DISCUSSION - I think Face Randy Orton is WWE's best bet in terms of salvaging a terrible year

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - I think Face Randy Orton is WWE's best bet in terms of salvaging a terrible year

One reason, amongst many, as to why the WWE has been horribly sub-par since Wrestlemania, is because their lack of a top baby face:


-Roman Reigns is too green
-Ryback isn't ready, nor may ever be ready
-Daniel Bryan's career is in jeopardy
-John Cena is "been there done that"
-Brock Lesnar isn't around enough
-Seth Rollins is the company's top heel and won't be face for quite some time.
-CM Punk will likely never come back


And simply put, the WWE does not want any of Cesaro, Ziggler, or Ambrose to be in that spot.


My opinion is this: Whoever the WWE ultimately does choose to be their "top babyface for the rest of the year, should....


1) Go over John Cena cleanly at some point during this year
2) Go cleanly over Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania next year.


My vote goes for Randy Orton.


1) He has "the look"
2) He's over enough with the fans
3) It's someone different from John Cena
4) Kayfabe wise, he looks credible enough to beat Lesnar


While it's no longer the year 2004, I think a face Orton is capable of carrying the WWE for 1-2 years while the WWE transitions into a new period. Once you have guys like Kevin Owens, etc., pay their dues and develop a little more, then you can transition from Randy Orton into whoever the company chooses to be their next <s>Hogan</s>/Austin/Rocky/Cena.


For now though, given the lack of 'star power' on the Face side, I think you give the ball to Orton.


The WWE can easily play it off as, "Orton is finally starting to realize his massive potential after all these years of inconsistency." From a wrestling perspective, I think Orton/Lesnar would be quite good.

[Heyman]

Randy Orton is by no means the perfect long term solution, but I do think he's an excellent option for the short term while the WWE try and build up their next <s>Hogan</s>/Austin/Rocky/Cena.


I see it as being the equivalent of the mid 90's when the WWE were in limbo, and had guys like HBK, Bret, Taker, etc., keeping the company afloat, while guys like Austin, Rocky, Hunter, and Foley were being developed to carry what would hopefully be a better era.


Similarly - I think by pushing Orton as the top guy for the interim, it allows guys like Reigns, Owens, Cesaro, etc., to develop properly until they are a little more ready (or when the WWE feels that they are ready).

[Simple Fan]

Yes the rest of 2015 should be a RKO fest.

[Heyman]

Yes the rest of 2015 should be a RKO fest.



Again - it's certainly not the most desirable situation for the WWE, but I do think Orton is the best option at current in terms of compromising between what Management wants and what the fans want.


From a wrestling standpoint, I think Orton vs. Lesnar has the potential to really deliver big time.

[Sixx]

Where's the "stima is gay" option?

This poll sucks. Like stima.

[Simple Fan]

A F5 reversed into a RKO outta nowhere would blow the roof off the place. Lesner / Orton needs to happen at some point.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Gonna hope they do something to push Ambrose, but not holding my breath.

[Heyman]

Gonna hope they do something to push Ambrose, but not holding my breath.



Ambrose would be terrific, but I think he's in the same boat as Cesaro, in that, Vince simply doesn't see him as being "that guy" for whatever reason.


It's unfortunate, but it appears to be reality. I'm not holding my breath either.

[#1-norm-fan]

For the "short term future", I'd be totally for Orton getting a nice run on top while they try to build up other guys. I fucking hate the idea of throwing guys into that spot/giving them a title run to try to see if it works. It only serves to devalue the title and make it less meaningful for everyone who wins it after. That's one of the reasons the title isn't nearly the draw that it used to be. So while they search for a longer term solution, Orton being treated as "the man" instead of just a guy putting others over in the long run is definitely a way to go.

[Heyman]

For the "short term future", I'd be totally for Orton getting a nice run on top while they try to build up other guys. I fucking hate the idea of throwing guys into that spot/giving them a title run to try to see if it works. It only serves to devalue the title and make it less meaningful for everyone who wins it after. That's one of the reasons the title isn't nearly the draw that it used to be. So while they search for a longer term solution, Orton being treated as "the man" instead of just a guy putting others over in the long run is definitely a way to go.



