Breaking News: Neville walked out of RAW, possibly quit WWE

[slik]

http://www.tpww.net/2017/10/neville-walked-out-of-raw-possibly-has-quit-wwe/


Neville was scheduled to lose to Enzo Amore last night on RAW but walked out before the show. Kalisto was put in his place and won the Cruiserweight Title instead. Ryan Satin of ProWrestlingSheet wrote that multiple people he spoke with told him Neville requested his release last night and then left the building.
More on this story as it develops.

[RP]

They better get him back. He's one of the best things they got going.

[Lock Jaw]

Say it ain't so :(

[RP]

He should be Main Eventing on Smackdown.

[Emperor Smeat]

Wonder if he got frustrated like Aries at not being allowed to move up from the division. He was great as the Cruiser champ but his reign also lasted longer than it should have because WWE was terrible at building up his successor.

[Theo Dious]

Fuck him.

[Ruien]

They wanted him to lose again to Enzo? I would walk too. He is one of like 4 things I like to watch though so this sucks. Braun, Rollins, and Sheamus/Cesaro is all.that is really left.but Rollins will be playing second fiddle to Reigns now ewwwwwwwww

[Savio]

Yeah totally dumb idea if they wanted him to lose.

[Emperor Smeat]

Rumor going around the net regarding another reason for Kalisto suddenly getting a title shot was WWE didn't think ahead with the story of Enzo's special stip. They needed a way out of it and to reset the division since they also didn't have any long term plans for Enzo in the division especially as champ.

[KIRA]

NOOO Neville was the best and most consistant heel theyve had in a long time

In fact for a while outside of Roman Neville was THE heel of the WWE

[Destor]

Talk about an ego

[slik]

I guess Billy Corgan will have his first name for NWA

[Evil Vito]

I thought that the next logical step for Neville was to be shifted back to the heavyweight roster. There really isn't anyone on Raw I was keen to see him feud with, but a trade to SmackDown could've done him wonders.

But in any event, he was far too good to be relegated to a secondary or tertiary feud in the cruiserweight division. If they told him they had no plans for him outside of the division, I 100% agree with his decision to quit. I don't agree with walking out right before a show and think he should have requested his release after the match, but I still don't blame him for wanting out of the company.

There are no shortage of places for him to go and make a really nice living.

[Sepholio]

Give him the Universal title to get him to stay. That is my solution.

[Sepholio]

Just looked into this. One random guy posted it on Twitter. Then Pro Wrestling Votes retweeted random guy. Then ProWrestlingSheet decided to just jump on the bandwagon and run with it.

Dunno how legit this story is.

[Lock Jaw]

If Kenton Lane posted it on the TPWW front page it must be true. He would never post fake news.

[My Final Heaven]

Lol, he's basically been champion & squashed every other guy on his show flat for a year, then they ask him to lose 2 matches & he takes his ball + runs home. Hilarious shit :lol:

[My Final Heaven]

Breaking: Neville comes down with a critical case of the CM Punk Blues. In a released statement, quote: "I don' wan' put nobody over. :'("

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu132/CewshReviews/WWE/Money%20in%20the%20Bank/MITB%202013/vlcsnap-2013-08-15-22h45m23s241_zpsa564141c.png

[#BROKEN Hasney]

With how frustrating Raw is to even read the results of with how bad the show is, I can't imaging actually working there. Fair enough.

[#1-norm-fan]

Lol, he's basically been champion & squashed every other guy on his show flat for a year, then they ask him to lose 2 matches & he takes his ball + runs home. Hilarious shit :lol:

Or maybe he just sees 205 Live for the gimmick show that it is and/or he doesn't wanna be part of a bland, boring, creatively-stifling product anymore.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Or maybe he just sees 205 Live for the gimmick show that it is and/or he doesn't wanna be part of a bland, boring, creatively-stifling product anymore.

Pretty much, I'm assuming it's a bigher issue than just one thing. Dude is one of the best heels on any WWE show and puts on great matches, but it was clear he was put in that cruiserweight pigeon hole and was going to stay on the D show. They weren't going to change that no matter how good his performance.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh wow, I was not expecting to read anything like this. Neville has turned into one of my favorites. I thought he would be promoted more than anything.

If there's any validity to this, then I suspect there is more to the story than simply being asked to job. Maybe the guy is just frustrated spiritually or creatively? I dunno, something about the story doesn't feel right.

I had just fantasy booked Neville to get a huge push as a stablemate to Samoa Joe and Finn Balor as part of a faction that forms close to WrestleMania in order to take out The Shield. Neville would shine in that sort of environment.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Oh wow, I was not expecting to read anything like this. Neville has turned into one of my favorites. I thought he would be promoted more than anything.

If there's any validity to this, then I suspect there is more to the story than simply being asked to job. Maybe the guy is just frustrated spiritually or creatively? I dunno, something about the story doesn't feel right.

I had just fantasy booked Neville to get a huge push as a stablemate to Samoa Joe and Finn Balor as part of a faction that forms close to WrestleMania in order to take out The Shield. Neville would shine in that sort of environment.

Probably. I imagine it's very similar to the Austin Aries thing where they know they can be bigger than what they can showcase on 205 Live, but once you're a cruiserweight, you're just stuck in that division unless Braun needs to squash somebody.

According to Meltzer, the Kalisto/Enzo match was supposed to be at the PPV with Kalisto winning, so Neville wouldn't have had a PPV payday either because the single cruiserweight slot was filled.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know if talent get money for PPVs anymore now that people don't actually buy them.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Probably right, but even then, to put on the best work of your career and then get bumped off the PPV as your division only gets one spot would fucking suck.

Feel like a Joey Styles style rant of "I'm not even good enough to work TLC?!" should be in order.

[erickman]

so when is his contract up if he has years left then he is stuck.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Talk about an ego

Right? How quickly he must have forgotten how wasn't on TV he used to be.

