Promos are a dying art

[Shisen Kopf]

Back in the day it seemed like there were so many good promos: Cream of the Crop, Hard times, Muck of Avarice, anything from Ric Flair, and Austin's King of the Ring promo, in the last decade i can think of maybe 2 decent promos that actually struck a nerve. The Pipebomb of course and AJ Lee running down the divas division and there seems to be some commonality there. Today it seems like nothing is noteworthy. Nothing is memorable. It all seems so forced and generic. Maybe im looking at the childhood memories with rose colored glasses or maybe its because ive been drinking all afternoon but rasslin today seems to have lost the art of the promo.

[Shisen Kopf]

Except for Miniak....CHW 4 Life!!

[Destor]

Its not nostalgia

[Anybody Thrilla]

There hasn't been a memorable promo since 2011.

[Anybody Thrilla]

And before that? Shit, couldn't tell ya.

[LibSuperstar]

Promos are scripted (at least in WWE). Can't get authenticity that way.

[Lock Jaw]

I liked Daniel Bryan's retirement and unretirement promos...... but again, those were "drawing on reality" and pretty much just "legit talking"

[Emperor Smeat]

Mark Henry's fake retirement promo from 2013 was a very memorable one.

[Shisen Kopf]

Yeah that was good. But I think it's memorable more so bc he swerved everyone, especially Super Cena

[Mr. Nerfect]

Promos are dead. They are "presentation skills" now, and are about filling time during a variety show.

[Juan]

Seems like the only person allowed/able to cut a decent promo is Paul Heyman

[JimmyMess]

you can see everyone trying to remember their lines now. It blows.

[Mr. Nerfect]

you can see everyone trying to remember their lines now. It blows.

You can actually see the gears turning.

[slik]

DBry, Heyman, Elias and KO are really the only guys today who can cut promos and seem absolutely genuine.

[Jordan]

Joe is the best promo right now. He's verging on top level promo's right now.

[slik]

Oh yeah, Joe too! I forgot about Joe!

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Joe is the best promo right now. He's verging on top level promo's right now.

Sadly, he'll go over Daniel Bryan tonight--then nobody else and they'll act like they gave him a big push and he did nothing with it.

[xrodmuc316]

Depends on what you consider a promo. For example, Miz on Talking Smack was incredible, although technically it was an interview segment, but since then he has had great promos. He is at the top of the list.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He is so over fucking rated lol. But that promo on talking smack was great.

[Simple Fan]

Cena, Jericho, Miz, and Orton have the best promos because they're the least scripted. Guys like KO, Joe, and Rollins seem to get by but are not given stupid lines. Agree that its pretty obvious at times that the talent are trying to remember lines.

[Destor]

Ortons are so bland. None of them are memorable.

[#1-norm-fan]

He is so over fucking rated lol. But that promo on talking smack was great.

He wouldn't stand out in another era but compared to today's promos, he's great. And yeah, the Talking Smack promo was phenomenal. Just made me long for the days when guys a) weren't scripted to death and b) actually had something of substance to promo about.

[Lock Jaw]

The lack of good stories also does not lend to good promos.

Cena/Jericho/Miz/Joe/Owens/Heyman are all good talkers and technically give "good promos", but they aren't "memorable promos" because they are usually just in dumb stories that you aren't so invested in that it becomes a "moment".

[#1-norm-fan]

WHEN A WRESTLING COMPANY GETS COMPLACENT, BEGINS SCRIPTING PROMOS AND TAKES THE ABILITY TO SHOW PERSONALITY OUT OF THE WRESTLERS' HANDS AND PUTS IT INTO THE HANDS OF WRITERS WHO TREAT EVERYONE AS THE SAME PAINT-BY-NUMBERS CHARACTER...

THAT'S HARD TIMES! THAT'S HARD TIMES!

[xrodmuc316]

He wouldn't stand out in another era but compared to today's promos, he's great. And yeah, the Talking Smack promo was phenomenal. Just made me long for the days when guys a) weren't scripted to death and b) actually had something of substance to promo about.

But isn't that exactly why he would have stood out in an unscripted era? Based on the example of his unscripted Talking Smack segment, he clearly has the ability.

[Destor]

But isn't that exactly why he would have stood out in an unscripted era? Based on the example of his unscripted Talking Smack segment, he clearly has the ability.

