WWE RAW - The Cruiserweights are kicking off the show - 9.19.16 *OFFICIAL THREAD OF OFFICIALNESS*

[Lock Jaw]

WWE really needs to learn how to pace or time commercial breaks better for their shows. Majority of the time all they do is kill the flow of matches. Extra dumb to put one right in the middle of the debut match for a division.

Either you take a commercial, or you get a really short match. No way around that.

[Mercenary]

Ugh I understand Foley is he gm, but must he be on every segment?

[Savio]

I hate when Michael Cole says "He likes to have fun"............. no shit

[Emperor Smeat]

Thought Kendirck's submission was called a different name in the CWC?

[keeper2k]

YES!

[Droford]

Brian Kendrick a pirate arr

[Triple A]

Cool... 450 splash off the ring mat...

[Poit]

Thought Kendirck's submission was called a different name in the CWC?

THE BULLY CHOKE!

[Triple A]

This is cool... glad this match is good

[Triple A]

Damn... wish one of the black guys won instead... they both seem good

Brian Kendrick seems the most boring wrestling-wise imho

[Dark One]

Yesssss!!!!!

CRAFTY DIRTY BASTARD BRIAN KENDRICK!

[Theo Dious]

SPANKY!!!

[Droford]

Thought Kendirck's submission was called a different name in the CWC?

Be a Star hold?

[Lock Jaw]

Kendrick's submission looking "kind of weak"........

[Lock Jaw]

No bowlies allowed on RAW

[Dark One]

Damn... wish one of the black guys won instead... they both seem good

Brian Kendrick seems the most boring wrestling-wise imho

I think they'll be bigger in the division than Kendrick, but Kendrick's dirty heel tactics will make a good foil for TJP and be a great starting feud.

[Savio]

Alicia fox needs a Senzu bean.

[Poit]

Main event time.

https://media.giphy.com/media/nejZEd16blD1u/giphy.gif

[DAMN iNATOR]

Kendrick's submission looking "kind of weak"........

Name ("Captain's Hook") reminded me of Paul Burchill as a pirate and now I'm wishing the division had him with that gimmick as well as the others. Was seriously such a fun gimmick.

[Lock Jaw]

Wish they had got Tajiri...... want to see Tajiri kick some people's heads off..... I know that there were tons of "hard kicks" in that match, but Tajiri's always seemed that much deadlier..... maybe because of the flame on his pants........

[slik]

The Demon Nia

[keeper2k]

When the main event cage match is not gonna start till about 10:50...

[Droford]

Outsiders..

[DAMN iNATOR]

Is the steel cage the only enclosure in WWE with it's own "theme", if you will (@anyone)?

[Dark One]

Main event time.

https://media.giphy.com/media/nejZEd16blD1u/giphy.gif

https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/03/27/635947090365573745-1833842354_200.gif

[Savio]

The Chamber and Cell share that theme.

[slik]

I want 2 watch the new EXORCIST tv series even though it will probably be 'horrible'

'horrible' in the words of Triple Afif Afif Afif

[Theo Dious]

Wish they had got Tajiri...... want to see Tajiri kick some people's heads off..... I know that there were tons of "hard kicks" in that match, but Tajiri's always seemed that much deadlier..... maybe because of the flame on his pants........

Everything is deadlier when it's Asian.

[Emperor Smeat]

:y: THE Kendrick wins. Match was pretty good. Slower pace than what was done in the CWC though it being a Fatal Fourway probably played a big role why.


Either you take a commercial, or you get a really short match. No way around that.

Why not do commercial before the match like they did, 15-20 minute match, then commercial break afterwards. No breaking up a match because of a badly timed commercial spot or stuff barely happening because they are cramming breaks in a row.

[Savio]

In the attitude era there was rarely a commercial break between matches.

[Emperor Smeat]

Be a Star hold?

Had to look it up to be sure but they were calling it the Bully Choke during the CWC tournament and then just randomly decided to change its name out of nowhere for RAW now.

[Lock Jaw]

:y: THE Kendrick wins. Match was pretty good. Slower pace than what was done in the CWC though it being a Fatal Fourway probably played a big role why.




Why not do commercial before the match like they did, 15-20 minute match, then commercial break afterwards. No breaking up a match because of a badly timed commercial spot or stuff barely happening because they are cramming breaks in a row.

They prob got schedules/rules on when they need to put commercials in......

[keeper2k]

I can't figure out why I hate the new cage design

[Emperor Smeat]

They prob got schedules/rules on when they need to put commercials in......

Probably. Just feel like RAW/Smackdown being a scripted show means they should be able to schedule stuff around it unlike with sports where they have both scheduled spots and whenever the opportunity presents it because of the unpredictability of games.

[KIRA]

Roman still main events

[Dark One]

I don't really have a problem with commercials, and I'd rather have longer matches with a commercial break in most cases than the three or five minute matches we got for a long time.

It's just that they really emphasize and underscore shitty pacing and a show where nothing is happening.

[KIRA]

So SD still the show to watch for me besides crusierweights on RAW nothing to see really

[KIRA]

Observation Roman is more boring when in confined space

[Emperor Smeat]

Has a face ever escaped a cage match using the door and not one of those situations where both guys are about to fall out at the same time?

Wouldn't matter if Reigns did it since he'd get booed because crowds don't like him.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Tonight feels like it has just been MEH for a "go home" RAW overall. Not great, but not terrible. Enjoyed that there were less squash matches, and the women's tag, Cesaro v. Sheamus, to a moderate degree the 10-man tag and the first CW match of the new era on network TV were all good to great IMO.

