like world beaters and better in the end. Everything else? Pretty bewildering.

[Vastardikai]

Cole: "the greatest WWE Champion of All Time."

Vastardikai: Bruno, Backlund, Hogan, Austin, Rock

[ron the dial]

even before tonight, i really didn't care who won this match. still don't, i guess.

[Droford]

Ric Flair sold Cena back the belt for money to pay off an ex wife

[Droford]

Kane and Reigns fight mainly in the plains

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>We need to set up a word filter that automatically changes "Kane" to "The DEMON Kane".</font>

[Bad News Gertner]

Heath Slater eats over-rated, IWC darlings with no mic skills for breakfast.

It's time to go to bed, but not before some hardcore MasterSlating.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well this is better than last year's Battleground. And the main event can't possibly end any more hilariously awful.

[parkmania]

Cole: "the greatest WWE Champion of All Time."

Vastardikai: Bruno, Backlund, Hogan, Austin, Rock

Bruno and Backlund never held the WWE belt. /semantics

[Bad News Gertner]

This is the greatest ppv ever. Hands fucking down.

[Droford]

Well this is better than last year's Battleground. And the main event can't possibly end any more hilariously awful.

Brock should come out and F-5 everyone for the same effect.

[KaosDarksol]

random thought was RVD in the battle royal?

[parkmania]

Just noticed - it looks like Orton took some fashion advice on his choice of trunks for tonight from #Bluetista.

[KaosDarksol]

Just noticed - it looks like Orton took some fashion advice on his choice of trunks for tonight from #Bluetista.

yea but we can't make any blue puns with his name

[Cool King]

random thought was RVD in the battle royal?

Lock Jaw hunted him down and killed him.

[Droford]

Just noticed - it looks like Orton took some fashion advice on his choice of trunks for tonight from #Bluetista.

#Bluerton

[Dark One]

Brock should come out and F-5 everyone for the same effect.

http://cdn1.akamai.coub.com/coub/simple/cw_gif_big/ff626735036/c52f236ca71a59ff3fbc6/1391290368_q349ov_lh14.gif

http://phillbot.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/brockf51.gif

[slik]

Is Roman Reigns wearing Fubu or JNCO?

[Bad News Gertner]

Let's talk more about how Heath Slater is now better than Cesaro.

[ron the dial]

Is Roman Reigns wearing Fubu or JNCO?
fubu and jnco

[Dark One]

Randy Orton is now Lance Storm.

[Emperor Smeat]

i don't even think a great main event will save me from feeling disappointed in this whole ppv, and that's the first time i'll have said that since the network debuted. i generally try to look on the bright side of the worst decisions, but almost nothing so far has felt right to me outside of the tag title match and maybe the divas title match.

Agree a bit. Was really looking forward to Ambrose-Rollins while the IC battle royale was alright besides the finish.

[Cool King]

That is not an STF, Cole.

[Droford]

I almost could see a double pin by Cena on Kane and Reigns on Orton to confuse things up.

[Cool King]

Now, it's an STF.

[#1-norm-fan]

I guess I don't mind this PPV as much because I was not all lubed up an prepared to jack off to Rollins vs Ambrose.

[KIRA]

yea but we can't make any blue puns with his name

That and he doesn't look like a tool.

[Emperor Smeat]

Randy could have just popped his head out of the STF from how bad Cena did it.

[ron the dial]

I guess I don't mind this PPV as much because I was not all lubed up an prepared to jack off to Rollins vs Ambrose.
i didn't even really have a problem with them pulling it since they continued to build the feud throughout the night. we'll get the payoff on it eventually. i'd rather see a slower build.

[Droford]

Samoans know how to avert the five knuckle shuffle apparently

[#1-norm-fan]

Hah! Cena lifting his head to make sure he wouldn't have to kick out.

[slik]

Summer of Reigns

[#1-norm-fan]

That barricade spot is becoming the new spanish announce table spot.

[Droford]

lol cameraman should have got kicked too

[KIRA]

Kane is just a barrier in this match

[Droford]

Too bad we're getting Cena/Lesnar and not Cena/Reigns

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>With all of these pins being broken up I feel like I'm playing WWE 2k</font>

[Droford]

Kane is just a barrier in this match

the fall guy if you weeel

[mhirn3]

Super Cena AA EREYBODY!

[#1-norm-fan]

CENAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[slik]

I am so shocked by the winner of this match.

[KIRA]

I'm so bloody shocked.

[Dark One]

10 minutes left for Plan C?

[ron the dial]

i'm good with that win.

[Cool King]

Cena's AA is so powerful that it also effects the person the victim falls on?

[Droford]

lol I had cena winning pinning kane with an attitude adjustment..does that count lol

[Droford]

HERE COMES THE PAIN MAGGLE

or not

[Emperor Smeat]

10 minutes left for Plan C?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>In case you're wondering ... Heading to pick up <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PlanC?src=hash">#PlanC</a> ... Just in case. <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE">@WWE</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAW?src=hash">#RAW</a> <a href="http://t.co/Sgpkz47ewv">pic.twitter.com/Sgpkz47ewv</a></p>&mdash; Paul Heyman (@HeymanHustle) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeymanHustle/statuses/491048474071154689">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[parkmania]

Would love it if Justin Roberts knew he was leaving the company and announced him as "... and still WWE World Heavyweight champion, John Cenawinslol."

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Cena win. AA. Pinfall on Kane. Literally the only match I got right in Tipsters tonight.</font>

[#1-norm-fan]

Oh. I thought something cool might happen after the match. Huh.

[Cool King]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>In case you're wondering ... Heading to pick up <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PlanC?src=hash">#PlanC</a> ... Just in case. <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE">@WWE</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAW?src=hash">#RAW</a> <a href="http://t.co/Sgpkz47ewv">pic.twitter.com/Sgpkz47ewv</a></p>&mdash; Paul Heyman (@HeymanHustle) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeymanHustle/statuses/491048474071154689">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Looks like he's in space.