Well the question then becomes is his unscripted work better than those of years gone by...and no. No it isnt.

[BigCrippyZ]

Miz is great when compared to his peers of today. He would've been an entertaining midcard level talent when competing with the talent from around 1999-2003 though. Shows how far things have unfortunately fallen in terms of quality.

[xrodmuc316]

Miz is great when compared to his peers of today. He would've been an entertaining midcard level talent when competing with the talent from around 1999-2003 though. Shows how far things have unfortunately fallen in terms of quality.

Just basing promo skills, Miz was far better than most of the top guys from that era. Rock, Austin, Angle, and Foley were better. But top level guys who got world title runs in that era include Taker, Big Show, Booker T, HHH, Shawn Michaels, and Goldberg, and Miz is a better promo then they were during that era.

And that is not even counting the guys who got lots of title shots without winning it during that era like Kane, Ken Shamrock, or RVD, or the guys WWE tried to push as too guys that didn't pan out like Rikishi or Billy Gunn. Miz beats all of them in promo skills hands down.

[Destor]

If you think the miz is good enough take any of their spots im legit flabbergasted

[Emperor Smeat]

Miz is great when compared to his peers of today. He would've been an entertaining midcard level talent when competing with the talent from around 1999-2003 though. Shows how far things have unfortunately fallen in terms of quality.

Agree. Miz has gotten more comfortable on the mic throughout the years but his promo skills stands out more because majority of the roster is either flat out terrible or given nothing to really work with for scripted promos.

Some that are usually terrible end up being better showing off their skills and charisma in fun or less scripted environments like with the Mixed Match Challenge series or in Youtube/Twitter videos.

[xrodmuc316]

If you think the miz is good enough take any of their spots im legit flabbergasted

Lol no, that's why I started off saying "just promo skills". Promo skills wise yes, ill take Miz over those guys during that era of their careers.

[Dark One]

Oh yeah, Joe too! I forgot about Joe!

Joe's gonna kill you.

How you gonna forget about Joe.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He is so over fucking rated lol. But that promo on talking smack was great.

Thank you! The Talking Smack promo was a promo, but it's not an all-time great. It was great, but stuff like that should be the norm. People just aren't used to promos anymore, so when they heard him talk like he didn't have a script, they were like "Whoa!" And he's been riding it ever since. It makes me wonder just what would happen if good wrestlers were allowed to cut promos, haha.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Just basing promo skills, Miz was far better than most of the top guys from that era. Rock, Austin, Angle, and Foley were better. But top level guys who got world title runs in that era include Taker, Big Show, Booker T, HHH, Shawn Michaels, and Goldberg, and Miz is a better promo then they were during that era.

And that is not even counting the guys who got lots of title shots without winning it during that era like Kane, Ken Shamrock, or RVD, or the guys WWE tried to push as too guys that didn't pan out like Rikishi or Billy Gunn. Miz beats all of them in promo skills hands down.

I dunno, dude. You're normally on the money, but remember when Goldberg came in and obliterated everyone on the mic because no one sounds great anymore? I'm not saying those guys were known for being great promos, but compared to today? Everyone at least seemed to grasp the idea of a promo. Miz would have been like Disco Inferno. Billy Gunn could probably come back and talk more convincingly than most of the roster and people would be like "Wtf? Why is Billy Gunn the best talker?"

Actually, I am curious to see how Jeff Hardy would do in the current climate. Or Shelton Benjamin. Well, I just heard Shelton talk a few weeks ago, and it was pretty dire (sorry, Shelty -- I still love ya), but Jeff legitimately doesn't give a fuck, and I think he could be extremely entertaining in a confident "here's a dude with actual charisma" kind of way.

[xrodmuc316]

I dunno, dude. You're normally on the money, but remember when Goldberg came in and obliterated everyone on the mic because no one sounds great anymore? I'm not saying those guys were known for being great promos, but compared to today? Everyone at least seemed to grasp the idea of a promo. Miz would have been like Disco Inferno. Billy Gunn could probably come back and talk more convincingly than most of the roster and people would be like "Wtf? Why is Billy Gunn the best talker?"

