RAW - B Show - OFFICIAL THREAD 1.2.17

[Emperor Smeat]

:eek: Enzo didn't get randomly beat up for once.

[Dark One]

Another miracle! Rusev wins!

[slik]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1N2Y8kUoAAsVjc.jpg

[Dark One]

stealing that 4 twitter @dark one

Stealing my lines and can't even give me rep for it? I thought we were cool, slik.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">At least now we know why <a href="https://twitter.com/WWENeville">@WWENeville</a> is so pissed off all the time. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Emmalina?src=hash">#Emmalina</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAW?src=hash">#RAW</a> <a href="https://t.co/Ouonc7IYL6">pic.twitter.com/Ouonc7IYL6</a></p>&mdash; Over The Ropes (@CBOverTheRopes) <a href="https://twitter.com/CBOverTheRopes/status/816125869274107904">January 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Lock Jaw]

Charlotte raiding Steph's wardrobe

[slik]

Nia is not like most girls

[Lock Jaw]

I'm actually going to be paying attention during the main (wrestling) event of RAW. Crazy.

[Droford]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbnuqZDP2sxqZoYbgmAel7c54Pjo8gjkYfWBpJ1zAanEmTySN9

[Lock Jaw]

My feed really messing up......

[Droford]

Lol really

[Lock Jaw]

The quickest Bayley/Nia match

[slik]

At least the Bayley to Belly was from the 2nd rope...would seem extra-unbelievable if she hit a regular one on Nia and then pinned her.

[Dark One]

Sasha is the true hero for ending this match.

[Lock Jaw]

What in the world is Bret Hart mad at?

Can they fit that into one show?

[Emperor Smeat]

Would have been pretty amazing if Bayley was able to actually flip Nia with the Bayley to Belly from the ropes and not just fall straight down.

[slik]

Will Kevin Owens eat a spear from Goldberg

[KIRA]

You know who else uses the Belly to Belly as a finisher? Shane Douglas

let that sit for a while.

[Emperor Smeat]

Going to laugh next week if Taker gives a big speech about RAW being his home.

[KIRA]

lol WWE solution to RAW low rating isn't more and better wrestling its guest appearances

SD ended with a fantastic match last week RAW is gonna end with more talking and maybe a move to close out the show.

[Evil Vito]

Undertaker on Raw?

Oh god.......they're actually going to do Reigns/Taker...

[Emperor Smeat]

:lol: at Owens' Show sign.

The little guest lawn chair is great.

[Lock Jaw]

:lol: sign guy

[RP]

lol Jericho

[RP]

I bet that guy wearing the sign was a real fan. WWE probably stole that from my thread idea.

[KIRA]

Kevin Owens is great but "stupid idiot" sounds stupid coming from his mouth.

[Lock Jaw]

Jericho for Royal Rumble winner

[RP]

Man i hope Goldbergs son keeps his shirt on tonight.

[slik]

subtle hints of Y2J vs KO at WM...

[slik]

Goldberg has come to fight...

[RP]

This can only end in WWE fashion.. Goldberg burying the champion.

[slik]

Heyman <3

[Triple A]

This is pretty good I think

[KIRA]

again last week SD ended with an awesome main event

[RP]

LOL we know Brock Lesnar is not there. Not enough money to pay him for 2 Raws a month.

[RP]

HERE COMES THE SUCK!

[A.J.K]

SHITMAN STAINS has soiled us with his presence

[RP]

BRAUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[Lock Jaw]

What if Goldberg and Roman Reigns simultaneously speared each other..... would there just be an explosion.......

[slik]

BRAUUUUUNNN

[Lock Jaw]

:lol: Braun taking the mic from a cowering Heyman

[Emperor Smeat]

Goldberg looks weird with those Popeye-like faces he keeps making.

[RP]

BRAUN SPEAK

BRAUN SPEAK LOUD!

BRAUN GET IN RING AND STARE NOW

BRAUN THANKS YOU

[KIRA]

WWE will tease interesting match ups only to give shittiest possible combination

[Lock Jaw]

Build up Braun earlier so he can get TAKEN OUT now

[slik]

This kind of makes it seem like Goldberg vs Roman Reigns will be the WrestleMania main-event.

[Emperor Smeat]

Was that a doc/trainer next to Braun?

Could be a possible Papa Shango sign.

Main event segment was ok overall.

[Dark One]

Well that was an ending.

[Triple A]

Was that a doc/trainer next to Braun?

Could be a possible Papa Shango sign.

Looked like he was limping on the way down the aisle

[Dark One]

This kind of makes it seem like Goldberg vs Roman Reigns will be the WrestleMania main-event.

They should just go ahead and book it as an Empty Arena Match preemptively.

[RP]

This kind of makes it seem like Goldberg vs Roman Reigns will be the WrestleMania main-event.

I think they are clearly trying to throw everyone off with that whole segment.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Pretty heavy tease for Roman Reigns vs. Goldberg. They were an interesting visual dynamic. At this point, given that Owens is basically a flop as the Universal Champion, Reigns vs. Goldberg with Reigns acting like the cocky young "it" guy would probably be the best bet and could actually be a WrestleMania headliner, which you can't say about any other title match. I'd give Goldberg a run at this point, given that he's the only guy that really seems to "get it" on RAW.

I don't want to see Owens vs. Jericho though. It just doesn't...pop. I think I'd rather see them team up to face either Sheamus & Cesaro or The New Day for the RAW Tag Team Titles at Mania. Sami Zayn's issues can always be strung up again by Owens & Jericho, which could lead to him needing to find a partner, and he could be the guy who brings up Nakamura? One year after their "Fight Forever" classic in NXT, Zayn & Nakamura team up to challenge Canadian National Treasures(R) for the Tag Team Championship. It'd put Nakamura with three guys who will be able to carry the talking and work extremely well with him.

[RP]

watching Lana and Renee line dance on Total Divas is making my pants smaller.

