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Destor
01-04-2018, 11:47 AM
For those who were new to the product last night or havent followed in sometime:


What is your unfiltered thoughts of the product?


Really curious.


(if you are familiar please shut the fuck up)

Bad News Gertner
01-04-2018, 01:01 PM
2/10

Destor
01-04-2018, 01:03 PM
I do not believe gertner saw the show.

Shisen Kopf
01-04-2018, 02:31 PM
1/7

Shisen Kopf
01-04-2018, 02:32 PM
Too much flippy shit. Not enough rest holds

Destor
01-04-2018, 02:38 PM
Too much flippy shit. Not enough rest holds
fair

slik
01-04-2018, 02:40 PM
I have to finish it later but from what I saw I liked:

* Fog-filled stadium. Prefer this over constantly showing people's reactions in the crowd.

* Focus on 'in-ring' action

* I liked that there was not downtime between matches, the next match pretty much started right away

* I liked the set and some of the entrances were really good


Things I think need improvement:

* I sort of missed having a break 'between bouts' sometimes tho...maybe one every now and then would be cool.

* English commentary was not good



Overall

* I would watch NJPW again (someone tell me what day their show airs on AXS channel)

* Match quality was good

Bad News Gertner
01-04-2018, 03:05 PM
I do not believe gertner saw the show.

They did a bunch of flips. Nobody sold 2/10.

Destor
01-04-2018, 03:05 PM
They did a bunch of flips. Nobody sold 2/10.If you think Puro is a bunch of no selling you dont actually know what selling is

#BROKEN Hasney
01-04-2018, 03:07 PM
Hell, even the Bucks match had selling

Destor
01-04-2018, 03:10 PM
In American wrestling unless you're 70feet tall you big sell everything. Guy punched you? Pretend it was as shotgun.

Puro you register. Same thing big guys do in the states. I hit you and you register the blow. It’s a smaller more nuanced sell. When I finally do sell it gets that sweet noise that puro crowds make. The OooooOOOOOOHHH. So good. But you only get that because you have to EARN the big sell.

Conversely you might just sell on the double down. Big shots. Back an forth. Both guys taking and giving their best. Guy A bumps guy B. Guy B does the big sell. Guy A collapses. They both sell.

It’s more genuine. Its more believable. Its more old school. Its better.

Bad News Gertner
01-04-2018, 03:11 PM
If you think Puro is a bunch of no selling you dont actually know what selling is

I believe a nuclear bomb and an actual cannon was used and they kicked out at 2

Destor
01-04-2018, 03:13 PM
I believe a nuclear bomb and an actually cannon was used and they kicked out at 2
Thats what sell tickets.

Destor
01-04-2018, 03:13 PM
Has for 50 years

Bad News Gertner
01-04-2018, 03:13 PM
2/10

Destor
01-04-2018, 03:15 PM
100% you didnt watch it :lol:

Bad News Gertner
01-04-2018, 03:15 PM
I'm actually posting from Japan. I was I attendance. I was the tallest gaijin there.

Destor
01-04-2018, 03:19 PM
You def would have been

#BROKEN Hasney
01-04-2018, 04:00 PM
2/10

Stop rating the brauds you date.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/537/088/86c.gif

Ezra
01-04-2018, 04:01 PM
Pros:

Great storytelling in almost every match.

Good pacing of the show. Couldn't believe it was over 5 hours.

No backstage stuff constantly through the show.

In ring product is just a level up from WWE overall. Of course I think after seeing what Jericho did last night WWE is severely limiting wrestlers.

Cons:

Don Callis is fucking awful. He jumped into heel commentary without reason and used profanity a bit too much for emphasis. Kevin Kelly isn't so bad. Would have loved to seen JR come back with Kevin as his color or get CM Punk for color.

The refs suck. Lots of slow 3 counts last night to insure guys kicked out. Ref of Jericho match randomly does count outs when its no dq.

Production value needs to go up a bit. Camera work wasn't the best and cheesy at times.


Overall

Great show and definitely enjoyed it. Jericho and Omega stole the show for me. Lots of great talent and in ring product.

Show was a 4.5/5 for me.

Anthony Hopkins
01-04-2018, 04:49 PM
I give it a B.

Good number of UK wrestlers. It would have gotten an A if Roman Reigns wrestled on the show.

