WWE has a problem

[RP]

Check out all these empty seats for Hell In The Cell. Maybe everyone came for the Dolph Ziggler match and then left.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/odT7iBlEoi4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

No shit.

[#1-norm-fan]

SOLD OUT, THOUGH.

[#1-norm-fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLw8FzAW0AA354z.jpg:large

This was the third match on the card. Maybe they all just came to see Orton vs Rusev.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Take it all back to the Manhattan Centre.

[RP]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLw8FzAW0AA354z.jpg:large

This was the third match on the card. Maybe they all just came to see Orton vs Rusev.

yikes

[RP]

Where was that ppv at again?

[Ruien]

I keep seeing pictures like this. Is this an issue for real or some type of joke?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Pretty sure it's an issue.

[RP]

looks a bit like an issue to me.

[#1-norm-fan]

Where was that ppv at again?

Detroit

[Ultra Mantis]

Those seats are actually filled with the Indian market.

[Ruien]

Damn. Never really figured wrestling would die but maybe it will happen in the next few years.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Destor predicted it.

[Triple A]

They have apparently raised their ticket prices a lot in the past couple of years so that has something to do with it also

[Destor]

You mean shane McMahon and kevin steen arent draws? Weird.

[Destor]

Having a hard time believing a fat mark and a healthy dose of nepotism isnt filling the seats

[Swiss Ultimate]

Detroit though.

[Ruien]

Honestly, the only 2 people that could get me to a WWE event is Braun and Cena atm.

[Ruien]

MAYBE a AJ and Orton match for the SD side but only if they are going against each other. And that's still a maybe depending on the build up around it.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

They might have been bought by Stubhub abusers and then attempted to be re-sold. If that is true WWE gets the money and it's a sell out

[slik]

It seems like a growing problem, for both RAW and SD (but worse for SD).

[slik]

I am wondering if this means WM prices won't go up dramatically this year

[slik]

They have apparently raised their ticket prices a lot in the past couple of years so that has something to do with it also

Their largest demographic watching their tv program is around age 50 each week -- that obviously is not the future -- ticket prices being high would make it tough to get tickets for a whole family to attend.

[slik]

They might have been bought by Stubhu abusers and then attempted to be re-sold. If that is true WWE gets the money and it's a sell out

I seriously doubt that many people bought tickets on StubHub and then were just like 'nahhhhh, I'll stay home instead'

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

As Joseph Roxer would say "read my post"

[slik]

I seriously doubt that many people bought tickets on StubHub and attempted to re-sell them.

[#1-norm-fan]

You mean shane McMahon and kevin steen arent draws? Weird.

Having a hard time believing a fat mark and a healthy dose of nepotism isnt filling the seats

Clearly no one is a draw. Shane and Owens might have been the BIGGEST draw on the card. That says alot about the rest. Including the Mahal experiment.

[Destor]

Lesnar and Cena do alright

[#1-norm-fan]

I mean no one currently available on the full-time roster. Obviously, if they could have thrown Lesnar vs Cena on the card, Shane and Owens could have fucked right off to the opening match.

[Destor]

I agree. No one.

[Destor]

Switch to smaller venues and increase ticket prices. That would be my move. #nintendosealofapproval

[#1-norm-fan]

I feel like WWE would rather continue with the delusion that they're bigger than ever than "admit defeat" and scale back the venues.

[#1-norm-fan]

A packed house in a smaller arena would make the atmosphere feel better/less embarassing and improve the quality of the show though. As would the show not being boring in general. One step at a time though.

[slik]

That all depends on if the RAW/SD/PPV set could fit in the smaller venues, I don't see them scaling down the set for tv.


That said, many of the new 'smaller scale' arenas could definitely host WWE. When they come here to Wichita for TV they usually sell around 3k seats in a 15k venue with half the place blocked off. I've wondered why they don't just use the smaller arena in the city that seats 5k and is only a few years old instead.

[slik]

I think a lot of Casino Arenas are usually smaller as well (not including Vegas obviously) and seat from 3 -7 k.

[slik]

Something around this size seems like a good fit for WWE + Can raise ticket prices as Destor mentioned:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Dallas_Sidekicks_at_Wichita_B-52s_wide.jpg/800px-Dallas_Sidekicks_at_Wichita_B-52s_wide.jpg

[Sepholio]

Fuck that raising prices nonsense. It's expensive enough as is, especially if you want half way decent seats. Plus if they can't sell tickets now, raising prices would probably make even less people buy them.

[Tom Guycott]

That all depends on if the RAW/SD/PPV set could fit in the smaller venues, I don't see them scaling down the set for tv.


That said, many of the new 'smaller scale' arenas could definitely host WWE. When they come here to Wichita for TV they usually sell around 3k seats in a 15k venue with half the place blocked off. I've wondered why they don't just use the smaller arena in the city that seats 5k and is only a few years old instead.

Or just go over to Park City and run that building that was supposed to be part of WWW.

[slik]

That's actually the one I suggested (pic is it too)!

[#1-norm-fan]

Remember when WWE had a company they were competing with and both were packing venues like this every week?

