ROH to run Madison Square Garden - UPDATE - WWE gets show cancelled

[slik]

PWInsider is reporting that ROH will be running a show in Madison Square Garden in 2019.


Sinclair CEO Chris Ripley also discusses it in this link:

https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2018/06/12/sinclairs-ring-of-honor-to-hold-show-at-madison.html

[James Steele]

WWE doesn’t even run MSG for TV anymore, so it makes sense they’d start taking outside bookings.

[Evil Vito]

Can Cody Rhodes draw 10 people to Madison Square Garden?

[Destor]

makes me sad and happy. Very mixed.

[Bad News Gertner]

How on Earth are they going to break even with the cost of running a show there?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I guess if they sell out. Again, that largely hangs on how dedicated their fanbase is which I think is enough to sell out MSG... but it would literally have to be every ROH fan in the world lol.

[Bad News Gertner]

I I read somewhere that the WWE breaks even at best when they run MSG

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Then I guess it's a marketing expenditure. You may take a net loss (hopefully not too much) in hopes the branding leads to future gains.

[ClockShot]

Ring of Honor gotta have one hell of card if they're 100% dead set on doing this.

[Emperor Smeat]

How on Earth are they going to break even with the cost of running a show there?

Maybe MSG is charging less as a way to be appealing to more promotions after WWE pissed them off.

Either that or Sinclair is having a rare moment of not being penny pinching with ROH.

[Jordan]

Well I think that Sinclair may be using this venue as a way to legitimize ROH for future TV deals. If they could get a small portion of what WWE is getting then that would big big time. MSG makes you legit, I don't think they are running a show at MSG to "make a huge profit" so much as brand ROH as a big time company worthy of taking a look at.

[LibSuperstar]

Well I think that Sinclair may be using this venue as a way to legitimize ROH for future TV deals. If they could get a small portion of what WWE is getting then that would big big time. MSG makes you legit, I don't think they are running a show at MSG to "make a huge profit" so much as brand ROH as a big time company worthy of taking a look at.

Reasonable move! WWE doesn't run MSG often anymore b/c the high fees that are charged for production costs.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Well I think that Sinclair may be using this venue as a way to legitimize ROH for future TV deals. If they could get a small portion of what WWE is getting then that would big big time. MSG makes you legit, I don't think they are running a show at MSG to "make a huge profit" so much as brand ROH as a big time company worthy of taking a look at.

:rant: I said exactly this! :p

[Bad News Gertner]

That was a really good point by Jordan X

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You son of a bitch.

[slik]

Sinclair probably wants to sell ROH but wants them to look super profitable first.

Watch Disney nab ROH for some Friday/Saturday night spot on ESPN or CBS to do the same...

[Emperor Smeat]

Sinclair probably wants to sell ROH but wants them to look super profitable first.

Watch Disney nab ROH for some Friday/Saturday night spot on ESPN or CBS to do the same...

There were rumors last year of Sinclair considering the idea of selling off ROH but more due to the legal fallout from a purchase they were making elsewhere and some plans to change the direction of the network.

If they do sell ROH in the future, wouldn't be surprised if they ended up on Facebook or Amazon since both are currently very interested in wrestling.

[slik]

Good call @ smeat!

[slik]

Come to think of it Amazon or FB carrying All-In for a few bucks would be brilliant

[xrodmuc316]

WWE still will run house shows or TV there. They even will run a B level PPV there too.

MSG just isnt big enough for the top shows. Reports are that Vince wants at least Summerslam and Royal Rumble to be is stadiums going forward (yes SS is still in Barclay's this year, but the 5 year agreement is over after this summer).

MSG probably could still get a Survivor Series, as its not presented as big of a deal as Summerslam, and it doesnt have the starting Road To Wrestlemania hype to prop it up. Plus the Rumble itself is the most popular match of the year.

Regardless of trafition, I dont think WWE should just give in to events there.

AND because of tradition, I love it for ROH. It is a logical next step after All In. Following All In by saying "we sold out the Garden too" keeps momentum going.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with Jordan X.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I agree with Jordan X.

