The John Cena Dilemma

[Dark One]

This seemed to get some attention in the Raw thread, and I think it probably merits it's own thread. During the Owens/Cena segment these sort of comments popped up:

Cena interruption imminent I bet. :roll:

too bad this promo won't mean anything in 2 weeks when LOLCENAWINS happens and Kevin Owens is reduced to a comedy jobber

100% serious here: What would it take you guys to actually just enjoy a Cena segment or angle?

This is an incredible angle and segment. John Cena is bringing fire on the microphone without devolving into poop jokes. He cuts deep and attacks Kevin Owens' integrity, sure, but he's angry about losing and he went after valid points. He got the crowd into it.

Last night, he lost to Kevin Owens. He had an incredible match that made Owens look like one of the biggest stars in the entire company. In his first match. He got laid out by Kevin Owens multiple times.

If Cena had done what Kevin Owens did, there'd be an infinite flood of posts talking about him burying someone. He was on the receiving end, but still, it's "OMG Cena is going to interrupt."

Of course he's going to interrupt. They're fucking feuding. Kevin Owens just ran him down.

I'm legitimately curious as to what you would like to happen and what you would expect to happen, because this seems like pretty much everything everyone who can't stand Cena has been asking for over the past forever, and now it's not good enough.

Not to pick on DAMN iNATOR and owenbrown, since I'm seeing a lot of this all over the place, but they're the ones I quoted in the thread at the time. This current Owens/Cena angle seems like everything that people have ever wanted, but now it's not good enough. Cena has been putting on great matches for months and giving midcarders an opportunity to shine.

The Rusev debacle is fresh in people's mind, sure, but Rusev never beat Cena clean or even close to it, let alone in his first match in WWE. CM Punk never beat Cena clean. The Rock, Brock Lesnar, and Daniel Bryan are probably the only people recently to do so, and their careers worked out pretty okay.

So, let's talk about it. What would it take for you to stop complaining about Cena? What's missing? What do you actually want?

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

DilEMMA.

[#1-norm-fan]

lol It's mostly just owenbrown with the silly Cena hate lately. And Owens beating Cena 100 times in a row won't stop him from ignoring those and commenting "Ugh. Here we go. LOLCENAWINS like always" before the 101st match. It's his gimmick or something.

[Droford]

Death, Taxes and Lol Cena wins

Made into a wrestling shirt with Taker, IRS and Cena winning

[Heisenberg]

Cena is miles away from the WWE Heavyweight title and putting over KO, equipped with a fresh storyline of a dad wanting to kick his son's favorite wrestler's ass. Also, someone is calling Cena out for his aura so we're getting somewhere in that aspect.

KO is Doomsday(Dadbodsday) and Cena is Superman, his death is imminent.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/84221/1852349-dc_villains_card_attack_foil_cc2_the_death_of_superman_04cfb.jpg

[Wishbone]

I'm not on the whole "Cena's gonna ruin Owens" bandwagon that you're talking about but I am a little worried. Rusev and Wyatt both floundered into nothing after Cena beat them. Sure Owens beat Cena clean but he's also an unestablished heel.

Bryan was fine because a) he was the most over face in the company at the time, and b) he won that feud. Punk was fine because he also came out on top during their initial feud. Rock and Lesnar were fine because they were already mega stars before their respective feuds.

That said I'm gonna be hopeful that they don't screw this up.

[Nowhere Man]

Moderate wall of text inbound, wrapped in spoiler tags to avoid being an eyesore:

The biggest thing I want to see from Cena is some change over time in his character. I'm not saying turn heel, but just...be affected by things that are happening around him. Like, back at Mania 28, during the build-up to his first match with the Rock, he would go on and on about how this match meant everything in the world to him, how he didn't know how he was going to go on if he lost, how he was basically ready to die if it meant beating the Rock....and then when he lost, the next night he went "Oh well, there's always next time."When Brock Lesnar shit-stomped him at Summerslam, he was gone for like a week before he came back, single-handedly wiped out the Wyatt Family so hard they broke up off-camera, and was throwing himself at Lesnar again like nothing happened. Both of those scenarios should have shaken him to his core-- John Cena's the invincible superhero, and then someone comes along and absolutely trucks him. As annoying as his inconsistent selling is in the ring, it's nothing compared to how little he sells the plot.

Again, I don't necessarily need Heel Cena in order to be interested in the guy. I just want to see him evolve and adapt over time. Daniel Bryan, for instance, went from soft-spoken indie guy who Michael Cole hated for no reason, to a deluded dork whose MitB cash-in filled him with false confidence, to half of a dysfunctional tag team who bickered like an old married couple, to populist anti-authoritarian revolutionary, to beloved folk hero. Randy Orton's been a snotty upstart brat, a cold-blooded psychopath, a loose-cannon antihero, a spoiled corporate golden boy, and about a half-dozen other things which make his character trajectory far more interesting to track than Cena's, and I don't even like Randy. Everyone around Cena has changed and grown and risen and fallen, some for the better and some for the worse, but Cena's always just been John Cena, stuck forever in 2005.