Sucks though. I enjoy his work.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Talented guy. Can understand his frustration. Had been working hard and was probably going to get relegated into a nobody with Enzo as the new top heel

[Anybody Thrilla]

So he could have become top face by slaying the annoying dragon.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

So he could have become top face by slaying the annoying dragon.

He couldn't have challenged Enzo for the title because of the no contact clause thing Enzo had, which is why Kalisto was going to get the shot at TLC.

Then you're still the top guy on a show people barely care about with no story development and a single PPV match slot a month and you can't seemingly move once you're in that box.

[Destor]

He couldn't have challenged Enzo for the title because of the no contact clause thing Enzo had, which is why Kalisto was going to get the shot at TLC.

Then you're still the top guy on a show people barely care about with no story development and a single PPV match slot a month and you can't seemingly move once you're in that box.
He takes two months out of the title scene to freshen things up. Boo hoo. the built a brand around him for a year.

[Simple Fan]

Can't say I'm surprised and its probably real similar to Aries situation. Don't blame the guy at all, now he can go do what he wants and how away from WWE. Being asked to job to Enzo more than once though is just too much to ask somebody. Sucks though because he was an entertaining spot on Raw.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

From Owens Instagram

https://scontent-lhr3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/22280914_355627918230509_4421897521060642816_n.jpg

[Lock Jaw]

Talented guy. Can understand his frustration. Had been working hard and was probably going to get relegated into a nobody with Enzo as the new top heel

Yeah, he will prob rake it in more on the Indies leaving while red hot instead of after he has been cooled off and made so people don't care about him again. I mean he would still rake it in, but slightly less than now maybe.

[Destor]

Yeah, he will prob rake it in more on the Indies leaving while red hot instead of after he has been cooled off and made so people don't care about him again. I mean he would still rake it in, but slightly less than now maybe.
Not sure Neville ever renewed after his first deal...how long has been with them?


If he hasnt he isnt making much...

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Not sure Neville ever renewed after his first deal...how long has been with them?


If he hasnt he isnt making much...

Hm, assuming that might be the case, the cruisers don't work house shows either which will affect his bottom line. Enzo has been since he moved over, but the division basically just does Raw and their own show.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Therefore of he can get let go and he is sharp marketing-wise, he can make way more on the indies... Making thos a smart move.

[Destor]

Therefore of he can get let go and he is sharp marketing-wise, he can make way more on the indies... Making thos a smart move.
Yeah, should be an easy pay bump

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

May be tough getting that release though.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Clearly need Konan to step in and ask them to stop holding Neville hostage.

[Destor]

May be tough getting that release though.
Thats the thing, even if they "release him" he isnt free to work whatever he wants. If he hasnt resignd though it will expire soon enough...if he has resigned then it could be awhile... releasing him nly frees him from his date commitements to them. He still wouldnt be abel to work for major competitors. He could do random indies but that would be about it.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Thats the thing, even if they "release him" he isnt free to work whatever he wants. If he hasnt resignd though it will expire soon enough...if he has resigned then it could be awhile... releasing him nly frees him from his date commitements to them. He still wouldnt be abel to work for major competitors. He could do random indies but that would be about it.

Yeah, I think they let Punk go only if he didn't got to another wrestling promotion for x amount of time. Obviously that's not an issue for him.

You never know, it could be a last ditch effort to make his position better and Vince sometimes respects these moves. He might come back in a slightly better position or at least work out the rest of his deal so he just has no extra non-compete.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Thats the thing, even if they "release him" he isnt free to work whatever he wants. If he hasnt resignd though it will expire soon enough...if he has resigned then it could be awhile... releasing him nly frees him from his date commitements to them. He still wouldnt be abel to work for major competitors. He could do random indies but that would be about it.

Yeah he still may be better off not jobbing to rich swann and drew gulak before he hits the open market... Particularly if he hasnt re signed. I imagine he hasnt re sogned though if he just walked out on them.though lol.

[Maluco]

I would have quit if they had given me that awful t-shirt too!

[Stickman]

Cruiserweight division......lol

Neville is the only one who I could maybe buy in the real division but the curse of being in the cw division will never leave him while in the E. So at this point, really who cares.

[Anybody Thrilla]

The Cruiserweight division has even been getting more shine on Raw as of late. I can't pretend to personally know how Neville's feeling, but this kinda just sucks all around.

[Emperor Smeat]

Update from the Observer via TPWW Frontpage

The Wrestling Observer is reporting that their sources confirmed to them that Neville did in fact walk out before Raw and appeared to have quit the company. However, WWE’s official line to both the Wrestling Observer and PWInsider is that Neville has not “departed” the company. This could obviously just be WWE trying to do damage control, however, or hoping to work things out with Neville. It could also just mean that Neville has not officially left, since WWE would have to grant him his actual release for that to be technically true. As of now, though, nothing seems to be confirmed for sure, so we’ll see what happens.

Basically its an Aries situation right now and WWE is likely working on the paperwork needed to enforce certain terms for Neville's official release soon.

http://www.tpww.net/2017/10/update-on-neville-walking-out-and-possibly-quitting-wwe/

[Sepholio]

It's a work. He will get released from the RAW exclusive cruiserweight contract and be signed to a normal contract on Smackdown!

[Rebecca Reigns]

Wow Neville is just like owenbrown, a crybaby.

[Destor]

It's a work. He will get released from the RAW exclusive cruiserweight contract and be signed to a normal contract on Smackdown!

That is inline with their present use of social media/dirt sheets

[Mr. Nerfect]

So there's truth to this? Something seems weird about it. I don't know why Neville, who has been smelling like roses lately, would care about dropping the Cruiserweight fucking Title. It could mean bigger and better things.

Long-term frustration makes sense. I mean, the dude is a freak in the ring and he's been bending over backwards for that division and if you show up to work and they've kind of got nothing for you in a big way moving forward, I can understand how that could be deflating. And there's that sting of Enzo bumping up 205 Live. Eyes on your product and people comparing your dick, it's possible that compounded the issue.

