John Cena's time at the top

[Ruien]

As we all know, John Cena spent a good chunk of time going over superstars on a monthly basis. He had a GOOD amount of time, somehow, playing the underdog each month when he would face monsters such as Kane, Khali, and Umaga. As we also know, the majority of the IWC was sick and bored of watching Cena overcome the odds.

At what point was enough for you where you wanted Cena to just lose to see a change of pace OR have Cena lose to someone and let them have a run at the top?

For me, I wish Edge would have had a longer title run after he cashed in the MITB. Would have loved for Edge to make a alliance with someone, maybe Umaga, to help beat Cena at the following pay per view. This would have allowed Cena to go feud with Umaga and break away from the belt until Mania or even a few months after Mania.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Think my breaking point (no pun intended) was once he'd held the WWE gold for more than a year in one run.

[Rammsteinmad]

Probably held out longer than most of you, but I remember loving it when Sheamus won the WWE title because of how obscure and different it was.

[Shisen Kopf]

Exactly 10 years ago, that's when.

www.tpwwforums.com/showpost.php?p=830839&postcount=8

John Cena be a total joke yo! he is crap, his gimmick is appealing to the lowest form of WWE fan, the white boy who thinks he is black. Absolutely stupid and his title is straight up retarded. It's not even good rap but then again rap hasn't been good since about 1996. Give me public enemy and NWA over this stupid crap that is out there today. Only way WWE could improve this situation if they bring in an old school rapper character to beat wigger Cena to a pulp.

[Vastardikai]

When he started dressing like a 10 year old boy.

[Jazzy Foot]

As we all know, John Cena spent a good chunk of time going over superstars on a monthly basis. He had a GOOD amount of time, somehow, playing the underdog each month when he would face monsters such as Kane, Khali, and Umaga. As we also know, the majority of the IWC was sick and bored of watching Cena overcome the odds.

At what point was enough for you where you wanted Cena to just lose to see a change of pace OR have Cena lose to someone and let them have a run at the top?

For me, I wish Edge would have had a longer title run after he cashed in the MITB. Would have loved for Edge to make a alliance with someone, maybe Umaga, to help beat Cena at the following pay per view. This would have allowed Cena to go feud with Umaga and break away from the belt until Mania or even a few months after Mania.


The reason why there has been little change of pace as you put and Cena still being the top draw is because the reality is, that he is only one few if not the only true top draw left in WWE. Daniel Bryan could be suggested as such but his physical health may sadly derail that juggernaut.

There really is nobody else at the moment:

- Undertaker only wrestles once a year and with the streak gone his aura has somewhat diminished and in any case he will be retiring soon.

- Bringing Sting in was a good move but proved to be nothing more than a nostalgia trip. The whole storyline was handled completely wrong from the outset with the limited appearances, lack of stellar buildup (who didn't want to see Sting mindgames on Triple H etc), putting the match 3rd on the WM card when it should have gone last and ultimately not giving Sting the win nor putting a stipulation on the match i.e. Authourity quits for good if Sting wins. Bringing out the NWO and DX felt like Dad's Army and it left a bitter taste in my mouth and I'm guessing a lot of other fans too.

- Everyone else like Bray Wyatt, Ambrose even Rollins are stars for the future but for some reason lack that A grade credentials. Reigns is just terrible, Wyatt isn't being giveen worthwhile feuds, Rollins still needs to prove himself and Ambrose seems to have lost his way.

- For me a major blow/turning point was when Edge retired as to me he was truly a main eventer on the level of Cena. Jericho was another as was Rey Mysterio but the latter was self-responsible for his WWE decline.


- The Federation Years, the Attitude years and then the 2000s were full of superstars left right and centre but that bubble was going to burst soon enough and now really WWE and wrestling in general is in a bit of a barren period. WWE really needs to push or unearth someone of that true superstar billing before Cena calls it quits.


- The fact they will bring retired wrestlers out for segments, run-ins etc just to score ratings or cheers shows what a desperate state the creative team are in.


IMO it might well be time to "trim the fat" and ditch a shedload of "superstars" who aren't going to make the cut, focus on the truly good ones and push the new NXT talents.