They have a perfect opportunity to make me care about the guy again in this Kevin Owens situation. Cena's pushing 40, and he's slipping down the card in favor of the Shield guys. He's suddenly facing all these guys from NXT who are already giving him a run for his money, and they're barely getting started in their careers. Sami Zayn nearly took him out in what Cena thought was going to just be a fun exhibition match. Adrian Neville had him dead to rights before Rusev ran in. And Kevin Owens just wrecked his shit. A year or so ago Cena cut a promo where he said something along the lines of "The future has to come through me," and now it's doing just that. The unbeatable superhero isn't as unbeatable as he used to be, and Cena doesn't know how to deal with that.

This would be the perfect opportunity to start showing some vulnerability and doubt in a guy who's been bulletproof for ages, ditch the goofy shtick and start throwing those stank-nasty lariats like he was in his match with Owens. Maybe as he grows more and more desperate to stay relevant, he starts making decisions he's not proud of, like falling in with the Authority (or Paul Heyman) to give him an advantage against the Roman Reigns' and Kevin Owens' of the world. Give the guy an arc where he actually goes through some peaks and valleys, show us what good Hustle Loyalty and Respect are when the guy across the ring from you is just going to German suplex you until you die. How does it affect him when he starts to doubt himself, when all the cancer kids are counting on him? Give me something, anything, to make me care what happens to this guy, as long as it's not another "heel cuts a worked-shoot promo where they try to bring out his 'dark side'" angle because that never works.

Will they do it? Probably not. But they could do it, and that's what I'm hoping happens. Anything that doesn't involve Cena AA'ing Kevin Owens off of an ambulance roof at Summerslam is all I'm hoping for, really.

[Lock Jaw]

Rusev didn't flounder into nothing, for pete's sake.... he still looked strong and was still treated as a big deal. Now he is injured, though. Would have been just fine if he wasn't, though.

[Nowhere Man]

Cena is miles away from the WWE Heavyweight title and putting over KO, equipped with a fresh storyline of a dad wanting to kick his son's favorite wrestler's ass. Also, someone is calling Cena out for his aura so we're getting somewhere in that aspect.

KO is Doomsday(Dadbodsday) and Cena is Superman, his death is imminent.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/84221/1852349-dc_villains_card_attack_foil_cc2_the_death_of_superman_04cfb.jpg

That's probably not the analogy you wanna go for, since Superman fought Doomsday a shitload of times after that first encounter and beat him pretty much every time after that.

[Wishbone]

That's probably not the analogy you wanna go for, since Superman fought Doomsday a shitload of times after that first encounter and beat him pretty much every time after that.

Honestly I'd say this comparison is more accurate to Cena vs Lesnar. Owens is more like Luthor with his power suit since he might be able to beat Superman but it'll take pretty much everything he has to do so... and there's a heavy possibility he'll loose next time anyway. #ComicNerdsInAWrestlingForum

[road doggy dogg]

Cena is way better than most people realize. I don't understand the naysayers at this point either

I had no intention of watching any of Elimination Chamber and tuned in for a few matches... the Cena/Owens match kept my attention the entire time. And the US Open (tee hee) Challenge has been great. Cena isn't even close to the title scene right now and putting guys in meaningful feuds. It's great.

[Heisenberg]

That's probably not the analogy you wanna go for, since Superman fought Doomsday a shitload of times after that first encounter and beat him pretty much every time after that.



true, but I didn't throw in the outcome of Cena's demise in the forms of EradiCena, Steelcena, Cyborg Supercena and Cenaboy

[Big Vic]

So, let's talk about it. What would it take for you to stop complaining about Cena? What's missing? What do you actually want?I would like Cena to actually lose a feud.

[road doggy dogg]

Why? Did Austin ever lose any feuds? Where's all the Austin hate?

[Big Vic]

Austins run was about 2 years, Cenas run has been about 13.

[road doggy dogg]

So let's punish the company's flagship wrestler because he has tremendous durability and longevity. Cool

[Hanso Amore]

My biggest problem is feuds being run into the ground at consecutive PPVs.

Rusev got the cheap win over Cena at Fastlane, okay fair enough, and then Cena get's his big 'legacy' victory at Wrestlemania. Fine so far, but here is where we descend into Cena FUCK FINISH territory with gimmick matches. We get the 3rd act where Cena beats Rusev to end the feud in that shitty russian chain match. It's 2-1, but 5 minutes after the match, they announce a 4th match for Payback. Why the fuck for? Rusev loses to Cena THREE TIMES in a row. Why bother with that 4th match?