[Dark One]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>In case you're wondering ... Heading to pick up <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PlanC?src=hash">#PlanC</a> ... Just in case. <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE">@WWE</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAW?src=hash">#RAW</a> <a href="http://t.co/Sgpkz47ewv">pic.twitter.com/Sgpkz47ewv</a></p>&mdash; Paul Heyman (@HeymanHustle) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeymanHustle/statuses/491048474071154689">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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He must have meant Chinese food.

[Droford]

sucky ppv, everything pretty much downhill after the tag match..

[parkmania]

Wouldn't Lesnar be Plan F, as in F-5?

[#1-norm-fan]

Looks like he's in space.

Plan C is Max Moon.

[Droford]

Plan C is Max Moon.

http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/saturn3.jpg

[Shisen Kopf]

Is that owenbrown in the pink shirt behind the announce table?

[parkmania]

I'd pay money to have Renee Young go "Ooo" with me.

[Cool King]

I thought the PPV was alright.

I would probably say that the Tag Team Match was the match of the night, but Rusev/Swagger was also really good, it just sucks that it ended via countout.

The main event was pretty bad. For a main event anyway, it was. I would say it was the worst match on the card. Not counting the kickoff matches.

[Droford]

Renee is interviewing everybody!

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>This was a pretty meh PPV overall. Amazing opening match and several other solid matches, but nothing really interesting happened. Could have skipped it and tuned in to Raw tomorrow with nothing really being different from last week.

Ah well. SummerSlam should be pretty excellent.</font>

[Droford]

Cena cutting a Scott Steiner math promo?

[parkmania]

Plan C is Max Moon.

http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/saturn3.jpg

Undecided whether to a) say "You're welcome", or b) wonder if the spaceship is actually headed to Planet Stasiak.

[Savio]

C is for Cookie

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol still can't believe Slater eliminated Cesaro

[slik]

The post-show is already over...

Not even ten-minutes long...

[Dark One]

Cena cutting a Scott Steiner math promo?

I'll take any excuse to post it again.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WFoC3TR5rzI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Shadrick]

lol scott steiner is the best ever

[Shadrick]

Lol still can't believe Slater eliminated Cesaro

why not? its only the greatest night in the history of our sport

[Bad News Gertner]

It really really is. Lol love this so much.

[Cool King]

Lol still can't believe Slater eliminated Cesaro

Neither can I, actually.

[Bad News Gertner]

Swagger should have come out wearing gear with the Malaysian flag on it with Rusev defeating Swagger with a Missle Dropkick.

[Vastardikai]

Put it in order as best I can.

Tag Match was good. Loved the Big Boot to end the first fall. Great match with the wrong finish.

Paige vs. AJ was alright. Paige looked really sloppy. Nice Shining Wizard for the finish.

Rusev vs. Swagger was pretty damn good. It would have been an excellent '80s match. I guess that's why I liked it. That said, I don't like the idea of Rusev winning by countout. It should have been a double countout, due to Swagger refusing to let the Patriot Lock go outside.

Jericho vs. Wyatt was kind of weird. It was a good enough match. But I wouldn't have gone with Jericho winning, though.

The Rollins-Ambrose stuff was actually well thought out. I laughed at the last one. I was thinking "It'd be hilarious if he was in the trunk." Sure enough.

Battle Royal wasn't bad. But, the first time I saw Miz hiding outside the ring, I knew he was going to win. Can't fault the logic.

World Title match, for a Fatal Fourway, wasn't bad. I knew Cena was going to win, would have preferred Kane only because it would have been different and Reigns isn't ready yet. I swear, Cena's been on top so long, Cornette's 7 year rule has taken effect and they're redoing angles. Mad the match ended so early, I thought something else was going to happen. Instead, PPV ends 10 minutes early (give or take). There's more fuel to the Orton-Reigns fire, which should blow off appropriately at SummerSlam.

[Cool King]

http://mkerala.com/n/di/LUYB/1405914730953.gif

[#1-norm-fan]

Rusev vs. Swagger was pretty damn good. It would have been an excellent '80s match. I guess that's why I liked it. That said, I don't like the idea of Rusev winning by countout. It should have been a double countout, due to Swagger refusing to let the Patriot Lock go outside.

That seems heelish. I like this better. It gives the heel the cheap win and bragging rights going into the rematch. Plus Swagger being knocked out allowed for the post-match attack to draw more heat. Between Raw and this, they're setting up a SummerSlam match brilliantly. A submission match would be a perfect way to finish the rivalry.

[Cool King]

Put it in order as best I can.

Tag Match was good. Loved the Big Boot to end the first fall. Great match with the wrong finish.

Paige vs. AJ was alright. Paige looked really sloppy. Nice Shining Wizard for the finish.

Rusev vs. Swagger was pretty damn good. It would have been an excellent '80s match. I guess that's why I liked it. That said, I don't like the idea of Rusev winning by countout. It should have been a double countout, due to Swagger refusing to let the Patriot Lock go outside.

Jericho vs. Wyatt was kind of weird. It was a good enough match. But I wouldn't have gone with Jericho winning, though.

The Rollins-Ambrose stuff was actually well thought out. I laughed at the last one. I was thinking "It'd be hilarious if he was in the trunk." Sure enough.

Battle Royal wasn't bad. But, the first time I saw Miz hiding outside the ring, I knew he was going to win. Can't fault the logic.

World Title match, for a Fatal Fourway, wasn't bad. I knew Cena was going to win, would have preferred Kane only because it would have been different and Reigns isn't ready yet. I swear, Cena's been on top so long, Cornette's 7 year rule has taken effect and they're redoing angles. Mad the match ended so early, I thought something else was going to happen. Instead, PPV ends 10 minutes early (give or take). There's more fuel to the Orton-Reigns fire, which should blow off appropriately at SummerSlam.

Pretty much my thought exactly. :y:

[Cool King]

That seems heelish. I like this better. It gives the heel the cheap win and bragging rights going into the rematch. Plus Swagger being knocked out allowed for the post-match attack to draw more heat. Between Raw and this, they're setting up a SummerSlam match brilliantly. A submission match would be a perfect way to finish the rivalry.

