Farewell to Asuka's Career

[xrodmuc316]

She is basically Becky and Naomi now, a good entrance by a dumb babyface that takes losses.

Her NXT run meant nothing, especially since the 2 woman's champions currently were managers of tag teams in NXT while Asuka was winning matches.

Women's revolution sure still looks like Vince pushing cute blondes to me.

[Destor]

What do you mean her run meant nothing?

[xrodmuc316]

What do you mean her run meant nothing?

They spent years building her up to put over the already most over female on the roster. Now she is losing to a girl that was only a manager in NXT. Asuka was supposedly so great in NXT during that time, but it turns out its just cause she never had to fight a hair dresser turned manager of a tag team that never won any titles...

[Bad News Gertner]

She can't stay undefeated forever.

[xrodmuc316]

She can't stay undefeated forever.

No, nor should she. But she gave up the NXT title without losing it, to keep the undefeated streak.

Storyline wise she choose to sign with Raw, makes no sense she would suddenly choose Smackdown just because of Charlotte.

They hyped the Women's Rumble hard, to the point it closed the show. Not having the payoff of the Rumble winner complete that story by becoming champ is a waste.

They planted seeds for her to be the one to give Alexa her comeuppance and be the undefeated champion.

This would lead to a championship match where she would lose the title and the streak, and they have their next breakout woman.

They threw all that away for what?

What did Charlotte gain by winning? It wouldn't have hurt to have her lose.

Are they building to a women's main event match at Mania 35 of Charlotte and Ronda?

If that is the plan, have Ronda beat Asuka and end her streak.

Then there is Carmella, they had her cash in and beat Charlotte after Charlotte got beat up by 2 chicks Asuka destroyed for a year straight.

Now that Carmella has been good, you don't want to pull the plug on her too early, so again, Asuka eats another loss and doesn't become champion again.

Charlotte could have defended successfully at Mania against anybody else, Iconics could have debuted the same way 2 days later, Carmella could then have cashed in the same way, and we could be exactly where we are on Smackdown without throwing away Asuka's credibility.

Then there is the Raw side, which is worse.

WWE decided what the hell, let's give bully Nia a sudden face turn because she can be a fat advocate for Be A Star, even though she sucks.

That lasts a month and a half, and OF COURSE that doesn't work, so WWE sacrifices another chance at building up a new star by having say Ember Moon win MITB, and the MITB match itself, just so they can reset everything back to where it was, meaning Alexa Bliss is champion again.

I love Alexa Bliss, and she is a good bail out for the shitshow they booked themselves in to.

On Raw, Asuka could be the undefeated champ with the slow build to say a Survivor Series match where Ronda could take the title and the streak, and with it being the first big 4 PPV after Brock leaves, WWE would still have that big fight feel match.

They essentially gave that all up cause they thought Nia Jax was good.

Ending the streak isn't the problem by itself, just a byproduct of horrible shortsighted booking.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, it was all very confusing. I'm interested to see where they go with Asuka now. Maybe there's a heel turn in the works, but they might think that's a bit too much like Shinsuke. I don't think she's completely dead, but she's certainly lost her aura. That's not to say she can't get something back, but yeah, she'll probably be in a Halloween Dance Contest with Naomi by October.

[Savio]

Not sure who really got over with run, Flair? No. Asuka? No.....Carmella?

[xrodmuc316]

Not sure who really got over with run, Flair? No. Asuka? No.....Carmella?

Carmella, it didnt hurt Charlotte. It certainly didnt get the Iconics over, and Asuka I dont think ever gets it back. Sure, she can just be another female on the roster, might even get a turn or 2 with a title, but thats the point. She was built to be more than just another female on the roster.

[Black Widow]

Carmella is actually entertaining and one sentence asian isn't.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I get the theory of where you're coming from, xrodmuc316, but I'd contend that any of this means anything anyway. I was always down on Asuka coming up because she would only have the women on the main roster to work with in the way that they work. She got to have a great match at Mania and she looked really good in the highlights I saw of MITB. Well, until that bullshit racist finish with the dude that by all logic shouldn't be on the roster.

