Jim Cornette / Mick Foley

[DaveWadding]

And that means what exactly? The same could be said for just about any indy wrestler. He has a gimmick that works for him, the fans seem to not be tired of it yet so as long as he's making money, the fans are happy who gives a shit?

People go to be entertained... whether it's to be chased out of your seats because the heels are being chased through the crowds or laugh at the comedy act involving midgets, or talk shit to the heel or the face and get a reaction , people come to be entertained and in the end that is what counts.

Yeah, dude, but if Jim Cornette isn't entertained, how can anyone else be entertained?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Listen have to to do featherlight brother handshakes and no dickspots to not kill the business

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I wish I could kill businesses with my dick

[Ultra Mantis]

That's exactly what I'm asking.

Well in that case, the answer is no.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well in that case, the answer is no.

That's fair enough. I don't know what I would do in this particularly circumstance. I don't enforce my opinions onto others, so if they take jobs I wouldn't, I don't look down on them, but I have also refused work because I know a dude has a gripe with a friend of mine. So to each their own, I guess.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, dude, but if Jim Cornette isn't entertained, how can anyone else be entertained?

The people on the "pro-joke wrestling" bandwagon always have the weirdest arguments.

[mike adamle]

Says the guy who thinks everyone needs to ponder "what would Jim Cornette do?" before every decision. :roll:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Noid, I don't think anyone here is on the pro joke wrestling band wagon. We are just on the "these guys deserve the chance to make money" bandwagon.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Noid, I don't think anyone here is on the pro joke wrestling band wagon. We are just on the "these guys deserve the chance to make money" bandwagon.

No, DaveWadding and theocc or whatever their name is is definitely on the pro-joke wrestling bandwagon. You're talking about the usual frequenters of these boards.

They're not going the best way to make money.

[DaveWadding]

I'm on the "pro making fun of Noid for his ridiculous fucking opinions" bandwagon, to be completely honest.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Says the guy who thinks everyone needs to ponder "what would Jim Cornette do?" before every decision. :roll:

I don't normally respond to you, but this warrants it: I know you've got some bitter thing with me, and I couldn't give a fuck. You've proven in the thread about Mauro's mental illness that you are legitimately a terrible person. It also comes out in almost all of your posts, and how your jokes usually involve racism or something akin to it. Whatever -- a lot of people on the internet are trash, or pretend to be.

What personally offends me about this is that you...cannot...fucking...read. I get that you're not smart, and you cannot help that. I'd take a nice dumb person over a nasty smart one any day of the week. But dude -- try to focus on the words in front of your fucking face.

The situation I brought up could be applied to ANYBODY. Professional loyalty is actually a thing people have. So is personal loyalty. It's not as ridiculously a framed question as Dale pointed out. Love the guy, but he often projects and misconstrues for the sake of an argument. And they're fun arguments, so whatever. But you're not fun, and you're not worth conversing with. I'm shocked whenever you bring up a good point about something, and most of the time it's just you waiting for Big Daddy Dale to seemingly give you the okay to try and take lame shots at me, which half the time aren't even demonstable.

"Oh, Noid must have no friends." "Noid thinks too much." "Noid probably wants Jim Cornette to piss on him." Where is the fucking substance behind your shtick, fool? See, I've seen people on these forums tear you apart because of the content you bring to the table. The only thing is, you can't edit that side of yourself in order to rebut, because you don't have the intellect or dexterity.

Fuck off, mike adamle. You're a horrible person. That won't bother me so much over the internet when you learn to fucking read and comprehend, you fucking novice human.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm on the "pro making fun of Noid for his ridiculous fucking opinions" bandwagon, to be completely honest.

You do a slightly better job than adamle, but not by much. You used to put more effort in or make better points. Now it's a bit vapid and lacking. Dale is the only one who does an anywhere near decent job of that.

[mike adamle]

Do you really think Jim Cornette would approve of that comment? And when did I ever accuse you of wanting Jim Cornette to piss on you? I mean now I know it's a fantasy of yours, but I never brought that up. :lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think it says something about the issues of the people commenting when they have to go to such broad and in-substantive places in order to come up with anything though. And going back through, because I don't even remember you making a point, the shot you took at me was "This is the worst post you have ever written. BY FAR." That's a really week way of "making fun." Firstly, it implies that it's far worse than anything I've said, which means that the other stuff was good, therefore implying a scale of quality. Secondly, you don't really have the fortitude in your to explain why.

I know I'm asking trolls to discuss their trolling, which is a zero-sum game, but remember the days when trolls used to be able to genuinely stir shit, and it wasn't just "lol i'm trolling," like the intended action itself was the point, and not the intended consequence?

I'm very disappointed by the internet these days. Social media is where all the good bait is, I guess. You guys are pretty fucking tame, haha.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Do you really think Jim Cornette would approve of that comment? And when did I ever accuse you of wanting Jim Cornette to piss on you? I mean now I know it's a fantasy of yours, but I never brought that up. :lol:

The "why'd you even bring that up?" retort to a hypothetical attribution of point, followed by the act like you made the joke. The intellect of mike adamle, ladies and gentleman. Freud tried making that joke almost a century ago, and no one laughed then. Yes, that is a "this decade called, they want their mike adamle back" line, but you're not worth creamier stuff.

[#1-norm-fan]

Hopefully you have as much success ridding TPWW of these trolls as I did Norman Smiley and The CyNick.

[mike adamle]

Coming from someone that has a Jim Cornette piss fetish :lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

God, it doesn't feel good to shoot down. :-\

[DaveWadding]

I think it says something about the issues of the people commenting when they have to go to such broad and in-substantive places in order to come up with anything though. And going back through, because I don't even remember you making a point, the shot you took at me was "This is the worst post you have ever written. BY FAR." That's a really week way of "making fun." Firstly, it implies that it's far worse than anything I've said, which means that the other stuff was good, therefore implying a scale of quality. Secondly, you don't really have the fortitude in your to explain why.

I know I'm asking trolls to discuss their trolling, which is a zero-sum game, but remember the days when trolls used to be able to genuinely stir shit, and it wasn't just "lol i'm trolling," like the intended action itself was the point, and not the intended consequence?

I'm very disappointed by the internet these days. Social media is where all the good bait is, I guess. You guys are pretty fucking tame, haha.

I'm not trolling you, I'm telling you your opinion sucks because it sucks (and you implied as much when you backed off by saying it was "just a thought experiment") because you don't have the gumption to actually defend your own shitty point.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hopefully you have as much success ridding TPWW of these trolls as I did Norman Smiley and The CyNick.

:lol:

What actually happening with CyNick? Was there some sort of big blow-off, or did he just get weary of you constantly undercutting his attempts to work people?

Lol, remember when people were like "let him talk -- I don't think he's actually trolling" and tried to turn the pitchfork against you because you were like "guys, look at this evidence...". Good times. I won't say I miss it, because I am glad he is gone, but it's nice to know the True American Hero stood tall again.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm not trolling you, I'm telling you your opinion sucks because it sucks (and you implied as much when you backed off by saying it was "just a thought experiment") because you don't have the gumption to actually defend your own shitty point.

I think your opinion sucks because it sucks too. Great discourse, Dave. Dale -- this is what someone who gets pissed off because you like something looks like. There's no attempt to defend some sort of objective metric here -- this is just a dude with a thorn in side, because he doesn't like my tone or whatever, making gripe because he can.

I was never particularly one-sided on the issue, because I hadn't made up my mind -- I was discussing it. That's what a discussion board was for. It got jumped on by people who took it to be an exaltation of Jim Cornette, possibly because of my pass biases, but I'm not afraid to defend my points, hombre. Let's have this out, if you can muster up the gumption.

I've fallen on the point where if I was Mick, I wouldn't take the gig. I think it's dumb, shitty, counterproductive, inane and Ryan's disposition towards people I like is smug and generally shitty. Didn't he accuse Jim Cornette of homophobia because he didn't like men being booked to touch his dick for comedy? I'm sure the goobers go along with it, but there's something creepy about a promoter that does this. And he's done it with women too, who again, I'm sure are willing, but it's just something I'd stay away from if I were promoting.