I get the feeling it's heading that way and that it's going to be a Submission match at SummerSlam, which would actually be pretty good.

[Heisenberg]

Tatanka was backstage, niiiiiice

[Emperor Smeat]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/994192d8e8961db5485025c427624630/tumblr_n91hdx562c1srbyoyo1_400.gif

[road doggy dogg]

sounds like my decision to avoid this ppv was a wise one

[screech]

I enjoyed the show. Tag title match was great, really liking the Usos' run. Swagger/Rusev was very good, and I was okay with the finish as it furthers the feud. Really liked Ambrose/Rollins stuff, although I was looking forward to a match. Divas title match was good enough. Battle Royal was fun, as they usually are.

Main event was okay. Not a "bad match" but it was a bit weak, I guess. Would have been aces with a DEMON KANE win, though.

[#1-norm-fan]

It was a fine PPV. It had it's flaws like Bray Wyatt's already shitty momentum needlessly falling further into a hole and the end feeling relatively uneventful. There was some good story development though. I actually prefer what happened with Ambrose and Rollins to anything that could have come from a match.

[Sepholio]

Really wish Wyatt would have won. Was honestly shocked that he didn't. But it's Jericho, and I love Jericho so it's cool. Obviously gonna have a rematch at SS and I figure this was always the case because they didn't really have time to build this feud much and with 2 guys this good on the stick, it'd be a shame to not have it go on.

Same for the tag match, absolutely baffled that Harper and Rowan didn't win this one. In saying that though, I noticed they keep plugging the spot of how the wrong Uso got pinned a couple weeks ago and it makes me wonder if they are now going to point out that Harper's shoulder wasn't down for the 3 count during the second fall of the match. Both sides have won a match where the ref 'missed' something now.

Rusev and Swagger was pretty sweet. Was shocked they actually let Lana refer to 'recent current events', kinda WAAAAAY too soon for that, but #Nuclear heat and all. Finish worked for me tbh, Swagger gets cheaply knocked out after dominating Rusev pretty much the whole time, so this one obv keeps going another month. I'd have had Cesaro come down and save Swagger at the end though when he was getting put in the accolade.

Paige and AJ was Paige and AJ. Pretty sloppy match tbh but that's always the case with Paige it seems. Glad AJ retained.

F the battle royal. Just F it. Was happy about Slater getting a little rub from it. Was super stoked that Ziggler made it to the end.....and then the damn Miz. I guess this is his reward for making shitty movies. Oh well, Ziggler gonna get that title at SS.

As for the title match....well, we all knew zOMG CENA WINS. Wasn't quite the finish I was expecting though. Was just really sudden. But meh, Superman's title reign is going to meet it's end soon enough. Plan C gonna whoop that ass.

[#1-norm-fan]

They had something special on their hands with Wyatt after that Royal Rumble match where he beat Daniel Bryan clean after a fucking war. He looked like such a threat. How does WWE consistently start a good thing and then fuck it up royally so often? Holy shit.

[Crimson]

They had something special on their hands with Wyatt after that Royal Rumble match where he beat Daniel Bryan clean after a fucking war. He looked like such a threat. How does WWE consistently start a good thing and then fuck it up royally so often? Holy shit.

Since he's way over they think losses to legit opponents won't hurt?

[Sepholio]

I think they may be trying to force him back to full-on heel status, tbh. He was getting too many face pops considering what he is supposed to be. I feel like SS might be the beginning of some big things for him.

[#1-norm-fan]

Since he's way over they think losses to legit opponents won't hurt?

That theory has been tested and failed. A lot. It doesn't work. Even The Rock had people get bored with him and start to resent him being on top when the "he can lose constantly and people will still buy into him" theory was tested.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think they may be trying to force him back to full-on heel status, tbh. He was getting too many face pops considering what he is supposed to be. I feel like SS might be the beginning of some big things for him.

I don't see how making him lose and look less credible helps build him more as a heel though. He'll probably get the win back at SummerSlam. Splitting feuds doesn't build a guy up as a credible threat. Especially against a guy who jobs to anyone and everyone.

[Sepholio]

Because he's going to get pissed off about losing, turn on the fans and snap.

[#1-norm-fan]

1) How do you turn on the fans when you were never a face to begin with?

2) Will he become a badass submission machine? Because then I might have to re-evaluate this whole thing.

[Dark One]

I think they may be trying to force him back to full-on heel status, tbh. He was getting too many face pops considering what he is supposed to be. I feel like SS might be the beginning of some big things for him.

If losing made you a heel, Zack Ryder would be the face of the WWE in The Authority.

[Sepholio]

That's just it though. He pretty much turned into a face. The whole "(city name) We're here" thing is a face move. He was cheered over Cena on several occasions. People clap for him and chat for him and sing his song. The freaking cell phone lights.....Those are face reactions and you know it.

What they are doing now is killing off a bunch of the face pops fans were giving to him, or they are at least trying to. Then they can make him the heel he is meant to be and use him against the true faces of the company without the fear of him getting the wrong reactions.

[#1-norm-fan]

If getting cheered over Cena on several occasions makes you a face, then pretty much every heel in the company is a face. Killing off his momentum is fucking retarded. And you act like the "(city name) we're here" thing is something that they can't just... stop doing if they're really concerned with it being a face thing.

[Sepholio]

If getting cheered over Cena on several occasions makes you a face, then pretty much every heel in the company is a face.

Explain the rest of the face reactions he gets then. People love him and they are not supposed to love the heel. Explain why 99% of heels get booed and Bray doesn't? It's because he is getting the wrong reaction.

[Dark One]

That's just it though. He pretty much turned into a face. The whole "(city name) We're here" thing is a face move. He was cheered over Cena on several occasions. People clap for him and chat for him and sing his song. The freaking cell phone lights.....Those are face reactions and you know it.

What they are doing now is killing off a bunch of the face pops fans were giving to him, or they are at least trying to. Then they can make him the heel he is meant to be and use him against the true faces of the company without the fear of him getting the wrong reactions.

If getting cheered over Cena makes you a face, 95% of the roster is face.