People I'd say are surplus to requirements at WWE right now: The entire New Day, Lost Matadores, Layla, Emma, Big Show, Ryback, Eric Rowan, Zack Ryder, Jack Swagger, Darren Young, Titus O' Neil, Sin Cara, The Ascension, Heath Slater, Adam Rose, Fandango.

The standout name there is Big Show and whilst I recognize him as a legend in the business, there is just nothing left for him going forward now. I'm reluctant to add Kane and Mark Henry to that list but they too I feel have nothing really exciting to offer the fans. Layla is already pretty old by Divas standards as is one Tamina. Emma fell hugely out of favor re: the whole shoplifting saga last year. Adam Rose and his Rosebuds are neither entertaining nor worth spending even 30 seconds of airtime on. Sin Cara was supposed to be new Rey Mysterio but he isn't and never will be. Fandango never really caught on even after his win against Jericho at WM 29.

[Jazzy Foot]

Poor grammar I know but it is late.

[Shisen Kopf]

Can't get rid of Layla. I'm shocked you would say that. Dem titties yo

[Shisen Kopf]

Also, RIP Ron Wright. Miss that guy.

[Dukelorange]

Not everyone in the WWE can be a star. In any business, you have a pyramid. Every story has a supporting cast. Granted, the WWE has dropped the ball on some cult favorites, I don't think Fandango is WWE Champ material.

But I think all the wrestlers need some rupee of backstory.

[Jazzy Foot]

Not everyone in the WWE can be a star. In any business, you have a pyramid. Every story has a supporting cast. Granted, the WWE has dropped the ball on some cult favorites, I don't think Fandango is WWE Champ material.

But I think all the wrestlers need some rupee of backstory.

The problem no matter how many storylines you give these guys (and girls) some of them just aren't any good and are not worthy of taking up air time on Raw, Smackdown or the PPVs.

It's one thing keeping a backlog of stars it's another giving them false hope in think they will eventually become a top draw when the reality is they won't.

Kofi Kingston was one of those guys and for a time it seemed like he would make the breakthrough with IC title reigns, Elimination Chamber appearances and notable Royal Rumble stints but he didn't.


Dolph Ziggler whilst I would never suggest ditching is another with whom I am not sure what exactly WWE want to do with him in the longrun. Will he get WWE title shots, will he win the WWE title one day? Whilst already established in his own right could he effectively step into Daniel Bryan's shoes should the latter have to call it a day due to injury etc?

How many times can WWE keep relying on part-times, retired superstars, The Rock etc coming back for a promo just to keep the fans entertained? Yes it's good to see these guys every now and then and the fans will always cheer for them but FFS their time has come and gone. Focus on what's here and now and push them.

Otherwise it's a case of "look you guys aren't that great but here's someone who is, The Rock and he's coming back tonight to get on the mic and show you all why you aren't in his league".

It honestly feels like the England fans (myself included) he keep going on about winning the world cup in 1966 despite never coming anywhere near as close since (except in 1990) and living in that bubble.

I honestly feel WWE themselves are still trapped in a bubble or have stagnated somewhat. A bit like how Bischoff and WCW tried over and over again to flog the dead NWO horse to the point it drove WCW out of business (in and amongst other factors).

[James Steele]

2006. I vomited at the end of WrestleMania 22.

[Rammsteinmad]

The problem no matter how many storylines you give these guys (and girls) some of them just aren't any good and are not worthy of taking up air time on Raw, Smackdown or the PPVs.

It's one thing keeping a backlog of stars it's another giving them false hope in think they will eventually become a top draw when the reality is they won't.

Kofi Kingston was one of those guys and for a time it seemed like he would make the breakthrough with IC title reigns, Elimination Chamber appearances and notable Royal Rumble stints but he didn't.


Dolph Ziggler whilst I would never suggest ditching is another with whom I am not sure what exactly WWE want to do with him in the longrun. Will he get WWE title shots, will he win the WWE title one day? Whilst already established in his own right could he effectively step into Daniel Bryan's shoes should the latter have to call it a day due to injury etc?

