How Much Faith: AJ vs Nakumara

[RP]

What faith do you have that this match is last in WM.


I personally think they will fuck it up. But this is the match that should go last. No doubt right?

[Anybody Thrilla]

There's no way in hell it goes last, but I think they'll do a good job of showing everyone why it SHOULD have.

[Triple A]

Either Reigns vs. Lesnar or the Rousey match will be last

Styles vs. Nakamura shouldn't be last imo... feels like it might not even be a good match based on all of Nakamura's other matches in WWE so far................

[RP]

Anything else is a bullshit job.

[RP]

I'll be stunned if it'd not the last match. No way Reigns vs Lesnar goes last. It's just fucking dumb.

[Anybody Thrilla]

History will be made as the <s>Fabulous Moolah</s> Wrestlemania Women's Battle Royal headlines the show.

[RP]

If WWE is about making money, the money is with AJ vs Nak right? Thats the elite match of the entire program. What am I missing?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'll be stunned if it'd not the last match. No way Reigns vs Lesnar goes last. It's just fucking dumb.

Dude. Have you ever seen Wrestlemania?

[RP]

History will be made as the <s>Fabulous Moolah</s> Wrestlemania Women's Battle Royal headlines the show.


lol Good riddance. Moolah need's to go anyhow. Everything i've researched on her is bad bad bad.

[RP]

Dude. Have you ever seen Wrestlemania?

Ok stop. You know the answer to that. My thread is about what should be. Step in line with your thoughts.

[RP]

There is a international part to this. WWE, by putting AJ vs Nakumara as the ME, gains the New Japan Pro Wrestling crowd and other oversee's. So not only do they get the ratings, but they get a fucking great match put out also. Why wouldnt this be the Main Event?

[Anybody Thrilla]

That's what I've been doing. I don't understand what on earth would make you think that the match will go on last. All signs are definitely pointing to Lesnar/Reigns.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why does it have to be the main event to gain fans? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

[RP]

That's what I've been doing. I don't understand what on earth would make you think that the match will go on last. All signs are definitely pointing to Lesnar/Reigns.

I'm willing to make a forum friendly bet otherwise. I think AJ vs Nak will be the final match.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'd be super down with it going on last, but they treat the WWE champion like a second tier to the Universal champion. Oddly enough.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'm willing to make a forum friendly bet otherwise. I think AJ vs Nak will be the final match.

Sure. Month of avatars?

[RP]

Why does it have to be the main event to gain fans? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

It's not why would.. its why couldnt it? It's a match for a brands top title . It could easily be the main event.

[RP]

Sure. Month of avatars?

We choose avatars? You're on.

[RP]

Something that cant be changed or banned by admins for sure.

[RP]

Which hampers my attempt of making you have a black cock as your avatar. Which sucks because it works so good considering you are white.

[Anybody Thrilla]

See, I think the Universal is the top title in their eyes.

[RP]

See, I think the Universal is the top title in their eyes.

If it's so good, why do they need to push it?

[RP]

we have a agreement btw.. dont change things

[Anybody Thrilla]

What are you even saying?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, agreement, sure.

You really think they'd put their "top" title on Smackdown?

[RP]

i dont understand?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'll put it this way. One show has Mojo Rawley on it.

[RP]

Yeah, agreement, sure.

You really think they'd put their "top" title on Smackdown?

I do. I think they are thinking " Internationally " . I think they are aware of New Japan. I think they will pander to the wrestling crowd, by putting AJ vs Nak as the Main Event. I love my bet. Thanks.

[Anybody Thrilla]

You're welcome for your losing bet, I guess.

[RP]

You're welcome for your losing bet, I guess.

I forgive your ignorance

[Anybody Thrilla]

Styles v. Nakamura might be on the Kickoff, for real.

[Ruien]

If WWE is about making money, the money is with AJ vs Nak right? Thats the elite match of the entire program. What am I missing?

Nak and AJ don't draw. Brock does. Hulk Hogan was never the best wrestler on the card but he is the draw. Cena draws. Reigns has the possibility of becoming a draw. AJ is the best wrestler in the WWE but he isn't bringing in a ton of fans.

The biggest draw goes on last. That is Brock. Maybe Ronda.

[RP]

Styles v. Nakamura might be on the Kickoff, for real.

Can i double down on this????