Asuka's just another player, but it was always going to be that way, and it is going to be that way for anyone else that comes in or comes up.

[xrodmuc316]

I get the theory of where you're coming from, xrodmuc316, but I'd contend that any of this means anything anyway. I was always down on Asuka coming up because she would only have the women on the main roster to work with in the way that they work. She got to have a great match at Mania and she looked really good in the highlights I saw of MITB. Well, until that bullshit racist finish with the dude that by all logic shouldn't be on the roster.

Asuka's just another player, but it was always going to be that way, and it is going to be that way for anyone else that comes in or comes up.

That is the problem too, unless anyone is going to be more than just another player, then they shouldnt come up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

But that's literally everybody now. They've even managed to have Brock beat up so many unspecial people that he doesn't feel special now. John Cena doesn't even feel special. They're doing their best to make Ronda just part of the scenery and daily grind. I completely agree with you philosophically, but who actually feels like more than just another dude or just another chick?

[xrodmuc316]

But that's literally everybody now. They've even managed to have Brock beat up so many unspecial people that he doesn't feel special now. John Cena doesn't even feel special. They're doing their best to make Ronda just part of the scenery and daily grind. I completely agree with you philosophically, but who actually feels like more than just another dude or just another chick?

You are right. I made a post in the Takeover thread that 3 years ago Aleister Black would have felt really special. Now though I can't really get behind him as a star because I know WWE will blow it once he does get called up.

Nobody in NXT feels like a breakout star, not because they aren't good, but because we know the end game is they won't be a star on the main roster anyways.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, my head does this weird thing like "Oh shit, you can build around this," but then have to remind myself that they don't do that and they're better off in NXT, but then NXT feels smaller than WWE so it's this endless cycle of a false promise.

[xrodmuc316]

Yeah, my head does this weird thing like "Oh shit, you can build around this," but then have to remind myself that they don't do that and they're better off in NXT, but then NXT feels smaller than WWE so it's this endless cycle of a false promise.

I remember Finn as NXT Champ making the point that part of him didn't want to get called up, because they had something special going in NXT.

Turns out he was right. He got a solid month when he got called up, regrettably was injured, and hasn't been given anything good for the 15 months since he returned minus one night vs AJ.

It's shameful

[#1-norm-fan]

Not just Asuka losing but the way she lost was fucking stupid. And I'm not even talking about the Ellsworth distraction.

Ellsworth causing a DQ at least keeps Asuka looking strong and gets Carmella over as a conniving heel.

Carmella winning via roll-up off the distraction would have at least been SOMETHING. Still makes Asuka look beatable but the "caught of guard" excuse lets her keep a SLIVER of credibility.

What good does having her knock Asuka out with her finisher do? It kills what credibility Asuka had left all to... put over Carmella's finisher I guess? She's a cocky, "cheap win" bitch of a heel. Why are they making sure to have her win somewhat clean at the expense of people whose credibility actually IS dependent on looking strong in the ring? It's beyond stupid.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE has never understood how the babyface being stupid hurts both the babyface and does nothing for the heel.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Every babyface is interchangeable with every other babyface, and every heel is interchangeable with every other heel. Carmella could have been Ruby Riott and Asuka could have been Charlotte. One month it surely will be. It really doesn't matter. And WWE exists in a fantasy world where everyone's as credible as anyone else on any other night. In WWE canon, Carmella is a fucking ninja, man. When she hits that magic finisher, you're done. Especially when you let your guard down during a fight because you hear someone's music or see someone approaching the outside of the ring.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ronda Rousey will sell for Alexa Bliss.

[xrodmuc316]

Asuka is done, she won't even have a match at Summerslam. Time to retire

[slik]

RIP!

[Emperor Smeat]

https://i.imgur.com/R6IR6na.gif

[Sixx]

All I can say is she looks retarded.

[Rammsteinmad]

I never cared about her or any of the divas anyway. This revolution is all a sham and they're all still interchangeable in a heartbeat.

[xrodmuc316]

I never cared about her or any of the divas anyway. This revolution is all a sham and they're all still interchangeable in a heartbeat.