So yeah, I'd rather take another unnecessary bump for someone else. I wouldn't be caught dead there. Mick Foley isn't a starving artist, so he doesn't really have that excuse. But I guess he's of a different opinion, and that's his business. I'm just going to consider anything post 2004 in his career "non-canon."

That being said, as I said, I doubted Cornette will be personally offended by Foley doing it, and he wasn't. It's the trend of the product. It's just frustratingly shit, and it's starting to dampen my general love of even wrestling, because the goofy Raw/Smackdown shit is now leaking over into the independents.

[Fignuts]

Regardless of Noid's stance on comedy wrestling, I think we can all agree that mike adamle is a terrible person and an awful poster.

[Mr. Nerfect]

God, Joey Ryan is such a piece of shit, haha. He actually thinks this is money too. This has to be the most abstract path to finding some sort of sustainable business model that supplies a demand that I've ever seen. He would honestly be better off just going into straight-up porn. Because then people would actually watch and click on shit and potentially pay. This "at least people are talking about me" goofy stuff is like (and I hate to use dead memes):

Step 1: Get people to touch your dick
Step 2: Rub your hands vigorously as they argue
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit

EDIT: I take this back if he actually lives in a mansion and donates hundreds of thousands of dollars to kiddies in need. But for some reason I get the impression that he is just "making a living," yet celebrates it like he is some sort of Greek god. I know part of the job is selling yourself, but it's a bit annoying he keeps that part alive and forgets the others. There are ways to "make a living" that don't involve you doing what you are doing to art.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Regardless of Noid's stance on comedy wrestling, I think we can all agree that mike adamle is a terrible person and an awful poster.

Hear, hear.

[DaveWadding]

Regardless of Noid's stance on comedy wrestling, I think we can all agree that mike adamle is a terrible person and an awful poster.

Hatred of mike adamle unites TPWW

[Mr. Nerfect]

The world.*

[Fignuts]

I don't even understand the point of the argument. It's not like comedy wrestling is "taking over" or anything. In big promotions its usually one or two guys who do it in the mid card, and often acts as a good pallette cleanser. And even then it's got a basis in reality, like yanos stuff. As far as the really ridiculous stuff goes, its in small promotions like DDT and Chikara for niche audiences that appreciate it. It's not being forced on anyone. You have to go looking for it just to see it.

And if you can't seperate a wrestler competing seriously, from something he did for a niche audience 10 years ago, that's youf problem, not his.

[Destor]

Why is this thread still a thing

[mike adamle]

Hatred of mike adamle unites TPWW

You may be forgetting I'm the leader of Team Gorm.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hopefully you have as much success ridding TPWW of these trolls as I did Norman Smiley and The CyNick.

you and I both know CyNick comes and goes as he pleases. I'll give you Smiley though. You earned that in your mono-e-mono fist fight.

[mike adamle]

I think your opinion sucks because it sucks too. Great discourse, Dave. Dale -- this is what someone who gets pissed off because you like something looks like. There's no attempt to defend some sort of objective metric here -- this is just a dude with a thorn in side, because he doesn't like my tone or whatever, making gripe because he can.

I was never particularly one-sided on the issue, because I hadn't made up my mind -- I was discussing it. That's what a discussion board was for. It got jumped on by people who took it to be an exaltation of Jim Cornette, possibly because of my pass biases, but I'm not afraid to defend my points, hombre. Let's have this out, if you can muster up the gumption.

I've fallen on the point where if I was Mick, I wouldn't take the gig. I think it's dumb, shitty, counterproductive, inane and Ryan's disposition towards people I like is smug and generally shitty. Didn't he accuse Jim Cornette of homophobia because he didn't like men being booked to touch his dick for comedy? I'm sure the goobers go along with it, but there's something creepy about a promoter that does this. And he's done it with women too, who again, I'm sure are willing, but it's just something I'd stay away from if I were promoting.

So yeah, I'd rather take another unnecessary bump for someone else. I wouldn't be caught dead there. Mick Foley isn't a starving artist, so he doesn't really have that excuse. But I guess he's of a different opinion, and that's his business. I'm just going to consider anything post 2004 in his career "non-canon."

That being said, as I said, I doubted Cornette will be personally offended by Foley doing it, and he wasn't. It's the trend of the product. It's just frustratingly shit, and it's starting to dampen my general love of even wrestling, because the goofy Raw/Smackdown shit is now leaking over into the independents.

Why is it so sad that a guy that pulled a sock out of the crotch of his pants for years is doing a crotch spot here? And then putting over the talent in the spot? The crowd loved it, are they wrong for that too? Was Santino and the cobra not the same exact spot but not with his dick? Was that sad and pathetic too? Is there anything in wrestling you actually do like because you seem to have a problem with everything.

[Lock Jaw]

Imagine if Santino's Cobra HAD been his dick.

I bet he would have won that Royal Rumble for sure.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Noid is a baby sometimes. It's really what it comes down to. The quicker we accept it, the better.

[Evil Vito]

I won't hear another bad word about dick spots in wrestling. Let's hear from WWE's newest big acquisition.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CU8F_vLDwDA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[#BROKEN Hasney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My dick is now Cryme Tyme verified. Backstage with <a href="https://twitter.com/Jtg1284">@Jtg1284</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/Shadbeast">@Shadbeast</a> on Saturday at <a href="https://twitter.com/WWAISNOW">@WWAISNOW</a> in Owensboro, KY. <a href="https://t.co/iFRt7eyhUZ">pic.twitter.com/iFRt7eyhUZ</a></p>&mdash; Joey Ryan (@JoeyRyanOnline) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeyRyanOnline/status/897653379173937152">16 August 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Ultra Mantis]

That's fair enough. I don't know what I would do in this particularly circumstance. I don't enforce my opinions onto others, so if they take jobs I wouldn't, I don't look down on them, but I have also refused work because I know a dude has a gripe with a friend of mine. So to each their own, I guess.

Cornette doesn't like the dick spot. Foley likes the dick spot. Therefore why wouldn't Mick Foley do the dick spot?

[Vastardikai]

I want to see Joey Ryan vs.Minoru Suzuki. Because...

1. Suzuki does do comedy matches. But doesn't believe in traditional collar and elbows as they look "fake." Hence all the hand fighting for a couple second lockup.

2. How would you suggest this spot to him and live?

3. I am afraid to let Suzuki near my arms. I personally wouldn't want his hand on my dick.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Did Jim Cornette think of anyone in the wrestling business before joining an actual joke of a promotion?

[James Steele]

So...GFW is trying to use the popularity of wrestling podcasts to improve ratings? MLW (who is over the Cornette and Prichard podcasts) is hosting a one-night-only show next month. GFW vs MLW coming soon? Podcast Wars turned from a shoot to a work? Jim Cornette vs Vince Russo in SIX SIDES OF STEEL AT BOUND FOR GLORY?!?!?!?!

I called this in a Cornette thread awhile back. Freakin' marks. :roll:


I'm being somewhat facetious, btw.

[Bad News Gertner]

HHH only got where he is due to Steph's pussy and he's a mid carder without her

[James Steele]

HHH only got where he is due to Steph's pussy and he's a mid carder without her

70s and early 80s WWF fucking sucks, and Triple H was WWE Champion before he even dated Stephanie.

[Mr. Nerfect]

HHH fucking sucked in 1999. Rock and Foley gave him capital and he's been cashing it in as an over-hyped mid-carder ever since. Chris Benoit drew as much on PPV as him in 2000.

[#1-norm-fan]

HHH only got where he is due to Steph's pussy and he's a mid carder without her

That's just not true.

... Sucking HBK's dick had something to do with it, too.

