View Full Version : The Trial Of Eric Bischoff (Podcast Question)
So, for this week's Squared Circle Gazette Radio, we're returning to our "Court Case" format that we did in the past for one of our most popular shows (The Trial of Triple H), and this time putting Eric Bischoff under the gun.
We have a prosecution, a defence and judge in place - the charge against Bischoff is that he's the person most responsible for the death of WCW (via malpractice and negligence). So in terms of feedback it's simple - where do you stand on that specific question, and on what grounds?
As always, the best feedback will be read on the show and become part of the debate. So whaddya think - is Bischoff most responsible?
Destor
10-27-2014, 05:44 AM
Considering that the only reason WCW died is because Bischoff couldnt get a time slot and at the time of its collapse its ratings were still strong compared to other cable programming the only answer is no...
The only blame is at the AoL merger...short debate...go team!
The logo change. That's when WCW (wCw) died.
I'm on the prosecution for this one, so it's a challenge, but putting the blame on the merger is so bogus.
Kevin Sullivan's role in the whole thing went unnoticed IMO, 14 of their top guys asked for their release because of him, and of course The Radicalz got theirs.
Destor
10-27-2014, 08:18 AM
I'm on the prosecution for this one, so it's a challenge, but putting the blame on the merger is so bogus.
No its a legitimate fact. Had they been willing to keep it on air WCW would have stayed around. I dont think you realize what the average TV draws in a week. The show was doing very well, they just didnt want thew stigma of a "rasslin" show.
screech
10-27-2014, 08:27 AM
Kevin Sullivan's role in the whole thing went unnoticed IMO, 14 of their top guys asked for their release because of him, and of course The Radicalz got theirs.
I'm missing something here. Care to elaborate?
Innovator
10-27-2014, 10:12 AM
Kevin Sullivan was heading a committee that took the book over from Russo in January of 2000. Benoit didn't want any part of that, with the whole Woman thing. He and others saw the writing on the wall and asked for their releases, which they got.
Hanso Amore
10-27-2014, 01:50 PM
Right. the TNT director that cancelled nitro did it not at all based on profit/loss of WCW it did it because it didnt want Wrestling in its network.
Right. the TNT director that cancelled nitro did it not at all based on profit/loss of WCW it did it because it didnt want Wrestling in its network.
Exactly. Its too easy, and if they still were drawing $250 million of revenue like they did in 98, with ratings that high, I find it hard to believe they'd want them off the network.
Emperor Smeat
10-27-2014, 03:38 PM
Disagree. Would argue Hogan or the AOL-Time Warner merger were bigger reasons in the end. Hogan mostly because of the vast amount of politicking he did while the merger eventually lead to a new boss at the time who wanted nothing to do with wrestling.
Bischoff's main problems were relying way too much on the nWo storyline and wanting to spend his way out of any situation (good or bad) than develop things for the long term. He did help kill off WCW but wasn't the main guy responsible.
Exactly. Its too easy, and if they still were drawing $250 million of revenue like they did in 98, with ratings that high, I find it hard to believe they'd want them off the network.
Wasn't that same money burning up as fast as they made it?
Impeccable
10-27-2014, 04:43 PM
Firstly, I just listened to your "Was the Invasion doomed to Fail" podcast, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Never caught you guys before, but will now download each episode. Great work.
On topic now, with Bischoff, I'm not sure what else he was supposed to do. He was tasked with making WCW compete with a juggernaut. The only way he could do that is to sign top guys with what he believed was a blank cheque book. In order to make them come, he had to promise guaranteed, mega-bucks contracts and also give creative control. He had to do that to sign them, and with those guys came egos and baggage. To compete, he needed them, and he needed them happy and had to pander to their needs, to the detriment to the rest of his business.
Had Eric's brief been to create a stable, financially well run company, creating stars and becoming sustainable, I am sure that he would have done so, but that was not his brief. Ted wanted to compete, nothing more. We see it in other sports teams who sink cash into trying to compete and then self imploding later.