[RP]

Nak and AJ don't draw. Brock does. Hulk Hogan was never the best wrestler on the card but he is the draw. Cena draws. Reigns has the possibility of becoming a draw. AJ is the best wrestler in the WWE but he isn't bringing in a ton of fans.

The biggest draw goes on last. That is Brock. Maybe Ronda.

You're not understanding. The only reason Jinder Mahal happened was because of international ratings. This is about international ratings man. Get a clue.

[RP]

WWE is looking to branch out for international ratings.

[RP]

I love my bet.

[Anybody Thrilla]

You're clearly the one not understanding here.

[RP]

AJ dropping the title to Shinsuke.....In a great match.... Yep... Main Event.

[RP]

You're clearly the one not understanding here.

I really think i am. Honestly.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, I get it. You keep saying that.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I wish this was one of those dog poop bets.

[Ruien]

You're not understanding. The only reason Jinder Mahal happened was because of international ratings. This is about international ratings man. Get a clue.

Yes and it didn't work. They wanted him to be a draw. The same amount of people would watch Mania if Nak wasn't on the card. If Brock was not on the card then a lot less people would watch Mania.

Do you understand this now?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Either Reigns vs. Lesnar or the Rousey match will be last

Styles vs. Nakamura shouldn't be last imo... feels like it might not even be a good match based on all of Nakamura's other matches in WWE so far................

People shit on Nak but he's had some pretty damned good matches since joining the fed.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I've only seen his WWE work, and I enjoy him a lot. He was stellar in NXT. I just don't think he's closing this show.

[Anybody Thrilla]

He was jobbing to Jinder Mahal just months ago. Brock hasn't been beaten in eons. That should be enough right there to understand the "levity" of things.

[Destor]

I expect it to open and get 25 min.

[Destor]

side bar: when is mania?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Sunday

[Destor]

neat

[Destor]

Special 2p/e start or what?

[RP]

wow, They are drawing nothing with Reigns vs Lesnar.

[RP]

Aj vs Nakumara draws worldwide.

[RP]

I feel great about my bet .

[Destor]

What are people going to ask for a refund after theyve aleady sat down for the show?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Nakamura just texted me and said they're not going on last.

[RP]

Nakamura just texted me and said they're not going on last.

woot!

[Destor]

Nakamura just texted me and said they're not going on last.
Seems fishy. Doubt he can write in english

[Anybody Thrilla]

I have a translator app.

[RP]

Nakamura just texted me and said they're not going on last.

I kinda dont belelieve this

[Destor]

oh, carry on

[RP]

I think you're wrong.

[RP]

I think this thing ends like i say it will.

[Anybody Thrilla]

The chances of me getting a text from Nakamura are exactly the same as the chances of AJ and Nakamura closing Wrestlemania.

[RP]

The chances of me getting a text from Nakamura are exactly the same as the chances of AJ and Nakamura closing Wrestlemania.

what?

[RP]

whats going on here?

[RP]

Are you getting text from Nakumara??????????

[Destor]

lol

[RP]

inside sources wtf???

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'm a pretty big deal. I'm friends with oVe, you know.

[RP]

Still sticking by my ME predictions

[Emperor Smeat]

Zero chance.

Now that Bryan's officially back for in-ring stuff, his tag match has a way better chance than Styles-Nakamura if WWE actually wanted to go with something that wouldn't get hated by the crowd to close Mania.

[Destor]

Silk will comfirm this for us. Give him a bit

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, Styles vs. Nakamura is not main eventing.

[Simple Fan]

I think it has a good chance of going on last and should but I don't think it will. They clearly see more in the Brock/Reigns fued for some reason.

[Ruien]

I don't even think Nak and AJ would be the 4th option to close out the show. Brock/Reigns, Rhonda March, Cena/Taker, Daniel's match would all close out the show before Nak and AJ without any second thoughts.

Hell, Bruan and Alexis Bliss beating the Bar would main event before Nak and AJ.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think it has a good chance of going on last and should but I don't think it will. They clearly see more in the Brock/Reigns fued for some reason.

For some reason? Raw Title, three years of build, Brock, Reigns. The story of Cena vs. Taker is basically Cena trying to join them as men who have beaten The Undertaker at WrestleMania. This has been Vince's play for the longest time.