[James Steele]

HHH fucking sucked in 1999. Rock and Foley gave him capital and he's been cashing it in as an over-hyped mid-carder ever since. Chris Benoit drew as much on PPV as him in 2000.

:roll:

I didn't realize it was still 2005.

[James Steele]

That's just not true.

... Sucking HBK's dick had something to do with it, too.

https://media.giphy.com/media/lgF69kad2I1qg/giphy.gif

http://image.blingee.com/images15/content/output/000/000/000/318/109677656_1292887.gif

[Mr. Nerfect]

:roll:

I didn't realize it was still 2005.

Did numbers change?

[James Steele]

Did numbers change?

Was Triple H not still in marquee matches on those same PPVs as Chris Benoit? Were Benoit's numbers in 2004 as good as HHH's from 02-03? HHH's numbers from 04-05 and the rise of Batista were pretty good. Business seemed to dip when Triple H quit being a full time performer. Triple H headlined the single biggest house in WWE history. There can be a lot of arguments against Triple H, but that Benoit was a bigger draw is quite a shitty one to pick.

Also, one of them is a murderer who almost destroyed the wrestling business.

[Bad News Gertner]

JBL was a better draw than that rating vacuum HHH. Turned Vince from a Billionaire to a Millionaire

[mike adamle]

HHH fucking sucked in 1999. Rock and Foley gave him capital and he's been cashing it in as an over-hyped mid-carder ever since. Chris Benoit drew as much on PPV as him in 2000.

One more thing Noid doesn't like. Shocking,:roll:

[James Steele]

Why is Mike Adamle so sad in your avi, mike adamle? He get addicted to the crack?

[James Steele]

JBL was a better draw than that rating vacuum HHH. Turned Vince from a Billionaire to a Millionaire

Bigger draw than Bob Backlund.

[Tom Guycott]

Love how this thread went from Cornette not liking "the dick spot" to how mediocre Triple H is.

[Juan]

Why is Mike Adamle so sad in your avi, mike adamle? He get addicted to the crack?

I think it's from a video where he talks about having dementia

[Juan]

Love how this thread went from Cornette not liking "the dick spot" to how mediocre Triple H is.

Trollin' ain't easy

[James Steele]

I think it's from a video where he talks about having dementia

Damn. :'(

[James Steele]

Trollin' ain't easy

When did Noid make a heel turn? He was a Sami Zayn/Seinfeld annoying but lovable face for years.

[Fignuts]

When did Noid make a heel turn? He was a Sami Zayn/Seinfeld annoying but lovable face for years.

He started hating literally everything.

[Sixx]

All this talk of Young Bucks convinced me to watch a match of theirs. I don't think they're bad, but the abuse of superkicks and their looks and smiles are awful.

(watch their match against Hardys from something called HOH)

[Bad News Gertner]

HHH cost the company two T.V deals due to ratings sagging while he was champ: the first USA deal and Spike TV

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

According to HHH he is the reason for the attitude era's success, and only him. Nobody else.

[Vastardikai]

All this talk of Young Bucks convinced me to watch a match of theirs. I don't think they're bad, but the abuse of superkicks and their looks and smiles are awful.

(watch their match against Hardys from something called HOH)

The Bucks never heard of the phrase "Less is More." Then again, they're marks who wear tights.

Cornette's bridge too far was super kicking a kid. Mine was when one of them threw down a guy from a tombstone because the other half of the Meltzer Driver was broken up.

That said, there is some good stuff from them, you just have to dig through a mountain of shit to get to the gems. I saw them win a 4 corner tag match with "More Bang for your Buck." I had seen three sequences very similar to it that didn't lead to a finish. This one did, and I was like "Wait, that's it?"

[#1-norm-fan]

Was Santino and the cobra not the same exact spot but not with his dick?

Wait... I missed this. One is an actual strike to the throat and the other is a guy with superhuman strength in his dick. How are you even comparing these two things? To not have a problem with it is one thing but let's not act like it's remotely the same thing much less "the exact same thing" as other silly wrestling moves. lol

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol remember when pretty much the entire Raw roster in 2004 wanted to move to Smackdown to get away from HHH

[mike adamle]

Wait... I missed this. One is an actual strike to the throat and the other is a guy with superhuman strength in his dick. How are you even comparing these two things? To not have a problem with it is one thing but let's not act like it's remotely the same thing much less "the exact same thing" as other silly wrestling moves. lol

It was a strike to the middle of the shoulder. And it only worked after he put the sock puppet on his hand. So a deadly strike to the shoulder via sock puppet isn't comparable to a deadly grip via dick? It's the same "you know it's fake but it's supposed to be funny" shtick.

[mike adamle]

And let's not forget how Santino Marella almost won the Elimination Chamber and World Title from Daniel Bryan via the cobra. I don't remember anyone having a problem with it either.

[#1-norm-fan]

He was doing the move before the sock puppet. And even if it was closer to the shoulder than to the throat, it was an actual strike to someone's body as opposed to A DICK WITH MAGICAL POWERS. lol It's not comparable.

[#1-norm-fan]

If someone hits you with their hand really hard in the throat/shoulder/chest/whatever, it's at least going to hurt. If you grab someone's cock, their cock is not gonna do any damage much less grab your hand back, twist your arm and then throw you around, FFS.

[mike adamle]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BLg2ZxbgjL8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yeah looks really painful. (Sarcasm.) It's exactly what I said it was with or without the sock. He still has the set up for it that screams "you know this is fake but laugh with me here." Just like the Joey Ryan dick spot.

[#1-norm-fan]

A video of him botching the move and missing the guy does not make a strike to the body "the same spot" as a guy throwing dudes around with his dick. Come on, man. lol

[#1-norm-fan]

If you wanna compare the fakeness of the two, at least go with the time where he was gonna hit Khali with it but Khali did the snake charmer thing to stop it. I mean... you can still explain that away with the fact that the Santino character was borderline retarded. But at least that would be a little better of a discussion than a strike to the body being the same as a guy with magic powers in his dick.

[Ultra Mantis]

If you wanna compare the fakeness of the two, at least go with the time where he was gonna hit Khali with it but Khali did the snake charmer thing to stop it.

I believe that was actually current super serial legit world champion MEGASTAR OVERBOY Mahal running snake charming interference to protect the vocal chords of the lead singer of his band that never played a song.

Actual career highlight for Jinder tbh, I think that's where he peaked.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He started hating literally everything.

Yes. Literally.

[mike adamle]

He wasn't wrong.

[Sixx]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BLg2ZxbgjL8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yeah looks really painful. (Sarcasm.) It's exactly what I said it was with or without the sock. He still has the set up for it that screams "you know this is fake but laugh with me here." Just like the Joey Ryan dick spot.

what in the fuck did i just watch? THAT was his finisher?

[Mr. Nerfect]

It doesn't surprise that adamle doesn't know the meaning of the word "literally." What surprises me is that he has managed to not fall down and get stuck somewhere.

[mike adamle]

It doesn't surprise that adamle doesn't know the meaning of the word "literally." What surprises me is that he has managed to not fall down and get stuck somewhere.

Says the guy from the country that can't even figure out it's own place on a map. :rofl:

[Mr. Nerfect]

:wtf:

[Moose Knuckle]

I really don't see the problem with Santino's cobra or Joey Ryan's dongstyle. Both are silly but so is pro wrestling as a whole. If you can't have fun with either of those can you have fun with anything in wrestling?

[Lock Jaw]

Watching that vid reminded me how great Santino's theme song was........

[mike adamle]

I really don't see the problem with Santino's cobra or Joey Ryan's dongstyle. Both are silly but so is pro wrestling as a whole. If you can't have fun with either of those can you have fun with anything in wrestling?

This is a very good point.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I really don't see the problem with Santino's cobra or Joey Ryan's dongstyle. Both are silly but so is pro wrestling as a whole. If you can't have fun with either of those can you have fun with anything in wrestling?

