Raw rating lowest since July 2012

[The CyNick]

Raw should move to Sundays so it can TROUNCE Walking Dead in the ratings.

P.S. Walking Dead's ratings have gone up every year over the past 5 seasons despite "TV ratings being down across the board". Raw's have gone down. But we can't make that comparison because Walking Dead isn't on Mondays...

On average dude, on average. I never once said every single TV show is down.

Walking Dead is no different than sports entertainment in the late 90s and early 2000s. You have hardcore fans who follow the show because they were aware of the comics. Then you have a large portion of their viewing audience that is more casual because TWD is the in show. Most TV shows though get in and get out, because they know its next to impossible to be the #1 rated show week in and week out like WWE is.

For record, I never said, nor do I believe WWE would beat TWD is ratings if they were on Sunday. But I just dont think its fair to compare what a show gets on one day and compare it to a show on another day. Its actually funny that some people on here are so desperate to prove this "WWE is doing terrible in terms of ratings" narrative that they have to pick shows from other days of the week and shows on Network TV to use as "evidence" that WWE is struggling. The beginning and end of the story should be "WWE is #1 in viewership most weeks and they are #1 in the most important demo to advertisers". But some people have problems accepting the truth.

[The CyNick]

Then you're as big of a fucking moron as we all think you are.

If you actually think that folks weren't talking about Raw and SD being can't miss television and that WWE didn't have more mainstream appeal, buzz and exposure during the Attitude era days, then you're a moron, because you either weren't paying attention, have a horrible memory or are being intentionally dense.

Was it all great? No of course not. No show is perfect. The fact is though, WWE had substantially more much mainstream appeal and buzz because of the quality of the writing/booking/product back then. The shows of today that I listed have more mainstream buzz and appeal than Raw or SD because their quality is better.

The fact that WWE has to write 5 hours of television a week is a cop out for laziness and ineptitude by the folks in charge. The fact is the poor quality wouldn't (and shouldn't) be tolerated in another competitive company or with a CEO who wasn't so arrogant and/or out of touch.

Maybe in your hometown WWE and WCW were all the rage at schools and on the street. Where I grew up, very few people even mentioned it. I knew 2 or 3 guys who were big fans in high school, and that was it. 90210 was trendy and people talked about it. Sports was always big and talked about. But not sports entertainment. Dont get all pissy because you had a different experience.

LOL I'm guessing you have never done anything creative in your life. So I'm not sure you are the go to expert on judging how easy or difficult it is to write 5 hours of television every week.

Quality in the arts is subjective. The only things that matters for a TV show is A) are people watching - Yes big time for WWE B) are the right people watching - Yes #1 in key demo and C) can the network sell ad space on your show - Yes Yes Yes!

We get it, you dont like the show. You like the Murderer show or whatever. Cool man. Lots of people still enjoy RAW every week. Smackdown too!

[The CyNick]

Smackdown this week was #1 18-49.

3rd in viewership to two US presidential debate focused shows. Both skewed with massive numbers for people 50+

Was looking at some other numbers. NBA Gane of the night did almost a 1/3 of the viewers of SD. So I guess the NBA is producing a terrible product. No sign of Family Guy re-runs.

[#1-norm-fan]

On average dude, on average. I never once said every single TV show is down.

You've used it as an excuse for why WWE's ratings are down. Walking Dead's ratings have consistently gone up. Tends to happen when you keep your product compelling. You draw in more viewers instead of losing them at a steady pace. CyNick doesn't comprehend well example #374.

Walking Dead is no different than sports entertainment in the late 90s and early 2000s. You have hardcore fans who follow the show because they were aware of the comics. Then you have a large portion of their viewing audience that is more casual because TWD is the in show. Most TV shows though get in and get out, because they know its next to impossible to be the #1 rated show week in and week out like WWE is.

For record, I never said, nor do I believe WWE would beat TWD is ratings if they were on Sunday. But I just dont think its fair to compare what a show gets on one day and compare it to a show on another day. Its actually funny that some people on here are so desperate to prove this "WWE is doing terrible in terms of ratings" narrative that they have to pick shows from other days of the week and shows on Network TV to use as "evidence" that WWE is struggling. The beginning and end of the story should be "WWE is #1 in viewership most weeks and they are #1 in the most important demo to advertisers". But some people have problems accepting the truth.

You can keep asserting that the night of the week makes it unfair all you want. Your inability to actually give a reason is pretty telling though. If Raw were on Friday or Saturday nights, then you might have a point. There's no discernible difference between Monday and Sunday that would viewership plummet from one night to another. It's comparable. I know it's uncomfortable for you to admit but it is.

And holy fuck, are you just gonna resort to wordplay and flat out lying at this point? lol Raw is not #1 in viewership most weeks. It's #1 in viewership most Mondays facing off against Love and Hip Hop. Congrats. And even then... IT ISN'T #1 IN THE MOST IMPORTANT DEMO. It loses weekly to Love and Hip Hop in the 18-49 demo. Every Monday. How are you even attempting a flat out lie like that on a fact that is so easy to look up? lol

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Its actually funny that some people on here are so desperate to prove this "WWE is doing terrible in terms of ratings" narrative that they have to pick shows from other days of the week and shows on Network TV to use as "evidence" that WWE is struggling. The beginning and end of the story should be "WWE is #1 in viewership most weeks and they are #1 in the most important demo to advertisers". But some people have problems accepting the truth.

Shut the fuck up you idiot.

Nobody thinks they are doing "terrible", they are just pulling mediocre MEH ratings because they can just maintain the status quo and that's okay for their bottom line.

You are honestly a giant piece of shit. Just go away already.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And holy fuck, are you just gonna resort to wordplay and flat out lying at this point? lol Raw is not #1 in viewership most weeks. It's #1 in viewership most Mondays facing off against Love and Hip Hop. Congrats. And even then... IT ISN'T #1 IN THE MOST IMPORTANT DEMO. It loses weekly to Love and Hip Hop in the 18-34 demo. Every Monday. How are you even attempting a flat out lie like that on a fact that is so easy to look up? lol

Well I don't know how you expect him to acknowledge your facts with all that dickcheese in his mouth.

[#1-norm-fan]

Smackdown this week was #1 18-49.

3rd in viewership to two US presidential debate focused shows. Both skewed with massive numbers for people 50+

Was looking at some other numbers. NBA Gane of the night did almost a 1/3 of the viewers of SD. So I guess the NBA is producing a terrible product. No sign of Family Guy re-runs.

No sign at all huh? Are you reading the ratings from the official WWE apologist website? Because if you look at the ACTUAL ratings...

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/02/05/thursday-cable-ratings-feb-4-2016/

lol Excited to watch you awkwardly avoid this now.

[The CyNick]

No sign at all huh? Are you reading the ratings from the official WWE apologist website? Because if you look at the ACTUAL ratings...

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/02/05/thursday-cable-ratings-feb-4-2016/

lol Excited to watch you awkwardly avoid this now.

Lol you're too much

Those episodes are not even in the prime time window. You're comparing apples to oranges. Smackdown dominated it in viewers.

And interested in hearing you dispute the SD was NUMBER ONE IN THE KEY DEMO.

[#1-norm-fan]

I... I just... Are you shitting me right now? IT'S RIGHT FUCKING THERE! Read the first sentence of the page, FFS! lol

Are you now saying Family Guy reruns had an unfair advantage because it WASN'T in prime time? Holy fuck...

[The CyNick]

You've used it as an excuse for why WWE's ratings are down. Walking Dead's ratings have consistently gone up. Tends to happen when you keep your product compelling. You draw in more viewers instead of losing them at a steady pace. CyNick doesn't comprehend well example #374.



You can keep asserting that the night of the week makes it unfair all you want. Your inability to actually give a reason is pretty telling though. If Raw were on Friday or Saturday nights, then you might have a point. There's no discernible difference between Monday and Sunday that would viewership plummet from one night to another. It's comparable. I know it's uncomfortable for you to admit but it is.

And holy fuck, are you just gonna resort to wordplay and flat out lying at this point? lol Raw is not #1 in viewership most weeks. It's #1 in viewership most Mondays facing off against Love and Hip Hop. Congrats. And even then... IT ISN'T #1 IN THE MOST IMPORTANT DEMO. It loses weekly to Love and Hip Hop in the 18-49 demo. Every Monday. How are you even attempting a flat out lie like that on a fact that is so easy to look up? lol

i already addressed the demo thing. RAW wins every week with men 18-49, the hip hop show wins with women. The total 18-49 number is razor close. Vh1 has less distribution, so RAW draws more viewers in total and most likely 18-49 as well. Pay me a consulting fee and I will teach you the nuances of ratings. It will prevent you from looking dumb.

[#1-norm-fan]

Smackdown this week was #1 18-49.

“Family Guy” and “American Dad” reruns grabbed the top spots in this week’s Thursday cable ratings with 1.0 and 0.9 ratings in adults 18-49. Meanwhile, “WWE Smackdown” fell one tenth from its 0.9 rating last week to a 0.8, but still managed to claim the top non-rerun spot in the rankings.


And interested in hearing you dispute the SD was NUMBER ONE IN THE KEY DEMO.

Am I dreaming this shit right now!? You can't be this retarded! lol

[The CyNick]

I... I just... Are you shitting me right now? IT'S RIGHT FUCKING THERE! Read the first sentence of the page, FFS! lol

Are you now saying Family Guy reruns had an unfair advantage because it WASN'T in prime time? Holy fuck...

its not about unfair advantage. Its you not understanding what you are reading.

A 1.0 in 18-49 is not the same as a 1.0 at 8PM. You have fewer viewers watching TV past 11PM. Thats why advertisers care most about the 8PM-11PM window, because thats when the most people are watching TV.

At the end of the day an advertiser will care about the total audience and the 18-49 audience. Smackdown did roughly 2.7 million viewers. Even though FG got a 0.1 higher 18-49 rating, because fewer people had their TV on, they actually had LESS viewers than SD.

I understand this can be a complicated topic, so its understandable you keep looking bad.

[#1-norm-fan]

i already addressed the demo thing. RAW wins every week with men 18-49, the hip hop show wins with women. The total 18-49 number is razor close. Vh1 has less distribution, so RAW draws more viewers in total and most likely 18-49 as well. Pay me a consulting fee and I will teach you the nuances of ratings. It will prevent you from looking dumb.