There are rumors that Brock/Reigns isn't going to main event. I don't really believe that, but it wouldn't shock me if Cena/Taker or Triple H got the main event. Really though, I think smart money is on Brock/Reigns closing the show. My pick for opener is actually Triple H.

[Ruien]

Nak and AJ want even the focus on SD for the past 2 months.

[Jordan]

This match is better served to the show and to itself to not be in the main event. This match at its best will be totally different than Brock Lesnar/Roman Reigns at it's best, but in that equation, comparing the two matches at their "best", Roman and Brock should close the show. They are going to beat the fuck out of each other and it doesn't matter if you hate Roman or are upset with Lesnar for possibly leaving, you are gonna pop when you actually hear the sound of Roman's stiff shots on Lesnar. And when Lesnar decides to do his WM special and rough up Roman in some kind of ultraviolent UFC way... you really just can't follow that.

AJ and Nak at it's best will be amazing and a thrill ride, and I'm sure with it's share of realistic looking shots. But it doesn't have near the HEAT that Lesnar and Roman does. People are going to boo the shit out of Lesnar regardless the match more than anyone on the show. That's already MEGA HEAT. Then throw in Lesnar, just being as over and awesome as Lesnar is. Combine both those things with the really solid booking so far, and we have Lesnar marks loosing their shit when Roman clocks him and gets near falls, you have Roman haters that will sing their hate throughout the entire match at the top of their lungs, and you have Roman marks who no matter how many people boo him, can drown out the sound and show that he is a baby face, he is THE GUY to a large portion of the audience.

Brock and Lesnar, the final match.

[#1-norm-fan]

What is this? There's no chance Nakamura vs Styles headlines. Can't tell if RP is doing some weird gimmick here or something. Nakamura and Styles are basically midcarders compared to Brock, Reigns, Rousey, etc. As good as the match might be technically, they're not gonna end the show with a whimper star power-wise.

[Juan]

Now I hope AJ/Nakamura does close the show

[XL]

What is this? There's no chance Nakamura vs Styles headlines. Can't tell if RP is doing some weird gimmick here or something. Nakamura and Styles are basically midcarders compared to Brock, Reigns, Rousey, etc. As good as the match might be technically, they're not gonna end the show with a whimper star power-wise.

I think he’s “being Trump”.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wouldn't put it past the WWE to get all the SmackDown matches done and then move onto the Raw stuff. I mean, probably not, but I was just thinking about match order. I think they know Styles and Nakamura are going to tear it up, and it's going to be tough to follow it, but Bryan's return can do that. And I can see them riding that wave into Charlotte vs. Asuka, which they could promote as the "SmackDown portion main event." I dunno, I'm just spit-balling here.

1. US Title
2. SD Tag Titles
3. WWE Title
4. Bryan
5. SD Women's Title
6. IC Title
7. Raw Tag Titles
8. Raw Women's Title
9. Mixed Tag
10. Cena/Taker
11. Brock/Reigns

[Rammsteinmad]

I want it to go last because Nakamura won the Royal Rumble and I'm a traditionalist, but I feel he should be in THE main event. Also, because AJ Styles MORE than deserves to be in the main event, and in all honesty it's just something new and fresh.

But... you can tell even on all the promotional material that Nakamura is such an afterthought. Cena, Reigns, Lesnar, Triple H etc... "the usuals" are at the forefront. Yay...

[Mr. Nerfect]

I get what you're saying, but traditionally the Rumble has been a lazy device to set up mid-card matches since 2006.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this promotional tactic, but the WWE has been purposefully cold in setting up a lot of stuff this Mania. They are not selling the show on the WWE Title match. It's Brock and Reigns, Rousey making her debut, we treat women seriously and thank fuck we got Bryan back. And I think that is actually going to help Styles and Nakamura.

The WWE -- right, wrong or otherwise -- seems to be setting up a lot of surprises for Mania. Cena vs. Taker is not officially confirmed, and looks like it might be an "impromptu match" at Mania. Um, what? We don't know how good (or bad) Rousey is going to be. Angle is also a variable. Braun's partner hasn't been officially announced. There are rumors that the SmackDown Tag Titles will be on the line in a TLC Match that hasn't been confirmed. And Styles/Nakamura is only a known quantity to hardcore fans. Yes, they make up a more present section of the audience, but there are still people who have never heard of New Japan and frankly don't give a shit. Their reactions when they see Styles/Nakamura is going to be part of the story around the match.