It's been kind of explained by people, but the attitude that "pro wrestling is silly" seeps into the presentation, and that seeps into the perception. People find it hard to really develop an affinity for silly stuff from the get-go -- they already have silly stuff in their lives, by and large.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is far more likely you will attract people with a dramatic and engaging product with stakes. That is your goal as a promoter -- to put as many asses in seats as possible. I'd wager a bet that most of the people who like this comedy stuff were already fans of wrestling before they started watching it. This is a problem when it comes to growing -- which wrestling arguably needs to do since it is in a low patch right now.

[Ultra Mantis]

The thing is, if you like your wrestling to be dramatic, immersive, believable and well written in 2017 then Joey Ryan flipping people with his penis is the least of your problems.

[#1-norm-fan]

Noid's right about dramatic wrestling, at its core, being able to draw people in and comedy wrestling not. I just don't think Joey Ryan is significant enough to ruin shit. I don't even consider what he does wrestling. It's more like just an embarrassingly bad improv comedy show for the easily amused. Good for them I guess. It's not about to headline WrestleMania or anything though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, I agree with both of those points. Joey Ryan is insignificant. I think I agree with that earlier when Destor said it was simply symptomatic. I just don't appreciate it as wrestling, comedy or art. I'd prefer indy wrestler to provide what WWE is lacking, honestly -- not mimicking it.

[Ultra Mantis]

Stuff like House of Horrors, Punjabi Prison and WWE Champion MEGASTAR OVERBOY Mahal is much more impactful on wrestling looking like shit imo. Ryan is a popular indy act and fans that attend those shows pop for it, it's whatever. How do you feel about Toru Yano?

[mike adamle]

It's been kind of explained by people, but the attitude that "pro wrestling is silly" seeps into the presentation, and that seeps into the perception. People find it hard to really develop an affinity for silly stuff from the get-go -- they already have silly stuff in their lives, by and large.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is far more likely you will attract people with a dramatic and engaging product with stakes. That is your goal as a promoter -- to put as many asses in seats as possible. I'd wager a bet that most of the people who like this comedy stuff were already fans of wrestling before they started watching it. This is a problem when it comes to growing -- which wrestling arguably needs to do since it is in a low patch right now.

So the reason you don't like Joey Ryan's dongstyle is because you don't think other people will like it?

Was wrestling in a low patch when Mick Foley was pulling Mr. Socko out of his pants?

[Mr. Nerfect]

So the reason you don't like Joey Ryan's dongstyle is because you don't think other people will like it?

Was wrestling in a low patch when Mick Foley was pulling Mr. Socko out of his pants?

What? No. Stop putting words into people's mouths -- it's poor form. I also don't get your second point. You might as well have said "Oh, so you don't like Michael Bay movies? I guess you don't like blowjobs, music and ice-cream either."

[Mr. Nerfect]

Stuff like House of Horrors, Punjabi Prison and WWE Champion MEGASTAR OVERBOY Mahal is much more impactful on wrestling looking like shit imo. Ryan is a popular indy act and fans that attend those shows pop for it, it's whatever. How do you feel about Toru Yano?

Yeah, of course it is. That doesn't make what Ryan is doing good. I honestly haven't seen that much of Yano. From what I have seen, he's not really my cup of tea, but I think of him more as a "drunken style" wrestler, if that makes sense? He uses his goofiness to get his opponents on edge and play down how threatening he is. If that's a misread, then fuck him, because it will make him harder for me to enjoy if I ever do get hardcore into Japan, haha.

Swinging someone around by your supernaturally strong dick is not the same as being unassuming. To me anyway. I guess you can call your apples oranges if you want.

[Destor]

Yano is masterfully done. Harms no one's credibility and everything has a logic. Even if its over top it isnt magical.

[#1-norm-fan]

Only Yano match I've seen was his G1 match against Michael Elgin and it was perfectly fine.

[mike adamle]

What? No. Stop putting words into people's mouths -- it's poor form. I also don't get your second point. You might as well have said "Oh, so you don't like Michael Bay movies? I guess you don't like blowjobs, music and ice-cream either."

Naw that would make no sense if I said that. You're just trying to dodge what I said because it made perfect sense and you don't want to admit it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Very sad and childish.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Only Yano match I've seen was his G1 match against Michael Elgin and it was perfectly fine.

If you're ever bored and have 10 minutes to spare, watch the Yano V Omega from the G1 too. Omegas background in doing comedy spots works great in the match.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Honestly heres where cornette is full of shit. He says guys like Ryan and Omega shouldnt be in the business blah blah blah but Vince is okay even tho he shits on the business far worse (i kno he isnt a HUGE fan of Vinces but never does he forsake vince the same way)

Sid used to fake injuries to play softball but Corny doesnt bury him nearly as bad as omega for the ankle email.

Its just nonsense from Cornette.

[#1-norm-fan]

He respects what Vince did as a businessman to make his empire and doesn't respect anything that Ryan or Omega has done. Where's the nonsense come in?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You cant have it both ways. Omega busts his ass and is one of the best wrestlers in the world. But according to Cornette it doesnt matter what he does he wrestled a child so fuck that guy. But vince built an empire so he can make a mockery of wrestling pretty much daily with his horse shit product.

What about Sid? Why does he get away with faking injuries to play baseball. Likely cuz they are friends.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't think Cornette has ever excused Vince making a mockery of wrestling. He talks shit about it constantly.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But yet, he won't ever say "VINCE SHOULD NEVER BE IN THE BUSINESS WHAT A PIECE OF FUCKING GARBAGE"

As I said, I know he's not Vince's biggest fan, but his hate for Omega is retarded.

FTR I fucking love Jim Cornette, he's one of the true beauties of wrestling. But he's just ridiculous sometimes.

[#1-norm-fan]

As far as Sid, I've also heard Cornette talk about how he was a guy who drew solely on his size. I don't know anything about this fake injury stuff.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol Sid's love for softball season is legendary.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Corny loved Sid's look "You couldn't draw a guy to look like that!" hated Spivey though

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And he called Sid out for the fake injuries and softball season but only in passing. Never with the same vitriol.

I'm just saying if he's going to be so vehement about certain things I'd like to see some consistency.

[#1-norm-fan]

Listen, I also think his hate for Omega is ridiculous. I don't think the way he expresses his feelings toward people have to match completely though. He's talked enough shit about Vince and what wrestling has become under his watch that I think we can infer that he thinks wrestling would have been better without him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Listen Fan I just have higher standards than you, okay.

[#1-norm-fan]

Do you really think he's held back on Vince any feelings he's had for Omega for some reason?

[#1-norm-fan]

What reason do you think he may be more lenient on Vince than on Omega?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's more like... how does he hate Omega SO MUCH, but he doesn't really hate Vince, just isn't his biggest fan.

Like he outright says Omega doesn't deserve to be in wrestling. I've never heard him say that about Vince. I mean we can infer he's not huge on Vince, but he doesn't come with the same vehemence. I just don't get how he hates Omega that much, but Vince he doesn't agree with.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I dunno with Vince it's always that deep down hopes he gets hired in some way down the road. Maybe in developmental again, who knows? You know how these fucking carnies are.

[#1-norm-fan]

Why do people talk more shit about Trump nowadays than they do Hitler?

One is a current point of contention and the other isn't.

He's spent years talking shit about Vince and the guys he's surrounded himself with. It's all old news. Omega is "now". Also, he's put more blame on the guys Vince surrounds himself with than Vince. Omega doesn't have that luxury.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Vince is as relevant as he's ever been no?

[#1-norm-fan]

The discussion is old though. It's not like Vince being out of touch is new news. The shit Cornette hates about WWE has been going on for decades. Omega is a new fad.

[#1-norm-fan]

It's quite possible that if you actually brought the exact point up Cornette would say "Vince also should never have been accepted into the business". It's not like he's shied away from the idea.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I've heard Meltzer present it to him when arguing about Omega and Cornette skirted the issue. Though, old softball Dave didn't push it any further.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yano is masterfully done. Harms no one's credibility and everything has a logic. Even if its over top it isnt magical.