Now Owens gets a great win on PPV over Cena. I was hoping they'd leave it at that and move on, maybe do a rematch at Summerslam, but fucking halfway through the PPV they have already announced a rematch for 2 weeks time.

So, we are approaching a cycle where if Cena eats a loss on PPV, he get's his win back, 2 or maybe 3 times over. That's overkill, man.

This is the most reasoned post in the thread.

Its either STOP HATING CENA or CENAS A PIECE OF SHIT.

This is perfectly fair. This isnt Cenas "fault" but no one is blaming him for being the booker. But yea, how can you consider it "making stars" or not "burying" a guy when he is just losing over an over in a short period.

Even Hogan never beat a heel 3 Pay Per Views in a row.

Cena should get his win, and move on. YAY HE OVERCOMES THE ODDS! FACES ARE GOOD! YAY CENA. No one minds that. But when they stretch these feuds across 4-5 pay per views, and Cena comes out on top it just de-elevates his foil. Same thing with Wyatt.

Peoples point with Owens is fair too. Yeah, Owens went over. The next night Cena shows up with the "you aint done nothing Jack" and we get a rematch in two weeks. Way too quick. So either Owens wins again, which wont happen, or Cena gets his win back in two weeks and they will either forget it and move on or do the same match 3 more times.

[Hanso Amore]

I would like Cena to actually lose a feud.

Pretty sure he "lost" his feud with Lesnar.

[Big Vic]

So let's punish the company's flagship wrestler because he has tremendous durability and longevity. CoolA good story has peaks and valleys not just one giant ass plateau.

[Dark One]

Pretty sure he "lost" his feud with Lesnar.

And Daniel Bryan, albeit that was short. Arguably with Punk. Most definitely with Orton/Authority. Sure, his team may have won at Survivor Series but he didn't, and he never got his belts back.

It didn't happen for a really long stretch, sure, but it's happening a lot more in the past few years. It's a problem, like you and Tommy Gunn said, when he's winning feuds by beating somebody 6 times in a month and a half.

[Big Vic]

I have a feeling Cena might lose against Owens at MITB (God willing), or win by DQ (meh).

[Big Vic]

And Daniel Bryan, albeit that was short. Arguably with Punk. Most definitely with Orton/Authority. Sure, his team may have won at Survivor Series but he didn't, and he never got his belts back.

It didn't happen for a really long stretch, sure, but it's happening a lot more in the past few years. It's a problem, like you and Tommy Gunn said, when he's winning feuds by beating somebody 6 times in a month and a half.
I wouldn't say he had a feud with bryan, just a match. I would also say Punk and Cena had a few feuds and each won a few them.

[Hanso Amore]

One thing Tommy gunn brings up that is even a bigger issue is the RUSH to rematch. They are making the next match the same night, or next night.

Heaven forbid they take Rusev off TV for a week or two and then have him come back and attack Cena. Or have some kind of Angle to further the story.

Instead the Story is

Rusev hates America - Fights Cena - Wins - Rematch - Lose - Rematch - Lose - Rematch - Lose.

There no stories, its just "IN 4 WEEKS THEY ARE GOING HEAD TO HEAD AGAIN".

[Hanso Amore]

For anyone trying to defend Cena with Stone Cold, go back to 1998-1999.

Never was pushed over "Credible" heels for months on end.

Once again, not Cenas fault, but poor booking. And not entertaining. And thats why people are tired and bored of cena.

[Blonde Moment]

true, but I didn't throw in the outcome of Cena's demise in the forms of EradiCena, Steelcena, Cyborg Supercena and Cenaboy

Cena gets beat at MiTB and the next night out comes Darren Young dressed like cena in his rapper days

[loopydate]

Why? Did Austin ever lose any feuds? Where's all the Austin hate?

:wave:

I fucking hate Austin

[Hanso Amore]

Rusev didn't flounder into nothing, for pete's sake.... he still looked strong and was still treated as a big deal. Now he is injured, though. Would have been just fine if he wasn't, though.

He went from RIDING A TANK AT WRESTLEMANIA to being Cuckolded by Dolph Ziggler.

[Nowhere Man]

Why? Did Austin ever lose any feuds? Where's all the Austin hate?

Austin lost to Triple H in their 2000 feud, lost to the Rock in their Mania XIX feud, and never got his 'big win' over Bret Hart in the feud that got him over in the first place so he kinda lost that one, too. He also lost single matches with far greater regularity. So, yeah.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

My only problem with Cena is he makes ZERO sense.