I'm really bummed out that my Shield vs. Finn Balor, Neville & Samoa Joe feud can't happen now. Unless it is a work, which would be cool. WWE is not this good at working people usually. They'd have him throw a fit on RAW and telegraphed it.

[Emperor Smeat]

Wouldn't be surprised if WWE views the Cruiser/205 Live like how WCW did with their Cruiser division.

Based on how its been handled, WWE probably still doesn't have a favorable stance for the division and once your in it, its pretty much the end of any future upward mobility on the success ladder.

Neville probably came to the same conclusion Aries had about him not going to succeed any higher or have the chance to do so while in the WWE.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The division has been going for a year now and Neville has been the best guy in it by far. There's no real precedent to assume that he'd not be moved out the division and used better. I dunno, something is really off about it.

Dolph Ziggler getting fed up and walking out? Yeah, I'd believe that story. But Neville has been like pushed and pushed and pushed. Yeah, the 205 Live experiment has been a fucking disaster, but that's exactly why when Vince comes up to me and is like "Kid, we're taking the belt off you tonight," I'd be like "Fucking thank you!"

There's got to be more to the story than this, because there's no way Neville is such a belt mark. Surely he would have thought "onwards and upwards."

[Mr. Nerfect]

By the way, how surreal is this 205 Live thing? Who would have thought that Vince McMahon would like a tournament so much he'd think "That has to be a thing" and he's hire all these small guys and try to push them for a year?

I enjoyed a lot of the CWC, but was it even that good. I'm not bitching about it, but as good as it was, does it warrant the "cruiserweights are hot!" ongoing response that Vince has been going with. At this stage, who even thinks about it in association with the division? I'm so fucking tired so I'm not explaining myself correctly, but it's just surreal that Vince is trying so hard to push little guys because there was this good tournament that was watched by maybe 1 million people or whatever.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

The division has been going for a year now and Neville has been the best guy in it by far. There's no real precedent to assume that he'd not be moved out the division and used better. I dunno, something is really off about it.

Unless he was asking and they said no

[Mr. Nerfect]

He reminds me of Mr. Burns hiring Frank Grimes. Only Frank Grimes is still being pushed a year later on at a nuclear plant.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Unless he was asking and they said no

Yeah, maybe, but you'd think the WWE would be more savvy than that. Remember how Triple H told Chris Masters there was a big push coming? You keep dangling the carrot. I doubt they would have bluntly said "We're done with you now." For him to just walk out? Like, you've got to be pissed or just so frustrated that you're done. That doesn't seem a reasonable response to "Yeah, you're losing to Enzo and we don't have anything for you right now."

[Mr. Nerfect]

Also, WWE has been really good for Neville as an overall performer. He's managed to ground a lot more of his game, develop a personally, etc. It's not like he's been "creatively stifled." I can understand frustration at bending your body backwards for this company and maybe feel underappreciated or that you're just pissing into the wind with the current product, but...fuck, I dunno.

More power to the dude for exercising his agency.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Yeah, maybe, but you'd think the WWE would be more savvy than that. Remember how Triple H told Chris Masters there was a big push coming? You keep dangling the carrot. I doubt they would have bluntly said "We're done with you now." For him to just walk out? Like, you've got to be pissed or just so frustrated that you're done. That doesn't seem a reasonable response to "Yeah, you're losing to Enzo and we don't have anything for you right now."

Yeah, or it could be "We're going to put you here for 2 months" and then just kept extending it. Guess we won't know until the inevitable shoot interview if he does leave.

Just an aside because I read this while reading more stuff on the Neville thing. Apparently, when Justin Gabriel quit, they called him that day and said "We were actually going to use you on Raw... Oh well".That was just hilariously petty.

[Sepholio]

I'm with Noid. Things don't add up with this whole situation. Can't accept that the best heel in the company is leaving over this.

Although in fairness, as much backstage heat Enzo has and how absolute shit he is, it would be garbage to be on the Neville level and play second fiddle to Enzo and have him be credited for why the cruisers are getting more air time.

I personally think the cruisers are getting the main event lately because hour 3 has the lowest viewers and has for a very long time.

[Corkscrewed]

^You don't have to personally think. I think it's a pretty open secret.

Maybe Neville was just pissed a shithole like Enzo got a belt (not even that he lost it, but that Enzo got it). :lol:

[Sepholio]

Can't blame him for that. Literally the worst person to put it on. Sure Enzo can talk....but that's literally it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I mean, Neville might have been feeling a lot of pressure to carry a brand. The WWE likes to think that the WWE brand name carries RAW, SmackDown and the Network, but 205 Live has kind of been under a bit more of a public microscope. And Neville is the champion there. Legit heat or not, it would be reasonable for someone to feel like they are working with less of a safety net than someone slumming around on RAW.

Vince is also apparently quite hands-on with 205, and I can imagine how frustrating that could be. Vince simultaneously wanting the cruiserweights to be "exciting," but also not wanting them to deviate from the style everybody else works too, but legitimately expecting those results would seem to be well within the scope of his character.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Can't blame him for that. Literally the worst person to put it on. Sure Enzo can talk....but that's literally it.

I don't like Enzo, but at the same time, good on them for trying something new. I mean, the dude wants to act like a star, give him the chance to back it up. And so far, in a relative sense, he's achieving that. Will it last? Probably not, because he does suck, but it's the Cruiserweight fucking Title. If I were a small guy I would be praying Vince doesn't put it on me.

[Vastardikai]

How close is Neville and Jacobs?

That could have a thing to do with it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Possibly. A Jerry Lawler/Kat situation?

[Destor]

I dont think Neville was fucking Jacobs

[RP]

Neville fucked Glenn Jacobs?

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Neville fucked Glenn Jacobs?

