Most Undeserved Pushes

[Swiss Ultimate]

Here's my Top 3. My criteria is that they disappointed me personally as well as dropped the ball.

Glacier- not really a "push", but they hyped the hell out of that guy. Great example of WCW wasting a ton of money for pretty much no benefit to them. I remember expecting something really special there and being so disappointed.

Vickie Guerrero- tell me why we turned the widow of a wonderful wrestler into a terrible heel while humiliating her on a weekly basis. The nude photoshoot still makes me feel ill, not because she was unattractive, but because she was made to look awful by her own employer. She was not good at her job, people just hated listening to her voice.

Test- RIP. Generic look, terrible in the ring, no charisma. Biggest accomplishment was being in The Union with Foley and the Rock. Felt like he was pushed only because he was kind of tall.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Jinder Mahal

[Bad News Gertner]

Here's my Top 3. My criteria is that they disappointed me personally as well as dropped the ball.

Glacier- not really a "push", but they hyped the hell out of that guy. Great example of WCW wasting a ton of money for pretty much no benefit to them. I remember expecting something really special there and being so disappointed.

Vickie Guerrero- tell me why we turned the widow of a wonderful wrestler into a terrible heel while humiliating her on a weekly basis. The nude photoshoot still makes me feel ill, not because she was unattractive, but because she was made to look awful by her own employer. She was not good at her job, people just hated listening to her voice.

Test- RIP. Generic look, terrible in the ring, no charisma. Biggest accomplishment was being in The Union with Foley and the Rock. Felt like he was pushed only because he was kind of tall.

I agree with Test and Glacier, but Vickie was the best heel in a decade. She was a heat magnet

[Bad News Gertner]

As someone who has watched way more 1980's/very early 90's WWF wrestling than I care to admit, the 1990 push of Dino Bravo was the worst

[Ruien]

Jinder Mahal

This.

Finn Balor when he won the belt before getting injured.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, yeah, Balor is a modern one. I mean, you can make that case for anyone who really gets pushed out the gate, because what is "deserving" in that case? But using the term liberally and by looking at whether or not the lead-in or the aftermath lived up to it, then Balor definitely makes the list.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Khali really just got pushed because he was big and Indian. But by default that makes him a little better than Mahal, because at least he was big.

[Bad News Gertner]

Mabel in 95

[Bad News Gertner]

Billy Gunn as a single in 99

[Ruien]

Gunn did enough to deserve a try at a singles run. He just failed at it.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I agree with Test and Glacier, but Vickie was the best heel in a decade. She was a heat magnet

She got boos. I thought it was because of how terrible she was and not because she was an effective heel.

Could be wrong, but it always seemed like she had that "xpac heat" people used to talk about all the time.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Gunn did enough to deserve a try at a singles run. He just failed at it.

He had been part of a successful tag team and was a solid C+ wrassler with no business near the top.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I'm using a broad definition of "undeserved".

You could make the case that a lot of company guys who gave a lot to the business "deserve" a push, but really the fans are ultimately the deciding factor. The fans were not clamoring for MORE Billy Gunn and his reaction from the start of that 99 run was awful.

He could not get anybody to care or even buy him as a threat to The Rock. So I'd say the push was undeserved.

[Fignuts]

Agree with Gertner on Vickie.

Tadao Yasuda and Kazuyuki Fujita in New Japan Pro Wrestling.

Neither could work for shit, but were given the IWGP Heavyweight Title anyway, because New Japan was trying to capitalize on the MMA boom of the early 2000's but fans shit all over it. That combined with the Lesnar debacle sent the company into a nose dive that it still hasn't recovered from, even with it's current resurgence.

[Bad News Gertner]

She got boos. I thought it was because of how terrible she was and not because she was an effective heel.

Could be wrong, but it always seemed like she had that "xpac heat" people used to talk about all the time.

It was definitely not X-Pac heat. She got the loudest boos during that promo with Cena that I've ever heard before.

[Bad News Gertner]

Gunn did enough to deserve a try at a singles run. He just failed at it.

He failed misrably during that program with the Rock

[Frank Drebin]

Agree with Gertner on Vickie.

