Justice League (2017)

[KIRA]

I think that shouldve been his theme (or Flight) because I kinda hate the one he has its not Superman enough.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Yeah flight is a great track. Agreed on that track above not being officially released. And agree on Elfman being lazy with some of the themes

[JimmyMess]

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I loved this theme for Superman and I was pissed that they didn't use it in BvS, they just hint at it... and it looks like its gone now based on the new soundtrack???

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Not in the soundtrack at all. Not sure if it's in the film. We'll have to see. It'll suck if it isn't. But I'm doubting it.

[Lock Jaw]

Not listening to anything from the Justice League soundtrack because I like to experience it with the movie first.......

Since this comes out next week I just forced myself to rewatch Batman v Superman...... I forgot how much of a mess that movie was......

[Damian Rey 2.0]

It's a heaping turd

[KIRA]

Not listening to anything from the Justice League soundtrack because I like to experience it with the movie first.......

Since this comes out next week I just forced myself to rewatch Batman v Superman...... I forgot how much of a mess that movie was......

I will say this the extended cut goes by a lot faster than theatrical release and feels like a story

But yea it was a mess of a film all that to play catch up when they wouldve done better to go slow and not have 9 plots in one film

[Lock Jaw]

I did watch the extended cut...... I don't really remember enough to tell what was different.... I think the part in the beginning in Africa made slightly more sense, but on the whole the entire plot/Luthor's plan still was a mess.

RIP Jimmy Olsen...... I hope that they reveal that that CIA operative was just using Jimmy Olsen's identity as a photographer for cover, and the real Jimmy Olsen is still out there.

[Lock Jaw]

Really hope that Superman comes back to life as a much less "dour" individual

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Early reactions are Cavill finally gets to play a more standard edition of Supes. Looking forward to it hearing that the team plays well together

[Ruien]

Watching BvS now on HBO and lol. Superman is such a jackass.

[Destor]

Remember the vocal minority who swore it was good and it was only people being "racist" toward DC that said it sucked?

[Ruien]

I remembered it as being decent. But naw.

That was after reading all the terrible reviews and I went in with the lowest expectations possible.

[Lock Jaw]

I remember going in with very low expectations, and then it not even living up to those.

[KIRA]

Batman V Superman shouldve just copy /pasted Worlds Finest movie but they probably wouldve fucked that up too.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

The moral of the story is Zach Snyder sucks and should be kept away from making your favorite hero

[Simple Fan]

Have a feeling I won't like this movie. Liked all the DC movies so far but I feel like the changes they are making wont fit me. Hope I do but not feeling like it so far.

[KIRA]

Have a feeling I won't like this movie. Liked all the DC movies so far but I feel like the changes they are making wont fit me. Hope I do but not feeling like it so far.

If they learned anything from Wonder Woman they have a happy medium '

Its not overly goofy and good natured like Marvel but its also not mired in dark navel gazing and symbolism like Zach's attempts to pull off Chris Nolan.

[Kalyx triaD]

My only fear with JL is my general fear with the DCEU as a cinematic universe and what makes their characters distinct from Marvel. Marvel superheroes are depicted as 'people', who are seen as people doing a job for better or worst. Their drama is more soap operatic as they interact with each other and the world they live in. DC superheroes are 'symbols', representing entire facets of their universe. This is why the Justice League are so often regarded as modern gods or monuments. Their symbols transcend who they actually are which is why their monikers can be retired and graduated toward, hence the generational aspect of their hero structure: teens, young adults, and adults. It is expected, for instance, that Damien will be Batman. Or Donna Troy will be the Wonder Woman. Or Jon Kent will be Superman.

Obviously mantle passing occurs in Marvel, but there's a reason it rarely feels as organic and natural as DC. X23 didn't need to 'graduate' into Wolverine, Logan is Wolverine, she's X23. You already know how I feel with FemThor. However, fill-ins are a more natural occurrence with Marvel. Because again, these are people doing 'jobs'. Bucky can fill in as Cap, but it's not this generational thing where 'one day he will be Cap' like 'one day Dick will be Batman' (and he did before New52 pissed on everything).

So back to DCEU; the modern myth, symbolic nature of these heroes are the best way to depict them with making a Marvel movie with different heroes. The Nolan trilogy is actually predicated on the weight of a symbol on one man. Wonder Woman very deliberately presented her as larger than life and symbolic. DCEU needs to be that, all the time.

If the Suicide Squad 2 plot rumor is true perhaps they will.

[Lock Jaw]

What is the Suicide Squad 2 plot rumour?

[Kalyx triaD]

The team will be tasked with securing a weapon of mass destruction, a sarcophagus containing Black fucking Adam.

If true, don't know if it's a cold open, main plot, or post credit thing. But it's being spoken as a plot rumor.

[Simple Fan]

I just don't want them to over do the comedy to the point it feels cheeky like a Marvel movie. I think the DC movies have been good because they are different than Marvel and seem to be set in a more realistic modern world. I knew once Flash and Cyborg came in that their youthfulness would lighten up the mood as it naturally should although I hate Cyborg and he looks awful.

[Fignuts]

Yeah, to me, cyborg is the Falcon of DC Comics. Just a very boring character with nothing to really grab me or make me care about him as a reader.

Cringed at their attempt to get Falcon over in Secret Empire.

[Simple Fan]

Falcon is probably a good comparison, haven't ever read a Marvel comic so I can't say anything on that front but the character in the movies is kind of meaningless.

[Fignuts]

I actually like Falcon in the movies. He has more personality, and his abilities are more impressive to watch on screen then to look at them on the page.

[Lock Jaw]

I used to like Cyborg when he had the "generational" aspect about him. Starting off a Teen Titan and then right before the New 52 he was just beginning to become a bigger deal, joining the Justice League and all.

I hate that they got rid of that with the New 52 and made him a founding member of the Justice League, with no Martian Manhunter in sight. Actually reading it, I get why they did it. Rather than have another character with Superman-like powers, they replaced him with a dude all about technology for today's technology driven world. Also he pretty much serves as their mode of transportation with being able to produce boom tubes now.

I don't mind the role he plays in the Justice League, but part of me still feels like he doesn't fit in because he doesn't have that generational aspect anymore. You have all these iconic symbols and figures...... and Cyborg.

Also, there have been a few solo Cyborg series the past few years..... haven't read any of them, but I just can't imagine them being any good. This version of Cyborg seems alright if he is just in the background mostly being "tech guy" and "living mode of transportation", but I can't imagine him carrying his own series/movie.

[slik]

Movie Falcon is more interesting than Comic Book Falcon...hopefully movie Cyborg will be more interesting than his comic counterpart.

[Lock Jaw]

Really liked the pre-New 52 Justice League, actually..... was pretty much the "epitome" of the generational aspect DC used to do so well....