[slik]

Roman back in vest

[Lock Jaw]

Are you achin

For some bacon

[owenbrown]

Roman Reigns matches brought to you by the following sponsors...

http://www.dietspotlight.com/wp-content/uploads/sominex-product-image.jpg

http://www.prestigebrands.com/assets/images/modal-images/product-nytol-extra-strength-modal.png

and...

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41F3P7PUiCL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg

[Lock Jaw]

Michael Cole yelling SUPERMAN PUNCH haunts me...............

[Dark One]

SUPER DONKEY PUNCH

[Lock Jaw]

What an anti-climactic ending.....

Plus the champ loses......


WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THIS SUNDAY NIGHT?!

[DAMN iNATOR]

Guess I forgot above, but I'd like to add it seems slightly better (not good, by any means, but def better) that the talking segment at the start was only ~10 mins.

Also, definitely feels as though loud cheers for Roman winning were piped in for a second there.

[slik]

Oh FFS

[Dark One]

What an apropos way to end this shitshow.

[DAMN iNATOR]

What an anti-climactic ending.....

Plus the champ loses......


WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THIS SUNDAY NIGHT?!

What does WWE 2K17 mean for Sunday?

(Nothing, because it releases 16 days after Clash of Champions on Tuesday, October 11).

[Dark One]

"MACHKA SOMETHING"

God bless Kevin Owens.

[Lock Jaw]

Fans chanting YES at horrific beat down of Roman Reigns

[Savio]

It's not in Rollins character to do that

[DAMN iNATOR]

Spider-Seth!

[Lock Jaw]

Would have been "funny" if he ran down the ramp, slid under the ring, and popped up through the mat........

[Emperor Smeat]

Meh main event match but the post-match stuff was pretty good.

[Dark One]

Don't really like Rollins saving Reigns after all the shit they've been through, but whatevs.

[Bad News Gertner]

In the attitude era there was rarely a commercial break between matches.

Easy to do that when every match on the show is between 2-10 minutes tops

[slik]

Last hour of RAW was good, First Two Hours were Dreadful

[Emperor Smeat]

http://66.media.tumblr.com/fdc01b7b550054845ead268471e94378/tumblr_ods5eypD8g1u1ljrzo2_500.png

http://66.media.tumblr.com/62a514b62b9ed94c318460e23a8ce582/tumblr_ods5eypD8g1u1ljrzo3_500.png

[hb2k]

In the attitude era there was rarely a commercial break between matches.

Most matches were only 3 to 6 minutes long back then.

[Juan]

It's not in Rollins character to do that

He's pretty much a face now

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rollins is a face now, yeah? It seems a bit stupid to ask, but I'm not sure if he's actually done anything to confirm his disposition yet.

Also, did I read correctly that Kevin Owens lost a Cage Match to Roman Reigns?

[Mr. Nerfect]

To Savio's point though, the WWE puts commercial breaks in their Kickoff matches. Aren't those designed to air on the WWE Network and YouTube? Why do you need a commercial break in those?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm curious to see how Clash of Champions goes as a show:

* Nia Jax should destroy Alicia Fox and it should be fairly fun. They are a building a monster there, but I don't know where she goes next. The depth in the division means she's going to have to get in the ring with Bayley or Sasha very soon, and it'll be intriguing to see how they handle that.

* I hope they add a cruiserweight tag to the Kickoff. That could be a lot of fun.

* Brian Kendrick is a good first choice for TJ Perkins. I hope they give Kendrick a chance to talk and sell the match. Kota Ibushi ended his dreams of winning the CWC and then Perkins beat Ibushi. He sort of diluted Kendrick's legacy stakes there. It'll be a good chance to get the Legbar over when Kendrick, the grizzled veteran with nothing left to lose, taps out. I also hope they give Perkins a chance to talk because he's on point when he does and comes off as well-spoken.

* Jericho vs. Zayn will be incredible, I think. Jericho is the perfect asshole to emphasize Zayn's likable traits. You can buy Zayn beating Jericho too. I hope this isn't one and done and Jericho is invested in getting Zayn over.

* Sheamus vs. Cesaro is interesting. I'm sure they'll take things up a notch for the finale. I wonder if Cesaro has signed a new contract? This seemed designed for Cesaro to win in an attempt to try and push him again. I'd laugh if he wins and then says he's going to take his championship opportunity on SmackDown and jumps ship. It seems like a lot of work for these guys to go through to end up with a US Title shot, but I'd honestly be really cool with Roman Reigns vs. Cesaro as a program. If Sheamus wins, I imagine that the crowd will galvanize behind Cesaro some more, and maybe they'll sort of "YES! Movement" him, although obviously not as hot?

* I still find Big Luke a bit shit in the ring, but I won't be distraught if him and Anderson take the tag belts, but I won't be upset if New Day keep them either, because I'd honestly rather see them slightly heel it up for a program with Enzo & Cass than Gallows & Anderson go into one with them. I've got no clue where you put Gallows & Anderson, but they would make natural allies for Owens at this point, wouldn't they? They don't need the belts for that.

* I'm actually hoping Roman Reigns wins the US Title belt. No one from "The Bloodline" has ever held that title before, and Reigns with a mid-card run actually seems somewhat refreshing. My ideal scenario would be for him to work with Cesaro.

