Latest WrestleMania 33 rumors - UPDATED in Post 817

[slik]

From various dirt sheets:


Shaq/Big Show - definitely happening

Brock/Shane - might get bumped to the Royal Rumble to help sell out Alamodome, but otherwise a WM33 program.

HHH/Seth - might get bumped to the Royal Rumble to help sell out Alamodome, but otherwise a sure bet for WM33. If it gets bumped to the RR, HHH might not wrestle at WM33.

Cena/AJ - Cena might win RR. His WM program this year will see him aiming to tie Ric Flair's World Title record.

Undertaker/Orton - Orton's heel turn is legit and is the launchpad of Taker/Orton at WM33. Orton is a past favorite opponent of Taker's at WM. Might be Taker's endgame match and previously Taker wanted to lay down for Randy at WM. If that happens expect this to help give the Wyatt Family a rub from Undertaker since Orton is aligned with them currently.


As for Roman, Kevin Owens, Chris Jericho, Dean Ambrose and others...


Roman could end up facing Strowman. They wanted to do a big Strowman push last year but he wasn't ready for it yet. Strowman's monster push on RAW will continue through the Rumble with Strowman looking strong during it. Roman could also end up facing Kevin Owens at WrestleMania. Jericho is scheduled to wrap up his current WWE run before WM but if he's talked into extending it then Jericho/Owens could be a WM program. If he doesn't stay until WM Jericho/Owens will likely happen before then. Dean Ambrose's likely prospect is Baron Corbin so far as they want to push Corbin strong. Corbin, like Braun, is in the Survivor Series match for Raw vs SD and like Strowman he will look strong in the Royal Rumble. If Daniel Bryan is given a final match it might be against Miz. If not, Miz's program will somehow be tied to Bryan still, which is why they keep pushing the Bryan/Miz feud on tv. Finn Balor will be cleared by WM and be featured on the card as well. Goldberg will not wrestle at WM but is the front-runner to be the headliner for next year's Hall of Fame.

[Fignuts]

Shane vs taker was already jumping the shark. Shane vs brock would outright murder everyone's suspension of disbelief.

[Fignuts]

Only way I could see it working is if it wad a no dq match and shane brought in someone like joe or angle to do the actual fighting. At which point you might as well just have brock vs joe/angle.

[Anybody Thrilla]

All of that honestly sounds good to me outside of Brock/Shane.

[Fignuts]

I'm kind of torn. On one hand I would really like to see Taker vs Cena. It's the last really big taker match left. But the Styles vs Cena feud has been the best of the year, and with the added element of tying flair's record, ending the feud at mania would be a great story.

[slik]

I'm not crazy about Undertaker facing Orton again - but - Taker/Orton work well together and the chance of Orton injuring Undertaker in a match is very minimal. Like Cena, he'll protect Taker and the match will have lots of psychology to it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Taker/Cena only appealed to me when the streak was still on the line. Cena seemed like he could have believably broken it. Now, I'm not so into the idea of a match between the two.

[Destor]

Its November guys...

Might as well hang easter decorations

[The CyNick]

I dont think Brock vs Shane will happen at Mania. I would rather see Shane bring someone in to face Brock. I would love to see Shane bring back Kurt and have them build up Brock v Angle at Mania.

Cena vs Styles makes a lot of sense. Cena should tie or break the record at major events - Mania being the most logical.

Orton v Taker would at least be a good match. I think they could build it up. I think they should start putting Taker's career on the line for each Mania match. Kinda like reliving the streak, and gives someone another chance to get a rub off him like Brock got.

HHH vs Seth is very logical. I also wouldnt mind seeing them do something like The Shield vs HHH and two others. The two others would be NXT call ups (maybe Nakamura and Samoa Joe). Would be a good way to introduce new guys on the big stage. Plus the crowd there would eat it up. It would heel The Shield though, but that might be a good thing.

[mike adamle]

Would be alright with all of that, not exactly what I want, but none of it is bad.

I'd rather see AJ face Taker or Brock, but we know the Cena match will be a classic so I get it.

Cena vs. Shane is something that actually appeals to me, a lot more than Shane-Brock.

If Orton is really a Wyatt member I'd like to see Orton, Wyatt, and Harper vs. The Shield.

I think Brock vs. Owens is the way to go if you wanna make that Universal title mean anything.

I hope Goldberg is on the show and faces either Cesaro, Big E, or Braun Strowman if they're hell bent on pushing him.

Triple H needs to be on there, I hope he faces Cesaro or Sheamus

[RP]

Shaq/Big Show - Why?

Brock/Shane - Why?

HHH/Seth -I guess

Cena/AJ - somewhat cool if Cena dont go shoot a movie afterwards.

Undertaker/Orton - Why?

[RP]

Has WWE gone a Wrestlemania in the last 8 years or so without rehashing some old name talent to draw ratings? Thats a bad company imo.

[RP]

Another troubling theme. The underdog WM Title winner cant win without doing it in a 3- way match most of the time.

[RP]

YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[mike adamle]

Hoping to see The Rock return and have a match since they'll be in Florida

[RP]

Hoping to see The Rock return and have a match since they'll be in Florida

Your hopes will most likely come true because WWE needs to find ratings somewhere.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I mean, they'll probably explain 'why' in the build up to those matches. Of course they wouldn't make sense in November.

[Fignuts]

Has WWE gone a Wrestlemania in the last 8 years or so without rehashing some old name talent to draw ratings? Thats a bad company imo.

Veterans coming back has been a part of wrestling for decades. I don't know why some people have such a big problem with it. Yes, you need to build new stars, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Taker/Cena only appealed to me when the streak was still on the line. Cena seemed like he could have believably broken it. Now, I'm not so into the idea of a match between the two.

I'm in total agreement with this. I won't go too in-depth with it, but I've done a lot of pondering on the match, and I think it would do more harm than good. Like, minimal harm -- it won't ruin either guy, obviously -- but I think it's a match where the finish is going to be dull no matter what you do. Styles vs. Cena in the match and Taker vs. Orton, while not my choice, makes sense if Taker wants it. Why the fuck not? I had Orton mingling with Ambrose, Wyatt and Harper in my projected card, but I don't have any philosophical problem with Taker vs. Orton.

EXCEPT -- I think that the second person that beats Taker is going to associated with Brock -- the other guy that beat Taker. If you have Orton beat Taker, that just sets up Brock vs. Orton, and we've seen that. That's why I'd rather see Taker put over someone like Rusev. You've also got Rusev for a lot longer than Orton, hopefully, so I think really cementing Orton in that league is unnecessary.

[The CyNick]

Has WWE gone a Wrestlemania in the last 8 years or so without rehashing some old name talent to draw ratings? Thats a bad company imo.

To me that's what makes Mania Mania.

There's tons of TV, guys have to work with one another, so it's hard to keep matches special. The part timers give the show the special feel.

It's no different than a show like SNL doing a special show and bringing back old cast members. Everyone gets a kick out of their shtick and regular cast comes back the next week.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Triple H vs. Seth Rollins is something I see being blown off before WrestleMania. I'm thinking Rollins has a good chance of winning the Royal Rumble. I think they'll put Owens against Rollins and Balor in a Triple Threat match. Something Michael Cole said at Clash of Champions about there only being three men who have been NXT Champion and World Champion made me think "Fuck, they're going to do that, aren't they?" It sort of makes sense too. Rollins keeps getting screwed out of the title and needs something, so giving him the Rumble seems like a nice little "atta boy" for him to try and remind people you want him to be taken as a star. Balor can return in time for WrestleMania, use his rematch clause, and cunningly sneak into the match. Not a heel turn, but foreshadowing for it. Owens wants the Triple Threat because he doesn't want either man one-on-one. Takes the pressure off them to have a Triple Threat too, because you just know Vince doesn't seem them as true main eventers.

Triple H will be wrestling at WrestleMania though, I just think it'll be against someone else. My prediction since WrestleMania 32 has been Nakamura. You just know that Triple H's ego wants to be Nakamura's first WrestleMania opponent so he can take some sort of credit for exposing him to the world. Even if it doesn't lead to a call-up for Nakamura and he defends the NXT Title against Triple H. It just seems fitting. And it won't be bad, by the way. I'd actually be down for Triple H taking the Kinshasa.

Brock vs. Shane I was fine with until Brock vs. Goldberg happens. You can't have Shane taken seriously after Brock beats Goldie. Shane can bring someone in. Bobby Lashley is who I had in mind, but that all depends on whether or not they want him. Kurt Angle returning for one match fits the WWE mentality of running all Brock's old opponents against him. Shawn Michaels is the dream however. Shane is standby. And I do think that match will happen, but I think it will happen down the line.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've got no desire to see Show vs. Shaq one-on-one. To me, that's a tag match. I don't know whether you put Show and Shaq on the same side as each other this babyface special attraction team or if you put them with different partners that can bump for the other big man, but this will work much better with partners. I eventually came to Big Show & Shaq vs. Sheamus & Cesaro, which I still think is probably the best way to go.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd bring Shaq in for the Royal Rumble. He and Show fight near the ropes, and Cesaro or Sheamus dumps them out. Cesaro and Sheamus win the RAW Tag Titles and then develop issues with Big Show. He beats either Sheamus or Cesaro via DQ one RAW when the other guy gets in the ring and helps with a beat-down. Shaq then hits the ring and chases off both men with a steel chair. He and Show shake hands and we've got our Tag Title match for WrestleMania.

You shoot interviews with Shaq about how he's a life-long fan, and he's secretly been training for this for a long time. He's here to be serious and he's here to be a champion. Cesaro and Sheamus respond by talking about how they've made a lifelong profession of this, and this ain't the NBA, fella. At WrestleMania, Cesaro works his magic as best he can, Sheamus moves around like a cruiserweight for Shaq and Show. Cesaro manages to Swing Shaq and body slam Show, but Sheamus eventually gets pinned with a Shaq Chokeslam and we've got new RAW Tag Champs.

I don't know how many dates you can get Shaq in for, but you can have him and Show defend the belts against The Shining Stars at the next RAW PPV if you can get him in. The same can be done with Gallows & Anderson. At some point, The Revival earn a title shot, but backstage they attack Shaq's leg. Big Show goes out to defend the belts in a Handicap Match. Shaq hobbles down to the ring, but The Revival head out and kick his leg as he makes his way to ringside. They finish off Show and are the new Tag Team Champions. Shaq gets into the ring and helps Big Show up, but gets the Knockout Punch right in the face. These two are on.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Taker/Orton is a lock, then I'd like to see Rusev go against Dean Ambrose, as opposed to the Corbin/Ambrose stuff. I did enjoy Corbin and Ambrose's SmackDown match a few weeks back, but I just see a lot more in Rusev at this point. Make that the interpromotional match of the show. Ambrose eliminates Rusev from the Royal Rumble and Rusev becomes obsessed with "Stupid American Dean." I'm fine with Corbin entering the Andre Battle Royal and trying to be the first back-to-back winner.

[RP]

Why in the hell are they wasting Orton so much. I mean, between the injuries and meaningless matches that go nowhere, he's really been a waste the last 4 years now.

[slik]

Roman/Strowman getting more traction


There has been talk about having Roman Reigns face Braun Strowman at next year’s WrestleMania 33 event.

Based off of upcoming advertisements, the plan right now is to have Strowman compete in a series body slam challenges against The Big Show, which will ultimately lead to a match between the two. Strowman would go over Big Show and move onto a feud against Roman Reigns shortly after The Royal Rumble. -NODQ.com



Brock/Goldberg III is in the works for WM33. The program with Shane McMahon, much like the one last year with Bray Wyatt, has been put on hold/cancelled for the time being.

[XL]

A series of Bodyslam Challenges?

[Mercenary]

Brock vs Shane sounds like Brock's kind of match where he has to do the least amount of work as possible

[Emperor Smeat]

According to Forbes, Sting is pushing for a match against Taker at Mania next year.

Wants it to be his retirement match from wrestling and has actually been delaying some surgery he needs since it could legit end his career before having this potential match.

WWE Hall of Famer and recently-retired Sting was a guest on a recent edition of WWE Network’s ‘Legends with JBL‘ and had some very interesting and rather direct remarks when discussing a potential match with the Undertaker.

“Yeah, that’s the unfinished business. I’ve always wanted to have that match. I know wrestling fans have always wanted to see it too” Sting said when referring to a match with the Undertaker. Sting hinted that his career was ending in a way he did not envision it ending.

Sting also mentioned that he has been putting off neck surgery because it would mean the definitive end of his days in the squared circle.

“I am supposed to have surgery, but I’m having so many mixed messages out there. And the one thing I keep hearing is ‘if you’re not having side effects and you’re okay, then don’t do it.’”

It appears that there is more to the JBL interview, which caused quite a stir on the internet, in regards to Sting’s desires.

According to a source, Sting has been pushing WWE to allow him to compete in one last match and that match is against the Undertaker at WrestleMania 33. Sting has brought his request to the decision makers in WWE but it is unclear just how WWE will move forward.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The last thing WWE wants is for Sting to end up paralyzed in a WWE ring and to make more work for Taker. Sure, Sting wants the match, but how about Taker? If his preferred opponent is Orton, I can't see them changing those plans.

[Cool King]

Roman/Strowman getting more traction

There has been talk about having Roman Reigns face Braun Strowman at next year’s WrestleMania 33 event.

Based off of upcoming advertisements, the plan right now is to have Strowman compete in a series body slam challenges against The Big Show, which will ultimately lead to a match between the two. Strowman would go over Big Show and move onto a feud against Roman Reigns shortly after The Royal Rumble. -NODQ.com

Bodyslam Challenges?

Pfft, no.

Although, I do like the idea of Strowman vs Reigns at WrestleMania. Make it a United States Championship match and we're good to go. Strowman defeating Reigns for the title and at WrestleMania of all places, is just what Strowman needs.

He's already been great so far, so doing that would just be the icing on the cake and cement him as being this unstoppable monster that the WWE is claiming Strowman to be.

[XL]

If Taker/Orton is the current plan, and Sting is up to working, they need to change course. It won't set the world alight (but neither would a match with Orton) but it's a match people have waited for for years, and it's not a re-tread.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The problem with Reigns vs. Strowman is that no one in the smark community cares. Reigns has the perception of being the golden boy and the company will not change it until he turns heel; while Strowman is seen as a big anachronistic lug. He might be better than what people think -- and Reigns almost certainly is -- but a WrestleMania card is going to shit all over that and no one will get anything from either outcome.

Reigns is best when he is fighting other babyfaces. That way the crowd reaction doesn't ruin the whole vibe of what they are trying to achieve. He can play the dominant force by default, and it works. Reigns vs. Styles and Reigns vs. Balor are perfect examples of this. Sami Zayn would be a perfect opponent for Reigns. Cesaro could get it done. Rollins and/or Ambrose with it being okay to cheer for the other guys. Ziggler would be a fine opponent. I don't give a fuck about brand alignment, as you can tell.

Reigns vs. Strowman is just going to strike the wrong chords with everybody.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Taker/Orton is the current plan, and Sting is up to working, they need to change course. It won't set the world alight (but neither would a match with Orton) but it's a match people have waited for for years, and it's not a re-tread.

Sting is basically worthless in WWE after the loss to Triple H and Whiny Rollins. I mean, a lot of the mystique is gone. No one will buy Sting beating Undertaker at Mania and the match will have very little by way of genuine drama. It would be a lot more disappointing than people think it would be. It's better in the head.

[Sepholio]

Sting vs Taker at mania ends in a no contest when both men collapse from exhaustion 3 minutes and 57 seconds into the match. #RetirementMatch

[The CyNick]

I've got no desire to see Show vs. Shaq one-on-one. To me, that's a tag match. I don't know whether you put Show and Shaq on the same side as each other this babyface special attraction team or if you put them with different partners that can bump for the other big man, but this will work much better with partners. I eventually came to Big Show & Shaq vs. Sheamus & Cesaro, which I still think is probably the best way to go.

You lose the Sportscenter appeal when you add in more guys. It's not like you want them to give you 15 minutes. Just have Shaq slam Show and everyone can go home.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Boring.

[Mr. Nerfect]

History proves you wrong on that, but okay.