Tadao Yasuda and Kazuyuki Fujita in New Japan Pro Wrestling.

Neither could work for shit, but were given the IWGP Heavyweight Title anyway, because New Japan was trying to capitalize on the MMA boom of the early 2000's but fans shit all over it. That combined with the Lesnar debacle sent the company into a nose dive that it still hasn't recovered from, even with it's current resurgence.

Can someone give or direct me to a run down of this? I had no idea Lesnar in NJPW was a huge disaster.

[Fignuts]

He basically squashed everyone with the eventual plan being to have Tanahashi stepping up to slay the beast. But then he vacated the title due to visa issues, leaving no pay off and everyone in new japan looking like chumps. Lesnar kept the physical belt and had a unification match against Angle who was the IWGP champ at the time....which still left New Japan looking bad since it was a TNA guy who eventually beat him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

EDIT: Sorry, I literally just ignored Fignuts' post.

[Mr. Nerfect]

But Brock will make things right when he returns to New Japan in 2018.

[Fignuts]

Thinking about Lesnar vs Iishi is making me hard.

[Swiss Ultimate]

He basically squashed everyone with the eventual plan being to have Tanahashi stepping up to slay the beast. But then he vacated the title due to visa issues, leaving no pay off and everyone in new japan looking like chumps. Lesnar kept the physical belt and had a unification match against Angle who was the IWGP champ at the time....which still left New Japan looking bad since it was a TNA guy who eventually beat him.

Yeah, but at least it was Kurt Angle. Still shitty though that they didn't get the big match.

[KIRA]

Muhummad Hassan

Triple H

Bella Twins

I'm just gonna say it: Adam Cole there is nothing about this guy that makes me want to watch him (I never thought I'd see somebody I wanted to watch less than Rodrick Strong)

Baron Corbin

Enzo?????

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2JgfKIqVZzo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

loltnagfwimpact

[Anybody Thrilla]

Enzo is at least a great promo. He's fucking crushing on 205 Live right now.

[Fignuts]

Yeah, there might be a lot of IWC people that don't like him, but the dude is over as fuck, and I don't blame the WWE for putting the title on him to inject some life into 205 live.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

as I've said before, I loved that finish versus Neville. It's the only logical way Enzo could beat someone of Neville's calibre and it made sense.

[Lock Jaw]

Undeserved push?

http://i.imgur.com/lfWNo.gif

[Stickman]

She got boos. I thought it was because of how terrible she was and not because she was an effective heel.

Could be wrong, but it always seemed like she had that "xpac heat" people used to talk about all the time.

She was the only person to make me change the channel every single time she was on. She was not a good heal to me, she was unbearable.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Sorry Stickbro, but Vickie was a great heel.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

People are pretty polarized on Vickie's effectiveness. I give her MAD credit for going head first into a role she was not qualified for as a performer, but I personally could not keep the t.v. on when she was on-screen. But maybe you're more of a wrestling fan than I, ABT.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Dunno what makes you say that last part, but she got really good. Maybe not at first.

Also, do you guys really just change the channel like that? How do you even know how long she's going to be on TV for a segment? Or maybe she was about to get interrupted by one of your favorites. Whether a show sucks or not, I stick with it all the way through. I always hear people say they change the channel or turn the TV off, and it sounds hilariously short-sighted to me.

[KIRA]

I gotta be honest Vickie pulled off her role beautifully

her grating voice deserves all the credit I lost bone density whenever she screamed

[Lock Jaw]

For the first few years I think she was unbearable..... hated all the stuff with Edge....

I think it was maybe halfway through her run with Ziggler before I turned around on her and was like "you know what, she is a great heel...... but in saying that people love to hate her so much that all the heat is going onto her instead of to Ziggler"

[McLegend]

Test's greatest accomplishment was banging Stacey Keibler.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Let's not forget the Immunity Battle Royal. Wrestlemania moment. Also, that Love Her or Leave Her match was tight.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Dunno what makes you say that last part, but she got really good. Maybe not at first.

Also, do you guys really just change the channel like that? How do you even know how long she's going to be on TV for a segment? Or maybe she was about to get interrupted by one of your favorites. Whether a show sucks or not, I stick with it all the way through. I always hear people say they change the channel or turn the TV off, and it sounds hilariously short-sighted to me.