* The Women's Title becoming a Triple Threat actually makes sense, because you can now have Dana Brooke's interference be completely legal. I imagine she'll help Charlotte retain, with Banks and Bayley canceling each other out, to continue to string along the eventual Virgil/Alex Riley-esque break for glory. When Emma returns, it'll be interesting to see how she factors into the Charlotte/Dana relationship. Charlotte vs. Emma would actually be an intriguing little match-up while Dana faces the girl she hits with the belt or whatever at Clash and the other one deals with Nia. Keeping the women's division fresh is going to be harder than it is in NXT though, because you'll have the girls bumping into each other more often, and you don't get to send them away when they're on the main show.

* Rollins vs. Owens will be good from an in-ring perspective. Owens will be keeping the belt, but it's just a matter of how. Do Anderson & Gallows emerge as allies to him? Does Steph turn? Does Triple H simply stick himself into it again? I don't have a high interest in it, as I feel the whole Universal Title scene really...forced at the moment. Feels like a mid-card title match while Rusev vs. Reigns, at least in style, feels like the World Title bout. I think that's why I want Cesaro to go after the US Title instead of the Uni Title -- it's got the history and the match will be "heavier."

* Oh, and I do hope that Enzo & Cass vs. The Shining Stars gets added to the main card as an opener. I'd like Epico & Primo to get the chance to open some eyes. I don't agree with them getting these random pins on Enzo, but it's leading up to the outcome of Enzo pinning Epico, which will be a nice little moment and would be a fine way to kick off what should be a tremendous show from an in-ring perspective.

Pretty much everything has got something at stake, and the match that doesn't have that material reward (Jericho vs. Zayn) stands out for being a personal issue. This is a small gripe, but I hope that Michael Cole and Corey Graves call the show alone with Byron Saxton doing something else (ring announcing while JoJo interviews or something) because I think the two-man teams are better. I understand why they have them for the three-hour RAWs, but I think Cole and Graves can handle a PPV on their own. I know it will be presented exactly like a RAW, but Backlash was pretty much your usual PPV format with a SmackDown aesthetic, but Clash could feel different very easily.

Hell in a Cell could end up looking like:

* Kevin Owens (c) vs. Seth Rollins for the RAW World Title in Hell in a Cell
* Charlotte (c) vs. Sasha Banks for the Women's Title in Hell in a Cell
* Roman Reigns (c) vs. Cesaro for the US Title
* The New Day (c) vs. Enzo & Cass for the Tag Team Titles
* Bayley vs. Nia Jax vs. Dana Brooke in a Women's Title #1 Contender's Match
* Chris Jericho vs. Sami Zayn II
* TJ Perkins vs. Fuck, I hope Kota Ibushi

[Ruien]

Where is the Young vs Titus match?!?!

[Evil Vito]

* The Women's Title becoming a Triple Threat actually makes sense, because you can now have Dana Brooke's interference be completely legal. I imagine she'll help Charlotte retain, with Banks and Bayley canceling each other out, to continue to string along the eventual Virgil/Alex Riley-esque break for glory. When Emma returns, it'll be interesting to see how she factors into the Charlotte/Dana relationship. Charlotte vs. Emma would actually be an intriguing little match-up while Dana faces the girl she hits with the belt or whatever at Clash and the other one deals with Nia. Keeping the women's division fresh is going to be harder than it is in NXT though, because you'll have the girls bumping into each other more often, and you don't get to send them away when they're on the main show.

I think the Emma/Dana alliance is gonna be nixed, to be honest. I'd be pretty surprised if she doesn't go to SmackDown to be on the same show as Zack Ryder. It's possible that Vince has one of those "he doesn't deserve her dammit, let's split them up" moments which ultimately led to the whole Paige and Del Rio situation but it's tough to think they'd do that again given the controversy it's caused.

Or Emma can retire and spend her life with me. That would be OK, too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Where is the Young vs Titus match?!?!

Playing on a loop in the 8th level of Hell.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the Emma/Dana alliance is gonna be nixed, to be honest. I'd be pretty surprised if she doesn't go to SmackDown to be on the same show as Zack Ryder. It's possible that Vince has one of those "he doesn't deserve her dammit, let's split them up" moments which ultimately led to the whole Paige and Del Rio situation but it's tough to think they'd do that again given the controversy it's caused.

Or Emma can retire and spend her life with me. That would be OK, too.

You're probably right in that it'll be nixed. Emma on SmackDown at least adds another woman who was a wrestler before she got to the WWE to their ranks. I'd like to see her vs. Becky Lynch to be honest.

[Evil Vito]

Most of what's happened on Raw has made sense despite me just not being particularly interested. It's more burnout on sitting through a 3 hour show every week than it is me not enjoying the show.

But it's shaping up to be a damn good PPV with a lot of fun matches. The PPVs have by and large delivered all year even through the periods where I wasn't watching the television or build up at all.

[Evil Vito]

Where is the Young vs Titus match?!?!

Rightfully shitcanned.

[Big Vic]

Don't really like Rollins saving Reigns after all the shit they've been through, but whatevs.

Yeah they could have booked it better to where he just wanted to attack Owens.

If they really wanted to get him over as face after pedigreeing Ownes he should pedigree reigns too. Crowd would eat that up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I miss the Curb Stomp. I didn't like it in NXT, but they worked hard to put that move over.

[slik]

I think the match should have ended no-contest instead of Roman defeating KO clean...seems like bad booking to make KO look weaker than Roman on go-home show of Owen's 1st title defense against the Demon Seth...

