You know what really sucks?

[Big Vic]

In the whole WWE we have 3 credible heels, Lesnar, Rollins and Rusev. (4 if you count HHH) One of those heels is a main event player who only works part time. WWE has been really bad a building top heels foreverrrrr.

I guess babyfaces push more merch though.

[XL]

How many credible faces are there? Cena, Reigns, Ambrose. Least it's an even amount.

[Volare]

The "Upper Midcard" goes on too long imo.

[Big Vic]

How many credible faces are there? Cena, Reigns, Ambrose. Least it's an even amount.
Daniel, Sheamus, Big show, and I'd say the Uso's are now.

[Ruien]

Orton?

[Big Vic]

Not really, he never wins big matches and always needed help from HHH for the past year.

[Emperor Smeat]

In the whole WWE we have 3 credible heels, Lesnar, Rollins and Rusev. (4 if you count HHH) One of those heels is a main event player who only works part time. WWE has been really bad a building top heels foreverrrrr.

I guess babyfaces push more merch though.

Problem is whenever it looks like they are building a credible heel, they just get feed to Cena or randomly get their push dropped for no real reason.

Same for faces outside of a handful who managed to become big names. WWE either just suddenly drops their push or turns them with no long term thought.

[Hanso Amore]

Not really, he never wins big matches and always needed help from HHH for the past year.

Riiiiiiiigggght

[Hanso Amore]

Not sure how Orton is not credible because he "needed HHH" but yet Rollins IS despite needing HHH and Kane

[Big Vic]

I get your point but he has been winning. Kinda like the HHH/Flair dynamic in 03

[Ruien]

Every heel that is not a monster cheats or has someone cheat for them so they can win. Orton is credible. He has been credible for years now.

[Savio]

He always loses though.

[ron the dial]

as #1-wwf-fan has stated many times, that last title run by orton really hurt him a lot. they made him look like a total bitch. i still think the guy is money, but it's hard to view him as a credible threat the way he's been booked over at least the past year.

[Rammsteinmad]

It doesn't matter if Orton always loses, (which he doesn't). He's a big name that can be called upon to headline a PPV if needed.

[Clerk]

I know what sucks.

Daniel Bryan
CM Punk
Brock Lesnar
Roman Reigns
Dean Ambrose

to name a few

[Savio]

It doesn't matter if Orton always loses, (which he doesn't). He's a big name that can be called upon to headline a PPV if needed.
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="chequered"><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown Taping (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-taping-18760.html)
Aug 19th 2014</td><td width="22%">Rob Van Dam (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/rob-van-dam-338.html)</td><td width="9%">draw (DCO)</td><td width="22%">Randy Orton</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-18755.html)
Aug 18th 2014</td><td width="22%">Rob Van Dam (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/rob-van-dam-338.html) & Roman Reigns (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html) & Sheamus (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Curtis Axel (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/curtis-axel-3847.html) & Randy Orton & Ryback (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td>6-person tag</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE SummerSlam '14 (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/summerslam-3914-18748.html)
Aug 17th 2014</td><td width="22%">Roman Reigns (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Randy Orton</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw: Hulk Hogan's Birthday Celebration (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-hulk-hogan39s-birthday-celebration-18664.html)
Aug 11th 2014</td><td width="22%">Randy Orton</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Sheamus (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html)</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown Taping (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-taping-18586.html)
Aug 5th 2014</td><td width="22%">Dean Ambrose (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/dean-ambrose-3069.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (DQ)</td><td width="22%">Randy Orton</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-18566.html)
Aug 4th 2014</td><td width="22%">Dean Ambrose (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/dean-ambrose-3069.html) & Roman Reigns (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html) & The Big Show (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-big-show-283.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Bray Wyatt (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/bray-wyatt-6287.html) & Randy Orton & Seth Rollins (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/seth-rollins-3328.html)</td><td>dark
6-person tag</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-18293.html)
Jul 21st 2014</td><td width="22%">Roman Reigns (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Kane (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/kane-197.html) & Randy Orton</td><td>handicap tag</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Battleground '14 (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/battleground-3914-18278.html)
Jul 20th 2014</td><td width="22%">John Cena (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/john-cena-350.html) (c)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Kane (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/kane-197.html), Randy Orton, Roman Reigns (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html)</td><td>fatal 4-way</td><td>WWE World Heavyweight Championship
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-18258.html)
Jul 14th 2014</td><td width="22%">John Cena (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/john-cena-350.html) & Roman Reigns (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (DQ)</td><td width="22%">Kane (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/kane-197.html) & Randy Orton & Seth Rollins (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/seth-rollins-3328.html)</td><td>handicap tag</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://www.profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Summer Heatwave Tour (http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwe/summer-heatwave-tour-18247.html)
Jul 12th 2014</td><td width="22%">Chris Jericho (http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/chris-jericho-296.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Randy Orton</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Hanso Amore]

