can michael cole not get guys over?

[NormanSmiley]

This may be a stretch but was watching a couple old raws and listening to jr it feels like the guy was just different about getting guys over. A passion for it maybe.

Considering the majority of wwe's product is experienced through the eyes of its main commentator, do any of you feel that michael cole sucking at life leads to a feel that the product is shit,or that guys aren't worth a push?

Could be off base, thoughts?

[Shisen Kopf]

You know who would be a much better commentator to get guys over?

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/244/744/7c0fdbed3a50eb49976dee53b9f6d095_crop_north.jpg?w=630&h=420&q=75

[Lock Jaw]

I thought he and Tazz did a fine job back in the day on Smackdown.

Much like a lot of things, it just has to do with the writing/booking/style of the show. He's got so many other things now to have to worry about like plugging Social Media, the Network, Sponsors... etc.... this on top of having to always talk about other segments/upcoming segments and also arguing with JBL.....

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He does really blow though. I think he could be a decent commentator, given his cadence and rhythm, but yeah... for all the billions of reasons including Vince's influence on the commentating, he eats ballsacs.

[GD]

Michael Cole is restricted on commentary for obvious reasons.

On a random note, I remember how great of job JBL did to put over new comers MVP and Mr. Kennedy during his tenure as color commentator on Smackdown.

[Emperor Smeat]

Not with the way RAW is structured for commentators. Either he's bickering with other announcers or lacks the play-calling enthusiasm JR and others were famous for during matches. Majority of the time he doesn't call moves or just uses generic terms unless its someone who is already over or the WWE cares a lot about (ex. Reigns, Cena, etc).

Also doesn't help that between the constant recaps and announcers having to explain everything, wrestlers barely get to develop feuds on their own anymore.

[Lock Jaw]

Leaked announcer notes were interesting if anybody hasn't seen them:

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/NW1WG"><a href="//imgur.com/a/NW1WG">View post on imgur.com</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Damian Rey]

He could probably be a lot better given more free reign and an open mic. The fact that everything the announcers do, from match calling to the little one liners from Saxton, sound scripted, it's incredibly limiting. Cole has had some great moments before. But he's not gonna have them constantly when he's being fed and monitored on every damn line be utters.

[KIRA]

Nothing about RAW commentary feels organic Micheal Cole especially seems to be just doing as he told even his excited moments feel really forced and I cannot remember the last time anything he said felt genuine.

[Lock Jaw]

Nothing about RAW commentary feels organic Micheal Cole especially seems to be just doing as he told even his excited moments feel really forced and I cannot remember the last time anything he said felt genuine.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ljGsxYhOc3A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[NormanSmiley]

Question cones up then, was jr not forcefed lined because there wasnt a hard on back then for twitter, trending, digital facts of the week or whatever nonsense?

[Fignuts]

I think the problem is that JBL is way better at shitting on people than Cole is at getting them over.

[Fignuts]

Leaked announcer notes were interesting if anybody hasn't seen them:

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/NW1WG"><a href="//imgur.com/a/NW1WG">View post on imgur.com</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Funny that they say to fully acknowledge the history and heritage of the business when they usually do everything they can to ignore it. Especially when it comes to their own product.

[The CyNick]

First problem is Cole just isnt as good as JR was. Them as tough boots to fill for anyone.

Second, Cole is in an era where WWE feels its necessary to heavily produce their announcers. I understand it, because if I was Vince I wouldnt want dopey commentators running their mouth willy nilly. Current day WWE is a more corporate entity, and as such you want to ensure your people are speaking WWE speak.

At the same time, I think that can hamper the ability to sound spontaneous which when I recall some of my favourite JR calls, they sounded like they were off the cuff. Who knows, maybe JR was just that much better of an actor.

That said, I think Cole is excellent at executing the job given the parameters he has to work with. He's clearly sharp witted, and at the end of the day, he knows the wrestlers names.

[KIRA]

Funny that they say to fully acknowledge the history and heritage of the business when they usually do everything they can to ignore it. Especially when it comes to their own product.