Half of his promo last night was awesome. The idea that KO secretly follows the same mantra of Cena (never give up) was a nice idea. Basically Kevin Owens IS John Cena, except KO has had 15 years of bitterness and clawing, where Cena has been supported by a giant company. That is awesome.

What I HATED was Cena going on about how KO needs to man up and the implication that he isn't a man for some reason? WTF? KO won Sunday cleanly, but somehow "isn't a man" because he doesn't like the fact that Cena is so over-supported that KO's own son idolizes him over his dad... Cena lost, he doesn't really get to insult KO's masculinity.

[Ruien]

Because he is acting like a kid via being childish.

[Hanso Amore]

hes being a heel.

When you havea chickenshit heel you can call him a coward. its part of the schtick.

When you have a cocky heel you can call him disrespectful and overconfident.

You can have selfish heels, scary heels, bad ass heels.

Cena comes at every heel with "I DONT TAKE YOU SERIOUS YOU HAVE BITCH TITS" until he loses then its "IM A MAN AND ILL WHOOP YO ASS YOU PANSY YOU MIGHT HAVE WON BUT PEOPLE WONT RESPECT YOU".

Samething with every heel. Dude has one speed. And he does the same shit hes getting on Owens for.

[Nark Order]

"Never Give Up" is unforgivable and I can't back it. It is unorginal, it is pandering, and it is infuriating to think that WWE thinks it is a legitimate way to market. John Cena uses cancer patients as a way to try to get over and it is ridiculously unfair and somewhat underhanded on WWE's part. I'm not talking about doing the actual Make A Wish work, but bringing it up in promos as a way to get cheers is somewhat scummy. So if I don't cheer for Cena, I hate cancer patients? It's absurd.

As a guy, I really like him. As a character, I have to hate him. WWE will never take risks with him, it's always the same message just said in a different way, they drained out everything that got him over in the first place, and there is no real point to him winning matches anymore. I like him as a person but I absolutely cannot support the character in anyway until they make necessary changes.

[Big Vic]

Kinda off topic (and I am not saying this is evidence to anything):

Remember the Cena/Dolph feud around the time AJ joined dolph?