Batman (Dick Grayson)
Donna Troy
Supergirl
Jesse Quick
Jade
Starman (Mikaal Tomas)
Congorilla

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I just don't want them to over do the comedy to the point it feels cheeky like a Marvel movie. I think the DC movies have been good because they are different than Marvel and seem to be set in a more realistic modern world. I knew once Flash and Cyborg came in that their youthfulness would lighten up the mood as it naturally should although I hate Cyborg and he looks awful.

Except the DC movies haven't been good, and outside of Wonder Woman, were critically panned and performed under what they were expecting. They made tons of money, yes. But both BVS and SS saw record drops in their second week. DC would have been done to double down, again, on what's clearly not working.

JL is said to be very much still be a Snyder film. But with Whedon sharpening up the chemistry and character building for the team. Something Snyder is awful at.

The only thing that matters is its good, and that the heroes are done well and the general audience embraces it. Wonder Woman did that. JL sounds like, while not as good, is heading in that direction. Which is good because it lends itself to success and further stories for these characters.

[Simple Fan]

I know critically these movies have been negative but they fit what I've been looking for. I'm never one to read critics anyway. I think they've represented the characters well in a modern reality while also having that comic book feel. I understand the tone argument but I also feel like the characters have dictated the tone of the movies and always believed that introducing characters later on like Flash and Cyborg would naturally lighten up the tone.

I don't get all the love for Wonder Woman though. I liked it and thought it was good as well but I thought it was pretty much Man of Steel only with Wonder Woman. They told extremely similar stories with the only difference being how the title character chooses to be a hero.

Now I'll admit I only own DC comics and probably am a bit bias towards the movies. I enjoy the Marvel movies but probably don't get all the references to the source material as much as I do the DC films. I also feel like the Marvel movies have set the mold for a comic book movie and enjoyed the alternative that DC movies presented and just hope they don't push to far into that mold.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

You think Superman saying there's no hope in this world, and his dad suggesting to him as a kid that maybe he should've left a bus full of children to die, is representing Superman as a character well?

If you read DC comics please point out a Superman take that has him saying someone has to die and there's no hope in this world. That's not a Superman line. And I'm not even much of a fan of the character.

If you can't watch Man of Steel and Wonder Woman and objectively see the differences in both their respective narratives and their development of their title characters, maybe you should read more critical articles, because they'll point you in the right direction.

It doesn't mean you can't like the films, but at least have an understanding of why one worked incredibly well and why the other is so divisive.

[Simple Fan]

You think Superman saying there's no hope in this world, and his dad suggesting to him as a kid that maybe he should've left a bus full of children to die, is representing Superman as a character well?

If you read DC comics please point out a Superman take that has him saying someone has to die and there's no hope in this world. That's not a Superman line. And I'm not even much of a fan of the character.

If you can't watch Man of Steel and Wonder Woman and objectively see the differences in both their respective narratives and their development of their title characters, maybe you should read more critical articles, because they'll point you in the right direction.

It doesn't mean you can't like the films, but at least have an understanding of why one worked incredibly well and why the other is so divisive.

I thinks its a good representation of Superman in a modern skeptical society which DC has created. I understand his father not wanting his powers to get out. He wasn't Superman at that point and became Superman as the movie progressed.

Not the biggest Superman fan either and don't have any Superman comics. Mostly Batman, JLA, and Booster Gold.

I understand the difference in the character development between Man of Steel and Wonder Woman but I still feel they told similar stories. Both starting as a kid with parents trying to hide who they truely are and then becoming a hero by defeating an enemy from their orgin. Yeah Wonder Woman took more initiative when becoming the hero but Superman had alot more at risk and was more conflicted by the world around him.

[Lock Jaw]

I am a huge Superman fan and can say that he was not represented good at all. Even in a "modern skeptical society".

[Simple Fan]

My brother is fucking Superman fan boy and loves it. Is it a good representation of Superman, maybe not but I felt it was realistic one. Most the movie was him figuring out who he was and what his purpose was but in a conservative way which his parents were mostly responsible for. Yeah I thought it was strange for his Dad to not want him to save people but at the same time it makes sense.

[Lock Jaw]

Tell your brother I will fight him

[Damian Rey 2.0]

The general idea of the story they told is similar. The quality in which they told it, both in execution, character development, and overall structure, is why Wonder Woman was praised while Mos was crapped on.

You one WW's motives from the start, you saw her grow as the movie progressed, and there's a character arc for her. Supes just meanders into the costume, you're never quite sure why he's doing it, other than feeling obligated, and his support group outside of his biological dad contradict themselves. Pa Kent says he'll be great some day but then tells him to hide his greatness. It's dumb.

And there's nothing modern about Superman saying there's no hope. That's a gross misunderstanding on his character, as a man in his world. He's the exact opposite.

[KIRA]

I mean I get what Snyder was trying to do with Superman (I think)
The general complaint is that his a happy go lucky boyscout who is ridiclously op

We are watching him turn into that boyscout movie by movie his uncertainty about what he is supposed to do with his powers I except that I get that they tried to show that for all his power he is very human and thinks of himself as such

These movies are supposed to be his journey to that shining, annoying beacon of "hope"

But Snyder and that other guy are just so bad at it we didnt really need 3 movies to show that Wonder Woman did it in one.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Honestly, Captain America's character arc from the first film thru Civil War would have been perfect for Supes. He was bright eyed and idealistic about what he was doing to start, only to further plug himself into morally compromising positions where he realised things aren't so black and white.

If they'd have tried that with Supes it would've worked. It sounds like JL is a damage control and course correction film, which is all for the better. I want thesecharacters to continue to get chances on the big screen. What Warner and DC were doing wasn't working. WW started a turn around. Hopefully JL will at least hold the fort down going into 2019's Aquaman and development of the Matt Reeves Batman, as well as the Flash movie

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I mean I get what Snyder was trying to do with Superman (I think)
The general complaint is that his a happy go lucky boyscout who is ridiclously op

We are watching him turn into that boyscout movie by movie his uncertainty about what he is supposed to do with his powers I except that

I mean, kinda? He hasn't really grown into anything. He was pretty hopeless going into his fight with Batman. He went the wrong direction from mos. I too get what the idea was, it was just poorly executed. They've still presented no reason as to why he WANTS to be Superman. I'm contrast, Diana states very early on in the film why she WANTS to help people. It's a clear desire for her. Not so much for Clark.

I'm hoping they change that and steer his character into the right direction. We deserve new, good Superman movies.

[KIRA]

I mean, kinda? He hasn't really grown into anything. He was pretty hopeless going into his fight with Batman. He went the wrong direction from mos. I too get what the idea was, it was just poorly executed. They've still presented no reason as to why he WANTS to be Superman. I'm contrast, Diana states very early on in the film why she WANTS to help people. It's a clear desire for her. Not so much for Clark.

I'm hoping they change that and steer his character into the right direction. We deserve new, good Superman movies.