Had Eric been given time (I believe WCW had been burning through bookers and executives, so he must have felt pressured) he would have been able to take it much slower.
SlickyTrickyDamon
10-27-2014, 05:38 PM
1997 Marlins. They won it all and then fell off the face of the planet.
DAMN iNATOR
10-27-2014, 07:06 PM
Completely off-topic, but I just wanted to say that upon reading the thread title, I thought this was about the RAW "trial" in December 2005 which eventually culminated in his termination from WWE.
Hanso Amore
10-27-2014, 07:13 PM
You are not alone. I thought so too and thought it was such a random thread.
Hanso Amore
10-27-2014, 07:14 PM
Also seems like each of your so called topics are just gutter trash thoughts from a smarks head on the wrestlecrap forums. Is next weeks episode about cm punk having nuclear heat?
I will say no, definitely not.
Hanso Amore
10-27-2014, 07:22 PM
Is it about Sid shitting his pants?
Vastardikai
10-27-2014, 10:44 PM
Was it Eric Bischoff's idea to put the WCW Title on David Arquette? If no, I say 'Not Guilty.'
He's guilty of being an accessory, but the gun wasn't in his hand. His mistakes were, in no particular order:
He created a killer storyline that he didn't know how to end.
He was about the only guy who didn't see potential in Steve Austin
Kept people in a predetermined 'spot' with no regard to what they were doing or capable of.
Pushing Ernest Miller over much more deserving talent
Blood Runs Cold
Allowing himself to be run over by the likes of Hogan, Nash, etc.
Crippla
10-28-2014, 12:22 AM
No he is prob one of the least responsible
SlickyTrickyDamon
10-28-2014, 04:06 AM
I still say not guilty. He made Raw up their game by making WCW more than a southern-regional company. WCWs other managment ruined it by not having a great business structure. Bischoff made a great story but nobody knew how to capitalize on it.
AOL Time Warner killed WCW not Bischoff. The money from the PPVs going to Turner Home Entertainment and not WCW killed WCW. The merchandising department not knowing that the nWo doesn't work for them killed WCW. Ted Turner wanting another prime time show killed WCW. So many things killed WCW but none were really Bischoff's fault when you actually take an objective look at it.
If the WWE had the idea of the nWo they would all be billionaires right now. They had the structure to make something great but WCW didn't. Don't think it was Bischoffs job to handle everything like that. He just produced the TV.
Hanso Amore
10-28-2014, 08:25 AM
Lol come on. Blood runs cold cost not money, wasn't that big of a story, didn't last long, was over during their run at the top, and actually drew some fans in.
Dafuq?
Vastardikai
10-28-2014, 09:42 AM
I wonder how much the 6 months of Glacier introductory promos cost.
Emperor Smeat
10-28-2014, 06:08 PM
I wonder how much the 6 months of Glacier introductory promos cost.
Not sure about debut hype stuff but it did cost WCW around $500,000 for his debut month and a big reason why almost everything for his entrance got axed very quickly.
Think the Death of WCW book revealed what the final cost for his push ended up being.
Crippla
10-28-2014, 08:03 PM
lol Glacier what a waste
Bad News Gertner
10-28-2014, 09:00 PM
WCW was dead in the water regardless of what Bischoff did. They created basically a shooting star. It was going to be beautiful and burn bright for a short period of time, but eventually it was going to die out. It was a television network that had a wrestling show vs a company whose sole focus was wrestling. WCW was basically Seinfeld and the WWE was ESPN.
Bad News Gertner
10-28-2014, 09:01 PM
Also seems like each of your so called topics are just gutter trash thoughts from a smarks head on the wrestlecrap forums. Is next weeks episode about cm punk having nuclear heat?
I listen to their show frequently and everyone knows how much I hate snobby smarks. It's actually a good listen.
Theo Dious
10-28-2014, 09:26 PM
If WCW had been making money in 2001 like they were a few years prior AOL/TW wouldn't have cancelled it. WCW had run for years under people who didn't care for wrestling at all but kept it running because of the money it made. AOL/TW made the final decision but other people made it the right one at that time.