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/116d2e2e96qatar-flag.jpg WWE WWE Live - Road To Wrestlemania (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---road-to-wrestlemania-raw-21315.html)
Feb 21st 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Big E. Langston (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/big-e-langston-6446.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>handicap tag</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-16790.html)
Feb 11th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>dark
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-16774.html)
Feb 4th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">C. M. Punk (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/c-m-punk-467.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>dark
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live - Road To Wrestlemania (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---road-to-wrestlemania-raw-21323.html)
Feb 3rd 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">C. M. Punk (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/c-m-punk-467.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live - Road To Wrestlemania (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---road-to-wrestlemania-raw-21326.html)
Feb 2nd 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">C. M. Punk (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/c-m-punk-467.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live - Road To Wrestlemania (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---road-to-wrestlemania-raw-21327.html)
Feb 1st 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">C. M. Punk (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/c-m-punk-467.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Royal Rumble '13 (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/royal-rumble-3913-16759.html)
Jan 27th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. </td><td width="22%">Antonio Cesaro (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/antonio-cesaro-1874.html), Bo Dallas (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/bo-dallas-6435.html), Brodus Clay (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/brodus-clay-6631.html), Chris Jericho (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/chris-jericho-296.html), Cody Rhodes (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/cody-rhodes-2805.html), Damien Sandow (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/damien-sandow-376.html), Daniel Bryan (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/daniel-bryan-1741.html), Darren Young (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/darren-young-3424.html), David Otunga (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/david-otunga-6094.html), Dolph Ziggler, Drew McIntyre (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/drew-mcintyre-3409.html), Goldust (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/goldust-123.html), Heath Slater (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/heath-slater-3407.html), Jinder Mahal (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/jinder-mahal-6724.html), Kane (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/kane-197.html), Kofi Kingston (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/kofi-kingston-3295.html), Randy Orton (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/randy-orton-384.html), Rey Mysterio (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/rey-mysterio-351.html), Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html), Santino Marella (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/santino-marella-3089.html), Sheamus (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html), Sin Cara (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/sin-cara-2878.html), Tensai (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/tensai-292.html), The Godfather (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-godfather-142.html), The Great Khali (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-great-khali-444.html), The Miz (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-miz-412.html), Titus O'Neil (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/titus-o39neil-6290.html), Wade Barrett (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/wade-barrett-6096.html), Zack Ryder (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/zack-ryder-3248.html)</td><td>30-man Royal Rumble</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-raw-21363.html)
Jan 20th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">C. M. Punk (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/c-m-punk-467.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
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</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-raw-21366.html)
Jan 19th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">C. M. Punk (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/c-m-punk-467.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-raw-21367.html)
Jan 18th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>no disqualification</td><td>
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</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-raw-21371.html)
Jan 13th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">C. M. Punk (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/c-m-punk-467.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
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</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-raw-21376.html)
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Jan 7th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
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Jan 6th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
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Jan 5th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
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Jan 4th 2013</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>street fight</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live - Holiday Tour (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---holiday-tour-raw-21382.html)
Dec 30th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. </td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>steel cage</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-taping-16693.html)
Dec 29th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Sheamus (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html)</td><td width="9%">def. </td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler & The Big Show (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-big-show-283.html)</td><td>dark
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live - Holiday Tour (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---holiday-tour-raw-21383.html)
Dec 28th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>steel cage</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE MSG Show (Dec. '12) - Holiday Tour (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/msg-show-dec-3912---holiday-tour-raw-21387.html)
Dec 27th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>steel cage</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live - Holiday Tour (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---holiday-tour-raw-21389.html)
Dec 26th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>street fight</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Smackdown! (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/smackdown-16665.html)
Dec 18th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Sheamus (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (DQ)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler & The Big Show (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-big-show-283.html)</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-16664.html)
Dec 17th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Vickie Guerrero (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/vickie-guerrero-3875.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (DQ)</td><td width="22%">AJ (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/aj-6580.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE TLC - Tables, Ladders & Chairs '12 (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/tlc---tables-ladders--chairs-3912-16661.html)
Dec 16th 2012</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td width="9%">def. </td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td>"Money in the Bank"</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live - Holiday Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---holiday-tour-21391.html)
Dec 15th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>street fight</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-16632.html)
Dec 3rd 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Sheamus (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/sheamus-5000.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler & The Big Show (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-big-show-283.html)</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-raw-21394.html)
Dec 2nd 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-raw-21395.html)
Dec 1st 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE WWE Live (Raw) (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live-raw-21397.html)
Nov 30th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/us.gif WWE Monday Night Raw (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-16618.html)
Nov 26th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21399.html)
Nov 10th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21401.html)
Nov 9th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/402d5fa5a2ie.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21403.html)
Nov 8th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (sub)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21405.html)
Nov 7th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (sub)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21406.html)
Nov 6th 2012</td><td width="22%">
</td><td width="9%">def. (sub)</td><td width="22%">
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21406.html)
Nov 6th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (sub)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE Monday Night Raw Taping (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/monday-night-raw-taping-16532.html)
Nov 5th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena & Ryback (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/ryback-3020.html)</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">C. M. Punk (http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/c-m-punk-467.html) & Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21408.html)
Nov 4th 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21412.html)
Nov 3rd 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/gb.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21413.html)
Nov 2nd 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/fb8c91c9d0fr.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21415.html)
Nov 1st 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="chequered"><td>http://profightdb.com/img/flags/fb8c91c9d0fr.gif WWE WWE Live - Raw World Tour (http://profightdb.com/cards/wwe/wwe-live---raw-world-tour-21417.html)
Oct 31st 2012</td><td width="22%">John Cena</td><td width="9%">def. (pin)</td><td width="22%">Dolph Ziggler</td></tr></tbody></table>

[road doggy dogg]

"Never Give Up" is unforgivable and I can't back it. It is unorginal, it is pandering, and it is infuriating to think that WWE thinks it is a legitimate way to market. John Cena uses cancer patients as a way to try to get over and it is ridiculously unfair and somewhat underhanded on WWE's part. I'm not talking about doing the actual Make A Wish work, but bringing it up in promos as a way to get cheers is somewhat scummy. So if I don't cheer for Cena, I hate cancer patients? It's absurd.

As a guy, I really like him. As a character, I have to hate him. WWE will never take risks with him, it's always the same message just said in a different way, they drained out everything that got him over in the first place, and there is no real point to him winning matches anymore. I like him as a person but I absolutely cannot support the character in anyway until they make necessary changes.

Cena's charitable work is actually one of the few cases where I don't feel the WWE is egregiously pandering or exploiting something. I think he genuinely cares about the work he does, and I don't really have an issue with any of it. Which is rare for me, 'cause I usually can't stand that sort of thing.

[Lock Jaw]

John Cena is fantastic right now and anyone who disagrees with me can make like a tree and get outta here.

This is exactly what people have been clamoring for him to do for years. Take a seat back from the main event and work with the young up and comers and help establish the future.

[Ruien]

Love John Cena right now. Hated how he went over Rusev 4 times in a row but that is not his fault. Hate how people still chant "Cena Sucks" when he in fact rules.

[Nark Order]

Cena's charitable work is actually one of the few cases where I don't feel the WWE is egregiously pandering or exploiting something. I think he genuinely cares about the work he does, and I don't really have an issue with any of it. Which is rare for me, 'cause I usually can't stand that sort of thing.