Jimmy Jacobs, ex-wwe writer. Got fired for posting a photo hanging out with the Superkick Twins and the rest of those morons when they invaded Raw.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I dont think Neville was fucking Jacobs

You don't think or you don't know, Destor? Do not speculate.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

From Dave "Tuna" Meltz:

What that means regarding Neville is still up in the air. Neville wasn’t back for the 10/10 show. At this point the belief within the company is that he’s gone, including one person close to the situation insisting he’s 100 percent gone. The company’s official word is that he is still with the company and never quit. At press time, this was a situation that wasn’t fully sorted out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hey, if the dude isn't happy, more power to him. The better the wrestlers outside the WWE are, the better the wrestling outside WWE will be.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And IMO guys need to be "selfish" enough to walk out. When there is a monopoly it becomes so much more important for talent to tell the only show in town that it just aint worth their bullshit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Absolutely 100% agree.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

PWinisider updates. Basically says he didn't walk out, he was never there. Wants to do a Drew McIntyre thing to build himself back up as he was never getting out of the cruisers otherwise and a souring point was being off of the Wrestlemania DVD as it affected his payday.

A few updates on the Neville-WWE situation:

*There have been reports that Neville walked out of Raw. That is incorrect. He was never on the road this past weekend as he did not work any of the live events and was not backstage, at any point, during Raw this past Monday. Mustafa Ali worked the Raw house shows, wrestling Enzo Amore, replacing Neville, who was originally slated for those shows.

*The original plan for Raw was Neville vs. Enzo Amore, but that was changed late in the day when it became known Neville would not be at the taping (possibly when everyone was made aware he wasn't going to be there, because there was discussion of making it a non-title match after it was noted Neville technically could "not have" a title shot vs. Enzo), the decision was made to go with Kalisto and put the belt on him as a way to tie him to the legacy of Eddie Guerrero, as it was Guerrero's birthday and he legitimately helped inspire Kalisto to get into professional wrestling.

*According to two different sources, Neville has pushed for a release with the idea of leaving the company and building his name outside of it, similar to what Drew McIntyre did prior to his return to NXT. Obviously, New Japan would be thrilled to have him back and he'd make a killing on the independent and international scene.

*We have been told there were several factors Neville was unhappy with. One source claimed a souring point was being left off of the Wrestlemania 33 DVD, which meant no royalties from what is traditionally the biggest selling WWE DVD of the year.

*Neville is still under contract to the company and has not been released. It is entirely possible the two sides will come to terms and he will return to the company, but as of right now, we are told he is not factored in any of the current plans for the Cruiserweight division or any other WWE brand and is not slated to travel to any house shows.

https://www.pwinsider.com/article/112868/neville-update.html?p=1

[Rammsteinmad]

At the moment, everything posted on this story has been nothing but "apparently" and "possibly" and "one source says" etc, with reports constantly changing. I'm just gonna wait until an official statement is posted or we see a future endeavor on WWE.com.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Pfft that's no fun. Whatever the case, he wasn't at Raw. That much is clear.

[Rammsteinmad]

He probably was. We all just weren't paying attention for the entire three hours.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

He probably was. We all just weren't paying attention for the entire three hours.

I mean, who would pay attention to Raw? I HAVE STANDARDS

[DAMN iNATOR]

I mean, who would pay attention to Raw? I HAVE STANDARDS

Right? I'd rather pay attention to that high-pitched sound that was played at American embassies in Cuba for 3 hours!

[Mr. Nerfect]

More power to the dude for calling his own shots, but given how good he was and how good the company clearly knows he is, I'm not necessarily sure he'll be pushed harder or better than he is now.

[Anybody Thrilla]

By the way, how surreal is this 205 Live thing? Who would have thought that Vince McMahon would like a tournament so much he'd think "That has to be a thing" and he's hire all these small guys and try to push them for a year?

I enjoyed a lot of the CWC, but was it even that good. I'm not bitching about it, but as good as it was, does it warrant the "cruiserweights are hot!" ongoing response that Vince has been going with. At this stage, who even thinks about it in association with the division? I'm so fucking tired so I'm not explaining myself correctly, but it's just surreal that Vince is trying so hard to push little guys because there was this good tournament that was watched by maybe 1 million people or whatever.

Yes. The Cruiserweight Classic was that good. Way better than Mae Young, anyway.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

CWC was the best thing WWE had done since Wrestlemania 30's main event. It was that good.

[Mr. Nerfect]

But can you imagine Vince thinking that? I mean, he's taken away all the stakes that made it interesting anyway. And now he's like "Cruiserweights! Cruiserweights are the money!" It's just really weird he'd take a critically well-received piece of business like the CWC and then sports entertainment it up on the main roster for a year with guys he clearly thinks are geeks.

At this point, I think Vince is just being stubborn. But it's just weird that he would get so invested in this dead end.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's like if there was a really great independent movie, and Vince was a producer, and he turned this independent movie into a highly publicized Hollywood remake and everyone was like "Why?" and he kept pushing through, even though every indicator was that it was horrible. It bombs, so then he makes a sequel.

Like, I admire the dude's determination, but it's so weird this is the hill he's choosing to die on.

[Emperor Smeat]

CWC was really great.

Biggest difference between the CWC and 205 Live was Vince having no hands on role with the tournament and completely having his hands all over the division even though he's terrible with lucha/cruiser style wrestling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

To clarify: My point is not that the CWC was not great. I'm just confused as to why Vince thinks it was so great as to adapt it into a weekly show. "You know what we need! Velocity!"

Vince is an odd man.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Personally, I think stuff like the CWC is what they should be putting on TV. Not in place of RAW or SmackDown or anything, but as limited run television that comes with a definite commitment. I think there are people floating around who might not be able to commit to three hours of RAW every week, and don't care to make that ongoing investment, but if they hear about a really good wrestling tournament that is going to end at some point, they might pop in.