I'll credit you with the rest though, sure. I think that some of it important for the creepy cult leader facet of his gimmick, but it does encroach a bit on the good side for a guy that's supposed to be a sadistic lunatic out to break heroes.

That said, if having the guy lose matches that have no verve or momentum, or having him lose overbooked schmozzes that nobody can care about because they're convoluted messes, is supposed to be the way to make him a top heel, I think we've found why a lot of the roster gets shit-all for reactions now.

[#1-norm-fan]

Explain the rest of the face reactions he gets then. People love him and they are not supposed to love the heel. Explain why 99% of heels get booed and Bray doesn't? It's because he is getting the wrong reaction.

I'm still waiting to hear how killing his momentum is the way to make a heel people love to hate. I'd rather he be getting cheered leading to crazy crowd reactions than for people not to give a fuck at all because he's not really a threat to win matches anyway.

Also, like I said, how is the cheap pop at the beginning of the entrance not something he can just stop doing if they're worried about face reactions? By mentioning that as an issue, you're basically trying to reason that killing his momentum to make the crowd stop caring is a better strategy than simply removing the cheap pop.

[Sepholio]

They aren't killing his momentum, more like stagnating it. Trying to hold it back for now. He went over Cena during that split feud; if they wanted to kill it he would have lost every single match.

They are just trying to kill the face reactions. I don't necessarily agree with how they are doing it, but it's clear that is the desired result. Let's be real, when has he ever actually done shit without aid from Harper and Rowan? Not very often, if ever. Just watch, he's going to completely off the hinges in the next few weeks, pissed off about losing and how people are thinking he is weak and thinking he needs Harper and Rowan to do EVERYTHING for him and then win clean as a whistle over Jericho. He's going to get the rub and we all know it.

They tried the sorta quick push when he went over Bryan early in the year. Then the fans start popping for him like he is king face. Now they are just bringing him back down so they can try again to push him the other way.

But yea let's just keep his momentum going and let him be a face when the company NEEDS him as a heel. He has the potential to be the best heel in YEARS and if they have to reel him back in to get to that then I am fine with it.

[Sepholio]

Also, going over Jericho after yet another of his returns is just run of the mill. It always happens. Maybe I'm looking at his loss here from the wrong perspective. Maybe they are trying to make Jericho look credible again before feeding him to Wyatt.

I love me some Jericho, but for years now he just shows up to lose. He isn't looked at as a credible threat anymore. Bray just split with Cena, going over Jericho in a 3 week feud would do nothing for him really. But if you make Jericho look dangerous first, it makes Bray look better when he does go over.

[#1-norm-fan]

... They intentionally have him get a cheap pop in the beginning of his entrance. Yet they're going through great lengths in other capacities to stop people from cheering for him by making them care less about the character altogether...

[#1-norm-fan]

I love me some Jericho, but for years now he just shows up to lose. He isn't looked at as a credible threat anymore. Bray just split with Cena, going over Jericho in a 3 week feud would do nothing for him really. But if you make Jericho look dangerous first, it makes Bray look better when he does go over.

... By splitting a feud with a guy who isn't looked at as a credible threat. So Bray beating Jericho does nothing for him. But him losing to Jericho and then beating him does.

You're saying they should use Bray Wyatt to make Jericho look like a credible threat so that they can use Jericho to make Bray Wyatt look like a credibly threat. Do you not see the flaw in that logic?

[Sepholio]

I get your point. You keep saying the same thing over and over again, it's hard not to get it. Come up with something else oh great OMNI.

[Dark One]

Well, clearly some of us are right and some of us are wrong, and it's going to stay that way.

But you know what will make it better? More Scott Steiner.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ipP-1CrSrUs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[#1-norm-fan]

I get your point. You keep saying the same thing over and over again, it's hard not to get it. Come up with something else oh great OMNI.

I don't think you do get my point. Everything you've said since I made it contradicts it. Your entire reasoning for why losing the match is beneficial to Wyatt in the long run is insane.

[Sepholio]

... By splitting a feud with a guy who isn't looked at as a credible threat.

You're saying they should use Bray Wyatt to make Jericho look like a credible threat so that they can use Jericho to look Bray Wyatt look like a credibly threat. Do you not see the flaw in that logic?

It is perfect WWE logic and you know it. What could they do with Bray to keep his momentum up right now? Huh? Nothing. There is no one credible on the face side for him to feud with other than Cena. What, Reigns? That's it at the top right now and they aren't going to kill Reigns momentum because they need him as a face.

That's exactly why I said they are stagnating his momentum right now. In the current story, there is nothing for him at the top, really, so they can't risk forcing him to the top and they realize it. If he goes over Jericho now, it does nothing for him. Nada. But if you make people remember that "Hey, this Jericho guy is pretty damn good. I forgot he had it like that!" then you have Wyatt snap and destroy him people will be like "Damn Wyatt is pretty bad ass after all!" Then they probably have the rubber match and Wyatt goes over him again and comes out on top of a split feud instead of losing it, like he did with Cena, and it helps to SLOWLY build him up. Maybe by then they can get another decent feud lined up for him.

The only other thing they could have done was keep going with that pseudo Sheamus feud. But no one wants to see that because while Sheamus is good in the ring, he isn't that great with the stick. He can't keep up with Bray like Cena or Jericho or Bryan can in terms of that. And the stick is what makes Bray good, that is where he shines the most and there is no denying it. It's too bad Punk isn't around, because that would be incredible. They need time with Bray and they are trying to buy it by stalling.

[#1-norm-fan]

Sure it's WWE logic. WWE logic has been horribly flawed over recent years when it comes to building guys up as stars though. Hell, just look at every guy Jericho has put over in his recent outings. I have no problem with Wyatt feuding with Jericho at this point just based on the fact that coming out of the Cena feud, there wasn't anywhere to go opponent-wise but down.