This was my general sentiment from what I'd gathered. :y:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Naw that would make no sense if I said that. You're just trying to dodge what I said because it made perfect sense and you don't want to admit it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Very sad and childish.

How is a throat strike the same as a magic dick?

[Destor]

Throat strike with a magic dick sounds like something RP would be in to

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't think Cornette has ever excused Vince making a mockery of wrestling. He talks shit about it constantly.

Yeah, basically this. People get blinders up when they talk about Cornette. Just look at the replies you get from people who immediately go to the false "old man yelling at clouds" memes, when what Cornette is really doing is calling for logic.

I think his spiels against Omega, whilst they are fun, are very harsh. Omega is overrated and does seem to be a bit of a dolt, frankly, but if you black-balled everybody he does dumb stuff, we'd have Xavier Woods taken out for the trust fall, Mick Foley taken out for the dick flip (although that might be for the best at this point), Shawn Michaels for the Curtain Call (HHH wouldn't be a loss), etc.

I think Cornette directly attributes the death of wrestling (and keep in mind he is speaking in hyperbolic terms, you idiots who would jump on this and be like "well, why does the WWE still even exist then?") to Vince McMahon's responses to the steroid scandal in the 90s -- claiming to be Disney and put smiles on faces. This idea that he exonerates Vince yet would punish Omega is a bit of a false assertion.

A better comparison would be Pete Dunne. Corny loves his work, yet he does dumb video game shit. He's probably just unaware of that though, and would blast Dunne for that, if it's as goofy as Omega's (if it's just dressing up or presenting that aesthetic, that's different to actually trying to do hadoukens and shit). Or Jay Lethal -- Cornette loves him now, but Black Machismo was pretty dumb. That being said, it was Jay Lethal putting on an act, and not so much "OMG! This act is real!"

I dunno, I think the accusations of hypocrisy are exaggerated conveniences for those who would try to circumvent Corny's actual points. And, as I've said in the past, it seems like members of the IWC actually have problems wrapping their head around it. A few people might get insulted by this, but I think he's just generally smarter than most people. Not even in a wrestling sense, but in a general intellect kind of way. I don't subscribe to all his views, but his logical processing is just on a level that sends people who disagree with him, usually, into spirals of illogical straw-men and emotional rambling.

I think that's part of the reason I love the man so much. He usually proves his subject a fool. Joey Ryan retorted to calling Cornette a homophobe (Cornette's pretty left-wing), Kenny King responded with homophobia. Omega's been the classiest of the lot and has actually tried to take a moral high road.

TL;DR: Cornette is pretty much right about everything, you dummies. Stop resorting to straw-men because he makes your indy darlings butt-hurt. He is too extreme on Omega though, and that gives his detractors ample room to do their "Look what an asshole he is!" thing, as if that somehow discredits his points.

[Ultra Mantis]

Pete Dunne's video game promotion is a billion times more ridiculous than anything Kenny Omega has ever done. Cornette would be calling for him to be hung drawn and quartered if he knew about it and that's the problem with Jim, he thinks his personally precieved negatives means fuck the positives and calls for a guy to be murdered for disrespecting "his" wrestling business. Comparing practicing comedy wrestling to being a practicing Nazi is an absolutely braindead assessment.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Oh man, when their Nintendo GameCube exploded and Tyler Bate and Pete Dunne swapped bodies. What a time to be alive.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think his spiels against Omega, whilst they are fun, are very harsh. Omega is overrated and does seem to be a bit of a dolt, frankly, but if you black-balled everybody he does dumb stuff, we'd have Xavier Woods taken out for the trust fall, Mick Foley taken out for the dick flip (although that might be for the best at this point), Shawn Michaels for the Curtain Call (HHH wouldn't be a loss), etc.


TL;DR: Cornette is pretty much right about everything, you dummies. Stop resorting to straw-men because he makes your indy darlings butt-hurt. He is too extreme on Omega though, and that gives his detractors ample room to do their "Look what an asshole he is!" thing, as if that somehow discredits his points.

First of all, there's nothing you can say to prove to me Omega is over-rated.

He is one hell of a fucking worker. The problem is, nowadays, people LOVE to be contrarian to the "indy darlings", and don't put much thought into it. New Japan is the best thing going right now, and Omega is one of the guys leading the charge. It's the truth. Nothing overrated about that. Also, minus one slightly homophobic post to Cornette I don't know if Omega is much of a dolt. I've heard him in interviews and he comes across as incredibly intelligent. Fuck, the guy can speak Japanese.

And as I said I love Cornette, and agree with him a lot. In fact, we both agree on Cornette being great and that he is too harsh on Omega. You just gobble Cornette's knob too hard. Think for yourself Noid.

[mike adamle]

Yeah, basically this. People get blinders up when they talk about Cornette. Just look at the replies you get from people who immediately go to the false "old man yelling at clouds" memes, when what Cornette is really doing is calling for logic.

I think his spiels against Omega, whilst they are fun, are very harsh. Omega is overrated and does seem to be a bit of a dolt, frankly, but if you black-balled everybody he does dumb stuff, we'd have Xavier Woods taken out for the trust fall, Mick Foley taken out for the dick flip (although that might be for the best at this point), Shawn Michaels for the Curtain Call (HHH wouldn't be a loss), etc.

I think Cornette directly attributes the death of wrestling (and keep in mind he is speaking in hyperbolic terms, you idiots who would jump on this and be like "well, why does the WWE still even exist then?") to Vince McMahon's responses to the steroid scandal in the 90s -- claiming to be Disney and put smiles on faces. This idea that he exonerates Vince yet would punish Omega is a bit of a false assertion.

A better comparison would be Pete Dunne. Corny loves his work, yet he does dumb video game shit. He's probably just unaware of that though, and would blast Dunne for that, if it's as goofy as Omega's (if it's just dressing up or presenting that aesthetic, that's different to actually trying to do hadoukens and shit). Or Jay Lethal -- Cornette loves him now, but Black Machismo was pretty dumb. That being said, it was Jay Lethal putting on an act, and not so much "OMG! This act is real!"

I dunno, I think the accusations of hypocrisy are exaggerated conveniences for those who would try to circumvent Corny's actual points. And, as I've said in the past, it seems like members of the IWC actually have problems wrapping their head around it. A few people might get insulted by this, but I think he's just generally smarter than most people. Not even in a wrestling sense, but in a general intellect kind of way. I don't subscribe to all his views, but his logical processing is just on a level that sends people who disagree with him, usually, into spirals of illogical straw-men and emotional rambling.

I think that's part of the reason I love the man so much. He usually proves his subject a fool. Joey Ryan retorted to calling Cornette a homophobe (Cornette's pretty left-wing), Kenny King responded with homophobia. Omega's been the classiest of the lot and has actually tried to take a moral high road.

TL;DR: Cornette is pretty much right about everything, you dummies. Stop resorting to straw-men because he makes your indy darlings butt-hurt. He is too extreme on Omega though, and that gives his detractors ample room to do their "Look what an asshole he is!" thing, as if that somehow discredits his points.

It sounds like you think anyone that tries something new is dumb. Maybe they should all just rehash old Jim Cornette storylines to get your approval? I know that's all they care about anyways is your approval, not the money they make from the business they are in or having fun and getting the fans into the product they're pushing.

[Evil Vito]

The Bucks' match with Taguchi and Ricochet on the G1 Climax finals shows they are perfectly capable of wrestling a proper tag match with psychology and telling a story.

They just choose not to on their Indy appearances because people who go to those shows want to see the spots and the silliness. They're athletic T-shirt salesmen.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

The Bucks' match with Taguchi and Ricochet on the G1 Climax finals shows they are perfectly capable of wrestling a proper tag match with psychology and telling a story.

They just choose not to on their Indy appearances because people who go to those shows want to see the spots and the silliness. They're athletic T-shirt salesmen.