:rant:

[Bad News Gertner]

They are more than likely just running the Hulu Theater. There's no way they are going to run the actual MSG.

[Jordan]

:rant: I said exactly this! :p

:yes:

[Jordan]

They are more than likely just running the Hulu Theater. There's no way they are going to run the actual MSG.

I think that ROH can sell out or at least have a solid turn out at MSG on WM Weekend.

[xrodmuc316]

I think that ROH can sell out or at least have a solid turn out at MSG on WM Weekend.

I think they stack the card and it being the first time, that they could sell it out.

I however wouldn't be surprised if WWE bought like 15,000 tickets just so the perception is that it is hardly filled. Vince being Vince and all lol

[Bad News Gertner]

You'd have to sell it out as well as a ton of ppv to break even. There's no friggen way that's happening. I guarantee it's just the Hulu

[Jordan]

You'd have to sell it out as well as a ton of ppv to break even. There's no friggen way that's happening. I guarantee it's just the Hulu

If this was a break even move then I'd agree with you but I don't think this about about making a profit. I think it's about having a sold out show at MSG. They got 10,000 in Chicago in September without a card, do you think they can't do 6,000 more for WM Weekend?

[Bad News Gertner]

First of all, the Rangers and Knicks both play at MSG and their season is going on at the time, so I doubt they are getting a Saturday date at the Garden.

I don't think people get how astronically expensive it is to run a show there. Why would a business run a show where they stand to lose a shit ton of money? Just so they can say they ran MSG? Who cares?!?!? What kind of business sense is that.

[Bad News Gertner]

Like it's going to cost you at least a couple hundred thousand dollars just for rent. But the time you pay the wrestlers, sound people etc, you're probably close to $400-500 thousand dollars in the hole before you even sell 1 ticket.

[Jordan]

Sinclair has a lot of money, ROH isn’t TNA. I thin Sinclair has been biding their time to consider pumping more gas into the ROH engine and are now realizing they potential earnings if ROH is considered a promotion in the likes of WWE. I think that selling out MSG during WM week would be a huge public relations boost for the company and put it on the media radar in a way they could’ve NEVER imagined. There will be nearly 100,000 fans in NYC that week, ROH or “ALL IN 2” could easily get a solid gate at The Garden. And I think you’re right it should cost around 200,000 grand or a bit less to run the show and stream it from MSG.

[Triple A]

via Meltzer: https://www.f4wonline.com/daily-updates/daily-update-new-day-vs-elite-roh-msg-wwe-2k-259601

Lots going on behind-the-scenes on the ROH running Madison Square Garden story. WWE is doing everything possible to block it, and it is possible they will succeed in that goal. A behind-the-scenes game is going on and it's too early to know for sure how it will turn out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

First of all, the Rangers and Knicks both play at MSG and their season is going on at the time, so I doubt they are getting a Saturday date at the Garden.

I don't think people get how astronically expensive it is to run a show there. Why would a business run a show where they stand to lose a shit ton of money? Just so they can say they ran MSG? Who cares?!?!? What kind of business sense is that.

It's just that prestige. They're running in the WWE's venue and the most famous arena in the world. I don't think you're wrong about it lacking business sense. Especially considering Sinclair have never really seemed to want to go "all in" with ROH. I wonder if some of the costs are going to be split with New Japan and/or CMLL or whoever else ROH has a friendly relationship with.

[Droford]

ROH wants to go head to head with the Mania Takeover

Thats probably the only way they can sell out MSG is if they do it when 100,000+ wrestling nerds converge on NY/NJ for Mania.

[slik]

r u going to WM since it's 'in your hood' again @Droford?

[Jordan]

It's my hood too! I'll be taking the week off and vacationing in my city that week.

[Droford]

r u going to WM since it's 'in your hood' again @Droford?

I will have to see, but I Want to

PROPER TPWW MEETUP!