You're trying to make sense of the WWE logic though. If he goes over Jericho now, it's not a huge deal but at least it's a win. THAT keeps his momentum stagnant while they stall for a more marquee feud. If he splits a feud with Jericho... it makes him look even less threatening. It makes them look on par with each other. If they put Jericho over some OTHER solid guys first so that he was a guy you'd WANNA be on par with, that's one thing. As it stands, Bray Wyatt is fighting an uphill battle just to even things up with a guy who was last seen jobbing cleanly to the likes of Ryback and Fandango. And now we're supposed to be impressed if Wyatt can simply even the score with him.

[el bobbo]

This sounds pretty bad. I think I'm not even going to watch the replay.

[Sepholio]

I don't think you do get my point. Everything you've said since I made it contradicts it. Your entire reasoning for why losing the match is beneficial to Wyatt in the long run is insane.

I get your point on this. I just don't agree with it entirely. Getting the fans to cool off on him first on their own gives him context for dropping the cheap pop at the entrance. I don't want him to just drop it for no reason; that's cheap heat and it kinda goes against the effort they are putting into his character development. Bray has reasons for what he says and does, so instead of just dropping it (RKO) out of nowhere, give the fans a reason to stop caring as much about the face move, which in turn gives Bray a reason to turn on them a bit instead of pandering to them and thus a reason to stop the face move. It may not be the best way to do it, but stalling his momentum a bit and cooling the fans off can give him a better opening to turn more heelish and stay in line with his character. I'm honestly having trouble explaining this situation, clearly. I can't quite get the right words I'm looking for but I hope that makes a little more sense. I don't want them to change him without his character having a reason for the change, is all, if that makes better sense.

Sure it's WWE logic. WWE logic has been horribly flawed over recent years when it comes to building guys up as stars though. Hell, just look at every guy Jericho has put over in his recent outings. I have no problem with Wyatt feuding with Jericho at this point just based on the fact that coming out of the Cena feud, there wasn't anywhere to go opponent-wise but down.

You're trying to make sense of the WWE logic though. If he goes over Jericho now, it's not a huge deal but at least it's a win. THAT keeps his momentum stagnant while they stall for a more marquee feud. If he splits a feud with Jericho... it makes him look even less threatening. It makes them look on par with each other. If they put Jericho over some OTHER solid guys first so that he was a guy you'd WANNA be on par with, that's one thing. As it stands, Bray Wyatt is fighting an uphill battle just to even things up with a guy who was last seen jobbing cleanly to the likes of Ryback and Fandango. And now we're supposed to be impressed if Wyatt can simply even the score with him.

I actually somewhat agree with you here. In a perfect situation, they could have Jericho go over some other people first to build his credibility. I would much rather that be the case here, but if you do that, where would you stick Bray in the meantime?

With Punk leaving and Bryan being injured, there is a huge lack of faces at the top for Bray to feud with. And unfortunately, they are tied up with The Authority. Sure, you can stick him in the mid-card for a bit, but that only leaves a few guys credible enough for him to work with at the level he has attained already. The likes of Sheamus, which I already explained why I think that's a bad idea, or Ziggler maybe but he needs to be getting pushed right now as well. Really, they could feed him a lesser title like the U.S. or IC but I don't think they want that because he is clearly going to be in the WWE title scene and dropping the lesser title to a mid-carder eventually would hurt that prospect. The best option would have been to vault a current midcard face to the top and have Bray feud with them for awhile, but there was no time to build up a midcard face to that level, other than, once again, Sheamus.

There really is nothing for him right now; he needed someone like a Jericho. And yes, they could have him go over Jericho immediately. But as it stands, Jericho is the current star jobber. You reference Ryback, and I honestly forgot about Fandango (UHG) going over him, and look what happened? There was nothing for them in the end and they fell off into the abyss.

I also don't think he will just even the score with Jericho, but instead come out 2-1 or even 3-1 over him, and at some point proving that he doesn't need his minions help to do it. Like you said and I agree with, it would have been better to build Jericho a bit first, but they didn't have the time for that so the only other option is to try and make Jericho look legit during the feud. It may not be perfect, but there are not many other options right now.

[Fignuts]

Wyatt should be the WWE champion right now, Rowan & Harper should be tag champions, and Cesaro should be the IC champion.

No idea what they are doing with these guys anymore, but they had such great momentum. It should have been capitalized. Instead they're focusing on the much less talented Roman Reigns. Fucking hell.

[Sepholio]

The whole problem is the lack of top draw faces right now. They just have nowhere for him to go. And it downright sucks.

I'm just trying to make sense of why they are doing what they are doing with him so that I don't lose hope. Bray is my favorite persona in a LOOOOONG time and I don't want them to drop the ball like they always do, y'know?

If only The Rock was available to feud with him and do the job. Or even Big Show, really.

I tell you what though, after this little debate between us #1-wwf-fan, I have come to a new understanding about why they gave the title to Cena again. They really had no other choice because of the circumstances and story lines. And I think that may actually also be the reason why Bray didn't go over Cena in their feud. If Punk and Bryan had still been around at the time, I think that whole scenario would have turned out quite a bit differently.

[#1-norm-fan]

An easy way to build up Jericho for a bit while not just letting Bray do nothing in the meantime: Scripted injury. WWE doesn't do that enough and it's a good method of stretching a feud and building anticipation for two guys to finally make contact. You let Jericho get some wins heading into Battleground, Wyatt gets "injured" and Jericho has to face someone else. Hell, as much as I don't like the gimmick on him, make use of "Bray-mion Sandow". Or even better, you could have him face Seth Rollins now that he doesn't have a match and make Jericho look strong by going a good 15 minutes with Mr. Money in the Bank in a great match before a non-finish with Ambrose coming back into the building to attack. Then you have Wyatt come out and beat Jericho down with his crutches, proving it was all set up and he was just playing mind games and you've built up the SummerSlam match with Jericho looking more competitive and Wyatt not continuing his downward spiral from the Cena feud.

[Sepholio]

Did not think about that and it is a pretty good idea.

They should have played it off on Bray's nasty shiner he's had going on for the last 10 days or so. Acted like he needed surgery on his eye or his orbital bone or something.