It's almost as if the WWE wants you to think of this as Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger or Del Rio vs. Edge or Sheamus vs. Bryan. I mean, they aren't trying to bury their title or anything (they did enough of that with Jinder), but they are setting this up to be a sleeper hit. The only people who are really champing at the bit to see this match are the ones who are familiar with the New Japan one. And that's actually fine for this, because they aren't banking on it hard and it's so clearly not the main event.

[Mr. Nerfect]

After WrestleMania, Shinsuke Nakamura's stock will be much higher than it is now. And in whatever remains of kayfabe, he's supposed to be a "WWE Main Eventer." He's beaten Orton and Cena on TV, was in a SummerSlam title match and has won a Royal Rumble. To Little Johnny Casual, he's supposed to be "good," but they're setting him up to catch as a lot of people's favorite after Mania.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I will state that I don't have any faith in WWE to be able to ride any wave they create effectively or for very long. I imagine they will do their best to have Nakamura do "funny" backstage skits and play up how "eccentric" he is. I believe the particulars of how they handle him will still irk hardcore fans of Nakamura who followed him in Japan heading out of WrestleMania, just as they do going in -- I just feel that WrestleMania is going to be extremely effective in increasing Shinsuke's stock with audiences.

[Jordan]

I think AJ retains, I think it's a time to solidify him as one of the real top guys.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm starting to come around on AJ retaining. Mainly because it's Nakamura's first Mania and they love fucking with guys' momentum and making them work for things. But I think it does fit the story too, with Nakamura getting the belt later. Bryan's return also shakes things up and re-prioritizes things.

[#1-norm-fan]

I definitely have a feeling AJ is gonna retain. Nakamura lost clean to Jinder. I'm pretty sure they just like using him as a guy the smarks love that can be used to ultimately just help put others over.

[Blonde Moment]

Vince doesn't have any confidence in Nakamura, AJ retains.

[Simple Fan]

I think Nakamura wins. AJ doesn't need the win and it would do alot more for Nakamura. That being said I totally understand why everyone thinks AJ will win. I just think he'll be switching brands and be the Universal Champion by Summerslam.

[Ruien]

AJ needs to win and continue to win. He can become a legit big deal if they utilize him right.

[Destor]

Doesnt matter who wins. The belt means nothing.

[Evil Vito]

I actually see Asuka/Charlotte opening the show with the Raw women's title being somewhere in the middle of the card, probably after either Cena/Taker or Styles/Nakamura since it'll be a quick squash/cool down type thing. And the mixed tag probably second or third to last.

[Ruien]

Doesnt matter who wins. The belt means nothing.

The belt means nothing but AJ still has the ability to become a legit star. Not on a Cena level but as the tier directly below Cena. Keep him winning and being put in good feuds. It should be a big deal when he loses.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Now I hope AJ/Nakamura does close the show

You ever thought of maybe shutting your mouth, fella?

[Jordan]

I actually see Asuka/Charlotte opening the show with the Raw women's title being somewhere in the middle of the card, probably after either Cena/Taker or Styles/Nakamura since it'll be a quick squash/cool down type thing. And the mixed tag probably second or third to last.

I like the idea of Auska/Charlotte opening and also Ronda/Steph going 2nd to last works for me too.

[XL]

Don’t think it will go last. I do expect to see a Kinshasa reversed into a Calf Crusher, and a Phenominal Forearm reversed with a Kinshasa.

[Fignuts]

I mean, if AJ's work with Cena didn't make him a top guy in your mind, I don't think beating Nakamura and holding it for a few more months is going to do the trick.

I agree that the Smackdown title isn't as prestigious as the Universal, but it definitely feels elevated when AJ is holding it. Overall, I think AJ has been treated really well in his WWE run, and I don't think he can really get any bigger than he has already.

Nakamura hasn't been booked quite as consistently, but well enough where he could win the belt in an epic match and ride that momentum into a meaningful, quality title reign that brings just as much to the belt as AJ can.

If it's booked right and they don't shit the bed like Noid is predicting of course.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't think there are plans to build up AJ to be any bigger than he already is, but I can just see the WWE having AJ retain because:

1) It's Nakamura's first WrestleMania. Call it AJ Styles or Ryback Syndrome. You ain't going over at your first Mania because we want to test you.