Didnt mean to post that I was not done

[Lock Jaw]

It is going to be very hard for them to get Superman back on track when their Clark Kent is so broken/non-existant. I think they almost need to do a soft reboot of Superman. I mean, they probably can't fit that into Justice League, but definitely the next Superman movie.

[KIRA]

Also the inspiring part of Superman much like Wonder Woman s that he knows humans are bastards but he chooses to do what he does anyway because he does think people CAN be better

[KIRA]

It is going to be very hard for them to get Superman back on track when their Clark Kent is so broken/non-existant. I think they almost need to do a soft reboot of Superman. I mean, they probably can't fit that into Justice League, but definitely the next Superman movie.

Can't they? I mean he's dead/in a coma He could come back with a more positive outlook he got Batman to stop murdering people(I'm sorry I mean " causing people to die by proxy") so he sees the effect he has on people even Batman who probably thought himself to be too far gone
It doesn't have to be a 180 into a super upbeat guy just y'know more of an optimist.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Lol if by proxy means shooting at people with machine guns, then sure lol.

I've read the JL version is very much a different, more standard version of the character. Hopefully it's true.

And I agree. Supes is undeterred in his belief in the good in people. That's his contrast to Batman. They haven't presented that yet. Certainly not in the last one where's openly saying he's going to kill Batman if needed.

I hope they turn him around tho. Having him die and come back as a more familiar take could end up being a good thing.

[KIRA]

I said by proxy because thats how Snyder described Batman straight up killing motherfuckers

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Lmao fucking Snyder

[Destor]

I am a huge Superman fan and can say that he was not represented good at all. Even in a "modern skeptical society".

[Kalyx triaD]

The 'impossibly honorable' character archetype works because of its contrast to the modern world. It worked for Cap in the movies, it kinda works for Funimation's Goku, it's so descriptive of Optimus Prime fans revolted at certain lines he said in the 4th movie. You don't 'update' these kinds of characters, no matter how cheesy you think they are.

[Destor]

Updating them makes them different characters in a familiar costume

[Kalyx triaD]

There was a panel in New52's first JL arc where Superman wacks a parademon with a trailer or something and he's like, "Smile for me," or some one liner like that and I lost it. I was done with New52 right there. And any time I looked back it was more silliness; Diana's a bimbo who needs a man suddenly, Cyborg just waltz into the JL like bitch Mr Miracle can give you a Boom Tube, and they had this really weird thing with Superman's costumed adventures concurrent with some ongoing year 1 type deal with him in jeans being a jerk to people. Supergirl is shit, Superboy was rendered unsalvageable, etc.

Thank GOD for Rebirth.

[Lock Jaw]

Though I still miss his underpants on the outside of his pants

[Destor]

Though I still miss his underpants on the outside of his pants

QFT

[KIRA]

There was a panel in New52's first JL arc where Superman wacks a parademon with a trailer or something and he's like, "Smile for me," or some one liner like that and I lost it. I was done with New52 right there. And any time I looked back it was more silliness; Diana's a bimbo who needs a man suddenly, Cyborg just waltz into the JL like bitch Mr Miracle can give you a Boom Tube, and they had this really weird thing with Superman's costumed adventures concurrent with some ongoing year 1 type deal with him in jeans being a jerk to people. Supergirl is shit, Superboy was rendered unsalvageable, etc.

Thank GOD for Rebirth.

The portrayal of Wonder Woman made me want to head to Burbank and burn DC building to the ground.

[Lock Jaw]

Really enjoyed the New 52 Wonder Woman series, though..... Azarello's run was p good.....

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I only read Batman's run on new 52 and it was fucking stellar.

But yeah. Superman's endless hope and optimism clash with today's society. It's what makes him relevant. Zach Snyder just didn't know wtf he was doing and drove the character into the ground. Thank God it sounds like we're getting an actual solid representation of him in JL

[Fignuts]

Only thing I liked from New 52 was Green Lantern, but I dunno if that even really counts, as it was one of the only books to keep it's continuity unaltered.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Didn't read that. Batman Zero Year is maybe my favorite Batman story

[Lock Jaw]

Read a bunch of new 52 stuff and there was a bunch i liked (And some I hated). It just took me a few years to get into it at all because I had to get over the loss of the old universe.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I had an issue hold at the local comic shop. Gave it up after rebirth as I didn't find it as compelling for the main Batman storyline

[Kalyx triaD]

Batman survived New52 because other than dropping BatDick and the Batman Inc., the status quo was closest to typical Batman. Also Court of Owls is one of the coolest recent additions to the Batman mythos.

[Rammsteinmad]

Does it matter that I haven't watched Suicide Squad or Wonder Women before I watch this? I'm struggling to find the motivation to watch those films, but at least curious to see Justice League.

[Kalyx triaD]

Just watch it. You either wanna follow the series or not.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Watch Wonder Woman. Suicide Squad sucks and is inconsequential

[Kalyx triaD]

In defense of Suicide Squad, finished product aside, the idea that Superman's death motivated Waller to put together a team of freaks to deal with meta-human threats in insane black ops missions covers a specific political corner of the DCEU. Not to mention the post credits scene that shows that their own potential risk is not unnoticed by a key character of the DCEU. The actual movie was kinda all over the place, but I wouldn't call it inconsequential in the same way, say, Ant-Man was (nothing really happened that affected the MCU in any substantial way).

[Damian Rey 2.0]

It's inconsequential in that nothing that happened in that film has any bearing on Justice League. Yes, the motive was based on the death of Superman. But the actual movie itself, it's characters, and what occurs has zero impact on the JL film.

You don't need to watch it to watch and understand Justice League. They're not really connected. Even the post credit scene is not needed, seeing as Bruce already hacked Luthor.

Wonder Woman on the other hand has a main character in it, developing her reasoning and motives. Apparently JL gives her time to expand on it.

[Kalyx triaD]

In terms of actual characters and direct plotlines, sure, but I was thinking the 'macro-plot' or rising metahumans in the DCEU. I feel SS added to the overall idea.

[Lock Jaw]

You gotta remember Kalyx sees the whole DCEU as one movie.

[Kalyx triaD]

This is true.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

As do I. I just don't see SS as an integral part of the universe.

[Fignuts]

Obviously mantle passing occurs in Marvel, but there's a reason it rarely feels as organic and natural as DC. X23 didn't need to 'graduate' into Wolverine, Logan is Wolverine, she's X23. You already know how I feel with FemThor. However, fill-ins are a more natural occurrence with Marvel. Because again, these are people doing 'jobs'. Bucky can fill in as Cap, but it's not this generational thing where 'one day he will be Cap' like 'one day Dick will be Batman' (and he did before New52 pissed on everything).



I agree that DC does mantle passing better in general but I would honestly put Bucky's transition into the new cap up against any in DC's history. It was excellently done, and one of my favorite stories ever. I'm pretty much all digital now, and donated almost all my trades to libraries, but I still have all my Cap trades from the Winter Soldier all the way to Death of Captain America. The problem was that Marvel doesn't have the balls to stick to their status quo changes and they put Steve back in the costume WAY too soon.