We get it. The most important demo is whichever specific one fits your argument best. Not 18-49 because that's bad for your argument. 18-49 men. And Smackdown beats Family Guy in the MOST MOST important demo of 18-49 males who are wrestling fans. Understood. Now moving on...

See my post above. Are you retarded?

[#1-norm-fan]

You are literally wrong. It was literally not #1 for the night in the key demo. Literally.

And the shifting of the goalposts for what the key demo is when it comes to Raw is pretty ridiculous.

[The CyNick]

We get it. The most important demo is whichever specific one fits your argument best. Not 18-49 because that's bad for your argument. 18-49 men. And Smackdown beats Family Guy in the MOST MOST important demo of 18-49 males who are wrestling fans. Understood. Now moving on...

See my post above. Are you retarded?

Bud you just dont understand how the business works. Its comical at this point.

This whole thread should automatically be linked to your profile so people can see how uneducated on the matter you are.

You just read 1.0 and think "oh 1.0 is bigger than 0.9, so 1.0 must be better". But its not. If you think Family Guy had more viewers 18-49 than Smackdown, well that would just precious.

[The CyNick]

You are literally wrong. It was literally not #1 for the night in the key demo. Literally.

And the shifting of the goalposts for what the key demo is when it comes to Raw is pretty ridiculous.

In the TV business nobody would compare a show at 11PM to 12AM to a show between 8PM and 10PM.

If you brought in that argument to a meeting about how ad dollars would spent on TV you would be laughed out of the building and likely fired on the spot.

[The CyNick]

Also no shifting about RAW.

The problem is you dont have all the information. You go to one website and you think you know everything. There are more details to understand.

Ive never claimed WWE does the best rating, I always talk about viewership. And when you look further into the numbers you would see for men 18-49 RAW more than doubles the rating (not viewership) that Love and Hip Hop does, but Love and Hip Hop more than doubles the women 18-49 rating that RAW does. This week it netted out better for Hip Hop because a lot of people were watching election coverage, and that rating skews more towards men. So RAW will be more impacted because its show relies more heavily on men.

[#1-norm-fan]

Smackdown this week was #1 18-49.

“Family Guy” and “American Dad” reruns grabbed the top spots in this week’s Thursday cable ratings with 1.0 and 0.9 ratings in adults 18-49.

Just gonna quote that from now on. Family Guy got the bigger share. It was #1. You can claim you were narrowing it down all you want. You've done it before. I'll trust this site over CyNick when it comes to which show was tops in the demographic for Thursday night.

[The CyNick]

In terms of viewers. RAW did 3.6 million at 8PM and Love and Hip Hop did 2.6 million viewers at the same time.

[#1-norm-fan]

In terms of viewers. RAW did 3.6 million at 8PM and Love and Hip Hop did 2.6 million viewers at the same time.

Please point out to me at what point the total viewers of these two shows were disputed.

[The CyNick]

Just gonna quote that from now on. Family Guy got the bigger share. It was #1. You can claim you were narrowing it down all you want. You've done it before. I'll trust this site over CyNick when it comes to which show was tops in the demographic for Thursday night.

Staying ignorant I see

Its cool.

[The CyNick]

Please point out to me at what point the total viewers of these two shows were disputed.

I'm just helping everyone understand the facts. You're a lost cause.

[#1-norm-fan]

More kids and men watch Raw than Love and Hip Hop.

POP OPEN THE CHAMPAGNE!

They can keep hitting new milestone low ratings for a couple more years. As long as they're beating Love and Hip Hop in total viewers, it's all good. No reason to put forth any effort.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also no shifting about RAW.

The problem is you dont have all the information. You go to one website and you think you know everything. There are more details to understand.

Ive never claimed WWE does the best rating, I always talk about viewership. And when you look further into the numbers you would see for men 18-49 RAW more than doubles the rating (not viewership) that Love and Hip Hop does, but Love and Hip Hop more than doubles the women 18-49 rating that RAW does. This week it netted out better for Hip Hop because a lot of people were watching election coverage, and that rating skews more towards men. So RAW will be more impacted because its show relies more heavily on men.

No. You're shifting. 18-49 is the key demo. You've admitted as much yourself. But Raw loses in that demo. So you have to shift the key demo to MEN 18-49 so you can say that Raw wins in the key demo despite the fact that they don't. You change the definition so it works for you. It's blatant shifting. lol

[Simple Fan]

https://staticseekingalpha.a.ssl.fastly.net/uploads/2015/12/2/36229206-1449098933444331-Wayne-Duggan.png

[screech]

Didn't know they were sub-3 in 97. I started watching in 98, though.

You're welcome, WWE.

[The CyNick]

More kids and men watch Raw than Love and Hip Hop.

POP OPEN THE CHAMPAGNE!

They can keep hitting new milestone low ratings for a couple more years. As long as they're beating Love and Hip Hop in total viewers, it's all good. No reason to put forth any effort.

RAW actually also does well with people 50+

You keep focusing on the one show. They beat everything in viewership. They beat LAHH in ratings in every demo other than women under 49.

They are also steadily beating the NBA. Is that impressive or is NBA just some random show.

They have two nights a week where they draw more viewers than anything else on cable. Is that something to be happy about?

When you beat everyone on your night, or even say I take your elementary understanding of ratings and say they are top 5 of everything on cable on the nights they are on, would you be happy with that?

If you are USA and you have no other shows that track on cable other than one hour of Suits, would you be happy with FIVE HOURS of most watched programming?

You're so fixated on your narrative that WWE sucks that you are ignoring the facts. And what you think are facts to show WWE is struggling is you saying they are #2 or #3 among 150+ shows that night. You dont know how much I laugh at your posts on this subject.

[The CyNick]

No. You're shifting. 18-49 is the key demo. You've admitted as much yourself. But Raw loses in that demo. So you have to shift the key demo to MEN 18-49 so you can say that Raw wins in the key demo despite the fact that they don't. You change the definition so it works for you. It's blatant shifting. lol

No, its understanding the numbers. Men are more coveted in the advertising world. They make more money and have more to spend. So yes, 18-49 is a key demo, but given the choice, when the numbers are so close, I would rather have the show that appeals to men. Plus, the numbers are not even close when you factor in total viewers, so RAW is going to be the more attractive property for advertisers. Which in turn would generate more money. Which is the reason for TV shows existing.

[The CyNick]

https://staticseekingalpha.a.ssl.fastly.net/uploads/2015/12/2/36229206-1449098933444331-Wayne-Duggan.png

Looking at that chart, the real drop was from 2001 to 2003-04. Since then I would guess the numbers have been pretty steady with cable as a whole. More and more people are going to other sources to consume entertainment. Thats not going to change anytime soon. There are also nuances to the data. For example, are those numbers factoring in LIVE +7. In 1999 that really wasnt a thing, now its huge.

On top of that, you have shorter attention spans, so things like You Tube are used which didnt exists in 1999 as a means for watching TV. We know WWE has one of the most popular You Tube channels. As people get more and more accustomed to seeing ads on You Tube, WWE will be able to turn that into a massive revenue stream.

[The CyNick]

Shut the fuck up you idiot.

Nobody thinks they are doing "terrible", they are just pulling mediocre MEH ratings because they can just maintain the status quo and that's okay for their bottom line.

You are honestly a giant piece of shit. Just go away already.

"MEH" ratings but them at the top of the heap.

Tough standard you have there

[The CyNick]

Raw should move to Sundays so it can TROUNCE Walking Dead in the ratings.

P.S. Walking Dead's ratings have gone up every year over the past 5 seasons despite "TV ratings being down across the board". Raw's have gone down. But we can't make that comparison because Walking Dead isn't on Mondays...

Season 4 premiere did 16.1 million viewers
Season 5 premiere did 17.3 million viewers
Season 6 premiere did 14.6 million viewers

down approx 15% YoY. Down roughly 10% YTD YoY. Amazing numbers, but your statement is a little off.

But good try little buddy.

[Fignuts]

Oh my fucking god it's television ratings, who gives a fuck?

[Simple Fan]

I just love how CyNick goes on about WWE ad revenues and shit when no one is questioning wether they are making money. The simple fact is WWEs ratings are declining at a steady basis and you cant argue that.

[#1-norm-fan]

P.S. Walking Dead's ratings have gone up every year over the past 5 seasons despite "TV ratings being down across the board". Raw's have gone down. But we can't make that comparison because Walking Dead isn't on Mondays...

Season 4 premiere did 16.1 million viewers
Season 5 premiere did 17.3 million viewers
Season 6 premiere did 14.6 million viewers

down approx 15% YoY. Down roughly 10% YTD YoY. Amazing numbers, but your statement is a little off.

But good try little buddy.

Season 1 average viewers: 5.24 million
Season 2 average viewers: 6.90 million
Season 3 average viewers: 10.40 million
Season 4 average viewers: 13.30 million
Season 5 average viewers: 14.40 million

But yeah, you wanna pick one episode that "proves" your point instead of looking at the entire year. It's the same thing that happens when Raw goes up for one week and you sarcastically ask everyone "does this mean things are good again?"

Just like when the average temperature is higher one year than it was the last it proves global warming is a myth.

Good try, you dumb fuck.

[#1-norm-fan]

Waiting to hear the genius explanation about how advertisers only care about season premiers or something.

[Emperor Smeat]

Didn't know they were sub-3 in 97. I started watching in 98, though.

You're welcome, WWE.

Came extremely close to getting canceled by USA Network at the time which led to the drastic changes that eventually helped WWF beat WCW in the end.

[Mercenary]

Oh my god who the fuck cares!!!? Like seriously do you all take WWE ratings this seriously? Do you guys not have anything else in your life's to worry about besides what's going on in WWE or how they do in ratings every week?

[#1-norm-fan]

I always find it funny when someone comes into a thread on a wrestling message board and takes the time to tell people how they shouldn't be wasting time discussing something trivial in a thread on a wrestling message board.

[Mr. Nerfect]

#fan keeps making bitches out of everyone.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Oh my god who the fuck cares!!!? Like seriously do you all take WWE ratings this seriously? Do you guys not have anything else in your life's to worry about besides what's going on in WWE or how they do in ratings every week?