I completely agree with this 1000% Couldn't have said it better.


Hopefully, the WWE learned their lesson with Roman Reigns, but I doubt they did.

[Damian Rey]

I'd love another run for Orton. His status as "the man" on Smackdown back in the day was great, and lead to a very well built Mark Henry push. I agree with both fan and Heyman here. Give Orton the strap and build him back up. Atone for that God awful run they gave him two years ago.

[Rammsteinmad]

I don't mind Orton as a defending champion, because he's a main eventer "at that level", but he isn't built up to the level of Cena/Lesnar etc. So Orton is able to mix it up with guys like Cesaro/Bryan/Rollins etc, without making it seem so one-sided.

[Rammsteinmad]

I'm also surprised that in all his years back in WWE, we still haven't seen Lesnar take on Orton. Orton seems like such an afterthought these days.

[Blonde Moment]

Is it possible that Ortons shoulder injury is chronic hence the reason they really haven't been pushing him for some time?

[The CyNick]

Now that Rollins has got past Lesnar, I really see no reason to take the title off of him until Mania.

I like Orton as a babyface, but I dont think he should be the answer for anything right now.

Mania should be about getting over the babyface that will carry the company for 2016. Whether that be Lesnar or Reigns or someone else. I just dont think Orton should be that guy.

Just judging by how Reigns has been removed from the WWE title picture, it makes me think he's still their long term guy.

[Heyman]

Now that Rollins has got past Lesnar, I really see no reason to take the title off of him until Mania.

I like Orton as a babyface, but I dont think he should be the answer for anything right now.

Mania should be about getting over the babyface that will carry the company for 2016. Whether that be Lesnar or Reigns or someone else. I just dont think Orton should be that guy.

Just judging by how Reigns has been removed from the WWE title picture, it makes me think he's still their long term guy.

Good point about Rollins. I agree with you completely that Mania' should be about getting over the babyface that will carry the company for 2016. I would love for it to be Brock, but the obvious problem is that he's a part-time worker......and so can he ever really be that guy?

Given the negative way the fans reacted to Roman Reigns this past year, do you have reason to believe things will be different this time around? I'm not so sure.

I have no problem with Seth Rollins continuing to dominate until Mania', but there needs to be a strong enough babyface (that is consistently around) to oppose Rollins at some point.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have a feeling that John Cena will be defending the WWE World Title at WrestleMania next year. I do think they want to give Seth Rollins a great run, but I see it coming to an end around Survivor Series or the Royal Rumble. I can see Rollins vs. Ambrose vs. Reigns happening at WrestleMania, but I can't see the WWE having the confidence to have it over the World Title.

It's quite possible that Ambrose beats Sheamus for the Money in the Bank briefcase, Reigns wins the Royal Rumble again and we head into the Triple Threat that way. Or something.

Lesnar vs. Austin is the biggest match the WWE can possibly do, and I think Vince should be having real serious talks with Austin about what it would take to get him back. It wouldn't need the title involved. If they can't get Austin to work Mania though, I could see Lesnar facing someone like Chris Jericho. Someone who doesn't mind actually heeling it up and generating the heat needed to make people actually pay to see them get their ass kicked. Is Jericho interested in another WrestleMania program?

[Damian Rey]

Think the better question is whether or not people are interested in another Jericho program, which I'm not. I like Jericho and all, but he's become less and less significant as time has gone on and his returns after his run with Punk have been less and less meaningful.

I'd rather see Lesnar go into Mania going after the strap against Rollins or even Cena and walk out as champ. Feel like Lesnar is the only guy on the roster, other than Cena of course, who's an instant main event match waiting to happen. Have him win the rumble in the most dominating performance ever then just let him run through whoever is champ at Mania, whether that be Rollins, Cena or Orton

[#1-norm-fan]

Jericho isn't a Brock Lesnar WrestleMania opponent at this point. He's in a weird spot where he's still very over but he's been a "part time jobber" so long that he's just not realistically on Lesnar's level and I don't think they could even build him back up to that level. He's an IC Title picture part-timer. Not a Lesnar/World title level one.

