Who should "just leave" the WWE?

[Rollermacka]

So I was listening to Jericho's podcast with Sami Callihan and he brought up how he just wasn't happy in NXT and asked for his release. I will say (baseball bat incident aside) he has made a good career for himself post WWE. It probably was better for his career to leave just like Drew Galloway, Cody, Austin Aries, even Christian back in 06, than to just stay where he was. So if you looked at the main rosters, who do you think should "bet on themselves" and leave WWE to try and make it in Japan/ Mexico or the American independents?

[Destor]

Anyone on NXT that was a name on the indies that isnt going to make it. They're losing money being there.

[Lock Jaw]

So pretty much everybody on NXT should leave?

[Destor]

If that statement is true for the enitre roster then absolutely...dont think it is tho

[Savio]

I'll be the first to say Ziggler.

[Destor]

His contract is killer. Fuck that.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Destor is thinking too much like a wrestler for this thread, I think.

I don't really care to see anyone leave outside of Matt Hardy. Over the shit.

[Destor]

The question is "who should bet on themselves." I dunno about eveyrone else but when I bet I try to make money

[Anybody Thrilla]

Ah, I guess I read it wrong. I was thinking a personal "just leave". Carry on.

[Nicky Fives]

Bray Wyatt.

[Cool King]

Baron Corbin.

Just so he can at least try to better himself in some way, be it looks, promos, charisma, whatever.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Bray Wyatt is a good one. Probably the best one.

[Emperor Smeat]

Also agree on Bray being a really good choice. He'd benefit the most by going away for a while to get rid of all the stink associated with the Bray character.

Scott Dawson and Dash Wilder so they can regain the spark they had during their time in NXT.

[ClockShot]

Was gonna say Dolph Ziggler. But, since he just signed a new contract, I guess he's happy where's he at/position at WWE. More power to him.

I'll jump on the Bray Wyatt bandwagon with the rest of ya.

Luke Gallows & Carl Anderson haven't fared well in WWE. They might wanna think about going back to New Japan.

I was feeling maybe Finn Balor should consider getting out. He was on top of the world for 24 hours after he won the Universal title but got injured. And that just totally derailed everything. But he's in this IC title triple threat at 'Mania now and I'm thinking he's on his way back. Can't say for sure.

[Bad News Gertner]

I think it's a great idea for people to leave a 6 figure income to to slog it out on the Indies.

[Blonde Moment]

Rotunda is nothing without the Bray Wyatt character, just doesn't have the looking for anything else imo.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Dolph leaving would be silly from a financial point of view. He'd find work easily and any other promotion would push him to the top (New Japan included, don't fool yourselves). Artistically it would freshen him up. But his value isn't going to increase to the point where I think he comes back with a bigger contract than he has now. He'll just get to have a really good match with Okada.

Cesaro is someone I would have said a few years ago, but he's building up quite a bit of capital with the company. Bo Dallas could ask for an out for a few years just to go and get a lot better to come back, I guess. Vince probably wouldn't look down on him for that, given how low his position at the moment is and how young he is.

I think The Balor Club, frankly, sucks, but Karl Anderson used to brag about making $750,000 a year. I think they would be nuts to turn away such a big paycheck when they aren't that good in the first place. Anderson will probably get a cushy job at the PC in a few years. Luke Gallows is doing about as well as he can for as much as he can. Finn Balor is probably not hurting for cash either. He could go and "tear it up" in Japan again, but similarly to Ziggler, it's not going to make him more valuable.

[Maluco]

It's not just about leaving and losing salary, Dolph was good enough to make a real reputation for himself on the Indies. He is much better than Cody imo. He could have come back renewed and got an even better contract. He should have done this 5 years ago.

Don't think I have ever seen anyone as tired and played out as he is now. Literally nothing player now. But maybe he is happy he didn't risk anything and got all the money he could from his tenure

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's not just about leaving and losing salary, Dolph was good enough to make a real reputation for himself on the Indies. He is much better than Cody imo. He could have come back renewed and got an even better contract. He should have done this 5 years ago.

Don't think I have ever seen anyone as tired and played out as he is now. Literally nothing player now. But maybe he is happy he didn't risk anything and got all the money he could from his tenure

Dolph's reputation on the indies is not going to increase to the point where he is going to be able to come back and get a much better deal though -- he's already on something pretty ridiculous. He would be taking a pay cut to work harder and come back at the same spot.