I think the reason Ambrose and Rollins didn't have an actual match tonight though may have something to do with Rollins being legit injured though. When he got hurt on RAW, I thought it was real. Then he came out on Smackdown and I was like oh, it was a work. But I'm pretty sure I noticed him limping a little bit tonight still, so I'm thinking he just has a minor sprain right now or something and they didn't want to risk a full on match just yet.

But yeah, your idea is not a bad one at all.

[#1-norm-fan]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of The Usos retaining. They've got more staying power as a team than any team we've seen in a while since there can't be much of an urge to ever break them up. I like the idea of them going over a couple guys who have been feuding with main eventers recently but can't quite figure out how to take the tag titles from these two. It brings up the prestige of the titles and it makes The Usos seem like they could be a legit, long-term Road Warrior/Steiner-esque uppercard tag team.

[rockman725]

Just read through that whole convo above about Bray & Jericho. Both you guys make good points.

IMO, the only way that Jericho winning would have made sense, would have been if he got Bray in a school boy (or similar pinning move) in a very short amount of time, possibly not even a minute. Then Bray snapped and went to town on Jericho with chairs and kendo sticks and bowling balls and thumbs tacks and whatever the hell else they keep under the ring, after the match was over. All while taunting Chris with "Save yourself from this ass whooping Chris, save yourself" after every friggin' chair shot.

Oh wait, that's probably not PG...nevermind

[Tom Guycott]

http://i.minus.com/iblVjYO3MY0Adx.gif

"SOME PEOPLE STAAAAAAND IN THE DARKNESS, AFRAID TO STEP INTOOOOO THE LIIIIIGHT...."

[hb2k]

While I hate the decision to ever "cool something off", especially at a time like this when the landscape has been stagnant for so long, clearly this is going a while, and if the company has ANY creative ideas for this, then it'll be Wyatt's feud, with Wyatt dominating the TV push and winning in the end. So while I'm not at all fond of Bray losing here, Bray did need an incentive to go on to push the envelope with this feud, because so far they're linked together for no real reason.

A good decision made for a bad reason, I suppose.

[Innovator]

Sure it's WWE logic. WWE logic has been horribly flawed over recent years when it comes to building guys up as stars though. Hell, just look at every guy Jericho has put over in his recent outings. I have no problem with Wyatt feuding with Jericho at this point just based on the fact that coming out of the Cena feud, there wasn't anywhere to go opponent-wise but down.

You're trying to make sense of the WWE logic though. If he goes over Jericho now, it's not a huge deal but at least it's a win. THAT keeps his momentum stagnant while they stall for a more marquee feud. If he splits a feud with Jericho... it makes him look even less threatening. It makes them look on par with each other. If they put Jericho over some OTHER solid guys first so that he was a guy you'd WANNA be on par with, that's one thing. As it stands, Bray Wyatt is fighting an uphill battle just to even things up with a guy who was last seen jobbing cleanly to the likes of Ryback and Fandango. And now we're supposed to be impressed if Wyatt can simply even the score with him.
Wyatt is now on a 3 PPV losing streak, if you want to count that PPV cage match win against Cena as a win. Cena gets 10 visionary wins in the match only to lose to a demonic 9 year old.

They're in dangerous territory with Bray, he's been saying the same thing over and over again for months but can't win. The crowd even turned on RAW and started with the boring chants. We get the guy can talk, but it means nothing when they're all empty threats.

[XL]

If I'd paid for this show I'd be disappointed, but I didn't so...

Definitely feels like SummerSlam: Part I which is a shame in two ways;

1) if you paid for the show you should get a show, complete with story progression/conclusion. Not just another episode of Raw.

2) SummerSlam, as the second biggest show of the year, should have plenty of first-run matches. They booked themselves into a corner, they did a good job pushing Rollins/Ambrose back but also had to deliver a non-finish with Swagger/Rusev and a momentum killer for Bray. We're expecting Lesnar/Cena II, a repeat of Swagger/Rusev, a sequel to Bray/Jericho, Reigns/Orton (who've been in a number of matches with one another), probably Paige/AJ again, etc. Almost feel Battleground should have taken place after SummerSlam.

On the plus side, the Tag Title match was great. Not sure what The Usos do now, though.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

The way I see it. I pay for the network because of the library and I get the PPVs also.

[ron the dial]

that's the exact opposite of how i view it.

[Wehttam]

which is any normal human's view when compared to stdamon

[Bad News Gertner]

Whats the issue with Jericho winning? It's probably a 2-3 month feud. If Wyatt wins last night then what's the point of a rematch? Jericho has nothing to prove but Wyatt does. Wyatt winning last night basically ends the feud right therr.

[dronepool]

6.5/10

Decent, missed it 'live' so I saw it at 12am, skipped past the boring stuff.

[XL]

Whats the issue with Jericho winning? It's probably a 2-3 month feud. If Wyatt wins last night then what's the point of a rematch? Jericho has nothing to prove but Wyatt does. Wyatt winning last night basically ends the feud right therr.

I think the issue is wider than just this loss. Wyatt talks a big game but has lost at the last 3/4 PPVs.

Of course, this is a lose-lose situation.

If Bray had been winning these big matches then people would bitch that he lost to Jericho and because Y2J always loses it makes Bray look weak.

If Bray wins, people bitch that it means nothing because Jericho always loses so a win over him means nothing.

And like you said, if Bray wins, where do they go then? I guess you have Jericho come back for more.

[Cool King]

I'm sure Jericho won as it would continue their feud into SummerSlam and then that's where Bray will win.

Why give Bray a win over a veteran like Jericho at a PPV that's only two years old? That stage isn't big enough, and if he had won last night, the feud would pretty much be over as "we all saw it coming" and most fans wouldn't be invested in the rest of what was left of the feud.

But with Jericho winning, it will lead to another match at SummerSlam, which will give more time for the feud to grow, and give Bray a much larger stage to win on, with SummerSlam being the second biggest PPV in the WWE's calendar.

Gaining a victory over a veteran on the second biggest stage is quite something. I wouldn't be surprised if their match at SummerSlam has a stipulation, and isn't just your average one on one singles match like last night.

