Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[Big Vic]

I think it might be a positive if we have separate thread for the movies. I feel in the future if you want to see what people thought of the latest movie you wouldn't have to go through 22 pages of posts.

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[Big Vic]

How Mark Hamill wanted 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' to end (https://www.yahoo.com/gma/mark-hamill-wanted-star-wars-force-awakens-end-140507713--abc-news-celebrities.html)

With "The Last Jedi" just over a week away, Mark Hamill recently stopped by "Popcorn With Peter Travers" to talk about the upcoming film, but also to look back at his illustrious legacy within the galaxy far, far away.

In fact, Hamill says he had an amazing idea for an alternate ending of sorts for "The Force Awakens" and pitched it to J.J. Abrams.

At the time of Solo's death, it's Daisy Ridley's Rey, Finn and Chewbacca who witness the evil act and try to save Solo, but Hamill wanted something drastically different.

"I was frustrated when I read the script and said, 'We don't have any scenes, even a brief reunion!' I objected to that. I said, 'I think the fans are not gonna like it.' I was wrong!"

Instead, fans loved the film and as Hamill points out, "there was no backlash."

But he told Abrams, "Instead of Finn and Rey coming and almost saving Han, what if it's Leia and I?"

He continued, "She's about to be abducted by two costume guards, one guard turns to the other guard, shoots the guard, takes off his helmet and it's me! That I did get her message. I said, No. 1, it's a hell of an entrance, No. 2, it's misdirection ... We're [also] back on a Death Star, very similar! We rush to his aid, we don't alter what you want to do, but if we witness Han dying, that has so much emotional resonance that will carry into the next film."

"That was my suggestion, as you see ... [it didn't happen]," he said, laughing.

But wow, what could have been.Would have been really bad.

[Destor]

we only do super threads here now. Sorry

[Shisen Kopf]

Was hoping it was going to be called the Lost Jedi and the whole movie would be a fetch quest. Last Jedi, not as good.

[Big Vic]

That was the plot of the last movie.

[Ezra]

Why is Ridley so hot in star wars garb?

[Fignuts]

Is she?

Darth Butterface

[Destor]

It works for me

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Nah bruh. She's hot.

[Kalyx triaD]

She aight.

[Ezra]

Is she?

Darth Butterface

So when I go to the request a ban thread fignuts is out of here?.

[Big Vic]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Skellig_Michael_by_Maureen_%281%29.jpg/1280px-Skellig_Michael_by_Maureen_%281%29.jpg

Hope they explain why Luke lives on this dumb island.

[Fignuts]

They have a Whole Foods.

[Ezra]

He probably eats those porgs. They are said to reproduce like I would with daisy ridley.

[Savio]

He must be lonely on that island..... Lots of fapping.



Apparently the new movie has 93% on the Tomato meter....The Force Awakens has 93% too but I didn't like that one.

[OverTaker]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Skellig_Michael_by_Maureen_%281%29.jpg/1280px-Skellig_Michael_by_Maureen_%281%29.jpg

Hope they explain why Luke lives on this dumb island.

Would you rather live by yourself on this island or in the Dagobah swamp? At least there might be good food.

[Fignuts]

Yeah, looks like it has good fishing.

[Lock Jaw]

All the juicy Porgs he could eat

[OverTaker]

Fish, porgs, fapping, and maybe some exotic fruits and vegetables...perfect for a retired old Jedi.

[Ezra]

People are going to laugh at taker's post.

I loved it. Absolutely loved it.

[Fignuts]

Just got back.

Really enjoyed it, but there were some things that rustled my jimmies.

Was slow at times, and the story didn't really flow very well. New characters didn't remotely click with me as well as characters introduced in Awakens and Rogue One.

One other thing, that I'm not going to hold against it...yet

Snoke. I love a good mystery. And Snoke is a big one. Of everything I was looking forward to in this movie, more insight into Snoke is what I was looking forward to the most. But we didn't get anything. And now he's dead. I'm not holding it against the film, because there's still another movie. It's possible the whole thing was just a trick and he's alive, or that he was a pawn and there is a greater master. Anything. But if it's not addressed, and they just let one of the most pivotal characters of the new lore get dusted with no explanation of who he is or where he came from? Hoo boy, this whole trilogy takes a big hit for me.

Despite my bugaboos, theres still a lot to like about it, and I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

Also

gonna be pissed if Rey doesn't get a double bladed sabre in the final movie. She's been fighting with a staff her whole life, IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE

[Shisen Kopf]

Movie sucked balls. Don't waste your time if you haven't seen it

[Ezra]

Total lies. Great movie.

[Fignuts]

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more things I find to dislike.

[Impeccable]

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more things I find to dislike.

I'm exactly the same. The more time passes since I saw it, the more I'm just totally unimpressed and finding things that didn't make sense.

[McLegend]

I like it. I really liked the force awakens after I saw it, and gradually liked it less. I'll see how it goes with this movie.

[McLegend]

However it seems online people really fucking hate it.

[Savio]

Does this feel like a copy of Empire strikes back? That was my problem with "Force Awakens"

[McLegend]

I would say no.

[McLegend]

There are some similarities don't get me wrong, but it's not nearly like Empire Strikes back 2.0.

[Simple Fan]

I liked it but not as much as Force Awakens.

[Destor]

Loved it...

[Destor]

Only thing that was bad was the leah scene...you know which one

[Simple Fan]

Just got back.

Really enjoyed it, but there were some things that rustled my jimmies.

Was slow at times, and the story didn't really flow very well. New characters didn't remotely click with me as well as characters introduced in Awakens and Rogue One.

One other thing, that I'm not going to hold against it...yet

Snoke. I love a good mystery. And Snoke is a big one. Of everything I was looking forward to in this movie, more insight into Snoke is what I was looking forward to the most. But we didn't get anything. And now he's dead. I'm not holding it against the film, because there's still another movie. It's possible the whole thing was just a trick and he's alive, or that he was a pawn and there is a greater master. Anything. But if it's not addressed, and they just let one of the most pivotal characters of the new lore get dusted with no explanation of who he is or where he came from? Hoo boy, this whole trilogy takes a big hit for me.

Despite my bugaboos, theres still a lot to like about it, and I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

Also

gonna be pissed if Rey doesn't get a double bladed sabre in the final movie. She's been fighting with a staff her whole life, IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE


Agreed, I was cussing Disney as it felt just like a Marvel movie where they kill off the villain too early. Was intrigued by Snoke because we knew nothing of him and now he's dead and we still don't

[Lock Jaw]

Really enjoyed the movie. There are a bunch of flaws, sure, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Destor]

Already @220 mil

[McLegend]

Has there ever been a movie that had great reviews, but was kind of hated by people like this one?

I love how there is good size portion of people who are all like "Get back your franchise, George!" :lol:

[Lock Jaw]

Haven't heard of anybody hating it

[Simple Fan]

I liked it but it didn't live up to my expectations and I think that's what most feel as well. Was good but fell short in places and I didn't leave feeling as good about it as I did Force Awakens. No way its worse than the prequels though.

[McLegend]

Haven't heard of anybody hating it

Lot of internet fan hate.

[Bad News Gertner]

SlickyTrickyDamon have you seen it yet?

[slik]

Has there ever been a movie that had great reviews, but was kind of hated by people like this one?