[slik]

Paul Heyman talking about Rocky Horror Picture Show on this new show

[Droford]

Goldberg vs Reigns
Spear vs Spear
Jackhammer vs Jackass

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/Goldberg">@Goldberg</a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/BraunStrowman">@BraunStrowman</a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/WWERomanReigns">@WWERomanReigns</a> in ONE ring... <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAW?src=hash">#RAW</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KOShow?src=hash">#KOShow</a> <a href="https://t.co/AfOnxoCrqU">pic.twitter.com/AfOnxoCrqU</a></p>&mdash; WWE (@WWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE/status/816137003473346561">January 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[slik]

This new show is interesting, basically answering questions hardcore fan/internet fans have

[slik]

So far they have talked about: Goldberg/Lesnar being drug out until WM, If SD is better, if Charlotte/Sasha is overdone, etc

[Droford]

The biggest thing I learned tonight is Paige is pregnant OR Del Rio is a medical miracle

[slik]

Undertaker photo as JBL's groomsmen is fantastic!

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Undertaker as one of JBL's groomsmen<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWE?src=hash">#WWE</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Undertaker?src=hash">#Undertaker</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WrestleMania?src=hash">#WrestleMania</a> <a href="https://t.co/nFVMI02etK">pic.twitter.com/nFVMI02etK</a></p>&mdash; Kenton Lane (@TheKentonLane) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheKentonLane/status/816140474046103552">January 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Emperor Smeat]

http://i.imgur.com/eoGNtWv.jpg

[Evil Vito]

I'd be interested in Goldberg/Reigns after last night's confrontation, but then that doesn't leave anything for Brock.

[slik]

Brock vs Braun

maybe original plan of Brock vs Shane

maybe final match of Taker's career of Brock vs Taker?

[Evil Vito]

Brock/Braun could work, but would they hotshot the Universal Title to him or Brock to make that match for the belt?

You could have Balor win the Rumble and challenge Owens for the belt. But then the Universal Title match is like the 4th most important match on Raw behind Reigns/Taker, Goldberg/Lesnar, and HHH/Rollins.

[slik]

The Universal Title match was already going to get that gig - previous rumors were Roman/Braun, and that would have been lower on the card for sure (middle of the ppv).

[Evil Vito]

What about a Gauntlet Match?

Roman Reigns vs. Goldberg, Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker, and God

[The CyNick]

Lots of great options for WWE as they head into the new year.

Reigns really should be the champion, as he's the top guy on the brand. Would be really cool to see him crowned a double champion at Rumble and give a nice payoff to all his fans.

Then you can see from RAW they have lots of intriguing options. Goldberg vs Reigns would be fresh, which would leave Strowman and Lesnar as another mega match. Goldberg v Lesnar would leave Reigns vs Strowman as classic good guy vs Monster storyline.

Add that to HHH vs Rollins and Owens vs Jericho, and RAW has some strong stuff lined up. Good time to be a fan.

[Big Vic]

Do you think Braun should go over Brock, CyNick?

[The CyNick]

Do you think Braun should go over Brock, CyNick?

It's really tough without knowing what Brock's future is.

My feeling is he needs to win again coming off the deal with Goldberg, if you want to keep him around as a special attraction. But then if they want to build up Braun, he shouldn't be losing to Lesnar. Moreover a win over Lesnar would set him up nicely for a post Mania program with Reigns.

I feel like Goldberg vs Lesnar and Braun vs Reigns is the better choice, because then Lesnar can get his win back, and finish that story. But then that would seem to be the end of Goldberg, and I feel like he's still got more legs. Unless you just tell the story that Goldberg has Lesnar's number, and then Goldberg would be a viable opponent for the Strowman-Reigns winner after Mania.

I dunno it's a tough call to make.

[Evil Vito]

Reigns really should be the champion, as he's the top guy on the brand. Would be really cool to see him crowned a double champion at Rumble and give a nice payoff to all his fans.

lol

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Is Reigns still booed mercilessly every week?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lmfao

[Big Vic]

Yes Mr. Rey, yes he is.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You're fired for not towing the company line, Vic.

[The CyNick]

Which full timer on RAW gets a bigger reaction than Reigns? Just because the vocal minority boos him, doesn't mean he's not over. At the end of the day, they are still paying for tickets to see him headline.

Cena gets boos too, he's the most over guy in the company. If you book to appease the smarks you'll be out of business real quick. Real quick.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

well it wouldn't be any different to what they're doing anyways so they may as well

[Destor]

Traditional face/heel paradigms have been antiquated for 10 years but the internet hasnt caught on yet

[The CyNick]

well it wouldn't be any different to what they're doing anyways so they may as well

WWE was nice enough to create a whole brand dedicated to the smarks, it's called NXT. They draw 500 people a night.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

WWE was nice enough to create a whole brand dedicated to the smarks, it's called NXT. They draw 500 people a night.

what does this have to do with what I said?

[The CyNick]

what does this have to do with what I said?

I thought you were responding to my book to smarks comment

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

oh. I guess? I was just saying they may as well just book Reigns as champion. There's a specific formula they book to, Roman kind of adheres to it, so it fits in with everything.

Roman's pretty good, just not quite there. Hopefully with time at the top and develops the same he has been, just needs to not pander as much and not be such a cliche, but he'll figure it out eventually.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

All that happens with guys like Owens and Rollins is they just become bland mid card champions because they company isn't truly behind them. They'd be better off being credible upper midcarders who can slot into main events when need be.

[The CyNick]

oh. I guess? I was just saying they may as well just book Reigns as champion. There's a specific formula they book to, Roman kind of adheres to it, so it fits in with everything.

Roman's pretty good, just not quite there. Hopefully with time at the top and develops the same he has been, just needs to not pander as much and not be such a cliche, but he'll figure it out eventually.

Makes sense

I look at it like Reigns clearly connects with the vast majority of the audience. Some hate him, most like him, but they all care about him. Most of his matches on top have been really good, so I think he deserves another real run on top. His initial run was disjointed because all the injuries caused changes to the lineup, and they had to be creative with getting Hunter the strap. Not to mention the unfortunate issue with the wellness violation. Now they have a chance to promote a major show with him in a top spot and give the proper payoff you expect from a babyface title chase.