As for FemThor, that's not even a mantle passing. Jane picking up the hammer is one piece of a large overarching plot that began with the Godbreaker story.

[Kalyx triaD]

She calls herself Thor. Her book is called Thor. She punched people for making of her being called Thor. She clearly considers it a mantle she gained in-universe as her writers in reality. And no I didn't like the other dude way back when.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

This is the Justice League thread, damn it!

[Kalyx triaD]

Gamora fucked Tony Stark and wasn't impressed.

[KIRA]

She calls herself Thor. Her book is called Thor. She punched people for making of her being called Thor. She clearly considers it a mantle she gained in-universe as her writers in reality. And no I didn't like the other dude way back when.

I'm not much of a Marvel fan but I love current Thor to death I want her to keep the mantle I know she can't(but then Odin has made other hammers before so maybe)

[Ruien]

Isn't the movie out in like 2 days? Shouldn't there be critic reviews by now?

[Lock Jaw]

https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-movie-review-roundup/

[Fignuts]

She calls herself Thor. Her book is called Thor. She punched people for making of her being called Thor. She clearly considers it a mantle she gained in-universe as her writers in reality. And no I didn't like the other dude way back when.

And yet all of it is being done with an end game in mind.

She's not Kyle Rayner.

[Fignuts]

I'm not much of a Marvel fan but I love current Thor to death I want her to keep the mantle I know she can't(but then Odin has made other hammers before so maybe)

I could potentially see them keeping her around after Thor becomes worthy again. I still think she is going to end up sacrificing herself to save everyone in some way, as the cancer gets worse. Could even somehow play into how Thor becomes worthy of Mjolnir again.

[Fignuts]

This is the Justice League thread, damn it!

WE'RE TAKIN' OVERRRRRRRR

http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/blueworldorder.jpg

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Getting back on track....Rotten tomatoes had it at 43% recommended, Metacritic with Ann average score of 49. So it's decent or average or mixed. Which is a good thing.

I saw the scene on reddit where Supes is revived and confusedand takes out the league. It's pretty glorious

[Destor]

....thats not mixed....thats poor...

[Sixx]

Getting back on track....Rotten tomatoes had it at 43% recommended, Metacritic with Ann average score of 49. So it's decent or average or mixed. Which is a good thing.

I saw the scene on reddit where Supes is revived and confusedand takes out the league. It's pretty glorious

Link please.

[Lock Jaw]

Think I'm gonna go on Saturday night to see this regardless..... all I want is for it to not be completely terrible.

[Sixx]

Wait, when does this premiere?

[Lock Jaw]

Tonight's the night

[Sixx]

On a Thursday? Odd.

[Droford]

Most major movies soft open on Thursday night

[Damian Rey 2.0]

....thats not mixed....thats poor...

http://i.imgur.com/1QwV7iW.png

That's the Metacritic scoring chart. It's undeniably getting a rotten score on RT.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Link please.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/7d6qqh/you_asked_for_it/

Have at it, bud.

[Destor]

That scale is crazy

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Meh. It makes enough sense I guess. I'm watching it regardless.

[Kalyx triaD]

That scale is crazy

Imagine that scale for school grades.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Shit. I'd have a fucking college degree right now

[XL]

Already kicked off a row over “sexualised costumes” :roll:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41983452

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I saw that. Don't care. I'll let you know how it looks after tomorrow

[Simple Fan]

Thought it was ok, personally thought Dawn of Justice was better though. Really liked Cyborg surprisingly but still don't think he needs his own movie.

[Sixx]

I somehow find it hilarious that Khal Drogo plays a guy named Arthur.

[Kalyx triaD]

Thought it was ok, personally thought Dawn of Justice was better though. Really liked Cyborg surprisingly but still don't think he needs his own movie.

Sorry dude but this almost certainly means JL is better than BvS. lol

[Destor]

Also cyborg is going to be the worst part of the film :lol:

[Malfeitor]

The movie was perfect.

[Lock Jaw]

So you're saying there wasn't a single flaw or nitpick with the movie

[Malfeitor]

I wanted it to be longer. That’s my only gripe.

[Kalyx triaD]

Nigga who are you?

[Sixx]

I heard Steppenwolf is pretty lame in this.

[Destor]

Literally every I know who has seen this has said that

[Sixx]

Shame. Love Ciaran Hinds.

[Malfeitor]

Nigga who are you?

Nobody. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

My buddy saw it. He thought Man of Steel was ok, hated Bvs, but thought this was better. Not as a complete movie. But just in that it was far more entertaining and didn't take itself seriously.

Said he really liked the way they handled Superman's return.

[Fignuts]

It's not great. Better than BvS and Suicide Squad, but....this needed to be better, imo.

Will elaborate later.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Think the biggest question now is....do we get a sequel?

[Destor]

Theyve already filmed it...havent they?

[Sixx]

Thought so, too.

[Sixx]

Wait, no, according to wiki they began working on a script this October.

[Fignuts]

Right so when Justice League was announced, I was worried that not building their world up first and just rushing into the big team movie would hurt it, and I was right. There isn't enough time to develop these new characters and as a result, it's hard to care about them as much as the big three. Even the world around them seems just rushed together. They introduce the concept of atlantis and it's kingdom but doesn't really explain anything about it or anything. The movie is literally just like "Oh yeah, btw there's water people now."

That brings me to my next problem. Too much exposition. There is so much in this movie that's just explained through dialogue. A big reason why marvel's formula is so great is that it shows you instead of tells you. There are things that should have been explored a bit more but it's all like "No time! We need to get to the next scene! This is what this is all about! ok go go go!

Like most of the other DC movies, it has pacing problems, and feels like random scenes just plugged one after another, instead of a free flowing story. Also has one of the weirdest, most awkward openings for a superhero movie.

Yeah, Steppenwolf is pretty much Ronan. Guy who looks cool and is super tough but ultimately is just something for the team to hit. Fuck, even Ronan had at least some backstory and motivation. The movie tells you NOTHING about him other than a rambling line or two that has vague hints of his Apokolips origins. One of these lines hints that he was expelled from Apokolips and he's doing all this conquering to redeem himself. He could of been cooler if they explored this motivation instead of making it a throwaway line that most people will forget 5 minutes later.

AQUAMAN IS ROMAN REIGNS

He doesn't just look like roman his ENTIRE PERSONALITY is Roman Reigns right down to a T. Right down to the forced, lame one liners. It's fucking uncanny.

Most of the dialogue is mundane. It definitely feels like a reactionary move to the backlash of previous films grim tone, but a lot of the jokes and one liners fall pretty flat. Flash is really fun throughout the movie, ironically because he's written like an MCU character.