Probably not of this size but it's not unusual for some indy films to get good reviews and a lot of the general public hates them.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Twitter Meltdown: Rian Johnson Is Pleading With Fans Not To Watch ‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi’ Because It Contains A Shot Of His Debit Card That He Forgot To Edit Out <a href="https://t.co/U69BpUJ5QL">https://t.co/U69BpUJ5QL</a> <a href="https://t.co/js44Zulcvm">pic.twitter.com/js44Zulcvm</a></p>&mdash; ClickHole (@ClickHole) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClickHole/status/941372256114135040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Shisen Kopf]

Movie fucking sucked. 2/7

[Ezra]

Movie fucking sucked. 2/7

This post 1/125. Pure shit.

[Lock Jaw]

One thing I didn't get....

Why didn't Admiral Holdo just tell Poe her plan....... seems like they kept butting heads because Poe thought she had no plan.... so rather than just say "We are going to go to that planet and call for help" she is just all "shut up Poe, you hotheaded flyboy"

[Fignuts]

Couple other things


The comedy. The new movies have had a little more comedy than the old films, but so far it's been written into the tone of Star Wars very well, and the Jokes have been quality. Neither is true here. First off, if anything this movie should have dialed back on the humor, since the circumstances extremely dire. Secondly, the majority of it isn't even funny. It's stupid prequel comedy, not the clever bits from Awakens and Rogue. It's like they tried to make a Star Wars movie with the Marvel Formula, but it's like oil and water.

Phasma. We were told she would have a much bigger role, and those disappointed with her appearance in Awakens would be happy. Right. Apparently about 10 seconds equates to "a much bigger role".

Leia. I can accept Liea using the force to survive (even though they should have at least given a throw away line about luke giving her some training in the past) but did they have to make her shoot through space like fucking superman? It was fucking comical.

The Casino didn't feel like star wars. Felt like some other generic sci-fi thing. Also, I love animals too but get your animal cruelty agenda out of my fucking star wars movie.

[Fignuts]

One thing I didn't get....

Why didn't Admiral Holdo just tell Poe her plan....... seems like they kept butting heads because Poe thought she had no plan.... so rather than just say "We are going to go to that planet and call for help" she is just all "shut up Poe, you hotheaded flyboy"



Would have made sense if the plan hinged on only a few people knowing, but I can't see how it would. So bad writing I guess. Holdo was a completely unnesecary character as well.

[Sixx]

Ok, so I read Kylo Ren is Leia's son. The father being who?

[Sixx]

Must have been someone ugly, seeing what Adam Driver looks like.

[Fignuts]

Han Solo

[Sixx]

Oh, damn. That's one ugly baby. They should've just go with incest.

[Fignuts]

god I am still so fucking angry about snoke. Like, you didn't know anything about the Emperor, but they were just popular movies back then. Over decades they built upon the first movies with a rich history and all these rules on how everything thing works. And what makes Snoke so interesting, and such a compelling mystery, is that everything about him FLYS IN THE FACE OF ALL OF IT.

And if they really just killed him off because they didn't think he was important, not only is it lazy fucking writing, it shows a lack of appreciation and understanding of the work that has gone into building Star Wars into the entity it has become.

But we'll see I guess.

[Fignuts]

Fuck, I think I hate this movie.

[Shisen Kopf]

Worst Star Wars movie ever. And who is this Ezra lady trying to tell me otherwise?

[Lock Jaw]

Couple other things


The comedy. The new movies have had a little more comedy than the old films, but so far it's been written into the tone of Star Wars very well, and the Jokes have been quality. Neither is true here. First off, if anything this movie should have dialed back on the humor, since the circumstances extremely dire. Secondly, the majority of it isn't even funny. It's stupid prequel comedy, not the clever bits from Awakens and Rogue. It's like they tried to make a Star Wars movie with the Marvel Formula, but it's like oil and water.

Phasma. We were told she would have a much bigger role, and those disappointed with her appearance in Awakens would be happy. Right. Apparently about 10 seconds equates to "a much bigger role".

Leia. I can accept Liea using the force to survive (even though they should have at least given a throw away line about luke giving her some training in the past) but did they have to make her shoot through space like fucking superman? It was fucking comical.

The Casino didn't feel like star wars. Felt like some other generic sci-fi thing. Also, I love animals too but get your animal cruelty agenda out of my fucking star wars movie.



I actually really liked Canto Bight. Up to now in Star Wars all we've got were hives of scum and villainy. Low class establishments. Thought it was interesting to go the other way and visit a hive of fatcats and decadence.

[Bad News Gertner]

True story: I've never watched a Star Wars movie before

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

SlickyTrickyDamon have you seen it yet?

It was good to great. Some dipshit was waiving his hands during some of the movie like he was a conductor or some shit. Want to punch him in the fucking face.

[Destor]

god I am still so fucking angry about snoke. Like, you didn't know anything about the Emperor, but they were just popular movies back then. Over decades they built upon the first movies with a rich history and all these rules on how everything thing works. And what makes Snoke so interesting, and such a compelling mystery, is that everything about him FLYS IN THE FACE OF ALL OF IT.

And if they really just killed him off because they didn't think he was important, not only is it lazy fucking writing, it shows a lack of appreciation and understanding of the work that has gone into building Star Wars into the entity it has become.

But we'll see I guess.


firstly there is nothing saying snokes story is over. Death is a meanjngless aspect to force users. Cpuld easily have a both snoke and Luke tugginc at kylos thoughts.

However the death of snoke was great. I went into the film thinking he was unkillable due to the reasons youre angry over his death. So when he was killed i was surprised. It was bold written and got a real reaction from me. Its was a good call.

We do know more about him know than when we went into thanmwhen we went into the flim.

He is the otherside side of lukes coin the way rey is of kylo. Rey has implausible power with no training because the corce is trying to balance itself. According to snoke. So we can extrapolate that snoke is the same thing. They both introduce astral projection inside the same film to demonstrate this. And they both exit life together as well.

So we definitely learned a great deal that we didnt know all the while getting a good shock. Because going into this film i dont think anyone saw his death coming. instead we get the final film able to focus on the acfual villian of this story.

[Destor]

I actually really liked Canto Bight. Up to now in Star Wars all we've got were hives of scum and villainy. Low class establishments. Thought it was interesting to go the other way and visit a hive of fatcats and decadence.

Likewise. Also seeing into the war economy captured my imagination a great deal.

[Destor]

Other stuff i loved

i really hope reys parents being no one sticks. The concept that she is is no one comjng from nothing is great. Any kid watching this can imagine being the hero now. You dont need a bloodline. Woderful fairytale.

Lukes death. Him staring at two suns calling back the beginning of the story. And how that scene mirrors the final scene with the young boy looking to the stars dreaming of the same things luke once did...again then concept that anyone can achieve great things. Wonderful story telling.

[Shisen Kopf]

True story: I've never watched a Star Wars movie before

They're overrated. The original ones were good but they're not the greatest thing ever like people make them out to be.

[Simple Fan]

More I think about this movie the less I like. Feel like they just spit all over Force Awakens.

The lightsaber chuck over the shoulder was stupid and undermined Force Awakens big time. It set the tone of we dont care about the previous movie.

I thought they did a horrible job with character development except for Kylo Ren, He's the only interesting character now. Best parts were him and Reys force visions and everything involving those two was great.

Reys parents being nobodies is a huge let down though. Especilly after everything that went down with their visions. Kind of hope Abrams undermines that and makes Kylo out to be lying.

Finns mission was pointless and him and Rose are not as good together as him and Rey. Was hoping Rose was dead after stopping Finn actually.

Snokes death was cool but would mean so much more if we actually knew more about him. Him connecting Rey and Ren was a let down as well, it felt very much like a more powerful Luke/Leia connection.

Phasma suit deflecting blasters was awesome but she didn't have enough screen time, hope she's not dead.