[Damian Rey]

He could be fed to Lesnar at a lesser ppv but but not as a Mania opponent. The unfortunate thing about Lesnar being as protected as he has been is there's literally no one right now who could believable dethrone him and trying to figure out how you build someone up enough to stop him is a task in and of itself.

[#1-norm-fan]

It's more of a task because the current writers are inept. When you find your guy it should be relatively simple to build him up as the guy to topple Lesnar.

[Damian Rey]

I agree however,like you mentioned, the ineptitude of the current creative team has dug them a hole they have zero idea of how to get out of

Case in point, we've all discussed the rumor of Taker beating Lesnar at Summer Slam, which is silly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Jericho isn't a Brock Lesnar WrestleMania opponent at this point. He's in a weird spot where he's still very over but he's been a "part time jobber" so long that he's just not realistically on Lesnar's level and I don't think they could even build him back up to that level. He's an IC Title picture part-timer. Not a Lesnar/World title level one.

I agree that Jericho isn't there at the moment, but I actually think they could come up with a very intriguing program for them, with Jericho playing UBER-heel.

It'd start with Beast in the East (which is done and dusted). Jericho made his triumphant return to the WWE, but the whole show was based around Brock Lesnar. This eats at Jericho. For a long time. He's spent years in professional wrestling, and yet Brock Lesnar took the industry he clawed away at in, cashed in and now takes the marquee.

No one is going to buy Jericho playing fair and square with Brock, so he becomes the most dickish person in the world to Brock. It becomes a game of master-chess, with Jericho essentially having a plan to cause Brock grief at every moment. Maybe it first starts with a Highlight Reel with Paul Heyman, where they discuss Jericho being an early Paul Heyman Guy, and it ends with Jericho basically ripping on Heyman and Brock, then putting Heyman in the Walls of Jericho.

Jericho does things like attack Brock from behind, beat up some of Brock's only friends, insults Brock's wife, and highlights that Brock claims beating The Undertaker at WrestleMania was impressive, but Jericho beat Austin and Rock in the same night.

I'm not saying I can't think of a bigger Brock program, but if we got the Jericho we saw from the Shawn Michaels and Rey Mysterio feuds antagonizing Brock with the sure-footedness of an old pro who thinks he's got The Beast all figured out, I'm sure we'd at least get an exciting program.

[Heyman]

Personally, I think Brock being wasted on an old part-timer in Jericho is pointless. Lesnar shoul be going up against whoever the WWE thinks will be their next John Cena (i.e. Reigns, Rollins, etc.).


Jericho should be used against a mid-card guy that has a solid shot of joining "the big boys" (i.e. Cesaro).

[Johnny Vegas]

Randy Orton can work really well, as long as he is shown to have different shades of personality. For example (and i know its small), when he and Reigns were in the ring a little time ago and New Day interrupted them, their song hit and you saw Randy nodding his head to their song like he was "feeling the beat". I thought that sht was hilarious, and instantly thought to myself "man, keep him as this normal guy who doesn't just sit in dark corners all day waiting for RKO victims but will definitely get serious...like Brock Lesnar serious". He's the only one at this point. But also make sure if he does capture the title, you make him lose occasionally (usually the interference, unrealistic odds against him type stuff) like they did SCSA, Rock, and Angle. This way he doesn't get overpushed and shoved down our throats and still has fans behind him. Also gives a rub to whoever beat him since most in the upper green card can use it.

[Johnny Vegas]

I think an Orton/Lesnar fued going into WrestleMania next year would be f'n awesome. Both totally play the aggressor really well and Orton's finisher is so "out of nowhere" that you can take him serious enough. I would LOVE to see that as a title match. I feel like nowadays, the green guys get thrown into the main event at WM to get a "WM rub"...well it doesn't really have that effect that people think it does anymore, imo.