2) Most of the belts seem like they are changing hands. I can see it being the lowest priority for a change.

3) All logic seems to dictate a title win for the babyface challenger. Fuck logic. Let's surprise the fans!

4) We can always give the belt to Nakamura later.

5) Daniel Bryan is back. We want Bryan to win the belt at some point. No point in trying to make a new champion right now.

6) Roman Reigns winning is the big story. They've had two World Title changes before, but this is a The Roman Reigns Story.

I can just see everybody pissing themselves over the match, only for it to end when Nakamura goes for a Kinshasa but it is countered into a Calf-Crusher and Nakamura taps out and everybody is like "Huh?" But as Destor said, it's not like the belt actually matters, so whatever. I'm not going to be shocked either way. I can just see the WWE reasons for AJ Styles continuing on as champion.

[Destor]

It a match that who goes over doesnt matter anyway. The just need to kill each other for a half hour. It'll get both guys over

[Vastardikai]

AJ wins in 10 seconds.

Clean.

In the Pre-Show.

To accommodate Undertaker's 2 hour long entrance.

[Fignuts]

Bryan being back honestly makes a Nakamura win more logical.

For as much as they've touted Nakamura vs AJ as a dream match, it's a match we have already seen before. The true dream match is Nakamura vs Bryan. It's the main reason Nakamura is in WWE in the first place.

Nakamura beats AJ for the title, and gets a good strong run leading up to summerslam where he faces Bryan in their second biggest event of the year. Whether Bryan wins or Nakamura retains is a whole other (absolutely loaded) topic.

Mind you I could absolutely see AJ retaining for all the reasons Noid listed, and I wouldn't even be disappointed really, as I like AJ as champ, but the above scenario is the most ideal to me.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It a match that who goes over doesnt matter anyway. The just need to kill each other for a half hour. It'll get both guys over

I think that logic seeps in to the company's train of thought too. Naka will just look good being there.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Well what do we have here...

[KIRA]

What is this? There's no chance Nakamura vs Styles headlines. Can't tell if RP is doing some weird gimmick here or something. Nakamura and Styles are basically midcarders compared to Brock, Reigns, Rousey, etc. As good as the match might be technically, they're not gonna end the show with a whimper star power-wise.
Yes they'll just end it with a video package and deafening silence in comparison to the two mid-card guys

[Fignuts]

Feel like very few stops were pulled in this match. Felt overly safe and formulaic, tbh. The strike exchange towards the end and the finish were really the only real stand out moments in the match for me. Everything else kind of just felt like "getting their shit in", as they would on your standard Raw or Smackdown match. Which for these two guys, still leads to a good match, but no where near what they are capable of, or should be putting on, on a stage this big.

So yeah. Match itself was kind of a disappointment, but the aftermath REALLY softens the blow, because heel Nak opens up lots of possibilities.

[Sting Fan]

Agree with Fignuts 100%, it almost felt like they were limiting themselves or trying to tell a "traditional" WWE Heavyweight match. The problem with that is both of them are popular because they arent traditional WWE Heavyweight or work that style.

Weird and I felt uninspired. Also was the crowd 100% dead like it seemed or were the crowd mics down?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Also agree

[Emperor Smeat]

Feel like very few stops were pulled in this match. Felt overly safe and formulaic, tbh.

Wouldn't be surprised if Styles getting hurt very close to Mania also hampered its potential.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes they'll just end it with a video package and deafening silence in comparison to the two mid-card guys

Live crowd was more into the actual main event. Actual main event also had WAY more appeal to any casuals tuning in because it was free. They got it right. Even with the heel turn, AJ and Nakamura closing the show would have been anticlimactic to a comedic level.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What's the point of this heel turn?

[Fignuts]

What's the point of this heel turn?

I dunno. Don't care though. Heel Nak seems a lot more interesting than what they've been doing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I guess they might be thinking they're going to have him against Bryan and Styles in coming months, so why not try and shed some of that bland babyface ju-ju.

[Jordan]

Big disappointment for me, but a predictable one. Nakamaura was at his best since going to Smackdown! here but still not enough to capture the crowd and own the moment until after the bell rang. I wish it could've been positioned differently but the card was laid out really well... so I think it falls on them not capturing the crowd and owning the moment until after the match. Perhaps I will look at it with different eyes a few years from now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Posted this in the official thread, but I loved the match. I think WWE television is generally really dumb, but Nakamura "hits it out of the park" in the way that they want. Saw clips of him faking on the Kinshasa -- dude is cheeky as fuck. I love it. I don't know if I will watch just because of Nakamura, but he's really good at what he does, folks, and I think Vince would have been happy with this as an overall performance. Vince used to like stories, and this one has a fairly meaty one for modern WWE standards. And it's simple.