The space float was weird. Ren holding back was good but they never really played off Ren thinking she was dead or knowing she was alive somehow. His fighters shoot and that's it, he should have felt her death and had some type of relief she wasn't dead or anger that he would actually have to kill her himself.

Alot of the comedy was just off and it felt very much like a Marvel movie. If you didn't like Force Awakens then you probably loved this movie I feel. I left liking it but not sure about it at the same time.

[Fignuts]

I actually really liked Canto Bight. Up to now in Star Wars all we've got were hives of scum and villainy. Low class establishments. Thought it was interesting to go the other way and visit a hive of fatcats and decadence.



The casino itself, I have no problem with. It was the way it was directed and written that made it feel like something else to me.

[Fignuts]

firstly there is nothing saying snokes story is over. Death is a meanjngless aspect to force users. Cpuld easily have a both snoke and Luke tugginc at kylos thoughts.

However the death of snoke was great. I went into the film thinking he was unkillable due to the reasons youre angry over his death. So when he was killed i was surprised. It was bold written and got a real reaction from me. Its was a good call.

We do know more about him know than when we went into thanmwhen we went into the flim.

He is the otherside side of lukes coin the way rey is of kylo. Rey has implausible power with no training because the corce is trying to balance itself. According to snoke. So we can extrapolate that snoke is the same thing. They both introduce astral projection inside the same film to demonstrate this. And they both exit life together as well.

So we definitely learned a great deal that we didnt know all the while getting a good shock. Because going into this film i dont think anyone saw his death coming. instead we get the final film able to focus on the acfual villian of this story.



As I said, angry as I am about it, I'm not going to hold it against the film til we know for sure.

Now as for your second point, you're absolutely right, and that stuff alone would be fine if this were some other franchise, that doesn't have the rich history of Star Wars. But it isn't some other franchise. And you can't introduce a character to a series like this, whose very existence poses so many questions, and then just kill him off without answering any of them.

If snoke really is dead, most people who are fans of the lore of star wars are going to see it as a missed opportunity, because there is so much they could have done.

If all he is, is a plot device, then I think that's really fucking lame.

[Destor]

Too early for any of that though

[Destor]

Also the moment they didnt the first joke that popped children i knew this movie would get a lot of push back.

[Destor]

More snoke talk

also the concept that by offing snoke with no back story it is effident that the writers "didnt get star wars" shows your age. Palpatine died with no back story for decades...at the end of empire you know NOTHING about the emporer other than be has lightning hands

[Fignuts]

Did you read my second post about snoke? I addressed the emporer.

[Destor]

I mean maybe, its confusing since its a sea of spoiler tags

[Destor]

Reread it and i think your comparison doesnt work. They are still just movies. Intricate back stories have all been sequestered to supplemental material up until now

[Sixx]

It was good to great. Some dipshit was waiving his hands during some of the movie like he was a conductor or some shit. Want to punch him in the fucking face.

When I went to see the 3rd part of the prequels I had some idiots cheering and jumping around when they showed Vader. Some dorks are really passionate about Star Wars.

[Sepholio]

I still haven't gone yet. Going some time in the middle of the week once school lets out so I can take my son and it not be absolutely full to the brim.

I love me some Star Wars. But guess what? I willingly read all the spoilers and am not the least bit bothered by it. It actually gives me some indication of what details to pay closer attention to. *shrugs*

[Rammsteinmad]

I just watched Rogue One last night on DVD. First time seeing it. It was good, although, I'm struggling to really get into the new films. I loved the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy, but ever since Force Awakens I've just not been interested, and there really isn't a reason why.

Still, I'll go see this Wednesday, and like Seph, I've already read spoilers, and none of it really shocks me or amazes me. Just seems like it'll be a good film and a good way to pass a couple of hours.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I too have read spoilers. I liked what I've read both on the Wikipedia page and here. I enjoy Star Wars as popcorn movies but have no emotional ties to the franchise, so any risks they take on open to.

I'll seeing it Christmas night withthe rest of my siblings.

[Sixx]

I'm no Star Wars geek but yeah I like the movies. Still haven't seen that one but am looking forward to. Probably gonna have fun cause I ain't gonna be nitpicking.

[Heisenberg]

The 3D version was noice, no spoilers, noice

[McLegend]

Just saw it a second time, and I actually liked it less than the first time. I have a feeling this movie won't grow on me.

[Lock Jaw]

I wonder what happened to Snap Wexley and Jessica Pava

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

JJ wasn't directing it. He'll probably be like

"Hey, was over here the whole time!"

[Destor]

600mil and it hasnt even opened in china yet

[Destor]

This will crack 1billion for sure.

[Destor]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25446329_2002631713327074_8140440795358605133_n.jpg?oh=577ccb7016d63bf2e4a234ba976c7757&oe=5AC486FF

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25446329_2002631713327074_8140440795358605133_n.jpg?oh=577ccb7016d63bf2e4a234ba976c7757&oe=5AC486FF

Very dickish. I love it

[Damian Rey 2.0]

So I really liked it. My only gripes were Poe's subplot, which became kinda moot, and Rey and Finn's romance maybe being pushed aside maybe.

I like Ren. I like his inner conflict, and that he seemingly forces himself to be evil even though he probably isn't.

This felt very much like a hard ending. No cliff hangers or anything. Which exites me because it'll give the creative team a clean slate to close out the trilogy in the next one.

[Kalyx triaD]

This was alright. Not the PC cringefest people were making it out to be. Rey demoted from Mary Sue to an actual protagonist worth rooting for.

Can't shake the feeling that they were setting up some daring story beats only to play it straight by the end:

- Rey and Kylo switching sides would have been amazing.
- Luke being overly vigilant against new Sith Lords would have been wild.
- Poe staging a coup over the Resistance for being too soft would have had thematic call backs to Rogue One showing darker sides of the good guys.

Literally all of that was swerved as misunderstandings, red herrings, or just rendered moot. Shame.

Snoke chewing out Kylo for losing to Rey last time was meta. Glad they acknowledged that. In fact there's a lot of evidence that they specifically depowered Rey in comparison to Force Awakens.

Seems some retooling of Luke's personality was required for him to fill the cranky old mentor role but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. However, I agree with Hamill that basically everything is inconsistent with who we got to know long ago. But whatever.

Probably should have played straight 'that scene' with Leia cause they are in one hell of a box right now.

Needed more Evil BB8. Very surprised not getting a showdown.

Everything about the Casino and the hacker was cutting room floor material. Complete waste of time.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Yeah I agree with that last paragraph, only because Holdo's motive completely negated that entire part of the story.

I think they did a good job of explaining why Luke went the way he did. We have to remember that he wasn't really a Jedi master. He stumbled his way into being the chosen one, and wasn't trained or brought up the way his predecessors or even Ren was.

I agree with toning Rey down a lot. It worked better and made more sense. I liked the conflict between the two. Maybe a double turn is inevitable? That'd been fucking amazing actually.

[Kalyx triaD]

To be totally honest what I would have done with Rey and Kylo:

After they beat the honor guards Kylo would wonder how to move forward and blah blah I killed my dad, saw my mom 'die', there's no redemption for me because of this war. He asks Rey who was rooting for Kylo's faceturn for half a movie, how does he move forward.

And boom, wideshot of Rey fixated on Snoke's throne. She turns around and reveals her repressed memories of her parents being actually assholes but if they claim the First Order, she can create her place in the story by ending the war. Kylo disagrees.

And from there we completely flip shit. But that's me.

[Destor]

I totally understand why that isnt an option though. Rey is their in for girls ages <13. This is a big part of their business model for star wars going forward. Not only gettting the audience younger (marketing star wars to 40 year old males is not wise afterall) but bringing in girls to the fold as well. Rey is the center piece of that strategy.