Also funny is them saying have fun while tying your arms as far as what you can say and screaming lines into your headset.

[KIRA]

First problem is Cole just isnt as good as JR was. Them as tough boots to fill for anyone.

Second, Cole is in an era where WWE feels its necessary to heavily produce their announcers. I understand it, because if I was Vince I wouldnt want dopey commentators running their mouth willy nilly. Current day WWE is a more corporate entity, and as such you want to ensure your people are speaking WWE speak.

At the same time, I think that can hamper the ability to sound spontaneous which when I recall some of my favourite JR calls, they sounded like they were off the cuff. Who knows, maybe JR was just that much better of an actor.

That said, I think Cole is excellent at executing the job given the parameters he has to work with. He's clearly sharp witted, and at the end of the day, he knows the wrestlers names.

If some of his back and forths with other commentators are all him then I'd be inclined to agree that yea he is pretty witty.

[Simple Fan]

I liked heel Cole, feel like Cole has a certain group of guys he gets up for. The one thing I hate though is the lack of calling the actual match going on. A lot of time they are explaining a story during a match and not calling moves.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Was thinking about this and JR earlier tonight. I don't think this generation and the writing team deserve to have a good announcer to fill in the gaps and fix their idiocy. Cole is the perfect announcer for a shit writing team.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Leaked announcer notes were interesting if anybody hasn't seen them:

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/NW1WG"><a href="//imgur.com/a/NW1WG">View post on imgur.com</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

How come people were losing their shit for 5 year old notes?

[Lock Jaw]

Because they wonder what the additional 10 pages of notes they have added since look like.

[Rammsteinmad]

I've never understood why they don't just get "real announcers". Cole, Booker K, Lawler and JBL have all been doing this long enough to know WWE's style, why not let them wing it? I mean, it gets to a point where the people who are screaming in their ears throughout the whole show and know what they wanna hear... why don't they commentate themselves?

I remember a few years ago there were "reports" that Vince wasn't at a Smackdown taping, and Triple H was in charge and he left the announcers to do it on their own, only briefly giving them instructions, and they supposedly were very positive about it because they liked not having people constantly talking in their ears.

[Rammsteinmad]

Also, Michael Cole is awesome! He was great as a heel, with his "Cole Mine" and all his Cole-Miners. He's an easy guy to hate, and that's why he was so entertaining.

[#1-norm-fan]

Michael Cole was a good, natural heel. Definitely easy to hate.

... I don't know if that's a trait you want in the voice of your company though. I mean, it was good for that angle. Now there's no angle though and he's just there... representing WWE on TV more than anyone else... and being very easy to hate...

[GD]

JBL is ridiculously annoying when tries to be relevant. Especially when he is taking about sports.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Question cones up then, was jr not forcefed lined because there wasnt a hard on back then for twitter, trending, digital facts of the week or whatever nonsense?

Even if that was the case, I'd still rather have J.R., who knows how to convey passion and excitement and fire and can whip crowds into a frenzy than Cole, who mostly relies on a handful of expressions, and stupid shit like instead of just calling finishers, he says "and ________ calls that the _______! Here's the cover!" Most times, Cole also has all the personality of Frankenstein and a robot --- COMBINED.

[DAMN iNATOR]

JBL is ridiculously annoying when tries to be relevant. Especially when he is taking about sports.

Crazy enough, he was real good during his first commentary run in the mid-2000s. Just the other day I watched the vid of GAB 2006 match where King Booker defeated Rey for the World Heavyweight Championship, and it was amazing to relive.

[BigCrippyZ]

With the overly scripted commentary coming from Vince, I don't see it happening.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

First problem is Cole just isnt as good as JR was. Them as tough boots to fill for anyone.

Second, Cole is in an era where WWE feels its necessary to heavily produce their announcers. I understand it, because if I was Vince I wouldnt want dopey commentators running their mouth willy nilly. Current day WWE is a more corporate entity, and as such you want to ensure your people are speaking WWE speak.