Bringing it up in promos in what I have a problem with. I think it's fantastic that he does the work. Using it in promos seems like desperation for positive attention. Not a fan.

[Emperor Smeat]

My biggest issue has been more about his stale booking and whenever his promos end up on the preachy or rambling type. Stale booking in the sense that the WWE keeps recycling the same main storyline or reasons and his preachy/rambling promos tend to make little sense or fit better if he was a bad guy.

He doesn't need to suddenly lose or flip flop a lot in momentum like almost the whole roster but he does need a lot more change after all these years with the same stale character.

To his credit, he has been doing some amazing stuff with the Open Challenge and usually is at his best whenever he's motivated either because of his opponent or wants to prove something.

[#1-norm-fan]

Austin lost to Triple H in their 2000 feud, lost to the Rock in their Mania XIX feud, and never got his 'big win' over Bret Hart in the feud that got him over in the first place so he kinda lost that one, too. He also lost single matches with far greater regularity. So, yeah.

While Austin was on top, he definitely did not lose singles matches with more regularity than Cena has over the past 10 years. It's not even close.

[#1-norm-fan]

On top of that, the top face SHOULD win a lot. People seem to like to complain that there isn't enough parity at the top of the card. Parity isn't a good thing. It leads to situations like we have now where everyone's treated and equal and no one gets over because everyone's expected to lose constantly.

[#1-norm-fan]

My biggest issue has been more about his stale booking and whenever his promos end up on the preachy or rambling type. Stale booking in the sense that the WWE keeps recycling the same main storyline or reasons and his preachy/rambling promos tend to make little sense or fit better if he was a bad guy.

He doesn't need to suddenly lose or flip flop a lot in momentum like almost the whole roster but he does need a lot more change after all these years with the same stale character.

To his credit, he has been doing some amazing stuff with the Open Challenge and usually is at his best whenever he's motivated either because of his opponent or wants to prove something.

Exactly this. He's a victim of the same thing everyone else on the roster is a victim of. He just gets more flack because he's been the top guy during an era of lazy booking. When they do give him something entertaining to work with though, he fucking knocks it out of the park. No one deserves his spot more.

[DAMN iNATOR]

While Austin was on top, he definitely did not lose singles matches with more regularity than Cena has over the past 10 years. It's not even close.

But overall though, Cena has a much better W-L record. Granted, he's probably nowhere near done yet, but as of this post, Cena has a .754 win percentage, winning 794 of his (so far) 1,053 matches. Austin, on the other hand, has a .571 (rounded) win percentage in 434 matches. The records speak for themselves.

Source: http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrecord/john-cena-350.html

http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrecord/steve-austin-205.html

[Crimson]

I agree Cena is amazing when given the proper chance. Would love to see what he can do as a heel again before he's past his prime.

[Ruien]

Sorry Crimson, that will never happen.

[#1-norm-fan]

But overall though, Cena has a much better W-L record. Granted, he's probably nowhere near done yet, but as of this post, Cena has a .754 win percentage, winning 794 of his (so far) 1,053 matches. Austin, on the other hand, has a .571 (rounded) win percentage in 434 matches. The records speak for themselves.

Source: http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrecord/john-cena-350.html

http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrecord/steve-austin-205.html

I said when they were on top. Yes, rapper Cena and Prototype may have won more than The Ringmaster and "Stunning" Steve. The point is, as the face of the company, Cena has lost more than any other face of the company... maybe in the history of wrestling. Austin was "overcoming the odds" WAY more. I don't think he was pinned, clean or not, more than 4 or 5 times during his time on top. Cena has lost more than that in a given year just on PPV recently.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The winning and losing doesn't matter as much as the booking burying the guys he has programs with. So I agree with some of what you're saying fan, but you're getting stuck on the meaningless win/loss stuff, trying to prove a point.

[#1-norm-fan]

I only said it in response to what Nowhere Man said.

[Nowhere Man]

I said when they were on top. Yes, rapper Cena and Prototype may have won more than The Ringmaster and "Stunning" Steve. The point is, as the face of the company, Cena has lost more than any other face of the company... maybe in the history of wrestling. Austin was "overcoming the odds" WAY more. I don't think he was pinned, clean or not, more than 4 or 5 times during his time on top. Cena has lost more than that in a given year just on PPV recently.

Yeah, but Austin's "time on top" was, what, three years at most? By the end of 1999, Rock had pretty solidly eclipsed him. Cena's been the top guy for well over a decade. I may have been wrong about Austin's W/L record during his time as the top face, but if he was protected and rarely lost, it was because they were striking while the proverbial iron was still hot. At this point, the iron on Cena hasn't just cooled down, it's rusted over.