Cyborg looks like a Bayformer with a dude's face. And has about as much personality as one. Would give them a pass since the character itself is pretty lame imo, but MCU made Falcon cool, so nope.

On the plus side, the fights are pretty cool, even if the CG looks like shit at times.

Two post credit scenes btw. Second one would have me super fucking pumped if everything else wasn't so subpar.

[Fignuts]

I will say that Diana and Bruce's interactions were fun to watch, and they did a really great job building their relationship.

[Sixx]

Yah, I thought Deadshot cameo was supposed to be a leadup to his solo movie, but I see nothing like that is in the works.

[Fignuts]

What Deadshot cameo?

Also, I'd use spoiler tags.

[Sixx]

Fine. Now you should too.

[Fignuts]

working togetherrrrrrr solving the prooooooooblem

[Fignuts]

Also,



If you're talking about the post credit scene, that was Deathstroke, not Deadshot.

[Sixx]

Also,



If you're talking about the post credit scene, that was Deathstroke, not Deadshot.



You are right, I always get those names mixed up.

[Simple Fan]

Didn't like Steppenwolf all that much either. Thought his look in the short time he was in Dawn of Justice was better, if that was him. Agree Flash seemed like a MCU character which I wasn't a big fan of.

[Droford]

I want Roman Reigns to start doing the Aquaman Punch lol

[Droford]

Think the biggest question now is....do we get a sequel?

and the next biggest question is will the Ro..Dwayne Johnson be in it?

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Saw it today. I'll have a full review later. But I liked it. It's not great. But enjoyable.

[Destor]

Film was projected to hit $110 mil this weekend, now looking like $95 mil

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Oof that's a really bad opening. Complete failure.

[Destor]

On par with the fast and furious film but trailing everything in the genre inculding wonder woman in the past 365 days

[Destor]

Important to note that opening weekend is the biggest money maker for these films

[Destor]

300mil befofe marketing budget

[Destor]

For comparison thor opened to 122 mil domestic on a 180 mil budget.

Really expected wonder woman to boost premire sales...

[Destor]

Not only isnthe budget for all DC films in the line but number of solo films are as well...

[Droford]

I was unaware about them having to cgi out Henry Cavills moustache in the reshoots he did. I didn't notice anything funny looking

[slik]

I enjoyed Justice League. It's got some pacing issues in the first half but it finds it's footing in time. I really liked all the members of the team -- especially Flash and surprisingly Cyborg, who I never expected to find interesting.

Aquaman really is Roman Reigns btw.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

So...after letting the movie set in, I will stick with my initial thought that I liked it. It's not great. I could argue it's not even good. It is competent. The strength of the movie is the interactions between the heroes. But there's not enough of it.

As already stated, the movie does a lot of telling instead of showing. And there's a really brisk pace to move from one scene to another. The villain is incredibly weak.

From a film standpoint, it is weak and forgettable. But it's enjoyable at the least.

[Blonde Moment]

So something you won't really recall much of aside from a few scenes after a few weeks

[Fignuts]

Pretty much, yeah. Fight scenes were cool. Nothing about the story was memorable. Mainly because as I said, most of the story was just dialogue.

[Droford]

The line of the movie was when Martha told Lois that Clark called he the thirstiest woman he'd ever met. Only time I heard the majority of people laugh. Alfred's "its about time somebody here went on a date" was a close 2nd.

I'm pretty sure given more editing time with current climate that joke would have been a deleted scene on the dvd

[Damian Rey 2.0]

So something you won't really recall much of aside from a few scenes after a few weeks

Yes. Passable fodder but not much else.

[Destor]

Severely flawed film but a noticeable improvement over BvS.

Gal Gadot remains DCs greatest asset.

First two act were exposition and by in large a great bore.

3rd act was tops

Cyborg was captian exposition. Painful for the most part. Some fan service at the closing moments though.

Aauaman came off well. Took a poorly veiwed character and made him cool....not sure how a solo film wpuld play though.

Flash came pff great. Still struggling with there being two Flashs in my life..but good all the same.

Batman being largely useless pleased me.

Superman felt right. Finally.

Score was spot on.

Pacing was tragic...again.

I didn't hate it like i did every DC movie not Wonder Woman until now...but i didn't love it and will definitely never watch it again.

[Lock Jaw]

I enjoyed it a lot. Thought it started off a bit slow, but once the ball got rolling I was sucked in. Steppenwolf was a bit lame, but I was far more interested in the actual fact of the team coming together than what they were coming together to fight against.

Really enjoyed Superman. First time in two whole movies where Superman actually smiles. They also brightened up his costume A LOT.

Aquaman, Flash, and Cyborg were all very undeveloped, so it helped that I am already aware of them and what they can do.

I didn't hate Aquaman's look as much as I thought I would. I still wish they would have gone more traditional, but I'll let his solo movie really decide for me. Brief Mera cameo seems to indicate that they will also not be sticking with her comic book origins. Wish they would have had at least one line about what exactly Aquaman's powers are. They kept joking about talking to fish.... but they could have mentioned at least once how since his body is tempered to withstand the pressures of the deep ocean he is super durable and tough on land.

Gone off on an Aquaman tangent..... back to Justice League....

Was it the perfect Justice League movie? Not even close. Was it a good starting point for further adventures, while being fun in itself? Heck yeah......

My biggest gripe would probably be what Destor called "spot on"..... which was the score..... It was nice to hear hints of the classic Batman/Superman themes, but I wanted a "bigger score" with an "epic Justice League theme". Didn't really get that. It was mostly just "background noise".

[Vastardikai]

Steppenwolf was there to be the reason why the League needed to exist, nothing more. And he fit that role in a satisfactory manner.

I would have greatly preferred the White Martians, but you would have needed Martian Manhunter for that.

I think that Cyborg and Flash were off the mark, as far as portrayals. Cyborg is part machine, but he considers his humanity to be his greatest strength. (Teen Titans!) Flash was just the polar opposite of what he needed to be, personality-wise.

Aquaman is NOT Roman Reigns. I actually came out of Justice League liking Aquaman.

Batman's role was limited here, but he's a man among Gods. He should be limited. I still fucking hate that his power is "I'm rich."

WW is amazing. Just fucking amazing.

Death was the best thing to happen to Superman. This was the first time we got to see Superman be what he should have been this whole time. He saw that good needed to be done, and he did it. And he wasn't a prick.

[Sixx]

Steppenwolf was there to be the reason why the League needed to exist, nothing more. And he fit that role in a satisfactory manner.

I would have greatly preferred the White Martians, but you would have needed Martian Manhunter for that.

I think that Cyborg and Flash were off the mark, as far as portrayals. Cyborg is part machine, but he considers his humanity to be his greatest strength. (Teen Titans!) Flash was just the polar opposite of what he needed to be, personality-wise.

Aquaman is NOT Roman Reigns. I actually came out of Justice League liking Aquaman.