[Fenix122]

6.5/10

Decent, missed it 'live' so I saw it at 12am, skipped past the boring stuff.

So you didn't watch anything after the tag match? :shifty:

[dronepool]

I watched half the tag match, The Seth Rollins stuff, the Wyatt/Y2J match and 75% of the main the event.

[Maluco]

If I'd paid for this show I'd be disappointed, but I didn't so...

Definitely feels like SummerSlam: Part I which is a shame in two ways;

1) if you paid for the show you should get a show, complete with story progression/conclusion. Not just another episode of Raw.

2) SummerSlam, as the second biggest show of the year, should have plenty of first-run matches. They booked themselves into a corner, they did a good job pushing Rollins/Ambrose back but also had to deliver a non-finish with Swagger/Rusev and a momentum killer for Bray. We're expecting Lesnar/Cena II, a repeat of Swagger/Rusev, a sequel to Bray/Jericho, Reigns/Orton (who've been in a number of matches with one another), probably Paige/AJ again, etc. Almost feel Battleground should have taken place after SummerSlam.

On the plus side, the Tag Title match was great. Not sure what The Usos do now, though.


This. I think WWE get off with stupid things at times because of who they are. If TNA had put something similar on, people would be all lolTNA.

Ok, Jericho beating Wyatt would normally be fine, but it's 3rd PPV loss in a row and boring chant is a bad sign. They are pushing the tag champions, while splitting all the teams. One of the top matches on the card didn't happen, ok for TV but not PPV imo. Cesaro was eliminated by Slater after everything that happened at Mania. Don't wait until Miz is over again, just stick belt on him and hope that helps him. It's poor and it's lazy and ending the show with Cena as champ is appropriate because it looks like they will still be needing him there in 5 years time.

[Maluco]

I'm sure Jericho won as it would continue their feud into SummerSlam and then that's where Bray will win.

Why give Bray a win over a veteran like Jericho at a PPV that's only two years old? That stage isn't big enough, and if he had won last night, the feud would pretty much be over as "we all saw it coming" and most fans wouldn't be invested in the rest of what was left of the feud.

But with Jericho winning, it will lead to another match at SummerSlam, which will give more time for the feud to grow, and give Bray a much larger stage to win on, with SummerSlam being the second biggest PPV in the WWE's calendar.

Gaining a victory over a veteran on the second biggest stage is quite something. I wouldn't be surprised if their match at SummerSlam has a stipulation, and isn't just your average one on one singles match like last night.


This is what I made my thread about. It's a lose lose. Jericho has lost to everyone on his recent runs, and while that is admirable and shows his love for the business, it is hard to know what to do.

Awin over Jericho, no matter what the stage, isn't that big a deal anymore. It should be, but it isn't. A loss...Bray will do in 2 times, what it took Fandango to do in one...

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah but Jericho is seen as a big deal to the casual fan which represents the vast majority of the audiebce. He comes and goes so often that people forget shit like him losing to Fandango at Wrestlemania.

[Savio]

#NeverForget

[Shisen Kopf]

that's the exact opposite of how i view it.

I agree with this. I got the network for WM as I was not invited to the party in Chicago :(

[Innovator]

I agree with Gertie about Jericho, he comes back and it's a big deal. The casuals forget he lost to Fandango, Ziggler, Ryback, and JTG

[ron the dial]

that logic just points out a different flaw in their booking, though. and i don't have a problem with bray losing, but it's not like he looked particularly strong coming out of that match. it was kind of a weak effort all around.

[#1-norm-fan]

They might forget his individual losses. They don't forget the general idea that he comes back to lose and is no longer a real threat. He comes back to put over jobbers because they have no concept of putting thought into who they use him to try to put over.

I get "Bray had to lose because it's gonna be a 3 month long feud and they need to stretch it out." So just... don't make it a 3 month long feud. Or find a way not to have them have a match right off the bat like I mentioned above. Or simply find a way to keep the feud going the next night on Raw anyway if you're intent on stretching it out. Not every feud needs to have both guys lose a match to make them look even. No one ends up looking like a threat and it doesn't get anyone over.

[Maluco]

Yeah but Jericho is seen as a big deal to the casual fan which represents the vast majority of the audiebce. He comes and goes so often that people forget shit like him losing to Fandango at Wrestlemania.

I see your point, but I don't think I believe that in 2014. The majority of wrestling fans are on the internet now, voicing opinions, reading up on news, getting on social media. I don't think WWE give their fans enough credit with regards to their memory.

Still think it all points to a bigger problem, if he had just beaten Cena , it wouldn't have been as large an issue. Cena has won at the last 14 PPV's, he really didn't need to beat Bray imo. It's 2014 and the only guy getting a sustained push is John Cena

[Bad News Gertner]

They really aren't. It's a ton of families and casual viewers. I bet if you asked 100 fans who Jericho faced in his last Wrestlemania match I bet half couldn't name Fandango. I almost forgot that Jericho didn't wrestle at Wresylemania this year and I'm more than a casual fan that's for sure.

[ron the dial]

again, that's more a knock on how forgettable a lot of the booking is than a defense for what they're doing.

[Bad News Gertner]

Not saying that it isn't one bit, but it's still the case.

[Savio]

Still think it all points to a bigger problem, if he had just beaten Cena , it wouldn't have been as large an issue. Cena has won at the last 14 PPV's, he really didn't need to beat Bray imo. It's 2014 and the only guy getting a sustained push is John Cena
He lost to bray in a cage.

[#1-norm-fan]

They really aren't. It's a ton of families and casual viewers. I bet if you asked 100 fans who Jericho faced in his last Wrestlemania match I bet half couldn't name Fandango. I almost forgot that Jericho didn't wrestle at Wresylemania this year and I'm more than a casual fan that's for sure.

Families and casual viewers also don't remember when Jericho was actually booked as a threat to anyone. That was a much longer time ago.

[Sepholio]

They had to push Cena though. Someone had to fill the void left by Bryan and Punk. Had to be a face and he was the only one with enough drawing power to be put there at that time.