[Ruien]

But Austin had someone coming behind him. Cena has himself and that is it. 100% not his fault. The WWE should not have fucked up Randy Orton like they did.

[Nark Order]

But Austin had someone coming behind him. Cena has himself and that is it. 100% not his fault. The WWE should not have fucked up Randy Orton/Bray Wyatt/Jack Swagger/John Morrison/CM Punk/Ryback/Big E/Dolph Ziggler/Rusev/Alberto Del Rio like they did.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Honestly wonder if Cena going the tweener route and catering to his child fans and riling up the adults who try to boo him out of every building, might work.

They'd still be able to market and sell his merch to a massively obsessed and loyal fan base, AND he'd have the entire crowd controlled like puppets.

[Hanso Amore]

I dream of a John Cena NEVER GIVE UP type character mixed with the insincerity of BO DALLAS.

Let him cheat to win then spout off about Hustle Loyalty and Respect.

[Hanso Amore]

I just dont know when it happened. You cant even discuss things yout dont like about John Cena anymore without being treated like a Neckbeard.

WWE has you all trained.

[Nowhere Man]

But Austin had someone coming behind him.

Phrasing.


Anyway, yeah, WWE hasn't bothered to put stock in anyone beyond Cena, but you can't honestly believe that Cena doesn't have a massive amount of creative control. If he wasn't cool with utterly trashing guys like Del Rio and Bray Wyatt and everyone else who he's rolled over during his never-ending reign on top, he could have very easily done something about it. Being booked as indestructible at everyone else's expense may not have been Cena's idea, but he's definitely complicit in it.

[#1-norm-fan]

Again, he's jobbed a ton. You really think he should say "Listen, thanks for having me win like... barely half of my major matches as the face of the company but I think we could go less! That'll really make things better!"

Cena not jobbing enough isn't the problem. And even if it was, his job isn't to fix how shitty creative is by sacrificing himself to help push another guy they can fail with.

[Ruien]

John Cena should never job to Del Rio. He was never going to be the face of the company. Bray Wyatt's feud was fine. The only part the was terrible was Cena going over him after he got rocked by Brock. That isn't something I am blaming Cena for.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

If there was proper continuity in the booking, it wouldn't matter if guys won or lost matches, as long as the focus was still there.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Instead of everything that happened a month before being treated as an afterthought.

[Hanso Amore]

Again, he's jobbed a ton. You really think he should say "Listen, thanks for having me win like... barely half of my major matches as the face of the company but I think we could go less! That'll really make things better!"

Cena not jobbing enough isn't the problem. And even if it was, his job isn't to fix how shitty creative is by sacrificing himself to help push another guy they can fail with.

"Barely half" lol

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes. Sorry I let facts get in the way of your need to believe LOLCENAWINS.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Really loved how Cena pointed out that kid fighting cancer so cool, but it sort of killed the promo. What is Kevin Owens going to do talk after that? He can't do anything. He can't be seen as pro-cancer.

That is one of the biggest reasons it's not best for the story for Cena to point out these things or be the face of Breast cancer. It's great for the cause and is really awesome but it also limits what can be done in promos when it goes down. They could have had a good give and take on Raw but he stopped it cold.

Its better if these things are done behind the scenes or not as part of a hot angle.

[Savio]

KO should have started a "Lets Go Cancer! Lets Go!" *clap clap clap*

[Ruien]

Really loved how Cena pointed out that kid fighting cancer so cool, but it sort of killed the promo. What is Kevin Owens going to do talk after that? He can't do anything. He can't be seen as pro-cancer.

That is one of the biggest reasons it's not best for the story for Cena to point out these things or be the face of Breast cancer. It's great for the cause and is really awesome but it also limits what can be done in promos when it goes down. They could have had a good give and take on Raw but he stopped it cold.

Its better if these things are done behind the scenes or not as part of a hot angle.

KO could have been like, "She is beating cancer like I keep beating your butt" and it would have been fine.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

butt lol

[XL]

Honestly wonder if Cena going the tweener route and catering to his child fans and riling up the adults who try to boo him out of every building, might work.

They'd still be able to market and sell his merch to a massively obsessed and loyal fan base, AND he'd have the entire crowd controlled like puppets.

Isn't that the exact position they're in right now?

[XL]

The trouble with Cena (the character) isn't that he doesn't lose, because he does. It's what happens afterwards.

Bryan best Cena, and it was a massive victory for him. They didn't go back to the well. That victory is a stand-out moment for DB because they didn't have rematch after rematch after rematch. Cena never got his "win back".

If Owens beat Cena at EC, then turned down the challenge of a rematch (the same way he turned down the U.S. Open Challenge) because he had nothing to prove, his victory would mean more. He could brag about it, he'd get some heat for dodging the rematch, and more because he's "right". The loss could eat at Cena. We could build to a rematch if needs be somewhere down the line.