But then you have another potential stud in Braun coming up, so do you put the rocket pack on him or do you just use his size to help tell a sympathy story with Roman and have him overcome his greatest obstacle. That may further cement Reigns as the Superman of the company. Either way, good to have options.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

babyfaces should be cheered.

[The CyNick]

All that happens with guys like Owens and Rollins is they just become bland mid card champions because they company isn't truly behind them. They'd be better off being credible upper midcarders who can slot into main events when need be.

Cena and Reigns were recent examples of top guys who managed to make winning the secondary singles title seem special. I would like to see them institute a rule that states every time you win the IC or US titles, it gives you a guaranteed World/Universal title match. Similar to MITB without the 24-7 rule. That way guys like Rollins and Owens would still want to go after that title because it's a way back up to the top of the ladder. You could tell some good stories where a guy could win the US title, but be tangled in a feud, and get screwed out of the title before having a chance to cash in the world title opportunity.

[Blonde Moment]

Reigns needs a little more time doing what he is doing.
I want Braun to crush Reigns as badly has he did Zahn tonight and in the same manner at WM 33 and then make the next year all about Reigns return cumulating in taking the title off the monster at Wm 34. Throw Braun at Brock at 35 with Brock doing the job and making Braun the "attraction"

[The CyNick]

babyfaces should be cheered.

But look at me, I get tons of great on here, but I'm clearly the best poster in the forum, and have been for well over a decade. Noid seems to be more adored by the masses (except my boi Heyman), but clearly he's inferior to me. You can't always trust the judgment of the larger group, that's why we only name nine people to the Supreme Court.

[The CyNick]

Reigns needs a little more time doing what he is doing.
I want Braun to crush Reigns as badly has he did Zahn tonight and in the same manner at WM 33 and then make the next year all about Reigns return cumulating in taking the title off the monster at Wm 34. Throw Braun at Brock at 35 with Brock doing the job and making Braun the "attraction"

If Braun crushes Reigns like that, he'll likely be made babyface by the audience. At that point you might as well feed him everyone. Do a Goldberg type push.

The thing about the attraction spot is it should only go to part time guys. I don't think Braun will be part time in 2 years.

[Blonde Moment]

Wwe desperately wants us to cheer for someone with the personna of a dick and Cena pretty much is a dick, Reigns has not put in the time to do that as a face.

Humble him.
Give the fans what they think they want and then when they see it unfold make them uncomfortable.

[Blonde Moment]

If Braun crushes Reigns like that, he'll likely be made babyface by the audience. At that point you might as well feed him everyone. Do a Goldberg type push.

The thing about the attraction spot is it should only go to part time guys. I don't think Braun will be part time in 2 years.

He has a few shortcomings and putting him in that spot covers those shortcoming a little

[Blonde Moment]

Reigns needs to be beat so badly it makes Owenbrown cry

[The CyNick]

Reigns needs to be beat so badly it makes Owenbrown cry

It just depends what they want from him long term. If he's moving merch, he currently gets big reactions, so he should be the focal point of the show.

In that case, he should be winning as much as possible. He can lose down the line.

[#1-norm-fan]

Guys...


Don't fall for it. Seriously. What the fuck....

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

just friends having a conversation about wrestling

[BigCrippyZ]

But look at me, I get tons of great on here, but I'm clearly the best poster in the forum, and have been for well over a decade. Noid seems to be more adored by the masses (except my boi Heyman), but clearly he's inferior to me. You can't always trust the judgment of the larger group, that's why we only name nine people to the Supreme Court.

:lol:

CyNick comparing himself to Cena and Reigns.

I don't think anyone who posts on a wrestling forum should claim superiority over others on the forum re: their talent/impact/importance/popularity on said wrestling forum.

BTW, the reason we only name nine people to the Supreme Court is because Congress passed legislation limiting the number of justices to nine and only Congress has the legal authority via the U.S. Constitution to decide the appropraite number. It has nothing to do with the size of the group, you moron.

[mike adamle]

Guys...


Don't fall for it. Seriously. What the fuck....

Hilarious :roll:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

CyNick is more akin to Bob Backlund's 1994-1997 run in the WWF.

[XL]

But look at me, I get tons of great on here, but I'm clearly the best poster in the forum, and have been for well over a decade. Noid seems to be more adored by the masses (except my boi Heyman), but clearly he's inferior to me. You can't always trust the judgment of the larger group, that's why we only name nine people to the Supreme Court.

:rofl:

[Emperor Smeat]

oh. I guess? I was just saying they may as well just book Reigns as champion. There's a specific formula they book to, Roman kind of adheres to it, so it fits in with everything.

Roman's pretty good, just not quite there. Hopefully with time at the top and develops the same he has been, just needs to not pander as much and not be such a cliche, but he'll figure it out eventually.

All that happens with guys like Owens and Rollins is they just become bland mid card champions because they company isn't truly behind them. They'd be better off being credible upper midcarders who can slot into main events when need be.

Agree on both of these. Reigns isn't close to what the WWE believes he is as a mega star but since they don't truly care about anyone else on RAW sans Charlotte and Strowman, might as well just give him the Universal belt. Then they can see the fruit of their plans fall apart again like the previous times he was champ.

He's probably 2-3 years away from being the mega star they want but only if he followed a Rock-like route for his development and booking. Going even stronger in Super Cena or LOLCenaWins type booking isn't helping him at all.

RAW would benefit a lot more if their mid-card was a lot stronger than them keeping on half-assing the US belt's treatment or not being committed when one of their non-hand pick stars has a US or Universal reign.

[#1-norm-fan]

Hilarious :roll:

Yeah, that wasn't even "kinda" a joke.

[Phenomenal 1]

I'm to the point that given what I've watched and seen, Roman Reigns' run as US Champion has been anything but irrelevant to me. Most of his title run has been centered around chasing after the Universal Championship. If thats the focal point of how they are going to book him, then book that. Having him defend the title only to turn around later on the show to thrust his status towards the Universal Championship just makes the US title look less and less credible. Last night should have been the night they took the title off him and shifted the focus on him vs Owens.