Air that shit on Thursdays and try to launch a star from it. TJ Perkins came off really well on that. If you now know that he's going to be on RAW every Monday, people can choose whether or not they want to follow him further.

[Anybody Thrilla]

That's cool. I'm just saying that the CWC was fucking dope, and I'll take every opportunity I can to repeat that. Doesn't matter how old you are. If you saw it as a fan of wrestling at all, you'd be hard pressed to not see something special in it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I also think the WWE is leaving money on the table when it comes to PPV and the NXT Takeovers. The Royal Rumble and WrestleMania are still shows that even I would consider buying if they were on PPV, whereas I am not getting the Network until my entire perception of the company changes. I'll vote for a show, but I am not voting for the entire product, if that makes sense.

For the Takeovers, I think they should do that thing that some bands and comedians do, where they say "Look, we'll give it to you for $5 -- we know money is tight -- but if you do really love the NXT product, please pay more so we can pay the talent better, etc.," and they cap it at $80 or whatever. I would rather pay $20 for a product I want to support and hopefully one day influence change, than it just being part of a package deal with the shitty WWE stuff, even though I technically get it for free. If I'm cold on NXT, I would willingly part with $5 to watch a Takeover, because I'm sure I will see at least one good match and enjoy the presentation.

How many people do watch the Takeovers. How well are they received? I'm sure the people who watch those shows would be fine spending a bit of money on them. Some are obviously tight with money and they would just pay the $5, but others in a better situation would do what I did and pay more to support their favorite "artists," so to speak.

[Emperor Smeat]

To clarify: My point is not that the CWC was not great. I'm just confused as to why Vince thinks it was so great as to adapt it into a weekly show. "You know what we need! Velocity!"

Vince is an odd man.

Think that was always the plan with these tournaments. Only reason it hasn't happened with the UK guys yet is due to costs and women's tournament has the benefit of using NXT as a placeholder for the near future.

Triple H had an interview after the tournament detailing his or WWE's roadmap for the cruiser division and Vince pretty much failed to follow any of it. Instead Vince did a really watered down version of lucha/cruiser wrestling done in the WWE style.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Execution was poor. Honestly, I'm not even sure the Triple H idea was the right way to take it. Just let good things be good. The CWC boosted the value of tournaments -- it's why they started this Mae Young thing and could probably do something with the Dusty Classic (but it'll probably just be in NXT canon).

They could have done a CWC 2017, which they couldn't have done with the division up and going. TJ Perkins should have been focused on as a star, probably with Gran Metalik as his rival. I don't know if you use him on NXT or straight to RAW and SmackDown right away, but they got a bit "let's feature everybody" instead of telling those stories later.

That being said, I do think the women should have their own show. I think they could use the depth and hierarchy. You need a female mid-card to have female main eventers, I think. Everyone is on equal footing at the moment.

[Tom Guycott]

For me, I still think along the lines of WWE liking to hire people who make a buzz elsewhere so that they can no longer make that buzz for anything even close to competition. They don't really have any true long-term plans for many of them, but that is attention going to wrestling that isn't controlled by Vince. I feel the CWC was part of that thinking. Nobody else can build a cruiserweight division and stars within it if WWE has a majority of people making themselves synonymous with said style. Same for Women's Revolution/Mae Young Classic poaching any halfway decent human equipped with a uterus from all over the place, effectively hamstringing anyone else trying to make it a thing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think that's part of it. I also think that Triple H wants to get his developmental over, so he pushes for guys that smarks love so that he looks good. I mean, who has NXT trained that is really good? A few guys have passed through there, and they did put some good presentation touches on some guys, but do you think Sami Zayn really learnt how to work in Billy Gunn's class? Or promo? The only thing Billy really could have helped him is banned there anyway.

Keep in mind that by this point in time, OVW had already seen John Cena, Batista, Randy Orton and Brock Lesnar crowned as World Champions. I guess you can kind of give NXT Bray Wyatt and Roman Reigns. But everyone else was really somebody before FCW got them.

The guys getting signed and pushed through are the same guys that Triple H would have had stand there and look like goofs while he Pedigree'd them for funsies. I'm not sure how much of his "change" is genuine and how much is ego-driven and for vanity reasons. I mean, if it drives him to be better at generating talent, it's not necessarily a bad thing -- but I just find the WWE's "indy kick" to be interesting.

[Destor]

I think that's part of it. I also think that Triple H wants to get his developmental over, so he pushes for guys that smarks love so that he looks good. I mean, who has NXT trained that is really good? A few guys have passed through there, and they did put some good presentation touches on some guys, but do you think Sami Zayn really learnt how to work in Billy Gunn's class? Or promo? The only thing Billy really could have helped him is banned there anyway.

Keep in mind that by this point in time, OVW had already seen John Cena, Batista, Randy Orton and Brock Lesnar crowned as World Champions. I guess you can kind of give NXT Bray Wyatt and Roman Reigns. But everyone else was really somebody before FCW got them.

The guys getting signed and pushed through are the same guys that Triple H would have had stand there and look like goofs while he Pedigree'd them for funsies. I'm not sure how much of his "change" is genuine and how much is ego-driven and for vanity reasons. I mean, if it drives him to be better at generating talent, it's not necessarily a bad thing -- but I just find the WWE's "indy kick" to be interesting.I would contend that getting in peoples way and letting talents find their own footing is the key of a great teacher. Comformity was the old method.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Would you argue that they are not conforming now? Everyone seems to do the same "WWE style," which has been updated to be a lot more "indy strong style" or whatever you want to call it, but with rest holds thrown in.

I actually do think that a little resistance goes a long way. I think a lot of NXT talent are kind of facing that resistance first when they get to the main roster and realize that they may not be as prepared or as instantly over as they thought they would be.