Bray Wyatt's currently a victim of Bryan's injury.

[thedarkness214]

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[Fignuts]

I don't even know why they're even pushing Reigns to be the top guy. I like him, but only a select few throughout history have had that "it factor" to be THE guy in WWE, and as far as I can see, Reigns doesn't have it.

[Cool King]

Maybe I'm late to noticing this, but I've noticed that the more Reigns is being pushed at being the top guy, the more his moveset becomes limited.

It seems like all his moveset really is now, are clotheslines, running dropkicks, Samoan drops and the Superman Punch and Spear.

Or am I just imaging that? :-\

[XL]

Cena has not won 14 PPV matches in a row. He's won his last 14 matches on PPV & TV.

[Jura]

I don't even know why they're even pushing Reigns to be the top guy. I like him, but only a select few throughout history have had that "it factor" to be THE guy in WWE, and as far as I can see, Reigns doesn't have it.

I agree. Daniel Bryan is a far better choice and they should stick with him. I think WWE itself is jumping on any bandwagon that might pay off unless Vince has another opinion. For example there was that whole Ryback next big superstar thing and we saw what happened. Out of the three Shield members I actually think Seth Rollins could become the bigger superstar.

[XL]

I get "Bray had to lose because it's gonna be a 3 month long feud and they need to stretch it out." So just... don't make it a 3 month long feud. Or find a way not to have them have a match right off the bat like I mentioned above. Or simply find a way to keep the feud going the next night on Raw anyway if you're intent on stretching it out. Not every feud needs to have both guys lose a match to make them look even. No one ends up looking like a threat and it doesn't get anyone over.

This. x 1000.

They seem to have lost this ability. They knew how to do it. I know this because I'm watching 97-98 Raw. The best example of this is Kane, who debuted in October and didn't have the big payoff match with Taker until 6 months later. Imagine if they'd done a bunch of non-finishes or traded victories straight out of the gate?

The other thing that really stood out whilst watching the build to Mania 14 is just how little the top guys actually had matches. Austin had 3 TV matches between the start of 98 and winning the title in March. More often than not he'd have one, maybe 2 matches between PPVs. I suppose this made it a big(ger) deal when he did get in the ring. Now you have a guy like Orton who wrestles twice a week most weeks.

[Savio]

Austins body was kinda fucked though right?

[#1-norm-fan]

This. x 1000.

They seem to have lost this ability. They knew how to do it. I know this because I'm watching 97-98 Raw. The best example of this is Kane, who debuted in October and didn't have the big payoff match with Taker until 6 months later. Imagine if they'd done a bunch of non-finishes or traded victories straight out of the gate?

The other thing that really stood out whilst watching the build to Mania 14 is just how little the top guys actually had matches. Austin had 3 TV matches between the start of 98 and winning the title in March. More often than not he'd have one, maybe 2 matches between PPVs. I suppose this made it a big(ger) deal when he did get in the ring. Now you have a guy like Orton who wrestles twice a week most weeks.

Yeah, I've been high on the idea of less TV matches for the major players for a while. It makes PPVs AND certain wrestlers actually seem like a big deal by not having your main event guys wrestle each other, and more importantly lose constantly. They'd need two things though. They'd need to actually bring the IC Title up to where it is an actual attraction again and can draw and headline TV shows (maybe not the last segment but the feature match) and they'd need writers who can build compelling storylines that don't involve "throw them in a match, have a DQ, therefore heat". They could do it with Austin because they had both of those things working for them.

[Shadrick]

Yeah, I've been high on the idea of less TV matches for the major players for a while. It makes PPVs AND certain wrestlers actually seem like a big deal by not having your main event guys wrestle each other, and more importantly lose constantly. They'd need two things though. They'd need to actually bring the IC Title up to where it is an actual attraction again and can draw and headline TV shows (maybe not the last segment but the feature match) and they'd need writers who can build compelling storylines that don't involve "throw them in a match, have a DQ, therefore heat". They could do it with Austin because they had both of those things working for them.

100% agree with everything in this post. Wish the midcard titles meant more like they once did. Also, would love to not have certain guys touch before PPV's.

[XL]

Austins body was kinda fucked though right?

At this point, I don't think so.

HBK had the back injury that kept him out of action Rumble to Mania and the subsequent 4 years. Taker was also gone from Rumble to about 2 weeks prior to Mania.

It's moot, anyway. The point is they can, or at least they used to be able to, continue a story without having the guys wrestle every week. They throw away potentially good matches (see Reigns vs. Rusev) on free TV, end it in a DQ or some kind of breakdown so that there's no definite ending and they can book the match again. Such a waste.

I honestly think they don't know how to pace a story anymore. Look at this Woods/Big E/Kofi thing. Woods approaches E and Kofi on Raw, the next night they're a fully formed unit. Could they not have drawn it out a little? Have Woods trying to get them on side over the course of a few weeks, appearing at ringside when the lose with a "see" face, have him help them win in a way of saying "things are better with me around". Give Kofi and E some segments backstage where they're talking it through, have one of them more unsure than the other, a little bit of character development and an opportunity to work on their promo skills. Then you have the group officially come together. Not everything has to happen in the ring/in a match.

[Hanso Amore]

They also didnt have 9 hours of TV to fill in the period you are talking about.

[Hanso Amore]

So its really apples to oranges.

[XL]

9 hours!? 3 for Raw, 2 for SmackDown. You can't really count Main Event or NXT. Even if you did, that's 7 hours, not 9.

They have a MASSIVE roster that they actively choose not to use. If you built interesting angles/storylines/feuds/characters with guys like Ryder, Sandow, Ziggler, Cesaro or the bunch of guys they let go like Mahal, JTG & McIntyre they wouldn't need to pad out each card with repetitive and/or repeat matches with the same handful of guys.

[XL]

In fact, having more TV time makes it even more inexcusable that they feel the need to rush everything. Taking that Woods/E/Kofi example, they've gone from point A-Z in the span of 2 shows - one of which is a C show that only a fraction of the audience watch. Surely, if they have all this time to fill they should be looking to slow some stuff down?