Would you keep hiring "indie darlings"?

[Rollermacka]

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So the dirt sheets are "reporting" that Adam Cole is going to NXT, at this last set of NXT tapings, another former ROH champ showed up. With the recent return of McIntyre and Ohno, I have to ask, if you were in charge of talent in the WWE, would you keep hiring these "indie darlings"? Why or why not?

[#1-norm-fan]

Sure. Why not? Great workers will always have a purpose on the roster. It's when they get over-pushed to appease people who are still gonna watch if they're in the midcard anyway when things go wrong.

[Rollermacka]

Sure. Why not? Great workers will always have a purpose on the roster. It's when they get over-pushed to appease people who are still gonna watch if they're in the midcard anyway when things go wrong.

I guess the other side of that is, if you spend the money and time to train these guys like Bray Wyatt, Tyler Breeze, Sheamus, Big Cass, Enzo, Tye Dillinger... why oversaturate your show with even more guys and all your investments end up being a bust (Ryback, Adam Rose, Damien Sandow, King Barrett, Alex Riley, etc)

[Frank Drebin]

You can't over saturate with a wealth of talent. Some are going to bust, sure, and sometimes it's because they get caught up in the wash. That's not the fault of the wrestlers or the ones who decide who to sign.

[KIRA]

I guess the other side of that is, if you spend the money and time to train these guys like Bray Wyatt, Tyler Breeze, Sheamus, Big Cass, Enzo, Tye Dillinger... why oversaturate your show with even more guys and all your investments end up being a bust (Ryback, Adam Rose, Damien Sandow, King Barrett, Alex Riley, etc)

Aside from maybe Adam Rose Everyone of those guys had a peak the WWE couldve run with and decided not to.

A-ry: after he got tired of the Miz and attacked him.

Sandow:He had two.
1. Winning MITB
2.Mizdow

Wade Barrett:Nexus (BNB debatable)

Ryback: being given the World title match with CM Punk

[Bad News Gertner]

If it makes sense

[Fignuts]

Hell yeah! Every time an indie darling hits a triple flip senton, I can feel it in my plums.

[Rollermacka]

Aside from maybe Adam Rose Everyone of those guys had a peak the WWE couldve run with and decided not to.

A-ry: after he got tired of the Miz and attacked him.

Sandow:He had two.
1. Winning MITB
2.Mizdow

Wade Barrett:Nexus (BNB debatable)

Ryback: being given the World title match with CM Punk

My "point" I guess is that you can make a case that any of the guys I mentioned (currently on the roster or departed) could be "the face of a company". All of the guys mentioned have "what it takes" to be a star. Great look, in ring ability, the promo ability (all to different degrees) but it's hard for guys to stand out, when there are so many talented guys on the roster.

Hypothetically, if the main event scene was Ryback as a monster heel, Wade Barret as the "cocky heel" and the two babyfaces were Adam Rose and Cody Rhodes.... I think people would see that as a legitimate main event scene.

[Emperor Smeat]

Of course.

Right now its no different than Vince during the territorial days where he'd nab as many of the big name stars as possible regardless if his roster was already star studded. Vince kept going because he wanted the WWE to be seen as the place to go for wrestling in the US and to have all the attention instead of potential rivals.

In regards to homegrown talent, either the WWE needs to relook at its developmental system and/or rehaul Creative so those talent have better chances at succeeding in the long term.

[Outsider]

Yes.

Most of the 'stars' they try to create flop.

Bringing someone in who already has a following means they come into NXT already over, which makes the product more interesting and enjoyable for fans in attendance. Yes, it can be a challenge translating that to being over with casual fans but it is easier if you can give causal fans a reason to care about someone straight off the bat by hyping how popular they are with NXT fans and their indie achievements.

What they need to do is drop some of the dead weight, such as weightlifters and footballers who often don't end up doing anything interesting and rely on monster pushes. I'm aware there are exceptions to this rule, but there are plenty of examples of spots being taken up on the roster by less talented people.

However there is an arguement for not taking all the indy talent so you have names to bring in at a later date as well.

[Simple Fan]

Adam Cole Bay Bay

Yeah, with NXT being WWE's version of the indies it makes sense. With guys like KO and Balor who were big on the indies putting in a good word these guys, I dont see it stopping anytime soon. With the newd that KO was responsible for getting Mike Bennett in the door I'm sure he did the same for Adam Cole although his work speaks for itself.

[ClockShot]

I'm sorta torn on this.

It was big news when WWE swooped in and grabbed Shinsuke Nakamura, AJ Styles, Karl Anderson, and Luke Gallows all at once.

Obviously, Styles & Nakamura have...let's say....translated well since they arrived.

Gallows & Anderson, not so much. Even though we knew that they were a big, if not, the best tag team in New Japan. They've been reduced to a joke with a brief tag title reign since their arrival in WWE.

Call it creative or booking issues, call it just not working out well in WWE, or whatever excuse you want.