[Outsider]

Fandango.

[Loose Cannon]

yeah pretty much a lot of these guys that already had a name in Japan or ROH and are not really doing much of anything. But i don't know how much they are making in WWE vs how much they could make elsewhere.

guys that come to mind are Harper, Gallows, Anderson. (but even these 3 are still featured every week on WWE TV)


And then you got the guys that are under used but can probably do a lot more on the Indies like The Revival, Ryder and a lot of those 205 Live guys.


I just took a look at the overall roster though and it's not like they have a lot of talented guys doing nothing to be honest.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't think Bray would ever want to leave and i don't think they would release him. He's character is stale as fuck, but let's see if he can reinvent himself first. i think he's a great hand and his career will probably be a lot like Kane's

[Destor]

KENTA

[Jordan]

Yeah KENTA is a good choice. But I don't know if he'd be lighting it up wherever else he went, he looks like time has passed him by. I would've said Dolph, he could have similar success to Cody but his new contact in undeniable and if they never push him at least he's rich. Plus he can do outside projects and still get stacks from WWE.

I want to say Bo Dallas and Joe Henning but due to their family legacy they have a good shot at having life long jobs if they just do as their told. Plus I don't see either one as a big catch for ROH. They could make money no doubt but they should stay where they are.

Even Zack Ryder, what would he do outside WWE? Be the draw on lots of 300 tops indy shows? It's not going to equal out, he should stay as long as he can.

[Simple Fan]

Agree with the mentioned Fandango and Itami. Itami would be fine going back to KENTA but Fandango would really have to reinvent himself, which I think he could do pretty well.

[Rollermacka]

I think it's a great idea for people to leave a 6 figure income to to slog it out on the Indies.

Alot of guys mentioned (Cody, Aries, Callihan) claim that they're making more now than they were in the WWE, I guess they only know for sure but I can see them being able to do it. I mean, I can almost guarantee Aries isn't getting $20 and some nachos per show

I guess I was thinking about it, in terms of guy like Galloway and Christian. Both guys were just kinda treading water in WWE, then they left and came back as way bigger stars then before. Could a guy like Apollo (Crews) do the same thing? He's not really doing much on the main roster, but has all the tools to be a big star if booked correctly. Can you see Apollo going to ROH, Japan or TNA, getting a huge push and becoming a bigger star than if he had just stayed in the position he's in now?

[Bad News Gertner]

Alot of guys mentioned (Cody, Aries, Callihan) claim that they're making more now than they were in the WWE, I guess they only know for sure but I can see them being able to do it. I mean, I can almost guarantee Aries isn't getting $20 and some nachos per show

I guess I was thinking about it, in terms of guy like Galloway and Christian. Both guys were just kinda treading water in WWE, then they left and came back as way bigger stars then before. Could a guy like Apollo (Crews) do the same thing? He's not really doing much on the main roster, but has all the tools to be a big star if booked correctly. Can you see Apollo going to ROH, Japan or TNA, getting a huge push and becoming a bigger star than if he had just stayed in the position he's in now?

They also have to work twice as hard for said money

[Jordan]

I think Fandango still has a way to go in WWE.

[Ruien]

How much more though? Plus, you have to find your own bookings and such. In WWE all you have to so is show up and do your job.

[Bad News Gertner]

Those spots outside of the WWE are also very few and far between.

[Gerard]

Jason Jordan, this guy could cure every form of cancer and still have the crowd shitting on him, they just don't buy into him or this retarded story-line he was involved with.

[Destor]

They also have to work twice as hard for said money

Really isnt true. WWEs travel schedule is way worse

[Bad News Gertner]

I meant in ring, not travel

[Destor]

Fewer matches, more recovery time. Fewer bumps overall

[Nervous Ferret]

yeah pretty much a lot of these guys that already had a name in Japan or ROH and are not really doing much of anything. But i don't know how much they are making in WWE vs how much they could make elsewhere.

guys that come to mind are Harper, Gallows, Anderson. (but even these 3 are still featured every week on WWE TV)


And then you got the guys that are under used but can probably do a lot more on the Indies like The Revival, Ryder and a lot of those 205 Live guys.