Instead of trying to force people to like some of these guys, they need to have storylines that have fans cheering/boo'ing them. It's called creative writing. I'm not saying i know everything about the wrestling business, but c'mon, this is basically male soap-opera. Think of everyday things that people go through and make storylines out of it. Doesn't have to be some outrageous sht like Katie Vick, the authority v. ______, etc. I would rather HHH not even have that much TV time. He needs to be how Vince was between 01' - '04 or so where when he did show up, people actually cheered/reacted because he wasn't in their faces every week.

Storylines like lingering injuries that opponents "target" (ala DDP and his ribs), someone trying to get every title within a year, someone saying they can partner with ANYONE and get the tag titles, someone trying to get at one of the Divas..like something that can last long-term (doesn't have to be real-life) like a valet. I miss Macho Man/Elizabeth....anyway, undefeated streaks, can beat someone in this amount of time, playing commentary during their opponents matches..i mean i could go on and on

[The CyNick]

Good point about Rollins. I agree with you completely that Mania' should be about getting over the babyface that will carry the company for 2016. I would love for it to be Brock, but the obvious problem is that he's a part-time worker......and so can he ever really be that guy?

Given the negative way the fans reacted to Roman Reigns this past year, do you have reason to believe things will be different this time around? I'm not so sure.

I have no problem with Seth Rollins continuing to dominate until Mania', but there needs to be a strong enough babyface (that is consistently around) to oppose Rollins at some point.

Reigns reminds me exactly of Cena.

Cena was beloved by the smark crowd, then he actually got pushed to the top and people started to turn on him. Even to this day, he busts his ass more than anyone else on the roster and those fans hate him. Never understood it.

Reigns was similar in that the smarks were pointing to him being the breakout star of The Shield, then when he was pushed, those same people turned on him. The only reasoning with him, I can come up with is that WWE screwed up by having Daniel Bryan come back for the Royal Rumble. The smark fans were still in love with DB, and no matter who won, they were going to be crapped on. Its almost like the crowd knew the booking, and were just determined to reject it, because it didnt involve Daniel Bryan. Whats funny about the whole thing is WWE has been proven right to not go all the way with him because it looks like his body cant handle the rigor of being a headliner.

My theory with Reigns is the same fans who chant "Lets go Cena" are cheering Reigns. Its the part of the crowd that chants "Cena sucks" that dont seem to be with him at the moment. Personally, I would never book to cater to those people. Those people are like us, we will watch no mater what. I think they are taking things a little slower with Reigns, but eventually he will be back in a headlining position.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The thing is that crowds are generally becoming smart to an extent. More and more people at least THINK they know what is going on, so crowds are rebuking against being force-fed pet projects. Reigns will be a star one way or another, but the strong push doesn't work for guys these days. Bad booking is the new face push.

[Fignuts]

I miss shaved head psychotic viper orton. That was the best.

[GD]

I loved the recent RAW main event where Orton teamed up with Cena and Cesaro. A tag team combination of a ruthless Cena and a jolly Orton would do wonders for the tag team division.

[Damian Rey]

I could see the tweener Orton getting hot to the point of headlining Mania against Lesnar. They could easily book it as a match that really hasn't happened,outside of Orton's rookie year. It'd be an incredibly fresh, possibly interesting main event program with Orton going i.e.d. and hell bent on beating Lesnar the Terminator could be amazing.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I still remember, I think the night after WM XX, Orton challenged Rock (or vice-versa) and the one of them who was challenged by the other turned it down.

I was fucking devastated. Dunno why, but I wanted to see that match go down in the worst way.

Still think they missed a golden opportunity never having Rock face HBK one on one, too.

[Heyman]

Reigns reminds me exactly of Cena.

Cena was beloved by the smark crowd, then he actually got pushed to the top and people started to turn on him. Even to this day, he busts his ass more than anyone else on the roster and those fans hate him. Never understood it.