I agree that the old "stretch 'em out, authoritarian-style" is out-moded (in life; not just in wresting). But I'm not sure if I agree that the WWE has the "key." They've got one of the only doors though.

[Destor]

there is more freeedom in the in ring product now than there has been in 20 years

[Mr. Nerfect]

In a certain direction I'd agree with you. I think less important guys have a lot more freedom. I think the more important guys probably have equal freedom. I mean, I don't think Austin wrestles differently from Seth Rollins because he wasn't allowed to do what Seth does, haha. But flashier moves from the top aren't taboo anymore, which is an obvious change. I mean, there are two or three guys using the Phoenix Splash now.

I dunno, I wish less shit was given away actually, and that things had a more organic and authentic feel to them. That is me speaking selfishly as a fan.

[Destor]

Austin didnt wrestle like Rollins because brawlers make more money :lol:


Guys today have their hand tied more where it actually matters though. Promo and character. Its flipped from where it was.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Austin was a fantastic technical wrestler. He brawled because of the neck problems.

[Destor]

Austin was a fantastic technical wrestler. He brawled because of the neck problems.
And to quote Steve Austin "I realized I could make more money with it"

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well, exactly. But I'm sure Austin had the freedom to be poor.

Agreed on the promo and character being restrained. I mean, that's common knowledge, sure, but it's pretty incredible Vince has never even just gotten bored and trialed some guys with their own shit. It's like he's got an OCD obsession with things being this stifled way.

Do you think there's anything to his aversion to stars?

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's surreal to think that Austin was told to retire in 1997. Imagine if that were today? It's probably a good thing, don't get me wrong. But to think that Bryan's "best years" could actually definitely still be in front of him is crazy.

[Rammsteinmad]

And it'll be when he finally snaps and becomes a badass brawling machine.

[Destor]

Too short, no one would buy it

[Sepholio]

I bought the last Too Short album thank you very much.

Wait, what?

[Mr. Nerfect]

And it'll be when he finally snaps and becomes a badass brawling machine.

Was thinking last night that I could see Bryan screwing Brock at Survivor Series and becoming an ally to Jinder Mahal. It's 20 years since Montreal, and if they don't want Bryan wrestling again, they might try to do something weird to change perceptions of him.

Then I thought that was stupid. Then I realized that I don't put anything past them anymore.

[Fignuts]

Do we know that Vince was super behind the cruiserweights? I could see it being something HHH was really behind, and vince merely approved it.

Also, I think TJP being the face of it to start out was a mistake. I love his work, and was pleasantly surprised by his victory, but that was all for the niche hardcore audience. The majority of fans watching raw want greay characters more than great wrestling, and unfortunately TJP showef about as much charisma as a can of tuna. Tozawa was more over just by making weird noises. I think Kendrick or gallagher would of been better choices, but instead the division was gimped from the start by putting the title on a guy that did nothing to ispire the mainstream audience to get behind him.

[Fignuts]

Probably shouldnt be too hard on TJP though. He was likely given some awful script to read from word for word.

[screech]

I hated that TJP won. He put on great matches, but he was super boring. It was a nice story of going from being homeless to winning the tournament, but he had no real character beyond that.

Maybe Vince did get behind that, knowing it wouldn't be great? lol

[Anybody Thrilla]

I was super stoked that TJP won, but I'm definitely hardcore niche guy.

[Emperor Smeat]

Do we know that Vince was super behind the cruiserweights? I could see it being something HHH was really behind, and vince merely approved it.

Also, I think TJP being the face of it to start out was a mistake. I love his work, and was pleasantly surprised by his victory, but that was all for the niche hardcore audience. The majority of fans watching raw want greay characters more than great wrestling, and unfortunately TJP showef about as much charisma as a can of tuna. Tozawa was more over just by making weird noises. I think Kendrick or gallagher would of been better choices, but instead the division was gimped from the start by putting the title on a guy that did nothing to ispire the mainstream audience to get behind him.

In terms of the CWC, that's pretty much how it went. Triple H was really behind the idea and Vince just gave his approval for costs. In terms of 205 Live, sheets have stated several times its been all Vince for hands-on approach and direction.

Biggest mistake with the CWC was having a championship be the grand prize instead of a trophy like with the Mae Young Classic. Could have still done the happy ending to TJP's life story with a trophy and crown a debut champion later with a more popular face star like Cedric Alexander. TJP's reign also came off as only happening because the other guys in the Final Four couldn't appear for the division's debut.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I liked Perkins in the tournament. I thought his story came off as super-organic and heart-warming. I mean, you weren't getting Ibushi or ZSJ, so it doesn't make sense to put the belt on either one of them. Once it's down to Perkins or Metalik -- fuck, I think Metalik is the better choice, really.

I didn't hate Perkins winning though. I thought he came off as a super-likable babyface. But then he showed up on RAW. The video game stuff and not being able to handle the weird booking did crush him. It was just never going to work that way. They probably should have gone with Perkins, just put him on SmackDown and have Kendrick attack him as a bitter heel that lost his last opportunity as greatness. Bryan's friendship with Kendrick would have added drama. Slowly introduce these personalities and let them get over before you give them a show and their own belt.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Perkins and Kendrick on SmackDown; Cedric Alexander to NXT. His story about dropping the weight was really good and he got over. The crowd there would have loved to see him go against Bobby Roode down the line or something. Could have been an NXT Champion or something.

Who else really stood out in the tournament? Rich Swann? He'd have been good for NXT too. Everyone else just sounded really solid. Jack Gallagher is someone I liked right away, but you don't want to saturate things. Perkins, Kendrick, Cedric and Swann were the four I probably would have taken right away. Perkins and Kendrick for the main roster and Cedric and Swann for NXT so some other guys could move up.

[Emperor Smeat]

Update from Sports Illustrated on the causes leading to Neville's departure from the WWE.