I honestly believe that with talent they sign WWE really needs to think if that talent will have an immediate future with the company? Or should they start on the farm?

[mitch_h]

Yes. It take more than just being able to do flips to become a big name indie talent, there are tons of flippy guys that go nowhere, the top indie guys are incredibly dedicated and hard working and you usually get some return on investment from them. You probably won't get a Rock, Austin, Cena from these guys but as others have stated most developmental guys are usually busts anyway.

Also, if you look at the post WWE careers of some of these recently released developmental guys it becomes harder to make the argument that they were sabotaged by creative. Ryback would rather complain and do podcasts than kill it in the indies or Japan, Sandow's post WWE stuff sucks and others are nowhere to be found, Cody is doing alright but nothing spectacular.

[Lock Jaw]

No.

I'd hire Rollermacka instead.

[ClockShot]

I still can't believe Cody is ROH champ this soon.

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah, ROH must be desperate

[Rollermacka]

In regards to homegrown talent, either the WWE needs to relook at its developmental system and/or rehaul Creative so those talent have better chances at succeeding in the long term.


Most of the 'stars' they try to create flop.

What they need to do is drop some of the dead weight, such as weightlifters and footballers who often don't end up doing anything interesting and rely on monster pushes. I'm aware there are exceptions to this rule, but there are plenty of examples of spots being taken up on the roster by less talented people.

However there is an arguement for not taking all the indy talent so you have names to bring in at a later date as well.

It kind of seem, it takes the former lifters or football players to use their size to get them "a look" by the audience and then they actually have a chance to get over in front of a crowd. You look at TM 61 or DIY, they are two teams who have incredible "indie credentials"...... but then you look at a team like AOP and they have had huge success in a short amount of time. One can argue that the reason they've had this success and gotten over how they have in NXT is because of their size.

[Tom Guycott]

Some of the problem WWE has had with signing so-called "indy darlings" is the fact that they seem to do so out of spite. They hire these guys, talented as they may be, and have absolutely zero plans for them ever... they just have them in a collection so that the name can't give someone else prominence. For this, I would go back to even CM Punk being in OVW... if they didn't "see it" with him, then why even hire the guy just to have him flounder there? Because he had built up a rep for himself, his name had some cred that was giving shine to places that weren't under the McMahon umbrella.

Some people, like Adam Cole, have been supposedly targeted for hire for quite awhile, but other guys, like say a Sami Callihan, just get kinda brought in and they don't really do shit with him. I won't even address the whole "get over in NXT/fuck off to oblivion after main roster callup" fuckery that happens far too often. Not this time. And it isn't just in-ring, they've been doing this as of late with announcers and such: bring people in so that ROH or Impact or whoever doesn't have them. That may not be the "official" reasoning given on a case by case contractual basis, but there is too much of a pattern over quite a period of time for it not to look suspect.

[Tom Guycott]

I still can't believe Cody is ROH champ this soon.

Yeah, ROH must be desperate

I think he deserves it... that dumbass chant notwithstanding (aside: I actually used to like it, when people used it where applicable and not chanting it at everyone who ever wins a title or gets an "unexpected" victory... kinda like "you still got it!" was cool when the crowd busted it out at Steamboat vs Jericho- because he did surprise everyone with working circles around some of the talent that were on the day to day roster in their primes- but chanting it at EVERYONE because they used to be there and have matches before? It's no longer special or even always accurate.).

He makes a decent heel to chase, raised his stock outside of (y indy titleholder), does something to set him apart from being just one of Omega's lackeys, furthers the whole "Bullet Club taking over wrestling" image, and gives the man an opportunity to show he can carry a company much like Christian got in TNImpact. I see no problem with King Cody (Rhodes) getting a rematch with Daniels, a likely title program with JL, and possibly some guy in future (I would say most likely Bobby Fish; possibly Dalton Castle) eventually capturing the crown from him to give the next full time ROH guy there awhile the rub.

[slik]

yeah collect them all @ WWE

[Nicky Fives]

Hire everybody that can get over, simple as that. Indy fans and WWE fans may not be the same, but there's not much risk on WWE's part to signing all these guys to (probably very similar) initial contracts for 1-2 years and see if something sparks. If something does, renew them and promote them to the main roster (Balor, Nakamura, et. al.) and if nothing sparks, release them or keep them in NXT to help put over the newest batch.....

[Rammsteinmad]

The indie darlings will probably flourish in WWE a lot better once Vince steps down (if he ever does).

[Bad News Gertner]

They all sorta blend together. What's the difference between Rodrick Strong or Adam Cole etc... All the same height, weight etc.. All boring as fuck. Nobody cares about workrate. They need entertaining characters/gimmicks.

[DAMN iNATOR]

No.

I'd hire Rollermacka instead.

The Next Big Thing, Paul Titan!

[Fignuts]

They all sorta blend together. What's the difference between Rodrick Strong or Adam Cole etc... All the same height, weight etc.. All boring as fuck. Nobody cares about workrate. They need entertaining characters/gimmicks.