Wrestling is supposed to tell a story of conflict. It's easy to forget that when you get caught up in the internet bubble. There is conflict here. There is conflict between Shinsuke and AJ Styles (obviously). There is also conflict between Shinsuke Nakamura and the fans and what their respect is worth. And there is conflict within himself and whether or not he can make it in the WWE.

I dunno, I kind of dig it. At least until they turn him into a comedy ninja or whatever. For now, I think it's good ol' rasslin. Good Guy Shin comes over to be the big star and be known as the best wrestler in the world, only for the fans to whinge about how disappointing he is, because he's more focused on winning than putting on a show and damaging his body. But he's unable to wrest the WWE Championship away from the real best wrestler on the planet, so Good Guy Shin makes a deal with the devil on his shoulder.

Now I want to see more AJ vs. Nakamura matches, and I'm excited because they might tell an evolving story instead of just being a whole bunch of kicks to the head and kicking out of each other's finishers.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I do wish that the dumb-ass fans would shut the fuck up and boo the heels though. If you're supposed to be smart, play along.

[#1-norm-fan]

Nakamura is a natural heel. Turning him was a good call even though it's too little too late.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Intellectually, I don't like that I've already seen him lose to AJ Styles, but I'm just going to try and switch my brain off for that program. It'll be nice to see him lead matches instead of sitting in Dolph Ziggler chinlocks for two minutes.

[Simple Fan]

I do wish that the dumb-ass fans would shut the fuck up and boo the heels though. If you're supposed to be smart, play along.

Maybe they just like the heels better and don't care about playing along.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Then fuck up with your annoying chants.

[Simple Fan]

What chants are annoying to you? Only one I really hate is the "you deserve it" chants.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Almost every single one I've heard in clips of the show, to be honest, haha. But within that case "Knees to faces."

[Mr. Nerfect]

Other annoying chants:

"This is awesome"

"This is awful"

"You've still got it" (after Angle threw one punch)

[Simple Fan]

You prefer a silent crowd like in Japan then?

[Simple Fan]

Other annoying chants:

"This is awesome"

"This is awful"

"You've still got it" (after Angle threw one punch)

The this is awful chant was great. You've still got it is a bit annoying, yes.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I owe RP an avatar.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You prefer a silent crowd like in Japan then?

Is that what I said?

[Simple Fan]

No that's what I asked.

[Mr. Nerfect]

No.

[Fignuts]

Posted this in the official thread, but I loved the match. I think WWE television is generally really dumb, but Nakamura "hits it out of the park" in the way that they want. Saw clips of him faking on the Kinshasa -- dude is cheeky as fuck. I love it. I don't know if I will watch just because of Nakamura, but he's really good at what he does, folks, and I think Vince would have been happy with this as an overall performance. Vince used to like stories, and this one has a fairly meaty one for modern WWE standards. And it's simple.

Wrestling is supposed to tell a story of conflict. It's easy to forget that when you get caught up in the internet bubble. There is conflict here. There is conflict between Shinsuke and AJ Styles (obviously). There is also conflict between Shinsuke Nakamura and the fans and what their respect is worth. And there is conflict within himself and whether or not he can make it in the WWE.

I dunno, I kind of dig it. At least until they turn him into a comedy ninja or whatever. For now, I think it's good ol' rasslin. Good Guy Shin comes over to be the big star and be known as the best wrestler in the world, only for the fans to whinge about how disappointing he is, because he's more focused on winning than putting on a show and damaging his body. But he's unable to wrest the WWE Championship away from the real best wrestler on the planet, so Good Guy Shin makes a deal with the devil on his shoulder.

Now I want to see more AJ vs. Nakamura matches, and I'm excited because they might tell an evolving story instead of just being a whole bunch of kicks to the head and kicking out of each other's finishers.

This is the main reason people were disappointed

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xqp5z2yARdw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now, most people weren't naïve enough to think we were going to get the same kind of match, given they are two different companies with two different styles. But there are certain things in that match that made it great that go beyond match styles.