Sorry I didn't actually mean that to be snarky.... I just find certain "wrestling" characters to just be too on the nose, and not be subtle enough and it actually just kills it for me. But that is kind of the lure of wrestling I guess, having over-the-top characters. I honestly do think you're a bigger wrestling fan than me because you enjoy it far more, and that's a good thing tbh. Would rather enjoy it than be as cynical about it as I am, but I can only enjoy what I like... knah mean?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

and also, you can turn the channel til that person is done, and change it back in hopes they're showing something you like.

[Destor]

Chavo Guerrero never got a push based on his own talents so underserved fits

[Anybody Thrilla]

and also, you can turn the channel til that person is done, and change it back in hopes they're showing something you like.

You're bound to miss something that way. Would you ever turn off a movie because there was a boring part?

[Fignuts]

To this day, Dale doesn't believe me when I tell him that El Dandy came out and hit Big Show with the corpse of George Hackenshmidt on an episode of raw. But thats what he gets for changing the channel

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, that was a good episode.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's available on Youtube, Figgy :roll:

[rockman725]

David Arquette... hands down. Was pushed to the MOON and was completely undeserving IMO.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Wrestling doesn't offer the same fresh content as a self contained 2 hour movie does. Even if I "miss" something, I'm not really missing anything. Pretty much seen it all, and can dig it on Youtube.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

David Arquette... hands down. Was pushed to the MOON and was completely undeserving IMO.

He paid his fucking dues with Sal Banditti.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Events lose their luster once you already know what happened. You're not a spoiler reader, are you? I'll never understand those people.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Spoilers don't bother me.

I'm a channel changer too. I used to flip back and forth between WCW and WWF!

[Anybody Thrilla]

Spoilers don't bother me.

I'm a channel changer too. I used to flip back and forth between WCW and WWF!

You really don't think you'd get more enjoyment out of a surprise or a twist?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wrestling doesn't offer the same fresh content as a self contained 2 hour movie does. Even if I "miss" something, I'm not really missing anything. Pretty much seen it all, and can dig it on Youtube.

Remember when wrestling used to be compelling "can't miss" television every week? I wonder how many people have tuned out because they've realized almost none of it matters?

[Swiss Ultimate]

You really don't think you'd get more enjoyment out of a surprise or a twist?

I think it's negligible for me. Two of my favorite films of all time were spoiled for me. Fight Club and The Sixth Sense. Still loved them.

To be honest, I remember the ones where I knew the ending best.

[Anybody Thrilla]

They would have been better had you not known the endings. I'm not saying things are impossible to enjoy with spoilers, but I'd imagine it would HAVE to be better without.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Possibly, but it's bever been something that I felt gipped about. I remember more "surprises" I hated than enjoyed for some reason. Worst thing ever was Vince being the guy who kidnapped his daughter and controlled Undertaker followed by The Village.

[Anybody Thrilla]

You're just being difficult. Surprises are dope.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It depends on whether the surprise makes sense or not. Sometimes they ruin the flow of what you are enjoying. See: Almost every single M. Night Shyamalan film ever.

[Swiss Ultimate]

You're just being difficult. Surprises are dope.

I'm really not trying to be. This isn't me doing a thing.

My favorite "surprise" was during Zombieland. When "you know who" made his appearance. Great stuff and it worked so well.

[Tom Guycott]

To this day, Dale doesn't believe me when I tell him that El Dandy came out and hit Big Show with the corpse of George Hackenshmidt on an episode of raw. But thats what he gets for changing the channel

So, what you're saying is: Dale doubts El Dandy?

Who is he to do so?

[Schlomey]

I'm going to play a heel and say Andre The Giant. Still headlining Wrasslemanias when he couldn't even stand up without the ropes. He was over and it was successful but it wasn't deserved by that point IMO.

[Bad News Gertner]

He drew 92000 people with Hogan. What more do you want?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Shoulda been Rugged Ronnie Garvin in that main even god dammit

[Schlomey]

He drew 92000 people with Hogan. What more do you want?