[Emperor Smeat]

According to PWI, WWE is currently considering Styles vs Taker for the WWE title at Royal Rumble next year.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/5eapgu/mike_johnson_pwinsider_drops_rumor_on_possible/?sort=new (Original post ended up misreading the event rumored thinking it was at Mania for Styles-Taker).

Might be a way for WWE to do Cena-Taker and maybe Cena's 16th reign if they were to go that route for Mania. Or maybe Orton-Taker for the WWE title if Taker were to win at the Rumble and WWE keeps that match as the plan for Mania.

[Ruien]

The problem with Reigns vs. Strowman is that no one in the smark community cares.

Mania is the one time a year where WWE does not have to cater to the smark community (At least so far. This will probably change shortly).

[Damian Rey 2.0]

No interest in a Taker title run. Much more interested in him going against Cena, with his career on the line.

[Juan]

A series of Bodyslam Challenges?

They'll probably do it at a few house shows before doing it on TV, i assume

[Juan]

Also, they can build Cena/Taker for WM and do the AJ match at RR without putting the title on Taker.

A "first time ever" match between Cena and Taker should be enough of an "attraction" for WM

[Mr. Pierre]

Taker vs Cena is WWE's last true mega match. Wouldnt be shocked if the belt is on the line and Cena gets #16 from Taker

[Evil Vito]

I can actually totally get behind Taker vs. Cena for the belt. Yeah it obviously had more appeal when the Streak was alive, but it could still be a lot of fun. Also with the Streak off the table people are far less averse to the idea of Cena beating Taker clean as a whistle at WrestleMania.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's so going to be Taker/Cena for the belt. Gah.

[Mr. Pierre]

I'm gonna try and piece a 5 hour card together. Probably change by tomorrow but meh:

Undertaker (c) vs John Cena
-Taker beats Styles in Alamo, Johnny seeks #16

Kevin Owens (c) w/Chris Jericho vs Finn Balor (RR winner)
-Balor chases belt he never lost. Add water

Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar III
-Bill is the Beast's kryptonite - fun attraction

Triple H vs Seth Rollins
-About time Rollins gets a babyface feud he can latch onto. Let it fly

Roman Reigns (c) vs Braun Stroman
-Braun's only getting better and could be ready for this. Both are stars

Miz (c) vs (newly traded) Cesaro w/Daniel Bryan
-Gotta blow off the Bryan/Miz feud with Bryan picking a rep. Why not have it be the guy he's publically pushed for?

AJ Styles vs Shane McMahon
-Yes, I too would rather see Styles tear it up with a real wrestler, but let's face it - this match is an attraction. Story is simple, these 2 start feuding due to Styles getting hot at the fact that Taker was handed a title match, Shane is a biased GM, etc. Based on skill sets, I'd compare this to HBK vs Vince from WM22. It would rule, but in a different fashion

Andre the Giant Battle Royal: top promoted including New Day, Zayn

Sasha Banks (c) vs Bayley
-Sasha turns on her best bud and Bayley chases, piggy backing their Brooklyn showdown

Dean Ambrose vs Baron Corbin
-Ambrose and Ellsworth go separate ways post-TLC. Sometime in March, Corbin continues his bully gimmick and writes off Ellsworth with a nasty bump. Ambrose comes to his old buddy's aide and sets up a test for Corbin and maybe a wakeup call program for Ambrose to find his groove again

Becky Lynch (c) vs Nikki Bella
-Babyface vs babyface matchup

Bray Wyatt & Randy Orton (c) vs American Alpha
-Let this Orton/Wyatt thing ride. It's awesome. No need to blow it off as an afterthought at Mania. Give it the spotlight at another Spring PPV.

Multi-man Ladder match for CW Championship

[Mr. Nerfect]

That's actually very similar to how I see the actual card going.

[Evil Vito]

My predicted card is pretty similar to Mr. Pierre's but with a few differences including the build:

WWE World Championship
John Cena vs. The Undertaker (C)

Like Pierre's card I have Balor challenging for his brand's title too, but I'm not sure if he'll be ready by the Rumble. So Cena wins the Rumble, possibly as a surprise return - joins Austin in the group of 3 time winners to add to his accolades as he chases #16.

WWE Universal Championship
Finn Balor vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kevin Owens (C)

I'd love Jeri-KO to stay together forever, but you know eventually WWE will have them turn on one another after teasing it many times. This COULD be a one on one match as Jericho might actually be back with Fozzy by this point, but if he sticks around I think he'll wiggle his way into this match as an actual participant.

Battle of the Part-Timers Part 3
Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar

This is essentially a lock.

We Haven't Forgotten About This Even Though We Haven't Followed Up Since August
Triple H vs. Seth Rollins

Again, a lock.

WWE United States Championship
Braun Strowman vs. Roman Reigns (C)

This is on Pierre's card and is being heavily rumored anyway. Doesn't particularly thrill me but I can understand the logic behind it.

WWE Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match
Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane vs. Luke Harper vs. Sami Zayn vs. Zack Ryder vs. The Miz (C)

I could see the Intercontinental Title ladder match carrying on being an annual thing. Bryan's last big moment as a WWE wrestler occurred in this very match, and he hates Miz for being a "coward" so booking him in one of these matches again plays into the story. Bryan announces 5 former Intercontinental champions as Miz's challengers, and the final entrant is announced as Sami Zayn who winds up being acquired in a trade with Raw.

#1 Contender's Match
AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe

I'm going on a limb with this one. Part of me thinks Samoa Joe will never come to the main roster and he's mainly around to help NXT. But I'm hoping he ends up as a Rumble mystery entrant, and he shows up on SmackDown where he's likely to be received as a face right away no matter what he was doing in NXT. This would just be a damn good match and would serve to set up Cena's post-WM program. Seeing these two competing at WrestleMania would also be an amusing LOLTNA moment.

The Wyatt Family Explodes!
Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton

I hope I'm wrong with this, I much prefer Pierre's Wyatt/Orton/Alpha match and I love Randy as a Wyatt. But I don't think WWE will be able to resist having them break up prematurely so they can have a Mania program, especially since Orton might be requesting time off and as a Wyatt that would mean taking the entire Family off air for periods of time.

Raw Women's Championship
Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte vs. Bayley (C)

Another triple threat for a Raw belt but there's no way in hell Charlotte isn't going to be in the Women's Title match and I don't see Sasha being left off either. I would actually say there's a chance Bayley wins the title at the PPV before Mania somehow, because I'm already projecting a bunch of title changes for this PPV as is.

SmackDown Women's Championship
Nikki Bella vs. Becky Lynch (C)

Again, this is very much the expected course of action. I'd rather swap this with the Raw match with Nikki being champ going in and Bayley being the beneficiary of the "big moment" title switch, but I think this way is more likely.

Token WrestleMania Celebrity Spot
Big Show, Luke Gallows, and Karl Anderson vs. Shaquille O'Neil, Kofi Kingston, and Big E w/ Xavier Woods

Big Show/Shaq seems unavoidable - but adding Gallows, Anderson, and The New Day to this mix helps get more guys on the show and might make the match watchable and a fun little midcard match.

Raw Tag Team Championships
Cesaro and Sheamus vs. The Revival (C)

I expect to be The Revival to be the ones to finally dethrone The New Day after they've broken Demolition's record. I actually can see the Cesaro/Sheamus angle carrying on well into next year. This can be the moment the team either finally comes together fully to win the tag belts, or they can lose and break up/

SmackDown Tag Team Championships
The Usos vs. The American Alpha (C)

I mean, these two are clearly the best teams on SmackDown. If the Wyatts/Alpha match can't happen - this is obviously the best possible showcase of the blue brand's tag division.

WWE Cruiserweight Championship
Kalisto vs. Gran Metalik (C)

Metalik's with WWE full time now I believe, him having the belt by this point is just me working on a hunch. Kalisto should have been on Raw anyway with the cruiserweight division, in this scenario I'm imagining he's the guy sent to Raw in the trade for Sami Zayn.

4th Annual Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal
Aiden English, Apollo Crews, Baron Corbin, Big Cass, Bo Dallas, Curt Hawkins, Curtis Axel, Darren Young, Epico, Enzo Amore, Fandango, Goldust, Heath Slater, Jack Swagger, James Ellsworth, Jinder Mahal, Kenny, Konnor, Mark Henry, Mikey, Mojo Rawley, Neville, Primo, R-Truth, Rhyno, Rusev, Simon Gotch, Titus O'Neil, Tyler Breeze, Viktor

Some of these guys might be hurt (Mark Henry), others might not even be full time with the roster (Spirit Squad) but this field neatly worked out to 30 dudes. Replace whoever you need to with cruiserweights or random legends to make up the field as needed. I'm thinking Big Cass takes this and begins his first steps towards being a singles competitor.

-----

This card is fucking huge but bear in mind last year's Mania was a beyond ridiculous 7 hours between the pre-show and main card. Clearly some of these matches would be tossed onto the pre-show but it should be doable. If I had to consolidate a match it would definitely be Wyatt/Orton, as mentioned I'd much rather see them tag against Alpha.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE World Championship
The Undertaker (c) vs. John Cena

Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg III

Triple Threat Match for the Universal Championship
Kevin Owens (c) vs. Finn Balor vs. Chris Jericho

AJ Styles vs. Shane McMahon

Triple H vs. Seth Rollins

Big Show vs. Shaquille O'Neal

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal
Featuring Baron Corbin, Braun Strowman, Mark Henry, The Hype Bros, Cesaro, Sheamus, Rusev, The New Day, Enzo & Cass, The Usos, Rhyno, Gallows & Anderson, The Spirit Squad, Titus O'Neil, Darren Young, Bo Dallas, Curtis Axel, the cruiserweights, etc.

SmackDown Tag Team Championship
Bray Wyatt & Randy Orton (c) vs. American Alpha

Fatal 4-Way Match for the RAW Women's Championship
Charlotte (c) vs. Sasha Banks vs. Bayley vs. Becky Lynch

United States Championship
Roman Reigns (c) vs. Dean Ambrose

SmackDown Women's Championship
Alexa Bliss (c) vs. Nikki Bella

Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Championship
The Miz (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kalisto vs. Apollo Crews vs. Heath Slater vs. Sami Zayn vs. Luke Harper vs. Kane

Kickoff Fatal 4-Way Tag Team Match for the RAW Tag Team Championship
Cesaro & Sheamus (c) vs. The New Day vs. Gallows & Anderson vs. Enzo & Cass

Kickoff Match for the Cruiserweight Championship
The Brain Kendrick (c) vs. Cedric Alexander or someone else, it really doesn't matter

Kickoff Women's Invitational
Natalya vs. Carmella vs. Naomi vs. Summer Rae vs. Emmalina vs. Eva Marie vs. Dana Brooke vs. Alicia Fox

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know how they get to Reigns vs. Ambrose, but I think they will get cold feet with Strowman and Corbin by then. Not to the point that either man will be out of a job or anything, but I see them making the Battle Royal their priority, since they are big, and big men like that trophy. Maybe they trade Sami Zayn for Dean Ambrose? It hardly seems fair, but I could see Foley and Bryan coming to that decision somehow.

People seem to be predicting Becky vs. Nikki, but I think they angle it so that Becky loses the belt to one of the heel girls on SmackDown, and that girl turns out to be behind the Nikki Bella attack at Survivor Series. From an in-ring perspective, I'd rather Natalya be that heel, but I think they're enamored with the Alexa Bliss persona at this point in time. An Alexa Bliss also has lower demands on it to deliver, and will likely be kept shorter and has less chance of being bumped for Nikki's big moment. Becky is traded for Nia Jax who reveals herself to be Alexa's ally -- so that The Rock's cousin can get on WrestleMania. Nikki wins the belt and Alexa blames Nia and gets destroyed by her after the match. Becky competes against the other Horsewomen at WrestleMania for the red belt.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd be fine if it they got rid of Kickoff, moved the RAW Tag Title match up and had Kendrick face Kota Ibushi for the Cruiserweight Title on the main show. If Ibushi agrees to be signed to a WWE contract, he wins the belt, but if not, Kendrick redeems his CWC loss. Mauro Ranallo and Daniel Bryan as commentators for that match, please. Bryan gets to make a WrestleMania entrance for it. Bryan is also involved in helping Shane McMahon "train" for AJ Styles, and is the driving force behind putting The Miz in such a dangerous match for the IC Championship -- "the match that ended my career."

Mick Foley interacts with The Rock at some point, and given that he was just named "Sexiest Man Alive," I bet they do something with him and a woman/women -- possibly Emmalina, since her gimmick seems to be an object of desire. The Rock has to beat up somebody, so maybe they'll wheel out The Fashion Police, Jinder Mahal, Bo Dallas or Curt Hawkins for that too. Then they'll be Stephanie McMahon. Rock will try to point out what a bitch she is and make Foley question his job loyalty, etc. Vague outline, but there will be some sort of clusterfuck segment like that and it'll go on way too long.

[The CyNick]

New Day will not be on the kickoff show. Too big of an act to be excluded from the main show. I'm guessing they pass the torch to Zo and Cass or they break up prior to Mania.

I don't see Becky on RAW unless one of the other Horsewomen comes the other way. Banks is going heel most likely, so maybe Charlotte joins the blue crew and becomes the first woman to win both belts. Meanwhile they do Banks vs Bayley.

I don't see Shane working a random match with AJ. I got a feeling there could be a Shield v Club match at Mania. If they want to just have Shane get killed, put him with Stroman. Although I'm sure the battle royal will be the showcase for Stroman.

If they could bring in McGregor, maybe he does something with Hunter. If not, maybe Shane vs Hunter. Or Rock v Hunter if he's available.

[Evil Vito]

I'd be all in on a Shield vs. Club match. Not sure how you get to that point with members of those groups spread across both shows - although I suppose it's possible WWE will completely ignore the brand split during WM season as they did in the last few years of the first brand extension.

[The CyNick]

I'd be all in on a Shield vs. Club match. Not sure how you get to that point with members of those groups spread across both shows - although I suppose it's possible WWE will completely ignore the brand split during WM season as they did in the last few years of the first brand extension.

I looked at the fact that AJ got powerbombed by The Shield at Survivor Series. You could do a thing at TLC where The Club jumps the barricade and puts Ambrose through a table to let AJ win. Then do some type of confrontation in the Rumble between the groups. Or have G&A try to interfere in the AJ v Taker match at the Rumble (assuming that's the direction), and then The Shield boys come through the crowd and cut off G&A. Leaves Taker and Styles alone and Taker wins. Ambrose and Styles would continue the fued on the SDL side, meanwhile Gallows and Anderson fued with Reigns and Rollins on RAW. The GMs just agree to allow the interpromtional match to happen at Mania.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Report: <br><br>WWE Is Discussing Possibly Having Shane McMahon vs Dean Ambrose At WrestleMania 33 <a href="https://t.co/GTtifHpYbE">pic.twitter.com/GTtifHpYbE</a></p>&mdash; Slice Wrestling (@EntSlice) <a href="https://twitter.com/EntSlice/status/804068611409281024">November 30, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

For those keeping track at home, current WM rumors are:



Shaq/Big Show
Roman Reigns/Braun Strowman
Shane McMahon/Dean Ambrose
Goldberg/Brock Lesnar
HHH/Seth Rollins

possibly Undertaker/Cena

[Evil Vito]

Poor Dean.

[slik]

I know...I really don't want Dean to job to Shane O Mac and his terrible punches...

[Mr. Pierre]

Would actually love that program..guaranteed to get time and attention regardless of who wins. They love Ambrose, so win/lose he'll come out fine.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I don't think he's gonna job. And in fact, this is prob a best case scenario for Dean. Who else is he gonna face?

Not to mention, it's likely he gets to turn heel here, which means a fresh take on his character, and it'd be a featured match where he can actually showcase himself, unlike his underwhelming as fuck match with Lesnar last year.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hmm. I'm flat on Ambrose, so I don't really care about that. On Talking Smack, AJ Styles skipped over Daniel Bryan to take shots at Shane McMahon. It'll be interesting to see if any more groundwork is laid for that.

Honestly, I'm starting to think that Ambrose ends up as one of 7 or 8 guys in an IC Title Ladder Match. His chances of winning it are probably quite high. Miz, him, Ziggler, Corbin, Kane, Kalisto, Harper & Crews round out the "important enough to not be in the Battle Royal, but not important enough for more focused programs" side of things.