[KIRA]

I dont understand what the complaints are about I deeply enjoyed that

[KIRA]

The whole thing revolving around letting the past die and the idea that your orgins don't fucking matter well done

[Destor]

It was my favorite part of the film. Telling the audience you, who come from nothing, can be anything. It was great. Really great.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Agreed with both of you

[KIRA]

Because Ive always said this quote belonged in a much better movie

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[Simple Fan]

The whole thing revolving around letting the past die and the idea that your orgins don't fucking matter well done

That's nothing new as Jedi didn't reproduce. I think they should get rid of the jedi religion if they are letting the past die and they very well could. I don't think Rey will agree with alot of the Jedi beliefs.

[Destor]

That's nothing new as Jedi didn't reproduce. I think they should get rid of the jedi religion if they are letting the past die and they very well could. I don't think Rey will agree with alot of the Jedi beliefs.
It is definitely someting new. Its new because 8 out of 8 star wars films have been about the legacy of one blood line.

[Simple Fan]

I get what you mean but that's not how the Jedi worked is what I'm saying. In my opinion the prequals did the same thing.

[Destor]

The lore from the books have never impacted the films. Jedi not fucking has never been more than trivia save the scandal of Anikan getting his fuck on.


This story has always been about a single family. To take Rey and say she is no one opens the universe in a way that is fresh, exciting and bold. Everything people complained that 7 wasnt funny enough.

[Sixx]

NERDS!

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Don't forget the end with the kid in the stable. Seemingly using the force to pull the broom towards himself

[Destor]

Don't forget the end with the kid in the stable. Seemingly using the force to pull the broom towards himself
Exactly. Its building off this new universe where the force isnt for the elite chosen the force is for everyone.

[Destor]

That's nothing new as Jedi didn't reproduce. I think they should get rid of the jedi religion if they are letting the past die and they very well could. I don't think Rey will agree with alot of the Jedi beliefs.
Also that is exactly what the tree burning symbolized. All of the jedi code is gone now.

[Simple Fan]

Also that is exactly what the tree burning symbolized. All of the jedi code is gone now.

Rey took all the books, it shows them on the falcon at the end.

[Destor]

Rey took all the books, it shows them on the falcon at the end.
Symbolism


sym·bol·ism
ˈsimbəˌlizəm/<input width="14" height="14" type="image" src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8Yf jMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg=="><audio src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/dictionary/static/sounds/20160317/symbolism--_us_1.mp3" preload="auto" data-dobid="aud"></audio>
noun
noun: symbolism


the use of symbols to represent ideas or qualities.

[KIRA]

That's nothing new as Jedi didn't reproduce. I think they should get rid of the jedi religion if they are letting the past die and they very well could. I don't think Rey will agree with alot of the Jedi beliefs.

The idea that the Jedi order is shit has been gaining steam for a long while now the emphasis has shifted toward balance rather than pure light or pure dark

I'm thinking Jedi Order is pretty much dead and the new class are going to be more or less grey

[Destor]

Which reflects societies shift on morality in the past 40 years

[KIRA]

Which reflects societies shift on morality in the past 40 years

Also see: Darth Treya I love her whole outlook

[wwe2222]

The idea that the Jedi order is shit has been gaining steam for a long while now the emphasis has shifted toward balance rather than pure light or pure dark

I'm thinking Jedi Order is pretty much dead and the new class are going to be more or less grey

I dont necessarily think that is the case. Luke ends the movie by saying he wont be the last jedi. I think his intent (assuming he reappears as a force ghost) is to rebuild the Jedi order rather than say the Jedi Order is dead.

[Kalyx triaD]

Taking Rebels into account, it seems Disney overall wants to reboot/reevaluate the Jedi/Sith conflict.

[KIRA]

I dont necessarily think that is the case. Luke ends the movie by saying he wont be the last jedi. I think his intent (assuming he reappears as a force ghost) is to rebuild the Jedi order rather than say the Jedi Order is dead.

But Grey Jedi are a thing(at least in legends continuity)

They might still be a thing if Ashoka is any indication

Small observation may not mean anything Luke was wearing light and dark robes when he was facing First Order

[Destor]

I dont necessarily think that is the case. Luke ends the movie by saying he wont be the last jedi. I think his intent (assuming he reappears as a force ghost) is to rebuild the Jedi order rather than say the Jedi Order is dead.

Itll rebuild but the old ways are gone. The religion aspects wont exist going forward. Id stake anything on it. The blue v red aspects will be less prevelant going forward

[Mr. JL]

This was definitely not the movie I was expecting.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

What's your take on it?

[Jordan]

I don't want the public opinion to sway my enjoyment of the movie. It's a very good movie, not perfect and above any of the Star Wars movies 4-7 is probably the most faulted as a film. However I really enjoyed the ride and feel that it may be appreciated more after the next one is released.


I will say that I'm tired of this war, something needs to change. I really felt a strong heel turn from Rey teaming with Kylo in a shades of grey heel vs shades of grey baby face Luke and Luke ending the film as hero again. That would have been Star Wars fresh but they kept in the cannon and did what they did.

I though Lea's use of the force was awesome, she's a fucking Skywalker and she was never trained that we saw so her use of the force is instinctual and not the same as any of the male Jedi we have seen.

[Blonde Moment]

Jedi did a good job with tearing everything down and raises more questions than answers. I understand the complaints about the casino but aside from the chase it worked for me. Sometimes a bad person is just a bad person and we got used to seeing bad people with hearts of gold..

[Kalyx triaD]

DJ's not bad though. He did save Finn and Rose when he had no reason to. I think the idea is he's the Han Solo archetype played straight. But push come to shove he's probably redeemable in the future, if the price is right. Then again it's best he doesn't run into Finn and Rose again.

[KIRA]

I don't want the public opinion to sway my enjoyment of the movie. It's a very good movie, not perfect and above any of the Star Wars movies 4-7 is probably the most faulted as a film. However I really enjoyed the ride and feel that it may be appreciated more after the next one is released.


I will say that I'm tired of this war, something needs to change. I really felt a strong heel turn from Rey teaming with Kylo in a shades of grey heel vs shades of grey baby face Luke and Luke ending the film as hero again. That would have been Star Wars fresh but they kept in the cannon and did what they did.

I though Lea's use of the force was awesome, she's a fucking Skywalker and she was never trained that we saw so her use of the force is instinctual and not the same as any of the male Jedi we have seen.

I think they started clean everyone who needed to die in the old Star Wars universe is dead.

[Destor]

No...there is another

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

You sah are mistaken. Jar Jar binks lives forevah sah.

[Shisen Kopf]

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/66271095/embrace-the-suck.jpg

[Mr. JL]

I expected some answers to the basic questions that 'The Force Awakens' sparked. Instead we got bullshits and swerves.

Who is Supreme Leader Snoke? Never mind, we prematurely killed him off... just like we did with Darth Maul because that worked out great. SWERVE

I also disliked nearly everything they did to Luke Skywalker's character and what/where he been. BULLSHITS & SWERVES (They did answer some questions here but I thought they just sucked. Whoever wrote this shit should be fired).

Rey's parents sold her for booze? BULLSHITS
Where did Rey learn all her Jedi shit from without any training? CUZ POWER

Finn might as well have not been in the movie. BULLSHITS

Leia has some Jedi powers but only uses them to save herself. BULLSHITS

Han Solo's death seems like a forgotten afterthought they barely touched upon or did anything to make it stand out for the characters it would matter to.