Now WWE can't do it as the only game in town. Depressing.

[#1-norm-fan]

And ironically enough, they're relying on the guy who kayfabe bought that company 15 years ago as the headliner. Damn.

[Tom Guycott]

That's actually the one I suggested (pic is it too)!

OH, no shit? I remember it looking bigger when I got dragged to a Thunder game.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Those seats are actually filled with the Indian market.

This is a glorious post.

[Destor]

Attacking them for making efforts to grow in growing markets is dumb.......

[Big Vic]

I seriously doubt that many people bought tickets on StubHub and attempted to re-sell them.

He's saying companies will buy the tickets in hope to resell them I believe.

[Droford]

WWE is probably in the same mindset that the the NFL especially but other sports are in

Selling tickets to events every week is icing on the cake with the cake actually being the TV deal that makes them the most money.

If WWE could computer generate a crowd into an empty building (that would react EXACTLY like they want them to mind you) theyd probably start filming every week in an empty building and do that.

[Destor]

TV deal is good but the merchandising is where the money is. And the mark up at live shows in considerable.

[Destor]

Well...it was. Im not sure what you pay for a shirt in 2017

[Droford]

Its still 25 like the wweshop except WWE Shop runs deals on shirts all the time

They also dont cary 3x shirts at live shows which proves they dont know their audience

[Mr. Nerfect]

Attacking them for making efforts to grow in growing markets is dumb.......

Not if the way they are going about it is dumb. I could stand with my dick in the wind and say it's for China, but that doesn't mean that entire nation is going to buy my hot sauce.

[Destor]

The effort is still,the right call, even if execution is lacking.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It would be great if they could monetize all the BRIC nations and be on the cutting edge of emerging economies. But they just chose to Jinder Mahal the WWE Champion. *farting noise*

[Sepholio]

True Story. Everytime I hear Jinder mentioned this is the picture in my head:

https://am23.akamaized.net/tms/cnt/uploads/2016/12/Gender-Bender.gif

He's a big toughy.

[DAMN iNATOR]

True Story. Everytime I hear Jinder mentioned this is the picture in my head:

https://am23.akamaized.net/tms/cnt/uploads/2016/12/Gender-Bender.gif

He's a big toughy.

One of my favorite Futurama episodes ever. LOL The Gender Bender.

[Outsider]

If this is the problem at a PPV taping I imagine it might be a bigger issue at house shows.

Really I guess it depends on how reliant they are on ticket/merch sales as part of their income. Risk is reaction is to put up prices which further drives away customers, which then drives prices up further etc.

If they aren't really reliant on sales then it is less of an issue, but I remember reading that actually it's a pretty big element of revenue so could become a slightly more critical issue.

The fact they seem to be responding by reuniting the Shield and taking some steps to attract fans might show this could become more serious.

Be interesting to see if we see further cost cutting initiatives in future, such as releases or show set changes.

[My Final Heaven]

WWE has a PROBLEM??

http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/sdiamond2.bmp

[Emperor Smeat]

If this is the problem at a PPV taping I imagine it might be a bigger issue at house shows.

Really I guess it depends on how reliant they are on ticket/merch sales as part of their income. Risk is reaction is to put up prices which further drives away customers, which then drives prices up further etc.

If they aren't really reliant on sales then it is less of an issue, but I remember reading that actually it's a pretty big element of revenue so could become a slightly more critical issue.
Think they mitigated the problem by running a lot more house shows because of the new brand split era.

Although it does mean they have to deal with added costs because of more shows. Also they are currently averaging less people per house show this year and its at the worst whenever they run house shows at the same time as RAW and Smackdown airs.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The sky isn't falling, but the Vince McMahon has never had a colder product.

[Destor]

The sky isn't falling, but the Vince McMahon has never had a colder product.

Mid 90s was much worse

[Fignuts]

Having a ppv every two weeks can't be helping.

[Destor]

Do they still have ppvs?

[Destor]

Or is it all network specials now

[XL]

There are some pedants that would bother to separate them.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Mid 90s was much worse

Was it really? I'm willing to hear worse, but "much?"

[Destor]

They arent at risk for going belly up like they were during the hart/michaels years

[#1-norm-fan]

Mid 90s was definitely worse. The fact that they're the only game in town now and that's even a discussion though is pretty troubling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They arent at risk for going belly up like they were during the hart/michaels years

That's true. I think they're in a better position, but I think engagement with the product is very low. Comparable, at the very least.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Mid 90s was definitely worse. The fact that they're the only game in town now and that's even a discussion though is pretty troubling.

If Vince had competition, Reigns turns heel after the 2015 Royal Rumble and gets humble-fucked by Brock at WrestleMania 31. Reigns is then really cool as a heel, gets cheered and probably wins the belt at Mania the next year to a massive pop and wrestling is cool again. But Vince gets to dictate this narrative.

[Destor]

Mid 90s was definitely worse. The fact that they're the only game in town now and that's even a discussion though is pretty troubling.

I think hey have competition. NJPW amd the Indies thanks to internet a more available than ever. Die hard wresling fans in the past would have suffered tthrouh a poor product onstead of not watching anything at all.