I just took a look at the overall roster though and it's not like they have a lot of talented guys doing nothing to be honest.Nice wrestling posts man

[Bad News Gertner]

Fewer matches, more recovery time. Fewer bumps overall

The ones that are making great money aren't slacking off in their matches. If Cody Rhodes would have left the WWE and worked the same he wouldn't have had nearly the success he has now.

[Destor]

Its still a net loss of bumps. Leave the WWE and add years to your career

[Fignuts]

Yeah, I've never heard anyone say they had it easier in wwe, no matter how crazy their matches in other promotions are.

[Bad News Gertner]

Its still a net loss of bumps. Leave the WWE and add years to your career

What career?

[Destor]

The one that buys you a house and feeds your family

[Ruien]

I dunno. If wrestlers really made more money on the indies and it was easier I am sure more would take that route.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Depends on the wrestler. @Ruien

[Jordan]

Plus Cody wants more than money he wants moments, others take money over moments.

[Destor]

I dunno. If wrestlers really made more money on the indies and it was easier I am sure more would take that route.

Lower card WWE guys arent making as much as you think they are. Most of us in the board earn better livings. NXT guys make fuck all.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Vince takes advantage. If you're lower tier, you're signing with the fed for the opportunity

[Mr. Nerfect]

That's very true, but I think it takes a special set of circumstances to be someone who is actually going to benefit from going elsewhere. Guys like Luke Harper and Cesaro would be in prominent roles in New Japan and the people who follow that would be jizzing, but in three years do they sign and get a monster push, or do they get re-inserted into their mid-card positions? Maybe they would be better off sticking around and building up that tenure?

I agree with KENTA. I can think of ways the WWE could use him better than he is now, but realistically, putting that sort of commitment into him is going to be loading up a property you aren't really going to be banking on. It feels like he would get something out of "artistic redemption" away from the WWE.

[Bad News Gertner]

The one that buys you a house and feeds your family

You're better off staying in the WWE then.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Mojo. It's clear they don't plan to utilize him all that much let alone push him anytime soon.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You're better off staying in the WWE then.

Not always. You're better off having a stint with the WWE to give you the recognition--from there you can hustle and make cash.

Though, Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks both make more than if they were currently with the WWE. I know Omega had a stint in developmental but he barely made a ripple in the water.

[Destor]

You're better off staying in the WWE then.

Depends on how much you're making. Its not black and white no matter how hard you try and play it up to be.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah but Gertner is in "smartest guy in the room" mode in this thread so you're not going to get through to him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'm trying to think of a good way to explain what Destor (and myself) are trying to say.

There's certain guys who thrive in the Indy environment (like the Young Bucks) more than they ever would in the WWE. To the point that they are essentially kings of the Indies.

Mind you, given their current status as merch slingers and the amount they're now making, they'd get a nice deal to go to the E. BUT, if we're talking about the Bucks 6 years ago, if they went to the E, it likely would have hurt their earning potential--so the best thing they could have done was hustle in the Indies to increase their earning potential.

You could say eventually you have to go to the Fed to make the most money possible, but going at the wrong time would hamper your overall earnings in the long run.

[Destor]

I dont think people understand just how expensive travel is. Doing a tour in Japan isnt that bad. Its only 6 weeksish driving around an island. Is not a huge place. Once youre home you might take half a dozen dates for some money marks and make a killing doing. Pad your calender with a few high profile shows for visibility. Not that bad at all.

The fed youre on the road nearly non stop and unles youve got status and tenure travel fees are your problem That gets expensive fast.

A guy like Gallows for example isnt going to make what he was making without some major bonuses.

There is this mystique than the fed everyone is getting rich and the indies everyone starves and that just isnt true.

The top guys get super rich in the fed, more so than they could anywhere else. But the random guys lower on the card can and routinely do make more elsewhere. Depends on the individual.

A guy like Kenny Omega would sacrifice the lions share of his earnings his first year before he renegotiated. Where as if Elias left the WWE he's going to end bagging groceries.

[Jordan]

This is the basically The Bullet Club Law. If you are a high profile member of The Bullet Club then you have booking opprotunities with ROH and NJPW. From there you are making contacts with PWG (if you didn't start out there) which would mean that the whole WWN Network would want to book you, which would mean that the promotions under WWN would want to book you....