First off they were noticeably quicker in their first outing. Maybe AJ's injury played a factor in this match's slower pace. I don't know.

Secondly, they built to, and hit the bigger spots and near falls in a way that felt organic, and fit into the match naturally. The mania match, as I said earlier just felt much more produced. Hate to use the word choreographed outside of flippy floppy acrobatic junior matches, but that's kind of what it felt like. The Wrestle Kingdom match had much more natural feeling spots and shifts in momentum. Even something like that back and forth exchange at the beginning where AJ dodges the kick at the end. That one little exchange helped to set the tone that the Mania match was missing. WK match really felt like two of the best in the world, repeatedly countering eachother, neither able to maintain control for long because they're both so damn good.


And once again, the mania match was still very good. While it catered more to your typical WWE heavyweight match formula, they still told a good story, and if it were anyone else I'd probably be giving them more praise. The problem is it's not anyone else. It's AJ and Nakamura, and they set the god damn world on fire in their previous match, so it's impossible for me and a lot of other people to see this as anything but underwhelming.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've actually seen the AJ/Shin match, but thanks for sharing. I might go back and watch it because I remember really enjoying it.

I'm sure the original was faster. AJ and Shin were two years younger, two years fresher and were in what I imagine is a smaller ring with cables and a production style that doesn't mind getting close as opposed to making it look like they are fighting in a huge open space. Even if WrestleMania wasn't faster, I'm sure the emotionless, inorganic, forced commentary that either misses or manufactures emotional cues would have made it felt slower. Seriously, I wonder how much that effected thing?

I dunno, I just loved so much about the Mania match. I loved Nakamura wearing similar colors to AJ Styles, as this symbolic form of respect. I loved Nakamura planting the seeds of desperation throughout. Besides a better crowd, I can't really think of anything that would have enhanced the match for me. Honestly. Not in their first go-around of many, anyway. I think their second match will be more "intense."

I dunno -- I think fans need to be re-educated and reminded that not everything needs to be 100 all the time. I can understand people were probably expecting it for WrestleMania, so maybe it wasn't actually the best place to run the first match between the two. Whatever. I'm as cynical as they come and I fucking loved it. Seriously, I cannot remember a WWE Title match at Mania that I thought was bell-to-bell better. Maybe Angle vs. Brock, but it's been ages since I've seen that. I might be cutting Angle and Eddie short too. I remember being slightly disappointed by that, but I remember the finish with the boot well.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Brock vs. Reigns was still coming. No matter what you think of it, the philosophy was probably there to not go 100 before that so that Reigns kicking out of F5s would get over. That obviously didn't work, but I'm not sure how much "freedom" AJ and Nakamura had here, in the sense that maybe eighteen Kinshasas or whatever wasn't on the table.

That being said, I honestly really liked it. I really enjoyed the performances in the mixed tag, but this was a much better match -- in my opinion.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think I'm defending it so much because I got the impression from people that they shit the bed. They definitely didn't do that, haha.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't think it's that they shit the bed. They just didn't deliver a classic after everyone talking about how it was their chance to deliver a classic. But they executed the heel turn well, which was what counted.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I dunno, I think I'll remember that match for a long time. Styles calling bullshit on Shin's cockiness; the counter to good vibrations; Nakamura's caterwauling; his kick to Styles perched on top; Kinshasa to the back of the head; that perfect Phenomenal Forearm; the finish. I only remembered the back body drop, the missile dropkick and the dragon superplex from Omega/Okada.

I get that people were disappointed, and they follow closer than me; but I fucking loved this match. It reminded me of Angle vs. Benoit from X-7. Thought it was great. I'm reluctant to throw "classic" at something so soon after it's happened.

[Fignuts]

Honestly, I'm taking a wait and see approach. It's entirely possible that after deciding on the Nak heel turn, they told them to take it easy in this match, so as not to blow their wad on the first match of the feud. Better to have the harder hitting, more intense match when things are more personal. So as a one off rematch of their WK encounter it may be underwhelming to me, but as one part of a greater overall story, I think I will appreciate it more.