Batman's role was limited here, but he's a man among Gods. He should be limited. I still fucking hate that his power is "I'm rich."

WW is amazing. Just fucking amazing.

Death was the best thing to happen to Superman. This was the first time we got to see Superman be what he should have been this whole time. He saw that good needed to be done, and he did it. And he wasn't a prick.

Rich. And nuts. Rich and nuts.

[KIRA]

I had fun it felt like a bit of a Frankenstein's monster (two films fused together) far from perfect but it was fun and it had some really good parts so yea I'd recommend.

SUPERMAN WAS MOTHERFUCKING SUPERMAN!

[Destor]

I think that is the most common take away. Superman was superman.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Batman had his moments of pushing buttons. Plus the encouragement he gave Barry before the first battle.

But yeah, Superman was great in this. His line when shared a moment of levity with cyborg was great. I hope we get more of that in sea sequels.

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

The CGI on Superman's face bothered me whenever he was on screen.

[Lock Jaw]

I didn't notice it

[Damian Rey 2.0]

The opening scene with the kids filming him, it looks pretty obvious. His lip looked weird. Other than that it was fine.

[Kalyx triaD]

I didn't really notice his cgi face at all, tbh. Bit I wasn't looking either.

This was alright. Didn't have the logical absurdities BvS had but did fall into a lot un-earned moments. Stuff that should have been fuck yeah moments but came off forced.

That mid-movie fight with the League vs Supes was fun, tho. Really establishes Clark is an ace in the whole. Also puts DCAU power hierarchy theories to rest. He's top of the food chain. Then again, Diana didn't go Full Goddess here.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Supes v The League is the best scene in the movie

[Kalyx triaD]

Too bad Affleck seems done at this point. The DCEU really seems like a 'thing' now.

[Rammsteinmad]

Feels like nobody can be arsed with the DCEU but they're kinda at a point where they've invested too much time and money to pull the plug and start again.

[Kalyx triaD]

Put nothing past WB. I'm watching Flashpoint very closely.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

They kinda can't tho. Aquaman is already done filming, and wonder woman 2 is being written. I hope wb backs up a Mac truck of budget money and green lit projects to Affleck's house to convince him to stay on. I dream of a Matt Reeves trilogy staring Batfleck and maybe one more JL movie with him.

[Kalyx triaD]

There’s a wonderful opportunity to tell the Superman story. Now there is a fantastic chance to show Superman in his full colors and tell a very complex, character-driven movie that is based on story and have that wonderful sensation of hope and happiness. A feel-good movie with lessons laced in there as well.

Henry is fucking giddy about his attitude reboot.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

He's been so on board with being Superman since getting cast. I love it. I hope he gets a proper film series as well.

[Lock Jaw]

I wonder how they bring Clark Kent back to life.... I mean, he was already walking the streets as Clark at the end of this one.... but it seems suspicious if Clark and Superman both come back from the dead at the same time..... (and suspicious in general for any human to come back from the dead)

Not that Clark or his secret identity have been really built up or used at all in the movie universe. Seemed like everyone knew he was Clark Kent and he wasn't really hiding it. Even in Justice League, Lois was shouting his secret identity in front of police officers.

I'm hoping Flashpoint maybe resets things a bit for Superman and Batman to fix the "problems" with them.

Good opportunity to recast Batman, fix The Joker's look, maybe add Damian Wayne to the mix.

Also good opportunity to tweak Superman's continuity a bit, make Jonathan Kent not have been a dick, really firmly establish Clark as his primary character.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I think they need to stay away from drawing attention to a recast more than it will on its own. It's not like they played Clark Kent up as this big reporter. How they bring him back will be interesting, but Lois saying Clark in front of cops doesn't really give his identity away. It's a common name.

The joker can fix his look just because he's the fucking joker. Changing his face isn't out of the realm of believability.

[Fignuts]

What is this flashpoint talk?

Are they merging the CW stuff with the movies or something?

[Damian Rey 2.0]

No. The rumor was the Flash movie would be called Flashpoint

[Lock Jaw]

Not a rumour anymore

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Assuming it even gets made. At least one director has dropped out. Tho I think Ezra was very well received so I can see them pushing forward on getting him his own film.

He mentions knowing gorilla sign language, did maybe a gorilla Grodd movie

[Kalyx triaD]

Flashpoint is the most sensible way to correct any lingering issues the universe has at that point.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Maybe. I think if you use it to reset and recast it'll just confuse the general audience.

Meanwhile JL finished opening weekend under $100 mil. Hugely disappointing and likely to flop. I am very curious to see how this'll effect things going forward and how quick wb is going to be to react

[Destor]

I think audience reactions are much more positive so the low sales wont hurt as bad. I think wondy was such a success that they'll be forgiving for its underperformance

[Destor]

(Audience reaction is mostly "meh" but thats a hyge upswing from OUTRAGE and people mostly agree the characters are good)

[Damian Rey 2.0]

But still, money talks. And it's likely going to take a loss. We shall see.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Who'd have ever thought the justice league movie would be a bomb.

[Kalyx triaD]

All of us. The one thing we all agreed on is the concept overall was rushed and not earned.

[Kalyx triaD]

I'm so down for a JL vs Legion of Doom movie, tho. That was legit hype.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

They need to rebuild a lot of goodwill if they every plan on getting that far

[Destor]

Its important to note that the poor opening weekend isnt a critique on JL but on BvS. While JL was definitely mediocre i think the goodwill building has begun...though the road to a "come back" will be... long.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

But the box office will still hurt and that's what wb execs are gonna look at. I agree bvs is the reason people aren't going to see Justice League. But it hurts the film all the same

[Destor]

And for that reason snyder will be out the door

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I don't buy for one second that he stepped down. I think he was fired and to save face, they used his daughter's suicide as an out for him to walk away without humiliating him.

[Destor]

I don't buy for one second that he stepped down. I think he was fired and to save face, they used his daughter's suicide as an out for him to walk away without humiliating him.
agreed

[Simple Fan]

I'm so down for a JL vs Legion of Doom movie, tho. That was legit hype.

Agreed, was the best part of the movie. Looking forward to it building similar to how the Avengers formed over time. I'm not big on the direction they seem to be taking the movies but am interested in seeing Legion of Doom/Injustice League.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Just hire George Miller to do the justice league sequel

[Destor]

In the films 2nd week at the box office JL will finish in 2nd place to disneys Coco with $60 mil comjng in over the long weekend.

Jusice League is set to be DCs poorest return to date.

[Lock Jaw]

The more I think about this movie, the more I enjoyed it..... but I think for me a lot of it has to do with being a DC guy. To me it is like, Avengers are ok but THESE are the characters I want to see on the big screen.

[Lock Jaw]

I still think the first Avengers movie was better, but I'd watch Justice League over Age of Ultron any day of the week.

Actually, I'd probably watch it over the first Avengers movie too, even recognizing it as not being as good.