[Big Vic]

I think the match should have ended no-contest instead of Roman defeating KO clean...seems like bad booking to make KO look weaker than Roman on go-home show of Owen's 1st title defense against the Demon Seth...
I'm wondering if they fucked the ending up.... wonder if they were supposed to fall near the same time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rusev should have electrified the cage as Reigns was climbing it, shocking Reigns and causing him to fall and allowing Owens to pin him. Instant ratings. Well, not really, but I want to see Rusev, animated as he is, running around with that sort of equipment.

If it were the Attitude era, Lana would have seduced the referee into giving her the key, Rusev would have entered the match to beat up Reigns with Owens. Rollins would have come out, but can't get into the cage, so he climbs to the top of it and dives onto Rusev and Owens. A massive brawl ensues, and in the chaos, Owens escapes through the door and cluthes the Universal Title he just retained for dear life as Rusev eats a Superkick/Spear combination as Lana's top gets caught on the cage, ripping off as she stumbles around in a panic. When Rusev arrives at the PPV, he notices Lana smiling at something. He gets her password off Goldust (who has placed cameras around the place) and discovers that Seth Rollins has been sending her pictures of his penis, to which he would explain "IT'S HUUUUGE!" in comical fashion. He'd drop the phone in a fury and Goldust would come back into the frame and send the photos to himself for later.

Rusev would get so frustrated during his match with Roman Reigns, he'd hand Roman the US Title in exchange for his help beating up "Stupid Seth." Roman agrees to take the belt, but Spears Rusev anyway. "WE HAD A DEAL, AMERICAN!" Lana comes out during the Rollins/Owens match despite her not having any connection to it at all. Owens would Powerbomb her onto the ring apron and Rusev would hit the ring and beat up both men. Reigns would then come out and Spear Rusev again to end the show and the main event of Hell in a Cell would be a two-fall Hell in a Cell match for the US and Universal Titles, with Sexy Lana as the Special Guest Referee.

[Stickman]

Having Reigns win sucks but I don't think it was done in a burial kind of way. Owens, being the champion of the galaxy should have won though.
Rollins coming in for he save, are you kidding me?

[Big Vic]

I miss the Curb Stomp. I didn't like it in NXT, but they worked hard to put that move over.

I think it was a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[Evil Vito]

Rusev should have electrified the cage as Reigns was climbing it, shocking Reigns and causing him to fall and allowing Owens to pin him. Instant ratings. Well, not really, but I want to see Rusev, animated as he is, running around with that sort of equipment.

If it were the Attitude era, Lana would have seduced the referee into giving her the key, Rusev would have entered the match to beat up Reigns with Owens. Rollins would have come out, but can't get into the cage, so he climbs to the top of it and dives onto Rusev and Owens. A massive brawl ensues, and in the chaos, Owens escapes through the door and cluthes the Universal Title he just retained for dear life as Rusev eats a Superkick/Spear combination as Lana's top gets caught on the cage, ripping off as she stumbles around in a panic. When Rusev arrives at the PPV, he notices Lana smiling at something. He gets her password off Goldust (who has placed cameras around the place) and discovers that Seth Rollins has been sending her pictures of his penis, to which he would explain "IT'S HUUUUGE!" in comical fashion. He'd drop the phone in a fury and Goldust would come back into the frame and send the photos to himself for later.

Rusev would get so frustrated during his match with Roman Reigns, he'd hand Roman the US Title in exchange for his help beating up "Stupid Seth." Roman agrees to take the belt, but Spears Rusev anyway. "WE HAD A DEAL, AMERICAN!" Lana comes out during the Rollins/Owens match despite her not having any connection to it at all. Owens would Powerbomb her onto the ring apron and Rusev would hit the ring and beat up both men. Reigns would then come out and Spear Rusev again to end the show and the main event of Hell in a Cell would be a two-fall Hell in a Cell match for the US and Universal Titles, with Sexy Lana as the Special Guest Referee.

I'm pretty sure Noid just outed himself as Vince Russo.

[slik]

Big Cass went from wrestling for the Universal Title to jobbing to the Shining Stars.

[Cool King]

I feel that Raw was pretty bad this week. It really felt like a chore to sit through and watch.

There wasn't really much to talk about really as the show was that bad. But I did like the 10-man Tag Team Match and the promo the came before it.

I'm sure like most people, the main talking point is the return of the Cruiserweights. Also, I'm sure I'm the only one here who thinks this, but I felt that the Cruiserweight match was pretty boring, but I did find it funny when Mick Foley said "....we did that last week, in crowning the first ever WWE Cruiserweight Champion....T.J. Perkins" and then only around six people cheered.

Also, is it just me or does the beginning of Rich Swann's theme sound a little bit like the beginning of the "Level Clear" theme from Sonic Adventure 2? Just for a split second. When I heard his theme, I actually thought I was about to listen to the "Level Clear" theme.

And why was one of the first things Micheal Cole told us about Swann was that his parents are dead? What was the point of that? Was it to make us think "Oh, he's smiling and dancing, but his parents are dead. What a happy guy. Even his parents being dead can't stop him smiling, dancing and having fun!". I dunno.

On to Kendrick now and I'm so happy that he's back. I've always liked Kendrick and I really hope he goes somewhere and isn't just the "returning jobber" for the Cruiserweight Division like Mahal has been so far and what I think Hawkins will also be on SmackDown. Sure, he has a title match but I really can't see him winning. Why crown a new champion after a long tournament only to have him drop the title around ten days later?