Stickman
01-04-2018, 04:52 PM
Just watched the Jericho match. He is the GOAT.

Shisen Kopf
01-04-2018, 05:36 PM
I'm actually posting from Japan. I was I attendance. I was the tallest gaijin there.

How's DLVH doing?

Bad News Gertner
01-04-2018, 06:05 PM
Stop rating the brauds you date.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/537/088/86c.gif

I didn't date Becky Lynch?

Sixx
01-04-2018, 08:02 PM
I actually liked it. Didn't like the fact Omega won, but still.

Fignuts
01-04-2018, 08:06 PM
Only reason for a jericho victory would be a rematch at the US show, but I'm guessing this is now officialy a one off.

Sixx
01-04-2018, 08:08 PM
Only reason for a jericho victory would be a rematch at the US show, but I'm guessing this is now officialy a one off.

Yeah, I'm aware that Omega is bigger in Japan then Jericho, but I just love Jericho.

Lock Jaw
01-04-2018, 08:51 PM
Just watched the Jericho match. I enjoyed it. Would attribute maybe 85% of my enjoyment to Jericho.

"lol" at Kenny Omega getting all these eyes on him because of Jericho and then showing up looking like a goof in what was hyped up to be a "serious encounter" between the "best in the world". Was not a good "first impression" for me. Then I noticed his face kind of looked like The Ryback to me, and I started to wish I was watching The Ryback. Then he pretty much no sold all those chair shots and I was like "F this dude". Then he started hitting all those sweet knees. Also I felt the commentators were doing a real good job of putting him over. Rather than making it seem like the "previous generation" was "of course" better, they treated Omega like an "equal" and really tried to drive it home that he was one of the best..... and it kind of worked because he grew on me after I got over him no selling all those chair shots, and then he won and it felt like a "passing of the torch" in a way that none of Jericho's putting over young talent in WWE did (mainly due to the commentators)........

Lock Jaw
01-04-2018, 08:53 PM
Oh, and their replays were "jarring" at times with no "replay transition". Sometimes I thought the action was just continuing, but then it was just a replay.....

Lock Jaw
01-04-2018, 08:55 PM
then he won and it felt like a "passing of the torch" in a way that none of Jericho's putting over young talent in WWE did (mainly due to the commentators)........

That being said, I still like Jericho's matches with AJ Styles more.....

Ezra
01-04-2018, 09:06 PM
Oh, and their replays were "jarring" at times with no "replay transition". Sometimes I thought the action was just continuing, but then it was just a replay.....

I agree with this 100%

Mr. Nerfect
01-04-2018, 10:19 PM
I've watched a bit of New Japan over the years, but I don't follow it, so I feel (un)qualified enough to post.

* I like the booking. It's actually booked like pro-wrestling, with each match telling a story and not just happening for the sake of it. They have top stars and they protect them. I love that Okada and Tanahashi retaining. Putting the belt on a guy just because he's hot is so...American. Very "see what happens" and not really orchestrating your own stories, and in wrestling, you've got complete control over your stories. Things shouldn't be as "fast and loose" as they are in the west.

* When I first saw New Japan, I was shocked at how "big" it was. They have a screen with entrances and stuff. For some reason I thought Japanese wrestling was just a ring with people and streamers. It's got "gloss." I like that as a fan transitioning from a realm where presentation is king. They feel like a viable alternative, and like "real wrestling" done on a big stage. Makes me like them.

* I'm not a fan of The Young Bucks, but what I saw of their match was...alright. A few silly little spots, like when they both had Sharpshooters -- like only the legal man can win the match, yeah? Things like that take me out. But they were bigger than their opponents, so that division is actually good for them and when reeled in, they have enough talent to be able to be good heels in that division.

* Suzuki is a fucking bad-ass and his "seppuku" with shaving his head made me love the guy. Perfect character work that sells a fucking result. There isn't enough selling in matches these days, but there's not enough selling of wins and losses either. When a guy wins, it should mean the world to him, and when he loses, it should affect his pride, confidence, etc. Suzuki sold that loss like he had dishonored the Suzuki name. Perfect. He could be a babyface now, but he could also beat the piss out of Tanahashi in a rage after making you love him, and "double-down" on being the scariest dude in wrestling. Good stuff.