It would have been a nice payoff and reward for Jericho who has spent the better part of the year putting talent over at this stage of his career and yet still having some great matches if not some of the best matches on the card. Would have been a nice cementing of legacy for the 1st undisputed champion to be the first guy in WWE to hold IC, Both brands of Tag Team, US, WHC, WWE Champion and 1st ever Undisputed Champion. That would have been paying it forward in my opnion and given Jericho the go ahead to defend the title and make it relevant with guys like Zayne, Rollins, Rusev, hell even you could have thrown it on Braun Stroman, but get if off Reins.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Was the JBL, Heyman and Rosenberg thing worth watching?

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Agree with Phenomenal1. Putting the strap on Jericho also allows him to go into a feud and eventually out over another young talent but this time for a belt.

[Emperor Smeat]

Was the JBL, Heyman and Rosenberg thing worth watching?

Didn't see it but from what I've read online about the debut episode, it was pretty bad and mostly just the WWE mocking their fans and Bret Hart.

[Evil Vito]

Was the JBL, Heyman and Rosenberg thing worth watching?

It's just the three of them talking nonstop about how fans on the Internet are wrong about everything.

[Evil Vito]

Whoa, a superplex ends it

[The CyNick]

CyNick is more akin to Bob Backlund's 1994-1997 run in the WWF.

That was a solid run

[The CyNick]

:lol:

CyNick comparing himself to Cena and Reigns.

I don't think anyone who posts on a wrestling forum should claim superiority over others on the forum re: their talent/impact/importance/popularity on said wrestling forum.

BTW, the reason we only name nine people to the Supreme Court is because Congress passed legislation limiting the number of justices to nine and only Congress has the legal authority via the U.S. Constitution to decide the appropraite number. It has nothing to do with the size of the group, you moron.

If you feel you're better than everyone, why wouldn't you say it? You could say it, it would be absurd to claim, but you could do it. With me the statement holds water because it's true, and deep down everyone knows it.

Thanks for the history lesson by the way, your contribution to the thread is appreciated.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm actually on-board with Reigns as a double-champion. There is no way that Roman Reigns is ever going to be the beloved babyface Vince wants him to be until he turns heel and has a very cool run as the top guy on the brand, but if you're going to push him, at least push him unironically. Since he was "annointed," Reigns has been a part of some pretty farcical stuff. He won the 2015 Royal Rumble in an abysmal Rumble, even if you knew what they were trying to do. But then he got his ass kicked by Brock, he won the belt back in a tournament, lost it a few seconds later, won it back, lost it via ridiculous Rumble antics, then won it back and lost it again.

Reigns has not been booked well. They really went balls-in with him two years ago, but since then it has all been angle this, angle that. He will get booed wherever he goes, but as long as you put faces against him, there is someone to cheer. Reigns can be a heel on an almost psychic level. But at least try to make him look like an ass-kicking god. That match with Owens should be complete destruction. The "Reigns can really work guys, see" approach hasn't earned him any adoration from the fans. This is especially urgent if you are building him towards Goldberg.

[Evil Vito]

I'd much prefer Reigns beating Owens in 2 minutes ala Goldberg as a terrified Jericho looks on from the shark cage than I would Owens and Reigns wrestle another formulaic 15 minute match.

Jericho not being able to help could also be used to stoke the flames for Jericho/Owens at Mania too.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Reigns just needs not to talk that much. He "tries" to be cool. Aesthetically (well in a audibility sense) I believe you need the vocal males on your side, in order to have a good production of his character. That will make him the complete package, when he has the vocal adult males on his side.

At the end of the day, when you have some guy trying to remember lines that just don't come naturally to him, it loses PART of the audience no matter what. Let Roman be Roman.

[The CyNick]

I'm actually on-board with Reigns as a double-champion. There is no way that Roman Reigns is ever going to be the beloved babyface Vince wants him to be until he turns heel and has a very cool run as the top guy on the brand, but if you're going to push him, at least push him unironically. Since he was "annointed," Reigns has been a part of some pretty farcical stuff. He won the 2015 Royal Rumble in an abysmal Rumble, even if you knew what they were trying to do. But then he got his ass kicked by Brock, he won the belt back in a tournament, lost it a few seconds later, won it back, lost it via ridiculous Rumble antics, then won it back and lost it again.

Reigns has not been booked well. They really went balls-in with him two years ago, but since then it has all been angle this, angle that. He will get booed wherever he goes, but as long as you put faces against him, there is someone to cheer. Reigns can be a heel on an almost psychic level. But at least try to make him look like an ass-kicking god. That match with Owens should be complete destruction. The "Reigns can really work guys, see" approach hasn't earned him any adoration from the fans. This is especially urgent if you are building him towards Goldberg.

I think Reigns was a victim of some bad timing. The whole Rumble 2015 thing was purely a result of smarks hijacking the show because their bearded hero wasn't going over. I don't think that was bad booking, other than maybe they should have put the Rumble in another city. But who could predict that would happen?

The 2016 stuff was just an issue with injuries and needing to move pieces around to get to new matches. If you look at his run with the title post Mania he was looking strong, then the wellness thing derailed things plus they needed to split the titles for the brand split. I think if he goes over Owens strong and gets a real run he'll be even more popular than he already is. There will still be boos, but those people will booo anything, you know you have their money no matter what is done.

[Blonde Moment]

I think Reigns was a victim of some bad timing. The whole Rumble 2015 thing was purely a result of smarks hijacking the show because their bearded hero wasn't going over. I don't think that was bad booking, other than maybe they should have put the Rumble in another city. But who could predict that would happen?

The 2016 stuff was just an issue with injuries and needing to move pieces around to get to new matches. If you look at his run with the title post Mania he was looking strong, then the wellness thing derailed things plus they needed to split the titles for the brand split. I think if he goes over Owens strong and gets a real run he'll be even more popular than he already is. There will still be boos, but those people will booo anything, you know you have their money no matter what is done.