But let's say you are Bo Dallas... you know you're going to get bookings from places like New England Championship Wrestling or what I would consider "regional spot indies".... And these guys can get big crowds at times, but only if they book a mega card with former WWE and TNA guys. Bo isn't likely going to be a commodity in workrate promotions that The Bullet Club are hot in.

I think Dolph would've been one who could've followed in Cody's indy footsteps, but I think that he's getting 500,000 a year for like 5 or 6 years and room to work on acting/standup/whatever else he wants to do. That's a dope deal, you can't really beat that.

Let's say Bo is making 250,000 yearly right now, maybe more who knows (in 2015 WWE said the average salary of a WWE Supestar was 500,000). Would he top that on the indies? I doubt it, not in the places that he'd end up working. Would he be able to make a living for the next 5 years? Probably, but not like he'd get in WWE.

And again, Cody is one of the few who was passionate enough about the arch of his career to leave guaranteed gold to go out and get star ratings from Dave.

[Bad News Gertner]

I totally get NXT guys making more on the Indies, but what about guys like Jack Swagger, Damian Sandow etc. There's no way that they are making more on the Indies. I heard Cody's price is $2500 a shot. Swagger can't be getting more than that , although I heard his asking price is more. So if Swagger is pulling in when it's all said and done $5000-7000 a month on the Indies, is that better than what he was doing in the Fed?

[Bad News Gertner]

Do alot of guys price themselves out of bookings? I've heard that was an issue with quite a few ex WWE talents.

Also, doesn't the WWE pay for any injuries you suffer? I can't imagine how much it would cost to get insurance if you're an indie guy?

[Jordan]

Observer reported this time last year that Swagger was asking 4,000. I know that when promotions work together they can sometimes get guys on discount. Do my show for 2500 then the next night Gabe can pay you 2,000 kind of deals.

I remember hearing that Mysterio was out pricing himself about a year after he left WWE but then he went to Mexico and got in great shape and brought his stock back up to where he is now, choosing between three companies.

I've also read that Ryback thinks he's bigger than he is which is why you never read about him making dates.

[Jordan]

Had to go on and search for Ryback and see what he's doing. He has two appearances at WM Week, two signings on the 6th, and then the 7th. He couldn't even get booked in a match. His website is all about his shitty looking pre and post workout supplements. I gotta admit to you, there's something about Ryback that isn't "right". He's got some delusional traits that really turn me off. I'm sure he'll return for a hot spot someday but I'm not interested currently.

[erickman]

Had to go on and search for Ryback and see what he's doing. He has two appearances at WM Week, two signings on the 6th, and then the 7th. He couldn't even get booked in a match. His website is all about his shitty looking pre and post workout supplements. I gotta admit to you, there's something about Ryback that isn't "right". He's got some delusional traits that really turn me off. I'm sure he'll return for a hot spot someday but I'm not interested currently.

sad he can't even get on impact. I wonder what Richard justice the alt wrestler is doing wrestlemania weekend

[Anybody Thrilla]

Jason Jordan, this guy could cure every form of cancer and still have the crowd shitting on him, they just don't buy into him or this retarded story-line he was involved with.

He's about to be one of the hottest heels when he comes back, I feel.

[Luigi]

Jason Jordan, this guy could cure every form of cancer and still have the crowd shitting on him, they just don't buy into him or this retarded story-line he was involved with.

With respect to your post, I believe that you have very substantial gaps in your understanding of professional wrestling if you believe that to be the case. All indications point to Jason Jordan having a very strong run as a heel for the company. I'd be interested in hearing as to why you feel otherwise.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think Fandango still has a way to go in WWE.

Goddammit, I wish you were right. He's the most wasted potential WWE has ever seen.

[Luigi]

Goddammit, I wish you were right. He's the most wasted potential WWE has ever seen.

I think D'Lo Brown might have something to say about that.

The dude was getting very good face pops back in 2000. Unfortunately, the Drozdov incident, combined with the rumours of him jumping ship to WCW, made him the WWE's whipping boy.

[Ruien]

Ryback.

[Simple Fan]

Mojo. It's clear they don't plan to utilize him all that much let alone push him anytime soon.

No, he's clearly there to get Gronk into the WWE.

[#1-norm-fan]

Ryback.

