Who Did Cesaro Piss Off?

[Corkscrewed]

Sorry if this has been covered already. Don't pay quite as much attention as I used to, but wasn't Cesaro over like crazy a couple of months ago, on a massive push, swinging the fuck out of everyone, and all of the sudden, he's getting the Damien Sandow treatment without the funny costumes.

...did he see Stephanie in the shower or something? Just curious.

[Shadrick]

Nah he's lost a few matches, but he's not on Sandow treatment...


...yet....

[drave]

He had a match with Cena a few weeks ago. Ever since then.......

So he is on Sandow Drive, soon to pull in to 123 Jobber Ave where he shall remain until his future endeavors.

All of this makes me sad.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Just circling around just like his Cesaro Swing. He's in line for a push once Roman Reigns is fully established. Just bad timing along with a lateral heel to heel move at WrestleMania that seemed like it was going to go somewhere but didn't. Being a Paul Heyman guy right now just means you are being used to get Paul on TV when Brock isn't there.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I can see Sandow being in the 2015 future endeavour class :( So much potential down the drain, I would ask the same question, who did he piss off?

I remember it happening to MVP after he insulted people during a piss test. Career gone!

Heyman and Austin had a podcast about what happened with Sandow and Austin seems to think it was the pink tights that did Damien in. That he should have said to management that these are the shits and they lost respect for him by not standing up to them.

[Big Vic]

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE SummerSlam '14 (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/summerslam-3914-18748.html)
Aug 17th 2014</td><td width="22%">Rob Van Dam (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/rob-van-dam-338.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>dark
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-taping-18685.html)
Aug 12th 2014</td><td width="22%">Dean Ambrose (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/dean-ambrose-3069.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw: Hulk Hogan's Birthday Celebration (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-hulk-hogan39s-birthday-celebration-18664.html)
Aug 11th 2014</td><td width="22%">Jack Swagger (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/jack-swagger-3410.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (sub)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/b2f4dcff43au.gif WWE WWE Live (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-18625.html)
Aug 9th 2014</td><td width="22%">Sheamus (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html) (c)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Rob Van Dam (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/rob-van-dam-338.html), Cesaro</td><td>triple-threat</td><td>WWE United States Championship
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/b2f4dcff43au.gif WWE WWE Live (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-18612.html)
Aug 8th 2014</td><td width="22%">Sheamus (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html) (c)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>
</td><td>WWE United States Championship
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/b2f4dcff43au.gif WWE WWE Live (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-18606.html)
Aug 7th 2014</td><td width="22%">Sheamus (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html) (c)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro, Rob Van Dam (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/rob-van-dam-338.html)</td><td>triple-threat</td><td>WWE United States Championship
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-18566.html)
Aug 4th 2014</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/dolph-ziggler-450.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif NXT TV Taping #113 (http://profightdb.com/cards/nxt/tv-taping-113-18487.html)
Jul 31st 2014</td><td width="22%">The Big Show (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-big-show-283.html)</td><td width="9%">def. </td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>dark
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-taping-18451.html)
Jul 29th 2014</td><td width="22%">Jack Swagger (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/jack-swagger-3410.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (sub)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-18432.html)
Jul 28th 2014</td><td width="22%">John Cena (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/john-cena-350.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-taping-18303.html)
Jul 22nd 2014</td><td width="22%">Dean Ambrose (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/dean-ambrose-3069.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Cesaro</td><td>no disqualification</td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Hanso Amore]

He became a major star at Wrestlemania, then was subsequently pushed back down to make room for other people. He wasnt buried or squashed but t he lack of focus hurt him.

Coming out of Wrestlemania it was so bright. He won a huge gimmick match with an epic moment that should in theory be a highlight for years to come. Then he had a built in easy feud with Jack Swagger and was a logicial face turn.

The whole time he was with Heyman was just puzzling and made little sense. And it never really went anywhere.

Its not too late to turn it around it just never made sense to have a guy who was white hot in April just float through the whole summer. I think Reigns could have had the same ascent he had this summer even with a continued Cesaro push. He should have feuded wit h Swagger then Rusev. Or even Swagger t hen Orton.

[EzekielKane]

Cesaro is an instant classic I don't think anything WWE can do will keep him down.

[Big Vic]

I think Heyman gave Axel more of a boost, Axel would have never been IC champ if not for Heyman.


....he also beat HHH twice in one night :shifty:.....

[DrCrawford]

I really wish Cesaro had Reigns push. Still can't get behind Reigns.

[XL]

Cesaro was in line for a push but they then decided they wanted to go full force with establishing Reigns. They put Cesaro with Heyman to kill his face push, then slowly had him lose, a lot. The heat went away, the risk of a face turn averted, so they moved Heyman away from Cesaro with very little fanfare. Heyman was basically a tactic to dampen the fire of Cesaro.

That they couldn't slowly promote Cesaro while simultaneously strapping a rocket to Reigns is indicative of WWE's approach to building talent.

I guess they think they can just turn the heat up for Cesaro whenever they like, rather than striking when the proverbial iron is hot.