* Don Callis is really hit-and-miss on commentary. Sometimes he says something insightful. I liked his mentioning of Chris Jericho's dad being in hockey, hence the "hockey fight" environment. I also liked him saying "You're not even the best guy in Winnipeg," which really sums up why Omega is under Jericho's skin. But then he's just...awful. Like he's a really witty guy and funny on Lance Storm's podcast, but he's just...awful.

* Kevin Kelly is pretty good, I guess, in the sense that he clearly loves wrestling and is a fan of what he does, but sometimes he's "reaching" for that WWE emotion. A lot of "acting" and not enough "reacting," I guess.

* Omega seemed a lot more dialed down when being led by Jericho. That being said, he still annoys the piss out of me. His fucking face. I just hate it. He's got this dumb, smug asshole face. And his actions are so fucking cheesy. The gun thing. Then he turns his back to his opponent and hits the ropes just to get beat up. There's a lot of things he does that just make me roll my eyes. I get that he's athletic and does "cool" shit, but I just cannot see where this "best wrestler in the world" shit comes from. AJ Styles is at least 10x better.

* "You cannot escape!" Fuck's sake.

Fignuts
01-04-2018, 10:31 PM
I agree with you on not putting the belt on someone just because they're hot, but Naito had a lot more going for him than that. His ability in the ring, his character work, his journey just being an awesome story....I still stand by my statement that there was more to gain with a Naito win than Okada retaining, but I love Okada too, so I'm not even really heated about it.

Ol Dirty Dastard
01-04-2018, 10:34 PM
only watched alpha/Omega. my god. 5/7. perfect score.


but actually. just wow. what a fucking match.

Ol Dirty Dastard
01-04-2018, 10:36 PM
Would watch 10000000 Omega matches before reading one Noid post.

Fignuts
01-04-2018, 10:50 PM
Also, in response to comment you made in the other thread, no, Naito doesn't need the title to be over. But neither does Okada. Nor does anyone else who's won the title in the last 10 years. Because unlike in WWE the man makes the title, and getting over on your own is a prerequisite to even being considered for the iwgp title.

What it comes down to is that myself and hasney value the story of Naito's journey here, how much he deserves it, and how good of a champion he would be, over making an already special title reign a little bit more special.

But the fact that neither myself or hasney are broken up about it and still looking forward to future okada defenses is telling of the quality of njpw's product.

#1-norm-fan
01-05-2018, 01:28 AM
I fucking hate the concept of "_____ shouldn't win the title because he doesn't need it to be over".

Nicky Fives
01-05-2018, 01:44 AM
I watched the Battle Royal, The Bucks match, Cody's match and Jericho's match. Jericho was the only reason why I went out of my way to watch, and really enjoyed his match. Kenny Omega could easily be in WWE right now but I don't see the "huge appeal" of him. Yeah he's good and could be in WWE, but he's not going to be the next Rock.

I've seen The Bucks wrestle before in TNA, so I know what I was going to get with them, which is not really what I enjoy.

The Battle Royal was terrible. Allowing pinfalls really hurt it for me as every pinfall seemed to be from a weak move or 3 people piling on. I'd also only ever heard of the older Japanese wrestlers like Liger & Tiger Mask

Cody/Ibushi was very good as well, and Brandi is so god damn hot and has improved 100-fold since I last saw her when they both were in TNA earlier last year.

Overall, I wasn't overly impressed and likely won;t ever watch another NJPW PPV unless they draw another "big star" the likes of Danielson or Punk

Jordan
01-05-2018, 08:34 AM
I watch 1 to 3 NJPW events per year. Last year I had intended to keep my sub to NJ World but on the PPV after Wrestle Kingdom 11 they didn't offer English commentary so I decided to send them a message not not re-up. I will keep my sub at least til the end of the month to see Jericho at the next show.

WK 12 was a fantastic pro wrestling event, golden star for sure. The thing with this event and NJPW that is different than WWE is... NJPW has never changed their booking style. They don't need shove a main eventer into every match, they actually have openers, lower mid card, mid-card, mid-card with potential, upper mid card legends, and main eventers. So we start off with a bunch of old guys and jobbers in a comedyish rumble, it sucked until Kojima and Tenzan came in. Sucks that they couldn't have had a bigger match, I'd love to see them go with Bulldog Jr. and Archer. I'm sure it's happened but not for me yet.