Also, springboard "she calls that the rear view"

[Mr. Nerfect]

Pete Dunne's video game promotion is a billion times more ridiculous than anything Kenny Omega has ever done. Cornette would be calling for him to be hung drawn and quartered if he knew about it and that's the problem with Jim, he thinks his personally precieved negatives means fuck the positives and calls for a guy to be murdered for disrespecting "his" wrestling business. Comparing practicing comedy wrestling to being a practicing Nazi is an absolutely braindead assessment.

I haven't seen Dunne's promotion, so I can't comment on that. I do disagree with your assessment of Cornette and "his" business. Cornette is one of the least selfish dudes in the industry. I think that's a huge part of what pisses him off today -- the "kids" are selfish in trying to "get their shit in" and undercut the main event guys, for example. It's selfish to "go into business for yourself" and do comedy stuff while the main event dudes are trying to get seriously over. "Fuck the positives?" Maybe. I think Cornette sees the positives pretty clearly, but what are the positives to swinging your dick around like it's a magic rod? I think Cornette has effectively weighed the "positives" of that approach against the positives of another approach, and demonstrated how it's not that positive.

It comes down to 15-year-old boy syndrome to me. There are people who think that bad for the sake of becoming good is good, but it's really just bad. Or, if it does effectively masquerade, it's only good until something good comes along.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The Bucks' match with Taguchi and Ricochet on the G1 Climax finals shows they are perfectly capable of wrestling a proper tag match with psychology and telling a story.

They just choose not to on their Indy appearances because people who go to those shows want to see the spots and the silliness. They're athletic T-shirt salesmen.

That's true. I don't doubt The Young Bucks can work. It's the flip-side to what I used to say about Heath Slater: "Just because he doesn't do some things doesn't mean he can't do them." And that is why I respect Heath Slater a lot more, and sincerely submit that he's better than them.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Pretty sure the Young Bucks' bank accounts suggest they're better than Heath Slater.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Noid, as much as you try to prove otherwise, you are a fucking mark and a half sometimes.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'm guessing you think Heath Slater is better than Kenny Omega.

[Mr. Nerfect]

First of all, there's nothing you can say to prove to me Omega is over-rated.

He is one hell of a fucking worker. The problem is, nowadays, people LOVE to be contrarian to the "indy darlings", and don't put much thought into it. New Japan is the best thing going right now, and Omega is one of the guys leading the charge. It's the truth. Nothing overrated about that. Also, minus one slightly homophobic post to Cornette I don't know if Omega is much of a dolt. I've heard him in interviews and he comes across as incredibly intelligent. Fuck, the guy can speak Japanese.

And as I said I love Cornette, and agree with him a lot. In fact, we both agree on Cornette being great and that he is too harsh on Omega. You just gobble Cornette's knob too hard. Think for yourself Noid.

When I say "overrated" I don't mean that he's terrible. I just mean overrated in the sense that people claim he's Jesus, when it's very clear to me that he's not. If he proves to be, I'll eat my words, but I don't think he will, and I think time will bear that out. The Okada/Omega match I saw was **** worthy. That's a tremendous compliment. To me, ***** is perfect, and very few things are actually perfect, and they need to absorb historical significance to earn that rating retrospectively. For example, we can say that about Austin/Hart. If nothing had come from that match, we may not see it the same light, you know?

I think Omega is very good. I'm not fighting you on that point. I think his faces are dumb, and yes that is important. But it's ironic you say that the other camp doesn't put much thought in, because that's exactly my criticism of the majority of the "IWC": They were so keen to call it the greatest match ever that it was like they've never seen anything else.

When I say Omega is a dolt, it is projecting a little. I obviously don't know the guy. The interviews I've heard are just him justifying dumb shit in matches that can cripple people. He might be a genius, I've just never bought into the "Omega is smart" stuff circulating on the internet. When I hear him talk, I hear a skater trying really hard not to say the word "radical," but that might just be me. Whatever, it's a dumb point to contend.

I kind of balk at the "think for yourself" comment. You can't know this about me, but it's kind of an ironic statement from my perspective. That's your view. I'd throw the same thing at people who think that geeky wrestling is instantly good. My biggest complaint with the anti-logic crowd is that they don't think for themselves enough, and defer to memes and group-think in order to respond to Cornette's individualistic claims. But whatever.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Pretty sure the Young Bucks' bank accounts suggest they're better than Heath Slater.

That would be interesting to see. I don't know how much Slater is getting paid, but I don't think that's as clear-cut as you think it is.

Noid, as much as you try to prove otherwise, you are a fucking mark and a half sometimes.

Heh.

I'm guessing you think Heath Slater is better than Kenny Omega.

I'd rather watch Heath Slater regularly, honestly. That's my subjective take. Objectively, I think that Omega is a lot better than The Young Bucks. This is a perfect example of your projections by the way. I do love you, but sometimes you don't acknowledge you're guessing and just argue from the assumed point. Not picking a bone here (honestly), just pointing it out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It sounds like you think anyone that tries something new is dumb. Maybe they should all just rehash old Jim Cornette storylines to get your approval? I know that's all they care about anyways is your approval, not the money they make from the business they are in or having fun and getting the fans into the product they're pushing.

Nope. I love innovation. Keeping things the same for the sake of it is dumb, unless it is working. Most of Cornette's ideas, as much as I love him, were ideas that had previously worked. That being said, ironically, Cornette was an innovative and progressive personality in wrestling. This is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

That would be interesting to see. I don't know how much Slater is getting paid, but I don't think that's as clear-cut as you think it is.



Heh.



I'd rather watch Heath Slater regularly, honestly. That's my subjective take. Objectively, I think that Omega is a lot better than The Young Bucks. This is a perfect example of your projections by the way. I do love you, but sometimes you don't acknowledge you're guessing and just argue from the assumed point. Not picking a bone here (honestly), just pointing it out.

I'm not trying to win a debate with you Noid. You clearly have an axe to grind with Omega because you're a Cornette mark.

[Vastardikai]

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This is what wrestling has come to. Now Joey Ryan has shitty imitators.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't think Omega vs Okada are the greatest matches EVERRRRRRR but I don't know any matches that are. I just think they were fucking fantastic. Last I checked, Omega hasn't crippled anyone. And yes, you are projecting on Omega thinking he's trying to justify "crippling" people.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And honestly, as an athletic spectacle, Omega vs Okada is on a different planet to Hart vs Austin. Now, you can argue about storytelling, but one is North American style storytelling vs Japanese strongstyle storytelling. While Okada v Omega the selling was great, the only thing I didn't like was near fall city, whereas Hart/Austin was believable the whole way. 850 nearfalls in a match is a bit contrived. Everything else is money. And I like Omega's facials, I see nothing wrong with them. But you're a hater, so I shouldn't be surprised.

[#1-norm-fan]

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This is what wrestling has come to. Now Joey Ryan has shitty imitators.

Jesus Christ...

[#1-norm-fan]

Welp. If eating some ass puts a smile on everyone's face...

[Ultra Mantis]

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This is what wrestling has come to. Now Joey Ryan has shitty imitators.

Not sure what this has to do with Joey Ryan, it's not realistic at all that a man could flip you using his dick, whereas one guy holding you down while you struggle and scream "NO!" as another man eats your ass is incredibly realistic and a real danger.

[Ultra Mantis]

I haven't seen Dunne's promotion, so I can't comment on that. I do disagree with your assessment of Cornette and "his" business. Cornette is one of the least selfish dudes in the industry. I think that's a huge part of what pisses him off today -- the "kids" are selfish in trying to "get their shit in" and undercut the main event guys, for example. It's selfish to "go into business for yourself" and do comedy stuff while the main event dudes are trying to get seriously over. "Fuck the positives?" Maybe. I think Cornette sees the positives pretty clearly, but what are the positives to swinging your dick around like it's a magic rod? I think Cornette has effectively weighed the "positives" of that approach against the positives of another approach, and demonstrated how it's not that positive.