That number is fake news :kiss:

[Anybody Thrilla]

It depends on whether the surprise makes sense or not. Sometimes they ruin the flow of what you are enjoying. See: Almost every single M. Night Shyamalan film ever.

The end of last night's PPV was good as a surprise.

[Bad News Gertner]

That number is fake news :kiss:

79,000 then.

[Evil Vito]

Triple H was a decent hand who happened to be friends with the right people and then slept his way to the top.

[Anybody Thrilla]

It depends on whether the surprise makes sense or not. Sometimes they ruin the flow of what you are enjoying. See: Almost every single M. Night Shyamalan film ever.

Obviously you're going to run that risk, but wouldn't you rather be surprised than not? If you're just going to ASSUME that it COULD suck, that seems pessimistic to me.

[Evil Vito]

I'm not saying Triple H totally sucked or anything either - but a 14 time world champ or whatever he is? Get the fuck out of here.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I agree with the Triple H assessment. His version of DX as a whole was kinda wack.

[Bad News Gertner]

He made RAW unwatchable from 2002-2004

[Bad News Gertner]

Btw, how about Erik Watts who beat Arn Anderson for the T.V title.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He made RAW unwatchable from 2002-2004

85 minute promos about THIS...UHHH....BUSINESS...UHHHH

lol and now every fucking dvd about the attitude era is about how DX and HHH invented it, while Steve Austin just happened to be there lol

[My Final Heaven]

He made RAW unwatchable from 2002-2004

His match at WM19, total fucking bullshit

Ludvig Borga in the mid-90's WWF
They fed him Tatanka's undefeated streak, he took maybe 1 loss in his time with the company, then he got "injured" & they let him go before they could payoff the effort they put into him. Jim Ross talked about what a miserable bastard he was to be around backstage, also :lol:

[Schlomey]

85 minute promos about THIS...UHHH....BUSINESS...UHHHH

lol and now every fucking dvd about the attitude era is about how DX and HHH invented it, while Steve Austin just happened to be there lol

85 minute promos remind me about The Rock and every time he comes back for a little visit...20 minute entrance, cold chill show and then pausing for minutes at a time....kill me now

[KIRA]

Triple H was a decent hand who happened to be friends with the right people and then slept his way to the top.

AMEN TO THAT.

The man was 3rd tier
He was coming up as the attitude era was winding down and his wife HBK was out
his title reigns do nothing to change the fact that he isnt on Austin,Rock Taker ,HBK or even Brocks level

Amazing mind for wrestling just never ha what it took to be the man in a lot of eyes

then theres that one title reign..............:fu::mad::mad:

[owenbrown]

me before James Steele sees this thread

http://www.hilariousgifs.com/i/tZOS8.gif

[Sepholio]

Glacier- not really a "push", but they hyped the hell out of that guy. Great example of WCW wasting a ton of money for pretty much no benefit to them. I remember expecting something really special there and being so disappointed.

Man I am with you on this one. I remember all the Glacier vignettes fondly. It was during my teenage years, Mortal Kombat was the shit, and Glacier was basically Sub-Zero, here to destroy everyone! And then........nothing. Was such a disappointing let down.

Similarly big let down when Dustin Rhodes didn't go very far with the Seven gimmick. It was basically the same thing as Glacier really. Tons of hype, no payoff.

[Sepholio]

Test's greatest accomplishment was banging Stacey Keibler.

That is a great accomplishment as far as I'm concerned.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Obviously you're going to run that risk, but wouldn't you rather be surprised than not? If you're just going to ASSUME that it COULD suck, that seems pessimistic to me.

It really depends. Some things I want to know absolutely nothing about when I head in, and other things I want to be more sure of. Right now, I don't want WWE to "surprise" me. That's just not where I am. I'll only check it out if I am hearing good word of mouth. Otherwise, I don't want to risk it bothering me too much.

Like, when it comes to Hell in a Cell, it was "surprising" how mediocre the overall card was (expectations had the match quality as being rather high). That's not something I want out of my time investment. I suppose the more invested I am in a product, the more open I am to trusting it enough to surprise me.