[Mr. Nerfect]

For the women, although I would like to see Becky Lynch mix it up with the other Horsewomen, and while I don't think they had long-term plans at the start of the draft that included WrestleMania, I think that they probably will go Becky vs. Nikki now. The WWE don't really care about crowd reactions these days, and I think the hope will be that having an NXT girl in there will keep the crowd on side and be respectful and polite for the Nikki Bella wins the belt story.

I can't see them doing two singles matches for the women's belts though. They're very quickly running Charlotte/Sasha/Bayley combos into the ground, and I can see them wanting to put Nia Jax on the card, because of nepotism. Emmalina is returning, and I can see Vince and Kevin Dunn being huge fans of her. I said it when those pictures of Emma started popping up "If someone with power sees this she will be pushed as their biggest female star." Someone has noticed.

How about Charlotte vs. Emmalina on a RAW sometime, with Dana Brooke doing the turn on Charlotte to re-align with her first mentor. Charlotte becomes a de facto babyface and aligns with the other good girls to face the team of Emmalina, Dana Brooke & Nia Jax at WrestleMania? If they want a reason for Sasha and Bayley to help Charlotte, I guess they can just have Emma, Dana & Nia screw with them too, but you could have Emma do something dastardly like turn the Women's Title -- although staying in line with its history -- back into the Divas Title for her reign. All of Charlotte, Bayley & Sasha's hard work undone.

I'm still not sure The New Day get to do anything more special than be in a Fatal 4-Way with the other teams that are half-way over from RAW -- Sheamus & Cesaro likely being champs by that point, Gallows & Anderson because they've paid them a lot of money and Enzo & Cass because Enzo can talk.

The dude I can't really see much for is Sami Zayn. Triple H vs. Seth Rollins doesn't really pop, so if they wanted to go with the Owens vs. Rollins vs. Balor idea of the former NXT Champions that have reached the World Title level fighting, that might leave Chris Jericho free to work with Sami Zayn, provided that he's around still. I have a feeling that Jericho went over Zayn at Clash of Champions to set up a proper feud between them, but Jericho the buddy-buddy stuff with Kevin Owens overtook the Triple H elements of the story and anything planned between Y2J and Sami Zayn. Triple H can probably do a segment with The Rock and Mick Foley to make him feel special, and sit out of actual in-ring competition as a political statement about him changing roles. Hahahaha! Triple H sitting out of Mania?!? Yeah, right.

But that card would look like this:

* The Undertaker (c) vs. John Cena for the WWE World Title

* Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar III

* The Rock segment, also starring Triple H, Mick Foley and Stephanie McMahon

* Big Show vs. Shaq (Body Slam Challenge?)

* AJ Styles vs. Shane McMahon

* Kevin Owens (c) vs. Seth Rollins vs. Finn Balor for the RAW World Title

* Randy Orton & Bray Wyatt (c) vs. American Alpha for the SmackDown Tag Titles

* Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal

* Roman Reigns (c) vs. Braun Strowman for the US Title

* Chris Jericho vs. Sami Zayn

* Charlotte, Sasha Banks & Bayley vs. Emmalina, Dana Brooke & Nia Jax

* The Brian Kendrick (c) vs. Jack Gallagher for the Cruiserweight Title

* Becky Lynch (c) vs. Nikki Bella for the SmackDown Women's Title

* Sheamus & Cesaro (c) vs. The New Day vs. Gallows & Anderson vs. Enzo & Cass for the RAW Tag Titles

* The Miz (c) vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Baron Corbin vs. Kane vs. Kalisto vs. Apollo Crews vs. Luke Harper in a Ladder Match for the IC Title

[Mr. Nerfect]

I personally hope that the "I'm not going to let WrestleMania define me" thing means that Taker won't be wrestling there though. That's about as naive as thinking that Triple H won't take a spot though.

[slik]

IIRC Big Show has said WM33 will be his last match

[Evil Vito]

I would so much rather go with my idea of Shaq and New Day vs. Big Show and friends (I had Gallows and Anderson but any heels will do). Shaq/Big Show one on one will be such a fucking eyesore. Show deserves to end his career on a better note.

[The CyNick]

I would so much rather go with my idea of Shaq and New Day vs. Big Show and friends (I had Gallows and Anderson but any heels will do). Shaq/Big Show one on one will be such a fucking eyesore. Show deserves to end his career on a better note.

That's a decent idea. I still think the mainstream media prefers to talk about a one on one match rather than getting into multiple other personalities.

Matches like this are booked solely to get mainstream publicity, so I don't see them cluttering it up.

I really don't see the concern with this match. Shaq is athletic and charismatic. It will be heavily produced, I bet it's not the worst thing on the show.

[Jordan]

I would so much rather go with my idea of Shaq and New Day vs. Big Show and friends (I had Gallows and Anderson but any heels will do). Shaq/Big Show one on one will be such a fucking eyesore. Show deserves to end his career on a better note.

Agreed

[Jordan]

Would also like to see Braun and Big Show get thrown together and get along based on their brute badassness and then end up challenging Mark Henry and Shaq at WM in a Battle of Beheomoths where Braun turns on Show and starts a program that will be as revered as Flair/Steamboat.

[Big Vic]

Shaq will be the one to ends Brauns streak at Mania because it makes no sense and is bad for business.

[Jordan]

There isn't going to be a lot of singles matches this year.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I would so much rather go with my idea of Shaq and New Day vs. Big Show and friends (I had Gallows and Anderson but any heels will do). Shaq/Big Show one on one will be such a fucking eyesore. Show deserves to end his career on a better note.

I originally had that match planned out like that, then it changed it Big Show & Shaq vs. Cesaro & Sheamus, but I think they'll just go Show vs. Shaq because they don't care.

[slik]

Latest WrestleMania Plans:


Undertaker vs John Cena - WWE Title
Undertaker will win the belt from AJ Styles and the storyline will shift focus to if Cena can tie Ric Flair's 16 World Championships with Taker's career possibly on the line as well. Cena will win at WM33.


Roman Reigns vs Braun Strowman - Universal Title
Roman will recapture the Universal Title from Kevin Owens and Strowman's monster push will continue all the way up to WM33.


Brock Lesnar vs Bill Goldberg
Brock and Goldberg will have an altercation at the Rumble with Lesnar determined to get his win back, culminating in a Lesnar victory at WrestleMania.


Stephanie McMahon vs Ronda Rousey
There is a chance Charlotte could take Stephanie's place. If Stephanie wrestles look for her to have muscle at ringside in the form of Nia Jax.


Shane McMahon vs Dean Ambrose
This one will feature crazy bumps and spots.


HHH vs Seth Rollins
The long gestating feud will culminate at WM33


Kevin Owens vs Chris Jericho
The long building feud will culminate at WM33


Big Show vs Shaq
This might be made into a tag match with New Day/Shaw vs Big Show/To Be Determined. Expected to be Big Show's final match with WWE.


Randy Orton vs Bray Wyatt
Orton will turn face again in time for WM33


Other Notes:
AJ Styles, Finn Balor and Charlotte will all have prominent roles, whether in singles matches or the Andre Battle Royal. Daniel Bryan vs The Miz in a retirement match for Bryan is a possibility. Wrestlers currently expected to finish up their in-ring careers at WM33: Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Big Show, Daniel Bryan, Bill Goldberg, Brock Lesnar (if he doesn't resign, his contract ends at WM33).

[Mr. Nerfect]

Something about it all doesn't seem right. I'm all for Kevin Owens dropping the Universal Title belt, but Braun Strowman in the title picture? Would he win the Royal Rumble to add some credibility to him? Is the idea to turn him into the biggest face in the company by beating Reigns? Sort of like an ironic James Ellsworth type, but with muscles?

There's a lot of McMahon involvement on this show. I'd be very happy if Shane, Stephanie and Triple H stayed right out of the ring for this WrestleMania. Shane was a stop-gap last year because everyone worth a shit was hurt. This year, as of this writing, they are not. Sure, let Shane have a moment on the show and perhaps tease dissension with a SmackDown heel, but there's no need to put him in the ring at this year's WrestleMania.

Truth be told, the only match on that card I really like is Brock vs. Goldberg, but I'd put Goldberg over. Everyone can see the Brock win coming, just like they could "see it" at Survivor Series. I don't ever want Brock to beat Goldie at this point. Especially since The Berg has said he would keep working for as long as Vince is willing to pay him, and he's able to Spear and Jackhammer dudes for a long time yet.

Oh, MAYBE Jericho vs. Owens too. Something about it seems...off though. I like it away from the RAW Title than for it, because something about Jericho, as good as he is, doesn't seem ripe for a World Title match at WrestleMania anymore. But still, I'd be happy if there was something else done with Jericho at WrestleMania.

[Evil Vito]

AJ Styles being relegated to the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal would be a fucking joke.

[Evil Vito]

Also I realllllllllllllllllllly hope they don't shoot their wad by turning Orton face again so soon. He's a billion times better as a heel and him as a Wyatt has been such a breath of fresh air for his character.

[The CyNick]

Outside of Brock vs Goldberg, I don't think anything is clear right now. Mania these days is focused on four or five key matches, the rest is filler to get guys on the show.

You have to think Cena plays a key role. They brought up the whole 16th title win, so this is a logical place to pull the trigger. Just a matter of whether it's against Styles or Taker.

Taker should be in a key match. I think Cena or Orton are the most probable opponents.

Braun vs Roman seems possible, but feels like it would have a similar build as Brock vs Goldberg.

I also feel like Miz vs Daniel Bryan is coming up for this show.

Then you need the girls to be involved in a key match. Charlotte vs Ronda would be amazing if they could pull it off, but my guess is that's a major longshot. Bayley doesn't have the stream I expected she would at this point. She's very blah. But I think she has to be in the title match against either a heel Banks or Charlotte. Lots of time to tell a compelling story though.

So I'm thinking:

Brock vs Goldberg
Styles vs Cena
Taker vs Orton
Miz vs Bryan
Charlotte vs Bayley vs Banks
Stroman vs Reigns

I think they should have Corbin program with Ambrose to set him up for a future title program with Cena.

[Evil Vito]

If the title programs end up being as rumored - I imagine Cena will be winning the Rumble, tying him with Austin en route to breaking Flair's record.

However I think it'd be oddly awesome for Strowman to win the whole thing. Not big on WWE going back to their last brand split habit of "guy wins the Rumble only to have a midcard World Title match" but a bona fide heel winning in Strowman would be interesting.

Yeah Triple H was a heel last year but he was getting face return pops and pops because he eliminated Reigns. And Reigns got booed despite the fact that he was meant to be face. Actually don't know what Strowman's reaction would be.

[Innovator]

Only things probably written in pen are Goldberg/Lesnar and Rollins/HHH

[Evil Vito]

Biker Taker vs. Rappin' John Cena ONLY!!!

[Emperor Smeat]

Rumored card looks decent but not interested at all for Reigns vs Strowman. Doubt the crowd is going to care either since it's probably going to be worse in quality than Triple H vs Reigns and Strowman's push afterwards is probably going to end up like almost every other monster heel after their first big loss.

Only real issue with the card is the amount of big stars supposedly retiring since the WWE doesn't have an equal amount of really big stars on the current roster that could sell a Mania on their own. They'd be left with just Cena and maybe Orton as people who could sell a Mania on their own since they've done a horrible job overall getting the next gen of mega stars ready to take over. Should have started it on Mania 30 but WWE pretty much undid all the work from that event with the past 2 Manias.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Am I the only one who thinks that this whole Miz/Bryan stuff is just going to lead to Bryan saying "We'll find out what a fighting champion you are at WrestleMania, when you defend the Intercontinental Championship against six of the most talented WWE Superstars alive today -- in a LADDER MATCH!"?

PHILLIPS: Oh my god, what a shocker!

MAURO: That's the match that ended Daniel Bryan's career!

JBL: It'll be action in Orlando.

DAVID OTUNGA: Look at that.

[Evil Vito]

Am I the only one who thinks that this whole Miz/Bryan stuff is just going to lead to Bryan saying "We'll find out what a fighting champion you are at WrestleMania, when you defend the Intercontinental Championship against six of the most talented WWE Superstars alive today -- in a LADDER MATCH!"?

PHILLIPS: Oh my god, what a shocker!

MAURO: That's the match that ended Daniel Bryan's career!

JBL: It'll be action in Orlando.

DAVID OTUNGA: Look at that.

Nope.

WWE Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match
Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane vs. Luke Harper vs. Sami Zayn vs. Zack Ryder vs. The Miz (C)

I could see the Intercontinental Title ladder match carrying on being an annual thing. Bryan's last big moment as a WWE wrestler occurred in this very match, and he hates Miz for being a "coward" so booking him in one of these matches again plays into the story. Bryan announces 5 former Intercontinental champions as Miz's challengers, and the final entrant is announced as Sami Zayn who winds up being acquired in a trade with Raw.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm glad that someone hasn't jumped over to the "Miz vs. Bryan is definitely happening" bandwagon.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Bryan wrestling Miz actually doesn't even make sense given the context of their heat. Miz rips on Bryan because he CAN'T wrestle. And that's why Bryan hates Miz -- be broke his body for the fans, while Miz is conservative and does whatever he can to get ahead. If Bryan is like "Lol, I can wrestle, fool" it makes Miz right about Bryan being a coward.

The crowd will cheer and then ultimately be disappointed by the final match when they realize that Daniel Bryan is putting over The Miz -- story be damned -- but there is something grammatically wrong about the match taking place. I guess you could get there in an "unsanctioned" way, with Brie begging Bryan not to put himself in the ring with Miz, but that changes the context of Bryan's complains about The Miz not throwing it all out there as a wrestler. Why would The Miz suddenly be considered dangerous instead of a coward? There's something tone-deaf about the entire thing.

[Evil Vito]

Lesions in his brain. Fuck no Bryan shouldn't be wrestling, even if he takes zero bumps.

[The CyNick]

Bryan wrestling Miz actually doesn't even make sense given the context of their heat. Miz rips on Bryan because he CAN'T wrestle. And that's why Bryan hates Miz -- be broke his body for the fans, while Miz is conservative and does whatever he can to get ahead. If Bryan is like "Lol, I can wrestle, fool" it makes Miz right about Bryan being a coward.

The crowd will cheer and then ultimately be disappointed by the final match when they realize that Daniel Bryan is putting over The Miz -- story be damned -- but there is something grammatically wrong about the match taking place. I guess you could get there in an "unsanctioned" way, with Brie begging Bryan not to put himself in the ring with Miz, but that changes the context of Bryan's complains about The Miz not throwing it all out there as a wrestler. Why would The Miz suddenly be considered dangerous instead of a coward? There's something tone-deaf about the entire thing.

Heel rips Babyface week after week for career being ended for working a fan friendly style

Babyface has enough and risks injury to fight the dastardly heel. Babyface has a pregnant wife that can beg him but to fight but he does anyway.

Heel wins in a physical encounter and either gains respect of face (maybe turns face) or heel cheats to win and rubs it in Babyface face for eternity.

Not hard to understand... For most people that is.

[The CyNick]

Rumored card looks decent but not interested at all for Reigns vs Strowman. Doubt the crowd is going to care either since it's probably going to be worse in quality than Triple H vs Reigns and Strowman's push afterwards is probably going to end up like almost every other monster heel after their first big loss.

Only real issue with the card is the amount of big stars supposedly retiring since the WWE doesn't have an equal amount of really big stars on the current roster that could sell a Mania on their own. They'd be left with just Cena and maybe Orton as people who could sell a Mania on their own since they've done a horrible job overall getting the next gen of mega stars ready to take over. Should have started it on Mania 30 but WWE pretty much undid all the work from that event with the past 2 Manias.

I would argue in Cena's run on top he's rarely had to carry a Mania. The only time I think he was the key focal point was 22 with HHH and the two fights with The Rock. Outside of that he's been in mostly random matches. I would say Taker has carried more Manias than John. I don't think Orton ever carried a Mania, maybe 25 with HHH. But that's debatable.

At this stage Mania is more about the time when the part time guys come back and interact with the day to day stars. That's why it'll be interesting to see if they keep putting Goldberg over Brock to create a new attraction.