The problem was Vince made a bad call and Reigns paid the price for it just as the talent usually does when the promoter makes a bad call. As for going over Owens strong what difference does that make? According to you Owens wasn't champiion material to begin with and therefore Reigns goingover strong over a "nobody" is irrelevant. Might as well put Ellsworth in Owens spot by your reckoning because they are of the same caliber.

[BigCrippyZ]

But who could predict that would happen?


Anyone with half a brain would've seen it coming from a mile away as soon as Bryan was put in the Rumble match in December. You don't take your #1 or #2 babyface (second maybe to Cena) at the time, who is coming back from injury, put him in the Rumble and have him lose the Rumble because you have some new jacked up toy (Reigns) who you (incorrectly) believe will be a bigger star. At the very least, if Bryan doesn't win the Rumble, you find a way to put him in the WM main event that year. This whole mistake was easily forseeable and Reigns' failure lies strictly with Vince McMahon and his own arrogance and/or delusions.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah we all had it predicted. I mean we are but lowly Meltzer sheep,,,,,,,, but I specifically remember everyone being quite adamant that Roman was fucked if they pushed him too hard in the rumble.

[XL]

They should just have waited on Bryan's return if they wanted to go with Roman. You could even build it into the plot of The Authority being against him (I.e. They delayed his clearance to wrestle purposefully until after the Rumble).

[Big Vic]

So sad we never got that Brock vs Bryan match.

[Evil Vito]

Philadelphia was going to boo Roman anyway, but putting Bryan in the Rumble anyway only to have him dumped out in minutes was just a massive fuck you to the audience.

[BigCrippyZ]

There were just so many better things they could've done, all without shitting on Bryan or the fans, especially if they wanted to get Reigns over long term.

[BigCrippyZ]

To say that what happened wasn't foreseeable is either just incredibly stupid or trolling... oh wait... it's Cynick. He fits both.

[Evil Vito]

I'm certain that Goldust entering immediately after Bryan's elimination with "SHATTERED DREAMS" appearing on the screen was intentional.

[#1-norm-fan]

Roman Reigns was booked to go over Daniel Bryan the next month clean. Just throwing that out there for anyone who forgot.

Also, like... every babyface smark favorite over the following year. lol

[Evil Vito]

Imagine if they'd decided to just hold off on Bryan until after WM31?

There's a chance he'd still be wrestling.

[#1-norm-fan]

I thought his neck was already fucked up and it was inevitable anyway.

[Evil Vito]

It was. I'm glad he picked up another injury when he did so they could get him checked out and stop him from doing further damage.

But fuck, if they bring him in after WM31 there's a chance he's fighting Brock at SummerSlam without knowing how much damage it would do for him.

[Evil Vito]

What I'm trying to say is: Vince McMahon is a genius who saved the life of the internet's favorite wrestler and he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.

[Phenomenal 1]

With the way the booking is going, you know you aren't getting Lesnar or Goldberg winning the Rumble. They are going to Mania to go one on one. I think at this point its gonna be Cena vs Undertaker at Mania, which might actually be for the WWE Championship. I think Cena might actually go over at the Rumble having him tie Flair. So that leaves who goes to Mania to fight for the title. I can't really see RR going over KO in the Universal Championship but hey who the fuck knows. I think its very apparent that Raw is going to have the winner of the RR. The way its being booked I see either Seth Rollins winning the Rumble or in a swerve move, maybe Finn Balor if he is ready making a return and winning. Highly doubt option #2. The only way Rollins wouldn't be going over is they actually go back to the program of HHH costing him the title back in August. Which in that case they meet at Mania. If that happens who the fuck knows who wins the rumble, probably James Ellsworth. The booking as of late has been pretty sporadic and shitty.

[Heisenberg]

Y'all better shut the hell up and read what Phenomenal 1 has to say ^^^

[Emperor Smeat]

So sad we never got that Brock vs Bryan match.

Would have just been the same as Cena-Brock was since Vince never planned that match to be anything but a brutal squash by Brock.

Even after Mania 30, Vince still wasn't a fan of Bryan as champ and was just going to feed him to Lesnar to boost Lesnar's Final Boss aura. Probably would have gone right back to the mid-card if it wasn't for his injury derailing those plans. The booking of Cena-Lesnar afterwards did imply Vince being upset at having to use Cena for the squash since Cena pretty much shrugged off any effects of it very quickly.

[The CyNick]

The problem was Vince made a bad call and Reigns paid the price for it just as the talent usually does when the promoter makes a bad call. As for going over Owens strong what difference does that make? According to you Owens wasn't champiion material to begin with and therefore Reigns goingover strong over a "nobody" is irrelevant. Might as well put Ellsworth in Owens spot by your reckoning because they are of the same caliber.

I wouldn't say Owens is a nobody, I think he's a good hand. I just mean that at some point a Babyface should overcome the odds and get the job done. This is Reigns' chance to do that, and then carry the momentum to Mania and likely beyond.

The promoter made the right call, it's just the fans decided to hijack the show. Daniel Bryan was at best an injury prone star at that point, and at worst someone who's career was very limited. WWE had already the spent the better part of the year leading up to 30 pushing Bryan. To spend that same time and energy on a guy who was even more broken down would have been terrible use of valuable TV time. Vince made the right call to pick the next guy in line. But the fans in the arena that night weren't smart enough to understand the call that was being made. Financial results will tell you WWE made the right call with Reigns.

[The CyNick]

Anyone with half a brain would've seen it coming from a mile away as soon as Bryan was put in the Rumble match in December. You don't take your #1 or #2 babyface (second maybe to Cena) at the time, who is coming back from injury, put him in the Rumble and have him lose the Rumble because you have some new jacked up toy (Reigns) who you (incorrectly) believe will be a bigger star. At the very least, if Bryan doesn't win the Rumble, you find a way to put him in the WM main event that year. This whole mistake was easily forseeable and Reigns' failure lies strictly with Vince McMahon and his own arrogance and/or delusions.

The arrogance that made him the most successful person in his industry? Yeah, probably shouldn't trust that guy's opinion.

Check out my previous post about Bryan's heath. It will address your lack of understanding of the situation.