HOPEFULLY this movie is simply a filler movie until we get to the third movie and they actually answer some of those questions without the bullshits and swerves but I doubt it because now there are too many questions to answer in just one movie without everything feeling terribly rushed, haphazardly thrown together and for them to still progress the current mess of a storyline, action and plot.

This movie should have answered some of these questions and then those answers lead us into the next movie. Instead we just got more questions, bullshit answers and if this was any franchise besides Star Wars... I don't think people would have any reason to give a fuck about the next movie.

We got Porgs though, Yay! It gives Chewbacca something to do.

But its Star Wars... people will buy it no matter what. It will make a billion dollars so just make it and take the money.

[Sixx]

So how did Han Solo die?

[Sixx]

Haven't seen the movie yet, only read the synopsis.

Can someone please explain to me what the fuck "exhausted Luke vanishes into the Force" means?

[wwe2222]

I expected some answers to the basic questions that 'The Force Awakens' sparked. Instead we got bullshits and swerves.

Who is Supreme Leader Snoke? Never mind, we prematurely killed him off... just like we did with Darth Maul because that worked out great. SWERVE

I also disliked nearly everything they did to Luke Skywalker's character and what/where he been. BULLSHITS & SWERVES (They did answer some questions here but I thought they just sucked. Whoever wrote this shit should be fired).

Rey's parents sold her for booze? BULLSHITS
Where did Rey learn all her Jedi shit from without any training? CUZ POWER

Finn might as well have not been in the movie. BULLSHITS

Leia has some Jedi powers but only uses them to save herself. BULLSHITS

Han Solo's death seems like a forgotten afterthought they barely touched upon or did anything to make it stand out for the characters it would matter to.

HOPEFULLY this movie is simply a filler movie until we get to the third movie and they actually answer some of those questions without the bullshits and swerves but I doubt it because now there are too many questions to answer in just one movie without everything feeling terribly rushed, haphazardly thrown together and for them to still progress the current mess of a storyline, action and plot.

This movie should have answered some of these questions and then those answers lead us into the next movie. Instead we just got more questions, bullshit answers and if this was any franchise besides Star Wars... I don't think people would have any reason to give a fuck about the next movie.

We got Porgs though, Yay! It gives Chewbacca something to do.

But its Star Wars... people will buy it no matter what. It will make a billion dollars so just make it and take the money.

Total swerve when they killed off the Emporer in Return of the Jedi. They should’ve answered all the questions about him.

[wwe2222]

Haven't seen the movie yet, only read the synopsis.

Can someone please explain to me what the fuck "exhausted Luke vanishes into the Force" means?

Luke force Projects himself onto another planet. They set this up earlier in the film that doing this that far across the galaxy you would have to be very powerful to do it and it would most likely kill you.

[wwe2222]

These movies are centered around the Force. The Force has been pretty dormant overall since Revenge of the Sith. It is now awakening across the universe. This is a major point to both films. Ren is extremely powerful but on the dark side. Darkness rises and light to meet it. Where you have Ren you must have a Rey.

[Shisen Kopf]

So how did Han Solo die?

He got shot in a drive by

[Sixx]

Luke force Projects himself onto another planet. They set this up earlier in the film that doing this that far across the galaxy you would have to be very powerful to do it and it would most likely kill you.

So does he die?

[wwe2222]

So does he die?

Essentially yes. He vanished like Obi Wan and Yoda do when they die. All signs point to Luke now being dead (but he goes out as a major heroic symbol for the resistance)

Technically they can have out if they want to since his metal hand should’ve stayed behind but didn’t.

This ending and the scenes on the casino planet were my only gripes with the movie. I wanted more from Luke. I expect he’ll be a force Ghost in 9 but wouldve likes to have seen more.

[LuigiD]

Total swerve when they killed off the Emporer in Return of the Jedi. They should’ve answered all the questions about him.

While I agree with this statement, the scenarios are not really the same.
By the time Ep. 7 came out, we had already established a much larger cinematic universe that encompassed 6 movies instead of just 3.
With the exception of the clues given to us in some of the visual guide books or newer novels, extremely little is known about how the Empire survived and managed to become the Fist Order...that is where Snoke came in.
We're told that he is ancient and very powerful, it is given the impression that he has been pulling strings for a long time. He might at some point have even communicated with Palpatine in some capacity and Snoke appears to be responsible for the survival of the Empire remnants..which became the Fist Order.

Supposedly, he led them through the uncharted space where he allowed them to re-group. All of this seems pretty significant to me, specially the ancient evil part. How long has this guy been around? has he been plotting shit all along in the common universe? maybe we will find out.

I don't think the movie is bad but it suffers from some "bad movie" elements. I am not a fan of wasted characters, in the same way that I didn't like Hicks and Newt getting killed off like they're nothing in Aliens 3.

[Destor]

While I agree with this statement, the scenarios are not really the same.
By the time Ep. 7 came out, we had already established a much larger cinematic universe that encompassed 6 movies instead of just 3.
With the exception of the clues given to us in some of the visual guide books or newer novels, extremely little is known about how the Empire survived and managed to become the Fist Order...that is where Snoke came in.
We're told that he is ancient and very powerful, it is given the impression that he has been pulling strings for a long time. He might at some point have even communicated with Palpatine in some capacity and Snoke appears to be responsible for the survival of the Empire remnants..which became the Fist Order.

Supposedly, he led them through the uncharted space where he allowed them to re-group. All of this seems pretty significant to me, specially the ancient evil part. How long has this guy been around? has he been plotting shit all along in the common universe? maybe we will find out.

I don't think the movie is bad but it suffers from some "bad movie" elements. I am not a fan of wasted characters, in the same way that I didn't like Hicks and Newt getting killed off like they're nothing in Aliens 3.
The scenerios are identical. Its you that changed.

[wwe2222]

I’ll also point out that I can’t stand that everything in today’s culture needs an explanation so that stuff doesn’t really bother me much. Great if they do it but not something I think needs to be applied to all situations.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I don't get why Snoke getting killed off is such a gripe. Sure he's somewhat interesting, but Ren's internal conflict, Rey being a nobody symbolizing the force is for everyone, and their obvious bond but conflict is far more interesting than an scarred bad guy who was pulling the strings.

We knew absolutely jack shit about the Emperor in three original trilogy. Other than he had lighting hands and was calling the shots.

Ren is far more interesting and for me, the best new character they've introduced. He's not a typical bad guy. They've been pushing his inner struggle since the first film. It's my fave running storyline.

[Destor]

Im really into reys symbolism

[Fignuts]

The scenerios are identical. Its you that changed.

The scenario being the same has nothing to do with why it's a problem for people. Yes, it's the same.

But the Emperor's presence didn't create a bunch of questions from viewers, because you had literally no knowledge whatsoever, of what took place before the movies. It was a blank slate, and you can get away with mysterious, all powerful characters, without explaining anything.

But now, there is a history, and that history creates questions about snoke's existence become harder for people to ignore.

I honestly don't think there is any point in debating this anymore though. The difference between people who are bothered by this, and the people who aren't comes down to how we watch these movies and how invested we are in the overall lore, and how that is presented in the films. Some people are going to care, some aren't.

[Destor]

Justshows how young you are

[Destor]

"Emporer didnt create a bunch of questions"

Sure kid

[Fignuts]

I remember wondering about his origins, but I din't feel like I needed the answers because there was literally nothing before those movies.

In this situation, if you take a look at the star wars story as a whole, there is a part in the middle that is completely missing. It would be like watching a New Hope, and then skipping to Jedi. That's what it feels like to me, seeing all this go down with no explanation of snoke and how he built the first order. I didn't need my questions on the emperor answered.