[slik]

A location has not been set for WrestleMania 34, though Minneapolis and Lubbock are rumored to all be in the bidding process. WWE is keen to sign Brock Lesnar for another year as they would still like to have the big WrestleMania moment where Lesnar puts over Roman Reigns on the grand stage. There is early talk, with the number of older superstars potentially leaving after WrestleMania 33 in Orlando, that it will be more important than ever to utilize the drawing abilities of John Cena, HHH and Randy Orton. Nothing has been set in stone for any of the three but an early idea was tossed around of John Cena vs Shane McMahon as a future potential dream match. HHH and Randy Orton would likely become involved in feuds that culminated in the event as well.

- Ryan Clark, tpww.net

[Rammsteinmad]

Bryan wrestling Miz actually doesn't even make sense given the context of their heat. Miz rips on Bryan because he CAN'T wrestle. And that's why Bryan hates Miz -- be broke his body for the fans, while Miz is conservative and does whatever he can to get ahead. If Bryan is like "Lol, I can wrestle, fool" it makes Miz right about Bryan being a coward.

The crowd will cheer and then ultimately be disappointed by the final match when they realize that Daniel Bryan is putting over The Miz -- story be damned -- but there is something grammatically wrong about the match taking place. I guess you could get there in an "unsanctioned" way, with Brie begging Bryan not to put himself in the ring with Miz, but that changes the context of Bryan's complains about The Miz not throwing it all out there as a wrestler. Why would The Miz suddenly be considered dangerous instead of a coward? There's something tone-deaf about the entire thing.

You're overthinking it.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Think CyNick has it right with the Bryan angle. Also with Cena carrying. Though I would add 23 in there with Michaels as well, which I thought was his best mania showing to that point.

I'm on board with Bryan v Miz and Cena v Taker for the belt. I'd hope Styles is given something meaningful to do.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

And whoever said Goldberg should go over Brock is correct, assuming it's Goldberg's lead into taking over as the new special attraction and is replacing a departing Lesnar.

If Lesnar finally conquers Goldberg, I'd hope they use that to reposition Brock as the top guy, give him the belt again, and have him run thru everyone until he actually puts over a new guy to establish them.

[Emperor Smeat]

I would argue in Cena's run on top he's rarely had to carry a Mania. The only time I think he was the key focal point was 22 with HHH and the two fights with The Rock. Outside of that he's been in mostly random matches. I would say Taker has carried more Manias than John. I don't think Orton ever carried a Mania, maybe 25 with HHH. But that's debatable.

At this stage Mania is more about the time when the part time guys come back and interact with the day to day stars. That's why it'll be interesting to see if they keep putting Goldberg over Brock to create a new attraction.
Cena and Orton also had plenty of big name stars on the roster itself to carry a Mania before the WWE ever needed to worry about that or start dip more into part-timers because of the lack of new big stars.

The more they keep plugging in big part-timer stars to help sell a Mania, the more it become obvious at how bad the roster has become in terms of top star quality. Especially now that Cena and Orton are starting to move more into the part-timer territory.

Of the rumored card right now, only Reigns vs Strowman match has neither guy involved being a part-timer. Same in regards to the potential multiple main event matches.


A location has not been set for WrestleMania 34, though Minneapolis and Lubbock are rumored to all be in the bidding process. WWE is keen to sign Brock Lesnar for another year as they would still like to have the big WrestleMania moment where Lesnar puts over Roman Reigns on the grand stage. There is early talk, with the number of older superstars potentially leaving after WrestleMania 33 in Orlando, that it will be more important than ever to utilize the drawing abilities of John Cena, HHH and Randy Orton. Nothing has been set in stone for any of the three but an early idea was tossed around of John Cena vs Shane McMahon as a future potential dream match. HHH and Randy Orton would likely become involved in feuds that culminated in the event as well.

- Ryan Clark, tpww.net
Probably going to be Minny getting it or maybe Philly since they've been trying for the past couple of years. Don't really see the WWE going right back to Texas this soon considering they just had a Mania this year.

[The CyNick]

Think CyNick has it right with the Bryan angle. Also with Cena carrying. Though I would add 23 in there with Michaels as well, which I thought was his best mania showing to that point.

I'm on board with Bryan v Miz and Cena v Taker for the belt. I'd hope Styles is given something meaningful to do.

23 was sold on President Elect Trump's hair vs Vince's hair. Everything else was a distant second and interchangeable.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Besides Cena wrongly retaining @ WM 23, what was wrong with the actual match? Everything about it except the result lived up to the hype.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I think Cena winning was the right call. Michaels was the old guard, and while he was fucking stellar I'd have put over Cena every time.

The match itself though is exactly what you want in a mania main event. Two legitimate superstars who are full timers putting on a stellar match.

[DAMN iNATOR]

So you're saying Shawn screwed Shawn? :shifty:

[hb2k]

I would argue in Cena's run on top he's rarely had to carry a Mania. The only time I think he was the key focal point was 22 with HHH and the two fights with The Rock. Outside of that he's been in mostly random matches. I would say Taker has carried more Manias than John. I don't think Orton ever carried a Mania, maybe 25 with HHH. But that's debatable.

Interesting. Let's do a comparison for the fun of it...

Mania 13 - Taker carried it to the worst buyrate in Mania history - 1 to Taker, I guess.
Mania 20 - Taker's Deadman return played a part, but carrying would be excessive praise.
Mania 21 - Carried by HHH/Batista
Mania 22 - Carried by Cena/HHH, 1 to Cena
Mania 23 - I'd say they Taker and Cena carry equal weight to each other, both eclipsed by Trump.
Mania 24 - Carried by Floyd and Flair
Mania 25 - Carried by Orton/HHH (and not very far) - 1 to Orton
Mania 26 - Carried by Taker/Shawn 2, but again did a relatively disappointing number. 2 for Taker
Mania 27 - Carried by the Rock/Cena dynamic, 2 to Cena
Mania 28 - Rock/Cena, 3 to Cena
Mania 29 - Rock/Cena, 4 to Cena
Mania 30 - Authority Vs. Bryan, mostly HHH and Bryan with Orton and Big Dave as secondary players.
Mania 31 - Brock/Roman carried it.
Mania 32 - Taker/Shane - 3 for Taker

So in truth, we have 4 for Cena, 3 for Taker (one which did a mediocre number, one which did a flat out abysmal number, the other did well), 1 for Randy.

[Nicky Fives]

Did anyone really give a shit Floyd Mayweather was at 24? I certainly didn't....

[Evil Vito]

Feel like WrestleMania isn't really "carried" by anybody at this point. The name sells itself.

[Evil Vito]

You could announce a Bo Dallas vs. Curtis Axel WrestleMania main event a year in advance and people would still buy tickets to the show in droves.

[Big Vic]

HHH probably carried the most Manias.

[hb2k]

Did anyone really give a shit Floyd Mayweather was at 24? I certainly didn't....

Got the most outside press leading in by far

[Emperor Smeat]

I'd argue Taker played a big role helping carry Manias shortly after the WWE started hyping up his streak as a big deal about Mania. Some years his streak match was the big thing selling the event and other years it being right there with the other big match or star being focused on for the event.

Like Mania 30 is all about Bryan as the main focus but the streak match was also right up there for carrying the event.

[Rammsteinmad]

Remember that time when Snookie carried Wrestlemania! They should get her back again!

[hb2k]

I'd argue Taker played a big role helping carry Manias shortly after the WWE started hyping up his streak as a big deal about Mania. Some years his streak match was the big thing selling the event and other years it being right there with the other big match or star being focused on for the event.

Like Mania 30 is all about Bryan as the main focus but the streak match was also right up there for carrying the event.

See, I've always had this umming and ahhing about the impact of the streak, in that I'm not sure it ever proved to be a big deal outside of existing fans (until it ended). Mania 30 should have had a great build to Taker/Brock, but it really wasn't at all.

Taker's matches with Shawn and HHH for those four years added a big match backbone, no doubt, but the only time it was put in a position to truly be the big draw on the show, 26, did the lowest Mania numbers in seven years, and that pains me to say because that build-up was fucking outstanding.

[Droford]

You could announce a Bo Dallas vs. Curtis Axel WrestleMania main event a year in advance and people would still buy tickets to the show in droves.

Its a mild shame IRS vs Mr Pefect never happened at WM

[DAMN iNATOR]

See, I've always had this umming and ahhing about the impact of the streak, in that I'm not sure it ever proved to be a big deal outside of existing fans (until it ended). Mania 30 should have had a great build to Taker/Brock, but it really wasn't at all.

Taker's matches with Shawn and HHH for those four years added a big match backbone, no doubt, but the only time it was put in a position to truly be the big draw on the show, 26, did the lowest Mania numbers in seven years, and that pains me to say because that build-up was fucking outstanding.

Blame the numbers on the stupid Batista v. Cena freaking "Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, Start" Championship main event. Nobody wanted to see that.

[Funky Fly is back]

I wonder if John Cena will hit another AA - that's an attitude adjustment - On Big E again!


http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/finishers/cenaattitudeanimated.gif

[The CyNick]

Interesting. Let's do a comparison for the fun of it...

Mania 13 - Taker carried it to the worst buyrate in Mania history - 1 to Taker, I guess.
Mania 20 - Taker's Deadman return played a part, but carrying would be excessive praise.
Mania 21 - Carried by HHH/Batista
Mania 22 - Carried by Cena/HHH, 1 to Cena
Mania 23 - I'd say they Taker and Cena carry equal weight to each other, both eclipsed by Trump.
Mania 24 - Carried by Floyd and Flair
Mania 25 - Carried by Orton/HHH (and not very far) - 1 to Orton
Mania 26 - Carried by Taker/Shawn 2, but again did a relatively disappointing number. 2 for Taker
Mania 27 - Carried by the Rock/Cena dynamic, 2 to Cena
Mania 28 - Rock/Cena, 3 to Cena
Mania 29 - Rock/Cena, 4 to Cena
Mania 30 - Authority Vs. Bryan, mostly HHH and Bryan with Orton and Big Dave as secondary players.
Mania 31 - Brock/Roman carried it.
Mania 32 - Taker/Shane - 3 for Taker

So in truth, we have 4 for Cena, 3 for Taker (one which did a mediocre number, one which did a flat out abysmal number, the other did well), 1 for Randy.

I wasn't looking to go back to the Attitude Era, I was only talking about Manias during Cena's run. My point was Taker's matches and the The Streak played a bigger role than the majority of Cena's matches.

In reality, you take away the program with Rock which covered 3 straight Manias, Cena has never really been the focal point alone. Whereas with Taker every year there was interest in his opponent challenging The Streak. But to be fair to Cena, most of the recent Manias are sold on a handful of matches vs one super match. So nobody really is put in the position of selling the show on their own. I just think if you went year by year, Taker's matches on a whole had more interest.

[The CyNick]

Feel like WrestleMania isn't really "carried" by anybody at this point. The name sells itself.

This is very true

[Big Vic]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vipcaa.jpg

[The CyNick]

And whoever said Goldberg should go over Brock is correct, assuming it's Goldberg's lead into taking over as the new special attraction and is replacing a departing Lesnar.

If Lesnar finally conquers Goldberg, I'd hope they use that to reposition Brock as the top guy, give him the belt again, and have him run thru everyone until he actually puts over a new guy to establish them.

My assumption is Lesnar is not going to increase his workload, so it comes down to can you continue with him beating random guys on the big sis Or do you try to do something different with him?

If Goldberg is positioned as having Lesnar's number, you can get several years worth of big matches out of him. Part of the decision would come down to what's the variance between their pay? Is one far cheaper than the other?

The risk with Goldberg is how many big matches can you promote where he just kills guys before people reject the act? There are more Goldberg matches I can see being intriguing than Lesnar matches at this point. Plus, I could see Lesnar trying UFC again.

[The CyNick]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vipcaa.jpg

What that tells me it's President Elect Trump and Rock are major draws. Everyone else is the same range.

[Big Vic]

I wasn't making a statement just found it interesting.

[Big Vic]

Plus, I could see Lesnar trying UFC again.Well he just got a 1 year ban.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wasn't looking to go back to the Attitude Era, I was only talking about Manias during Cena's run. My point was Taker's matches and the The Streak played a bigger role than the majority of Cena's matches.

In reality, you take away the program with Rock which covered 3 straight Manias, Cena has never really been the focal point alone. Whereas with Taker every year there was interest in his opponent challenging The Streak. But to be fair to Cena, most of the recent Manias are sold on a handful of matches vs one super match. So nobody really is put in the position of selling the show on their own. I just think if you went year by year, Taker's matches on a whole had more interest.

But this would just be false. Cena hasn't been in the main event since WrestleMania XXIX when he was against Rock, but hb2k broke it down pretty obviously for you. If you want to credit Undertaker for carrying against Triple H, then you also have to give the nod to Cena for carrying against Rusev and Bray Wyatt as well.

"If you take away the Rock programs." That's like saying "If you take away Austin's WrestleMania programs with The Rock, he only really beat Shawn Michaels and had one great match with Bret Hart."

I'm also not sure the streak was entirely a good thing. I believe a lot of money was left on the table in order to preserve it and keep a worked streak looking impressive, often making sure that rising talent couldn't get a big win they needed in order to keep the wheel rolling. And it doesn't just extend to Undertaker. Generally guys take a dive at WrestleMania, and I can't help but feel there is something to do with win-loss records going on there, because there isn't an organic reason a guy like Mark Henry should beat Ryback at WrestleMania.

[Emperor Smeat]

See, I've always had this umming and ahhing about the impact of the streak, in that I'm not sure it ever proved to be a big deal outside of existing fans (until it ended). Mania 30 should have had a great build to Taker/Brock, but it really wasn't at all.

Taker's matches with Shawn and HHH for those four years added a big match backbone, no doubt, but the only time it was put in a position to truly be the big draw on the show, 26, did the lowest Mania numbers in seven years, and that pains me to say because that build-up was fucking outstanding.

In terms of sports outlets, ESPN and others usually talked about the streak match the most whenever they'd cover Mania. This was before the WWE started to pay to get more mainstream coverage.

Ever since the WWE started doing the multi-main events for Mania, feel like that is when its possible to talk more about multiple people and matches carrying a Mania regardless of their actual quality. You still have the big major match such as Mania 29 with Cena-Rock II but also the other main event matches bringing in a big chunks of interest as well.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

My assumption is Lesnar is not going to increase his workload, so it comes down to can you continue with him beating random guys on the big sis Or do you try to do something different with him?

If Goldberg is positioned as having Lesnar's number, you can get several years worth of big matches out of him. Part of the decision would come down to what's the variance between their pay? Is one far cheaper than the other?

The risk with Goldberg is how many big matches can you promote where he just kills guys before people reject the act? There are more Goldberg matches I can see being intriguing than Lesnar matches at this point. Plus, I could see Lesnar trying UFC again.

I'd imagine the pay is likely similar. Assuming as much, there's lots of matches on the Raw brand for Goldberg. Off the bat, you have Reigns, Owens, Rollins, Stroman, if he stays put, Jericho.

That's a decent list to run through over the course of a year to keep Goldberg busy. Also could build to him v Cena as an inter promotional draw going into next year.

I think Goldberg has more mileage than Lesnar at this point. Feel like Lesnar doesn't have much higher to go as he's pretty much run thru all of his would be interesting opponents.

[The CyNick]

Well he just got a 1 year ban.

It's retroactive to his last fight, no?

You know he's working with WWE till April at least. If he can fight again by August that lines up perfectly to get in a camp and fight.

[Mr. Nerfect]

In terms of sports outlets, ESPN and others usually talked about the streak match the most whenever they'd cover Mania. This was before the WWE started to pay to get more mainstream coverage.

Ever since the WWE started doing the multi-main events for Mania, feel like that is when its possible to talk more about multiple people and matches carrying a Mania regardless of their actual quality. You still have the big major match such as Mania 29 with Cena-Rock II but also the other main event matches bringing in a big chunks of interest as well.

So you can't attribute this to The Undertaker then? You can't with one breath say that The Undertaker has carried more WrestleMania events and then in another say that no one carries WrestleMania anymore. I mean, there is truth to the WWE trying to use the brand itself as a draw (and hence why wrestling is so cold and no one is really, truly over), but there often seems to be a double-standard when it comes to talking about The Undertaker and WrestleMania.