[The CyNick]

Yeah we all had it predicted. I mean we are but lowly Meltzer sheep,,,,,,,, but I specifically remember everyone being quite adamant that Roman was fucked if they pushed him too hard in the rumble.

I was all for Reigns as the next top guy. The time was right to create a new star. That is how to keep the business going. Trying to recreate magic from the year before would have been a retread, and besides, Daniel couldn't carry the weight of the company on his back.

[The CyNick]

They should just have waited on Bryan's return if they wanted to go with Roman. You could even build it into the plot of The Authority being against him (I.e. They delayed his clearance to wrestle purposefully until after the Rumble).

That's a fair criticism, but I think it also made sense to get additional subs from the people who wanted to see Daniel win. It told a better story with Daniel in the match and coming up short. All Cinderella stories eventually end at midnight.

[The CyNick]

There were just so many better things they could've done, all without shitting on Bryan or the fans, especially if they wanted to get Reigns over long term.

How is it shitting in the fans? Because a different guy won? Do you follow sports? Sometimes your team falls short. Plus I'm sure WWE would have been happy to continue to capitalize on the work they put into making Daniel a top star, but his body failed him and the company. Why go back to that well?

[The CyNick]

I thought his neck was already fucked up and it was inevitable anyway.

Yes! Hold the phone, we agree on something. Scotch is on me!

[Emperor Smeat]

Imagine if they'd decided to just hold off on Bryan until after WM31?

There's a chance he'd still be wrestling.

I thought his neck was already fucked up and it was inevitable anyway.

If I remember, Bryan mentioned once or twice (maybe in his book) about pushing himself even harder prior to his last neck injury because he wanted to erase all doubt Vince had in him as a potential mega star. That was a main reason why he didn't slow down at all or change up his moves and style to be more slower/safer.

WWE tried to pass off several times in interviews about them always being behind Bryan's rise to mega stardom and his Mania 30 push when others have said neither was the case. Them crushing Cesaro's rise out of spite for what the crowds did for Bryan pretty much proved they don't want crowds to pick mega stars and only accept what they hand pick for stars.

[BigCrippyZ]

The arrogance that made him the most successful person in his industry? Yeah, probably shouldn't trust that guy's opinion.

What industry is that exactly? Television? Or is it movies? Or is it the entertainment industry? Regardless, he's not the most successful person in any of those industries.

It's certainly not professional wrestling. Vince isn't in the professional wrestling industry. He routinely insists so himself.

Nor is it "sports entertainment" because that's not an actual industry. It's a term he created so he could claim industry superiority while being able to differentiate himself from the competitors in his actual industry (pro wrestling) and attempt to be taken seriously by those who actually are leaders in the television, movie and entertainment industries he so desperately wants to be a part of.

[The CyNick]

What industry is that exactly? Television? Or is it movies? Or is it the entertainment industry? Regardless, he's not the most successful person in any of those industries.

It's certainly not professional wrestling. Vince isn't in the professional wrestling industry. He routinely insists so himself.

Nor is it "sports entertainment" because that's not an actual industry. It's a term he created so he could claim industry superiority while being able to differentiate himself from the competitors in his actual industry (pro wrestling) and attempt to be taken seriously by those who actually are leaders in the television, movie and entertainment industries he so desperately wants to be a part of.

He's had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years. How many people in the TV industry can claim that? Keep swinging kid.

[BigCrippyZ]

How is it shitting in the fans? Because a different guy won? Do you follow sports? Sometimes your team falls short. Plus I'm sure WWE would have been happy to continue to capitalize on the work they put into making Daniel a top star, but his body failed him and the company. Why go back to that well?

We're not talking about sports. We're talking about a scripted pro wrestling event.

It's shitting on the fans because after Bryan's return from injury, the fans clearly wanted Bryan instead of Reigns in the main event at WM. Regardless of Bryan's actual injury situation, if WWE was concerned about his health/safety/ability to continue on, then there's no reason to put him in the Rumble at all, especially if you want Roman to eventually get over.

They could have even still put both guys in the WM main event against Lesnar even if Bryan's health was an issue. Bryan was in a ladder match that night after all. Just because you don't want the title on Bryan long term (for health or any other reasons) doesn't mean he can't be in the main event at WM and/or hold it for a short amount of time. Then you can move Bryan on to something else if he's still able to go health wise.

Not to mention Reigns' push into the main event scene was very forced and rushed, which although not related to Bryan, was an additional reason why fans shit on Reigns' initial main event push.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Feel like Reigns had decent momentum going until Summer Slam against Orton, then got hurt. The minute he came back they strapped a rocket to him and he's been mercilessly rejected since. In seemingly every town

[BigCrippyZ]

He's had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years. How many people in the TV industry can claim that? Keep swinging kid.

I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head, but I actually work daily in film, music and television and advise numerous execs, creators, producers and talent.

You said he is "the most successful person in his industry." He's not, at least not in the television production/creation side. In pro wrestling, sure, he's top dog, but like he says, he's not in the pro wrestling industry.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

He's quoted to telling Ted Turner he's in the entertainment business, and he's not the most successful person in entertainment.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Vince is in entertainment like Hugh Hefner is in art photography.

[Big Vic]

Would have just been the same as Cena-Brock was since Vince never planned that match to be anything but a brutal squash by Brock.

Even after Mania 30, Vince still wasn't a fan of Bryan as champ and was just going to feed him to Lesnar to boost Lesnar's Final Boss aura. Probably would have gone right back to the mid-card if it wasn't for his injury derailing those plans. The booking of Cena-Lesnar afterwards did imply Vince being upset at having to use Cena for the squash since Cena pretty much shrugged off any effects of it very quickly.
I was hoping we would get the match at No Mercy before Reigns vs Lesnar.

[The CyNick]

We're not talking about sports. We're talking about a scripted pro wrestling event.

It's shitting on the fans because after Bryan's return from injury, the fans clearly wanted Bryan instead of Reigns in the main event at WM. Regardless of Bryan's actual injury situation, if WWE was concerned about his health/safety/ability to continue on, then there's no reason to put him in the Rumble at all, especially if you want Roman to eventually get over.