For example, I probably won't even see a trailer for the new Star Wars film. Well, I won't actively seek one out. I managed to avoid everything in regards to The Force Awakens. It just depends on the product.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've got to back up Triple H. There was nothing about the guy that screamed "main event." And his run in the main event has actually been really underwhelming. I'm sure it was just coincidence, but I used to chuckle to myself when WrestleMania 23 stood out as such a successful WrestleMania, and it was the one without Triple H on it.

But sincerely, I don't think people get upset when he is not apart of something. I don't think they will avoid it just because he is on it, but this idea that he is some sort of draw card -- is it based on anything? You know, other than the WWE constantly telling you that he was one of the top stars of the Attitude era and is an ass-kicker, etc.

He's got to spray his stink all over everything too. He's wrestled The Undertaker at WrestleMania more times than Shawn Michaels did. Remember the Summer of Punk? "I've got an idea to help Cena as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an idea to help Roman as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an ideal to help Seth as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an idea to help Bryan as a babyface, Vince."

Fuck's sake, none of those guys were helped an ounce by Triple H. Batista is the one guy. And that came at the expense of Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Kane, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton and Chris Benoit. After building up that much tedium behind the Triple H empire, of course it's going to be cathartic to see him absolutely destroyed. Was the pay-off worth it?

[Anybody Thrilla]

OK, well as a wrestling fan who watches on a very regular basis and enjoys what he sees, I have absolutely no interest in spoilers. I'll leave it there.

[Anybody Thrilla]

On a message board about wrestling, I guess I assume a lot more people are like that too.

Regardless, there are definitely disrespectful ways to post spoilers, and I hope that the people that do that around here or anywhere get dysentery.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Still find it bizarre that the buys for Fully Loaded 2000 (headlined by The Rock vs. Chris Benoit for the WWF Title) matched Backlash 2000 (headlined by The Rock vs. Triple H in an Iron Man Match for the WWF Title). When you go back to that time in your memory, you think "Oh, Triple H was obviously the more effective star." Was he? Was he really? By which metric? By being able to bask in The Rock's glory?

Triple H is no doubt very historically significant. The WWE has obviously booked him that way. He's linked to some giant moments and great matches. But the idea that he has always been effective in his role is absolutely horse-shit. In fact, most of the time, Triple H's effectiveness has been negligible at best.

[Mr. Nerfect]

On a message board about wrestling, I guess I assume a lot more people are like that too.

Regardless, there are definitely disrespectful ways to post spoilers, and I hope that the people that do that around here or anywhere get dysentery.

Oh, and I get that. And that's cool. I'm not saying my way is better, just that I get that some people like to read up on stuff before they watch it. But yeah, spoilers should be marked.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hhh was dope af between january 2000 until wrestlemania 17. Before and after there were only scattered moments of greatness.

Even still he should never have been booked as the top guy.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wait, I think I am talking about Judgment Day where HHH only drew as much as Benoit against The Rock. Sorry, I get confused by those two all the time for some reason.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hhh was dope af between january 2000 until wrestlemania 17. Before and after there were only scattered moments of greatness.

Even still he should never have been booked as the top guy.

Yeah, I agree with this assessment. It's not like the dude is bad or anything, and he's been really great at certain points, but it never flowered into actually effecting the bottom line more than someone else in the role would have.

[Maluco]

Think people are being harsh on HHH in here. He had some awesome matches and feuds. At his peak, he was fantastic.

He has some great feuds on the rise to being a star and by the time he got there, he was legit. Had a great look, fantastic presentation (entrance, theme, etc...), was great in the ring for a long time and on top of everything, he was as tough as nails. (Finishing matches with a completely torn quad via walls of Jericho)

Amazing feuds with guys like Mankind, Rock, HBK, not just one, but two top stables in DX and Evolution.

I think he went on too long possibly and the McMahon/Helmsley era gave him far too much of an on-screen presence, but at his best he was phenomenal. Every bit a main event star.

[Maluco]

As for a valid answer to the question, I always thought that Jeff Jarrett was overpushed everywhere he was. I found him so boring and average at almost every aspect of being a performer. It's hard to remember the good stuff.