The Mania events he was put in the chief position to draw didn't do as well as Mania events where he wasn't the focus point. That's just the way history has played out. ESPN might have given the streak a lot of attention, but how much did that tangibly translate to? Wrestling fans that treated it like a sport went away a long time ago and never came back.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Would anyone after Austin Bret were the bigger draw over Taker Sid? Even though the matter main evented, it was clearly not the biggest match on the card.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Are those rose-colored glasses you're looking back with? The WWF still treated the title like a big thing back in the day. There was a reason Austin/Bret didn't headline. Also ask yourself whether or not Austin/Bret was supposed to be a bigger match than Taker/Sid, or whether that was just the case because Austin and Bret were just...better.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I think it was a bigger match because there was a story being built up there that started with them meeting up for Survivor Series, Austin screwing Bret out of the Rumble and the two finally having their blow off match at Mania.

Did Sid v Taker have any kind of build beyond just being the title match?

[The CyNick]

So you can't attribute this to The Undertaker then? You can't with one breath say that The Undertaker has carried more WrestleMania events and then in another say that no one carries WrestleMania anymore. I mean, there is truth to the WWE trying to use the brand itself as a draw (and hence why wrestling is so cold and no one is really, truly over), but there often seems to be a double-standard when it comes to talking about The Undertaker and WrestleMania.

The Mania events he was put in the chief position to draw didn't do as well as Mania events where he wasn't the focus point. That's just the way history has played out. ESPN might have given the streak a lot of attention, but how much did that tangibly translate to? Wrestling fans that treated it like a sport went away a long time ago and never came back.

Taker has been a key focal point in basically every Mania since 24. John has always been the top guys, but he's also been in a lot of throwaway matches. Rusev, Wyatt, some triple threats. Like I said, the only matches where Cena truly was the focal point of the show was with Rocky and maybe one with HHH. Whereas Takers steak was something that was a huge part of every Mania essentially from 24 on.

[Funky Fly is back]

The biggest star in WWE history is Roman Reigns, then John Cena. Then Umaga.

[slik]

The hint of Roman/Braun was dropped tonight on RAW. Braun will feud with Big Show while Roman finishes up feuding with KO. Braun might actually win the Royal Rumble.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Weirder things have happened. There's no way he headlines WrestleMania, but if the plan is to have John Cena challenge for the World Title, I can't see them having him also tie Austin's record of three Rumbles. That's just...too much at once for the WWE. It resembles too much of a clear direction. Strowman winning the Rumble and challenging for the mid-card World Title makes perfect WWE sense.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Except they don't have to really play up the Rumble thing. They can just have him win it. I'd hate for the Rumble to determine the winner of a secondary title match.

Stroman v Reigns will prob be a snore fest if they try to draw it out. If the plan is to push Stroman to the moon, having him dominate a 10-12 minute match makes more sense.

[Big Vic]

This match was talked about, so I will post this awesome promo

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/W_fyL328yoU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[owenbrown]

and this will be a must miss WM for me

[Evil Vito]

You'll watch it and you know it.

[Evil Vito]

The last few years Mania's been the one show that even lapsed fans I know will check it out "just to see if it's good again".

Feel like it's tough for people to be 100% done with wrestling forever.

[slik]

and this will be a must miss WM for me

owenbrown, Undertaker vs Cena is a big match, even if you hate Cena.

+

Seth/HHH
Jericho/KO will be really good
Dean/Shane might have some CRAZY bumps

[Evil Vito]

I hope they're at least wrong about Dean/Shane. I have zero desire whatsoever to see Shane McMahon wrestle again. For his own safety.

[The CyNick]

Except they don't have to really play up the Rumble thing. They can just have him win it. I'd hate for the Rumble to determine the winner of a secondary title match.

Stroman v Reigns will prob be a snore fest if they try to draw it out. If the plan is to push Stroman to the moon, having him dominate a 10-12 minute match makes more sense.

The title on RAW is the main title.

[The CyNick]

I hope they're at least wrong about Dean/Shane. I have zero desire whatsoever to see Shane McMahon wrestle again. For his own safety.

Would have to see the storyline, but right now it feels forced to put Shane in a match.

[Big Vic]

The title on RAW is the main title.The universal title is more prestigious than the WWE title? :lol::lol::lol:

[The CyNick]

The universal title is more prestigious than the WWE title? :lol::lol::lol:

Prestigious is a loaded term. AJ is walking around with the championship that goes back to the beginning of pro wrestling, or at least the beginning of WWE. But that's mark talk.

The RAW brand is the #1 brand, always has been, likely always will be. Make no mistake, internally the big title is the Universal Title because it's on RAW. They did the same thing back in the day. SD got the linear title but big gold belt was higher on the pecking order internally.

That said if John Cena is fighting Taker for the SD Title at Mania, I have no doubt it would go on last. But that's star driven, not title driven. If that makes sense.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0JTU6vXEAADTEW.jpg:large

[The CyNick]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0JTU6vXEAADTEW.jpg:large

Cena beating Taker to tie the record seems like a good move. Actually Taker defending the record would be kinda fun too. But Cena should win.

I can see how they get to AJ vs Shane. It's tough because SD doesn't have a ton of main event talent. AJ v Ambrose has been done a lot. So next option is Styles ends up in the IC title picture.

[owenbrown]

I'm sorry but Cena/Taker should NOT be for any championship. Even if they brought back the Hardcore title under 24/7 rules. Also, Roman Roids should not be after any World Title either. Unless they want 80,000 people throwing trash in the ring.

[The CyNick]

I'm sorry but Cena/Taker should NOT be for any championship. Even if they brought back the Hardcore title under 24/7 rules. Also, Roman Roids should not be after any World Title either. Unless they want 80,000 people throwing trash in the ring.

Don't worry ROH or some other Indy promotion will be holding matches that weekend that only 300 people care about. I'm sure all the right guys will be in the title matches there.

[Big Vic]

Shane needs to retire from wrestling

[Big Vic]

http://www.wrestlecrap.com/punchy4.gif

http://www.wrestlecrap.com/punchy2.gif

http://www.wrestlecrap.com/punchy6.gif

[Evil Vito]

I don't know if "Raw is more important than SmackDown" is as valid of a sentiment now that both shows are live. When SmackDown was taped and was saddled on Friday when barely anybody stayed in to watch wrestling...they made it abundantly clear which show they cared about more.

But now? I'm just not so sure. Raw has an extra hour and therefore a bigger roster yes, but in terms of guys you could believably plug into the main event on a dime it seems pretty even. That they gave Cena and Orton both to SmackDown was a clear indication to me that they wanted SmackDown to seem important.

[Evil Vito]

I think it'll be really telling if/when they do a draft lottery next year to shift up the rosters a bit. In the old brand split it was always: send SmackDown's red hot guys to Raw, send guys who have cooled off to SmackDown. Rinse, lather, repeat.

[Emperor Smeat]

Assuming its Styles vs Shane, Dean's probably a lock to be Bryan's personal pick to dethrone Miz's IC reign at Mania. WWE already started teasing it as a potential feud and dropped everything related to Shane wanting to punish Dean for his antics in the Ellsworth-Styles feud.

US belt gets to have the multi-man ladder match this year for Mania.

[Jordan]

So we are talking ...

Cena/Taker
Stroman/Roman
HHH/Rollins
Styles/Shane
Jericho/Owens
Something with Orton and Bray
Something with Ladders
Andre Battle Royal
Womens Match

[slik]

+

Dean/Miz
Big Show/Shaq

[Big Vic]

Baron Corbin was <s>probably</s> booked the best of all Andre the giant Battle Royal Winners for the remainder of the current year when they won.

[The CyNick]

I don't know if "Raw is more important than SmackDown" is as valid of a sentiment now that both shows are live. When SmackDown was taped and was saddled on Friday when barely anybody stayed in to watch wrestling...they made it abundantly clear which show they cared about more.

But now? I'm just not so sure. Raw has an extra hour and therefore a bigger roster yes, but in terms of guys you could believably plug into the main event on a dime it seems pretty even. That they gave Cena and Orton both to SmackDown was a clear indication to me that they wanted SmackDown to seem important.

They want SDL to be important, yes. But Cena is transitioning to a part timer at this point. SD is Ambrose's show and RAW is Reigns' show, that's how it's seen from a touring point of view. They did somewhat balance the rosters, but RAW will always be seen as the A show.

[The CyNick]

So we are talking ...

Cena/Taker
Stroman/Roman
HHH/Rollins
Styles/Shane
Jericho/Owens
Something with Orton and Bray
Something with Ladders
Andre Battle Royal
Womens Match

There are at least two women's matches currently scheduled.

[The CyNick]

+

Dean/Miz
Big Show/Shaq

And Goldberg v Lesnar on the kickoff?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Shane McMahon was largely put into his spot against The Undertaker because they needed band-aids because Cena, Orton and Rollins were out and Roman Reigns was flopping bad as "The Guy." You don't need Shane this year. You don't need Triple H. You don't need The Undertaker. All three will likely be promoted as bigger than the usual stars, but it would be nice if we got some proper stories and new stars being pushed this year. A completely naive proposition, I know.

* Styles vs. Cena for the WWE Title
* Owens vs. Rollins vs. Balor for the secondary title

Those matches appeal to me a lot more than any of the part-timers coming in. You've got Goldberg vs. Lesnar as your "special attraction." Pay that off with Goldberg going over thrice and call it a day. Realistically, you have to include Shane McMahon and Triple H though, so just let them fight each other in a McMahon Pride Street Fight. Daniel Bryan can be shown in clips "training" Shane. That way Triple H can get his spiritual win back against Daniel Bryan. Since you also have to include The Undertaker, my personal choice would still be to put him against Rusev and have Rusev go over to set him up as a main event hopeful, but if Taker wants to work Orton it really doesn't matter, and it gets Orton away from other stuff. He feels like a chore to fit sometimes. Wyatt & Harper can defend the Tag Titles against American Alpha or someone. The Miz can defend the IC Title in that giant Ladder Match that is becoming a tradition -- this is where you have Dean Ambrose, Dolph Ziggler, Kalisto, Apollo Crews, freshly traded Sami Zayn, Kane and, fuck, I dunno, Heath Slater? Is he still over? Nikki Bella wins the SD Women's Title from Alexa Bliss and then faces Charlotte in a Champion vs. Champion Match with Ronda Rousey as the special guest referee. Chris Jericho wins the US Title from Roman Reigns to complete his Grand Slam (the only meaningful title he hasn't won) and then puts him over at Mania. Everyone else goes into the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal because they aren't really over or important.

Final card:

* Styles vs. Cena for the World Title
* Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar III
* Owens vs. Rollins vs. Balor for the other belt
* The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton
* Triple H vs. Shane McMahon
* Champion vs. Champion: Charlotte vs. Nikki Bella with Ronda Rousey as referee
* The Wyatt Family vs. American Alpha for the Tag Titles
* Chris Jericho vs. Roman Reigns for the US Title
* Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal (featuring Big Show, Shaq, Cesaro, Sheamus, Braun, Corbin, The New Day, Enzo & Cass, the cruiserweights, Gallows & Anderson, James Ellsworth, Rhyno, The Hype Bros, etc.)
* The Miz vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kalisto vs. Apollo Crews vs. Sami Zayn vs. Heath Slater vs. Kane

[Jordan]

Having Lesnar, Shane, Taker, and Triple H on the card is taking away so many spots but lets be devils advocate and be honest, the guys who will wind up in the Battle Royal or Ladder Match because the part timers need one on one matches, well they are aren't as interesting for Wrestlemania as the part timers. And that's just a fact.

I'd rather see Goldberg, Triple H, or The Undertaker (you can keep Shane) than most of the up and commers on Raw or Smackdown.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The more I think about it, the more I'd be "at peace" with that card. Whilst I prefer the Rumble winner to headline, I can imagine the WWE counterbalancing the actual interest in Cena challenging Styles for #16 with Rollins winning the Rumble and challenging Owens, as I suggested earlier in the thread. It's not really a prediction so much as "compromised fantasy booking within a realistic scope." It's just annoying and 50/50 enough for the WWE to actually do it -- like putting the Women's Champions against each other or having Dolph challenge for the IC Title in another Ladder Match despite him previously being stated to be out of title opportunities).

* The Miz would probably retain the IC Title in order to drop it to Shinsuke Nakamura on the SmackDown After Mania, in a special title defense ordered by Daniel Bryan. Kalisto would do something spotty off the ladder and Heath Slater would probably be there to kill himself too, just to prove he is grateful for the spot. Kane's there to accumulate legacy points whilst Ziggler & Ambrose are thoroughly uninteresting but have to be part of the card somehow. They also "justify" the Ladder Match as being former World Champs.

* I'm not a big fan of Battle Royals, but at least the Andre Battle Royal provides the slot to kind of focus programs that aren't interesting enough for their own spots on the main card. Enzo & Cass can do some mic work on their way to ring, a few bigger guys can get shine, Kofi Kingston can do some funky avoiding elimination things, Sheamus & Cesaro can bicker as champs that sorta have each other's backs but can't both win, and Shaq can slam the now svelte Big Show. Braun can yell before a whole bunch of guys team to take him out as the predictable winner. It could be passable fun.

* Jericho has got a much better chance of making Roman Reigns look good than Braun Strowman does. I also think Jericho "deserves" a US Title run about as much as anybody. He can help generate interest in the belt and Roman would benefit from working with Jericho in an isolated little program. This would actually be a tremendous way to open the show.

* Alpha haven't really been working on the main stage, but I can't see the WWE giving up on them. They have an Olympian and a really good looking black guy with a motor. They're going to try and turn them into an act people can get behind. If The Undertaker works away from WrestleMania, I could see a six-man with him teaming up with Alpha to face The Wyatt Family. That could be the main event of the SmackDown After Mania or something. I could see them keeping the belts on The Family because I can see them wanting Orton to be in the match where they lose them and they'll probably realize that Bray hasn't won at a Mania, but it'd be a feel-good moment for Alpha if they did get the belts here. That being said, you're bound to get some wonky booking at Mania somewhere, and this can be where that happens. I can also see the rationale being that you need to have The Family strong in order to effectively back Orton later in the night against Taker.

* Charlotte will be at WrestleMania. Nikki Bella will be at WrestleMania. There might be more interesting/over acts in each division, but I can see Vince being somewhat "done" with Sasha Banks and cooled down on Bayley. Indeed, it seems Sasha has to be out of the title picture on RAW. Logistically, having two Women's Title matches could be "Um, WTF?" for a lot of people, and focusing them into this sort of situation kind of works in a streamlining sort of way. I imagine that you'll see other girls on the show somewhere -- whether it's Sasha in a segment with The Rock or Stephanie McMahon hogging the spotlight before someone comes out and starts something with her. Maybe there's a clusterfuck on the pre-show? They could all run out and get involved here in some sort face vs. heel stand-off where all their problems blow up in a physical altercation that Ronda has to break up. Whatever the case, I think having your top star heel go against your top star face is the best decision, and that just happens to be Charlotte vs. Nikki Bella -- at least in the company's eyes.

* Triple H vs. Shane McMahon would happen if they wanted to do it. For some reason, I can see their egos not wanting to get involved with each other, but Orlando is the place for Triple H to do it, because he's got a better chance of being "NXT God" Triple H there and out-popping Shane. I can imagine that their kids would love to see the match and Vince would love it too. It's that McMahon drama bullshit stuff that they think USA Network still likes. If it's contained to limited segments, it has a very WWE place. This is also a match that Triple H should win, which I can imagine him liking.

* Taker vs. Orton would be fine. It is what it is. At least if Orton wins he can pass some of that prestige onto The Wyatt Family.

* I'd like Owens vs. Rollins vs. Balor to be called by Tom Phillips and Corey Graves, on account that they are former NXT Champions fighting over a new belt. It can be used to segue onto the "New Voices of RAW" and Michael Cole can move into other roles and still do his interviews. Gallows & Anderson helping Finn Balor win the belt was my initial feeling, but I can see them wanting to try babyface Balor a bit longer and then go the The Balor Club if he starts to flop. I suppose they could always just put the belt on the face that is more over by this point. We've seen Seth Rollins choke enough just to get back up as it is. Once more surely won't convince the WWE to stop trying.