As far as whether Bischoff killed it, really the answer is no. He injected life into a languishing product and wasn't able to sustain that new life long-term. His only ideas involved bringing in recognized talent, and when he ran out of said talent he had nothing left. The only lasting stars that were truly made after Bischoff took the reins were Goldberg, who's success and popularity were largely a fluke, and DDP, who dragged himself up into that spot with the help of a few friends despite management's objections. Booker T and Scott Steiner simply got popularity boosts after years of being successful tag team guys and gained main event status due to a vacuum above them, and Jarrett during his World Title reigns was no more a star than he was as WWF Intercontinental Champion. Whoever decided to give Bischoff as much free run as they did, and whoever decided that the likes of Russo and Ferrara could put on an A+ show are really the ones to blame. You don't blame a bunch of monkeys for throwing their shit around the Lourve if you set them free in it.
Also Goldberg fucking killed off the nWo return angle following the Fingerpoke of Doom by trying to put his hand through a fucking windshield. What a complete ass. WCW might have had a chance if that hadn't happened.
Theo Dious
10-28-2014, 09:26 PM
I wonder how much the 6 months of Glacier introductory promos cost.
Roughly the gross national product of Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Panama combined.
Theo Dious
10-28-2014, 09:27 PM
Oh yeah and thanks for the mention on the last show. :wave:
Ol Dirty Dastard
10-29-2014, 10:00 PM
Bischoff was obviously a really smart and ambitious guy who capitalized on a few lucky bounces and helped make something special. He's also an ass and made some bad decisions. I think he's done very well for himself if you look at his body of work, but he definitely at the very least contributed greatly to the downfall of the company. McMahon has done smart things to help build the business and has also almost killed the business with some god awful decisions, he just won at the end of the day.
loopydate
10-30-2014, 02:57 PM
I had never listened to this 'cast before today. I'm now up to episode 5. This is tremendous. Nicely done!
DAMN iNATOR
10-30-2014, 03:09 PM
Bischoff was obviously a really smart and ambitious guy who capitalized on a few lucky bounces and helped make something special. He's also an ass and made some bad decisions. I think he's done very well for himself if you look at his body of work, but he definitely at the very least contributed greatly to the downfall of the company. McMahon has done smart things to help build the business and has also almost killed the business with some god awful decisions, he just won at the end of the day.
http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1168589066l/35491.jpg
of course he's not. Without getting into who was responsible for the majority of the downfall (something I also don't think Bischoff can be blamed for), never mind the ultimate demise, the simple fact is there was an agreed deal by all parties and papers signed for Bischoff and his investors to buy WCW. Bischoff goes off on a family holiday knowing his life is about to become hectic running a full time wrestling company again and Time Warner pull the rug out by taking all wrestling programming off the air rendering the deal worthless. These events alone show Bischoff obviously isn't the most responsible. "WCW" killed WCW, "WCW" being the guys upstairs with all of the real power. Fuck, Bischoff was the only one trying to save WCW.
loopydate
10-31-2014, 10:05 AM
^ this
Can you imagine how different the landscape would have been if AOL/TW had sold WCW to Fusient?
Theo Dious
10-31-2014, 11:09 AM
I doubt there would be much difference, except that there would likely be no TNA and WCW would be the punchline of all wrestling jokes.
SlickyTrickyDamon
10-31-2014, 04:58 PM
Will there be a poll for a jury and can Vince Russo set up this pole?
Bad News Gertner
10-31-2014, 08:36 PM
Kevin Sullivan was heading a committee that took the book over from Russo in January of 2000. Benoit didn't want any part of that, with the whole Woman thing. He and others saw the writing on the wall and asked for their releases, which they got.
To be fair, Sullivan was booking when he and Benoit feuded while this was going on, and put Benoit over in an awesome match.
SlickyTrickyDamon
10-31-2014, 08:42 PM
Who did more to grow WCW than Bischoff? Nobody. End of story. It's pretty stupid that there has to be a full podcast on an open and shut issue. You guys just must like hearing your own voice to have a stupid topics like these trials.