How many times can WWE keep relying on part-times, retired superstars, The Rock etc coming back for a promo just to keep the fans entertained? Yes it's good to see these guys every now and then and the fans will always cheer for them but FFS their time has come and gone. Focus on what's here and now and push them.

Otherwise it's a case of "look you guys aren't that great but here's someone who is, The Rock and he's coming back tonight to get on the mic and show you all why you aren't in his league".

It honestly feels like the England fans (myself included) he keep going on about winning the world cup in 1966 despite never coming anywhere near as close since (except in 1990) and living in that bubble.

I honestly feel WWE themselves are still trapped in a bubble or have stagnated somewhat. A bit like how Bischoff and WCW tried over and over again to flog the dead NWO horse to the point it drove WCW out of business (in and amongst other factors).

Pretty much been saying this for the last few years now. Would love to see a Wrestlemania where 86% of the card isn't taken up by the same handful of guys who've been taking up all the time for the last five/six years.

There's gonna be a day when WWE can't rely on Triple H, Undertaker, Sting, Lesnar, Rock etc... who's gonna be the mainstream names then? Dolph Ziggler? Cesaro? Barrett?

[Jazzy Foot]

Pretty much been saying this for the last few years now. Would love to see a Wrestlemania where 86% of the card isn't taken up by the same handful of guys who've been taking up all the time for the last five/six years.

There's gonna be a day when WWE can't rely on Triple H, Undertaker, Sting, Lesnar, Rock etc... who's gonna be the mainstream names then? Dolph Ziggler? Cesaro? Barrett?


I think that day has come. Triple H and Undertaker are as good as retired and will come out for the one match. The former I suspect will not make a huge deal out of retiring completely given his continuing on-screen and admin role whereas the latter probably will as once he hangs up his boots, Taker will appear infrequently on WWE programming I suspect.

I don't think Sting will, should or would want the same sort of retirement fanfare he'd have preferred to have done that in a still existent WCW i.e. somewhere he was literally part of the furniture. This feels very much like a big star playing a stint in Vegas or a visiting professor from Cambridge at Princeton post-retirement.


Checking their ages Barrett, Bryan, Ziggler, Amrbose, Wyatt, Rollins and Reigns are all in the same age bracket and Caesaro so pushing these guys would make sense.


Again The Rock won't formally retire, he essentially has done so but only comes back as and when WWE needs him.

Never been a huge Lesnar fan and that stems from my hatred towards him during his first stint in WWE, I always think of how terrible his match with Goldberg was at WM XX. And was not convinced of his commitment until he decided to retire from UFC/MMA and sign a long-term deal with WWE. Even still I never viewed him in the same bracket as the likes of The Rock, Stone Cold, HBK, Cena or even Foley and dare I say it the Undertaker and I am still hugely pissed off and angry it was decided for him to be the one to end the streak as this would have been perfect for Sting.


WWE's talent pool is nothing compared to 20 or even 10 years ago and as I said there may well not be any harm in showing certain individuals the exit door and bring the NXT ranks up to the main roster.


I also wouldn't suspect that if any of those released stars went to say TNA, that TNA would provide any level of competition besides could they afford all the talents?


The only individual I could see boosting TNA ratings would be Cena himself. He wouldn't have to change his name or persona as obviously John Cena is his real name and attention to detail, he owns the rights to his theme song (I believe?) so it would effectively just be a transition and would bring a number of fans.

However the likelihood of that ever happening is about as high as man landing on the sun.

[Ruien]

Pretty much been saying this for the last few years now. Would love to see a Wrestlemania where 86% of the card isn't taken up by the same handful of guys who've been taking up all the time for the last five/six years.

There's gonna be a day when WWE can't rely on Triple H, Undertaker, Sting, Lesnar, Rock etc... who's gonna be the mainstream names then? Dolph Ziggler? Cesaro? Barrett?

They are TRYING to make Bray Wyatt the next super natural type of guy. We all know Roman Reigns is the future of the WWE and Rollins seems to have a bright future in the WWE. It looks like the day is coming sooner than later that the guys they normally rely on won't be there and they are finally having other superstars grow.