* Goldberg Spears and Jackhammers Lesnar even though Brock's had his Weet-Bix. Everyone would be expecting another Brock blow-out but Goldberg shocks the world again. Brock re-ups with the WWE for an even more reduced schedule and even more money.

* I'd like to see a double-turn in the main event with Cena turning heel when Gallows & Anderson help him win the belt to become the Cenation, but that isn't happening. I'd also like to see Styles force Cena to submit to prove that he is the new franchise player in WWE. I imagine we'll just get Cena winning #16 to close the show however. Maybe we get a Samoa Joe confrontation to end the show and get some buzz going? Just kidding.

[Mr. Nerfect]

In the WWE's defense, you don't want to jam too many people through the door either. WrestleMania XXX was really magical to me, because it looked like we were getting Daniel Bryan, Bray Wyatt, Cesaro and The Shield -- which was a digestible number, until they fucked it. If they just slipped a through guys through, it would be nice. You can give them more focus and make sure they actually get to that star level. Less is more and what have you.

[owenbrown]

ugh why does anyone want Cena & Reigns anywhere near world titles at this point? That's basically alienating your audience. This is turning into Nitro/WCW PPV endings at this rate with trash being thrown in the ring.

[Evil Vito]

Cena is nowhere near as hated in the internet community nowadays. He's excellent.

[The CyNick]

ugh why does anyone want Cena & Reigns anywhere near world titles at this point? That's basically alienating your audience. This is turning into Nitro/WCW PPV endings at this rate with trash being thrown in the ring.

Because those are the top two guys in the territory.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Cena is their biggest name and he's been reinvigorated since the move to the midcard and the US title run. He belongs and deserves a big role in possibly his last big time mania main event.

[The CyNick]

Cena is their biggest name and he's been reinvigorated since the move to the midcard and the US title run. He belongs and deserves a big role in possibly his last big time mania main event.

Won't be his last time. Even if more things in Hollywood work out the way he hopes, he'll be still headlining Manias to come.

[XL]

Ooooooooo. Nobody considered a Ladder Match for the Cruisers. Could be interesting. Nothing on there for Styles or Reigns though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cena hasn't been the World Champion for over two years now. He's gaining more and more ground in Hollywood. I think he'd be a good choice for your main event, especially given the absence of other stars.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley Martinez is apparently the rumored RAW Women's Title match. I don't know how they pad it out until then. Sasha Banks is apparently scheduled to have a big match at the show too. I think this card is going to be too long, and as a result the benefits of getting time to shine will be diluted and distributed too far.

* Charlotte vs. Nikki Bella

* Sasha, Bayley & Becky vs. Nattie, Alexa & Carmella on the Kickoff or something. Nia Jax attacks the babyfaces after winning to "make a statement."

[Evil Vito]

Let's try this again. Card is probably still going to be too long but whatever. I'm listing the SmackDown matches first but aside from the main event this isn't reflective of match order.

WWE Championship
John Cena vs. The Undertaker (C)

I'm sticking with my guns on this one, because I'm certain it's the match they want to do - and I just can't see them not having a moment like Cena passing Flair not being at Mania. So that just leaves figuring out how to get to this match. I'm thinking Styles will refuse to give Cena a title match because he's already beaten him, which leads to a surprise Taker return and AJ having to face him instead. Taker wins the belt at the Rumble in Texas. Do they want Cena to win the Rumble or is that overkill? Let's say Cena comes up just short but then earns #1 contendership in the Elimination Chamber instead.

LOLTNA Match
AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe

This is another one I'm sticking with from my last card but admittedly it's out of hope that they don't do AJ Styles vs. Shane McMahon or haphazardly toss AJ into the IC Title match. Joe debuts in the Rumble and ends up being part of the SmackDown brand. Maybe these two have a run-in backstage and AJ ends up screwing Joe out of his Elimination Chamber qualifying match? At least it plants the seeds for something. You could easily put the winner of this match against Cena in the title match at the next SmackDown PPV.

7-Man Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match
Apollo Crews vs. Baron Corbin vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane vs. Sami Zayn vs. vs. The Miz (C)

My initial plans for this was to have all former IC Champions plus Sami (who I can still see being acquired in a trade after Braun Strowman kills him on an episode of Raw), but with Luke Harper now a tag champion and Zack Ryder injured I'm putting in Crews and Corbin to fill out the field. Still not at all convinced that Daniel Bryan is wrestling, but I could totally see him booking this match to try to screw with Miz.

SmackDown Women's Championship
Nikki Bella vs. Becky Lynch (C)

I still think this is their planned SmackDown women's match despite neither being the champion right now. If Raw can hot potato their Women's belt, so can SmackDown. Becky takes the strap off of Alexa soon enough and Nikki ends up getting her "WrestleMania moment".

SmackDown Tag Team Championship
The New Day vs. The Wyatt Family (C)

I thought they'd rush through Orton leaving the Wyatt Family, but in his recent interview he gushed about how much he's enjoying it. So I'm going to be optimistic and say they roll with it for a while. I would've gone with American Alpha/Wyatt Family but now it seems they're going to need to go to that program already. Maybe The New Day do something to piss off Stephanie again, hence they get traded? This could hypothetically even be a six-man tag.

Universal Championship
Braun Strowman vs. Roman Reigns (C)

If Cena isn't winning the Rumble, then that means I'm predicting Braun Strowman will. I could actually see WWE doing it as a shock. Cena and Braun as the final two, everybody expects Cena to overcome the odds. Picks Braun up for an AA over the top but Braun slides off and just chucks Cena out. I think it would actually take the crowd off guard because everybody is used to Cena conquering the monster. I imagine Braun would take his first clean pin here but who knows.

The Beast vs. The Berg: Part 3
Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg

We already know this one is happening.

Battle of the Pedigree
Seth Rollins vs. Triple H

Ditto.

United States Championship
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho (C)

A few weeks ago they talked up the US Title being the one title Jericho hasn't held yet. I could see him getting another shot and winning it during this Reigns/Owens feud, although that's mostly to avoid Reigns having both belts as he'd probably never defend the US Title otherwise. I do hope Jericho sticks around long enough to have a proper end to the Owens storyline.

Raw Women's Championship Triple Threat Match
Bayley vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte (C)

Much like I have Ziggler getting another IC Title opportunity, I don't think they'll pass up the chance to get Sasha added to this match even after it was meant to be over between her and Charlotte. Plus, making a triple threat means Bayley can get her first title win in a big spot while Charlotte also keeps her one-on-one PPV streak alive, which seems to be a critical issue for WWE.

Raw Tag Team Championships
American Alpha vs. Sheamus & Cesaro (C)

Well, I had The New Day getting traded - so somebody has to go to Raw in return. And really, once they do Alpha/Wyatts, what else is there for them to do on the blue brand? This would be a fun match, and hopefully The Revival could join the party after Mania and we'd get some killer matches between these three teams.

6-Man Tag Team Match
Shaquille O'Neal, Enzo Amore, and Big Cass vs. Big Show, Luke Gallows, and Karl Anderson

In my last card I had New Day in for Enzo and Cass, but since they're on SmackDown now I needed to change this up. This could very well end up being a one on one match but I think they could add other people so Show would have someone to promo with when Shaq's not there. It could also set up Cass going over Show during the build or the next night on Raw when Show formally retires. He strikes me as someone who would want to put over a young guy on the way out.

Cruiserweight Championship
Kalisto vs. Neville (C)

That Kalisto for Zayn trade makes too much sense to not happen, dammit! But yeah, if you're doing it you may as well get Kalisto right in the title picture. This would almost certainly be one of the pre-show matches but they could get the crowd going.

4th Annual Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal
Aiden English, Curt Hawkins, Fandango, Heath Slater, Jack Swagger, James Ellsworth, Jey Uso, Jimmy Uso, Konnor, Mojo Rawley, Rhyno, Simon Gotch, Tyler Breeze, Viktor, Bo Dallas, Curtis Axel, Darren Young, Epico, Finn Balor, Goldust, Jinder Mahal, Mark Henry, Primo, R-Truth, Rusev, Sin Cara, Titus O'Neil

You can give 3 more spots to cruiserweights or whoever to make it an even 30 if you want. Hell if you add the entire cruiserweight division it would break the previous record for largest battle royal ever. But anyway, the name that stands out like a sore thumb is Finn Balor. I'd have him be one of the surprise guys that gets his own entrance like DDP and Shaq last year. I wouldn't announce him in advance because otherwise it'd just stand out that they found nothing for him to do. He gets the win in a good return moment and then can try to get the Universal Title match at the next show.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Not a bad card at all. Replace Samoa Joe with Shane McMahon and I think you have something pretty realistic. :p

I actually like the trade of American Alpha and The New Day. I'm not totally sold on The Wyatt Family vs. The New Day as a feud/tag team program, but I like Alpha on RAW.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Let's say Shawn Michaels is willing to come back for a bit of a run to give 2017 a good rub at the start. Would it be too insane to have HBK return, win the 2017 Royal Rumble and challenge AJ Styles for the Real World Championship at Mania? Styles could be a really jerk heel and Michaels can be the legend looking for one last drink from the fountain of youth. If you absolutely have to do Taker vs. Cena, you can have Taker cost Cena the Royal Rumble as a "I choose you as my opponent" deal.

[Evil Vito]

I actually like the trade of American Alpha and The New Day. I'm not totally sold on The Wyatt Family vs. The New Day as a feud/tag team program, but I like Alpha on RAW.

There's actually some semblance of a building block there as they feuded before the split and had a pretty fun match at Battleground. And that was the Strowan/Rowan version of the Family.

The only problem with this scenario is SmackDown would still only be left with one face tag team unless they decide to hold off on splitting Slater and Rhyno. Daniel Bryan being the one to sign DIY to the main roster would make a lot of sense and they'll probably drop the belts to Sanity that weekend, but I don't know how long they'll be needed in NXT beyond that.

[Evil Vito]

Let's say Shawn Michaels is willing to come back for a bit of a run to give 2017 a good rub at the start. Would it be too insane to have HBK return, win the 2017 Royal Rumble and challenge AJ Styles for the Real World Championship at Mania? Styles could be a really jerk heel and Michaels can be the legend looking for one last drink from the fountain of youth. If you absolutely have to do Taker vs. Cena, you can have Taker cost Cena the Royal Rumble as a "I choose you as my opponent" deal.

I would cum buckets for HBK/Styles.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

If they give Styles Taker because he refuses Cena, can we please have him pleading "I pick Cena! I pick Cena!" into the microphone or after Taker comes out and grabs his throat before eating a chokeslam?

[Mr. Nerfect]

There's actually some semblance of a building block there as they feuded before the split and had a pretty fun match at Battleground. And that was the Strowan/Rowan version of the Family.

The only problem with this scenario is SmackDown would still only be left with one face tag team unless they decide to hold off on splitting Slater and Rhyno. Daniel Bryan being the one to sign DIY to the main roster would make a lot of sense and they'll probably drop the belts to Sanity that weekend, but I don't know how long they'll be needed in NXT beyond that.

Yeah, it led to that awful compound segment. That's a large part of why I would be hesitant to put them in a program against each other. Right now I still like Big E winning the Andre Battle Royal and Kofi and Woods riding on his coattails.

They could always turn The Fashion Police babyface. They are funny enough to get over. Breeze is sympathetic and could take a beating fairly well. They could also move The Shining Stars over and have them turn face. There are options there. I'm kind of sick of Enzo & Cass on RAW, so they could jump over too.

That being said, I think people overstate the need for depth in tag team divisions in WWE. You realistically only need to be building up three teams at a time with some entertaining side attractions in the division to keep them heated. On SmackDown, if you've got The Wyatt Family and Alpha as your main teams (for example), you don't really need too much else as long as you've got a few teams to feed to each side and more coming through the pipeline.

[Evil Vito]

I continue to be strangely intrigued by the idea of The Ascension having a short-term feud with the Wyatts. Wouldn't even have to formally turn them or anything. They made Konnor actually look credible in the tag team battle royal last week. The promos would be weird as fuck.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's not the worst idea in the world. Not that they have been completely burnt to the ground, Vince can re-build them as he sees fit. Viktor is a good worker and Konnor finds ways to get himself strangely over. I find them pretty boring as a team, but I hate most things these days.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They're so far removed from their disappointing main roster debut that you can almost forget about it and just randomly make them credible again.

[Jordan]

Just remember that we only get 8-9 matches usually. Going over 10 is probably unrealistic. Folks keep clamouring for a Joe call up and spot on the card but I don't see them giving him a spot over someone already called up. I also don't really think Shaq/Show is a lock just because Show said it was like a year ago.

Undertaker/Cena
Roman/Stroman
Lesnar/Goldberg
Styles/Shane
Rollins/Triple H
Jericho/Owens
Orton/Wyatt
Andre The Giant Battle Royal
IC Title Ladder Match (8 man?)
Sasha/Charlotte/Bailey (maybe???)
Lynch/Bella (maybe???)

That is 11 matches and I don't even think they will go that high, for the main card. I am not sold that Owens and Jericho will get a one on one. I also didn't even include a tag title match which isn't going to happen, so ... I dunno. Maybe they will do 12/13 matches I just don't see it.

[Big Vic]

Here are my picks

WWE Championship match
Universal title Championship match
Raw Tag Championship match
SDL Tag Championship match
US Title Championship match
IC Title Championship match
Raw Womens Championship match
SDL Womens Championship match
Cruiserweight Championship match
UK Title Championship match
Pre-Show Andre the Giant Battle Royal.

[#1-norm-fan]

Everyone gets in a title match. Participation titles for the losers. Prestige-a-plenty.

[slik]

Just remember that we only get 8-9 matches usually. Going over 10 is probably unrealistic.

But the show is also now four hours long with a two hour preshow...so 15-17 matches is actually pretty plausible.

[slik]

This is what I think we're getting:


WrestleMania 33:


Title VS Career
Undertaker (c) vs. John Cena


Universal Title
Roman Reigns (c) vs. Braun Strowman


Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg


Seth Rollins vs. HHH


Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho


Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt


RAW Woman's Title:
Charlotte (c) vs. Bayley vs. Sasha Banks


Cruiserweight Title Ladder Match w/ multiple wrestlers
Rich Swann, TJ Perkins, Daivari, Jack Gallagher, Neville, The Brian Kendrick, Noam Dar, etc.


Big Show/The Club vs. Shaq/The New Day


Shane McMahon vs. Baron Corbin


AJ Styles vs. Finn Balor


Dean Ambrose vs. The Miz


The Rock appears


Hall of Fame inductees make an appearance


Pre-Show:

Andre The Giant Battle Royal
Dolph Ziggler, Samoa Joe, Luke Harper, Big Cass, Enzo, James Ellsworth, Sami Zayn, Rusev, Mark Henry, Heath Slater, Rhyno, KANE, Goldust, etc.


SmackDownLIVE Woman's Title
Alexa Bliss (c) vs. Becky Lynch vs. Nikki Bella


RAW Tag Titles
Sheamus/Cesaro vs. The Revival


Fabulous Moolah Battle Royal
Nia Jax, Natalya, Carmella, Lana, Naomi, Mickie James, Dana Brooke, etc.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

But the show is also now four hours long with a two hour preshow...so 15-17 matches is actually pretty plausible.

Nah, because an hour will be taken up with music, celebrity entrances and those cheerleaders.

[Emperor Smeat]

Just remember that we only get 8-9 matches usually. Going over 10 is probably unrealistic. Folks keep clamouring for a Joe call up and spot on the card but I don't see them giving him a spot over someone already called up. I also don't really think Shaq/Show is a lock just because Show said it was like a year ago.

Undertaker/Cena
Roman/Stroman
Lesnar/Goldberg
Styles/Shane
Rollins/Triple H
Jericho/Owens
Orton/Wyatt
Andre The Giant Battle Royal
IC Title Ladder Match (8 man?)
Sasha/Charlotte/Bailey (maybe???)
Lynch/Bella (maybe???)

That is 11 matches and I don't even think they will go that high, for the main card. I am not sold that Owens and Jericho will get a one on one. I also didn't even include a tag title match which isn't going to happen, so ... I dunno. Maybe they will do 12/13 matches I just don't see it.