Kids still love Cena. I remember way back in 2007 when Cena was getting booed loudly, I contemplated the idea of a Cena heel turn. That year, I ended up moving abroad and lived in South Korea for one year, and I saw first hand as to how much kids loved him over there. Was unreal.

Reigns was similar in that the smarks were pointing to him being the breakout star of The Shield, then when he was pushed, those same people turned on him. The only reasoning with him, I can come up with is that WWE screwed up by having Daniel Bryan come back for the Royal Rumble. The smark fans were still in love with DB, and no matter who won, they were going to be crapped on. Its almost like the crowd knew the booking, and were just determined to reject it, because it didnt involve Daniel Bryan. Whats funny about the whole thing is WWE has been proven right to not go all the way with him because it looks like his body cant handle the rigor of being a headliner. I'm not sure if I quite agree with this. Bryan has(d) been wrestling for many years, and shit can happen at anytime when you push yourself to that extreme. By that logic, Edge and Austin weren't truly main-event calibre since their careers were ultimately cut short by injury.


As far as Reigns goes, I definitely agree with you that he has "the look" (much like Cena), but unlike Cena, Reigns isn't particularly "insanely over" with one particular demographic.......like Cena is with kids for instance. With that in mind, I'm inclined to agree with TPWW poster Noid that the WWE needs to be careful in how they re-push Reigns if they choose to go this route.


Another topic of discussion as far as "the look" goes: I think at some point, the WWE has to make a conscious decision to change this outdated philosophy for two reasons:


1) The Age of Social Media: As you and Noid point out, in today's wrestling world, most fans are confident in their own belief of "what's really going on," due to Social Media, dirt sheets, etc. Therefore - if the fans feel like a guy like Roman Reigns, Dave Batista, or whoever is only getting pushed because of their "look" or if they're "Vince's boy," then it could result in massive backlash.


2) Wrestling morale backstage (i.e. "the brass ring" speech): One thing that guys like Vince and Jim Ross often point out, is that most wrestlers these days are just happy to be on TV, whereas in the Attitude era, most wrestlers were driven to be "the guy" and the alphamale superstar of the company.


My personal feeling is this: One major reason why we're seeing less guys trying to grab "the brass ring," is because wrestlers now know that there can only really be one, maybe two, alpha male superstar(s) of a given era, and that often times, a large determining factor has to do with "the look."


If the WWE can somehow get away from this philosophy, I think you'll see more guys getting hungry and going after "the brass ring" as wrestlers did during the attitude era.


Society today, as a whole, is far more liberal and accepting of people's differences than it was back in the day (i.e. gays getting legally married, less bullying in school, a black man being President, etc., etc.). I know those are weird analogies to bring up, but the point I'm trying to illustrate is that society is far more "liberal" and "accepting" than it once was.


In other words - if the WWE were to push a guy like Dean Ambrose or Bray Wyatt to the top (i.e. guys that don't necessarily have "the look,"), I think the fans would be far more accepting of this in this new age.

[GD]

I still remember, I think the night after WM XX, Orton challenged Rock (or vice-versa) and the one of them who was challenged by the other turned it down.

I was fucking devastated. Dunno why, but I wanted to see that match go down in the worst way.

Still think they missed a golden opportunity never having Rock face HBK one on one, too.

I agree with you, Mr. iNATOR. While Orton did get to face The Rock in "tag team action", I would've loved to have seen them "get it on" in singles action.

As far as my memory serves, The Rock never showed interest in working with Shawn Michaels due to events in the past (lots of speculation on the inter webs).

[The CyNick]

Kids still love Cena. I remember way back in 2007 when Cena was getting booed loudly, I contemplated the idea of a Cena heel turn. That year, I ended up moving abroad and lived in South Korea for one year, and I saw first hand as to how much kids loved him over there. Was unreal.

I'm not sure if I quite agree with this. Bryan has(d) been wrestling for many years, and shit can happen at anytime when you push yourself to that extreme. By that logic, Edge and Austin weren't truly main-event calibre since their careers were ultimately cut short by injury.