[Rammsteinmad]

Nah, it's all for nothing. They can build Reigns, Rollns, Wyatt etc to the moon, but come Wrestlemania 32, when "the whole world is watching"... it'll be the same old shit... Triple H, Rock, Lesnar, Undertaker, Cena etc...

[Vastardikai]

And then they turn around and blame the guys like Bray Wyatt, and Seth Rollins, and Roman Reigns for "not being over enough" and "not reaching for the brass ring."

[#1-norm-fan]

They are TRYING to make Bray Wyatt the next super natural type of guy.

I kinda hope they aren't trying. If this is them trying, the future is very bleak. Take out John Cena and there's no match you can make using the full-time roster that is remotely ready to pack a stadium for WrestleMania. A couple years of setting the precedent that the new wave of guys, as they are now, are the face of WrestleMania and the aura that draws people to the "Super Bowl of wrestling" will dwindle really fucking fast.

[BigCrippyZ]

I kinda hope they aren't trying. If this is them trying, the future is very bleak. Take out John Cena and there's no match you can make using the full-time roster that is remotely ready to pack a stadium for WrestleMania. A couple years of setting the precedent that the new wave of guys, as they are now, are the face of WrestleMania and the aura that draws people to the "Super Bowl of wrestling" will dwindle really fucking fast.

Agreed. If this is them trying, then we (as fans) and they (as a company/business) are all fucked.

If that were to happen do you think Vince would be willing (ego-wise) to go back to having WM at smaller "big" venues like MSG instead of the huge stadiums they've been running WM in for years now?

[Emperor Smeat]

Either the feud against Jericho leading to Jericho's "firing" or the Edge feud in general.

The Edge feud(s) ended up feeling a lot like the Orton feuds where Cena was way over protected or took all the important wins.

[rad dggy dg]

edge is my favorite wrestler damn it

[DAMN iNATOR]

Can't get rid of Layla. I'm shocked you would say that. Dem titties yo

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x1jhwcl" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1jhwcl_layla-wwe-theme-song-nasty-girl-high-quality_music" target="_blank">Layla WWE Theme Song - &quot; Nasty Girl &quot; [High...</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/powerfulcatch75" target="_blank">powerfulcatch75</a></i>

Great theme.

[Rammsteinmad]

I kinda hope they aren't trying. If this is them trying, the future is very bleak. Take out John Cena and there's no match you can make using the full-time roster that is remotely ready to pack a stadium for WrestleMania. A couple years of setting the precedent that the new wave of guys, as they are now, are the face of WrestleMania and the aura that draws people to the "Super Bowl of wrestling" will dwindle really fucking fast.

This is why IMO it's a case of all-or-nothing.

All the big names that make Wrestlemania "special" fuck off the next night. Leaving the rest of the roster to pick up the scraps and scrape the company through the mud the rest of the year. This is partly why I believe nobody gives a fuck about so many guys on the roster. Besides inconsistent booking, and people being used one month, then being gone the next etc, ultimately, they all play second fiddle to the "part timers".

I don't know shit about running million-dollar companies, but I know what I like to see, and seeing as WWE was originally built on risks, now's the time to take another big one.

WWE has enough guys on the roster that are over, that can go in the ring, can put together a good enough promo, and ultimately can "deliver the goods". Rather than focusing on big-name part-timers and appealing to every demographic (R-Truth at Wrestlemania 31), WWE should focus on booking the absolute best card they can. Using todays roster. Have one match to bring in the superstar value, maybe Brock Lesnar vs. The Rock, and then have the rest of the matches using the top guys today.

The whole world is watching when it comes to Wrestlemania. With the right matches, fans will be entertained, the live audience will be entertained which will make for a great televised product. And the next night on Raw, anyone who did tune in to Wrestlemania and enjoyed it, won't be disappointed when they tune in the next night and Triple H, Undertaker, Lesnar, Rock etc are gone.

Remember, all the way from Wrestlemania 1 to the Attitude Era to even now, Wrestlemania always made itself with the top stars of the day. Triple H, The Rock, Undertaker have more than had their fair share of Wrestlemanias. I'm sick of seeing 80% of the biggest show of the year always going to the same handful of guys.

[Ruien]

What I hate the most is someone like Bray losing to Undertaker and then coming back in Raw and just ignoring the feud ever happened. Undertaker did the same thing to CM Punk.