Also, talking of the title and again, I'm sure I'm the only one here who thinks this as I haven't seen anyone mention it, but the Cruiserweight Championship looks horrendous. It looks like a toy, or a championship some twelve year old made on a SvR game. It makes the Universal Championship look like a work of art. I'm not a fan.

On to the match itself though and I must be getting old as there was a time where I loved watching Cruiserweights, but watching the match last night and all I thought was "Flippy Shit".

There were some good moments, but there were also things that we had already seen earlier in the night or have seen quite recently or regularly, but a small portion of the crowd and Micheal Cole acted like it was some kind of insane feat that we had never seen before. For example, when Cedric Alexander and then Gran Metalik jumped from/over the ropes to the outside, Cole and a portion of the crowd went crazy, but Kofi Kingston did that about forty-five minutes prior with no "orgasm" coming from Cole or the crowd.

I understand that Cole has to sell the match and the division, but I just find it a bit annoying.

Overall, Raw was pretty bad and the Cruiserweight Division is "meh". Roll on SmackDown.

[Cool King]

I will also say that I find Epico's impressions of Enzo hilarious.

So hilarious that I even made this hilarious gif.

http://s13.postimg.org/cpfnlezjb/ezgif_383406680.gif

[#BROKEN Hasney]

II'm sure like most people, the main talking point is the return of the Cruiserweights. Also, I'm sure I'm the only one here who thinks this, but I felt that the Cruiserweight match was pretty boring, but I did find it funny when Mick Foley said "....we did that last week, in crowning the first ever WWE Cruiserweight Champion....T.J. Perkins" and then only around six people cheered.

Also, is it just me or does the beginning of Rich Swann's theme sound a little bit like the beginning of the "Level Clear" theme from Sonic Adventure 2? Just for a split second. When I heard his theme, I actually thought I was about to listen to the "Level Clear" theme.

And why was one of the first things Micheal Cole told us about Swann was that his parents are dead? What was the point of that? Was it to make us think "Oh, he's smiling and dancing, but his parents are dead. What a happy guy. Even his parents being dead can't stop him smiling, dancing and having fun!". I dunno.

On to Kendrick now and I'm so happy that he's back. I've always liked Kendrick and I really hope he goes somewhere and isn't just the "returning jobber" for the Cruiserweight Division like Mahal has been so far and what I think Hawkins will also be on SmackDown. Sure, he has a title match but I really can't see him winning. Why crown a new champion after a long tournament only to have him drop the title around ten days later?

Also, talking of the title and again, I'm sure I'm the only one here who thinks this as I haven't seen anyone mention it, but the Cruiserweight Championship looks horrendous. It looks like a toy, or a championship some twelve year old made on a SvR game. It makes the Universal Championship look like a work of art. I'm not a fan.

On to the match itself though and I must be getting old as there was a time where I loved watching Cruiserweights, but watching the match last night and all I thought was "Flippy Shit".

There were some good moments, but there were also things that we had already seen earlier in the night or have seen quite recently or regularly, but a small portion of the crowd and Micheal Cole acted like it was some kind of insane feat that we had never seen before. For example, when Cedric Alexander and then Gran Metalik jumped from/over the ropes to the outside, Cole and a portion of the crowd went crazy, but Kofi Kingston did that about forty-five minutes prior with no "orgasm" coming from Cole or the crowd.

I understand that Cole has to sell the match and the division, but I just find it a bit annoying.

Overall, Raw was pretty bad and the Cruiserweight Division is "meh". Roll on SmackDown.

So I kind of agree as a massive fan of the CWC, the Cruiserweight match was just there. I mean, I get it, they made it a fatal 4 way with guys that haven't wrestled that much on the indies with one guy who doesn't even speak English and they were basically told to geth their shit in. All 4 of them had excellent singles matches in the CWC if you want an actual introduction to some of them.

Give Kendrick and TJ Perkins at least 20 minutes at Night of Champions though and it could be match of the night. Both of them had amazing matches in the tournament and I'm looking forward to seeing them go against each other.

The belt looks good on TJ Perkins. Kind of makes it look like a boxing belt.

http://img.wennermedia.com/article-leads-horizontal/rs-wwe-01-9802375f-bdcc-443d-b570-48f39b1d8743.jpg

[Cool King]

It did enter my mind that it looked a bit like a boxing belt.

[Cool King]

So much purple though with the Cruiserweights.

If he wasn't dead, you would be forgiven for thinking Prince was involved with the division.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I mean, with how short he was, he would have been a cruiserweight.

[Ruien]

I turned Raw on and the same 4 Divas were on. I am tired of watching them already. There is literally no variety to that boring division. I turned it off after the second set of commercials and they were still on.

[Simple Fan]

I'm with Cool King in the belt. I like the centerpiece and side plates but it's just to much purple. Would look cool on a traditional black belt. Also why not have TJP on Raw with the title?

[ClockShot]

Didn't even get through the first hour. Nasty migraine, light and tv screens hurt.

Judging from what I'm reading, a lot of bullshit and they put the cruiserweights in at the last hour? I didn't miss much then.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think it was a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I don't get it though. If kids Tombstone each other, what is going to happen? Punching each other could potentially kill. Are they going to ban punching? What about the sledgehammer?

Or is it some sort of racial thing? I know there's the iconic Curb Stomp scene in American History X, but surely kicking someone in the back of the head hasn't been reserved for African-Americans over the course of history? Might be underestimating its significance though.