They could have even still put both guys in the WM main event against Lesnar even if Bryan's health was an issue. Bryan was in a ladder match that night after all. Just because you don't want the title on Bryan long term (for health or any other reasons) doesn't mean he can't be in the main event at WM and/or hold it for a short amount of time. Then you can move Bryan on to something else if he's still able to go health wise.

Not to mention Reigns' push into the main event scene was very forced and rushed, which although not related to Bryan, was an additional reason why fans shit on Reigns' initial main event push.

I don't think you grasp the concept of investing television time in a performer you don't think will be able to physically hold up against the demands of being champion. It's hard to have discussions with people like you when that very simple idea is lost.

I'll try anyway, because I'm a good guy like that.

When WWE puts together their Mania plans months in advance of the show, they invest massive amounts of precious TV time to make people care one way or the other about the talents that were heavily featured on Mania. Going into Mania 30, they had spent months and months of TV time with Daniel Bryan constantly being held down by The Authority. By the time Mania rolled around, they had made Daniel a cult hero, and fans were salivating to see him win. Through that investment of time, they expected to use that payoff to have this newly minted mega star carry the company. Unfortunately for Bryan, the weight was too much for his frame, and he physically broke down under the pressure. Essentially all that time WWE spent making Daniel Bryan the face of the company was a waste.

Fast forward to the next year and now Daniel says he can come back, but WWE is now gun shy to go all the way with him. The internal discussions were we wasted all last year making this guy, shouldn't we wait to see if his body can handle the grind before reinvesting in him. They instead went with a guy who was an up and comer that fans were into, and had broad enough shoulders to carry the company. The WWE even tried to appease the Daniel Bryan fans by giving him a spotlight win at Mania in a big match, albeit not the world title.

Sure, they could have just put the world title on him for a month again, but that would have wasted TV time that could have been used to get over new acts on top that would carry the company for e coming years (ie Reigns and Rollins). As it would turn out, WWE would be proven right when Daniel had to forfeit the IC title. Thank God they didn't waste a full second year of Mania build on a guy that couldn't handle the job.

The fans that don't understand this and to this day booo Reigns because of it, are dumb, ignorant, but they will continue to be loyal customers no matter what, so who cares what they do anyway?

[The CyNick]

I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head, but I actually work daily in film, music and television and advise numerous execs, creators, producers and talent.

You said he is "the most successful person in his industry." He's not, at least not in the television production/creation side. In pro wrestling, sure, he's top dog, but like he says, he's not in the pro wrestling industry.

You can name ten episodic storyline driven shows that have been top ten in prime time cable for 20 plus years? Curious to see the list.

Also even if you do have a list, it's still impressive, and Vince would be considered very successful at producing content.

His industry is sports entertainment, for which he has been King for decades. He also competes in the broader entertainment industry, of which he's not the King, but he's very very successful at it.

[BigCrippyZ]

You can name ten episodic storyline driven shows that have been top ten in prime time cable for 20 plus years? Curious to see the list.

No, but per your original question (that you're now changing, i.e., running from like a bitch) I can name 10 people in the TV industry who have had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years.

Just for your own reference, here's your original claim:

He's had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years. How many people in the TV industry can claim that? Keep swinging kid.

Either you're an idiot who lacks comprehension skills or you're just a complete douchebag troll. Or maybe it's both. Yep, most likely both.

[BigCrippyZ]

His industry is sports entertainment, for which he has been King for decades. He also competes in the broader entertainment industry, of which he's not the King, but he's very very successful at it.

:lol:

"Sports entertainment" is not an industry. Television, film, music, entertainment, sports, pro wrestling, those are actual industries with multiple entities competing against one another. "Sports entertainment" is a phrase made up by Vince for two reasons: 1. an attempt to sidestep the fact that the pro wrestling industry has a stigma attached to it, and 2. Vince's inability to be acknowledged and included with the creative and business elites in the larger entertainment industry.

If you want to claim that Vince works in the pro wrestling or entertainment industries, that's fine with me. He's definitely not the most successful person in the entertainment industry though, as you so incorrectly and ignorantly claimed.

Sure, you can say he's the most successful person in the pro wrestling industry. The problem is, Vince desperation to be acknowledged and included with the creative and business elites in the entertainment industry, he's repeatedly claimed he's not in, and has no interest in, the pro wrestling industry.

Now Vince can claim "superiority" over the "sports entertainment" industry. The sad part is, much like a child, you're naive and ignorant enough that you actually fell for and believe the con he's been selling to you.

[The CyNick]

No, but per your original question (that you're now changing, i.e., running from like a bitch) I can name 10 people in the TV industry who have had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years.

Just for your own reference, here's your original claim:



Either you're an idiot who lacks comprehension skills or you're just a complete douchebag troll. Or maybe it's both. Yep, most likely both.

When talking about shows, clearly I was referring to similar shows, which are episodic in nature. You could say there are a bunch of soaps that have been around way longer than RAW or SDL, but they are not in prime time, so not really a fair comparison. I'm sure there are some news or sports programs that have been on for decades, but those are not episodic, so completely different beast. I would the closest show to Vince's success with RAW and SDL is The Simpsons. I would also throw SNL in there, even though it's not episodic, they still have to create new characters every week. Of course SNL is not in prime time and has very little competition in its timeslot.

Regardless of your blind hatred for Vince, anyone with a brain can recognize he's in elite company when it comes to success creating TV content.

As for sports entertainment vs pro wrestling that's really semantics from Vince, he wanted to rebrand his industry to differentiate himself from his competition and make them seem inferior. Regardless, it's all one industry, and Vince has ruled it pretty much from day one.

[The CyNick]

Now Vince can claim "superiority" over the "sports entertainment" industry. The sad part is, much like a child, you're naive and ignorant enough that you actually fell for and believe the con he's been selling to you.

Which con is that? That he rebranded his industry because he feels "pro wrestling" had a bad rap? He can call it the Vince's Oily Men in Tights" industry, we all know what it is. He is the King. Is you point that because he doesn't like the term pro wrestling, he can't be seen as the King of the industry?