You know you can just not read the thread you big wang.

[Ruien]

Why is this thread still going on? Seriously, you people are retarded for talking to Cynick still. Of course it is bad to have less viewers than beforr. Everyone knows this but you are all being trolled for like 2 months in the SAME thread.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

we have so little to live for

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But please refer to poe's law.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But if we want to keep going back and forth with him I don't understand what the problem is.

I hate the notion that you obviously think you're too cool Ruien. Who fucking cares if we want to fuck around and argue with CyNick. It's OUR spare time we'll use it how we want. Just because you don't get it doesn't mean it's not fun to us.

[Ruien]

So, you enjoy arguing with someone who does not remotely care one bit? Okay then. Continue typing away to Cynick.

I am so way cooler than you. Sorry :(

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Way to Ruien a good time :shifty:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Man, people are really bothered by talking. I don't know why anyone would come in here if they didn't want to see CyNick schooled.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

So, you enjoy arguing with someone who does not remotely care one bit? Okay then. Continue typing away to Cynick.

I am so way cooler than you. Sorry :(

Well he cares enough to come back and banter back and forth. So we play the game.


I assume you enjoy telling people how much cooler you are than them or else you wouldn't do it.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Man, people are really bothered by talking. I don't know why anyone would come in here if they didn't want to see CyNick schooled.

Or if they wanted to see us schooled if you love the cynick and think he makes great points.

It's the same as sports talk radio, it's a waste of time and you argue the same things but you do it for the banter.

People like Ruien like to be "that guy" because he's so cool and well adjusted. Who fucking cares, it's a wrassling forum, we're shooting the shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why not discuss wrestling on a wrestling forum?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Here's an Emma picture:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLMK7UpWIAAgZ2D.jpg

[#1-norm-fan]

I like how Dale actually tried to be civil with the guy for like a week before he finally had to break down and just go back to the "What the fuck is wrong with you!?" route. lol

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I did the best I could lol. This whole thing is hilarious though. I enjoy getting wrapped up in this stuff. You get annoyed and you talk a bunch of shite and you argue and it's good times. I feel like there is this idea that somehow the likes of Noid, myself and you are losing sleep over this. And it's fine if he's trolling, because if he is he is investing a lot if time in it.

[ron the dial]

it would be more entertaining for those us of reading if the argument would actually progress instead of repeating itself for 10+ pages. the ratings in here are gonna start dropping.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

But if the ratings in this thread drop but are still then other threads, do we all get to high five each other in main page hallway?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The status quo booking of this thread could lead to problems down the road BUT for now, business is good and our merch sakes are thru the roof.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

*everyone high fives in the hallway*

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Caring about these ratings as a fan at all is the true retardation.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't think so at all. Caring about ratings is a good way to web interests between professional wrestling, how it's presented, television, marketing and societal trends. The business side of professional wrestling might not be something everyone is interested in, but some surely are.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's just a talking point and something to reference in regards to the standing of the company and how the product is being received.

There is a value to them, but obviously they don't tell the whole story... just a part of it.

[#1-norm-fan]

STD schooling everyone on what it means to be retarded.

[Ruien]

Or if they wanted to see us schooled if you love the cynick and think he makes great points.

It's the same as sports talk radio, it's a waste of time and you argue the same things but you do it for the banter.

People like Ruien like to be "that guy" because he's so cool and well adjusted. Who fucking cares, it's a wrassling forum, we're shooting the shit.

I struck a nerve with you huh. :wave:

[The CyNick]

Season 1 average viewers: 5.24 million
Season 2 average viewers: 6.90 million
Season 3 average viewers: 10.40 million
Season 4 average viewers: 13.30 million
Season 5 average viewers: 14.40 million

But yeah, you wanna pick one episode that "proves" your point instead of looking at the entire year. It's the same thing that happens when Raw goes up for one week and you sarcastically ask everyone "does this mean things are good again?"

Just like when the average temperature is higher one year than it was the last it proves global warming is a myth.

Good try, you dumb fuck.

Check season 6 ytd vs season 5 ytd and let me know what you find kid

[The CyNick]

#fan keeps making bitches out of everyone.

There's only one bitch in this thread. It's not him or me for that matter. At least he tries to bring something to the table. As wrong as he may be.

[The CyNick]

So, you enjoy arguing with someone who does not remotely care one bit? Okay then. Continue typing away to Cynick.

I am so way cooler than you. Sorry :(

I always enjoy posts like. Sorry we interrupted you curing cancer. Hang on guys Ruien is taking, let's drop everything. I've been on this site for well over 10 years and I have no recollection of your name. Which leads me to believe the amount of relevant things you have said probably equates to zero.

I wish you well in your future endeavors

[The CyNick]

I like how Dale actually tried to be civil with the guy for like a week before he finally had to break down and just go back to the "What the fuck is wrong with you!?" route. lol

What I like is your definition of civil.

[The CyNick]

it would be more entertaining for those us of reading if the argument would actually progress instead of repeating itself for 10+ pages. the ratings in here are gonna start dropping.

I actually singlehandedly popped the territory. I was lurking for a while. Place was dead. The wrestling forum needs me.

[The CyNick]

I don't think so at all. Caring about ratings is a good way to web interests between professional wrestling, how it's presented, television, marketing and societal trends. The business side of professional wrestling might not be something everyone is interested in, but some surely are.

Really only I appear to be. That's why I make the informed points. Everyone else parrots a narrative they heard from other places who feed off selling "the sky is falling stories".

[BigCrippyZ]

Everyone else parrots a narrative they heard from other places who feed off selling "the sky is falling stories".

There you go again doing your zero reading comprehension, moron, troll thing.

Who the hell here has said the sky is falling?

I can't speak for everyone here, but I don't think anyone has said the sky is falling in terms of WWE's finances. All we're saying is that the quality of creative has and is still falling, which in turn could lead to a downturn in WWE's finances long term and in some cases may already have. No one is saying WWE is going under though.

[drave]

Presented chronologically in this very thread. Smeat with the first valid point of discussion (not being sarcastic, etc.)

Not surprised. Even with the dirtsheets teasing Vince and the WWE were in panic mode, RAW felt the same as its been for weeks in terms of lack of meaningful stuff.

Too many potential great things have been squandered (ex. Divas Revolution, Ceasro), too many feuds are just dragging on (ex. Rusev-Zig, Wyatts-Shield Bros, Comic Book feud), and too much focus on the same old stuff every week (ex. constant rematches, Authority promos, Rollins promos, Cena promos).

A rumor floating on Neogaf's wrestling thread for a bit was about the WWE holding off on doing a big "reboot" until after Mania since all they care about right now is legit breaking Mania's attendance record and older stars as the key to it.


Always funny to me when people blame creative for everything. They give two guys a chance to carry the ball, and the viewing audience rejects it. This is why Cena continues to have the ball and deserves to.

That said, I think you have to expect some drop off at this time of year. Its like the time before Mania storylines start to heat up, and football is back. Its a tough time for ratings. And yet, I bet RAW was still one of the most watched things on cable on Monday.

CyNick bringing up a point no one argued. Slik quoted the ratings drop, but we all know Slik and his serious business ONLY journalism skills pertaining to the wrasslin world. And here we are in the middle of the road to Mania and shit is still the same, except HHH is champ :wtf:

The drop-off for football is usually in the 300,000 mark. That's not enough to account for record lows. I think a stale product, a stale format, too long a show, shitty booking and the method of how television is being watched these days all have their part in it.

Noid bringing up the original points of contention.

Here's another way to look at the ratings - RAW was the SECOND MOST watched show on all of cable on Monday

quick - everyone panic!!!

Its amateur journalism to report on TV numbers without understanding the landscape of how people consumer entertainment. But that is par for the course in the industry.

CyNick arguing with someone again, but who? Slik when he R/T the ratings?

There you go again doing your zero reading comprehension, moron, troll thing.

Who the hell here has said the sky is falling?

I can't speak for everyone here, but I don't think anyone has said the sky is falling in terms of WWE's finances. All were saying is that the quality of creative has and is still falling, which in turn could lead to a downturn in WWE's finances long term and in some cases may already have. No one is saying WWE is going under though.

To validate Crip, CyNick said the sky is falling and from what I can tell, no one originally stated that WWE is going under.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I struck a nerve with you huh. :wave:

Not really, I just think you're a little creepy tit and I dislike people who think they are cool.

-edit-

should I say come across as "above it" aka "being that guy". This thread in no way effects you, so you coming in here to tell us we're all a bunch of nerds (which is what you were doing) is not really appropriate and only highlights how much of a disingenuous little twat you are and always have been.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

When did 18-35 become 18-49? I thought 35 was the top of the list of the demo.

[owenbrown]

I thought it was 18-34?

[#1-norm-fan]

Check season 6 ytd vs season 5 ytd and let me know what you find kid

So you're backing away from your braindead attempt at only comparing one episode per season and are trying "this ongoing season is on pace to break the trend". Seriously. Fucking hell.

When you acknowledge how fucking retarded it was to try to compare the season premieres and ignore the overall ratings, dipshit. For once, instead of trying to ignore something stupid you've said in hopes it will be forgotten, I want you to actually acknowledge your retard logic or explain why it wasn't retarded. Go ahead.

[CSL]

I actually singlehandedly popped the territory. I was lurking for a while. Place was dead. The wrestling forum needs me.

lol

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Feel like all this "it was number one on this day" or "such and such beat it out" is just fodder. The fact is, ratings are down for Raw. They're consistently losing viewers and consistently have issues holding viewers.

Regardless of what other shows are doing I can't fathom people giving each other high fives in the hallway when news breaks that last week saw yet another drop in viewers. Doesn't seem like something that'd be viewed as celebratory.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

But who is winning that all important 5-105 demographic???

[Simple Fan]

Doesn't matter look at all the ad revenues man, the ad revenues.

[drave]

But for one season ONLY!