At the same time, I think that can hamper the ability to sound spontaneous which when I recall some of my favourite JR calls, they sounded like they were off the cuff. Who knows, maybe JR was just that much better of an actor.

That said, I think Cole is excellent at executing the job given the parameters he has to work with. He's clearly sharp witted, and at the end of the day, he knows the wrestlers names.

I agree with this post. There's a first time for everything ;)

[The CyNick]

I've never understood why they don't just get "real announcers". Cole, Booker K, Lawler and JBL have all been doing this long enough to know WWE's style, why not let them wing it? I mean, it gets to a point where the people who are screaming in their ears throughout the whole show and know what they wanna hear... why don't they commentate themselves?

I remember a few years ago there were "reports" that Vince wasn't at a Smackdown taping, and Triple H was in charge and he left the announcers to do it on their own, only briefly giving them instructions, and they supposedly were very positive about it because they liked not having people constantly talking in their ears.

Branding is important. WWE believes in that. Some of these guys cannot be trusted to just wing it. I actually completely understand WWE's positioning on this.

I'm not saying it's what I would do, but I get the logic and think there is merit to it.

[The CyNick]

Also, Michael Cole is awesome! He was great as a heel, with his "Cole Mine" and all his Cole-Miners. He's an easy guy to hate, and that's why he was so entertaining.

I don't think the voice of the product should be a heel.

[The CyNick]

I agree with this post. There's a first time for everything ;)

So then you must be a troll

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

no, but I'm certainly quite droll

[The CyNick]

That's terrible

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Don't be mean The CyNick.

[The CyNick]

Don't be mean The CyNick.

You're right. I appreciate your contribution.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Once again, very astute in this thread. Refreshing.

[The CyNick]

Once again, very astute in this thread. Refreshing.

As i always am.

As a shoot, always funny to me when people agree with me on one topic but not others. I go from dullusional, troolish, stubborn to things like astute pretty quickly. I'm the same person in all debates.

I never waiver on my opinions despite the pressures from the group. I guess I know what people who weren't appreciated in their time felt like.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

As i always am.

As a shoot, always funny to me when people agree with me on one topic but not others. I go from dullusional, troolish, stubborn to things like astute pretty quickly. I'm the same person in all debates.

I never waiver on my opinions despite the pressures from the group. I guess I know what people who weren't appreciated in their time felt like.

You should sign an autographed glossy of yourself and send it to yourself since you're clearly a massive fan.

[The CyNick]

You should sign an autographed glossy of yourself and send it to yourself since you're clearly a massive fan.

I know what someone is angling to get for Christmas.

[Big Vic]

People only call you crazy when you say the 'product is good', or 'its an honor for a wrestler to be fed to Cena'

[The CyNick]

People only call you crazy when you say the 'product is good', or 'its an honor for a wrestler to be fed to Cena'

Both are true statements. Especially when Cena is so giving in the ring.

[Damian Rey]

Both are actually opinions. Especially the first one.

[The CyNick]

Both are actually opinions. Especially the first one.

Trust me, I understand that. People who jump on me for feeling that way don't get it. They think you have to be self hating to be a proper fan.

[Damian Rey]

I don't think they feel that way at all. I think it's just a vast majority who don't enjoy the current product arguing with someone who does enjoy it trying to change each other's minds.

[Tom Guycott]

He could probably be a lot better given more free reign and an open mic. The fact that everything the announcers do, from match calling to the little one liners from Saxton, sound scripted, it's incredibly limiting. Cole has had some great moments before. But he's not gonna have them constantly when he's being fed and monitored on every damn line be utters.

He did a lot better on the "Beast in the East" special. It was worlds better than what you'd expect to hear, and is likely because the show wasn't micromanaged as it likely happened during the one hour that Vince McMahon actually sleeps. It shows he's more than capable. Kinda like how nobody knew Big Show could be funny until his SNL cameo. Before that, he was perpetually in constant snarling, angry giant mode.