[Emperor Smeat]

So I kind of agree as a massive fan of the CWC, the Cruiserweight match was just there. I mean, I get it, they made it a fatal 4 way with guys that haven't wrestled that much on the indies with one guy who doesn't even speak English and they were basically told to geth their shit in. All 4 of them had excellent singles matches in the CWC if you want an actual introduction to some of them.


Probably didn't help Cole didn't match the same excitement of Mauro and Bryan which really helped the CWC feel special. Was also pretty dumb to not provide subtitles or have someone explain what Gran Matelik was saying for his promo considering he doesn't speak English.

Also them pretty much repeating some of the same mistakes done with the debut and start of the Women's Revolution.

[Anybody Thrilla]

It was just a showcase of 4 "new" people to the Raw audience. Let them settle into the groove of singles matches, and the cruisers will be shit hot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I actually really like the Cruiserweight Title. Something about the octagon shape is a bit too symmetrical, but the general design suits it, I think. Normally I don't like the colored belts they do, but the scheme coming from the CWC makes sense and actually gives it some history. I think it being different actually makes sense too, because the whole thing is that their style is meant to be different. There's something aesthetically okay with the cruiserweights fighting over a "World Title" that chooses silver instead of gold and purple instead of black.

That same thing bothers me with the Universal Title though. The Uni Title is supposed to be a World Title, so it should look like a World Title. Not look like the other World Title, but like its own World Title. I think that is where you should stay traditional with the black strap and gold plates.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It was just a showcase of 4 "new" people to the Raw audience. Let them settle into the groove of singles matches, and the cruisers will be shit hot.

Do you think they'll get that way if they're just doing the spotty matches every week, or do you think they'll need proper storylines and development? Sincere question.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think Kendrick is a good choice to be TJ Perkins' first challenger. They never fought in the CWC, they both wrestled Kota Ibushi, Kendrick's the old, steady hand. I do worry that when you see the flippy shit every week, eventually no one will care, and that these multi-man matches eventually blend together and no one gets over because everybody beats everybody.

I think the overall idea might be just "send them out as filler because they will keep the kids with ADHD because they're moving fast and shit" to simply fill a quarter-hour. I think they're functional like that, but I do think it's a novelty that could wear off if they don't take their time to really protect and hone some legitimately personalities to sort of sign-post the division. TJ Perkins is obviously one, and I hope that Gran Metalik is another, but he just lost.

Kota Ibushi is in such a good position, because he gets to sit back, wait and see if these guys get over and are booked decently, and then come in later once the dust has settled and basically be the biggest attraction in there. Ricochet also has that advantage, provided that he still wants to sign with WWE down the line.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Do you think they'll get that way if they're just doing the spotty matches every week, or do you think they'll need proper storylines and development? Sincere question.

Storylines and development would be nice, but it may be hard to showcase a bunch of different talent in the division if they are only given one segment a week. I don't feel like a lot of the WCW cruiserweight matches had too much behind them outside of the title picture, and even that was mostly just based on wins and losses. I don't think that the goal here is for compelling storytelling as much as it is a special attraction. Regardless, we should at least get a good to great match out of it each week.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Oddly enough, if you make the cruiserweights too much of stars, you're going to have to start mixing them in with the rest of the roster, and things start to get hairy.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Then again, the CWC only showcased two matches a week and made me care about a lot of people along the way. I suppose it can be done.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ugh, don't start me on that. Finn Balor, 190lbs, Heavyweight Division; Cedric Alexander, 205lbs, Cruiserweight Division. So obviously Finn Balor is pound-for-pound way better than Alexander, right? I don't get it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Ugh, don't start me on that. Finn Balor, 190lbs, Heavyweight Division; Cedric Alexander, 205lbs, Cruiserweight Division. So obviously Finn Balor is pound-for-pound way better than Alexander, right? I don't get it.

Yeah, that is kinda bizarre. Also, how much does Enzo Amore weigh? Kayfabe-wise, they should explain that competitors have a choice of which division to compete in...or something. I dunno. Anything to help it make sense, I suppose. I'm gonna try not to think about it too hard, though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I looked this up the other day. His Wikipedia bills him as...200lbs, which is heavier than the dude they just put the World Title. Geez. He seems smaller. Probably because they put him next to Cass all the time.

[Emperor Smeat]

Oddly enough, if you make the cruiserweights too much of stars, you're going to have to start mixing them in with the rest of the roster, and things start to get hairy.

Depends on how the WWE handles that issue. Needs to be better than the last time they had a Cruiser division and also not follow the same mistakes WCW did when they were around.

Best case is the division being used as a launching pad for the big stars of the division to move on to potential greater things. Sort of like what the WWE did with Rey Mysterio except with more guys benefiting.

[Simple Fan]

Universal Championship isn't really a heavyweight title though. Has it nowhere on the title and is never called one. More of a openweight championship I guess.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I will also say that I find Epico's impressions of Enzo hilarious.

So hilarious that I even made this hilarious gif.

http://s13.postimg.org/cpfnlezjb/ezgif_383406680.gif

Stolen from Owens. He should be fired.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

So why wasn't the top crusierweight (the champ) featured in a match or at all?

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Kota Ibushi is in such a good position, because he gets to sit back, wait and see if these guys get over and are booked decently, and then come in later once the dust has settled and basically be the biggest attraction in there. Ricochet also has that advantage, provided that he still wants to sign with WWE down the line.

Ibushi apparently doesn't want to. He doesn't want to be tied down anywhere so he can do whatever he wants and he quit NJPW because of the schedule. With WWE's being even worse, I don't think he'll ever sign full time.