Ryback and Johnny Curtis as the faces of Raw and Smackdown respectively. Money.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Apparently Rusev is asking for his release. He's a good one. Talented guy who's been completely underutilized since his initial run.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I predicted he would do this by the end of the year, sadly. If his happiness is at stake and he and Lana have both saved their money, this is a viable option for them.

[Gerard]

Brocks fucking off soon, potentially after Sunday. Can't say i'm sorry to see him go, just been a lazy fat prick that does the bare minimum, a stark contrast to his first run in the company.

[Fignuts]

I used to feel this way, and even made a whole rant thread about it. But over time, I've thought about it and I'm pretty much of the opinion it's not Brock's fault.

I mean if you could perform a job you weren't passionate about, but could get away with being lazy, and get paid millions of dollars to do so, wouldn't you.

Like if you got paid 10 million dollars to work at Walmart for 12 days a year, but you didn't actually have to give a shit while you were there, would you? I don't think most people would.

Mind you, I still think it sucks and I'll be glad he's gone too, but I don't have any hate for brock anymore.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, I can't fault anyone for not having passion for their "art" while performing in WWE. He put in the work to become a star and make himself valuable to WWE. Good on his part.

[EIWF]

Shane McMahon, its not going to end well for him. With Steph and Triple H above him he will be sideways promoted.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Brock vs. AJ was the WWE Match of the Year in 2017. Don't get people's gripe with him. He does what he is paid to do. The WWE sucks around Brock -- not his fault.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

When he's put into something meaningful and interesting, Lesnar shows up for work. His return match with Cena was stellar. His match against Punk was stellar. His squash match on Cena, followed by the triple thread at the Rumble and his match against Roman at mania during that title run was stellar.

Even his two matches with Taker as well as the Styles match were great. Even the Goldberg match a year ago was great even though it was short. When Lesnar is put into something worth a lick he steps it up. I don't blame him for phoning it in against the Dean Ambroses and other throw away matches of the world.

[Mr. Nerfect]

When he's put into something meaningful and interesting, Lesnar shows up for work. His return match with Cena was stellar. His match against Punk was stellar. His squash match on Cena, followed by the triple thread at the Rumble and his match against Roman at mania during that title run was stellar.

Even his two matches with Taker as well as the Styles match were great. Even the Goldberg match a year ago was great even though it was short. When Lesnar is put into something worth a lick he steps it up. I don't blame him for phoning it in against the Dean Ambroses and other throw away matches of the world.

100% this.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Going to go throw Cesaro out there again. I'd maybe see what they gave me to do until SummerSlam -- like, am I moving to SmackDown and will I get to wrestle AJ Styles and Shinsuke Nakamura? Or am I the dude that loses to kids?

[SenatorJPO]

I found this video, in-which 10 wrestlers are alleged to have profited more post-WWE than they did during their peak in WWE.
http://youtuberepeater.com/watch?v=9ukMw3x0m_g&name=10+Ex+WWE+Wrestlers+Who+Got+Richer+After+Leaving+CM+Punk+Ryback+and+more
(http://youtuberepeater.com/watch?v=9ukMw3x0m_g&name=10+Ex+WWE+Wrestlers+Who+Got+Richer+After+Leaving+CM+Punk+Ryback+and+more)
Going by the match frequency and the charge-per-appearance some of those guys do, it seems feasible those listed are commanding a higher hourly wage -- but not annual total wages.

For instance, Ryback charges at-least $4,500 per appearance.

Source: https://www.inquisitr.com/3406974/wwe-news-backstage-update-on-rybacks-next-move-following-wwe-departure/

If he were to wrestle a schedule comparable to what he had done in WWE, then he'd be earning:

$4,500 * 200 matches = $900,000, which would be comparable to his WWE salary.

However, Ryback wrestles about one-fifth of his WWE schedule, which reduces his annual earnings to $180,000.

What I'm saying is that some of the claims in the video seem ill-supported.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Given how a lot of wrestlers talk, it wouldn’t surprise me that a lot of them were really bad at maths.

[Sepholio]

I feel like Noid is 133 1/3% correct in his assessment of wrestlers overall mathematic ability.

[erickman]

I feel like Noid is 133 1/3% correct in his assessment of wrestlers overall mathematic ability.

is that scot steiner math

[Mr. Nerfect]

I feel like Noid is 133 1/3% correct in his assessment of wrestlers overall mathematic ability.

It's impossible to be over 101%.