It comes down to 15-year-old boy syndrome to me. There are people who think that bad for the sake of becoming good is good, but it's really just bad. Or, if it does effectively masquerade, it's only good until something good comes along.

And there we hit a major flaw in your, or should I say Cornette's argument: Ignorance. He's learning about most of the stuff third hand, making assumptions and then holding grudges over his own misconceptions. Pete Dunne is a great world class talent until somebody sends Jim Cornette a video of him being frozen in place by a guy dressed as Sub Zero.

As for fuck the positives, you seem to have missed the context of that one entirely. There is no weighing up when it comes to "Fuck Kenny Omega / Mick Foley / Cody Rhodes / Ciampa / etc" because all the positives become moot over one small thing.

Best wrestler in the world? Fuck him, he wrestled a little girl, blackball him and slit his throat.

Good friend of 30 years, highly successful icon of the industry? Took a dick flip, fuck him what a piece of shit.

Guy I've been singing the praises of lately but just found out he took a thumb in the ass spot in PWG years ago? Fuck him, break his legs, ban him from wrestling.

Son of one the all time greats, been on good terms since he was a child, been a big supporter of up until now? Yeah he took a dick flip too, fuck him, burn in hell what a piece of shit.

In every Cornette clip I've ever heard of him going off on somebody he literally uses the term "MY business", he's selfish as fuck, as is every other promotor ever. He thinks his way is the only way and anyone who does something he doesn't like deserves banishment or death. Unless this is supposed to be humour? Absurdist humour doesn't fit such a serious man though does it?

As multiple people have stressed, Joey Ryan is a niche comedy act and he isn't hurting anyone with his dumb move. Let's not forget Jim Cornette slapped Santino because he thought Santino laughing made the Boogeyman look like he wasn't legit. He thought The fucking Boogeyman didn't make wrestling look like utter shit. This was even before they gave him the "oh he just thinks he's a Boogeyman because he's an actor playing a part or something and he went too deep" backstory because they realised how fucking dumb the character was. Maybe everyone who wrestles Joey Ryan is an actor, playing the part of a guy who was paid to grab his dick because wrestling. Just to re-iterate, I'm not a fan of Joey Ryan.

If you need to keep going back to Joey Ryan, who is not a great wrestler and has found a way to get himself booking and make more money, as the be all and end all example of Cornette is always right it would seem you are the one who is grapsing at straws CyNoid.

You know who Cornette or anyone never goes after when they mention Ryan? Danshoku Dino, the guy who gave him the dick flip spot in the first place and has been doing a much more homo-erotic number of penis spots for the past ten years in DDT. Ryan isn't even doing anything new. Ignorance. Such ignorance.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm not trying to win a debate with you Noid. You clearly have an axe to grind with Omega because you're a Cornette mark.

This is an untruth. I don't have an axe to grind at all. I watched the Okada match and he came out mugging. I hate it when actors do it in films, I hate it when Alexa Bliss does it, I hate it when ZSJ does it. William Regal and Vince are the only people that can get away with it for me. Stop projecting conveniences for the sake of your point.

And there we hit a major flaw in your, or should I say Cornette's argument: Ignorance. He's learning about most of the stuff third hand, making assumptions and then holding grudges over his own misconceptions. Pete Dunne is a great world class talent until somebody sends Jim Cornette a video of him being frozen in place by a guy dressed as Sub Zero.


As for fuck the positives, you seem to have missed the context of that one entirely. There is no weighing up when it comes to "Fuck Kenny Omega / Mick Foley / Cody Rhodes / Ciampa / etc" because all the positives become moot over one small thing.

Best wrestler in the world? Fuck him, he wrestled a little girl, blackball him and slit his throat.

Lol, Omega is not the best wrestler in the world. Also, Cornette has dealt with Omega personally. Cornette is more plugged into what is going on, for the sake of his podcasts, than convenient for your argument. And why is Cornette held to some standard of journalism anyway? Why does he need to first-hand document all the things he wants to have an opinion on? Sure, that would be good practice, but he could not like Omega because of the color of his hair if he saw fit. It just wouldn't make for a well-formed point.

As it turns out, though, Cornette does have well-formed points. Yes, when you do pretend to be playing Mortal Kombat it is "fuck that." And? Where are the "positives" in that? I brushed over that point because I don't find it particularly compelling. If a talented actor appeared in a shitty movie, the actor can still be talented, but it doesn't make the movie not shitty. I really don't get what you are trying to achieve with that point.

Good friend of 30 years, highly successful icon of the industry? Took a dick flip, fuck him what a piece of shit.

Actually, that wasn't even Cornette's stance. Try again.

Guy I've been singing the praises of lately but just found out he took a thumb in the ass spot in PWG years ago? Fuck him, break his legs, ban him from wrestling.

Who was that? If anything, Cornette has blinders up to guys he likes. Try again.

In every Cornette clip I've ever heard of him going off on somebody he literally uses the term "MY business", he's selfish as fuck, as is every other promotor ever. He thinks his way is the only way and anyone who does something he doesn't like deserves banishment or death. Unless this is supposed to be humour? Absurdist humour doesn't fit such a serious man though does it?

I think Cornette is hilarious, frankly. Some of his jokes, as in actual jokes can be labored, but he delivers them with charm. I find Cornette funny and you find guys being beaten up my magic penises funny. Different tastes, I guess.

I've listened to quite a few Corny rants, and I've actually never picked up on those possessives. It always came off to me like he sees the business as belonging to the boys. I'm not saying you're wrong on this point, I've just never actually picked up on that.

As multiple people have stressed, Joey Ryan is a niche comedy act and he isn't hurting anyone with his dumb move. Let's not forget Jim Cornette slapped Santino because he thought Santino laughing made the Boogeyman look like he wasn't legit. He thought The fucking Boogeyman didn't make wrestling look like utter shit. This was even before they gave him the "oh he just thinks he's a Boogeyman because he's an actor playing a part or something and he went too deep" backstory because they realised how fucking dumb the character was. Maybe everyone who wrestles Joey Ryan is an actor, playing the part of a guy who was paid to grab his dick because wrestling. Just to re-iterate, I'm not a fan of Joey Ryan.

He's niche and he's shit, and we agree that he's not the biggest problem in wrestling, but that doesn't mean he isn't a problem.

Also, your Boogeyman narrative is wrong. Cornette hated the gimmick, but the edict came from above to use it. Corny tried to pass it off as he was mentally unstable and actually believes he is The Boogeyman, which is ridiculous, but the man himself is very dangerous and clearly has a warped sense of reality. That got amended to the actor thing on the main roster.

As for Santino -- yeah, Corny probably shouldn't have slapped him. On the sliding scale of things veterans do to rookies, it is very low on the totem pole, but that's still no justification. Santino's responses to Cornette as actually very weak for such a funny guy. He's like "I probably could have whipped Cornette" and Cornette is like "Of course you could have! That wasn't the point, you fucking idiot." A good metaphor.

If you need to keep going back to Joey Ryan, who is not a great wrestler and has found a way to get himself booking and make more money, as the be all and end all example of Cornette is always right it would seem you are the one who is grapsing at straws CyNoid.

Lol, what? Exhibit A on how the anti-logic camp always seems to spiral out a bit when things go beyond the trendy "Cornette is an old asshole" argument. Apparently I am hinging everything on Joey Ryan being a git to defend everything Cornette has ever said or done? Okay, that became fallacious very quickly.

You know who Cornette or anyone never goes after when they mention Ryan? Danshoku Dino, the guy who gave him the dick flip spot in the first place and has been doing a much more homo-erotic number of penis spots for the past ten years in DDT. Ryan isn't even doing anything new. Ignorance. Such ignorance.