[Jordan]

I think I may actually get WM Tickets through the F4Online group if they can get a deal for everyone. If ROH runs MSG, I will go to that for sure. Gonna skip HOF, try and go for Take Over and whatever show Matt Riddle is on and if some great NJPW stars come in I'll go for those as well. I will probably skip any pod cast shows because I can imagine that being anti-climatic compared to the crazy events that will go down.

[Droford]

Takeover and ROH same night but shouldnt be

ROH should be opposite the HOF

Id have a hard time choosing Takeover over ROH at MSG since Ive never been to MSG

[James Steele]

WWE still will run house shows or TV there. They even will run a B level PPV there too.

MSG just isnt big enough for the top shows. Reports are that Vince wants at least Summerslam and Royal Rumble to be is stadiums going forward (yes SS is still in Barclay's this year, but the 5 year agreement is over after this summer).

MSG probably could still get a Survivor Series, as its not presented as big of a deal as Summerslam, and it doesnt have the starting Road To Wrestlemania hype to prop it up. Plus the Rumble itself is the most popular match of the year.

Regardless of trafition, I dont think WWE should just give in to events there.

AND because of tradition, I love it for ROH. It is a logical next step after All In. Following All In by saying "we sold out the Garden too" keeps momentum going.

When is the last time RAW, SD!, or a PPV was in MSG instead of the Barclays Center? The last TV event there was either that one live WWE special a few years ago or the WWE HOF induction ceremony. The last WWE PPV there was Survivor a series 2011 and the last RAW was in November 2009 when Kofi did the boom drop in the stands onto Randy Orton. We’re almost a decade without MSG.

[Bad News Gertner]

I doubt they are getting a Saturday date with the Knicks and Rangers still playing then. That's a major reason why I think it'll be the Hulu Theater. Seats about 5000.

[Bad News Gertner]

It's just that prestige. They're running in the WWE's venue and the most famous arena in the world. I don't think you're wrong about it lacking business sense. Especially considering Sinclair have never really seemed to want to go "all in" with ROH. I wonder if some of the costs are going to be split with New Japan and/or CMLL or whoever else ROH has a friendly relationship with.

But what does prestige get you? Nobody will care a month after that ROH ran MSG.

[Mr. Nerfect]

But what does prestige get you? Nobody will care a month after that ROH ran MSG.

I think they hope that it will get them coverage in New York as the "new" and "trendy" wrestling project that is playing MSG for the fan that loves tradition and whatnot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Everything you're saying is strictly true, but I think there's something to the story. The charm of an underdog or whatever.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But what does prestige get you? Nobody will care a month after that ROH ran MSG.

Yeah, I don't know if it'd work but I still think it's the intent.

[Emperor Smeat]

Could see them parlay this into a major yearly event similar in status to their Mania weekend event but all depends how successful this event is or if they can even hold one due to WWE's pettiness.

[Jordan]

WWE is so fucking petty. Now that have an unlimited bank account and I don't want anyone to take the bait. I mean, money is money so I get it. But this environment makes me love the artist who doesn't want to be dictated in his craft.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Could see them parlay this into a major yearly event similar in status to their Mania weekend event but all depends how successful this event is or if they can even hold one due to WWE's pettiness.

Doing it every year seems a bit...much. It's a gimmick that they could keep in their bag of tricks to think about in a few years time, but the show is just going to cost so much money that I don't know if they'd want to do it all the time. I see them trying to do one show, hope that makes people go "ROH, ROH, ROH is a thing, check out ROH" and then that's it.

But because New Japan is going to start working with WWE, that New Japan/ROH is going to be dissolved pretty fast beyond the talent that actually have ROH contracts, so they won't lock the Garden. ;)

[Mr. Nerfect]

If I were Vince, I would not give a fuck who runs the Garden at this point. There's a reason he stopped running there. He's trying to block for the same reason that ROH is trying to get in there -- prestige and history that isn't really going to amount to anything other than symbolism. But Vince trying to block actually lends credence to it being a "blow" to him, when it's really just a company spending an obscene amount of money to run an arena he outgrew.