This year's Mania had 12 matches and now with more titles and a bigger roster (baring a Papa Shango Curse rampage), WWE could easily go it over by 2-3 matches.

All depends on how they handle the pre-show and how many of the big matches hog the 4 hour event.

[Sepholio]

I'm just going to say it. If Braun vs reigns and Cena vs taker are for the titles of their respective shows then this will by far be the worst Wm of all time. Making taker champion ever again destroys the credibility of said title and whoever he beats for it.

[Simple Fan]

Let's say Shawn Michaels is willing to come back for a bit of a run to give 2017 a good rub at the start. Would it be too insane to have HBK return, win the 2017 Royal Rumble and challenge AJ Styles for the Real World Championship at Mania? Styles could be a really jerk heel and Michaels can be the legend looking for one last drink from the fountain of youth. If you absolutely have to do Taker vs. Cena, you can have Taker cost Cena the Royal Rumble as a "I choose you as my opponent" deal.

I'd like to see Styles vs HBK at the Rumble. Styles could play up how no one left on Smack down can beat him and then HBK challenges him at the Rumble. I still think the money is in Styles vs Cena at Mania. Styles refuses to give Cena a shot because he's already.beat up John Cena enough. Cena then wins the Rumble and challenges Styles at Mania to the Flair. Don't care one bit about Taker vs Cena. Would be some rushed story they would try to squeeze in after the Rumble that I have no interest in.

[Sepholio]

I don't mind a taker cena match. Just not for the title.

[owenbrown]

Reigns should never be near a world title ever again

[Big Vic]

What about a universal title?

[owenbrown]

That one too

[Rebecca Reigns]

The Roman Empire will defeat whoever it faces at WrestleMania! :kiss:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd like to see Styles vs HBK at the Rumble. Styles could play up how no one left on Smack down can beat him and then HBK challenges him at the Rumble. I still think the money is in Styles vs Cena at Mania. Styles refuses to give Cena a shot because he's already.beat up John Cena enough. Cena then wins the Rumble and challenges Styles at Mania to the Flair. Don't care one bit about Taker vs Cena. Would be some rushed story they would try to squeeze in after the Rumble that I have no interest in.

I'd take the match wherever I could get it, but if they have HBK for the Rumble, I don't see why they couldn't get him for Mania too. I think we're building towards Styles vs. Ziggler vs. Corbin for the belt at the Rumble.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

If they're gonna do Style v HBK, why not do it at Mania? Give Styles the big match he deserves.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, that's it. Have HBK win the Rumble and build to this awesome showdown.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I dunno. I still like the idea of Taker putting Cena over for the title.

HBK and Styles doesn't need the title.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cena and Taker don't need the title. It's a moot point. Styles currently has the belt, so is it worth putting Taker over him at this point in each man's career? Probably not. Styles could use a win over Taker more than Cena could, frankly.

[mike adamle]

Styles could use a win over Taker more than Cena could, frankly.

You'll have to settle for a victory over Kane on the SmackDown! leading to the 'taker match.

[mike adamle]

I was very hopeful when Brock ended the streak. He was the right person at that time. But what they did with it was atrocious. They could've accomplished the same thing having Taker win and Brock manhandle him after the match during his yearly posedown. Cena-Taker would be insane if the streak were still alive.

[Simple Fan]

I just feel like Styles/HBK would be a great match for the Rumble to build Styles up more for Mania. Styles would be real cocky coming off a win over HBK and then be real pissed when Cena wins the Rumble and gets his title shot. HBK could stick around for Mania as well. Ziegler could finally turn heel and have HBK/Ziggler at Mania.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I hear what you're saying, but the downside is that you're not going to top Styles/HBK. You should probably build to your biggest and best.

[Jordan]

Shawn is not coming back, that's just a dream.

[Jordan]

I don't know why you guys feel like everyone deserves to be on WM, it's the superbowl, only the champs get in.

[Sepholio]

Mr X reading my mind there. Styles/HBK would have been incredible 5-8 years ago. But I really don't think hbk has enough left in the tank to work at the level those 2 should work at. It would still be a good match....but it wouldn't be the fantasy we all have imagined. That ship has unfortunately sailed.

The only way I see HBK ever being in the ring again is 1v1 vs hunter for his retirement match.

[Sepholio]

I don't know why you guys feel like everyone deserves to be on WM, it's the superbowl, only the champs get in.

They should bring back starcade as the December ppv and use that one to trot out all the big names and legends for gimmick matches every year. Would be a good end cap to the season.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know why you guys feel like everyone deserves to be on WM, it's the superbowl, only the champs get in.

I would rather they kept things tighter -- I would absolutely prefer the WWE to have WrestleMania be a show where stars are made, but they have made it that show that everybody is part of.

I'm not the biggest fan of Battle Royals, but given what they are doing with Braun Strowman and that they do have the idea of pushing Baron Corbin, Sheamus & Cesaro are doing their thing and they have two sets of Tag Champs, Big Show and Mark Henry still haven't formerly retired, and they have such a bloated roster of jobbers -- I don't mind the Andre Battle Royal coming back for its fourth year.

They throw shit at the wall with the Intercontinental Title match. I'd love it if there were a proper feud build-up for the belt, but it seems fitting to have Bryan put Miz into that Ladder Match scenario. Come WrestleMania 33, I'd be very happy if both concepts were scrapped though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Are we entirely sure that we're getting Brock vs. Berg at WrestleMania? I could see the WWE doing something where Brock is eliminated from the Royal Rumble and the following week trashes ringside (like when he killed Michael Cole), only for his WrestleMania opponent to confront him. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Brock Lesnar vs. Shane McMahon was still on the cards.

Is there any other opponent for Goldberg at Mania? I'd actually like to see him squash The Miz, since Miz is about the only guy trying to be a heel and won't exactly be destroyed by it because he is a mid-card worm. I think they'll go the IC Title Ladder Match, but Goldberg winning the IC Title wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

What about Goldberg/Strowman? Not a big fan of Strowman, but people seem to think he is being booked well. Is there anything in a clash between those two at the big stage?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Here is a revised "Fuck it, they'll probably actually do Triple H vs. Rollins and Cena vs. Undertaker card":

WWE World Championship
AJ Styles (c) vs. Goldberg

-I'm also working under the assumption that Vince McMahon decides to keep Goldberg and Lesnar separate in order to have two special attractions that are larger than his roster. I can see Brock getting eliminated by Goldberg (he's still the only guy that can beat him) and then having a temper tantrum the next night on RAW when he finds out that Goldberg is using the Rumble shot to jump over to SmackDown to work for the bosses he actually likes. Styles plays the chicken-shit well and the presumption is that Goldberg is going to Styles his own personal James Ellsworth.

Yes, This Happens
Brock Lesnar vs. Shane McMahon

-Shane is treated like a star by the WWE. He is good at getting his ass kicked and Brock is good at kicking ass. This is rehab for the Goldberg losses. You couldn't exactly have Brock beat Goldberg and then pretend to be challenged by Shane. The Goldberg frustrations lend Brock/Shane more parity.

The Franchise vs. The Phenom
John Cena vs. The Undertaker

-I'm not stoked about this, but I can see Vince being stubborn about it.

Ugh
Triple H vs. Seth Rollins

-This happens and Seth is booked down to Triple H's level. The crowd will at least pop for Triple H getting beaten by his own move, but it's possible that Triple H gets out of that and there is some murky ending with Shawn Michaels or The Rock getting involved and helping Rollins win with something else. Maybe that superkick to a kneeling opponent comes back?

Not Entirely Sure This Happens, but Let's Prepare for the Worst Match
Big Show vs. Shaq

-Hopefully Shaq has secretly been training for years and this is better than expectations would allow.

Universal Title
Kevin Owens (c) vs. Finn Balor

-This gets planted firmly in the mid-card, although Michael Cole drills in that this is a World Title match representative of the New Era. Owens thinks he is getting a night off as all his enemies end up with opponents and Finn Balor returns as The Demon King to claim the prize he never lost. Owens is terrified because Balor is the guy who beat him for the NXT Championship.

SmackDown Tag Team Championship
The Wyatt Family (c) vs. American Alpha

-I can still see this match happening, and this being the final moment where Orton turns on Wyatt & Harper. I imagine that Orton & Harper will be the team that end up losing the belts, so Wyatt doesn't need to take another dive at WrestleMania here, although he will probably end up eating an RKO.

RAW Women's Championship
Charlotte (c) vs. Bayley vs. Spider Lady (Sasha Banks under a mask)

-Charlotte continues on as Women's Champion (maybe trading it with Bayley a few times) before Ric Flair introduces us to wrestling legend "The Spider Lady." Bayley still has bad blood with Charlotte. It's obvious to the fans who Spider Lady is and Charlotte complains, but Mick Foley grants Spider Lady a WrestleMania title shot against Charlotte just like Bayley -- and the two faces vow that Charlotte isn't walking out champion. Dana Brooke is counteracted by Nia Jax who shows up and is suddenly a babyface because she's The Rock's cousin and isn't like most girls.

SmackDown Women's Championship
Special Guest Referee: Alexa Bliss
Becky Lynch (c) vs. Nikki Bella

-Becky wins back the Women's Title from Bliss, who just got a run because she is hot and they want to earmark her as a future star. Nikki Bella gets her comeback story and Lynch and Bella are all friends, but then Alexa Bliss, wearing a skimpy referee's uniform because Women's Revolution comes out and says that the fate of the SmackDown Women's Revolution will be in her hands. Nikki and Becky both act like they want her to call it down the middle for the sake of the title, but Bliss starts stirring shit implying that they have both come to her and begged for favors.

United States Championship
Chris Jericho (c) vs. Roman Reigns

-I seriously think this could happen. Jericho is one of the best wrestlers in the company and Reigns is going to get a big singles match so why not give it the best chance it can have of being entertaining. Jericho helps Owens retain the RAW Title at the Rumble and Owens pays Jericho back by helping him win the US Title. Jericho works really hard to make this a fun affair.

RAW Tag Team Championship
Sheamus & Cesaro vs. The New Day vs. Gallows & Anderson vs. Enzo & Cass

-It's the yearly tradition of four teams fighting it out in a clusterfuck. They don't usually swap the belts in these things, so Cesaro & Sheamus probably retain.

David vs. Goliath
Sami Zayn vs. Braun Strowman

-If they drag this out for this long, kudos to them, frankly. It'll probably actually be a hot little affair. Strowman wins because he's big.

Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Championship
The Miz (c) vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Baron Corbin vs. Kane vs. Kalisto vs. Apollo Crews

-The match that ended Daniel Bryan's career and the ultimate test to prove that The Miz is a true fighting Intercontinental Champion. The Miz makes Daniel Bryan vow that if he wins, this all ends and Daniel Bryan admits that The Miz is a wonderful Intercontinental Champion and has to kiss his ring or something.

Cruiserweight Championship
Neville (c) vs. Kota Ibushi

-Neville wins the CW Title from Swann because Vince gets bored of him and tears through all the babyfaces, necessitating the living legend coming with enough money offered to get him to agree to something resembling enough of a contract for Vince to allow this.

The only person left off this card is Rusev. You can always throw him into the Ladder Match and say his RAW contract expired, stick him in The Rock segment where he gets beaten up or have a Battle Royal on the Kickoff show (probably still dedicated to Andre) where he wins by beating up a lot of cruiserweights, jobbers, etc.

[Mr. Nerfect]

* Styles vs. Goldberg for the World Title
* Cena vs. Taker
* Brock vs. Shane
* Triple H vs. Rollins
* Big Show vs. Shaq
* The Wyatt Family vs. Alpha for the SmackDown Tag Titles
* Charlotte vs. Bayley vs. Sasha for the Women's Title
* Becky vs. Nikki with Alexa Bliss there for the SmackDown Women's Title
* Jericho vs. Reigns for the US Title
* Cesaro & Sheamus vs. New Day vs. Enzo & Cass vs. Gallows & Anderson for the RAW Tag Titles
* Zayn vs. Braun
* Miz vs. Ambrose vs. Dolph vs. Corbin vs. Kane vs. Kalisto vs. Crews in a Ladder Match for the IC Title
* Neville vs. Ibushi for the CW Title

Maybe on the pre-show:

* Rusev maybe wins a Battle Royal
* All the other ladies fight for future title shot at their brand's belt

That's a 13 match main card if it all stays on there, but the WWE won't care because they think more is better.

[Evil Vito]

I've always been a fan of battle royals anyway, but I've loved the concept of the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal. They used to always do a special DVD bonus battle royal or lumberjack match anyway to get everyone on the show anyway...and I like that they did that.

Not everybody should be in a title match or have a prominent place on the show, but I DO think everybody deserves a chance to wrestle in front of the largest crowd of the year at the biggest event in the industry. The jobbers work their asses off all year with the grind of the travel schedule, too.

Formally having the Andre battle royal just ensures everybody will have a place. And even though the match is mostly midcard or lower talent, you could theoretically use it as a springboard to elevate somebody. That's what they seemed to be trying to do with Cesaro and Baron Corbin, even if their post-Mania booking didn't reflect that.

[Emperor Smeat]

Is there any other opponent for Goldberg at Mania? I'd actually like to see him squash The Miz, since Miz is about the only guy trying to be a heel and won't exactly be destroyed by it because he is a mid-card worm. I think they'll go the IC Title Ladder Match, but Goldberg winning the IC Title wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

What about Goldberg/Strowman? Not a big fan of Strowman, but people seem to think he is being booked well. Is there anything in a clash between those two at the big stage?
There was a rumor for a while about a potential Fatal Fourway which would have been Sting vs Taker vs Goldberg vs Lesnar.

Taker threatening Team Smackdown Men and the way Goldberg-Lesnar II happened pretty much got rid of that idea in favor of the current Goldberg and Taker rumors.

[Blonde Moment]

Are we entirely sure that we're getting Brock vs. Berg at WrestleMania? I could see the WWE doing something where Brock is eliminated from the Royal Rumble and the following week trashes ringside (like when he killed Michael Cole), only for his WrestleMania opponent to confront him. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Brock Lesnar vs. Shane McMahon was still on the cards.

Is there any other opponent for Goldberg at Mania? I'd actually like to see him squash The Miz, since Miz is about the only guy trying to be a heel and won't exactly be destroyed by it because he is a mid-card worm. I think they'll go the IC Title Ladder Match, but Goldberg winning the IC Title wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

What about Goldberg/Strowman? Not a big fan of Strowman, but people seem to think he is being booked well. Is there anything in a clash between those two at the big stage?
Hoping they keep on doig what they are doing with Strowman although I am not looking forward to him doing a clean job to Reigns at Wm. Sooner see Sammy somehow have a hand in it.

[#1-norm-fan]

s there any other opponent for Goldberg at Mania? I'd actually like to see him squash The Miz, since Miz is about the only guy trying to be a heel and won't exactly be destroyed by it because he is a mid-card worm. I think they'll go the IC Title Ladder Match, but Goldberg winning the IC Title wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

The definition of the titles are already convoluted enough with the mid-card titles and the "world" titles being treated as interchangeable and exchanged by midcarders over the years. Putting the IC Title on the most over/credible main eventer you've got would just make things worse. Especially when you've got TWO world titles on relative midcard guys that he should be able to squash in 2 seconds. It doesn't make sense.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The definition of the titles are already convoluted enough with the mid-card titles and the "world" titles being treated as interchangeable and exchanged by midcarders over the years. Putting the IC Title on the most over/credible main eventer you've got would just make things worse. Especially when you've got TWO world titles on relative midcard guys that he should be able to squash in 2 seconds. It doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I think I can get behind that point.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Thinking more about it, I'd probably turn Big Show/Shaq into the Andre Battle Royal, with the RAW Tag Team Title match happening on the pre-show, then all eight of those guys padding out the Battle Royal too (giving them a main card spot). This allows for Rusev to have a spot, although he can still do whatever else you have lined up for him anyway (Lana getting slut-shamed, Rusev being humiliated for standing up for her, etc.). They'll probably fly in the WWE UK Champion for a title defense on the pre-show against someone too. Maybe some sort of multi-woman match and cruiserweight clusterfuck too to promote the other shows the WWE has, before the main card kicks off with, hopefully, Neville vs. Ibushi.