[Emperor Smeat]

Nobody and was a mix of what XL said about Reigns having top priority and WWE's typical habit of suddenly losing interest in the middle of a push.

The pairing with Heyman wouldn't have been a problem had they stuck with the original plans and not just as a cheap way to keep Lesnar as the main focus.

[XL]

I think that was the original plan; to take the heat away from Cesaro.

[Nowhere Man]

Hopefully Cesaro being put on the back-burner doesn't mean they're intentionally trying to make people lose interest in him, but it's seriously disappointing that WWE is so reluctant to let people get over organically. Especially because people who get the forced, management-backed push like Roman Reigns (or Ryback before him, to name one of many) tend to fizzle out as soon as they reach their peak.

I think Cesaro's got a good long career ahead of him as the "go have a really good match with the guy we're actually interested in pushing" utility wrestler, but it's a shame they don't seem to want to take him any further than that.



On a side note, holy shit, Corky, how long have you been back?!

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

he pissed me off, and I have lots of clout with the McMahons and Levesques

[loopydate]

On a side note, holy shit, Corky, how long have you been back?!

[Bad News Gertner]

Hopefully Cesaro being put on the back-burner doesn't mean they're intentionally trying to make people lose interest in him, but it's seriously disappointing that WWE is so reluctant to let people get over organically. Especially because people who get the forced, management-backed push like Roman Reigns (or Ryback before him, to name one of many) tend to fizzle out as soon as they reach their peak.

I think Cesaro's got a good long career ahead of him as the "go have a really good match with the guy we're actually interested in pushing" utility wrestler, but it's a shame they don't seem to want to take him any further than that.



On a side note, holy shit, Corky, how long have you been back?!

Lol Ryback lost 8 ppv matches in a row, I'd hardly call that "management backed"

[Theo Dious]

Boy howdy I wonder who Cena pissed off to get buried like that last night.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Boy howdy I wonder who Cena pissed off to get buried like that last night.

It doesn’t take much to piss off and light a fire under Brock. :shifty:

[XL]

Hopefully Cesaro being put on the back-burner doesn't mean they're intentionally trying to make people lose interest in him, but it's seriously disappointing that WWE is so reluctant to let people get over organically. Especially because people who get the forced, management-backed push like Roman Reigns (or Ryback before him, to name one of many) tend to fizzle out as soon as they reach their peak.

I think Cesaro's got a good long career ahead of him as the "go have a really good match with the guy we're actually interested in pushing" utility wrestler, but it's a shame they don't seem to want to take him any further than that.



On a side note, holy shit, Corky, how long have you been back?!
Well now that Christian isn't really around...

[Corkscrewed]

On a side note, holy shit, Corky, how long have you been back?!
I came back around WM, then lurked, then posted again. But I've been lurking. :wave:

I guess I'm confused because recent WWE writing seems to have been much better than several years ago, which was when I started tapering off my attention. The buildup to WrestleMania brought me back, because I was impressed with the multiple quality storylines being juggled (plus Daniel Bryan's push was epic). So to see this was just odd.

Oh well. What else have I missed in the past three or six years? lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm about as sad as I am for Cesaro as I am happy for Dean Ambrose right now.

Coming out of WrestleMania XXX, it was pretty obvious what the immediate route should have been for Cesaro: A match with Jack Swagger at Extreme Rules. Next to Daniel Bryan fighting Kane and Evolution taking on The Shield (rivalries that I think should have come together for that PPV), it was probably the most obvious and pressing match. Instead the WWE looked like they weren't going to do it, because Cesaro was still technically a heel. Then RVD came back randomly and was inserted into things.

Cesaro should have beaten Swagger at Extreme Rules and then moved onto a program with someone like Sheamus at Payback. That did happen, but I don't think it should have had the US Title involved. Cesaro winning the US Title at that point wouldn't have helped him, but losing to Sheamus stunted his growth too. In Chicago, Sheamus would have been just booed enough to make a heel victory for Cesaro exciting. If they absolutely needed to go with Sheamus as US Champion, perhaps Payback could have been the perfect time to do Cesaro vs. RVD? Cesaro could have beaten Van Dam in a crowd that would have eaten up Heyman's history with Van Dam.

The WWE had the perfect chance to make Cesaro a "cool heel." A rough, vicious competitor who oozes credibility and has a stoic charisma. Backed by Heyman, a mouthpiece that could sell that credibility and charisma, you have a lot of "cool" qualities, but also a worminess that a confident Cesaro wouldn't have. Brock Lesnar in 2002 would have been the perfect way to handle the duo.

I can't imagine it was entirely Heyman's idea to focus exclusively on Brock Lesnar during the duo's time together. For example, on the RAW after WrestleMania in a backstage segment, Heyman called Cesaro the next WWE World Heavyweight Champion. It then became "top tier player." It then became "BROCK LESNAR!" all the time.

When the Cesaro/Heyman arrangement ended, I got a little worried, because Cesaro now had no one to talk for him. He was basically where he was when he wasn't working with Heyman on his own. The losses to Ambrose and Cena didn't worry me, because they are top stars working huge SummerSlam programs, but the loss to Van Dam at SummerSlam? Why? I get that it was the Kickoff show and RVD is a face and they may have wanted to pop the audience -- but couldn't Cesaro have beaten RVD after a hard-fought back-and-forth match? I guess Cesaro then beat Swagger on RAW. But I think it would have been more effective if Cesaro was building momentum at the moment.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And that music? For fuck's sake...