[Emperor Smeat]

The "Beast" special was very unique in that Triple H was supposedly in full control and WWE used the local big tv crew instead of their own for the event. Ended letting Cole and the announce team have a lot more freedom than usual for calling matches.

WWE did borrow a camera angle from the show but was used for a week or two before getting dropped or as a rare thing. The spot where the cameraman follows a wrestler from behind as he's running to attack someone outside. Before it was the WWE would only show the attack itself or from a different side.

[The CyNick]

I don't think they feel that way at all. I think it's just a vast majority who don't enjoy the current product arguing with someone who does enjoy it trying to change each other's minds.

That's possible

[The Condor]

I don't entirely blame Cole for the dumpster fire that is the WWE commentary table. I find all of the commentators to be bland, neutured and not as good at their job as others over the course of the last thirty years, but it's all do to the current structure and backstage climate of WWE, not so much the guys on the mics. Vince will put over whoever he wants to get over, like John Cena, Roman Reigns, 2012 Ryback, etc...

[Mr. Nerfect]

I once again agree with #fan. Cole was so good as a heel, but I feel he outgrew that position. It may have been time to use that heat to graduate him to a full-time managing position.

[NormanSmiley]

The sheer idea of your signature announcer playing heel is idiotic. Horrible idea. Terribly executed

[Swiss Ultimate]

He always got me off.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I remember reading at the time someone saying that Matt Striker should have been inserted into that role. That would have made so much sense.

[The CyNick]

The sheer idea of your signature announcer playing heel is idiotic. Horrible idea. Terribly executed

100% accurate

[Theo Dious]

He always got me off.

It was his ring gear wasn't it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eNWn2Re2Kr8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I can't believe the WWE actually did this.

[Mr. Nerfect]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eRGhcMsZV8Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The dude is such a good heel. He really should have graduated to being a manager after all this. Josh Mathews could have done alright as the new lead announcer with Jerry Lawler for a while.

[Lock Jaw]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eNWn2Re2Kr8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I can't believe the WWE actually did this.

Totally forgot about this.... The "girl" season is the only season of NXT that I watched all of.... Commentators just ripped the whole thing apart constantly to the point where it was just awkward, weird, and "surreal" that it was actually happening....

[Mr. Nerfect]

I didn't watch the whole thing, but man is "surreal" the right word.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>NXT Season 3 was glorious. The fact that they just straight up acknowledged that nobody was watching the show and ripping on it.

I remember Naomi won the first two immunity challenges or something and Cole was just like "I HOPE NAOMI WINS EVERY CHALLENGE SO THIS SHOW CAN END EARLY!" and everybody cracked up, including Matt Striker in the ring. Was the first time I realized that ring announcers/emcees can hear the commentators.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Thinking about it...as much as I enjoyed the initial concept of NXT and how it gave rise to the Nexus (before they botched it of course) and how 7 of the 8 guys are still employed to this day, I really wish they had just kept the ECW brand alive.

It was a great differentiator from the 2 main shows. Perfect way to introduce new guys to the main roster without immediately needing to give them a ridiculously huge push on Raw or SmackDown. Also it helped to rejuvenate guys who might have just been stuck languishing on the midcard on the other shows.</font>

[Jari]

He decided that he wanted to be the voice of the company and when you do that, you've got to put up with a 68 year old man yelling at you all night, micro managing everything you do and say

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cmJgCO2JjBI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[The CyNick]

<font color=goldenrod>Thinking about it...as much as I enjoyed the initial concept of NXT and how it gave rise to the Nexus (before they botched it of course) and how 7 of the 8 guys are still employed to this day, I really wish they had just kept the ECW brand alive.

It was a great differentiator from the 2 main shows. Perfect way to introduce new guys to the main roster without immediately needing to give them a ridiculously huge push on Raw or SmackDown. Also it helped to rejuvenate guys who might have just been stuck languishing on the midcard on the other shows.</font>

The current version of NXT is better than even the original non WWE owned ECW. So i guess everything worked out in the end. WWE had a vision for what a feeder territory should look like, and it's been a massive success.