[LuigiD]

The Emperor's presence didn't create a lot of questions, that is a valid statement. The movie isn't a fucking nuclear bomb but for us that expect a bit more from the lore it is rather disappointing.

I think Fignuts hits it perfectly, for some people throwing characters away is not a problem and for others..it is.

I work as a media analyst for a TV marketing firm so I see plenty o f storytelling...and I have been a fan of the saga for quite some time and have the credentials to show it considering that I was interviewed for the local paper to showcase my collection. I care about the lore..be it Snoke, Darth Maul, etc.. and in that..I am not a fan of characters being thrown away and perhaps the most..disappointing thing that has come out of this movie is the "us" vs. "them" mentality that has grown out of the fan community. For some folks, if you didn't like it you are an unbearable fan boy and if you did..you are a genius.

The movie is a not trainwreck but is no masterpiece either. There are a lot of cool moments. As Anthony Daniels pointed out before the TFA..its kind of hard to capture the magic of something so strongly the second time.

[Fignuts]

Never mind the fact that they took what could have been a great villain with interesting motivations and a backstory that ties to previous films and characters, and who strengthens the star wars story as a whole, but instead we get a throwaway character who is incredibly adept at the force BECAUSE REASONS, and in the end, is about as necessary as Admiral Holdo.

[Destor]

Holdo was the worst

With that said both of you are toonyoung to have a calid opinion how how people reacted to the emporer. Figgy was 1 years old and Luigi wasnt sperm. Its literally the same. Its themsame conversations 30 years later

[Destor]

I have lived this twice now

[Destor]

Except now i get to listen to an infant and someone who was prehuman tell me it didnt happen, which is an added bonus

[Fignuts]

I remember wondering about his origins, but I din't feel like I needed the answers because there was literally nothing before those movies.

[Fignuts]

Like, ok people asked questions about the emperor when the films came out. I fail to see how that helps your argument that snoke isn't horribly wasted potential.

[Destor]

You remember wondering when you were 1. In other words you remember nothing because it never happened.

Snoke enhanced the story between the characters he was meant to and the star wars tradition of mysterious villians lives on. You guys who are new to the party seem offended by this.

[Fignuts]

Destor, do you not know what a VHS tape is?

[Fignuts]

Also comparing characters like Boba Fett, Maul, and Greivous to Snoke is ridiculous.

In previous films, those characters were just henchmen to the big bad. Their origins were mysterious, but what you did know about them made sense.

Snoke IS the big bad, and everything about him flies in the face of the saga's history. Which is fine as long as you FUCKING EXPLAIN IT

[Damian Rey 2.0]

He's clearly not the big bad. And as a kid born in the 80s, watching Star Wars as a 10 year old, I never questioned origins about the Emperor because I was too young to care.

Even now watching it, however, it's pretty clear that he's nothing more than a plot device tugging on Vader, pulling him to the dark side to combat Luke trying to pull him back to the light.

The heart of the trilogy was Luke and his father's conflict. The emperor was a tool to help that story. Just like Snoke is a tool to help the story between Ren and Rey.

[Destor]

If you think snoke is the big bad you dont get it.

Comprehensive list of star wars villains withback stories given in films:

Darth Vader and Emproer Palpatine.

Vader got his in 5 and 6 and expanded on in 1-3. Palpatine in 1-3.

In other words most back story in the franchise comes 30 years after the characters die.

[Destor]

Maybe in 2050 youll get this snoke story you want so bad

[Destor]

And the only thing vader got in 5 and 6 was his last name. That was it.

[Destor]

IF YOU WANT BACKSTORY READ SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIALS. Thats how its been since 1977.

[Fignuts]

I mean, he's the big bad in the sense that he's the one pulling the strings. Obviously Kylo is the main villain of the trilogy.

[Kalyx triaD]

If this new generation of Star Wars and its fanbase are just cool with not caring about huge details like Snoke and the First Order's rise than that's further proof that perhaps this franchise just ain't for me anymore.

There's a pretentious vibe around the main series so far with fans giving stunts passes (Rey's OP? So what! Snoke? Just a plot device, you're just a baby when Sedious debuted!), there's not gonna be sensible improvement. Especially as said that you're painted as 'not getting something' when you criticize such glaring mishaps (a trait previously inclusive to DCEU diehards).

I'll watch Eps9 and Solo and whatever else, but the brand is slipping off of my top tier list of things I dig. It's just not my jam anymore. I'll just stare at the twin sunset.

[Fignuts]

Again, this comes down to how people view these movies and star wars as a whole.

When I saw the original trilogy for the first time, sure I was curious about Vader and Palpatines backstory. But I didn't feel like I needed that information because those movies were all there was.

But now you've got 6 movies that have established a history, and the rules that said history plays by. So when I watch the new movies the questions I have have DO need to be answered, because otherwise the overall Star Wars story doesn't make sense. And that's why this is such a divisive topic. Because you have people who only care about judging the movie on it's own merits and how it evolves it's characters, and then you have people like me who see it as a small part of a whole, and have a problem if something doesn't fit in that bigger picture, even if it effectively strengthens other characters in the movie.

And you can try and argue that's on me, but frankly that's bullshit. The people that write this know that it's a part of a larger picture, and ignoring that and creating a plot device that contradicts that larger picture just because you're too lazy to think of anything else, is bad writing.

[Destor]

If this new generation of Star Wars and its fanbase are just cool with not caring about huge details like Snoke and the First Order's rise than that's further proof that perhaps this franchise just ain't for me anymore.

There's a pretentious vibe around the main series so far with fans giving stunts passes (Rey's OP? So what! Snoke? Just a plot device, you're just a baby when Sedious debuted!), there's not gonna be sensible improvement. Especially as said that you're painted as 'not getting something' when you criticize such glaring mishaps (a trait previously inclusive to DCEU diehards).

I'll watch Eps9 and Solo and whatever else, but the brand is slipping off of my top tier list of things I dig. It's just not my jam anymore. I'll just stare at the twin sunset.
...new generation says the child who didmt live it until vhs and who now who wants them to not be authentic to themselves. The films havent changed, you have. Maybe you dont like the formula, thats fine, just dont act like its the films fault. Theyre just doing what they have for decades.

[Destor]

If youve out grown star wars thats fair but theyre super consistent films

[Damian Rey 2.0]

There's very little detail given about the Empire's rise in the original film from what I recall. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't remember too much more than a general summary as to why they were there. The Emperor isn't seen until the second, and isn't a major player till the 3rd.

Even then, he's not the main villain. Vader is. Whether people like it or not, the Emperor was a tool to develop Vader as a character and give him a moment of redemption.

That's all Snoke is. A tool to further the plot and give the real main characters, Ren, who's clearly the big bad, and Rey something to do. Not to mention, trilogy isn't over yet. We don't know what they plan on doing in the next film. Snoke could very well be explained, even if briefly, in the next one.

Hinting at Ren's fall to the dark side has been a running storyline that's now played out but has not been completed in the last 2 films. But he's clearly the big deal here. Much like Vader was. Not the guy sitting in the chair barking orders at them.

[Fignuts]

You're right. Star Wars has always been poorly written. Should of expected it would be shit.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Little dramatic there.

[Destor]

You're right. Star Wars has always been poorly written. Should of expected it would be shit.

Thats fair. Like most childrens films the writing is suspect

[wwe2222]

To each his own. Killing Snoke reshuffled the deck for episode 9. Killing him was the next step for Ren. He killed Snoke. He killed Han. He is unshackled.

If you want to complain about wasted characters I’ll give you Phasma.

Rey’s parents being nobodies is an answer. It may not be the answer you thought but it’s an acceptable answer that works with Rey’s character and the setup of this film.