Actually, I am curious to see how Jeff Hardy would do in the current climate. Or Shelton Benjamin. Well, I just heard Shelton talk a few weeks ago, and it was pretty dire (sorry, Shelty -- I still love ya), but Jeff legitimately doesn't give a fuck, and I think he could be extremely entertaining in a confident "here's a dude with actual charisma" kind of way.

Right, but that was 2016 Goldberg, I was strictly talking about the 1999-2003 era that BigCrippy stated. Just like 1996-1997 Shawn Michaels was a better promo than Miz.

My whole point is Miz could have held his own at anytime, sure he wouldn't be a top guy cause it takes more than just great promos, but as per the topic of this thread, Miz is one of the few left that still keeps the true art form of cutting a good Promo alive.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I get what you're saying. I just think he gets to cut them here. I don't know if he would have even gotten a look from the company. I think 2016 Goldberg shows just how lost the promo art is that bad promos from yesteryear are pretty damn good today, haha.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

FYI Noid I saw a recent Jeff Hardy promo and it was as awful as he's ever been

[Mr. Nerfect]

FYI Noid I saw a recent Jeff Hardy promo and it was as awful as he's ever been

Oh. That's a shame. :(

[xrodmuc316]

Thank you! The Talking Smack promo was a promo, but it's not an all-time great. It was great, but stuff like that should be the norm. People just aren't used to promos anymore, so when they heard him talk like he didn't have a script, they were like "Whoa!" And he's been riding it ever since. It makes me wonder just what would happen if good wrestlers were allowed to cut promos, haha.

I think if they just let guys be themselves and just gave them the old bullet points, sure some would fail, but the ones who can do it would make the product so much better.

I think that is the problem though, WWE doesn't want guys they didn't pick getting over, as evident by them going out of there way to bury guys that do far too often.

I also think a guy like Roman would be better off just being himself then badly reciting some crap somebody else wrote for him. I think back to one of the first network specials they did, it was a panel hosted by Austin for WWE 2k15 roster reveal before Summerslam. Roman was just up there being himself and he came across as cool, witty, and believable. Fast forward a few months and Vince is ghostwriting his promos with loony toons quotes, and it's been an uphill battle since.

[xrodmuc316]

I get what you're saying. I just think he gets to cut them here. I don't know if he would have even gotten a look from the company. I think 2016 Goldberg shows just how lost the promo art is that bad promos from yesteryear are pretty damn good today, haha.

Lol exactly. Miz is one of the few that can. Goldberg killed it when he came back, and you could tell he was just being him and speaking his own words built around bullet points. Miz didn't suddenly get better at promos after Talking Smack. He got to be off script on that show, and based on how great that was, he was allowed to be off script more from that point on.

WWE is such a weird place. Vince saw that, saw the buzz it created, and rewarded Miz by featuring him again since vs him just being another guy filling a spot.

But that doesn't mean Vince wants to open it up to everybody. If you go off script and don't hit a grand slam, you are more likely to get jobbed out as punishment than get elevated.

Miz had the balls to take a chance, the skills to deliver, and the ability to follow up with strong work since.

Most of the roster couldn't do all three, but that doesn't diminish Miz's ability, it's just sad so few guys have that ability in today's landscape.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with all of that, except for just some semantic points. Like The Miz taking a chance -- I think that was just what Talking Smack was. And I don't think Miz would necessarily kill it back then. I think he's being judged on a curve because everything is terrible now. But we're just looking at the same issue from a different perspective on that.

[Bad News Gertner]

Miz is the best heel promo in the past 10 years. He's fantastic .

[Destor]

"He's the smartest retard here"

[xrodmuc316]

I agree with all of that, except for just some semantic points. Like The Miz taking a chance -- I think that was just what Talking Smack was. And I don't think Miz would necessarily kill it back then. I think he's being judged on a curve because everything is terrible now. But we're just looking at the same issue from a different perspective on that.

To your point, yes it was the format, but most of it was still terrible. The only people I remember standing out as bright spots on that show were Miz and Alexa Bliss, with an honorable mention to Baron Corbin for being consistently decent.

[Tom Guycott]

"Yep. Prob'ly the hardest match I ever had in my life. But I don't like it- when things aren't my going my way."

[Fignuts]

Miz is the best heel promo in the past 10 years. He's fantastic .

Elias is starting to give him a run for his money. Promo on raw was great. Even got the crowd to turn against him after their initial pop. Not an easy task in today's environment.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Miz is the best heel promo in the past 10 years. He's fantastic .