How is this...why would you...ugh. Yes, because when talking about how shitty an independent geek is, you always need to go back to the innovative of said geekiness, because it's important to be a connoisseur of such things. The other day I saw a movie with a friend. It was directed by someone named G. Night Shyamalan or something. My friend didn't like it -- the twist "insulted their intelligence" or something absurd. It's a good thing I was there to point out that this director didn't invent the twist. Thankfully this arose my friend from their misconceptions about that film being terrible, and they loved it when they realized that there is a precedent for such shit.

[Ultra Mantis]

Okay you're trolling, I get it.

[mike adamle]

How is this...why would you...ugh. Yes, because when talking about how shitty an independent geek is, you always need to go back to the innovative of said geekiness, because it's important to be a connoisseur of such things. The other day I saw a movie with a friend. It was directed by someone named G. Night Shyamalan or something. My friend didn't like it -- the twist "insulted their intelligence" or something absurd. It's a good thing I was there to point out that this director didn't invent the twist. Thankfully this arose my friend from their misconceptions about that film being terrible, and they loved it when they realized that there is a precedent for such shit.

Why would you brag about taking an imaginary friend to the movies?


Seriously though, doesn't it get boring writing such nonsense that no one including yourself cares about? You don't have anything else to do with your imaginary friend except write this garbage?

[Fignuts]

https://i.imgur.com/HYsd2z5_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

[Vastardikai]

Not sure what this has to do with Joey Ryan, it's not realistic at all that a man could flip you using his dick, whereas one guy holding you down while you struggle and scream "NO!" as another man eats your ass is incredibly realistic and a real danger.

I am putting this nonsense at Ryan's feet. White Mike was probably like "Hey, this dude went viral by flipping people with his dick. How can I top that? I know, I'll eat a dude's ass in the ring!"

And I say that knowing full well that you likely wouldn't have even heard of it had I not posted it. My point stands, though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Okay you're trolling, I get it.

:roll:

[#1-norm-fan]

You know who Cornette or anyone never goes after when they mention Ryan? Danshoku Dino, the guy who gave him the dick flip spot in the first place and has been doing a much more homo-erotic number of penis spots for the past ten years in DDT. Ryan isn't even doing anything new. Ignorance. Such ignorance.

How is this...why would you...ugh. Yes, because when talking about how shitty an independent geek is, you always need to go back to the innovative of said geekiness, because it's important to be a connoisseur of such things. The other day I saw a movie with a friend. It was directed by someone named G. Night Shyamalan or something. My friend didn't like it -- the twist "insulted their intelligence" or something absurd. It's a good thing I was there to point out that this director didn't invent the twist. Thankfully this arose my friend from their misconceptions about that film being terrible, and they loved it when they realized that there is a precedent for such shit.

Okay you're trolling, I get it.

I'm gonna have to step in here because dammit, when you call someone out for being a troll it should be because they're either being a Goddamn troll or so fucking retarded that they're accidentally being troll-like.

Noid's response to this is valid. Cornette doesn't have to trace the roots of the dick spot and roast the originator of it. Ryan is the guy who is "internet famous" for it so he's the one who gets the attention. Good or bad. It's not up to Cornette to research the history of the dick spot and call out Dashiki Dildo before he's allowed to have an opinion on the guy who is actually known for the spot.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, Mike Adamle is a troll.

Yeah, I said it.

[Fignuts]

Honestly, how is this conversation still going on? Who fucking cares if there is some guy doing dick flips in some bingo hall in japan? Who fucking cares if Mick Foley joined him. It's a niche style of wrestling for a niche audience performed in tiny arenas. This shit isn't main eventing WrestleMania or being forced down anyone's throat.

Once in a while I might be in the mood for an Ebessan Vs Kamen match, but for the most part, the comedy stuff doesn't interest me. So you know what I do? I don't watch it. I go watch the type of wrestling I do like.

Point is, we live in an era where people are doing different and creative things with wrestling, but if you don't like those things, there are plenty of other alternatives available at the press of a button. You can either argue on the internet for pages and pages, or you can find some wrestling you like and actually, ya know, enjoy yourself.

[Vastardikai]

Once in a while I might be in the mood for an Ebessan Vs Kamen match, but for the most part, the comedy stuff doesn't interest me. So you know what I do? I don't watch it. I go watch the type of wrestling I do like.

I'd argue that Ebessan vs. Kamen are the George Carlin of comedy matches, while Joey Ryan is the Larry the Cable Guy of same.

1. Their classic stuff was pretty much making fun of the tropes of wrestling itself. Like the arm bar spot looking like a dance bit so it devolves into them dancing with each other. Or the International being subverted with a stomp after the drop down.

2. Ebessan was in a six man mixed tag where one of the opponents was Super Delphin (sp?). Delphin made a hot tag and had Ebessan begging off in the corner. Ebessan took the opportunity to... ask for a raise. (Super Delphin ran Osaka Pro, which is their primary promotion)

3. Samoa Joe used to do a spot where he'd casually walk out of a corner to avoid an opponent charging for an aerial move, looking over the shoulder like they are dumb asses. It was a serious take on an Ebessan spot, which took something goofy and made himself look bad ass. I can't think of a way that the Dick Flip can be done seriously and people buy it.

4. The most important thing right here. Despite all that, what makes Ebessan and Kamen different from the likes of Ryan and Santino was this: They were actually GOOD WORKERS. Kamen was one hell of an aerialist, and Ebessan/Kikutaro has the best Shining Wizard outside of Mutoh himself. Both were capable of having damn good matches that were serious. Don't believe me? Look up Ebessan vs. Jushin Liger.

You know who Cornette or anyone never goes after when they mention Ryan? Danshoku Dino, the guy who gave him the dick flip spot in the first place and has been doing a much more homo-erotic number of penis spots for the past ten years in DDT. Ryan isn't even doing anything new. Ignorance. Such ignorance.

The initial dick spot with Dino, oddly enough, was the only time the Dick Spot was actually funny.

[Fignuts]

Vas, I think you missed my point.

[Ultra Mantis]

Lots of points being missed on this page apparently.

[Vastardikai]

Vas, I think you missed my point.

No, I get that comedy matches can be a niche thing, so you give it all a pass. I was making a separate point: That there's nuance in the whole comedy pass. At some point there's a dividing line between "Good" comedy wrestling and "Bad" comedy wrestling. "Good" comedy gets a pass with me. "Bad" comedy does not.

[Fignuts]

I just don't see why anything needs a pass and other things don't. Why take a stand against something that other people are enjoying, and is too small and niche to hurt anything.

[Destor]

The dam is busted, nothing matters anymore.

[Fignuts]

The mystique and "sanctity" of the business was shot in the leg with the steroid trial, and double tapped by the rise of the internet. It was dead long before Joey Ryan took his first dick flip. I just see the comedy stuff as guys using the modern environment to entertain fans in a new way. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Destor]

The mystique and "sanctity" of the business was shot in the leg with the steroid trial, and double tapped by the rise of the internet. It was dead long before Joey Ryan took his first dick flip. I just see the comedy stuff as guys using the modern environment to entertain fans in a new way. Nothing more, nothing less.
agreed

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm gonna have to step in here because dammit, when you call someone out for being a troll it should be because they're either being a Goddamn troll or so fucking retarded that they're accidentally being troll-like.

Noid's response to this is valid. Cornette doesn't have to trace the roots of the dick spot and roast the originator of it. Ryan is the guy who is "internet famous" for it so he's the one who gets the attention. Good or bad. It's not up to Cornette to research the history of the dick spot and call out Dashiki Dildo before he's allowed to have an opinion on the guy who is actually known for the spot.

Thanks, fan. As always, you a trooper for what is good, right and American. I was going to let it go unsaid, because it felt like a concession to me, but that does feel like snarky false attribution. But it at least feels like an avoidance of actually contending the point.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The dam is busted, nothing matters anymore.

The mystique and "sanctity" of the business was shot in the leg with the steroid trial, and double tapped by the rise of the internet. It was dead long before Joey Ryan took his first dick flip. I just see the comedy stuff as guys using the modern environment to entertain fans in a new way. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ironically enough, this has always been Cornette's contention too.