[Destor]

This movie was reeeeeealy close to getting it right. Missed the mark though.

[Fignuts]

I have never gotten the hate for Age of Ultron. Yes, its flàwed, mainly due large portions of the film being cut, but I still thought it was a really fun movie. People act like its dragonball evolution or something.

[Lock Jaw]

I think it's an ok movie, I don't hate it. Thought Justice League was even more ok, though.

[Sixx]

Meh, I loved Age of Ultron but I guess I'm just a sucker for Marvel.

[Destor]

Its problem was the bar had reached mythical levels.

[Lock Jaw]

Meh, I loved Age of Ultron but I guess I'm just a sucker for Marvel.

This is how I feel about this movie.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I've enjoyed Justice League in both showings. I know and can see the obvious flaws but the heroes work so well together it saves it.

Bvs hangover killing this movie tho. It being mediocre not helping word of mouth. Pixar movie opening the following weekend hurts too.

Wonder if Warner had just pushed the film back into 2028, let Whedon have more time to redevelop the film, and give the cgi for time of things would've been better.

[Destor]

An extra 11 years might have helped, yeah.

[Sixx]

Huh, this barely made the budget.

[Destor]

Budget is 30mil pre marketing. Safe estimate is 450mil

[Destor]

Its doing well in china though. Will cover cost for sure. Profit margins will be far less than projections so stocks will take a hit

[Sixx]

Its doing well in china though. Will cover cost for sure. Profit margins will be far less than projections so stocks will take a hit

Really? I remember it only made 8 mill in the first 3-4 days in China.

[Destor]

@83mil in china right now

[Destor]

Its going to clear 500mil for certain. So it wont lose money. Return of investment is still looking to be poor but not abysmal

[Lock Jaw]

I think what DC really needs to turn things around is to make sure all their solo movies are really good. So hopefully Aquaman doesn't suck. Really worried about it.

[Destor]

Same. I think if its bad only wondy will draw

[Sixx]

I think what DC really needs to turn things around is to make sure all their solo movies are really good. So hopefully Aquaman doesn't suck. Really worried about it.

Dolph Lundgren is gonna be in Aquaman. It CANNOT suck.

[Lock Jaw]

No, but maybe it can sink.

[Lock Jaw]

I'll show myself out.

[Fignuts]

lol

Lockjaw's all wet

[Kalyx triaD]

I just don't want WB to freak out because the second half of JL is honestly enjoyable and they can salvage what they have without some drastic bullshit like dumping the cinematic universe for something 'loosely tied'. They need to get over themselves if they think they're gonna make MCU money without the cohesion and creative effort MCU does. Even though Fox adopted a decentralized cinematic universe they still adhere to a core of X-Men films, with consistent actors. At least since Days.

[Helmsphere]

An extra 11 years might have helped, yeah.

We will see when the Justice League reboot hits in 2028. By then a MCU Squirrel Girl movie will still outgross it.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

An extra 11 years might have helped, yeah.

God damn fat finger itis

[Destor]

I just don't want WB to freak out because the second half of JL is honestly enjoyable and they can salvage what they have without some drastic bullshit like dumping the cinematic universe for something 'loosely tied'. They need to get over themselves if they think they're gonna make MCU money without the cohesion and creative effort MCU does. Even though Fox adopted a decentralized cinematic universe they still adhere to a core of X-Men films, with consistent actors. At least since Days.

Really agree with the 2nd half sentiment. Maybe final 3rd, but sill

[Vastardikai]

Joss should have been in charge of Superman from the word go.

[Destor]

The superman choice was top down. They wanted the universe to be grity, matching batman's tone. So everyone was to be more drab...course the end result was they lightened batman up. Which was the right call.

My point is dont blame snyder for that. He may have loved the idea but it wasnt his baby

[Sixx]

Snyder stepped down from Justice League way before it was finished, cause of his daughter's suicide.

[Sixx]

Kinda wonder if the actors playing Batman feel just a bit stupid when they're the only ones who always have to speak in a stupid voice. Well, except for Dark Knight Rises, Bane stole the show with his gibberish.

[Destor]

Snyder stepped down from Justice League way before it was finished, cause of his daughter's suicide.

Film was in post production when synder left but my point was more during man of steal

[Sixx]

Fair enough.

Ok, just watched this. It was ok, nothing great but I liked it. I really like the casting. Too b ad Aquaman was pretty fucking useless, he could at least slap Steppenwolf with a herring or something.

[Kalyx triaD]

The concept is predicated on Superman pretending he needs help.

[Sixx]

Right. Haven't read much DC books, but if I remember right it wasn't that obvious there. They somehow always came up with problems that could use the whole team, not everyone getting punched around till Supes decides to come over.

[KIRA]

The concept is predicated on Superman pretending he needs help.

Its not like Supes doesn't have enemies that just beat his ass. Hell, The Batman Who laughs one-shotted him the second he showed up

[Kalyx triaD]

Kryptonite?

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Man of steel falls on Snyder and Goyer because it's their movie. Just because the studio wanted something darkahs gritty doesn't mean it needed to suck or top out and interestinglymediocre. Which is the best compliment I can give to any of the three Snyder films.

I also don't believefor one second he stepped down. His daughter passed well before he left the project. I think they saw his assembly cut and realized it sucked hard, so forced him out with Whedon finishing and salvaging it, saving face by letting him "stepdown" and "be with his family".

[KIRA]

Kryptonite?

More like sucked the life from his body

[Kalyx triaD]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. The family issue could have just built up on him and WB was... more than understanding that he had to step down.

[Kalyx triaD]

More like sucked the life from his body

Magic then?

What does Joker-Batman actually do? Besides make Kara do really bad things. lol

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I honestly can't see how he stepped down without being forced. He finished the movie. Was already into pre production. Maybe he was stressed sure, but I think he finishes the film and releases whatever train wreck he played if they didn't force him out

[Kalyx triaD]

Maybe he's more a team player than we realize? After the shame of BvS was fresh over him at that point.

[Sixx]

Biggest fuckup with BvS was the ending. A fucking kryptonite spear. Why exactly Wonder woman couldn't use it? You know, as opposed to the guy who can die because of it?

[Destor]

Women cant use spears

[Sixx]

Ah, right. Neither can bats. Makes sense.

[Sixx]

Aquaman grunting > Batman grunting

[Destor]

Rumor until I find a credible source:


TL; DR version- WB execs put out a bad movie on PURPOSE for a quick payday.

Here's a timeline to explain-

-After the Batman trilogy, WB wanted Nolan to do Superman- but Nolan said no and instead pushed for Snyder (a family friend).

-During Man of Steel and BvS, Warner Brothers execs didn't even read Snyder's notes on the films... instead just trusting him.