Instead, 2 weeks of build and they're rushing another match. If Owens wins he proves it wasn't a fluke, he is the real deal, and they could still do what I just suggested. However, and this is where the heat on Cena (the character) comes from; that likely won't happen.

We hope Cena won't win, tying the series and leading to a "rubber match" where Cena wins in the end, but we've seen it all before.

Yes Cena loses, but the loss doesn't mean anything when he beats you 3 times afterwards - and that's what we expect to happen.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Isn't that the exact position they're in right now?

Except he's portrayed as a mega-face right now. I'm saying have him shit on his haters in an über-heel way and still play the big hero to the kids and women that enjoy him.

[DAMN iNATOR]

The trouble with Cena (the character) isn't that he doesn't lose, because he does. It's what happens afterwards.

Bryan best Cena, and it was a massive victory for him. They didn't go back to the well. That victory is a stand-out moment for DB because they didn't have rematch after rematch after rematch. Cena never got his "win back".

If Owens beat Cena at EC, then turned down the challenge of a rematch (the same way he turned down the U.S. Open Challenge) because he had nothing to prove, his victory would mean more. He could brag about it, he'd get some heat for dodging the rematch, and more because he's "right". The loss could eat at Cena. We could build to a rematch if needs be somewhere down the line.

Instead, 2 weeks of build and they're rushing another match. If Owens wins he proves it wasn't a fluke, he is the real deal, and they could still do what I just suggested. However, and this is where the heat on Cena (the character) comes from; that likely won't happen.

We hope Cena won't win, tying the series and leading to a "rubber match" where Cena wins in the end, but we've seen it all before.

Yes Cena loses, but the loss doesn't mean anything when he beats you 3 times afterwards - and that's what we expect to happen.

Would love to see it go 1-1 and then afterwards have Owens keep playing mind games with Cena for a while, wait until, say the end of July and have him say he wanted to defeat Cena in a MEMORABLE way...at SummerSlam. They fight at SummerSlsm and Owens wins clean, this time with the US title on the line, with Owens having recently lost the NXT belt to whoever at the next big "TakeOver event", clearing the way to call him up to WWE full-time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd put Owens over at Money in the Bank when he powerbombs Cena into oblivion. Basically the Owens/Zayn Rival ending. Powerbomb after powerbomb until the kiddies cry. The referee stops the match and awards the victory to Kevin Owens. Not only did he beat Cena again, but he did it in more dominant fashion.

Owens cuts a promo on RAW where he says he just did what he said he would. He talks about Cena's slogans and mocks "NEVER GIVE UP!" by pointing out that Cena's body basically did. Owens turns his attention to his match against Finn Balor in Japan for the NXT Title. Last time Finn Balor disrespected him by not bringing The Demon along. If Balor shows up without the Demon this time, the same thing will happen to him that happened to Sami Zayn. That happened to Alex Riley. That happened to John Cena. He wants to meet the Demon in Japan, and he's going to be the first to defeat the Demon.

Anyway, Balor wins the NXT Title at the Japan show cleanly. It'd be an epic way to switch it over, and Finn Balor gets to beat the guy who beat Cena. Hideo Itami comes out and applauds his friend and there's a nice moment for Japanese fans of those men.

Owens is pissed on RAW and says that he'll have a message for Finn Balor on NXT this week, but in the meantime he thinks it is a joke that John Cena is lying at home with the US Title, whilst Owens is the one who put him on the shelf and has to lose his. Owens says he makes the challenges now and Cena can come and hand him the US Title next week or else.

Cena does show up and says he got beaten by Owens worse than even Brock Lesnar beat him up. He says that Owens is the man, and he really did beat him twice. Cena goes to hand Owens the belt. When Owens goes to grab it, Cena pulls him into an Attitude Adjustment however. "I'm not handing this to anybody!"

Owens has meanwhile told Finn Balor that he won't be cashing in his rematch for the NXT Championship. He's done with NXT. He came in, he conquered. All the best, champ. His sole goal is to become United States Champion. And after he hits a pop-up powerbomb at Battleground, he does so.

[Ruien]

Don't think anyone should destroy Cena so early into their career. They need to grow. Not automatically be better than the current GOAT.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, no way should Owens dominate Cena/beat him three times in a row like that. Especially if he loses cleanly himself during that time.

[Lock Jaw]

But if he loses to Cena even once people will say he is buried and his career is over. So he obviously NEEDS to dominate him.

[Simple Fan]

Feel like Owens will be ok after the Cena feud. Soon he will probably join the Authority, and start one upping Rollins.

[EzekielKane]

Do you think Cena will ever turn heel?