[#1-norm-fan]

http://i.imgur.com/7Hd3n.jpg

[drave]

Maybe the Natty farting angle wasn't so much an angle as it was reality? Reality Era Wrestling!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Would love to see a Nattie heel turn and feud with either Sasha Banks or Becky Lynch.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It might be pretty easy to have Charlotte, Natalya & Paige form a loose heel alliance to go against Sasha Banks, Becky Lynch & Bayley.

[#1-norm-fan]

Gassy Natalya ONLY

[Emperor Smeat]

Monday's episode of WWE RAW, featuring Daniel Bryan's retirement speech in the main event slot, drew 3.726 million viewers. This is up from last week's 3.383 million viewers but down from the over 4 million they drew for the post-Royal Rumble episode two weeks ago.

For this week's show, the first hour drew 3.907 million viewers, the second hour drew 3.905 million viewers and the final hour drew 3.368 million viewers.
Biggest surprise was the really low 3rd hour but maybe also could have pushed near sub-3 numbers without Bryan's retirement spot at the end.

For some comparison, the post-Rumble show was 4.09 million in viewers.

Only the 9pm hour beat out Love & Hip Hop show for the ratings stuff.

EDIT: Some confusion going around the next regarding the long over-run being included or not for ratings and viewership but one of the top ratings sources (ShowBizzDaily) states it was included.

[The CyNick]

I'm guessing nobody bothered to read the financial reports for WWE or listen to Vince himself taking about ratings? Might clear some things up for you gents.

[Big Vic]

I think this thread is about low ratings not WWE's Finances.

[BigCrippyZ]

I'm guessing nobody bothered to read the financial reports for WWE or listen to Vince himself taking about ratings? Might clear some things up for you gents.

So now that WWE has no real competition and ratings are down Vince claims they suddenly don't care about them. How convenient.

Also, sure seems like WWE's investors care about them. Maybe WWE should too.

[drave]

I'm guessing nobody bothered to read the financial reports for WWE or listen to Vince himself taking about ratings? Might clear some things up for you gents.


Which NO ONE, sans yourself, actually gives a fuck about.


Again, it is more of the weekly content that is just so fucking BLEH!!!

This Monday, the go home show before a PPV (which their goal should be to up subscribers) the fucking main event had STROWMAN v..... don't even need to go there.


Just watch it, it was awful.

[Big Vic]

"Let's go out for a burger, I know this really cool place downtown that makes an amazing burger. Has 5/5 on yelp"

"No lets go to McDonalds"

"I want a good tasting burger not something from McDonalds"

"Have you seen their financial reports? They did better business this year than any other year."

[#1-norm-fan]

So you're backing away from your braindead attempt at only comparing one episode per season and are trying "this ongoing season is on pace to break the trend". Seriously. Fucking hell.

When you acknowledge how fucking retarded it was to try to compare the season premieres and ignore the overall ratings then we can move on, dipshit. For once, instead of trying to ignore something stupid you've said in hopes it will be forgotten, I want you to actually acknowledge your retard logic or explain why it wasn't retarded. Go ahead.

One derp at a time, fucker. We'll move on to your new derp after we take care of your old derp. Please acknowledge.

[Emperor Smeat]

Current speculation for this week's ratings and viewers is to expect a low result for both and even a possible new historic-low.

Actual numbers got delayed by a day but early results for last night's Grammy Awards show has it pulling NFL-range type numbers.

[slik]

It was a boring show with a really bad main-event featuring two talents that aren't exactly over huge with their fans. I don't expect the ratings to be pretty, especially for the last quarter.

[drave]

And they aren't huge because they aren't even featured semi-regularly!

Strowman v. Big Show (who cried b/c of The Rock in a "comedy" spot which was awful).

Just for Kane to come up from the ring and have the Wyatt's "running like the New Faces of Fear" should do!!! :|

Worst RAW I have seen in ages. Barely watched while doing other things.

[screech]

But it's okay because WWE is #1 with their mediocre ratings. They can be boring forever!

[BigCrippyZ]

By the way, like CyNick, if Vince truly thinks that ratings don't matter anymore and WWE doesn't care about them, why did Vince randomly come back to TV as a character? What was the point if not to drive up the ratings?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In all fairness to Vince, he needs to be positive at these conferences. I would never expect him to be doom and gloom. He's going to present himself as successful because well.... He is and so is his company.

I appreciated Meltzers reporting of the conference, as it makes the solid points of yeah the company is just fine and the ratings drop means very little short term, but could be very detrimental long term if you can't retain your viewers or garner any new viewership. The streaming excuse iseh at best, as other programming does not suffer the same fate.

[BigCrippyZ]

In all fairness to Vince, he needs to be positive at these conferences. I would never expect him to be doom and gloom. He's going to present himself as successful because well.... He is and so is his company.

I appreciated Meltzers reporting of the conference, as it makes the solid points of yeah the company is just fine and the ratings drop means very little short term, but could be very detrimental long term if you can't retain your viewers or garner any new viewership. The streaming excuse iseh at best, as other programming does not suffer the same fate.

Absolutely. I don't expect Vince to be anything but positive on these calls nor do I expect Vince to be 100% honest, outside of his legal fiduciary duties to be honest with the shareholders regarding finances, obviously.

[rob11]

Raw got 3.6 million in their 1st hour, 3.5 in their 2nd hour, and 3.2 million in their third hour.

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-monday-cable-originals-network-finals-2-15-2016.html

[drave]

YAY NUMBERZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ,,,,,,,

[The CyNick]

By the way, like CyNick, if Vince truly thinks that ratings don't matter anymore and WWE doesn't care about them, why did Vince randomly come back to TV as a character? What was the point if not to drive up the ratings?

Because it fit into the storylines and to drive overall interest in the product.

If you bothered to listen to what Vince said, he talked about how they want to drive overall interest in the product. They cant force the WWE Universe to watch in one particular way. Some like to watch the full show on cable (week in week out the highest watched show on Monday nights), some on You Tube (one of if not the biggest You Tube channel), or the Network (top 5 in its class).

[The CyNick]

There you go again doing your zero reading comprehension, moron, troll thing.

Who the hell here has said the sky is falling?

I can't speak for everyone here, but I don't think anyone has said the sky is falling in terms of WWE's finances. All we're saying is that the quality of creative has and is still falling, which in turn could lead to a downturn in WWE's finances long term and in some cases may already have. No one is saying WWE is going under though.

And again, and this will get glossed over, but your opinion on creative is irrelevant. Just like mine is.

There is no evidence people are no longer consuming the WWE product. So there's no reason to say creative is down. Its just YOUR opinion. Which, again, is irrelevant.

[The CyNick]

I think this thread is about low ratings not WWE's Finances.

Its all been blended together.

[The CyNick]

So now that WWE has no real competition and ratings are down Vince claims they suddenly don't care about them. How convenient.

Also, sure seems like WWE's investors care about them. Maybe WWE should too.

Why do you think companies like WWE try to draw high TV ratings?

[The CyNick]

Which NO ONE, sans yourself, actually gives a fuck about.


Again, it is more of the weekly content that is just so fucking BLEH!!!

This Monday, the go home show before a PPV (which their goal should be to up subscribers) the fucking main event had STROWMAN v..... don't even need to go there.


Just watch it, it was awful.

I wouldnt call the show awful, but I did think the main event was brutal. Not sure why they went with that.

[The CyNick]

"Let's go out for a burger, I know this really cool place downtown that makes an amazing burger. Has 5/5 on yelp"

"No lets go to McDonalds"

"I want a good tasting burger not something from McDonalds"

"Have you seen their financial reports? They did better business this year than any other year."

So in your mind is like TNA the Burger joint getting 5/5 by the 3 or 4 people who live in their parent's basement and are active on Yelp?

[The CyNick]

In all fairness to Vince, he needs to be positive at these conferences. I would never expect him to be doom and gloom. He's going to present himself as successful because well.... He is and so is his company.

I appreciated Meltzers reporting of the conference, as it makes the solid points of yeah the company is just fine and the ratings drop means very little short term, but could be very detrimental long term if you can't retain your viewers or garner any new viewership. The streaming excuse iseh at best, as other programming does not suffer the same fate.

This is the nonsense I am talking about. I was subscribing to Meltzer's rag in 2000, and he was saying the EXACT SAME SHIT then. "Ratings are down 8%, it doesnt mean anything now, but long term it could". Meanwhile every year they grow their TV rights fees. If you want to listen to someone out of their depth, listen to Uncle Dave talk WWE Finances.

[The CyNick]

Absolutely. I don't expect Vince to be anything but positive on these calls nor do I expect Vince to be 100% honest, outside of his legal fiduciary duties to be honest with the shareholders regarding finances, obviously.

He's not there to be a cheerleader. He cant outright lie on these conferences. If he does, WWE will be up shit creek. They are already in hot water when Vince was doing a bit of carny talk when the Network first launched. I think he learned his lesson.

[The CyNick]

Raw got 3.6 million in their 1st hour, 3.5 in their 2nd hour, and 3.2 million in their third hour.

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-monday-cable-originals-network-finals-2-15-2016.html

#1 show on cable on Monday night.

[#1-norm-fan]

When you acknowledge how fucking retarded it was to try to compare the season premieres and ignore the overall ratings then we can move on, dipshit. For once, instead of trying to ignore something stupid you've said in hopes it will be forgotten, I want you to actually acknowledge your retard logic or explain why it wasn't retarded. Go ahead.

You still working on an excuse for this or nah?

[The CyNick]

So you're backing away from your braindead attempt at only comparing one episode per season and are trying "this ongoing season is on pace to break the trend". Seriously. Fucking hell.

When you acknowledge how fucking retarded it was to try to compare the season premieres and ignore the overall ratings, dipshit. For once, instead of trying to ignore something stupid you've said in hopes it will be forgotten, I want you to actually acknowledge your retard logic or explain why it wasn't retarded. Go ahead.

I feel bad for you man.

Let me try to break this down for you.

You claimed The Walking Dead has been growing year after year. I disputed that claim, because its completely false. While ratings are still enormous for the show, it has declined this year (season 6) vs last year (season 5). Thus proving yet again, that you are flat out wrong.

Let me again illustrate.