Sports Illustrated has an article about Neville’s situation with WWE, with it noting that Neville has been "miserable" since January and that he was unhappy when his match with Austin Aries at WrestleMania was moved to the pre-show and kept off the DVD of the event. Neville was still in the video intro for 205 Live as of last night.
Link to the article: https://www.si.com/wrestling/2017/10/18/wwe-wrestling-news-neville-bullet-club

[Loose Cannon]

The last run was probably going to be his peak in the company. I never really saw him doing anything higher then that. Even if he won the IC Title down the road, the Cruserweight King gimmick was probably still going to be his best run.

He'll be a hot commodity now on the Indies.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It probably was, but it probably shouldn't have been.

[Lock Jaw]

Hot Take: I think I enjoyed Neville's NXT Title run more than any others who have come after

[Mr. Nerfect]

Loved Neville's NXT Title run. Thought it was well booked and even told a good closing story. I felt like it was getting long in the tooth, but like that was on purpose. Sami Zayn's win and "reign" were fine for what they were. I zoned out when Balor got the belt. Joe was kind of a save, but I was disengaged by then.

But yes, Neville is my vote for "Greatest NXT Champion to date." He's also greatest WWE Cruiserweight Champion to date. Dude makes a damn good champion.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Hot Take: I think I enjoyed Neville's NXT Title run more than any others who have come after

I share your warmth then, as far as congruence. He was the most believable "heel" in a long time.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Sami Zayn was also a great foil, and that whole program planted the seeds for what I think will sustain Sami as a solid heel currently.

[RP]

Come back Neville

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/itsBayleyWWE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@itsBayleyWWE</a> tries to ask Neville for a picture and gets declined ��<a href="https://twitter.com/SashaBanksWWE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SashaBanksWWE</a> is laughing at her the whole time �� <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RideAlong?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RideAlong</a> <a href="https://t.co/Bqlt5vD2K5">pic.twitter.com/Bqlt5vD2K5</a></p>&mdash; jessica. (@jessccuh) <a href="https://twitter.com/jessccuh/status/922851300559212544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't know why, but that made me even MORE of a Neville fan. I miss him already.

[Anybody Thrilla]

"Fuck Ride Along"

:lol:

[Evil Vito]

Yeah I miss Neville. :(

Seems insane they couldn't find something else for him to do on the main roster or that they view the cruiserweight division as an impossible hole to climb out of.

I mean you've already got Enzo and Kalisto on 205 Live, surely they weren't gonna have Neville flounder in some random feud with TJP or something.

Should've moved him over to SmackDown so he could've had killer matches with heel Zayn.

[Big Vic]

I think they wanted him to job to Enzo and he walked. Good for him.

Although if he did this to some indy fed I would probably say he was a dick.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why do people hate TJP? I think he's dope.

[Evil Vito]

I mean for the purposes of my example I just picked a random cruiserweight in the division. I actually like everyone on 205 Live in the ring except for Enzo, and at least Enzo's entire character is that he's a shitty wrestler so it's whatever.

Anyway, I love TJP in the ring and his theme is boss. I want to punch him in the face every time he dabs, but since he's a heel now that's no biggie.

Wish he would shut the fuck up about his men's rights activism on Twitter, though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Holy shit, TJP is an MRA? Hahaha!

Dude came off as likable on CWC, but he's had the charisma of a fish on the main roster. In the ring he's good, but he's done. Stick a fork in him. Cut him out in the recent array of releases and he can whinge about how he lost his job because he's a man.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Neville might be back on TV from next week, as per PWI.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They obviously want to keep him. I'd want to keep him.

[Fignuts]

Damn it. Really wanted to see him in njpw

[GD]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/76873dd3aca1e2b64262facad3c2ada1/tenor.gif

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Damn it. Really wanted to see him in njpw

Tough shit to all the Meltzer Sheep!

[Fignuts]

Dave Meltzer is a faggot. I like NJPW cause it's awesome.

You hate anything Meltzer likes. You are a reverse sheep.

That's just as bad as sheep.

Mic drop.

[Tom Guycott]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/76873dd3aca1e2b64262facad3c2ada1/tenor.gif

OOHHHHNOOOOOO, OOHHHNO, OH N-no, wait, that's not Chris Hero...

Should totally form a hipster beard and glasses stable with Kassius and Bobby Fish.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Tough shit to all the Meltzer Sheep!

Who gives a shit about Meltzer? Just want to see one of the best guys in the world go up against NJPW's fantastic junior division.

[Juan]

Tough shit to all the Meltzer Sheep!

You’re just the worst, aren’t you?

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, come on STD..... you're supposed to put commas after Meltzer Sheep,,,,,,,

[Nicky Fives]

A.J. Styles v. Neville for the WWE Title for Smackdown. Just think about that.

[Heisenberg]

Why do people hate TJP? I think he's dope.



Well, he's an embarrassment to Filipinos that are not on the "dab" brand

[Danny Electric]

Talking of TJP, is he injured ?

[RP]

God wont even take credit for TJP

[Anybody Thrilla]

So none of you have said why you hate him outside of dabbing. That's it?

I don't care about him being a MRA. I'm talking about wrestling. I don't follow him anywhere else, and it's not like he has Benoit-ed anyone.

[Mr. Nerfect]

A.J. Styles v. Neville for the WWE Title for Smackdown. Just think about that.

That is exactly what I had in mind.

I don't know how positive the sentiment would be towards Neville backstage. I'm sure everybody understands his frustration. I'm honestly sure Vince does too. Enzo was a pain in the ass to work with and got rewarded. Will Neville also get rewarded? Will Vince respect him for trying to take his destiny into his hands, or will he be pissed at his defiance?

I doubt we'll see WWE Champion Neville anytime soon, but Vince might put him in "sink or swim" situations, which might give us the chance to see some great television matches. I'll go out of my way to watch Styles vs. Neville, given that I think both are in the top five most interesting workers in the company right now.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

So none of you have said why you hate him outside of dabbing. That's it?