I don't really think that match will happen, but it's within the realm of possibility. Neville looks to be going after the belt, has got a lot of energy behind him since he woke up the crowd, and Ibushi is on the WWE's radar. He doesn't want to sign full-time, but maybe they will be inspired to make a better offer (which might, in turn, lead to them treating him as a higher priority and a special deal) or allow him a similar deal to the UK guys they are signing -- where he'd just need to get his dates approved and he can collect WWE money. It's probably the only match I care about in the 205 Live realm, so I hope they do at least consider it and allow the guys to try and go out there and set the pace.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I was just thinking about the Brock Lesnar opponent at WrestleMania. A lot of people assume that it is going to be Goldberg, but the end game there is pretty short. Either Brock wins and Goldberg is done, or Goldberg keeps shocking the world and this time Brock has no excuses.

If both guys are going to stay on as special attractions, and given that they are two of the only guys in the company that can generate something resembling excitement, it wouldn't really make sense to put them against each other at Mania. Brock is heading into the Royal Rumble to hunt Goldberg, but it is also a wonderful opportunity for someone else to blitz Brock, eliminate him, get between him and his goals and earn the ire of both Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman.

There are very few guys on the WWE roster with the ability to mix it up with Brock believably. This is why Brock's matches have been on "Suplex Simmer" mode. They have been waiting for someone hot and believable enough to come along and be able to have that "Brock match" we all love. This is why Shane McMahon was also on the cards -- because like it or not, he's one of the few babyfaces on the roster that people actually believe in a little bit because of his last name. In fact, Brock vs. Shane is still not entirely out of the realms of possibility. All that would need to happen is that everybody in the Rumble works together to muscle out Brock, to which his response is to enter the ring and F5 everybody and make a scene only for Shane to come and try to stop him. Don't think the WWE wouldn't do it.

Brock is good at killing things and Shane is good at being killed. It is actually a very good match-up, and with Brock losing to Goldberg, he's got more vulnerability than ever before, but in a way that could present him as more dangerous. The only problem with a Brock vs. Shane match is that Brock's contract is coming up, isn't it? If Brock is going to re-sign, then he needs meat; but if he is going away then it would be beneficial for the WWE to use Brock to make someone. He proved how easily he can do it with Goldberg.

But who does Brock make? And who does he destroy if he is staying around? Is this where they blow their load with Braun Strowman? They probably know that secretly he is not really going to be a star and that this build-up has been fun but they need to discharge eventually. If Brock re-signs, he kills Braun, but if he decides to leave then they put Braun over as the new monster? If they know that Brock is leaving, do they call up Samoa Joe for that role? He's one of the few guys with the intensity to match Brock. He won't look that menacing next to Brock, but Heyman could sell it. It could be Reigns vs. Brock but better. Fuck, do they go with Reigns vs. Brock again and hope for the best?

I'm kind of curious to see what the Brock match at WrestleMania ends up being. If he chooses to leave it to the zero hour to re-sign, I can imagine things getting quite messy. But if they know they have Brock, even if it is just for one more year, then maybe the Brock vs. Shane match is actually the best way to go?

[Mr. Nerfect]

A different idea for getting to Cena vs. Styles for the WWE Title at Mania:

* John Cena gets the Royal Rumble title shot.

* Cena beats AJ Styles after a hard fought match and, weirdly enough, a tiny little bit of cheating when the referee isn't looking. John Cena has become the "16-time World Champion."

* AJ Styles is incensed and has snapped (and maybe even become a submission machine). He tosses things around backstage and says he is entering the Royal Rumble tonight. He bumps into someone like James Ellsworth or even Jinder Mahal and beats the piss out of them, opening up a spot.

* AJ Styles enters the Rumble. You can either go with him being the marathon man or him being a late entry that's pissed off. Either way, Angry Styles wins the 2017 Royal Rumble after losing the WWE Title earlier that night and having yet another classic with John Cena. He'll be getting the title shot at WrestleMania and "there's something different about AJ Styles."

* On SmackDown, Cena comes out to "Also Sprach Zarathustra" in a suit, styling and profiling. He basically acts like a bit of an ass. Not really a heel turn, mind you, but sort of like how Cena was willing to go a bit darker for The Rock. He acts a bit more entitled instead of being the humble "I'm proud of this achievement and for the people who supported me and the men and women who fight for this country" Cena. He's a bit more in love with himself, not unlike the film roles he has been hitting out of the park. He's the man and he knows it, and now that he has that record he's showing a bit more ego.

Basically, Styles goes a bit more serious and Cena is the one who plays bad, even though he still hasn't done anything too dastardly. I dunno, I think it would be more interesting. And someone beating Cena for his 16th championship seems like a bigger deal than Cena actually winning it at this point. I'd rather see Styles go over at WrestleMania too, so if we already have the belt on Cena we can tell the story of Styles going over him and we've done the 16th title win for Cena.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Possible development, but also a bit stupid (but would fit in with current WWE): John Cena stubs his toe the week of WrestleMania and suggests that he has to forfeit his 16th title. But then he gets good medical news that it was not as bad as he thought, and recovery time was a minute, so he will be good to challenge for his 17th WWE Championship at WrestleMania when he wins the vacant belt.

[Big Vic]

He could just win both the World and Universal title on the same night giving him his 16th and 17th win at mania.

[Emperor Smeat]

According to the Observer, Brock-Shane was the plan for Mania before Goldberg got brought back.

The idea was originally Vince's and had a lot of push back from upper management who hated the idea. Also seems like a portion of management still hasn't warmed up to Shane being back in prominent role in the company.

Ben part of a larger theme this year of management starting to push back more against Vince and his plans.

"That's why it was such a fight to get Goldberg because there were people who were very much pushing - 'we've got a plan, we've got a plan' ya know? And Vince ended up being convinced that Bill Goldberg was a better plan than Shane McMahon as a plan, which ruffled some key people's feathers."

He went on to say, "A lot of politics go through these decisions and a lot of people have different ideas of what will and won't get over. I'm not even saying this was personal agenda because this wasn't Shane I'm talking about although I'm sure Shane wasn't down for Goldberg vs. Lesnar at WrestleMania either but he's not in power. But the people who were, they felt that for whatever reason, that it wasn't the right idea but Vince overruled - I mean he didn't overrule them, it's Vince's rule - Vince ruled, Vince made the call and there were a lot of people against the finish of the Goldberg/Lesnar match and Vince ruled in that direction as well, so, just how things go."
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/5kjgs3/meltzer_shane_mcmahon_was_to_be_brock_lesnars_wm/

[Big Vic]

I guess Brock vs Goldberg is less shitty than Brock vs Shane. So thank you Goldberg.

[Emperor Smeat]

According to the Observer, WWE is backing away on having Reigns main event another Mania nor treat it like another "coronation" of his mega star status. If he gets a "coronation" moment, its likely happening at the Rumble instead.

Also Reigns-Strowman got downgraded from being very likely to just a possible option since the WWE is now considering more ideas. One idea involves a huge surprise but the Observer doesn't think the WWE would actually do it.

For what it’s worth, WWE officials have not decided on WrestleMania 33 plans for current United States Champion Roman Reigns with less than 100 days to go until the big event in Orlando.

It sounds like there could be a big coronation for Reigns at the Royal Rumble next month as he faces WWE Universal Champion Kevin Owens with Owens’ title on the line, according to Dave Meltzer on Wrestling Observer Radio. That match will feature Chris Jericho suspended above the ring in a shark cage.

Regarding WrestleMania 33, Meltzer noted that there are different ideas being discussed for Reigns and one includes a big surprise that’s probably not happening. No word yet on exactly what that surprise might be. However, none of the WrestleMania plans being discussed have anything to do with another Reigns coronation.

[Evil Vito]

lol...that last paragraph is the very reason internet wrestling journalism needs to be taken with a handful of salt

[Rebecca Reigns]

Roman could face an entire army and still come out on top!

[Mr. Nerfect]

To play devil's advocate, you can pretty much decipher what that means though. Someone has said "Reigns vs. Rock" or "Reigns vs. Batista" in a meeting but they can't get it done and Reigns isn't going to be winning the Rumble to face Owens. It's not that ludicrous.

[slik]

Meltzer has reported the following now



When it comes to the WrestleMania 33 card, Dave Meltzer of F4WOnline.com reports that the following three matches are currently locked in:

Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg
Triple H vs. Seth Rollins
Big Show vs. Shaquille O’Neal


According to Meltzer, WWE is considering doing Undertaker vs. Roman Reigns with the idea that it builds towards the future (Reigns) while a match with Undertaker vs. Cena doesn't. This will likely be Undertaker's last match, whether he faces Cena or Roman.


If Roman Reigns beats the Undertaker in his final match...that might actually be the thing that finally drives many older fans off.

[Evil Vito]

Yeah, that'll be the nail in the coffin for me.

Actually just doing Reigns/Taker at all might do it. Sounds shit.

[slik]

He would have to be insane to do Roman/Undertaker. If the reaction to Roman beating HHH at WM32 was bad, Roman ending the Undertaker's career would be an absolute disaster.

[Evil Vito]

Vince strikes me as tone deaf enough to do it.

[Evil Vito]

How the fuck could they not do Taker/Cena while they still have a chance?

ESPECIALLY since you know Reigns/Cena will happen at a WrestleMania before long.

[slik]

I could see Roman/Cena headlining SummerSlam for some reason.

[Evil Vito]

You can do Reigns/Cena at SummerSlam. Just have Cena go over Taker so he can transition that to Reigns.

[Evil Vito]

lol if Reigns goes over Taker and Cena in the same year. Nope that doesn't seem forced at all!

[Simple Fan]

Wow. Part of me actually wants to see that happen just for the fan reaction. It wouldn't be like when Brock beat Taker, the shock of him losing is gone. Only way it would build toward the future was if Roman turns heel and stays one.

[slik]

Actually I could see Roman beating Taker at WM, then Roman beating Cena at SummerSlam and then Roman beating Brock at WM34, especially if it is Minneapolis and is Lesnar's last bout.

[Simple Fan]

Reigns vs Strowman is probably their best option for a WM program for Reigns if they want to build towards the future. Throw them in there and see who the fans gravitate to.

I really think they should make 2017 a bad year for Reigns. Start with him losing at the RR, then losing his US title at the next Raw PPV, and then losing to Braun at Mania. Followed by a year of failures and short comings. They got to break him down and build some sympathy for the guy so fans can get behind him. Right now as fans see him he's the appointed successor to John Cena and fans just aren't buying it.

[Big Vic]

Strowman should go over Reigns.

[Emperor Smeat]

Reigns/Taker is probably going to kill off whatever mega star potential the WWE wants him to have than be a "Once in a Lifetime" type moment like Rock/Hogan and Rock/Cena I & II were.

Reigns isn't ready at all for a match of that magnitude and they are better off doing Cena/Taker at Mania 33 and then Reigns/Cena at Mania 34 to create the real "passing of the torch" moment for Reigns.

[Big Vic]

How come in our 'booking fantasies' we are putting reigns over people and passing the torch to him?

[Evil Vito]

Because we're trying to be realistic.

Reigns is going to be the top star in the company for the next decade. It is unavoidable. Short of Vince dying and Triple H taking over and completely changing everything, Reigns is going to be the top guy for a long time whether the fans respond to it or not.

[Big Vic]

You have to fight, You have to have hope, revolutions are built on hope.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ugh, really don't want to see Undertaker/Cena. I think it will happen, but I really don't want to see it. What's the finish? Who benefits?

[RP]

Cena vs Taker sounds better than anything i've heard them pitch so far. So logically you cant do it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Now that he is aligned with The Wyatt Family, Randy Orton facing The Undertaker could actually help out a few guys. As a result, that won't happen.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm now for Strowman being put in the Battle Royal (I'd make that the Big Show/Shaq match too) with Zayn facing Nakamura. It'd be the rough one year anniversary of their Match of the Year candidate on the big show. It doesn't really need much more hype than "Nakamura is coming."

Any word on when Shelton Benjamin is going to be medically cleared? I know there are some that are probably "Whatever" about his return, but I'm quite happy for the guy. If he is good to go in time, I'd be all for him entering the IC Title Ladder Match and actually winning a Ladder Match at WrestleMania. It'd be a fun moment for the guy, and wouldn't nearly be as big a "WTF" moment as Zack Ryder winning.

[#1-norm-fan]

Cena vs Taker could be the last true "big fight feel" match ever at the rate they're going. They gotta do it.

Unless they can surgically replace every bone and organ in Hulk Hogan's body and let him have a go facing all the other legends from an era where they could get guys over.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Without the streak I don't think it's anymore than the sum of its parts, frankly. When the streak was still there, it had this "Oh god, Cena could do it" feel. Now, without it, Cena beating The Undertaker would just "Of course he did" and Taker beating Cena would actually kind of suck. Part of Cena's charm is that he's been "the guy" for so long. If it turns out that he's just second to a dude who has been around even longer than him, it's just kind of...deflating.

Fuck, at this point I'd rather Cena and Taker team up to face The Wyatt Family for the Tag Team Titles. There's at least some drama there. Plus, I think that Cena vs. Taker, from an in-ring perspective, may not click as well as everyone expects two men of their stature to click at. I don't think it will suck, but I think there will be lulls where people realize "Oh fuck, this is a bit underwhelming, isn't it?" Let it just swim in people's imaginations OR just have them fight at a different PPV. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but I think Taker vs. Cena at Survivor Series, the birthplace of The Undertaker, in Houston, Survivor Series XXX would be a lot better for both men. Cena can properly heel it up, and it doesn't carry that "taking spots" vibe because it's fucking Survivor Series and it needs it.

[RP]

Cena vs Taker could be the last true "big fight feel" match ever at the rate they're going. They gotta do it.

Unless they can surgically replace every bone and organ in Hulk Hogan's body and let him have a go facing all the other legends from an era where they could get guys over.

I agree. Cena had grown on me. I'm starting to realize he puts on amazing matches. Maybe thats a bad thing. Maybe that means the rest of the talent suck. I dont know.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I think they have to do Cena and Taker now. Who cares if it leads nowhere? That's not the point. It's a special attraction match. And like fan said, prob the biggest match they can put on.

Its been, what, 13 years since they've actually faced each other? That's a long fucking time. Get it done.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cena has gotten a lot better before our eyes, very subtly. He's now a legitimately great professional wrestler, as opposed to a guy with certain qualities and a lot of potential to live up to. His push is also less sickening (remember when Cena held the WWE Title for over a year?). It's been over two years since the guy has been WWE Champion, and he lost it in what was a smooshing. That Brock match helped Cena a lot, because it took out a lot of the pent-up frustration fans had with Cena being perceived as invincible. It was a cathartic moment that gave people that nut-off and move past how produced Cena was, and see how truly talented he is. The US Title reigns also helped tremendously too. It took him out of the main event picture and used his unflappable status to put the spotlight on some other guys by at least having great matches with them. It worked so well that they thought they'd try it with Reigns, but they've missed the part where he's not dominating the main event picture at the same time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think they have to do Cena and Taker now. Who cares if it leads nowhere? That's not the point. It's a special attraction match. And like fan said, prob the biggest match they can put on.

Its been, what, 13 years since they've actually faced each other? That's a long fucking time. Get it done.

That is exactly the problem with a lot of the things the WWE does these days lol.

[Mr. Nerfect]

That being said, I predict the match will happen. I'm thinking Cena wins the belt at the Royal Rumble and then Taker wins the Rumble itself to set it up. Be careful what you wish for.

As for what Styles does? I think it'll either be a match with Shane McMahon, provided they go with Goldberg vs. Brock III, or Shane will face Brock, Goldberg challenges for the RAW Title and AJ Styles actually gets Nakamura. It'd be pretty easy to set up -- Styles bitches to Daniel Bryan about being The Greatest Wrestler in the World Today and he wants to be in the main event of Mania, and Bryan says "Well, there is another man that many consider to be The Greatest Wrestler in the World Today" and Nakamura comes out and Styles looks like he has seen a ghost.

Either that or they'll just stick Styles in the IC Title Ladder Match because, fuck it, it's WrestleMania and AJ Styles isn't really a star, right? Remember that year they just jammed Daniel Bryan in there? Haha.