Let's just look at season premieres:

Season 4: 16.1 million viewers
Season 5: 17.3 million viewers
Season 6: 14.6 million viewers (down 16% year over year)

Let's just look at 2nd half premieres:

Season 4: 15.8 million viewers
Season 5: 15.6 million viewers
Season 6: 13.7 million viewers (down 12% year over year)

Okay, let's look at season to date (aka 9 episodes in per season)

Season 4: 13.3 million viewers
Season 5: 14.7 million viewers
Season 6: 13.3 million viewers (down 10% year over year)

So thats three different ways to look at their ratings this year compared to last. Either way you slice it, they are down year over year. If you would like to show how they are up this year compared to last, I would love to see it.

[The CyNick]

You still working on an excuse for this or nah?

I never ignored anything. I compared season premiere vs season premiere. Shows like this tend to draw their highest ratings for the Season Premiere, the episode after the Winter Break, and the Season Finale. We can look at full season numbers for Season 6 and compare them to Season 5 when they have happened. As of right now, no matter how you look at it, they are down.

I question your understanding of mathematics.

[#1-norm-fan]

The average viewers per season has literally gone up every fucking season. Even if it goes down at the end of this season, the fact that the last 5 years the ratings have gone up proves that "ratings are down across the board" isn't an excuse. Because there's a popular show where the ratings have been going up every year for 5 years while Raw has been in a steady decline.

How the fuck are you still trying to compare certain episodes thinking it DOESN'T make you look retarded? Look at the average ratings for the season, Corky. Average. Takes all the episodes for the season and gives you a precise number that tells you exactly how well the show did as a whole for the season. As opposed to just nitpicking certain episodes to try to make your point. Math, dumbass.

[#1-norm-fan]

Seriously, are you trying to prove a point to anybody else or just convincing yourself? Because I can't imagine there is anyone else who thinks comparing the season premieres of a show as opposed to the overall ratings season-by-season is the proper way to tell whether a show's ratings are improving year-by-year or not.

If you're not trying to prove a point to anyone else, congrats. I'm sure you're reading your own retarded logic, kicking back with a smile and basking in your own derp dee derp.

[The CyNick]

The average viewers per season has literally gone up every fucking season. Even if it goes down at the end of this season, the point that the last 5 years the ratings have gone up proves that "ratings are down across the board" isn't an excuse. Because there's a popular show where the ratings have been going up every year while Raw has been in a steady decline.

How the fuck are you stil trying to compare certain episodes thinking it DOESN'T make you look retarded? Look at the average ratings for the season, Corky. Average. Takes all the episodes for the season and gives you a precise number that tells you how well the show did as a whole for the season. As opposed to just nitpicking certain episodes to try to make your point. Math, dumbass.

Man you're classic

You do realize that the CURRENT season is not over right?

I could look at the entire average of season 5 (14.4 million viewers) and compare it to the 9 episodes thus far in Season 6 (13.3 million viewers). It would help prove my point, but wouldnt be an apples to apples comparison....maybe this is already too far over your head....ah well lets plow through....Its not like I went through and picked a random episode from season 6 and said "oh look episode 3 S6 vs S5 is down". I looked at the AVERAGE 9 episodes into S6 and the AVERAGE 9 episodes into S5. See above...they are down...I see his eyes glazing over...he's not understanding...he's going to call me a name to make himself feel like a tough guy...

[The CyNick]

Seriously, are you trying to prove a point to anybody else or just convincing yourself? Because I can't imagine there is anyone else who thinks comparing the season premieres of a show as opposed to the overall ratings season-by-season is the proper way to tell whether a show's ratings are improving year-by-year or not.

If you're not trying to prove a point to anyone else, congrats. I'm sure you're reading your own retarded logic, kicking back with a smile and basking in your own derp dee derp.

When my point was the CURRENT season is down vs the previous season (which it was), the best way to compare would be year to date. Its literally the only way to compare.

I find it funny that you keep driving this point home, like you have some point here, but you just keep looking more hilarious by the post.

[#1-norm-fan]

Alright, this guy's gotta be a fucking troll. My God.

[The CyNick]

Alright, this guy's gotta be a fucking troll. My God.

Thats already little buddy, you can still have a cookie for trying.

[#1-norm-fan]

Walking Dead's ratings have gone up every year over the past 5 seasons despite "TV ratings being down across the board". Raw's have gone down. But we can't make that comparison because Walking Dead isn't on Mondays...

Season 4 premiere did 16.1 million viewers
Season 5 premiere did 17.3 million viewers
Season 6 premiere did 14.6 million viewers

down approx 15% YoY. Down roughly 10% YTD YoY. Amazing numbers, but your statement is a little off.

But good try little buddy.

Season 1 average viewers: 5.24 million
Season 2 average viewers: 6.90 million
Season 3 average viewers: 10.40 million
Season 4 average viewers: 13.30 million
Season 5 average viewers: 14.40 million

But yeah, you wanna pick one episode that "proves" your point instead of looking at the entire year. It's the same thing that happens when Raw goes up for one week and you sarcastically ask everyone "does this mean things are good again?"

Just like when the average temperature is higher one year than it was the last it proves global warming is a myth.

Good try, you dumb fuck.

Please get someone to read these posts for you like 5 times a day until something clicks. Thank you.

[#1-norm-fan]

BUT LET'S LOOK AT THE SEASON PREMIERE RATINGS! SEE UR WRONG! NICE TRY!!!

*Kick back, shut off brain, smile smugly, derp, fart, blow guy who kinda looks like Vince McMahon, repeat*

[The CyNick]

Please get someone to read these posts for you like 5 times a day until something clicks. Thank you.

Ah, I see, you wanted to have the debate at the END of Season 5.

If you had said every season was up at THAT point, and I disputed you, you would be right (YAY!!!!)...but I didnt, I disputed your claims during Season 6 whilst ratings are down, so you're wrong (AWW).

But keep posting. If you dream it, one day you will make a legitimate point. Keep reaching for the stars lil slugger.

[The CyNick]

On a separate point, global warming is a myth.

[#1-norm-fan]

Walking Dead's ratings have gone up every year over the past 5 seasons despite "TV ratings being down across the board".

Ah, I see, you wanted to have the debate at the END of Season 5.

If you had said every season was up at THAT point, and I disputed you, you would be right (YAY!!!!)...

This is why I said to get someone to read the posts to you, Corky.

[#1-norm-fan]

On a separate point, global warming is a myth.

lol Awesome

[Emperor Smeat]

According to the Observer, this week's RAW managed to be the 2nd lowest in the last 18 years in terms of overall viewers when not counting football or holiday weeks.

Missed out on being the new record by around 90,000 viewers.

In terms of historical stuff, same show last year did around 500k more for viewers. Lowest hour of that show was still around 200k more than the best hour this week.

[Ruien]

It is crazy to see how popular Walking Dead became. My lord.

[Ruien]

According to the Observer, this week's RAW managed to be the 2nd lowest in the last 18 years in terms of overall viewers when not counting football or holiday weeks.

Missed out on being the new record by around 90,000 viewers.

In terms of historical stuff, same show last year did around 500k more for viewers. Lowest hour of that show was still around 200k more than the best hour this week.

Felt like this was a test to see the appeal on Strowman and he failed hard. Did not help he was going against Big Show.

[Big Vic]

So in your mind is like TNA the Burger joint getting 5/5 by the 3 or 4 people who live in their parent's basement and are active on Yelp?
No, and you are reaching for thinking that.

Also if we are going stereo typically are WWE fans not living in their parents basement?

[Big Vic]

And again, and this will get glossed over, but your opinion on creative is irrelevant. Just like mine is.

There is no evidence people are no longer consuming the WWE product. So there's no reason to say creative is down. Its just YOUR opinion. Which, again, is irrelevant.
A lot of people here said they stopped watching, myself included.

[drave]

We are IWC darlings who are irrelevant!

[Heisenberg]

Conducted a small experiment in public where I gauge the power of the current WWE to the power of WCW's run of the nWo/WWF Attitude Era. Wearing my nWo shirt or The Rock's shirt will garner responses of positivity and happy memories. Going to the same locations and interacting with the same people in a Dean Ambrose shirt alludes to no reaction at all or the typical "what is that shirt all about? Who is it?".


In conclusion, the nWo is 4 life and the Attitude Era is one of the best things to happen in professional wrestling. Suck it, smell it, drink it, it's True, it's Damn True. Wellllllllll, well it's the Big Show(2000)

[Big Vic]

Saw someone with an nWo wolfpac t-shirt. know nothing else about him but he seemed like a cool guy

Lost all respect for matt striker when he said nWo wolfpac was the uncool version of the nWo. Nash and Hall are not uncool.

[Heisenberg]

Was he saying that in character or on some podcast no one listens to?

[Big Vic]

I watched it on the WWE network when they gave us a free week about 2 years ago forgot what the video was called.

[The CyNick]

According to the Observer, this week's RAW managed to be the 2nd lowest in the last 18 years in terms of overall viewers when not counting football or holiday weeks.

Missed out on being the new record by around 90,000 viewers.

In terms of historical stuff, same show last year did around 500k more for viewers. Lowest hour of that show was still around 200k more than the best hour this week.

To me it's not great journalism to just talk about the year over year viewers. When the show is #1 it tells you people are just watching cable less.

This is the thing that annoys me about this talk. If WWE is thought to be struggling, then almost every show on cable must be struggling creatively as well.

[The CyNick]

A lot of people here said they stopped watching, myself included.

Yeah and most of those people who claimed to stop watching still know how long the last Ziggler-Owens match was.

I think most people who claim they stopped watching, are actually still watching at least part of the show.

And even if they did stop watching, the total audience continues to grow across the various platforms. It probably just says WWE past those people by, rather than being failures creatively.

[The CyNick]

We are IWC darlings who are irrelevant!

If WWE booked to appease the people on sites like this, they would be out of business in 18 months.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Oh look it's CyNick. And he's eatling lots of cock.

[CSL]

christ this thread

[Savio]

And even if they did stop watching, the total audience continues to grow across the various platforms. It probably just says WWE past those people by, rather than being failures creatively.
On what platforms is it growing?

[The CyNick]

On what platforms is it growing?

Well let's be clear, TV wise, even though RAWs ratings are down, it's still #1 on cable and tv rights fees continue to climb year after year. That's the whole point of having TV, so there's growth there.

You Tube channel is massive, one of the biggest chanels in sports.