So the card was really good with what it was. With the openers and mid carders playing their role, not playing the main event in the undercard. Having guys like Cheeseburger, Owens and Gambino just made the starts look more like stars. That was the biggest lesson for me watching this.

Let the undercard be the undercard. We used to love that. To pick our favorites who couldn't likely hang with "The best" but they were guy you wanted to pull for.

While there wasn't that one six star match, and who cares that's only happened once, there were three, four+ star matches. So the build of the show just created an awesome old school roller coaster with new school loops and drops.

Jordan
01-05-2018, 08:40 AM
With that said, I am not a fan of NJPW's Juniorheavyweight division. The current crop just doesn't cut it for me. I do like some of the workers, but only in different promotions. There are way too many guys working the same hyper junior style. I like Osprey but he does EVERYTHING imaginable in EVERY MATCH. It's too much and totally unrealistic, I'd love to see someone sell a fucking punch for Christ's sake!

I also don't like WWE's 205 Division. My current taste for Junior style would be the extreme lucha style of Lucha Underground. Or backing up to the mid 90's to WCW and NJPW's Cruiser/Junior style.

Fignuts
01-05-2018, 10:43 AM
Agree on Osprey, but I feel KUSHIDA, Hiromu, and Marty all have fairly distinct styles.

Ol Dirty Dastard
01-05-2018, 04:31 PM
Gotta cheque that cruiser match styll.

Destor
01-05-2018, 04:36 PM
Fuck you dale

Ol Dirty Dastard
01-05-2018, 04:41 PM
What by chance are you referring to?

#BROKEN Hasney
01-05-2018, 05:07 PM
Oh, so people need a reason to day "fuck you Dale" now?

Mr. Nerfect
01-05-2018, 07:02 PM
Also, in response to comment you made in the other thread, no, Naito doesn't need the title to be over. But neither does Okada. Nor does anyone else who's won the title in the last 10 years. Because unlike in WWE the man makes the title, and getting over on your own is a prerequisite to even being considered for the iwgp title.

What it comes down to is that myself and hasney value the story of Naito's journey here, how much he deserves it, and how good of a champion he would be, over making an already special title reign a little bit more special.

But the fact that neither myself or hasney are broken up about it and still looking forward to future okada defenses is telling of the quality of njpw's product.

Nah, there's more to gain with the Okada win. It reaffirms that he's the guy. If Naito beat him then they'd be 1-1 at Wrestle Kingdom. This tells the story that Okada is always one step ahead of him. It keeps him on his toes. They're Austin and Rock. Or Goku and Vegeta. Okada is the man. That's the story they're trying to tell. You tell that by putting Okada over.

I always thought it was likely Okada would be retaining, but everyone was saying "Naito, Naito, Naito." But I'm telling you -- it makes perfect sense.

Mr. Nerfect
01-05-2018, 07:04 PM
I watch 1 to 3 NJPW events per year. Last year I had intended to keep my sub to NJ World but on the PPV after Wrestle Kingdom 11 they didn't offer English commentary so I decided to send them a message not not re-up. I will keep my sub at least til the end of the month to see Jericho at the next show.

WK 12 was a fantastic pro wrestling event, golden star for sure. The thing with this event and NJPW that is different than WWE is... NJPW has never changed their booking style. They don't need shove a main eventer into every match, they actually have openers, lower mid card, mid-card, mid-card with potential, upper mid card legends, and main eventers. So we start off with a bunch of old guys and jobbers in a comedyish rumble, it sucked until Kojima and Tenzan came in. Sucks that they couldn't have had a bigger match, I'd love to see them go with Bulldog Jr. and Archer. I'm sure it's happened but not for me yet.

So the card was really good with what it was. With the openers and mid carders playing their role, not playing the main event in the undercard. Having guys like Cheeseburger, Owens and Gambino just made the starts look more like stars. That was the biggest lesson for me watching this.

Let the undercard be the undercard. We used to love that. To pick our favorites who couldn't likely hang with "The best" but they were guy you wanted to pull for.

While there wasn't that one six star match, and who cares that's only happened once, there were three, four+ star matches. So the build of the show just created an awesome old school roller coaster with new school loops and drops.

Card structure is so important and is largely a lost art.

Ol Dirty Dastard
01-05-2018, 07:18 PM
Oh, so people need a reason to day "fuck you Dale" now?

I mean they don't.... BUT I'm sure the added incentive helps.