The last episode about the Invasion was pretty good though.
Ol Dirty Dastard
10-31-2014, 10:02 PM
To be fair, Sullivan was booking when he and Benoit feuded while this was going on, and put Benoit over in an awesome match.
You love your Kevin Sullivan more than you hate your Bret Hart.
Bad News Gertner
11-01-2014, 01:03 AM
Lol I love me some Kevin Sullivan
Who did more to grow WCW than Bischoff? Nobody. End of story. It's pretty stupid that there has to be a full podcast on an open and shut issue. You guys just must like hearing your own voice to have a stupid topics like these trials.
The last episode about the Invasion was pretty good though.
Bischoff did do more to grow it. And by the time he was done WCW was a firm number 2, they'd run off almost every potential new star they had, handed out the contracts that sapped resources completely, and the company was on its way to losing $15 million in 1999 (which it did). Oh, and he was part of the 2000 Russo comeback of doom that burned through so much money that the parent company, which only two years earlier wanted twice as much first run programming because they were so profitable, wanted them the fuck off the books.
No other network wanted a part of it because the brand was dead, and that's what killed it in the end. Russo was a massive part, but to say Bischoff isn't at least a major part of the ultimate demise is ignorant to reality.
Ruien
11-01-2014, 08:51 AM
What STD is saying is without Eric the WCW would not have even been in a spot to collapse. He is the one who made it grow into the success it was.
Absolutely, and he deserves a shit ton of credit for it.
Ol Dirty Dastard
11-01-2014, 09:12 AM
Bischoff was obviously a really smart and ambitious guy who capitalized on a few lucky bounces and helped make something special. He's also an ass and made some bad decisions. I think he's done very well for himself if you look at his body of work, but he definitely at the very least contributed greatly to the downfall of the company. McMahon has done smart things to help build the business and has also almost killed the business with some god awful decisions, he just won at the end of the day.
Bischoff did do more to grow it. And by the time he was done WCW was a firm number 2, they'd run off almost every potential new star they had, handed out the contracts that sapped resources completely, and the company was on its way to losing $15 million in 1999 (which it did). Oh, and he was part of the 2000 Russo comeback of doom that burned through so much money that the parent company, which only two years earlier wanted twice as much first run programming because they were so profitable, wanted them the fuck off the books.
No other network wanted a part of it because the brand was dead, and that's what killed it in the end. Russo was a massive part, but to say Bischoff isn't at least a major part of the ultimate demise is ignorant to reality.
he was a major part yes but I'm not sure how much blame can really be given to him for his actions since for the majority of the time he was basically responsible for everything/was running the ship on his own/was essentially in over his head, especially once Thunder was thrust upon him and the bigwigs started messing with the numbers. As for the money, he wasn't the one signing the cheques. Your "charge" was that he was the most responsible for the death of WCW. And whilst no matter what anybody thinks of his actions, I think they're somewhat understandable, many think stupid, short-sighted etc, the only real answer is that he isn't. WCW had their strings cut and were hanging by a thread the moment the merger was completed and Ted Turner essentially became an honorary figure with no power, WCW died the day Kellner, who didn't have a care, a clue nor pretended to have any affinity or understanding of pro wrestling, was basically given Turner's job. That's the most responsible person for the death of WCW.
Dukelorange
11-02-2014, 06:29 PM
There is plenty of blame to go around...
After a one week delay, we finally have the Trial of Eric Bischoff. After taking feedback from here, there and everywhere, the prosecution and defence teams do their damndest to convince the judge that Eric Bischoff is the element most responsible for the demise of World Championship Wrestling. Talking Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, atrocious television, ridiculous spending, Vince Russo, Mergers and more.
This show ended up being a lot of fun, and am interested to see what people make of the debate and the verdict. Check it out and let me know what you think.
http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/play/pf2qd7/SCGRadio19-TheTrialOfEricBischoff.mp3
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