If WWE can manage to make that story compelling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think Styles and Nakamura have their faith. I just have this feeling that Vince is a legitimate fan of AJ Styles. He went from having him cut-off from speaking in segments to being "The Face that Runs the Place." When the WWE Champion flops, either as a face or heel, he's the first port of call. He's like Bret Hart, I suppose. And I think Vince "gets it" enough with Nakamura, or else he wouldn't be in this position. And I can just imagine heel Nak's antics cracking Vince up.

I think he will be "out of their way" on this one and kind of watching as a fan. It's just a hunch. The storytelling between the participants -- including Daniel Bryan on SmackDown -- has been brilliant thus far. I do hope people look back at this more fondly and as a building thing.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'd need to re-watch the match. But the crowd was exhausted by the time they went on, and they fell into the "big move" sell for a minute into another "big move" sell for a minute, way too fast. IE. WWE style.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In saying that... there were some really nifty spots, and they didn't fuck anything up. It just didn't feel "special" until the heel turn which I legit did not see coming.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I thought it was fluid as fuck. I didn't notice a botch anywhere. But I'll also probably go back and re-watch it. I didn't watch it as part of the show either. I saw it in isolation.

[Fignuts]

I'll also re-watch it, because at that point I was pretty exhausted. They do this every fucking time. They space out the big matches in between the low key bouts, so you have this up and down emotional roller coaster that has you tired by the last few matches.

Meanwhile, Wreslte Kingdom while not as long, is still a brutally long show. But it flies by because there is a natural progression from lower card bout to main event. Mania gives their audience too many oppurtunities to breathe and relax, killing the momentum. Kingdom just builds and builds your adrenaline and excitement, never even giving you the chance to get tired.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, that's a big problem that didn't factor into my enjoyment, because I was mainly interested in Styles/Nakamura so I just sought that out.

[Blue Demon]

While the match didn't quite live up to expectations, it was far from terrible. I think I heard that Styles was hurt, which is why it didn't quite deliver.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yep. I think the consensus was it was good. "Far from terrible" is even harsh.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I honestly think the terrible way they booked the D-Bry match killed the crowd. It made me fucking insane that they did the god damned injury angle. He's been injured for the better part of 3 years. Milking it even more towards the end of a 7 hour show is just fucking retarded. Sucked the life out of the crowd.

[Ruien]

The problem was they just did the wait for the hot tag with Ronda and Angle. Guess they could have Bryan start the match and just never tag out. Shane could have pulled Owen's down from the apron and brawled with him outside the entire time which would let Shane do Shane things. And Bryan gets his moment of course.

[Shisen Kopf]

Are the rumble participants gonna be coming out every minute or will it be 2 minutes like a regular rumble? Show will be way too long if its 2 mins

[#1-norm-fan]

WrestleMania is like 16 hours long now. They're not afraid to go way too long.

Probably just every minute though. Lame.

[Shisen Kopf]

I heard during the pre-show they are going to behead someone.Those arabs know how to put on a show. PrettyCool.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I honestly think the terrible way they booked the D-Bry match killed the crowd. It made me fucking insane that they did the god damned injury angle. He's been injured for the better part of 3 years. Milking it even more towards the end of a 7 hour show is just fucking retarded. Sucked the life out of the crowd.

It sounds really dumb how they put that together. Cornette came up with a better way on the fly. I'd probably have had Bryan just destroy Zayn and Owens for the opening portion of the match, then when he gets done, he tags in Shane who wants a piece. Shane gets his shit in as much as he needs to, and then he takes a bit of a beating and tags in Bryan who goes into kill mode and maybe we get an elbow from Shane and Bryan wins the match for the team.

I dunno, that might not be great, but I don't think people were really tuning into WrestleMania to see Bryan get injured or even sell that much. There will be a time and place for this story, but this should have just been "Holy shit! D-Bry's back! Look how fucking good he still is!"

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It sounds really dumb how they put that together. Cornette came up with a better way on the fly. I'd probably have had Bryan just destroy Zayn and Owens for the opening portion of the match, then when he gets done, he tags in Shane who wants a piece. Shane gets his shit in as much as he needs to, and then he takes a bit of a beating and tags in Bryan who goes into kill mode and maybe we get an elbow from Shane and Bryan wins the match for the team.

I dunno, that might not be great, but I don't think people were really tuning into WrestleMania to see Bryan get injured or even sell that much. There will be a time and place for this story, but this should have just been "Holy shit! D-Bry's back! Look how fucking good he still is!"

I mean... that is booking 101. Would have definitely been better.