7/10 is not fantastic.

[Bad News Gertner]

He's more than 7/10

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'll concede. He's 7.2/10.

You love schlock so much.

[slik]

Miz is 10/10 on promos

[Destor]

You think miz is one of the best promos of all time?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

some people like shit as hollow as crappy Easter chocolate.

Miz is excellent at speaking words. The talking smack promo was the closest thing we've ever seen him do that could have created buzz and drawn money.

[thekrow]

Not in the backyard.


While the WWE may have lost there touch with promos lately, athletes in the backyard are still cutting good ones.
Just check out CWBs promo before his latest match for your promo fix!


Enjoy.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZPTGA779tLo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media"></iframe>

[Mr. Nerfect]

some people like shit as hollow as crappy Easter chocolate.

Miz is excellent at speaking words. The talking smack promo was the closest thing we've ever seen him do that could have created buzz and drawn money.

Gotta agree with you here, Dale. He's a great talker, not such a great promo. But I also don't think Braun has a great look, because he makes me laugh and looks like a giant Eugene or Kurrgan's baby-faced brother.

So much modern stuff is overrated when put into context. I think it's conditioning. You slide into modern stuff and sometimes don't even realize how piss-poor it is, because you've been rats to stay alive for so long.

[Mr. Nerfect]

https://statics.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/braun-1494961418-800.png

This man is not scary. I realize he has different hair now and looks *a bit* cooler, but he's still largely a giant goof that kind of moves like Bambi on ice.

[Lock Jaw]

SAY IT TO HIS FACE!!!!

[Bad News Gertner]

Not in the backyard.


While the WWE may have lost there touch with promos lately, athletes in the backyard are still cutting good ones.
Just check out CWBs promo before his latest match for your promo fix!


Enjoy.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZPTGA779tLo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media"></iframe>

That's what I'm talking about. Fuck the Miz, CWB is the GOAT.

[Mr. Nerfect]

SAY IT TO HIS FACE!!!!

I would, because he works for a publicly traded company and he'd probably apologize for offending me.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I am more afraid of the backyard guys, because they don't play by the rules, and if you attack one, you attack them all.

[DAMN iNATOR]

WHEN A WRESTLING COMPANY GETS COMPLACENT, BEGINS SCRIPTING PROMOS AND TAKES THE ABILITY TO SHOW PERSONALITY OUT OF THE WRESTLERS' HANDS AND PUTS IT INTO THE HANDS OF WRITERS WHO TREAT EVERYONE AS THE SAME PAINT-BY-NUMBERS CHARACTER...

THAT'S HARD TIMES! THAT'S HARD TIMES!

b8HllJaDQ4c

[Stickman]

Ortons are so bland. None of them are memorable.

Just like his matches, title reigns, and his career.

[Gerard]

EACH.................AND EVERY..........................ONE......................OF YOU


Must be some kind of fucking mandate from Vince to include that line as much as possible, been hearing it since the late 90's and it still gets used frequently. :fu:

[Fignuts]

because ya see...…..the fact of the matter is

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

When the dust settles

[Lock Jaw]

HERE'S THE THING

[Maluco]

Savage was my favourite growing up. He was larger than life and he was always amped up. He 100% sold the story and the emotion of the situation. He had promos in absolute despair about Liz, promos seething with anger and it was all believable.

Without kayfabe and performers really buying into their stories, promos will never be awesome. Miz on Talking Smack was no doubt planned, but he obviously tapped into the nerve of people underestimating his ability as a wrestler and putting him down for so many years. That's why it was great. Most of the time he is like everyone else, just going through the emotions. But he is witty and articulate, so it stands out. It still doesn't make a good promo imo

Also, coke helps a lot

[xrodmuc316]

Savage was my favourite growing up. He was larger than life and he was always amped up. He 100% sold the story and the emotion of the situation. He had promos in absolute despair about Liz, promos seething with anger and it was all believable.

Without kayfabe and performers really buying into their stories, promos will never be awesome. Miz on Talking Smack was no doubt planned, but he obviously tapped into the nerve of people underestimating his ability as a wrestler and putting him down for so many years. That's why it was great. Most of the time he is like everyone else, just going through the emotions. But he is witty and articulate, so it stands out. It still doesn't make a good promo imo

Also, coke helps a lot

If Miz isn't a good promo, them nobody is a good promo. I can understand the argument of Miz isn't as good as so and so, but to say he isn't a good promo is insane.