I do love me some workrate, but even I can only get so invested in someone if they have a boring personality. I agree that there needs to be more characters in wrestling. Guys like Owens, Joe and AJ have proven that indie darling or not, if you carve out your own unique personality, you can get over.

But a guy like Roderick....I don't ever get hyped for him.

[Simple Fan]

Strong should have stayed in ROH in my opinion. I dont see him making it to the main roster. Adam Cole is a star though and WWE knows it. First and only 3 time ROH World Champion all before the age of 30. Onky 27 and coukd do big things in NXT. He's another one I'm not sure about on the main roster though.

[Rollermacka]

No.

I'd hire Rollermacka instead.

The Next Big Thing, Paul Titan!

Thanks, you guys. There's some new "developments" in Paul Titan news, some of the doors have kind of closed on me (it happens) but new opportunities have presented themselves to me and one of them I will share on here really soon ;)

[drave]

Always a supporter of your work man. Love it when you post your matches.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They're all blurring together in my mind. If it makes sense, bring someone in, but the idea that each of these signings is going to flourish into something amazing when you have so many guys trying to get through the door is a bit inane to me.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Strong should have stayed in ROH in my opinion. I dont see him making it to the main roster. Adam Cole is a star though and WWE knows it. First and only 3 time ROH World Champion all before the age of 30. Onky 27 and coukd do big things in NXT. He's another one I'm not sure about on the main roster though.

I haven't watched NXT in some time, but Strong constantly came off as a dude trying to have a good indy match just about every time I saw him. If they're going balls-in with this 205 Live thing, I can see him fitting in around there. Have him win the Cruiserweight Title from Neville and have Aries do a "you think you're better than me?" heel turn on him. Strong is probably better as a heel though. I dunno, it's tough -- I just find he hasn't gotten more interesting than that first time I saw him slap Angle on SmackDown. It's like he's whittled away at his personality.

Kyle O'Reilly is rumored. That guy is like a less charismatic Daniel Bryan. All I really see for him is heater to a dude with more personality. Maybe Adam Cole himself. Bobby Fish at least has a look to him and is intriguing because he's an older guy. I'd probably go with the Cole/O'Reilly/Fish faction, but I don't really see a way off NXT for them.

I've become more reluctant to say that anybody is obviously a star. Cole, included. When you take guys out of their smaller environments and plug them into the WWE one, it's surprising how vanilla they get. I think Cole is a good fit for NXT. I'd be keeping him there for a few years though as an identity player, so that you can move some other guys that might have a chance at doing other things to the main roster quicker.

[Tom Guycott]

They all sorta blend together. What's the difference between Rodrick Strong or Adam Cole etc... All the same height, weight etc.. All boring as fuck. Nobody cares about workrate. They need entertaining characters/gimmicks.

But it never helps if they just get a contract, job a couple of times on TV, and are never seen or heard from again. Even if they might have "something", what good is it if they never get a chance to showcase it? Most of the guys won't turn down the money, but then "creative has nothing for you" kicks in. Instead of potentially becoming a big deal elsewhere, they waste a couple of years of non-exposure for big money.

It would be like if a sports team - let's say football- hired a kid just so someone else won't have him, but he never gets to start. He barely even takes a snap, except to play special teams on an onside kick. Mind you, the kid has the potential to be the next Bo Jackson, but this team only has him on the roster so that he isn't playing against them. And they pay him well to do jack shit, so he isn't really complaining.

And your devil's advocacy for "lets bring back super-tall, juiced up bodybuilders" presents its own problem. It isn't so much that nobody cares about workrate- its more WWE wouldn't care if the guy is clumsy and wooden just so long as he "looks the shit", and thankfully they've gotten away from that. There have been too many "WOW THIS GUY LOOKS MENACING..." then after a match or two "Ugh, nevermind." They have operated under the assumption for too many years that guys who look, act, wrestle, and sell like Brock Lesnar are a dime a dozen and not the rare anomaly he is.

[mike adamle]

They already have WAY too many people on their roster as it is, do they really need to keep signing more? Before I kept hiring indy darlings I would drop all the dead weight off the roster.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hire everybody that can get over, simple as that. Indy fans and WWE fans may not be the same, but there's not much risk on WWE's part to signing all these guys to (probably very similar) initial contracts for 1-2 years and see if something sparks. If something does, renew them and promote them to the main roster (Balor, Nakamura, et. al.) and if nothing sparks, release them or keep them in NXT to help put over the newest batch.....

Yep.

A lot of Indy guys are generic and boring. But at the same time having a hand like Roddy Strong in NXT can teach certain guys the mechanics, so it doesn't hurt to have them around.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They all sorta blend together. What's the difference between Rodrick Strong or Adam Cole etc... All the same height, weight etc.. All boring as fuck. Nobody cares about workrate. They need entertaining characters/gimmicks.

Yeah you're not wrong but not much of what they do is entertaining.