Mr. Nerfect
01-05-2018, 07:52 PM
You also have to remember that they're paying Okada like $2.2 million a year and have him signed for five years, don't they? You treat that guy like he's worth it. If you take the belt off Okada and put it onto Naito now, then you're essentially promoting Naito to the Okada role, which means he should expect Okada money, whereas you're still paying Okada Okada money, but he's now not in the Okada role.

Obviously I'm not saying that Okada will never drop the belt or give anyone else a chance to run on top, but it's likely going to find its way back onto him before too long, and it'll be largely to freshen him up. Having him lose in the main event of the biggest show of the year isn't really an option, guys.

Destor
01-05-2018, 08:20 PM
I agree with everything but the timing. He should only lose it on the biggest show of the year.

Mr. Nerfect
01-05-2018, 08:24 PM
Interesting. Maybe they will have him hold it for the whole year again? There hasn't been a run like that in some time.

Destor
01-05-2018, 08:26 PM
I think it takes a year to build up another credible challenger unless youre going with omega

Mr. Nerfect
01-05-2018, 08:29 PM
Omega seems locked into this US Title thing anyway. I'm not particularly keen on seeing him jump out of that division right now.

Destor
01-05-2018, 08:30 PM
Would be a fine way to make that us belt feel like more than a token title

Mr. Nerfect
01-05-2018, 08:32 PM
Yeah, Omega having a nice meaty run with it would be good, and kind of gives it a purpose. It's the Omega match belt. I hear rumblings about him versus Kota Ibushi being something people are looking forward to.

Destor
01-05-2018, 08:33 PM
Yeah thats a hot ticket right there

Fignuts
01-05-2018, 08:42 PM
You know in the 90's, at the very peak of NJPW's success, they didn't have "THE GUY". They had three guys. Chono, Mutoh, and Hashimoto. And they would all have multiple reigns, with the odd Fujinami or Choshu title win thrown in to mix it up a bit.

I fully believe they have the potential to be in that spot again. Where instead of just one guy to rely on, with a few people to hold on to the belt for him when he needs a break, you have multiple mega stars.

Wrestling is all about timing, and I think this moment could of cemented Naito as more than just a main eventer who can occasionally challenge THE GUY, but instead an equal to Okada. He already outclasses Okada in the charisma department, and while I feel Okada is slightly better in ring overall, in large part to his amazing story telling, there are some things Naito still does better than Okada.

Omega is talented enough, more than over enough to be your third, giving you your modern day "three musketeers", as it were.

Destor
01-05-2018, 09:01 PM
Okada is very pretty. Never ignore the blow job factor.

Mr. Nerfect
01-05-2018, 09:30 PM
You know in the 90's, at the very peak of NJPW's success, they didn't have "THE GUY". They had three guys. Chono, Mutoh, and Hashimoto. And they would all have multiple reigns, with the odd Fujinami or Choshu title win thrown in to mix it up a bit.

I fully believe they have the potential to be in that spot again. Where instead of just one guy to rely on, with a few people to hold on to the belt for him when he needs a break, you have multiple mega stars.

Wrestling is all about timing, and I think this moment could of cemented Naito as more than just a main eventer who can occasionally challenge THE GUY, but instead an equal to Okada. He already outclasses Okada in the charisma department, and while I feel Okada is slightly better in ring overall, in large part to his amazing story telling, there are some things Naito still does better than Okada.

Omega is talented enough, more than over enough to be your third, giving you your modern day "three musketeers", as it were.

I recognize what you're saying, but they kind of do have their guys all set up. Okada is now in the Tanahashi spot. Tanahashi is now in the Nakamura spot. You have Goto who is the "he's got real potential and we want you to love him" spot. I get that you love Naito, but to make him an equal to Okada you'd have to pay him equal to Okada. The goal is to be making money here, not spending it by working yourself out of your own game. Naito knew what his role was there. It's to be the hot challenger to reinforce the story that the national hero really is a national hero. Otaku fans are probably the only ones, not bitching -- I get that you're not doing that -- but they're the only ones thinking this way about it, because we've been conditioned to expect 15 title runs for Randy Orton or whatever.