Him being a main event wrestler in WCW is crazy to me to this day. I always felt that IC title level was more than he deserved for whatever it was he offered.

TNA had some great talent too, that should have been shining at his expense.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Think people are being harsh on HHH in here. He had some awesome matches and feuds. At his peak, he was fantastic.

He has some great feuds on the rise to being a star and by the time he got there, he was legit. Had a great look, fantastic presentation (entrance, theme, etc...), was great in the ring for a long time and on top of everything, he was as tough as nails. (Finishing matches with a completely torn quad via walls of Jericho)

Amazing feuds with guys like Mankind, Rock, HBK, not just one, but two top stables in DX and Evolution.

I think he went on too long possibly and the McMahon/Helmsley era gave him far too much of an on-screen presence, but at his best he was phenomenal. Every bit a main event star.

Yep as I said, fantastic from Jan. 2000- WM X7. After that it was downhill, before that he was Mr. Midcard (and he deserved to be that). Don't get me wrong when he came back from the quad tear, every now and again he'd really deliver, but most of the time he wasn't that great and contributed to a strong decline.

[KIRA]

I've got to back up Triple H. There was nothing about the guy that screamed "main event." And his run in the main event has actually been really underwhelming. I'm sure it was just coincidence, but I used to chuckle to myself when WrestleMania 23 stood out as such a successful WrestleMania, and it was the one without Triple H on it.

But sincerely, I don't think people get upset when he is not apart of something. I don't think they will avoid it just because he is on it, but this idea that he is some sort of draw card -- is it based on anything? You know, other than the WWE constantly telling you that he was one of the top stars of the Attitude era and is an ass-kicker, etc.

He's got to spray his stink all over everything too. He's wrestled The Undertaker at WrestleMania more times than Shawn Michaels did. Remember the Summer of Punk? "I've got an idea to help Cena as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an idea to help Roman as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an ideal to help Seth as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an idea to help Bryan as a babyface, Vince."

Fuck's sake, none of those guys were helped an ounce by Triple H. Batista is the one guy. And that came at the expense of Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Kane, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton and Chris Benoit. After building up that much tedium behind the Triple H empire, of course it's going to be cathartic to see him absolutely destroyed. Was the pay-off worth it?

lemme see

No.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I hated his feuds with Foley.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I hated his feuds with Foley.

how come?

[Bad News Gertner]

His feud with Mankind in 1997 was fun

[Bad News Gertner]

Btw WWF 1997>WWF 1998

1997 WWF was awesome.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

1997 WWF was awesome.

Yes and no. Great stuff with Hart Foundation vs Austin. But MY GOD that mid card. What a fucking disaster. DOA, Los Boriquas, and the Nation. Gag me.

Though I guess Ken vs Vader trumps all when it comes down to it. Looking back, think DX is WAYYYYYY over rated... though Shawn vs Taker (including the intro of Kane) is pretty much one of the greatest things ever, plus Shawn was an immense heel.

But yeah Foley's feud with HHH in 97 was pretty damned good. Loved the cage match and the street fight at MSG. Though I've always preferred the RR 2000 street fight also at MSG.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yep as I said, fantastic from Jan. 2000- WM X7. After that it was downhill, before that he was Mr. Midcard (and he deserved to be that). Don't get me wrong when he came back from the quad tear, every now and again he'd really deliver, but most of the time he wasn't that great and contributed to a strong decline.

Yep, agree 100%. And it's arguable HHH's ego started to cause a decline even before this. Didn't he refute the proposed Stephanie alignment with Angle? And isn't that when television ratings started to dip? Hmm.

And when talking about how fantastic he was from January 2000 -- he was already WWF Champion at this point. If we're talking undeserved pushes, what did he ever do to deserve that position? By the time you get to WrestleMania, HHH has been great for three months. But so was John Morrison for a period in 2010.

[Mr. Nerfect]

HHH is significant because he was pushed; he wasn't pushed because he was significant.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol yeah that bullshit with Kurt and Steph (if the rumours are true) is just the lamest shit ever. Kurt and Steph would have been dynamite as a heel pairing, and THAT version of HHH would have been a perfect anti-hero to feud with them. But HHH (if the rumours are true) was very threatened by Kurt.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And by The Rock. And by Jericho. And even by Ric Flair (again, if you believe rumors).