[Bad News Gertner]

"Cool heels" are a big problem with wrestling today. It ruins every feud.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>His theme prior to joining the Real Americans was perfect. Not sure why they didn't give it back to him.</font>

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeaaaah, that rap theme with the Dean Malenko theme sample was amazing. Love that theme.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, this was pretty much perfect:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/U1JlToAuVhA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Mr. Nerfect]

What are the problems with cool heels, Gertner? Legit interested.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm guessing it's the fact that the crowd shouldn't be cheering heels. The whole point of being a heel is so that the crowd can get behind the idea of someone kicking your ass.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, people should be used to the idea that WWE can't build up midcarders anymore. Cesaro's situation shouldn't really be all that surprising. Every midcarder gets the "push for a month, forgotten for a while and repeat" treatment nowadays. Even with a shitload of TV time they can't push more than 4 or 5 people consistently. It's been that way for years.

Swagger's feud is over though meaning his month of looking strong is over so maybe Cesaro can get another month soon. Yay long term parity.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm guessing it's the fact that the crowd shouldn't be cheering heels. The whole point of being a heel is so that the crowd can get behind the idea of someone kicking your ass.

I agree that long-term you want people to pay money to see your heel beaten, but I don't think that having a heel, in the short-term, be cheered is necessarily a bad thing. You want people to buy merchandise and get into matches too. Cesaro is one of the few who can pull off being a bad guy, but being such a good wrestler that some people will cheer him and buy the t-shirt. He'd be the guy on the outside, the guy that the good guys respect (even if they don't like him) and that the fans want to see embrace his potential hero nature, but doesn't, because it's just so much fun being nasty and violent.

It'd be part of Cesaro's character. I thought that was the route they were going to go with his alignment with Paul Heyman. Yes, Heyman has some catchphrases and we all respect his contributions to the industry -- but he's the slimiest of slime-balls in kayfabe. Cesaro would have been the prize-fighter who just wanted to get in there, but Heyman would have been the one holding him back and reminding him that he doesn't fight for free. This would have all led to Cesaro eventually leaving Heyman's camp and going against Lesnar or something (providing Lesnar stuck around post-WrestleMania).

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Noid you are such a scamp, I love you.

[Bad News Gertner]

What are the problems with cool heels, Gertner? Legit interested.

How are you ever going to get a face over against a "cool heel"? It's completely counter-productive.

[Shisen Kopf]

What are the problems with cool heels, Gertner? Legit interested.

I spit in the face of people who don't want to be cool. Gertner is a NERD!

[Anybody Thrilla]

Gertner's right. You all loved the nWo, right? Well, you weren't supposed to. They were 'cool heels' up against a bunch of WCW dweebs. Don't get me wrong, it was a lot of fun...but the heel/face dynamic wasn't really what it was supposed to be.

[Big Vic]

I lost all respect for Matt Striker when he said Black and White was cooler than the Wolfpac

[Mr. Nerfect]

How are you ever going to get a face over against a "cool heel"? It's completely counter-productive.

Through story-telling and character development? By having the face he is against overcome his cockiness or ruthless onslaught? Perhaps the idea is to get Cesaro over in the long-term, and that the state of being a bad guy is only the build to the eventual turn?

For example, what works better?

A) A match with Kofi Kingston where Cesaro does his giant swing, hits his usual uppercuts, and Kofi looks like a champion for absorbing that punishment and still fighting back in a match that the fans are into.

B) A match where Cesaro works with mainly chinlocks, spits at children and then loses to a roll-up.

I've given hyperbolic examples, but that's what I'm talking about. It feels like they are trying to remove everything that helped Cesaro swell up and connect to the audience earlier this year. It'd be like telling Cesaro to stop doing impressive power shit because it gets too over. Maybe some guys should just be over?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm not suggesting that the line between heels and faces should always be blurred, mind you. I'm also not saying that heels should work unchained to try and get cheers in their matches despite being the bad guys. Heath Slater, for example, can do some really athletic stuff in the ring that he chooses not to because it wouldn't suit him being a heel. I just think that your occasional cool heel here and there can be the exception that proves the rule. Just like every babyface doesn't need to wear bright colors, kiss babies' heads and wave the American flag.

[Bad News Gertner]

A heel should be a cowardly bitch of some form, an arrogant asshole or a bad ass monster motherfucker of some form.

Having a face go up against a "cool heel" is a waste of time. What can you possibly accomplish in that feud? The face is basically in a no win situation.

[Shisen Kopf]

http://thebrotherhoodofevilgeeks.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/nerds-3.jpg

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I lost all respect for Matt Striker when he said Black and White was cooler than the Wolfpac

Red and Black Sting was pretty fucking stupid dude.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Black and white WAS cooler than the wolfpac. HE WAS A ONE MAN WOLFPAC FOR FUCK SAKE.