I think you're right about timing, but I think you just have the wrong time. How many Japanese fans would have tuned in to Wrestle Kingdom 12 and saw that Okada was the champ and gone "Oh shit, he's still the guy?" and discovered that he had the longest IWGP Title reign in history? I mean, if you gave WK11 a shot and then order WK12, that's the big story, surely? That and Jericho being in. So why smack that investment away? Everyone just gets this itchy trigger fingers with these things. Okada would have been introduced to many lapsed fans of New Japan, or puroresu in general, as the greatest IWGP Champion of all-time. You don't have him dethroned the same night just to go "Oh look, we also have Naito, isn't Naito cool too? Buy his t-shirt."

New Japan's business has grown quite well under Okada. And it's grown with Naito as an A2 guy. Sometimes you need to know when to pull a switch (Bockwinkel/Hogan in the AWA), but sometimes it's a lot smarter to just not fuck with what's working. Naito will not go away or disappear. He will still be popular. He will still sell t-shirts. You just don't need to pay him $2.2 million and devalue your top player, which given the sports atmosphere of NJPW, losing to an "almost guy" might do. Totally sane booking, in my opinion. I think you're coming at it from a western perspective, where nothing works, so if something gets hot you should run with it, haha. Okada is doing great as champion. Naito is great in his role. There was no reason to switch them.

And the story of Naito is that he not only lost last time to Okada, but the fans voted the IC Title match above his. His story has been one of being this underappreciated near-miss guy, that is slowly winning over support and proving that he can do it. You don't need to tell it all at once. Like A) Naito loses to Okada in semi-main; B) Naito beats Okada in main. If they wrestle at Wrestle Kingdom again, and I suspect it won't be for at least two years, then I'd completely agree with the timing of Naito beating Okada. But it's just rushed right now. Prior to the G1, I didn't even hear anyone talking about the match. It was all Okada/Omega and whether or not they'd run that again.

Jordan
01-07-2018, 08:22 AM
Talking about Omega jumping to the top spot and taking from Okada... I'm not for it. You should have either a serial killer gaijin or Japanese heel holding the belt, or someone who is the pride of Japan. Those are the best options for IWGP I think.

Okada is pride of Japan. He's becoming a legend. If like Noid said, he has a 5 year contract that means, what? Four more years? Three?

He could hold the belt until WK 14 for all I care, he's the Bruno of this generation, make it happen. Naito is great, but he's not Okada. Okada is legend right now. Absolutely no foreigner should beat him.

And to those who keep talking about Brock, that won't ever happen. Brock doesn't want to go to Japan to wrestle, plus he didn't mean much there the last time. And there was a lawsuit involving his stealing the IWGP heavyweight title. So no, it's just wasted space to pontificate on that notion.

Simple Fan
01-07-2018, 03:10 PM
Overall

* I would watch NJPW again (someone tell me what day their show airs on AXS channel)

* Match quality was good

Fridays at 8 usually but they do some special like the did with the Wrestle Kingdom show. I think neext week is the under card of WK12.

PapaGeorgio
01-07-2018, 04:05 PM
Stayed up to watch it live with friends. Seen a few other events before. NJPW has some of best bell to bell action, though this didn't seem as good as normal. Maybe a B+ or A- overall.
-Fatal 4 Way was amazing
-Jericho/Omega I got super into. Haven't loved Jericho more in past decade
-Main event ended strong with last 5 minutes or so, but rest was just ok imo.
-Any match with 5 or more people was meh.
-Cameraman could use some work, missed some spots/moments. Enough I took notice.
-Like someone said before, was nice that it went match to match pretty quick, but could have used a quick promo package between some to give a breather.
-Pretty weak ass commentating
-Replays need better transition.

Mr. Nerfect
01-07-2018, 06:05 PM
Talking about Omega jumping to the top spot and taking from Okada... I'm not for it. You should have either a serial killer gaijin or Japanese heel holding the belt, or someone who is the pride of Japan. Those are the best options for IWGP I think.

Okada is pride of Japan. He's becoming a legend. If like Noid said, he has a 5 year contract that means, what? Four more years? Three?

He could hold the belt until WK 14 for all I care, he's the Bruno of this generation, make it happen. Naito is great, but he's not Okada. Okada is legend right now. Absolutely no foreigner should beat him.

And to those who keep talking about Brock, that won't ever happen. Brock doesn't want to go to Japan to wrestle, plus he didn't mean much there the last time. And there was a lawsuit involving his stealing the IWGP heavyweight title. So no, it's just wasted space to pontificate on that notion.