Network continues to grow year after year.

I could go on

[The CyNick]

Oh look it's CyNick. And he's eatling lots of cock.

You must have missed the walking dead debate. Quite possibly my favorite exchange ever.

What's it like to be such a follower? And so enamored with someone else?

[Locost]

Well let's be clear, TV wise, even though RAWs ratings are down, it's still #1 on cable and tv rights fees continue to climb year after year. That's the whole point of having TV, so there's growth there.

You Tube channel is massive, one of the biggest chanels in sports.

Network continues to grow year after year.

I could go on

As far as TV goes, lower ratings mean less money when it comes time to renegotiate. While ratings across the board are down due to too many channels, Raw's ratings should be a concern before they end up on Spike TV again

[#1-norm-fan]

You must have missed the walking dead debate. Quite possibly my favorite exchange ever.

You mean the one that started with me showing how there is a popular TV show whose ratings have gone up for the past 5 years, thus making the "TV is dow across the board" excuse quite lame? And then you tried to use only season premieres to prove me wrong hoping everyone else was as braindead as you and would fall for it? And then it ended like this...?

Walking Dead's ratings have gone up every year over the past 5 seasons despite "TV ratings being down across the board".

Ah, I see, you wanted to have the debate at the END of Season 5.

If you had said every season was up at THAT point, and I disputed you, you would be right (YAY!!!!)...

This is why I said to get someone to read the posts to you, Corky.

That debate? You sure you wanna keep drawing attention to that whole debacle, buddy? lol

If only everyone else was as blissfully ignorant as you, you might not come off as such a retard to every other human being here.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You must have missed the walking dead debate. Quite possibly my favorite exchange ever.

What's it like to be such a follower? And so enamored with someone else?

It's pretty alright.

[BigCrippyZ]

the total audience continues to grow across the various platforms.

That's a stupid argument. For all you or WWE knows, a large % of the same people who are turning into RAW on cable (and only catching bits and pieces) are watching it again on Youtube to see stuff they missed or enjoyed. Guess what? There's no way to know if the people that are watching on other platforms are separate from the folks watching on cable. You don't know and neither does WWE, because WWE have no way of accurately tracking with specificity if WWE is getting new unique viewers that differ between RAW on cable, Hulu, Youtube, etc.

In addition, if you knew how little revenue Youtube channels or Hulu replays actually generate, you'd know that the value of a Youtube channel, even one as large as WWE's, or Hulu replays, are jokes and miniscule in comparison to what they make from TV licensing, etc.

[Mr. Nerfect]

CyNick sucks. Have some Paige.

http://youthdevelopers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Wrestler-Paige-Bikini-Wallpapers-Boyfriend-WWE-Tattoos-Hot-Images.jpg

[MoFo]

Everyone who posted in this thread should be embarrassed

Especially WWFFan#1

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

this thread will live forever. deal with it tpww

[ron the dial]

it's still a steaming pile of shit regardless

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rebel says hi.

http://i.imgbox.com/N6RgPGuq

[Mr. Nerfect]

Honestly, who gives a fuck if this thread keeps going? Don't come in here if you don't want to see CyNick get owned.

[ron the dial]

you're all getting owned in here

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yep, those ad hominem arguments really sting the folk here.

[Savio]

Well let's be clear, TV wise, even though RAWs ratings are down, it's still #1 on cable and tv rights fees continue to climb year after year. That's the whole point of having TV, so there's growth there.

Financially they are growing maybe, but not audience wise.

I dont see the WWE network reaching 2 million subscribers by the end of the year, it seems like it might be topping off.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

you're all getting owned in here

you're getting owned

[The CyNick]

As far as TV goes, lower ratings mean less money when it comes time to renegotiate. While ratings across the board are down due to too many channels, Raw's ratings should be a concern before they end up on Spike TV again

Ratings have declined year over year and rights fees are up.

WWE drives the key demos better than just about every show on cable and does every week 52 weeks of the year, not just 10-20. Lots of cable channels want that programming, so fees should continue to rise.

[The CyNick]

You mean the one that started with me showing how there is a popular TV show whose ratings have gone up for the past 5 years, thus making the "TV is dow across the board" excuse quite lame? And then you tried to use only season premieres to prove me wrong hoping everyone else was as braindead as you and would fall for it? And then it ended like this...?







That debate? You sure you wanna keep drawing attention to that whole debacle, buddy? lol

If only everyone else was as blissfully ignorant as you, you might not come off as such a retard to every other human being here.

You still don't get it eh? Sad.

[The CyNick]

That's a stupid argument. For all you or WWE knows, a large % of the same people who are turning into RAW on cable (and only catching bits and pieces) are watching it again on Youtube to see stuff they missed or enjoyed. Guess what? There's no way to know if the people that are watching on other platforms are separate from the folks watching on cable. You don't know and neither does WWE, because WWE have no way of accurately tracking with specificity if WWE is getting new unique viewers that differ between RAW on cable, Hulu, Youtube, etc.

In addition, if you knew how little revenue Youtube channels or Hulu replays actually generate, you'd know that the value of a Youtube channel, even one as large as WWE's, or Hulu replays, are jokes and miniscule in comparison to what they make from TV licensing, etc.

Haha.

Yeah no monetizing of channels like you tube will ever happen. Best to ignore its potential.

[The CyNick]

Financially they are growing maybe, but not audience wise.

I dont see the WWE network reaching 2 million subscribers by the end of the year, it seems like it might be topping off.

2 million is a crazy number. I would expect them to flatten out over the next few months. It's already bringing in far more money than the ppv model was. The growth opportunity is when they get more subs from Asia. That will take time.

[#1-norm-fan]

Still being willingly blind to your own ignorance despite every other human being seeing how dimwitted you are, huh? Your desperate WWE apologist shtick is making more and more sense.

2+2=4

CyNick: "No, it's not. You don't get it. Sad"

Good job. I'm sure you're happy with that response. I guess that's all that matters.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, I'd like to point out that ron the dial is adding to the ratings of this thread by still watching. He is a sheep. An Afif sheep.

[ron the dial]

i do the same for wwe. i'm a loyal consumer.

[Evil Vito]

why are we still acting like CyNick is a real person?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He's still real to me dammit!

[#1-norm-fan]

I choose to believe CyNick is a real person. And after every post he kicks back, puts his feet on his computer desk as says "NOW I got 'em!" while everyone else says "What the shit...?"

Because that's a more hilarious thought than him just being a generic internet troll.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Well poe's law says it all. if someone is that dedicated to an "act" the least we can do is run with it. I mean he seems to run off of a general "McMahonism" template. But it can be pretty funny.

He was similar in his old run on the boards about 13 years ago. Just instead he was trying to point out all of the flaws in the product. It was kind of cool though because he brought a bunch of new guys to the board.

He's a nice guy I think, but I will cuss him out and neg rep him if I'm in a bad mood because he can be annoying. It's a part of the CyNick dance.

[The CyNick]

I like the mentality of my detractors. His opinion is different than mine, therefore he must be a gimmick.

Rather than focus on the fact I create discussion and present my opinions is a logical manner. The other side relies on insults and swears when they have no logical response. But I'm the bad guy. And have been for years, even though if I had the same opinion I had 13 years ago, I would fit in with the herd today.

It's like being a babyface in a heel territory. You're really on the side of right, but it's a villianess land, so you come off as evil. Don't worry though, I have big enough shoulders to bear the cross.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You remind me of a young Bobby Eaton

[The CyNick]

You remind me of a young Bobby Eaton

Im a New York territory guy.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

We can't always get what we want

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Okay Okay, how about Jumping Jim Brunzell

[BigCrippyZ]

Rather than focus on the fact I create discussion and present my opinions is a logical manner.

It's like being a babyface in a heel territory. You're really on the side of right, but it's a villianess land, so you come off as evil. Don't worry though, I have big enough shoulders to bear the cross.

:lol:

[Big Vic]

Please don't neg rep CyNick guys he is playing his role well as a heel.

[drave]

Definitely not logical, as claimed.

[Big Vic]

Heels don't need logic that's why they are heels.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He's no Jesse Ventura. More Harvey Whippelman

[CSL]

all heels need logic, it's just twisted, that's why there are heels

[Big Vic]

True

[#1-norm-fan]

No. Sorry. I can't even accept "twisted" logic as an excuse for the last few pages. That's an insult to the "Cane Dewey" Foley type heels.

CyNick is more like a current WWE-booked heel who says and does things because they're heels even if there's no logic to be found.

[Emperor Smeat]

This week’s episode of WWE Monday Night Raw did an average viewing audience of 3,884,000 viewers on the USA Network. The show, which followed up from WWE Fastlane, saw an audience up +423,667 viewers from the week prior. Below is how the show did each hour:

Hour one – 4,201,000 viewers
Hour two – 4,055,000 viewers
Hour three – 3,396,000 viewers
Average – 3,884,000 viewers

Some Good/Bad news for this week's RAW.

The good being the post-ppv spike and the "surprise" being teased lead to good numbers.

The bad being the 3rd hour is still killing the overall numbers with this week having a 800k drop in viewers. In terms of historical stuff, last year had 240k more overall for viewers (4.1 million for average). Also continues the trend of shows with Reigns in the main event leading to dismal 3rd hours more often than not since his 1st title win.

[Ruien]

I know I turned it off when the main event hit.

[Ruien]

I will also turn it off when the main event for Mania hits too.

[CSL]

No. Sorry. I can't even accept "twisted" logic as an excuse for the last few pages. That's an insult to the "Cane Dewey" Foley type heels.

CyNick is more like a current WWE-booked heel who says and does things because they're heels even if there's no logic to be found.

I was talking about pro-wrestling heels. Cynick is just a bit of a clown.

[CSL]

not like Doink tho, Doink was the man

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes. He's more like ICP.

[Emperor Smeat]

not like Doink tho, Doink was the man

Which Doink, the evil one or the one with the mini-Doinks?

Evil Doink was a lot cooler than the leader of the Dink coalition.

[ron the dial]

Yes. He's more like ICP.

hey now. even they aren't that bad.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Brooklyn Brawler

[DAMN iNATOR]

Brooklyn Brawler

More like Abe "Knuckleball" Schwartz IMO.