I don't care about him being a MRA. I'm talking about wrestling. I don't follow him anywhere else, and it's not like he has Benoit-ed anyone.

I mean... Sure like him and everything. And while everyone is attributing their hate to his MRA affiliations, if he was truly likeable and captivating, it would likely have no bearing.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Styles v. Neville. Holy shit. Please.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I mean... Sure like him and everything. And while everyone is attributing their hate to his MRA affiliations, if he was truly likeable and captivating, it would likely have no bearing.

I thought he was very likeable in the CWC. That's why I like him so much. You see?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I mean... Sure like him and everything. And while everyone is attributing their hate to his MRA affiliations, if he was truly likeable and captivating, it would likely have no bearing.

It's sad, but it's true. Well, it is what it is.

People don't like Del Rio, so he's a piece of shit behind the scenes. Austin is the best, so it doesn't matter that there are very serious allegations of domestic violence in his history. TJ Perkins is a fucking dim-witted, narrow-minded, sexually frustrated piece of shit. AJ Styles is a homophobic twat, but that doesn't matter, because he's the best wrestler in the world.

I liked Perkins in the CWC too. I thought he came off as natural and somewhat charming. His wrestling was good enough. Then he got to the main roster and they gave him the 8-bit makeover. And not just in the video game sense. They do that with everyone -- reduce them to a palette-swapped sprite of a wrestler with brief cliff-notes to explain why they are in this game, if that.

I'm actually surprised they haven't fired him, given what a piece of shit he is though.

[Evil Vito]

At Hell in a Cell last year, they had Kendrick vs. TJP in a match for the Cruiserweight Title after halfway decent build where Kendrick was being a giant shithead to TJP.

Kendrick picked up a knee injury during the match. Corey Graves was openly saying it was a bluff. The viewing audience could see it coming from a mile away. The crowd booed his injury because it didn't look convincing.

The only person in the world who didn't realize it was a bluff was TJ Perkins, because WWE books all of its faces to be retarded. Kendrick successfully played possum and won the belt as the crowd booed, not because the heel did something worthy of being booed but because the face just looked like a complete dingus.

I remember in Scott Keith's review of the show he said the division and everyone in it was dead. This was only a month into the division existing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It was dead on arrival.

[Tom Guycott]

So none of you have said why you hate him outside of dabbing. That's it?

I don't care about him being a MRA. I'm talking about wrestling. I don't follow him anywhere else, and it's not like he has Benoit-ed anyone.

Personally, my dislike for TJP stems more from his "gimmick" being a shitty, forced version of what Xavier Woods has already been doing forever (I believe I actually said elsewhere he's "Xavier Woods through a corporate lens"). The dabbing just punctuated that. It doesn't even work as a heel thing for me, it just seems like he's Renegade when you already have Ultimate Warrior on the roster, or Rodney Mack when you already have Taz(z). Why bother with the derivative when you already have the superior version?

As for the MRA nonsense, whatever. That's a whole different dimension of douchenozzelry that has nothing to do with him as a talent... unless he ends up making some Briscoe-level comment that ends up catching fire and burning down his career.

As for in-ring ability, not bad. But what good is it when I don't want to see the guy to begin with? I feel similarly about Street Profits.

[Tom Guycott]

The only person in the world who didn't realize it was a bluff was _________, because WWE books all of its faces to be retarded.



I feel like this needs to be madlib-able, because it is something that can apply to some random face on nearly every WWE show.

Currently, the most often inserted answer would be Apollo Crewes.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I thought he was very likeable in the CWC. That's why I like him so much. You see?

So did pretty much everyone. Then they didn't once he was featured on the main roster.

[Ruien]

I like TJP......

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why are so many people bothered by the dab?

[#BROKEN Hasney]

He's back in the UK and his contract is frozen, like Rey's was, so everybody loses.

[DAMN iNATOR]

It's surreal to think that Austin was told to retire in 1997. Imagine if that were today? It's probably a good thing, don't get me wrong. But to think that Bryan's "best years" could actually definitely still be in front of him is crazy.

KX545f7DMck

My heart sank about a million miles when that first aired. I knew it was necessary to have him retire but that was such a sad and brutal way to do it. I'd even argue that March 31st, 2003 was one of the darkest days ever in WWE, at least up to that point in time.

[GD]

"Vengeful Bastard!"

[Maluco]

A heel Neville coming back and winning the Rumble and challenging Styles would be awesome for Mania. It would elevate the whole cruiser division too by showing that their main guy can come onto the main roster and make a massive impact.

His heel work was the best character on the roster by a distance. I loved that he kept in character too. Hate seeing Strowman taking "cute" photos with Alexa Bliss.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think it would be different. And in front of a smarky crowd it would get over in the building. But most crowds would deuce on it and nobody would give a shit because Neville while protected for a 205 guy has been an afterthrought until this point. @Maluco

[GD]

What is Deville doing in the Impact Zone?

[Maluco]

I think it would be different. And in front of a smarky crowd it would get over in the building. But most crowds would deuce on it and nobody would give a shit because Neville while protected for a 205 guy has been an afterthrought until this point. @Maluco

I get you, but in a world where noone is really that over, why not guarantee a good title match at Mania? Maybe tell us a good story over the next few months that gets people invested?

I don't think anyone challenging for the Smackdown title will make any difference to the subs tbh.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Neville would make a fine addition to SmackDown to replace AJ Styles. That show throws more shit against the wall to see if it sticks. Neville versus Shinsuke Nakamura in the wake of Mania is not going to offend anyone.

[DAMN iNATOR]

"Vengeful Bastard!"

I also DEFY you (and anyone else) to watch footage of J.R. "Quitting" WWE on the April 7th, 2003 (following week) and not bust up laughing when he says "LOUSY SON OF A…BITCH!" and when he shoved the microphone so hard into Bischoff's chest that there's a LOUD static feedback sound.