[Anybody Thrilla]

So why wasn't the top crusierweight (the champ) featured in a match or at all?

PPV attraction, I reckon.

Not really, but he comes with a built in rub. He'll defend successfully at the PPV, I presume. Final boss type shit.

[XL]

Do you think they'll get that way if they're just doing the spotty matches every week, or do you think they'll need proper storylines and development? Sincere question.
This was one of the questions I asked myself; I prefer storyline-driven wrestling where you're given a reason to care about one guy over the other, but, having watched the CWC final with my wife (a casual fan, I suppose) she was impressed, so maybe there is merit in just sending them out to wow the crowd.

The pitfall of that is that the style of the guys at the top of the card is very cruiserweight-ish so what sets the CW Division apart?

Maybe a more sports-like presentation, with rankings or a league based on round robin style match ups (3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, 0 for losing) where you can do short promos during intros to allow the guys to talk about what motivates them going into the match (whether they've been on a losing streak, or are desperate to gain "points" or move up the rankings, you can have the guys talk about how the previous match with the guy their facing - presuming you're having everybody face off twice). Maybe a small tweak to the presentation by calling it the Cruiserweight League? You could have the guy(s) finishing bottom of the League get "demoted" (to NXT or snapped up by SDL?) and some new guys bought in every 6 months or so?
Ibushi apparently doesn't want to. He doesn't want to be tied down anywhere so he can do whatever he wants and he quit NJPW because of the schedule. With WWE's being even worse, I don't think he'll ever sign full time.
Has he left NJPW? I was imaging a WWE Cruiserweight Champion vs. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion match at WM.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Has he left NJPW? I was imaging a WWE Cruiserweight Champion vs. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion match at WM.

He's left his full time deal, but I bet he'll still be used. He's too damn good for him not to work on occasion here and there and I'll bet he has a match on the pre-WM NXT even.

[Cool King]

Stolen from Owens. He should be fired.

You're right.

Owens should be fired.

[Simple Fan]

Owens is great. Not sure what some people have against him. Great on the mic and also has a good look. Solid in the ring and can keep up with anybody.

[Cool King]

I must be the only guy who doesn't see this apparent greatness he has on the mic.

I find his mic skills to be really really bad. The way he talks just reminds me of how kids talk on the mic when they're pretending to be their favourite wrestler.

He also pauses way to many times during his promos and what makes it worse is that the majority of the time, he finishes his very short sentences with a rising intonation.

So when he's cutting a promo. And he pauses. It just gives. The promo. A big amateur feel.

To me, everything about him just screams "indy-licious". His "improv" is probably the worst, but when I see him on Raw, I don't see a "WWE Superstar", I just see some indy guy who must have gotten lost on his way to a gym hall. Some people may like that, that he's still "pure" and doesn't fit in with this "WWE Superstar" image, but it just makes him stand out, but not in a good way.

In a roster where you have these larger than life characters, these giant men who look like they could rip your arms off, and masked men that fly around the ring and wrestlers wearing outlandish costumes and men with bodies that look like they were chiseled out of stone, it just looks stupid that you also have some fat guy in gym shorts with a borderline neckbeard and spiked hair from 1999.

I want some characters with my wrestling and Owens has no character. No matter who he's facing, he always looks like he shouldn't be there. Hell, just ditch the gym shorts and the sleeveless T-shirt and that would add character to him. In fact, that would make him look more intimidating. Just lose that but keep the singlet he wears underneath his T-shirt and shorts that he uses to stop his gut hanging out.

Why not work that into the current storyline? That he ditches the gym shorts and all that and wears a singlet to "look more professional" as he's now Triple H's "chosen one", because right now, I just find him to be completely bland. Hell, I even find Baron Corbin more interesting than him and Baron Corbin sucks.

What adds to his blandness for me is his gimmick, his "thing". What is Owens' "thing"? It's that he's a fighter "KO", "The Prizefighter", "Fight Owens Fight" and all that. Well no shit, he's a wrestler, he's supposed to be a fighter. So all that means nothing to me. You're not exactly going to get a pacifistic wrestler, are you? And in the very rare occasion that you do, this wrestler is not really going to amount to anything but a jobber. So this "He loves to fight" Finlay and Sheamus type thing to me means nothing and is just saying "He's a wrestler".

Just an attire change and give him a manager for mic duties and you get a completely different Kevin Owens. You get a wrestler with character, and not a wrestler who wrestles or a fighter who fights.

If I'm not mistaken, the Raw ratings have been going down or at least struggling since he became champion, so I can't be the only one who doesn't buy into Owens.

[Cool King]

Well, that turned into a mild rant.

I didn't mean for it to be like that, but there you go.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm actually with you there, Cool King. Well, not on the promos. I can see your complaints, but for what he's trying to achieve (annoying heel), he at least does it without having a really grating voice. I find his delivery to be quite good a lot of the time. Maybe he's doing them in that style to appeal to Triple H or something? But I find him to be very matter-of-fact and calculating on the mic.

I'm with you on the look. Since John Cena, I've always hated it when top guys don't wear proper wrestling attire. It might be a little thing to some people, but I think to your average fan it is a huge thing. When you're already hooked, you don't care if a guy is shit, because you're enjoying everything ironically anyway. But when you stand back and look at things, the psychology of it is all wrong, and I'm a BIG fan of psychology. I've realized that it is what I value most in professional wrestling right now.