- The President and The CEO of WB hated BvS so much that they wanted to fire Snyder from JL... but it was set to begin filming the following week so they kept him on and sent in a babysitter to oversee everything.
-Warner Brothers hated the direction JL was going and kept trying to get Snyder to change things, which he would but it was difficult and stressful for him.

-Snyder was about to quit or get fired when the tragedy happened with his family. He choose to get lost in the work and go all in to separate himself from the tragedy. He made it worse.

-Huge pressure from WB execs at this point who were understanding of what Snyder was facing in real life, but they were very against the movie. They called it a Frankenstein movie and said it was incoherent and made no sense and way too dark.

-Snyder quits to attend to his family.

***-INSTEAD of delaying the movie into 2018, WB CEO and President decide to bring in another director and throw in $100m studio money for reshoots for a quick turn around (This includes down to things like the infamous CGI over Superman's lip being done poorly- because they didn't have the time/resources) and to keep the release date BECAUSE if the movie was released in 2017 they would be able to apply it to their bonus checks for the year and get $$$$... but they were both sure they wouldn't have a job in 2018 so if the movie released then, they wouldn't get the bonus.

WB execs made a conscious decision to release a poor product which they acknowledged would be bad- simply because it would mean $ up front for them.

[Destor]

https://www.thewrap.com/justice-league-zack-snyder-batman-v-superman-wonder-woman/

[Sixx]

Rumor until I find a credible source:


TL; DR version- WB execs put out a bad movie on PURPOSE for a quick payday.

Here's a timeline to explain-

-After the Batman trilogy, WB wanted Nolan to do Superman- but Nolan said no and instead pushed for Snyder (a family friend).

-During Man of Steel and BvS, Warner Brothers execs didn't even read Snyder's notes on the films... instead just trusting him.

- The President and The CEO of WB hated BvS so much that they wanted to fire Snyder from JL... but it was set to begin filming the following week so they kept him on and sent in a babysitter to oversee everything.
-Warner Brothers hated the direction JL was going and kept trying to get Snyder to change things, which he would but it was difficult and stressful for him.

-Snyder was about to quit or get fired when the tragedy happened with his family. He choose to get lost in the work and go all in to separate himself from the tragedy. He made it worse.

-Huge pressure from WB execs at this point who were understanding of what Snyder was facing in real life, but they were very against the movie. They called it a Frankenstein movie and said it was incoherent and made no sense and way too dark.

-Snyder quits to attend to his family.

***-INSTEAD of delaying the movie into 2018, WB CEO and President decide to bring in another director and throw in $100m studio money for reshoots for a quick turn around (This includes down to things like the infamous CGI over Superman's lip being done poorly- because they didn't have the time/resources) and to keep the release date BECAUSE if the movie was released in 2017 they would be able to apply it to their bonus checks for the year and get $$$$... but they were both sure they wouldn't have a job in 2018 so if the movie released then, they wouldn't get the bonus.

WB execs made a conscious decision to release a poor product which they acknowledged would be bad- simply because it would mean $ up front for them.

That's the least believable part.

[Kalyx triaD]

Also WB wouldn't give a damn about coherency. I mean, the whole theory is predicated on WB knowing what a good or bad movie is before the fact, and they fucking don't. And one thing that will never be true in the entertainment industry is purposefully allowing garbage to be attached to your name.

A bad movie or game is attributed to incompetence, not malice. And Joss would never be in on a hack job. This is all salty conspiracy theory.

[Destor]

Joss would never do a hack job? He was a script doctor for over decade. lol

[Destor]

If you have a script that needs fixing Joss is your guy

[Damian Rey 2.0]

They should've shit canned Snyder after man of steel. The idea itself was interesting but never went anywhere and turned into disaster/destruction porn after the first hour or so.

They made a massive mistake giving Snyder free run on bvs as that turned out to be a flaming turd. Not sure what they were expecting with JL.

Ideally Snyder never touches any of these properties ever again. He's consistently delivered poor results, and has yet to replicate the success of the Nolan films from a critical or box office standpoint. The only film close is Wonder Woman, and that's not his movie

I'm not sure what they ever saw in him. He's consistently delivered divisive films. Never read it, but have been told by multiple people the point of Watchmen was heroes are normal flawed people just like the rest of us. Didn't get that vibe in Snyder's adaptation of it. 300 was ok, but again, panel for panel adaptation. His own take on characters are horrible. Sucker Punch is one of the worst films I've heard of. Never watched it.

I think they'll continue on with the shared universe but it won't be strictly adhered to. Like, Wonder Woman is obviously in the same universe, but it's its own thing and not dependant. I hope Aquaman is like that. And from the looks of it based on early comments, Reeves is doing his own thing with Batman, saying it's the same Batman but keeping the movie contained in its own world.

I think that's what's best for DC. Make good to great standalone films for a handful of years and actually build towards something. And when the timing is right and the stories make sense, bring the league back.

I'm hoping we get to see the Superman from the end of this film in his own go around. I know Matthew Vaughn wanted to do a sequel. Hopefully it's what we get. I love Cavill and I loved him in JL.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

TL;DR- Snyder sucks and should've been canned in 2013, keep doing what Jenkins did with WW and focus on good single stories, make Superman great again and worry about a team up later when it matters.

[Destor]

Film finally passes 500mil

[Kalyx triaD]

If you have a script that needs fixing Joss is your guy

I guess what we'd call a hack job are two different things.

[Destor]

I guess what we'd call a hack job are two different things.

That or you dont know what films he did as a script doctor


Waterworld, speed, twister, the quick and the dead.

Hes literally my fav writer in hollywood an i own every thing he's done. Fanboy doesn cut it. But joss will totally take a pay check. Thats what script doctors do. They take turds and try and make them watchable.

This is what he did until 97 when he left to gp do buffy.

[Destor]

And thats what they did here. They cut him a check and said save our turd.

[Destor]

And like he did in the past he took a broken movie and made it average

[Destor]

Which is a testement to his strength as a script doctor

[Fignuts]

Should honestly just hire the Russo brothers to do all serious toned superhero movies from now on.

[Kalyx triaD]

Which is a testement to his strength as a script doctor

Funny thing is, Script Doctor is what I do call him. I just wouldn't say hack job.

[Destor]

Then youre being wayyyyy too nice

[Kalyx triaD]

That's fine.

[Destor]

Story is confirm via hollywood reporter.

[Lock Jaw]

Hollywood Reporter sheep,,,,,,,,

[Destor]

lol

[McLegend]

Ezra Miller doesn't know how to run.

Movie did feel minor leagues compared to Marvel movies though. I enjoyed it overall.

[KIRA]

I think they should do it like they do their animated stuff have your continuity or whatever

but have stand alones You don't always need to be telling part of a larger story

[JimmyMess]

I said this about BvS and I will say the same about this movie... they are live-action DC Animated Movies. I like the animated DC films. That's the style of these movies, and thats not a bad thing in my opinion. I watched it once, I'll watch it again, and it will grow on me.