Basically agree with you 100% here, except that I do feel that Brock jumping to Japan is basically a 100% lock at this point. You might just have to get used to the idea.

I find it hard to guess what is going to happen with Danielson. I really do. On one hand, I'm completely under the impression he will sign for $1 million a year to remain with the WWE and collect paychecks so his wife's career can also sky-rocket. But then I am also definitely sure they aren't going to clear him, but that he does have legitimate tests saying he is cleared, and that he is definitey going to go. Like, both universes seem so likely right now, and it's surreal to think about a free and clear Bryan Danielson.

I can see him working CMLL, like he said, because I think he wants to help wrestling. Maybe he works a special attraction at Final Battle, to make a difference to their PPV (or see if he does). But I could see Okada winning the G1 and challenging him. He's not only the best IWGP Champion, but the best wrestler. Okada vs. Danielson at the Tokyo Dome. Okada with 29 successful IWGP Title defenses behind him. Danielson makes 30 and Okada is officially the national hero of Japan.

Jordan
01-07-2018, 06:54 PM
Basically agree with you 100% here, except that I do feel that Brock jumping to Japan is basically a 100% lock at this point. You might just have to get used to the idea.

I find it hard to guess what is going to happen with Danielson. I really do. On one hand, I'm completely under the impression he will sign for $1 million a year to remain with the WWE and collect paychecks so his wife's career can also sky-rocket. But then I am also definitely sure they aren't going to clear him, but that he does have legitimate tests saying he is cleared, and that he is definitey going to go. Like, both universes seem so likely right now, and it's surreal to think about a free and clear Bryan Danielson.

I can see him working CMLL, like he said, because I think he wants to help wrestling. Maybe he works a special attraction at Final Battle, to make a difference to their PPV (or see if he does). But I could see Okada winning the G1 and challenging him. He's not only the best IWGP Champion, but the best wrestler. Okada vs. Danielson at the Tokyo Dome. Okada with 29 successful IWGP Title defenses behind him. Danielson makes 30 and Okada is officially the national hero of Japan.


What evidence do you have that Lesnar is not resigning with WWE or UFC and going to Japan?

I agree that the potential for Danielson to leave WWE is there but still at this point it's over nine months away. I don't see NJPW not already having the main event of WK 13 in place by September. I also don't see them going with an outsider for the main event when they have plenty of options beneath Okada on the roster.

Mr. Nerfect
01-07-2018, 06:56 PM
You'll see. ;)

Danielson will know what he's doing by September.

Sixx
01-07-2018, 06:56 PM
Was Lesnar big in Japan?

He's the kinda guy I imagine being huge there.

Mr. Nerfect
01-07-2018, 06:59 PM
He wasn't really there for that long. There was a muck-up with visas and shit, and Inoki left and started his own thing, and he took Brock and Angle with him. So New Japan was probably pretty mad at him. But he never really got much of a chance to get started over there. And business was down at the time. I imagine he would be huge today.

Jordan
01-07-2018, 07:01 PM
Was Lesnar big in Japan?

He's the kinda guy I imagine being huge there.

No that's the thing! He wasn't! His run wasn't a big deal, turned out to be a flop and a huge legal controversy because he didn't want to go back to Japan to return the belt. The ended up having to make a new one because of him. Sure it was different owners at that point, but still, I don't see that heat going away. NJPW isn't like Vince, they aren't going to let heat like that go. Brock isn't a big draw in Japan, just a big guy scary guy. He could be pushed to the top because of that alone sure, but they aren't going to sacrifice Okada's title reign to Brock Lensar coming in for a shot here and there. That's not happening.

So Noid I think you are passing off your opinion/fantasy as fact, unless of course you can show of some kind of proof, that this is even being discussed by camp Lesnar and or Gedo.

I can see no way that Lesnar goes to Japan beyond being humiliated and disgraced by WWE in some way.

Mr. Nerfect
01-07-2018, 08:38 PM
Lol, don't take it so seriously. It's one of my things to predict that Brock goes to New Japan. Relax.

It's definitely happening though, so get yourself used to the idea.

Mr. Nerfect
01-07-2018, 08:39 PM
New Japan was in shambles by the time Brock came in. I mean, they were trying to rebuild, but let's not protect that Brock coming in now would mean the same as Brock going in then. It's a different environment and he's got more cred than ever. He's the perfect gaijin for them to use. The only reason they wouldn't is if they are still pissed off at him, like they were Shibata for ages.