My problem with the psychology of top guys not wearing proper ring attire is that it looks like they don't give a shit. That may have been cool in the late-nineties, but even Austin wore trunks and boots, and had a glittery fucking vest for fuck's sake. The whole "I just rocked up like this" appearance kind of buries whoever takes the effort to actually get ready for their matches. If Kevin Owens can just throw on some baggy shorts and be the best wrestler in the world, then why should ANYONE wear trunks, or singlets or proper pants.

It bothers me with Dean Ambrose too. The dude wrestles in fucking tight-fitting jeans. How is that practical? Oh, because he's super-awesome? It betrays a big self-confidence issue these guys have with their bodies, and the company clearly shares it, because they market them like this.

On the issue of Owens not looking like he belongs in there? I completely agree. I never used to be a size guy, but then I saw him the other week against Roman Reigns, and it just made Reigns look bad for picking on him. I know the guy can move and does cool movez, but I just don't want to pay money to see him in a real fight. As a chickenshit heel he works well, but the other guy doesn't get much from beating him, other than looking like a dick who beats up relatively short fat guys.

Maybe he'd work better as a babyface? Roman Reigns sees the light or Triple H realizes he's got Bobby Roode under contract and appoints them to the top, Owens is out, but he's not going to go away without making Triple H's life a living hell? I dunno. I think his true value would be as a manager/commentator, but I know I'm in the minority there. People have kind of conditioned themselves to disregard the suspension of disbelief aspect of professional wrestling and the things that kind of keep its perception in the doldrums.

[Mr. Nerfect]

How the fuck was The Undertaker supposed to sell for Kevin Owens at WrestleMania when he suggested that match? Seriously. Taker takes off the hat, rolls his eyes, Owens chews gum and looks confident as the crowd chants for both men? They got and tie-up and Taker backs him into a corner, because at 50-whatever he looks stronger than Owens at 30-whatever. Taker backs off, Owens rakes him the eye, reverses and pummels Taker as Taker acts like the gum Owens chewed enhances his strength 100x. Then Owens hits a cannonball, which Taker sells like the Bronco Buster from X-Pac, if that was death to him in 1999.

People are tuning out on Owens, and I think it might be connected to credibility issues. I'm all for amazing talent of all sizes being given opportunities (I was lobbying as hard as anybody for Daniel Bryan), but that doesn't mean you get to throw away credibility.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This was one of the questions I asked myself; I prefer storyline-driven wrestling where you're given a reason to care about one guy over the other, but, having watched the CWC final with my wife (a casual fan, I suppose) she was impressed, so maybe there is merit in just sending them out to wow the crowd.

The pitfall of that is that the style of the guys at the top of the card is very cruiserweight-ish so what sets the CW Division apart?

Maybe a more sports-like presentation, with rankings or a league based on round robin style match ups (3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, 0 for losing) where you can do short promos during intros to allow the guys to talk about what motivates them going into the match (whether they've been on a losing streak, or are desperate to gain "points" or move up the rankings, you can have the guys talk about how the previous match with the guy their facing - presuming you're having everybody face off twice). Maybe a small tweak to the presentation by calling it the Cruiserweight League? You could have the guy(s) finishing bottom of the League get "demoted" (to NXT or snapped up by SDL?) and some new guys bought in every 6 months or so?

Cruiserweights being all over the roster is a weird thing to separate from this division.

The thing about the CWC is that it kind of was a story in and of itself. The tournament itself introduced us to all these personalities, and we, and they, all knew they would be cut down until there was only one left. By the time you get to the end of it, you have the grandeur of these men having at least won a series of matches to get to where they are. Build is an important part of wrestling, and you don't always need to be along for the entire ride to sense when something is special.

The crowd, the commentators, the guys themselves -- they were all part of this build; all part of this story. The goal of the final four men was all the same, but their motivations were very different -- and that is where the drama came from. Gran Metalik was representing lucha libra; ZSJ wanted to prove that he is the technical prodigy everybody says he is; Kota Ibushi was the somewhat arrogant sure-thing; TJ Perkins was the upset kid that had been homeless before and didn't want to go back.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If I'm not mistaken, the Raw ratings have been going down or at least struggling since he became champion, so I can't be the only one who doesn't buy into Owens.

Be careful how loudly you say that. There's a trend lately of people getting ruffled if you use statistics to back up trends that stand contrary to the internet fan "This is Awesome! *clap* *clap* *clap, clap, clap*" consensus.

[Tom Guycott]

http://shop.wwe.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-main/default/dw1cbe616c/images/large/W11810.jpg

I thought this was a Tyrion Lannister cosplay, until the SR on the belt gave it away.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Cool King, Jinder Mahal is a pacifistic wrestler now.

[Cool King]

True, he is in a way, but do you really see him being anything more than a jobber with that gimmick?

Can you actually picture him winning a championship?

Because as much as I like Mahal and would like him to have success, I really don't see him being anything more than a jobber, even with his new gimmick.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I do think that it's just going to be a little sizzle to give the appearance of doing something with him. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a championship run, but stranger things have happened. Maybe it catches on and Mahal moves his way up? I'm thinking positively for you, Cool King.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Anything can happen in the World Wrestling Federation!

[Ruien]

I doubt it. Mahal is probably the second person lowest on the totem poll on Raw now. The other being Axel.

[Ruien]

But its nice he has a gimmick and there is always a need for people in his position.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I can see him sneaking a win from Darren Young.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I like Curtis Axel more than Jinder Mahal. Just wanted to cause some friction.