[The CyNick]

I've never been so insulted, oh wait, yes I have.

[Emperor Smeat]

Monday’s WWE Raw viewership averaged 3.742 million viewers which was down from the 3.884 million average from last week. The show featured the return of The Undertaker. The first hour of Raw averaged 3.961 million viewers, second 3.660 million viewers and the third and final hour of the show averaged 3.551 million viewers.

In terms of comparisons, last week was 4.2 million, 4.05 million, and 3.39 million for hours. 3rd hour hasn't been that high since last summer for more comparisons.

[slik]

Raw scored a 2.44 rating this week. The biggest drop was in the third hour, which lost 200,000 viewers compared to the third hour last week. The average number of viewers for RAW this week was 3.39 million. The first hour was the highest rated, with 3.46 million viewers.

The key demographics are perhaps the most concerning of all two weeks before WrestleMania. Raw fell off the board in males 18-34. Males 18-34 declined two-tenths of a rating for easily the lowest TV rating of the year in that demographic. Raw also lost one-tenth of a rating in all adults 18-49 for the lowest 18-49 rating of the year. Males 18-49 fell one-tenth, as well, and tied for the lowest males 18-49 rating of the year as well.

It's ok though, because Vince doesn't care about ratings anymore.

http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2016/03/22/march21rawtvratings/

[Swiss Ultimate]

No way am I Vince's key demographic.

[erickman]

are they about to catch up with tna

[Swiss Ultimate]

are they about to catch up with tna

I have not been gone for THAT long...:lol:

[Emperor Smeat]

Courtesy of /wooo on the viewership for this year's Road to Mania compared to last year which set the record for lowest since early Attitude Era.

Probably going to be a miracle for the WWE to hit 5 million for the post-Mania show unless something really huge happens at Mania.

http://i.imgur.com/s8aAUd9.png

[The CyNick]

And yet their digital media numbers keep going up. I wonder if people have changed how they consume their entertainment?

I know. Let's check their VHS sales from the Hulkamania Era to today. Might get some further insight into this rapid decline.

Now if you'll excuse me gotta get the family around the ol radio to listen to the new episode of The Mysterious Traveler.

[The CyNick]

The average viewers per season has literally gone up every fucking season. Even if it goes down at the end of this season, the fact that the last 5 years the ratings have gone up proves that "ratings are down across the board" isn't an excuse. Because there's a popular show where the ratings have been going up every year for 5 years while Raw has been in a steady decline.

How the fuck are you still trying to compare certain episodes thinking it DOESN'T make you look retarded? Look at the average ratings for the season, Corky. Average. Takes all the episodes for the season and gives you a precise number that tells you exactly how well the show did as a whole for the season. As opposed to just nitpicking certain episodes to try to make your point. Math, dumbass.

Just wanted to update this. Current season is sitting at 8% less viewers than same point ytd last year.

So even the most popular show on cable is seeing a decline. I wonder what their ratings will be like in 2026....I'm assuming of course that a show off this magnitude will have the longevity of Raw.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

super pumped about CyNick's return

[The CyNick]

It's short lived

I'm planning to Rock this place.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

pop a rating

[Innovator]

Arrive.
Pop A Rating.
Leave.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hulk Hogan in WCW styles. Brilliant politicking

[#1-norm-fan]

Arrive
Vince Sheep,,,
Leave

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

,,,,,,,,

[BigCrippyZ]

Fucktard arrive.
Fucktard.
Fucktard leave.

[The CyNick]

Fucktard arrive.
Fucktard.
Fucktard leave.

No creativity, eh? What an unfortunate set of circumstances.

[The CyNick]

pop a rating

Ì get up at 4AM and start reading and typing, reading and typing!

[BigCrippyZ]

No creativity, eh? What an unfortunate set of circumstances.

I see you've finally realized WWE's new motto.

[#1-norm-fan]

HAH!

[The CyNick]

I see you've finally realized WWE's new motto.

If that's the case the fans must not enjoy creativity.

[#1-norm-fan]

The millions upon millions who have tuned out over recent years probably do.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The only people who say that are Dave Meltzer and his sheep,,,,,,


you fucking Meltzer Sheep,,,,,

[Mr. Nerfect]

Do the WWE release numbers of who watches each show? I'd be curious to know how many people watch RAW on the Network each week. SmackDown and NXT for that matter. I'd like to know the stats on how many people watch their PPVs on the Network, and how many watch them live.

I guess with things like the App, it's just people downloading it once. I'd be curious to know how much has been done with this app since. They're clearly after Network sign-ons more than actual money, because they've given WrestleMania away for free again. Basically they want that giant number for sign-ups, but then they need to keep those people signed on. We'll see if that happens. I'm expecting a massive sign-up and then a steep, steep drop-off. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the stock after that news.

Fuck, why is WrestleMania even on the Network? They should be able to still sell the Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, SummerSlam, and you know what, Money in the Bank for about $30 through a PPV provider. Or be their own PPV provider but still charge that much for such a "premium" product. With NXT, your PPV library, some original programming and the rest of your upcoming PPVs airing on the Network, it really feels like there's a lot of money being left on the table.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Television is changing, but RAW needs to still remain a viable product for the USA Network to want to keep it. This whole thing about "television ratings across the board are changing" thing is bullshit for the actual networks who want people to be watching. The ratings decreasing might be an expected trend in television, but it's not a desired trend.

I bet you a more exciting product would get people to watch. The live element of the WWE programming lends itself to being able to exist outside the realm of new media, whilst still embracing it in other ways.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And that third hour of RAW is just not working. People are going to bed. I know the logic is that they get paid for that third hour, but how much money are they losing by overexposing their guys, having less eyes on the product and generally having less buzz around things? Don't get me wrong -- problems existed way before that third hour came in -- but losing it would give things a much more kinetic feel, allow more to be held off to SmackDown each week, and basically allow guys to stay that little tiny extra bit fresher than they are at the moment.

I don't know what WWE proposes. Maybe they can fill another hour elsewhere in the week with WWE programming? I know that's probably not what USA is after, but that third hour is just heatless. Crowd fatigue sets in too and that carries over to viewing audiences.

[The CyNick]

Do the WWE release numbers of who watches each show? I'd be curious to know how many people watch RAW on the Network each week. SmackDown and NXT for that matter. I'd like to know the stats on how many people watch their PPVs on the Network, and how many watch them live.

I guess with things like the App, it's just people downloading it once. I'd be curious to know how much has been done with this app since. They're clearly after Network sign-ons more than actual money, because they've given WrestleMania away for free again. Basically they want that giant number for sign-ups, but then they need to keep those people signed on. We'll see if that happens. I'm expecting a massive sign-up and then a steep, steep drop-off. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the stock after that news.

Fuck, why is WrestleMania even on the Network? They should be able to still sell the Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, SummerSlam, and you know what, Money in the Bank for about $30 through a PPV provider. Or be their own PPV provider but still charge that much for such a "premium" product. With NXT, your PPV library, some original programming and the rest of your upcoming PPVs airing on the Network, it really feels like there's a lot of money being left on the table.

I wouldn't expect WWE to release internal data on per show viewership. Maybe one day if the market analysts demand it, but I dont see the relevance. As long as network subs stay in the range they are expecting, thats all they should share. It doesnt really matter if people are watching live. In fact part of the reason for the network is to appeal to the changing landscape of the audience that wants to watch things on their own schedule.

Network subs have and will most likely increase at Mania time, and then decrease post Mania. That will just be the normal cycle. Success will be can you consistently produce bigger numbers year over year, or now that they are in a highly profitable state (better than the old PPV model numbers) they can maintain the numbers they have. So far they have been able to increase year over year. Obviously at some point you will saturate the market. Then it becomes about trying to drive new markets (India, Japan, China, etc).

I disagree on making Mania, Summerslam, Rumble and MITB (????) a PPV product. Thats actually a really terrible idea for three main reasons. Number one, WWE in their effort to drive people to The Network have been driving home the fact that ordering on PPV is silly (9.99 vs 59.99), to suddenly do a 180 on that would be absurd. Second, I dont think you will have a successful network if Mania and the other shows are not included. If you look at the old PPV numbers, you had something like 100-150k ordering most of the PPVs. Thats your Network subscriber number if you pull the big shows. If thats your Network number, it goes belly up. Three, if you charge $30 on PPV, you're probably only going to take home about $10 of that, because the cable companies will charge a percentage and want to see a baseline number. WWE would be better off trying to sell Mania as an a la carte show for say $20 to Network Subscribers. But I would look to do that down the line when you have had a solid subscriber base for several years.

[The CyNick]

Television is changing, but RAW needs to still remain a viable product for the USA Network to want to keep it. This whole thing about "television ratings across the board are changing" thing is bullshit for the actual networks who want people to be watching. The ratings decreasing might be an expected trend in television, but it's not a desired trend.

I bet you a more exciting product would get people to watch. The live element of the WWE programming lends itself to being able to exist outside the realm of new media, whilst still embracing it in other ways.

I've pointed out here that Walking Dead, which is the most popular show on cable, its down nearly 10% year over year. Some of the episodes this season are off 5 million viewers from peak episodes. So thats the most popular show on cable, which you would think people would go out of their way to watch because people will spoil online or at work the next day.

With RAW, while its no longer the #1 show on all of cable like it once was, its still the most watched show on cable on Mondays, and its driving those numbers for THREE hours per week, not 30 minutes or ONE hour like some of the other popular shows. It regularly beats other sporting events like the NBA. So WWE is in no threat of being out of favour with USA. If anything, USA is down on their knees thanking their higher power that they have WWE boosting up their prime time average 2 out 5 days in the week. If WWE's contract came to an end with USA, they would have a lineup of suitors all looking to pay top dollar. Fact is even with the decline off the peak, and even the decline over the past year or so, there are not many shows on cable drawing 3-4 million viewers for 5 hours per week.

[The CyNick]

And that third hour of RAW is just not working. People are going to bed. I know the logic is that they get paid for that third hour, but how much money are they losing by overexposing their guys, having less eyes on the product and generally having less buzz around things? Don't get me wrong -- problems existed way before that third hour came in -- but losing it would give things a much more kinetic feel, allow more to be held off to SmackDown each week, and basically allow guys to stay that little tiny extra bit fresher than they are at the moment.