I can get along with 1 part timer match, for example HHH and Sting, but there should not be anymore than that. I think this years Mania did a good job on keeping the focus on the current main roster. Besides having Taker lose to Bray of course. I don't really consider Brock in that list of part timers because he will be appearing throughout the year just not on certain months. He has a 3 year contract so he will be around for awhile. And his build with Reigns was mainly about Reigns starting to believe he could beat Brock rather than focusing around Brock.

[Dukelorange]

I think the level of talent is better NOW then it was back in the day. The differences are that the WWE didn't have as much people to answer to as they do now. Also, I think that most of the superstars had more fleshed out characters. Some of these guys that are on the low end of the pole now would have been greater in this era because of those things I mentioned above.

[Ruien]

I don't buy that. There was probably more talent back then. HHH and Undertaker were still full time employees. Big Show and Kane were not what they are currently. Batistia, Edge, Randy, Umaga, and Jeff Hardy were all around.

The only people WWE has now that they did not have back then is Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, and Daniel Bryan.

[drave]

I would say those are the only RECOGNIZABLE names, but the talent they have at their disposal COULD be the "new gen's (enter icon here)" if given the chance. At one point, Cena wore tights and made fun of Test's teeth, that was his thing.

#GiveSuperstarsAChance

[Ruien]

Of course they have the talent now. It would be idiotic for them not to make Luke, Bray, Reigns, Rollins, and Ambrose into huge stars. It was also idiotic for them to screw up everyone else for the past 15 years though.

Those are the only recognizable names because the WWE didn't make the other wrestlers. R.I.P. Kennedy.

[Ruien]

Man I wish we had a proper Wyatt/Shield feud before the groups broke up. So much talent in those 5 and the sheep man looked cool next to Bray.

[DAMN iNATOR]

However the likelihood of that ever happening is about as high as man landing on the sun.

Yeah, but we all know how Cena just loves to overcome the odds!

[Corkscrewed]

None of these things would be a problem of the WWE was capable of long term booking and development. Now they're slowly digging themselves into a whole that they can only fill by bringing back legends for one-offs, which continues the cycle.

It'll take something drastic for things to change, and hopefully then, we'll get a new renaissance.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I feel like I remember a run in 2004 or 2005 or something where Cena was the champ. On consecutive PPVs, he went over something like Edge, Christian, Jericho, and some sort of combination of them in a triple threat. I was wondering when the train was finally going to get derailed, and when Kurt Angle got announced as his opponent, I was sure that it was ending for Cena. But he went over, and it pissed me off for some reason.

That's all from "memory", so it's not an exact science, so forgive me for that. In retrospect, though...Cena is for real the best performer on the roster, and he probably should be cut some slack at this point.

[Ruien]

I was pissed anytime anyone went over on Angle.

[Anybody Thrilla]

When was the last HUGE moment in WWE that didn't involve John Cena in some way?

[Ruien]

Daniel Bryan winning last years Mania. That was the last huge moment I can think of in general. Seth Rollins getting the title could be classified as a big moment too.

[Ruien]

I get where you are coming from though. It was him and his group of lackey's who beat the Authority. It was also Cena who brought the Authority back. Same thing when Nexus came. CM Punk leaving with the title was with Cena. It usually ends up revolving around Cena or Cena at least playing a big part in whatever major is going down.

[pendekar]

cena is my favorite wrestler damn it
http://wigunpics.science/2/g.png

[Shisen Kopf]

Cena is good but he's no MG Hurst.

[Ruien]

cena is my favorite wrestler damn it
http://wigunpics.science/2/g.png

Why he is your favorite wrestler?

[Ruien]

If I had 1 wrestler to pick today to start a new company with it would be Cena. Behind him would probably be Roman Reigns. Even just from a wrestling perspective Cena does have it all. Even if he completely stopped his charities and Make a Wish commitment he is still the best of the best to have in your company.

[Heyman]

At what point was enough for you where you wanted Cena to just lose to see a change of pace OR have Cena lose to someone and let them have a run at the top?







That moment for me ECW one night stand in 2006 when Cena faced RVD.