As far as Reigns goes, I definitely agree with you that he has "the look" (much like Cena), but unlike Cena, Reigns isn't particularly "insanely over" with one particular demographic.......like Cena is with kids for instance. With that in mind, I'm inclined to agree with TPWW poster Noid that the WWE needs to be careful in how they re-push Reigns if they choose to go this route.


Another topic of discussion as far as "the look" goes: I think at some point, the WWE has to make a conscious decision to change this outdated philosophy for two reasons:


1) The Age of Social Media: As you and Noid point out, in today's wrestling world, most fans are confident in their own belief of "what's really going on," due to Social Media, dirt sheets, etc. Therefore - if the fans feel like a guy like Roman Reigns, Dave Batista, or whoever is only getting pushed because of their "look" or if they're "Vince's boy," then it could result in massive backlash.


2) Wrestling morale backstage (i.e. "the brass ring" speech): One thing that guys like Vince and Jim Ross often point out, is that most wrestlers these days are just happy to be on TV, whereas in the Attitude era, most wrestlers were driven to be "the guy" and the alphamale superstar of the company.


My personal feeling is this: One major reason why we're seeing less guys trying to grab "the brass ring," is because wrestlers now know that there can only really be one, maybe two, alpha male superstar(s) of a given era, and that often times, a large determining factor has to do with "the look."


If the WWE can somehow get away from this philosophy, I think you'll see more guys getting hungry and going after "the brass ring" as wrestlers did during the attitude era.


Society today, as a whole, is far more liberal and accepting of people's differences than it was back in the day (i.e. gays getting legally married, less bullying in school, a black man being President, etc., etc.). I know those are weird analogies to bring up, but the point I'm trying to illustrate is that society is far more "liberal" and "accepting" than it once was.


In other words - if the WWE were to push a guy like Dean Ambrose or Bray Wyatt to the top (i.e. guys that don't necessarily have "the look,"), I think the fans would be far more accepting of this in this new age.

Yeah but whats the problem with the backlash? Cena gets booed out building, and usually the bigger the city, the larger % of the crowd that is against him. But they still chant for him, he's still far and away the most over guy on the active roster. So if the backlash is people continuously buy tickets and merchandise, I'm sure WWE would love to have 3 more guys like that.

The alphamale thing is bit of revisionist history. For example, do we think The Rock reached greater heights than Randy Orton because Rock wanted it more? Or do we just think Rock was more charismatic, and connected with the people better? I think the business is much much different than it was when Steve and Rocky were coming up. Back then guys were protected more, so you could break from the pack. Nowadays guys seem to be rushed to the top of the card, and then take a couple steps back, and kinda waffle between mid card and occasional headlining. Thats more to do with booking than having alpha males.

For me I still look at wrestling like a live action comic book. Comic book heroes by and large are larger than life. I just dont think guys in baggy pants or tshirts come off as larger than life. Sure they will get over with the fans that will come to wrestling events no matter what, but those guys wont drive WWE network subs to 2 million.

[#1-norm-fan]

Looking back, The Rock was booked like shit for most of his run. He was the first megastar who had a knack for not backing up his shit talk and losing a lot... and lo and behold, the fans turned on him. Despite him being The fucking Rock. Bad booking goes a long way in ruining even the most likeable characters.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Roman Reigns would make an amazing heel. Just saying. He can turn face once the people are really hungry for it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah but whats the problem with the backlash? Cena gets booed out building, and usually the bigger the city, the larger % of the crowd that is against him. But they still chant for him, he's still far and away the most over guy on the active roster. So if the backlash is people continuously buy tickets and merchandise, I'm sure WWE would love to have 3 more guys like that.

The alphamale thing is bit of revisionist history. For example, do we think The Rock reached greater heights than Randy Orton because Rock wanted it more? Or do we just think Rock was more charismatic, and connected with the people better? I think the business is much much different than it was when Steve and Rocky were coming up. Back then guys were protected more, so you could break from the pack. Nowadays guys seem to be rushed to the top of the card, and then take a couple steps back, and kinda waffle between mid card and occasional headlining. Thats more to do with booking than having alpha males.