He sounds natural, shows emotion at the proper time, gets heat, talks them in, builds interest, gets other people over just by talking, and is as consistent as they come. He doesn't make his entire promo one long catchphrase (like Road Dogg), and he stays true to his character.

Actually maybe you are right, Miz isn't a good promo, he is a great promo.

[Maluco]

Go back and watch the very best Flair, Savage, Hogan promos. Even second tier guys like Piper, Roberts, Anderson. Promos back then sold the tickets. You wanted to see the match after listening to them.

I would love to hear times when people ordered a PPV in th past or got the network after hearing a Miz promo.

Guys like Austin, Angle, Jericho and even the much maligned JBL are tiers above Miz as a promo imo.

It's the nature of a poor product, uncreative writing and guys who haven't travelled and worked their craft in territories before coming to WWE. It is cookie cutter, and yeah, I would say there isn't a good full time promo guy in the company in 2018

[xrodmuc316]

Go back and watch the very best Flair, Savage, Hogan promos. Even second tier guys like Piper, Roberts, Anderson. Promos back then sold the tickets. You wanted to see the match after listening to them.

I would love to hear times when people ordered a PPV in th past or got the network after hearing a Miz promo.

Guys like Austin, Angle, Jericho and even the much maligned JBL are tiers above Miz as a promo imo.

It's the nature of a poor product, uncreative writing and guys who haven't travelled and worked their craft in territories before coming to WWE. It is cookie cutter, and yeah, I would say there isn't a good full time promo guy in the company in 2018

But that wasn't the point of your post. It's not who is better than Miz or not, it is a matter of is Miz a good Promo. I don't care where you rank him all time, all I said was he is a good promo. In terms of drawing, network subs, whatever, if you think Miz has no effect on that than nobody does, and it is just the brand.

[Maluco]

Just using those examples as you would in any other field. To add perspective when you suggest that he is a good promo. I understand why you think that and accept your opinion, but in my view, he is not a good promo in traditional terms.

The point of my post was, when you compare Miz with guys that are genuinely good promos, he falls short.

[Shisen Kopf]

This is the last time i post a troll thread.

[xrodmuc316]

Just using those examples as you would in any other field. To add perspective when you suggest that he is a good promo. I understand why you think that and accept your opinion, but in my view, he is not a good promo in traditional terms.

The point of my post was, when you compare Miz with guys that are genuinely good promos, he falls short.

I have been trying to defend my point for 2 pages now. I am not comparing him to anybody. Just that the guy can talk and it's interesting. Just because he isn't as good as Ric Flair or Randy Savage doesn't mean he is trash. If your preference is to say only the top of the top promo guys are good, that is fine. All I've been saying is I disagree with the logic that Miz is bad at promos cause he isn't as good as Steve Austin. That is the same as saying Dolph Ziggler is bad at wrestling cause he isn't as good as Bret Hart.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

interesting is a bit of a stretch when describing the Miz.

[Ruien]

My post didnt go through but a short version is lol at anyone who thinks Miz is not a great promo.

He is literally the only person in like 10 years to be able to constantly deliver great promos with all the script crap that happens. No one else has gone night in and night out destroying it like Miz.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol "destroying"

[Bad News Gertner]

He's miles ahead of anyone

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Oh he is. Just everyone stinks.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Joe is pretty good but still not great.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I have hope for McIntyre.

[xrodmuc316]

I have hope for McIntyre.

I said in one of the Raw threads a few weeks back, but the mood and feel of the show changes when he comes out. Call it the aura or whatever, but Drew feels like they could have him beat Brock tomorrow and nobody would disbelieve him as Universal Champion.

If I am booking WWE I have him ditch Ziggler soon and forget about Roman and Lashley and Braun and push him as the guy instead of waiting and waiting until he cools off.

[Destor]

He's miles ahead of anyone

"He's the smartest retard here"

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't even think Miz is the best promo in the company, because he doesn't make me believe what he's saying in the slightest. It feels like a Barnum spiel every time he talks, except I don't know what anyone is stepping up for. When was the last time he made you want to see a match, a show or buy into a person?