[Destor]

Phasma is def the fett of this cycle. Character you want to be cool but isnt.

[Kalyx triaD]

...new generation says the child who didmt live it until vhs and who now who wants them to not be authentic to themselves. The films havent changed, you have. Maybe you dont like the formula, thats fine, just dont act like its the films fault. Theyre just doing what they have for decades.

That's absurd. Not being old enough (to what btw? Gauge public review of the first trilogy to contrast the new ones? What?) didn't mean I wasn't able to understand initial criticisms of the prequel trilogy. Anymore than it makes me unable to review Prometheus in the context of the Alien saga because 'I didn't exist when Alien launched'. That is a piss poor dodge to excuse whatever issues I have when a long enough franchise starts skirting its own ruleset.

Nor is it even the save you want it to be; by today's story telling telling standards Rey would still be poorly written in TFA, Snoke would still be panned as a wasted villain (something no franchise even the MCU can get away with), and the retooling of how the Force works becomes nonsensical. Taken in a vacuum, it still doesn't work. So miss me with the 'you were too young to get it, but you're also now too old for it' line. Please. That alone is inconsistent.

You like it or accept it. Cool. Whatever. But don't go pretending we (Kalyx and Fignuts!) don't understand something about Star Wars. You are much better off saying you like it and don't care about things we're pointing out.

[wwe2222]

The retooling of the Force is by far the best thing they’ve done.

[Destor]

That's absurd. Not being old enough (to what btw? Gauge public review of the first trilogy to contrast the new ones? What?) didn't mean I wasn't able to understand initial criticisms of the prequel trilogy. Anymore than it makes me unable to review Prometheus in the context of the Alien saga because 'I didn't exist when Alien launched'. That is a piss poor dodge to excuse whatever issues I have when a long enough franchise starts skirting its own ruleset.

Nor is it even the save you want it to be; by today's story telling telling standards Rey would still be poorly written in TFA, Snoke would still be panned as a wasted villain (something no franchise even the MCU can get away with), and the retooling of how the Force works becomes nonsensical. Taken in a vacuum, it still doesn't work. So miss me with the 'you were too young to get it, but you're also now too old for it' line. Please. That alone is inconsistent.

You like it or accept it. Cool. Whatever. But don't go pretending we (Kalyx and Fignuts!) don't understand something about Star Wars. You are much better off saying you like it and don't care about things we're pointing out.
On NUMEROUS occasions it has been claimed in this thread that somehow this is different than palpatine. And it absolutely isnt. The only thing that has changed is you. The aging viewer. Who clearly has no concept now as to who the demo is. Yiu are older, grumpier to boot, and think this film needs to gear itself toward a more die hard audience.

It doesnt. Infact it would probably kill the franchise. The films have never been for hardcore staf wars nerds, a fact the star wars nerds have never been able to get a good grip on.

If you dont nerd rage for palpatine you cant for snoke. The standards,despite your best claims, havent changed. I know this because ever kid in the theater fucking loved the film.

If the franchise isnt for you anymore than just admit it. But dont ask it to change to suit your ever changing needs.

[Destor]

The variable is the viewer not the writing

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Obviously too young to have lived thru it, but where there complaints are the swerves the 2nd and 3rd film threw at the audience at time of release?

Like, were people upset at the "
..I am your father" like coming out of nowhere and rendering the "he murdered your father" line in the first film useless?

Were people upset that the Emperor was tossed to his death with little backstory? Legit curious.

[Kalyx triaD]

@ wwe

Except it makes what Darth Plagus did impossible. And the Skywalkers, who were supposed to be the connective tissue of the series due to their affinity to the Force (itself potentially because of what Plagus did), is now like... just people the Force choose to be that strong?

I have no issue with this 'avatars of the light and dark' neo/smith thing got going with Kylo and Rey. I'd even accept Rey getting so strong BECAUSE Luke cut himself off for years, forcing the Force to choose a new avatar for the light. It would even explain her being OP and add more credit to Rey actually sympathizing with Kylo during their magic snapchats.

But I guarantee I've just put more thought into it then they did just now.

[wwe2222]

Jedis have been around for thousands of years. There were many Jedi heroes long before the Skywalkers.

There were sith long before the Empire. I don’t get your point.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I'm not a hardcore Star Wars fan. I loved the last 2 films. And TLJ is prob my second fave, right behind Empire.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Was Dark Plagus mentioned before the prequels? That'd be pretty cool idea to expand on in their spinoff series

[Kalyx triaD]

The variable is the viewer not the writing

Asking them to make sense of Snoke is not a die hard fan notion. My issues with their vehicle design and lightsaber choreography is nerd shit. Here I'm just saying using Snoke as a miniboss with no kind of context is lame. Even if this was a new franchise. He was clearly played on his mystery last time. He'd never be presented that way if they knew he was gonna get put down without so much as a motivation speech.

Like, were people upset at the "
..I am your father" like coming out of nowhere and rendering the "he murdered your father" line in the first film useless?

Were people upset that the Emperor was tossed to his death with little backstory? Legit curious.

Vader being Luke's father is a historic twist that paid off Obi-Wan's comments the movie before. Was it a stunt? Most likely, from a certain point of view. But even this example made use of some established history, it wasn't completely out of nowhere.

I'm gonna throw this out and guess nobody cared enough about Sidious' origins. It was the 80s. He's a badguy. He has to go. lol EVEN THEN, he was positioned as ultimate evil and master to Vader as Yoda was mentor to Luke. That was all we needed. To say Snoke can pull off the same lack of background after decades of world building is crazy.

[Kalyx triaD]

Was Dark Plagus mentioned before the prequels? That'd be pretty cool idea to expand on in their spinoff series

Yep. Episode 3, Palpatine explained to Anakin his backstory in the form of a parable. He revealed that his master found a way to create life which is heavily implied to explain the eventual virgin birth of... Anakin. Which then explains why the Skywalkers were freaks of nature, which works whether by midichlorians or affinity to a mystic force. It's consistent either way.

Not anymore.

[Destor]

Obviously too young to have lived thru it, but where there complaints are the swerves the 2nd and 3rd film threw at the audience at time of release?

Like, were people upset at the "
..I am your father" like coming out of nowhere and rendering the "he murdered your father" line in the first film useless?

Were people upset that the Emperor was tossed to his death with little backstory? Legit curious.

Most people were losing their minds over how cool it was and just enjoying the movie. But there were fignuts then bitching about the cannon error, yeah. Had a friend who didn't see 6 until we told them the retcon with obi won in 6. And lets be clear....that was total retcon. Vader was not a skywalker when lucas wrote 4.

[Destor]

Yep. Episode 3, Palpatine explained to Anakin his backstory in the form of a parable. He revealed that his master found a way to create life which is heavily implied to explain the eventual virgin birth of... Anakin. Which then explains why the Skywalkers were freaks of nature, which works whether by midichlorians or affinity to a mystic force. It's consistent either way.

Not anymore.

This fan theory for the record.

[Fignuts]

I'm gonna throw this out and guess nobody cared enough about Sidious' origins. It was the 80s. He's a badguy. He has to go. lol EVEN THEN, he was positioned as ultimate evil and master to Vader as Yoda was mentor to Luke. That was all we needed. To say Snoke can pull off the same lack of background after decades of world building is crazy.

I have explained this like 10 times in this thread.

[Kalyx triaD]

Oh you said before. Oops.

[Kalyx triaD]

This fan theory for the record.

But all but obvious.

[Fignuts]

Most people were losing their minds over how cool it was and just enjoying the movie. But there were fignuts then bitching about the cannon error, yeah. Had a friend who didn't see 6 until we told them the retcon with obi won in 6. And lets be clear....that was total retcon. Vader was not a skywalker when lucas wrote 4.