[Mr. Nerfect]

And Jeff Jarrett is a good pick. Whenever the dude got near a World Title. Okay, I could maybe buy him as NWA Champion in TNA when they were just getting started. They had no one else and he knew he would turn up for work at least. But there was no reason for him to have such an association with the belt.

[Bad News Gertner]

Yes and no. Great stuff with Hart Foundation vs Austin. But MY GOD that mid card. What a fucking disaster. DOA, Los Boriquas, and the Nation. Gag me.

Though I guess Ken vs Vader trumps all when it comes down to it. Looking back, think DX is WAYYYYYY over rated... though Shawn vs Taker (including the intro of Kane) is pretty much one of the greatest things ever, plus Shawn was an immense heel.

But yeah Foley's feud with HHH in 97 was pretty damned good. Loved the cage match and the street fight at MSG. Though I've always preferred the RR 2000 street fight also at MSG.

The WWF mid card only started to get good towards very late 98.

Mankind vs HHH
Goldust vs Brian Pillman
Austin vs Hart Foundation
HBK vs Hart Foundation
Taker vs Mankind
Bulldog and Owen's peak as a tag team
Teams like Furnas and Lafon, Headbangers, Godwins, Road Warriors
Shamrock at his peak

Loved that stuff

[Bad News Gertner]

The Hart Foundation vs DX/U.S.A is my favourite feud of all time.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The WWF mid card only started to get good towards very late 98.

Mankind vs HHH
Goldust vs Brian Pillman
Austin vs Hart Foundation
HBK vs Hart Foundation
Taker vs Mankind
Bulldog and Owen's peak as a tag team
Teams like Furnas and Lafon, Headbangers, Godwins, Road Warriors
Shamrock at his peak

Loved that stuff

Yeah I'd agree with this but Furnas and LaFon really barely did anything at all. Calgary Stampede PPV in 1997 is fucking amazing though.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The Hart Foundation vs DX/U.S.A is my favourite feud of all time.

mine too. But I think I preferred Bret/Hart Foundation Vs Austin.

[Bad News Gertner]

They had some good matches. I remember a great match they had with Bulldog and Owen on RAW.

Plus the second greatest tag team ever the New Blackjacks were running wild

[Bad News Gertner]

Blue chipper Rocky Maivia

[Mr. Nerfect]

People were really excited about Furnas and LaFon coming in, weren't they? I watched their debut. They seemed good in the ring, but just like they were "guys." They were big in Japan, weren't they?

[Bad News Gertner]

Yes to all of the above

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

also the headbangers stank

[Lock Jaw]

I held a grudge/didn't like Stone Cold his whole career (except for when he went heel) due to being #TeamBret

[Swiss Ultimate]

That's hardcore.

[Bad News Gertner]

also the headbangers stank

I definitely disagree with you on that

[Maluco]

Yep as I said, fantastic from Jan. 2000- WM X7. After that it was downhill, before that he was Mr. Midcard (and he deserved to be that). Don't get me wrong when he came back from the quad tear, every now and again he'd really deliver, but most of the time he wasn't that great and contributed to a strong decline.

Yeah, was going to mention the quad tear. Never quite had the consistency as a performer after that. It's just a pity because I think his peak is forgotten because of the weaker stuff that came afterwards.

[Maluco]

The Hart Foundation vs DX/U.S.A is my favourite feud of all time.

I second this, absolutely loved this whole thing.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I held a grudge/didn't like Stone Cold his whole career (except for when he went heel) due to being #TeamBret

Funny thing is, Stone Cold never even beat Bret.

Amazing feud, that one.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bret used that line one time in WCW. "I BEAT STEVE AUSTIN EVERY TIME I FOUGHT HIM"

[Anybody Thrilla]

I second this, absolutely loved this whole thing.