I don't know what WWE proposes. Maybe they can fill another hour elsewhere in the week with WWE programming? I know that's probably not what USA is after, but that third hour is just heatless. Crowd fatigue sets in too and that carries over to viewing audiences.

I would bet everyone involved in terms of audience and creative all hate the third hour (me included). But you know who likes it? USA Network, thats why they are paying for it. WWE would be hard pressed to turn down the money. The only way they would drop it is if the ratings got so low, that USA couldnt sell ad space for that third hour. But there are many weeks when the third hour of RAW is the third highest watched hour of cable on Monday nights. So that means USA has advertisers lined up to buy time (this was verified in the last upfronts). its hard to imagine that changing. Advertisers want eyeballs. RAW delivers eyeballs more than just about anything on cable.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Didn't USA lowball WWE on their most recent signing? Hmm.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Is this argument about what's good for USA Network? Or what's good wrestling television and what the audience wants to watch.

What the network wants vs what is actually a good product, since y'know, the network knows fuck all about booking a wrestling product, do NOT often go hand in hand. You could argue Saturday Night's Main event in the 80s being the exception but that show was an hour every few months between big time shows.

This isn't an argument about what's good for the network, it's about putting forth a good wrestling product and the third hour hurts the product as you have just admitted CyNick.

We do get it though CyNick, believe it or not. We get the Vince has handcuffed himself with this 3rd hour, because now the network wants it, and they're going to be callling the shots. They also want the authority boring everyone to tears as the #1 heels, and that is of no use to anyone trying to invest their time into the product.

[screech]

re: individual show tracking on the network

I remember a few months after launch they put up a graphic showing the top viewed shows on it. I'm pretty sure they were hyping that people watched whatever special had just aired.

Point is, they do track it. I would hope they did so they know what to feature. And, if they start phasing out content, what people aren't watching/"wouldn't miss."

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

3 hours straight of Roman Reigns saying "Son"

[The CyNick]

Didn't USA lowball WWE on their most recent signing? Hmm.

I wasnt allowed in the room so I didn't hear the back and forth. If you can provide all the details of the negotiations I would love to hear it. Or did you read some random BS from unidentified sources and believe it to be the truth? Sad.

[The CyNick]

Is this argument about what's good for USA Network? Or what's good wrestling television and what the audience wants to watch.

What the network wants vs what is actually a good product, since y'know, the network knows fuck all about booking a wrestling product, do NOT often go hand in hand. You could argue Saturday Night's Main event in the 80s being the exception but that show was an hour every few months between big time shows.

This isn't an argument about what's good for the network, it's about putting forth a good wrestling product and the third hour hurts the product as you have just admitted CyNick.

We do get it though CyNick, believe it or not. We get the Vince has handcuffed himself with this 3rd hour, because now the network wants it, and they're going to be callling the shots. They also want the authority boring everyone to tears as the #1 heels, and that is of no use to anyone trying to invest their time into the product.

Cute.

Vince didn't do anything to himself. He's obligated to maximize shareholder wealth. The extra hour that USA wanted does that. WWE finished 2015 with record revenues, so everything they are doing, TV included has been positive. I personally could live with just two hours of RAW but I'm not responsible for driving revenues, i'm just a mere fan.

As for creative, I guess we should ignore the crazy number of injuries and availability to key guys. Adding John Cena, The Rock, Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, Cesaro, and others would have helped move storylines along over the last 12 months. But what can you do? If WWE was a sports team, and they had that lineup of injuries, people would expect them to falter. As it is even with those setbacks WWE is the #1 rated show on cable on Monday, the #1 show most Thursdays on cable, going to have close to 100k people at Mania, have increased network subs, become a beacon of success on social media, and just posted a record revenue generating year. If anything, we should be singing their praises on here every day.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They aren't a sports team, they're a sports entertainment organization, slapdick

[#1-norm-fan]

I've pointed out here that Walking Dead, which is the most popular show on cable, its down nearly 10% year over year.

... Jesus, this guy has to have a learning disability.

[#1-norm-fan]

Walking Dead could drop off the face of the earth in the ratings this year and the fact that it went up EVERY YEAR IN THE PREVIOUS 5 YEARS WHILE RAW WENT DOWN makes "TV ratings have been down across the board" as an excuse DEMONSTRABLY WRONG. How hard is this? Good God.

But of course what do demonstrable facts matter when you seem to have no shame when it comes to awkwardly ignoring them for the world to see.

[The CyNick]

Walking Dead could drop off the face of the earth in the ratings this year and the fact that it went up EVERY YEAR IN THE PREVIOUS 5 YEARS WHILE RAW WENT DOWN makes "TV ratings have been down across the board" as an excuse DEMONSTRABLY WRONG. How hard is this? Good God.

But of course what do demonstrable facts matter when you seem to have no shame when it comes to awkwardly ignoring them for the world to see.

So you think it makes sense to compare the ratings pattern of a show that has been on for well over 20 years vs a show that has been on for not even 6? Cool.

[BigCrippyZ]

So you think it makes sense to compare the ratings pattern of a show that has been on for well over 20 years vs a show that has been on for not even 6? Cool.

Yes, it makes perfect sense, as a rebuttal to your (incorrect) argument that "television viewership is down across the board", as evidence that when you provide well written, compelling, entertaining television, viewership can be substantially higher (like Walking Dead's) than what Raw is averaging.

[The CyNick]

Yes, it makes perfect sense, as a rebuttal to your (incorrect) argument that "television viewership is down across the board", as evidence that when you provide well written, compelling, entertaining television, viewership can be substantially higher (like Walking Dead's) than what Raw is averaging.

Is your argument then that WWE is in the minority - programs that have declined in viewership over the past 12 months? Exceptions don't prove the rule. And best yet, Walking Dead is actually no exception, as I have illustrated.

Or are we only looking at shows that increased for 5 years and then declined? WWE likely fit that bill in the early 2000s. Want to bet if the excellently written Walking Dead lasts 15+ years after their peak like WWE has?

Shows that are the hot product are going to behave outside the norm. If you bother to read articles about the industry as a whole you will learn that TV numbers are down across the board. Doesn't mean you can't come up with the odd exception, but on the whole, the industry is trending down.

[BigCrippyZ]

Is your argument then that WWE is in the minority - programs that have declined in viewership over the past 12 months?

No, while Raw viewership has declined more so in the last 12 months, Raw viewership has actually been in decline for 10+ years.


Shows that are the hot product are going to behave outside the norm. If you bother to read articles about the industry as a whole you will learn that TV numbers are down across the board. Doesn't mean you can't come up with the odd exception, but on the whole, the industry is trending down.

So WWE shouldn't be striving to continually be a hot product then? Obviously, you're going to have down periods and things that WWE can't control, don't work out, etc., but 10+ years of declining mediocrity is pathetic for a company and CEO that was so "innovative" in the prior 30+ years.

[Big Vic]

I think its safe to say if raw had a better product it would attract more viewers.

[BigCrippyZ]

I think its safe to say if raw had a better product it would attract more viewers.

No. Not according to CyNick, who knows all. :roll:

[The CyNick]

If Walking Dead went down to 5 million viewers per week, and then slowly declined to 4 million over the next 10 years nobody would call the show a failure. Especially if they did episodes 52 weeks a year.

WWE has been consistently #1 in their timeslot for the better part of 15 years. Only people in the IWC would see that as failure.

[The CyNick]

I think its safe to say if raw had a better product it would attract more viewers.

It might. But I would say the product has had ups and downs since ratings have been in decline. Most shows on TV have a core audience and then fringe people that come in and out. Walking Dead even has that. Some episodes do 16-17 million others do 12 million. That's a wide range.

I think at some point the casual fans just grow tired of a concept and move on to the next hot thing. I would concur WWE isn't hot with casual fans, but the hardcore fans are more engaged than ever. Except for Big Vic, he stopped watching.

[Big Vic]

I was a hardcore fan and stopped watching.

[BigCrippyZ]

I was a hardcore fan and stopped watching.

Same.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I haven't even been able to ironically drunk-watch RAW these past two weeks. I listen to The LAW Review of it instead. It took me a while to get into their jam, but their reviews are hilarious. I actually spend an hour and a half listening to these guys talk about the three hour show. Maybe if it were good I'd watch again?

[Mr. Nerfect]

One thing Cynick said that really bothered me: "And best yet, Walking Dead is actually no exception, as I have illustrated."

No. No you haven't. I'm not even going to go into the specifics like #fan, BigCrippyZ and Vic did -- you just keep referencing The Walking Dead. That's not illustrating anything. Just the whole syntax of your presentation is irking me on that one. OK, bye.

[The CyNick]

One thing Cynick said that really bothered me: "And best yet, Walking Dead is actually no exception, as I have illustrated."

No. No you haven't. I'm not even going to go into the specifics like #fan, BigCrippyZ and Vic did -- you just keep referencing The Walking Dead. That's not illustrating anything. Just the whole syntax of your presentation is irking me on that one. OK, bye.

Walking Dead is down nearly 10% YoY. I've said it many times on here.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You don't actually speak English as a first language, do you?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Nick speaks English, it's just hard to understand him with that fat dick in his mouth

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hey, that fat dick's name is Kevin Dunn. Leave him alone.

[#1-norm-fan]

I must have had one drink too many yesterday evening when I decided to try to take CyNick seriously again. My mistake, TPWW. Carry on.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol.

I only reply to the ones that catch my interest whilst skimming. It's an easy mistake to read even just one CyNick post.

[The CyNick]

Lol.

I only reply to the ones that catch my interest whilst skimming. It's an easy mistake to read even just one CyNick post.

Most over guy in the territory. I'm doing something right.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

the territories are dead CyNick.

[The CyNick]

the territories are dead CyNick.

The IWC is behind. We're still in the territory days. I go from territory to territory, dominate, then leave.

Maybe I will start my own, go national, and put everyone out of business. Except for one, who will get the better off me for a while during the time I am being sued by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT for plagarism. I'll get back on my feet, dominate them, buy them, and put them on my site until they embarrass themselves and prove to be inferior. Then I will bask in my own success for decades and decades.