[BigCrippyZ]

He decided that he wanted to be the voice of the company and when you do that, you've got to put up with a 68 year old man yelling at you all night, micro managing everything you do and say

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cmJgCO2JjBI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dear God that was depressing to listen to.

[The CyNick]

He decided that he wanted to be the voice of the company and when you do that, you've got to put up with a 68 year old man yelling at you all night, micro managing everything you do and say

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cmJgCO2JjBI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Why do you assume he is yelling from the clip posted.

Classic internet BS

[The CyNick]

Dear God that was depressing to listen to.

Why? Because Vince was trying to give direction?

[Jari]

Why do you assume he is yelling from the clip posted.

Classic internet BS

Other than JR and Mick Foley testifying to that regularly being the case and the sheepish reaction of Cole, I can't possibly think of a reason Vince

[Jari]

*You can add Michael Cole to the list of people who have stated that Vince regularly shouts down the headsets.

[The CyNick]

Other than JR and Mick Foley testifying to that regularly being the case and the sheepish reaction of Cole, I can't possibly think of a reason Vince

Didnt sound sheepish at all. You expect him to start screaming at Vince "i'll do it how I want"

Watching the video objectively, he realizes he is repeating a point, and asks for clarification from his BOSS, gets it, and says Thank you sir i will do that going forward.

But go ahead fill in the blanks with random made up stuff. It helps your argument so it works! Who needs facts?

[The CyNick]

*You can add Michael Cole to the list of people who have stated that Vince regularly shouts down the headsets.

I'm not saying that Vince has never yelled. The video in question was posted like it proves something about the relationship between on air talent and the owner of the company. The video shows what sounds like a very calm and rational discussion.

The IWC adds in a bunch of fabrication and then tries to pass it off as proof of their larger point. Meanwhile THE VIDEO in reality does no such thing.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Anytime Cole swearing is brought up, I can't help but bring back this bad boy:</font>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Sx1PhviIAt4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[NormanSmiley]

Vince was so horrible calling matches he really has no room to critique anyone. Except he signs the checks

[Rammsteinmad]

<font color=goldenrod>NXT Season 3 was glorious. The fact that they just straight up acknowledged that nobody was watching the show and ripping on it.

I remember Naomi won the first two immunity challenges or something and Cole was just like "I HOPE NAOMI WINS EVERY CHALLENGE SO THIS SHOW CAN END EARLY!" and everybody cracked up, including Matt Striker in the ring. Was the first time I realized that ring announcers/emcees can hear the commentators.</font>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3dAoSZdzBVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Rammsteinmad]

That whole NXT season 3 stuff is pretty much why I like Cole so much, I thought that season was hilarious. I get that, from a professional standpoint, having the "voice of the company" go off on the product is terrible, but then, in theory, the company is at fault if they're putting out a product that they know people are gonna shit all over in the first place.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I'm not saying that Vince has never yelled. The video in question was posted like it proves something about the relationship between on air talent and the owner of the company. The video shows what sounds like a very calm and rational discussion.

The IWC adds in a bunch of fabrication and then tries to pass it off as proof of their larger point. Meanwhile THE VIDEO in reality does no such thing.

I dunno. Seems like there were pretty huge gaps between when Cole talked and when he listened, and him repeatedly responding with "Okay" and "Yes, sir..." seem to be implying that Cole is acting very submissively and as if he HAS been being yelled at by Vince for at least part of that conversation.

Note, I'm not saying at all that's what was going on there, just my impressions. And I've watched that several times over.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Other than JR and Mick Foley testifying to that regularly being the case and the sheepish reaction of Cole, I can't possibly think of a reason Vince

But what successful territory have they ever booked?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Only CyNick has the authority to interpret Vince McMahon's moods. It's okay, guys. Yes...yes, sir...got it, sir...definitely, sir.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Maxine was so fucking hot.

http://www.wrestlingmedia.org/wv/02/20417/20417.jpg