[Bad News Gertner]

So I asked Seth what the WWE gets charged to run an event at MSG and he said around $250,000. That's a lot of friggen money.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Is that with the broadcasting fee on top of it?

[Bad News Gertner]

I believe it's just for rent.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

So I asked Seth what the WWE gets charged to run an event at MSG and he said around $250,000. That's a lot of friggen money.

weeeew lord. Probably never make anything there.

[slik]

The Sinclair CEO has confirmed WWE blocked them from doing the show...super petty of WWE but not surprising.

[Big Vic]

The Sinclair CEO has confirmed WWE blocked them from doing the show...super petty of WWE but not surprising.

Damn.

I think Jordan Xs idea still sorta worked though, a bit of exposure, free advertising.

[Evil Vito]

Fuck you Vince

[erickman]

wonder if AAA will still do there show in september

[Bad News Gertner]

Hahaha

[Jordan]

Damn Gertner was right.

[Bad News Gertner]

I'm almost thinking that they did this to get some good publicity. That's how unlikely this show was happening.

[Emperor Smeat]

I'm almost thinking that they did this to get some good publicity. That's how unlikely this show was happening.

Probably. Once WWE got wind of not one but two companies trying to run at MSG, was only a matter of time before they got involved personally. WWE gets all the bad press for causing ROH to cancel their MSG plans while ROH gets free sympathy in return.

Post Wrestling's John Pollock mentioned ROH does need a bigger venue for next year's Supercard of Honor show since the event has outgrown what the Hammerstein Ballroom can hold as their NY home.

[Jordan]

They should still book a major venue during WM Week. There aren't a ton of options that I can think of in the city they'd have to go to Jersey for a big venue.

[Simple Fan]

Nassau Coliseum is still standing isn't it?

[Seth82]

surprise surprise. vince does a vince thing.

[dronepool]

WWE fears ROH and New Japan, fuck them for doing this. Afraid that tons of people can get a chance to see a more talent based product?

[Bad News Gertner]

This has been going on forever and ever. The WWF and NWA used to do this to each other alllllllll the time.

[Emperor Smeat]

According to the Observer and PWI, ROH's parent company Sinclair is considering filing a lawsuit against the WWE for causing their MSG show to be canceled. Also reported it wasn't Vince who made the decision to get this event canned.

ROH COO Joe Koff, in an interview with Mike Johnson, said, “I’m not going to discuss beyond this statement because I am not going to litigate this in the press. We had a deal with the Garden and they then told us they were backing out after communications from the WWE. We are not able to get any other dates in any kind of discussion. I’m expecting that our lawyers will be contacting all the parties involved and the best we can hope for is that we can find resolution, and we can bring the kind of energy and excitement that ROH and our partner New Japan brings to a bigger audience and to bigger arenas to the fans of New York City.”

After Chris Ripley, the CEO of Sinclair Broadcasting on 6/12 first publicly announced an ROH show in MSG (the date itself was first reported here), WWE immediately went to work, although one source said it only took one call from a high ranking WWE official, and not from Vince McMahon, and Madison Square Garden contacted ROH and pulled the date. We were told last week by sources close to the situation that it could and probably would turn into an ugly legal fight.

The story is that they had an agreement on the date but the contract for the date had not been signed. ROH by late last week was contacting other arenas in the New York metropolitan area to run that night, but we were also told Sinclair was furious and legal proceedings could take place and were being explored.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Of course it wasn't Vince. What attention is he paying to ROH?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm almost thinking that they did this to get some good publicity. That's how unlikely this show was happening.

I was thinking the same thing. Get the attention for wanting to do a show there without actually having to pay for one. That being said, all the babyface attention goes out the window when you throw your toys out of the pram and start talking about lawsuits because you don't get to do a thing you thought of.

[slik]

I think the NJPW/ROH show at the Garden before WM will sell out

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

It's possible. Everybody is going to be there anyways. Supercard of Honor usually sells out but at a much smaller venue around where Mania takes place. They usually do the show on the same day NXT TakeOver is booked now. I'm interested in going since it's only relatively quick bus trip. I'd probably still see NXT anyways.