For me I still look at wrestling like a live action comic book. Comic book heroes by and large are larger than life. I just dont think guys in baggy pants or tshirts come off as larger than life. Sure they will get over with the fans that will come to wrestling events no matter what, but those guys wont drive WWE network subs to 2 million.

That would be good, but I think a problem is that you have to get the guy to the point where he can move merchandise. To do that, the guy needs to kick down the door first. The WWE have had a few guys that have come close, but due to whatever reason (aborted pushes, not being the company's vision for a top guy, injuries, etc.) they don't really have that money-making face that warrants showcasing regardless of whether or not crowds shit on them or not. John Cena is there, but I'm not sure Roman Reigns is ready to be plugged into that spot. He's still got his journey ahead of him. And he's on it now, so good for him.

There also seems to be a more broad "everyone's a star" mentality in the WWE today. In some ways, I can see that being good for morale; but in others, you kind of end up with a watered down product. In today's WWE, Jack Swagger can be the World Champion one month and stuck on Superstars the next. Then he can get a push, then it can fade away again.

I felt this whilst watching Elimination Chamber this year. As Dolph Ziggler was bumping around the Chamber, I thought to myself: "Man, if this whole match was a story of how Dolph took a beating, hung in there, survived, thrived and emerged victorious -- you'd have a pretty big star-making moment." Ryback winning the title wasn't terrible, mind you, but it really felt like they were holding back the best performer in the match and are afraid to really put a spotlight on certain guys and use them as "pillars" of your product. The show itself is a clothesline of guys you might like to see, but also might not. It's a P.T. Barnum-style variety act, and no one is really urgently about to break through the glass.

[The CyNick]

That would be good, but I think a problem is that you have to get the guy to the point where he can move merchandise. To do that, the guy needs to kick down the door first. The WWE have had a few guys that have come close, but due to whatever reason (aborted pushes, not being the company's vision for a top guy, injuries, etc.) they don't really have that money-making face that warrants showcasing regardless of whether or not crowds shit on them or not. John Cena is there, but I'm not sure Roman Reigns is ready to be plugged into that spot. He's still got his journey ahead of him. And he's on it now, so good for him.

There also seems to be a more broad "everyone's a star" mentality in the WWE today. In some ways, I can see that being good for morale; but in others, you kind of end up with a watered down product. In today's WWE, Jack Swagger can be the World Champion one month and stuck on Superstars the next. Then he can get a push, then it can fade away again.

I felt this whilst watching Elimination Chamber this year. As Dolph Ziggler was bumping around the Chamber, I thought to myself: "Man, if this whole match was a story of how Dolph took a beating, hung in there, survived, thrived and emerged victorious -- you'd have a pretty big star-making moment." Ryback winning the title wasn't terrible, mind you, but it really felt like they were holding back the best performer in the match and are afraid to really put a spotlight on certain guys and use them as "pillars" of your product. The show itself is a clothesline of guys you might like to see, but also might not. It's a P.T. Barnum-style variety act, and no one is really urgently about to break through the glass.

Yeah I agree. It seems WWE has the mentality that they want a bunch of guys who are interchangeable in the spots underneath the top guy. CM Punk gets a big push, but he's not Cena. Daniel Bryan gets a big push, but he's not Cena. Now Reigns.

I just think the issue is, and I've heard Cena say this himself, is they are waiting for that guy to be programmed with Cena and take his spot from him. I guess best example of what they want is when Austin worked with Bret in 1996. Austin was booked to lose the big matches, but each loss he took more of Bret's fans with him. Nobody has been able to do that with Cena.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nvd8fNIs96Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Stickman]

Orton can be great but I feel like he has no personality, he has generally been boring on the mic. Whether face or heel he is generally the same on the mic so I find it hard to get into him. I do love the diamond cutter out of nowhere though, So I do think he could be that top guy while they search for the "next one" even though I would love Cesearo to be the one.