Thirded

[Anybody Thrilla]

Bret used that line one time in WCW. "I BEAT STEVE AUSTIN EVERY TIME I FOUGHT HIM"

And that's when they realized wins and losses don't matter. :shifty:

[Bad News Gertner]

I don't think non-Canadian get how friggen over the Hart Foundation vs America/HBK/Stone Cold feud was in Canada. Lol Canadians hate Americans and this was our chance to vocalize it.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Fourthed tbh

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't think non-Canadian get how friggen over the Hart Foundation vs America/HBK/Stone Cold feud was in Canada. Lol Canadians hate Americans and this was our chance to vocalize it.

the one and only time Gertner moderately appreciated the Hitman.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't think non-Canadian get how friggen over the Hart Foundation vs America/HBK/Stone Cold feud was in Canada. Lol Canadians hate Americans and this was our chance to vocalize it.

I mean, I saw Canadian Stampede.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I was 10 and not allowed to order PPV. Obviously have seen it retroactively, but what was it like seeing live?

[KIRA]

I definitely disagree with you on that

I almost choked on my Water reading this. Explain. They seemed just.... not good did I miss something while they were the flying nuns?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I liked them when I was 10, but watching them now is a different story. Take that for what it's worth.

[Bad News Gertner]

I mean, I saw Canadian Stampede.

That was the Hart's hometown so I didn't bring it up (although I've never heard a crowd like that in my life). I'm talking about shows in Toronto, Winnipeg etc...those crowds were insane for the Harts

[Bad News Gertner]

I liked them when I was 10, but watching them now is a different story. Take that for what it's worth.

They did a lot of cool moves and had a cool gimmick . I thought they were great and should be in the Hall of Fame. I'm surprised they aren't already. The company LOVED them. They did a ton of PR and appearences for them

[#1-norm-fan]

Headbangers were good for their time. I'm not surprised they aren't in the Hall of Fame though. I mean... the standards are pretty low but I don't look at anyone already in the HOF and think "How the fuck did ______ get in and The Headbangers aren't!?!?!"

[#1-norm-fan]

They should at least wait until Hillbilly Jim gets in. Now THAT'S a fucking travesty.

[Lock Jaw]

Funny thing is, Stone Cold never even beat Bret.

Amazing feud, that one.

I was with Bret where I was just all "This guy isn't a role model or anybody to look up to and I hate that people are cheering for him".

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I was pissed off that Bret kept getting screwed. Fuck I was so pissed when Bret won the championship fair and square at Final, and Austin smashed him with the chair when he had the sharpshooter on Sid and cost him the belt :rant:

[Swiss Ultimate]

how come?

Partially because I was such an unabashed Foley mark.

Partially because his retirement feud didn't have any matches I enjoyed.

It didn't seem right for him to get squashed like that.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

That streetfight a rr 2000 was insane. One of my fave matches.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I was with Bret where I was just all "This guy isn't a role model or anybody to look up to and I hate that people are cheering for him".

It was kinda weird for me, because I was the biggest Hitman mark. Also, I was really starting to like Steve Austin. Even still, I was rooting for Bret in all of their matches. Rooting for Austin versus anyone else.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Also, I want to mention for no good reason other than all of you knowing what I'm talking about, the Austin/Bret Survivor Series match was better than WM13. Fight me.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I approve of the direction this thread has gone.

[Swiss Ultimate]

That streetfight a rr 2000 was insane. One of my fave matches.

I may have to rewatch. I remember I loved their first street fight. Again, my judgement may be clouded as I was a huge Foley nerd.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Also, I want to mention for no good reason other than all of you knowing what I'm talking about, the Austin/Bret Survivor Series match was better than WM13. Fight me.

As a classic wrasslin match, yes. But the storytelling and intensity of mania 13 was next levels

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'm a classic wrasslin' guy.

[Stickman]

Dunno what makes you say that last part, but she got really good. Maybe not at first.

Also, do you guys really just change the channel like that? How do you even know how long she's going to be on TV for a segment? Or maybe she was about to get interrupted by one of your favorites. Whether a show sucks or not, I stick with it all the way through. I always hear people say they change the channel or turn the TV off, and it sounds hilariously short-sighted to me.

Yeah dude, I literally changed the channel when she was on. I'd check in a few minutes later. I legitimately hated her on my tv.

[KIRA]

Billy Gunn multiple tries