As I said before, swing and a miss pal.

[The CyNick]

He's quoted to telling Ted Turner he's in the entertainment business, and he's not the most successful person in entertainment.

Sports entertainment (Vince's term for pro wrestling) is a subset of entertainment. Is he #1 in entertainment? No. Is he successful in the entertainment industry? Yes, very. He is #1 by a wide wife margin in his own industry which is sports entertainment/pro wrestling.

[BigCrippyZ]

Which con is that? That he rebranded his industry because he feels "pro wrestling" had a bad rap? He can call it the Vince's Oily Men in Tights" industry, we all know what it is. He is the King. Is you point that because he doesn't like the term pro wrestling, he can't be seen as the King of the industry?

As I said before, swing and a miss pal.

No, my point was that he may be #1 in pro wrestling sure, but that's not what you originally claimed. You stated he is "the most successful person in HIS industry". You then went on to imply that HIS industry was the television industry when you cited his "multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years" and asked "[h]ow many people in the TV industry can claim that?"

Now that I've challenged your claim and it's clear that he's not the most successful person in the TV industry and definitely not the general entertainment industry, now you're claiming HIS industry is the pro wrestling industry and/or "sports entertainment". You can't even keep your own argument straight. Then again, trolls rarely can/do.

Nevermind the fact that he has repeatedly denied working in pro wrestling and instead has repeatedly proclaimed his superiority in an industry ("sports entertainment") that doesn't actually exist and is nothing more than a phrase he's coined to make himself seem elite so he doesn't have to worry about competition from the actual entertainment industry and/or pro wrestling. You know, the two industry's he actually competes in, only one of which he's actually the leader in (but refuses to acknowledge,) and the other he's not as elite as he wants to be nor as elite as you originally claimed him to be.

The con he's run is that WWE has no competition or is not concerned with any competition from other industires, not from sports, other pro wrestling organizations or even others in the general entertainment industries because WWE is in the "sports entertainment" industry. The fact is, that's just not true and is essentially a con or lie to make Vince/WWE seem more superior than they actually are. Doesn't mean Vince isn't very successful, just not the "most successful person" in television or the enterainment industry as you originally claimed or implied.

[The CyNick]

No, my point was that he may be #1 in pro wrestling sure, but that's not what you originally claimed. You stated he is "the most successful person in HIS industry". You then went on to imply that HIS industry was the television industry when you cited his "multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years" and asked "[h]ow many people in the TV industry can claim that?"

Now that I've challenged your claim and it's clear that he's not the most successful person in the TV industry and definitely not the general entertainment industry, now you're claiming HIS industry is the pro wrestling industry and/or "sports entertainment". You can't even keep your own argument straight. Then again, trolls rarely can/do.

Nevermind the fact that he has repeatedly denied working in pro wrestling and instead has repeatedly proclaimed his superiority in an industry ("sports entertainment") that doesn't actually exist and is nothing more than a phrase he's coined to make himself seem elite so he doesn't have to worry about competition from the actual entertainment industry and/or pro wrestling. You know, the two industry's he actually competes in, only one of which he's actually the leader in (but refuses to acknowledge,) and the other he's not as elite as he wants to be nor as elite as you originally claimed him to be.

The con he's run is that WWE has no competition or is not concerned with any competition from other industires, not from sports, other pro wrestling organizations or even others in the general entertainment industries because WWE is in the "sports entertainment" industry. The fact is, that's just not true and is essentially a con or lie to make Vince/WWE seem more superior than they actually are. Doesn't mean Vince isn't very successful, just not the "most successful person" in television or the enterainment industry as you originally claimed or implied.

Nah dude, you just can't read.

The line I wrote about him being #1 in his industry was in reference to sports entertainment/pro wrestling.

In a separate post In response to you I mentioned he has had several shows in the top ten in ratings for 20 years, which few content producers can play claim to with the same show. I never once said that made him #1 in the television industry. You are attempting to claim that's my position, when I never said anything of the sort. I'm guessing the talents you advise these media companies about are all magicians, because that's some sweet slight of hand you're trying to pass over the rubes on here. Unfortunately for you, I'm much smarter than you, so I'm calling you on your BS. Your energy is likely low as well.

To clarify, he's #1 in pro wrestling/sports entertainment, and has been for decades. He's done excellent in television, not #1, but very very successful.

[BigCrippyZ]

:lol: You never once directly referenced or even implied you were referring to "sports entertainment" or pro wrestling when you claimed Vince is "the most successful person in his industry". I specifically asked you which industry you were referring to when you claimed he was the most successful person in it. Your response:

"He's had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years. How many people in the TV industry can claim that? Keep swinging kid."

The only reference to any industry by you was the TV industry.

Love the deflection and attacks on me though. Keep it up. It's mildly entertaining. Magicians... low energy... :lol: I am wheelchair bound more or less, so I probably am low energy in terms of my walking... :lol:

No magicians BTW, but I do rep a couple of comedians.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can't work out whether CyNick eats more shit or spits it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

http://www.glassgiant.com/law_and_order/law_and_order.php?t=1483997072&l1=VINCE&l2=McMAHON&l3=Television+Industry+%231&size=full

[The CyNick]

:lol: You never once directly referenced or even implied you were referring to "sports entertainment" or pro wrestling when you claimed Vince is "the most successful person in his industry". I specifically asked you which industry you were referring to when you claimed he was the most successful person in it. Your response:

"He's had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years. How many people in the TV industry can claim that? Keep swinging kid."

The only reference to any industry by you was the TV industry.

Love the deflection and attacks on me though. Keep it up. It's mildly entertaining. Magicians... low energy... :lol: I am wheelchair bound more or less, so I probably am low energy in terms of my walking... :lol:

No magicians BTW, but I do rep a couple of comedians.

I'm sure they are hilarious.

I thought it would be clear that when referring to Vince McMahon "his industry" would be pro wrestling/sports entertainment. I will try to spell things out clearer for you in the future.

People who can't walk can still be high energy. I don't discriminate against people because of any physical limitations.