Jordan
01-07-2018, 09:36 PM
Yes but why would Brock go to Japan? How does that make sense for him? NJPW cannot pay him the same that WWE does, why would he leave what he has for Japan?

Mr. Nerfect
01-07-2018, 10:01 PM
They can pay him a lot. Karl Anderson was getting $750,000 a year. Karl Anderson. They'd break the bank on Brock. Guarantee he would make $2 million before even sponsorships and the like.

Why would he go to Japan? He has friends there. That is why he was on tour for what they turned Beast in the East into. He probably doesn't mind being washed away in a different culture, given his anti-social nature. He can re-up with the WWE, or he can move around, get paid what is still a lot of money (enough money, anyway) to be a fresh attraction in a new environment, and can always re-sign with Vince when he's done his shtick there. Look at how quickly New Japan has reinvigorated Chris Jericho.

Wrestlers used to go other places all the time to freshen themselves up and keep themselves from getting stale in one place where they've done it all. Because if they stop drawing, they stop getting paid. Brock going to Japan immediately makes him the biggest talk in wrestling, it immediately puts asses in seats, it immediately refreshes him as a draw in professional wrestling. Then he can go back to Vince and say "Hmm, you want me at WrestleMania? You only paid me $1.5 million for that one show last time, but now I want $2 million for it."

Brock also gets bored. He got bored in WWE last time. He went to Japan. He took some losses in UFC, went back to WWE. It's not because he's a quitter. He went back to UFC and cleared that up. Dude's a shark -- he needs to keep moving. He's been with WWE collecting great paychecks for almost six years now. You have people starting to whinge about him "I'm bored of Brock, all he does is this, this and this." Brock has Heyman in his ear who knows how this game works, and isn't particularly attached to the WWE himself.

When Brock Lesnar's deal comes up later this year, I'd be very, very, very, VERY surprised if he didn't at least talk to people there. To be honest, and I doubt they can pay him as much, it'd surprise me if Brock doesn't talk to All Japan too. They've shrunk in size compared to New Japan and even other promotions there, but allegedly they had one of the best growth years of any promotion in the world in 2017, and if Brock decides there is more window to "make a splash" with them, even in Japan and revive old-school competition and bidding, then he might go there too.

I don't think this is as outlandish as I'm making it seem. Sometimes you take a lower deal in order to increase your overall value. There are blue-chip shares, and then there are riskier ones. Brock doesn't need money at this point in his life. Why is he even wrestling for WWE at all? He's a guy that's always kind of wanted to prove a point. And it's not like he's spending money to go and work in Japan. He'll be getting paid for a change in environment and to have more reputable matches with guys who aren't quite the same as the geeks in the cartoonish WWE.

Mr. Nerfect
01-07-2018, 10:21 PM
To break my gimmick for a second: I do honestly believe that he will sign with Vince again and just ride that company dry while they're just happy to have a man in the house. I think he'll jump over to SmackDown after Mania and do stuff with AJ Styles and maybe even Shinsuke Nakamura, Rusev, The New Day, etc. It'll be like a fresh playground. They won't feel the need to put the belt on him again for a little while, but maybe they do, whatever. I fully expect that.

But if Paul Heyman hasn't looked at what Chris Jericho has done in New Japan and stroked his chin and said "Interesting..." I'd be absolutely shocked. If Heyman does not get on the phone to New Japan and people in Sinclair and say "Brock's fee is (x), you work out how you want to split that up between you, then Brock will get your PPV buys and subs up," I'd wonder why Brock even keeps him around. Doesn't mean he'll take it, doesn't mean they'll even make it. But Brock's contract is coming up this year. You don't go into negotiations armed with nothing but a smile and a "please."

Brock would only work the big shows in New Japan. You're talking about 8-10 shows a year, should they decide to use him for the ROH crossovers. In WWE in 2017, he worked 14 times, and also had to fly into random TVs. Let's say New Japan can only offer him $2 million, and he's earning $12 million in the WWE (that's what Forbes listed for 2016, but that may not be correct). That probably averages out to $500,000 a performance, when you include television. Brock would probably get $250,000 a performance in New Japan. It's half the amount, sure, but he might like the work twice as much, too.