Now they lave reasonable ways to watch what they want. Its a different market is all.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think you're technically correct, Destor, but I don't feel that there's any real loss of market for the WWE, which is why they haven't just smooshed these guys earlier. And I'm not sure if any of them are dudes who don't also religiously watch WWE too. I think the "popularity" of the independents is vastly overblown by people who are trying to help it get perceived as such.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's still WWE #1 in the sense that there is one big league and a whole bunch of little leagues. It will take a star to challenge that perception. If The Rock, for example, started his own promotion, everyone would be like "Oh, that is the new main wrestling." Then WWE would be forced to change and New Japan and all the indies would be the auxiliaries to that.

[Destor]

Im not claiming theyre about to be overtaken but i would wager that if you didnt have rhe varies alternatives in place youd have a 3.5 every monday.

Wrestling fans will watch bad wrestling if its the only wrestling available to them.

[Destor]

People will eat shit if theyre hungry enough

[Mr. Nerfect]

I just had a thought. It might be a really dumb and dangerous idea, but imagine if New Japan branded themselves "the biggest wrestling promotion in the world," on the basis that WWE doesn't consider itself wrestling? Vince has always taken the "I don't consider UFC competition" (even though it is basically wrestling). Imagine if someone no-sold him as competition.

It would make me chuckle, at the very least. And that should be the goal of any expanding business.

[Destor]

MMA is def competition

[Destor]

The only thing New Japan needs to do is increase visibility of the app and performance of the app. The people who wan that product will gravitate.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Im not claiming theyre about to be overtaken but i would wager that if you didnt have rhe varies alternatives in place youd have a 3.5 every monday.

Wrestling fans will watch bad wrestling if its the only wrestling available to them.

Okay, I completely agree with your "people will eat shit if they are hungry enough" line. I maintain that is what is happening now though. If there were another wrestling show on at the same time, I think the WWE is very beatable. I mean, it takes a while for a "brand" to get recognition, etc. TNA tried in 2010 and failed pretty miserably. There is brand loyalty, familiarity, habit and all that sort of stuff to fight against too. But if I had the direct choice between "WWE" and "not WWE," I am choosing "not WWE."

I'm not sure if the people that dropped away from that 3.5 number are watching indies, basically. That is where we disagree. I think the people who are watching indies also just so happen to catch a tiny bit of RAW each week. Of course, this is just hypothesizing -- I've got no way of knowing this. WWE is not priority programming anymore though, and if you got the people who still watched to understand that there is something else on the other channel -- not so much that you need to sign up to this internet thing and get out the credit card, etc. -- things would be very different.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The only thing New Japan needs to do is increase visibility of the app and performance of the app. The people who wan that product will gravitate.

Yeah, you are right on that. I'm just stuck on television like it's not a dying platform.

[Destor]

I def think there is .8 worth a fans that are getting their fix elsewhere

[Destor]

TV is def dying. I havent had cable in ages.

[Destor]

They arent competing for a 3 hour block on mondays any more. They are up against the X hours of entertainment i consume each week. In truth they are up against Orange is the New Black as much as they are RoH or what have you.

It not the same market as 20 years ago.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've always thought that Netflix could probably get into wrestling somehow. I think they made small steps with Lucha Underground to test the waters. They also did that GLOW show. But occasionally loading up the odd New Japan show would be interesting. Netflix feel like an entity that could instantly compete with WWE, and that anything they put up is going to be more watched than any WWE PPV, for example.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They arent competing fora 3 hous block on mondays any more. They are up against the X hours of entertainment i consume each week. In truth they are up against Orange is the New Black as much as they are RoH or what have you.

It not the same market as 20 years ago.

Absolutely agree with that.

[Destor]

I've always thought that Netflix could probably get into wrestling somehow. I think they made small steps with Lucha Underground to test the waters. They also did that GLOW show. But occasionally loading up the odd New Japan show would be interesting. Netflix feel like an entity that could instantly compete with WWE, and that anything they put up is going to be more watched than any WWE PPV, for example.

Its a stronger platform than basic cable by far

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can't see Netflix getting behind a weekly television program like RAW or SmackDown, but I think that's what appealed to them about Lucha Underground. A "seasonal" structure. If I were someone like a Paul Heyman or a Billy Corgan -- just someone who thinks about wrestling all the time and where it's next evolution takes it -- I don't think of wrestling in a weekly format anymore. It's just not how people prefer to consume anymore.

Stuff like the CWC -- with a finite commitment from both the platform and the consumer -- seems like it would be a more feasible relationship.

[Destor]

Netflix has flirted with weekly content lately with the Chelsea Handler show

[Mr. Nerfect]

That's interesting. I still think wrestling would be a different thing though. The overhead, running it week-to-week. But I suppose that's how a wrestling entity still works. I could see them going "dark" for a few months a year though. The promotion would still run, but Netflix just wouldn't air it.

[Destor]

Hard to fight spoilers like that

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, I think it would just be hands off. You come back and maybe the Tag Titles have changed hands or something. They'd probably just go weekly. I don't know what I was thinking.