It's a shame piper lost every match to hogan, really killed his main event status

[road doggy dogg]

hey guys I hear wrestler wins/losses matter at all in 2014

confirm/deny please

[Anybody Thrilla]

Orton is definitely a credible heel. Second only to Lesnar, I'd say. He may not be winning a ton right now, but no one would be shocked by him suddenly winning the title.

[The Condor]

Is Bo Dallas doing well as a heel? I'm in and out of the product currently, but he gets a reaction like he's supposed to.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

It's a shame piper lost every match to hogan, really killed his main event status

In WCW he did nothing but beat Hogan.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

hey guys I hear wrestler wins/losses matter at all in 2014

confirm/deny please

Yes and No. Established stars losing or winning doesn't really matter. People know they are stars they just need the spot/opportunity to shine. Randy's win/loss record doesn't mean shit.

Debuting stars it sort of does matter because it shows how much confidence the WWE has in them. Bo Dallas losing seemed to have de-railed him a bit until getting into this feud with Swagger that is about to start.

Swagger losing to Rusev did seem to de-rail him because he was never really established as a face.

[Lock Jaw]

Is Bo Dallas doing well as a heel? I'm in and out of the product currently, but he gets a reaction like he's supposed to.

Bo Dallas actually usually gets a bit of a pop from the crowd.

[Big Vic]

If wrestling loses didn't matter I wouldn't hear people complaining about Ziggler losses every other week.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

They did. It's probably why he's the IC champion now.

[Savio]

Orton is definitely a credible heel. Second only to Lesnar, I'd say. He may not be winning a ton right now, but no one would be shocked by him suddenly winning the title.
A far distant second maybe, only because Rusev and Rollins are midcard. He's probably 3rd behind HHH.

[Lock Jaw]

4th behind Stephanie McMahon

[Emperor Smeat]

Orton is still credible as a heel with his feud against Bryan as a good example.

The Authority flip flopping a lot and being made to look like a big whiner hurt him more than the constant losing. When neither occurred at times, he looked like a legit threat to Bryan and had the crowd really hating him.

[mike adamle]

5th behind Paige

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

behind Paige... :naughty:

[#1-norm-fan]

It's a shame piper lost every match to hogan, really killed his main event status

Yeah, there's a big difference between losing every match to the biggest star of all time and losing pretty much every match you compete in including losing cleanly to guys like Kofi Kingston and Cesaro...

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, the idea that wins and losses don't matter in a form of entertainment where everything leads to matches that are sold on who is going to win and who is going to lose is pretty retarded. Just sayin'.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Randy Orton could become credible again in one second, but I agree that his current chickenshit heel persona does more to hurt him than help him. And the guys he gets in the ring with. Seth Rollins at least seems to carry himself with an air of arrogant confidence. Orton tells us he is the best, but has done little to prove it since he beat John Cena cleanly at TLC.

I really think that a face turn would freshen him up and allow him to move some merchandise for the company and make more stars than he can in his current heel role.

Cesaro could have been that credible heel too, but they seem to want to use him in an upper mid-card enhancement role. Cesaro's become the new Jack Swagger or Alberto Del Rio, two more heels that could have been credible if they weren't thrown under the "build random faces' credibility bus" as frequently as they were.

Big Show and Mark Henry could be turned and made instantly credible. The ring work wouldn't be as great as it would be if you had a heel Chris Jericho running around, but their size makes it easy. The Wyatt Family are also proving that they can stay over without wins and losses. I'm fairly confident Bray is going to come out of all this a credible threat to the World Title any time they need him to be. In fact, I think the same could be said for Harper, and perhaps even eventually Rowan.