How people reacted to the original trilogy is completely irrelevant.

[Destor]

I have explained this like 10 times in this thread.

Oh you said before. Oops.

No yiuve said things that are flat out false because youre too young to actual,y fucking know and are just talking out of your ass. Youre literally lying when you say no one cared.

[Destor]

How people reacted to the original trilogy is completely irrelevant.

No it isnt. Its everything. It clearly demonstrates that youve changed not the franchise.

[Kalyx triaD]

No yiuve said things that are flat out false because youre too young to actual,y fucking know and are just talking out of your ass. Youre literally lying when you say no one cared.

Nobody cared. Not even the mountains of EU material approached it, and I was alive to see nobody asking for his origin story THEN.

[Fignuts]

It clearly demonstrates that youve changed not the franchise.

It has and it hasn't.

You're correct in your previous statement that it's practices and tropes have "stayed authentic to itself."

It has changed in that there is now more history in the story, that makes staying authentic harder to do, while telling a coherent story.

The more you add to the history, and the lore, the more plot holes bad writing decisions are going to evolve if you ignore the history just remain true to the tropes that have been a part of the series. And the thing is, it doesn't even need those tropes. They aren't necessary to make star wars unique and special.

[Kalyx triaD]

Why even do a sequel if we weren't in some fashion an essential part of the demo anyway? Just reboot it.

[Fignuts]

Also, people's reactions to palpatine isn't relevant, because this arguement isn't about that.

It's about comparing a mysterious powerful figure introduced in a trilogy with no preceding history vs a mysterious powerful figure introduced in a trilogy with a TON of preceding history.

That's it. Doesn't matter fuck all how people reacted, because it can't change bad writing.

[Ezra]

A lot of tissues are needed in here. Jesus Christ.

[Fignuts]

Shut up, meg.

[Ruien]

I don't think Smoke is dead. Rem isn't intimidating enough to be the main bad guy at all. Believe in Snoke.

[Fignuts]

I would hold out hope but that gag scene with hux kind of makes me think no.

[wwe2222]

Yep. Episode 3, Palpatine explained to Anakin his backstory in the form of a parable. He revealed that his master found a way to create life which is heavily implied to explain the eventual virgin birth of... Anakin. Which then explains why the Skywalkers were freaks of nature, which works whether by midichlorians or affinity to a mystic force. It's consistent either way.

Not anymore.

This post makes no sense. As a stated earlier there have been a thousand generations of Jedi and Sith. The sky walkers weren’t the first powerful beings.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

We still have another 2.5 hours of story to go. Ren is the clear villain. They have had two films now to reveal his backstory of succumbing to the dark side, because while we know he worships his grandfather, and we can see he's conflicted, the part where he committed to Snoke is still missing. No reason to think it won't be touched on in the finale of this trilogy.

[Lock Jaw]

With all the comic books and novels coming out as well, it is a sure thing that we won't have to wait as long to find out the origin story of Snoke as we did the emperor

[Ezra]

Shut up, meg.

Send me your address. I will get tissues sent to you on tuesday.

[Fignuts]

Give me yours, so I can send you some drizzling shits. Figure it's right up your alley since you loved this movie so much.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Send me your address. I will get tissues sent to you on tuesday.

its gotta be kane86

[Mr. JL]

But I guarantee I've just put more thought into it then they did just now.

This line probably sums up the new movie best.

Destor,

I think your argument of 'you were not alive' to see the old movies on Day 1 of 1977 is invalid.

By that standard of thought anyone younger than you should have a stronger opinion because it is the younger audience the movies are geared towards (in your words) and we're younger and closer to that age than you so perhaps our opinion shoulder carry more weight?

Pretty silly argument, either way.

[Kalyx triaD]

https://youtu.be/ZzO3DCW4LXw

[wwe2222]

Some people liked it and some people didn’t. Thank you for continuing to establish that.

[Kalyx triaD]

This is Mark Hammil, tho. If we're set to dismiss his own obviously displeased review of his character then that cements my conclusion that the series as we know it isn't actually 'Star Wars'. His alternate take on Han's death would have easily been one of the best moments in all 8 movies and not a single soul would have argued against it.

[Ezra]

Mark also came back and said he loved his vision of the character after it was all put together. Of course I am sure Disney forced him to say this.

[wwe2222]

Side note: the DVD will include 2 hours of bonus material (not all deleted scenes ) but including Luke/Rey training with the missing third lesson.

[Kalyx triaD]

Did they did miss the 3rd lesson. Huh.

[wwe2222]

Yup. It was cut for some reason. Apparently it’s some sort of trial I think?

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

It would have been like Star Trek's prime directive. Luke would tell Rey that some people were going to come to attack and that they shouldn't stop them. If they are stopped they will be back in bigger numbers. Balance in the force and stuff.

Rey says fuck that shit and goes to the village to attack. When she arrives R2 and Chewy are having a party with the Porgs. There is no attackers or village.

Luke is like ha ha ha. The Jedi would have let it happen and that's why they suck.

Rey cries for being lied to. It was probably cut for time or for cause it made Luke look like a dick.

[Ezra]

Actually the 3rd trial was Luke inviting Rey over for dinner after realizing they both liked and used the same lightsaber when Luke intially brushed her off. During the beginning of the 3rd trial Rey gave a non verbal cue that she liked standard blue milk vs. the green milk Luke was drinking. Rey, thinking Luke was strong with the force, was mad he didn't pick up on this non verbal cue and left in a Huff in the millienium Uber for kylo, who she was secretly force timing with. Turns out he was a dick too and it was the worst night of her life.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Thought it was pretty good. Kind of understand the hate but I really enjoyed it regardless. Gonna have to line up with MY MAIN MAN DESTOR.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Ren is far more interesting and for me, the best new character they've introduced. He's not a typical bad guy. They've been pushing his inner struggle since the first film. It's my fave running storyline.

I think if you don't like Ren/Adam Driver, you don't like the new franchise.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

-oopsy-

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

This is Mark Hammil, tho. If we're set to dismiss his own obviously displeased review of his character then that cements my conclusion that the series as we know it isn't actually 'Star Wars'. His alternate take on Han's death would have easily been one of the best moments in all 8 movies and not a single soul would have argued against it.

It's funny. I could totally see Hammil having a problem with it, but I'll be damned if he was not fucking fantastic in the movie. If he didn't like how the character was portrayed, then more power to him because he didn't half ass his performance.

[Shisen Kopf]

Didn't see it. Someone spoiled it for me. Bastard!

[RP]

No Oscar for Mark Hamill???? Fuck these fucking motherfuckers!!!

[RP]

I'm nlot even joking right now. He was really good.

[RP]

I just watched 3 Billboards, like 2 nights ago and Woody Harrelson did not deserve a nod over Mark Hamill. He was in the movie for like 30 minutes. It's a complete joke.

[Kalyx triaD]

What

[Sixx]

I just watched 3 Billboards, like 2 nights ago and Woody Harrelson did not deserve a nod over Mark Hamill. He was in the movie for like 30 minutes. It's a complete joke.

Supporting actor. 30 minutes is more than enough.

Hopkins one best actor for 15 or so minutes. Do you think it wasn't deserved?

[Big Vic]

Felt the movie was ok not great or bad or any thing... just quite long.

Snoke dying was cool, wasn't really interested in that character Ren is the much better character.

Wish there was no casino subplot.

Wish Rose wasn't a character and it was Poe and Finn who went on the ship.

Wish Luke and Ren had a longer 'fight' scene.