Considering they just jobbed out clean their last NXT champion to a first round loser from the Mae Young Classic makes your point precisely.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I hate the WWE's convention of having dumb babyfaces who stand around with their backs to their opponents and forget the awareness of being in a fight. The finish to Asuka/Carmella at Extreme Rules was awful, and I feel a rant coming on.

First of all, Carmella is not very good. I'm sure she works hard, but booking her to win the Money in the Bank was short-sighted. She was never going to be ready within that time frame. Not only that, but that's a symptom of not booking the women around their strengths and weaknesses instead of obtusely jamming them into shadows of the boys' programs. The first-ever women's Ladder Match could have been a huge deal between two rivals that had drawn you into their program. They should have been looking more to Razor/Shawn for that inspiration, and found talent that could pull off the ladder gimmick, as opposed to having the ladder gimmick and hoping women could pull it off. These gimmicks are already watered down because of how routinely and arbitrarily they're attached to the calendar, and now you want to duplicate them further to diminishing returns? Any novelty it has being the women doing it plays counterpoint to the philosophy you are trying to present that they are not afterthoughts. The WWE's women's movement has been awfully handled.

Secondly, you could be making people give a shit about women's wrestling as best they could by putting the best female workers into positions where they get to carry the belt. Asuka and Charlotte had one of the best women's matches in the company's recent history at WrestleMania. That should be on their radar again, because there is genuine interest in seeing them wrestle again. Carmella throws an unnecessary wrench into those plans. The Divas they call up throw wrenches into the build-up and the clarity of that program. You're over-complicating what could be a real simple story between two women with something to prove against each other.

They want Carmella to be a star. I get it. But when you jam women that can't work into these positions, they lose the people and then the overall interest in the division is down. They are desperately looking for the next Trish Stratus, but what they forget is that Trish was kind of special in how and when she came along. Right now you've got other forms of special -- Charlotte is that prototypical star they look for; Asuka is a fantastic worker; Ronda Rousey is a genuine star with potential to actually draw money in the right environment; Becky Lynch is over with audiences; Shayna is coming along nicely as a heel; people do genuinely care about Sasha and Bayley still. Pull your fucking heads in and get that focus right. Maybe that next Trish Stratus will come along, but you can't just wave a magic wand over someone that isn't magic and make them that way.

And what does that goddamn booking accomplish? Does anyone really believe, even in WWE's own canon, that Carmella is better than Asuka? No. Commentary went as far as to tell people that "Asuka had this match won." Does Carmella look good beating Asuka? Of course not -- "Asuka had this match won." The heel isn't good at what they do, and the babyface just lost to them. They did this with Jinder Mahal, and they've done it so often in the past. How can anyone be surprised when neither the heels nor the babyfaces are over?

Someone needs to take that finish and throw it out. No more dumb-ass babyface gets distracted and the heel scoots through the keep spinning wheels. No more of that filler. No more of that snake eating its own tail booking. That is just thrown out until you can do it in maybe three years time and it might make people genuinely upset that the babyface got "screwed." But you don't need it. If Carmella is supposed to be the champion and the best wrestler on SmackDown, then she should be able to beat Asuka. If that sounds ludicrous to you, then it's probably time to rethink your choice of her as champion.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Considering they just jobbed out clean their last NXT champion to a first round loser from the Mae Young Classic makes your point precisely.

No it doesn't. Kayfabe-wise (which it seems is how you are viewing it here), every woman selected for the Mae Young Classic was a top tier athlete. Any of them could have been capable of winning the tournament, or they would not have been placed in it. It should be no embarrassment to lose to any of those women, even if you're a former NXT champion.

[xrodmuc316]

No it doesn't. Kayfabe-wise (which it seems is how you are viewing it here), every woman selected for the Mae Young Classic was a top tier athlete. Any of them could have been capable of winning the tournament, or they would not have been placed in it. It should be no embarrassment to lose to any of those women, even if you're a former NXT champion.

It's not viewing it as kayfabe, it's viewing it as logical.

Sarah Logan is not better than Ember Moon, she never will be, and it is one of the few times I can say no argument will change my mind.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Not even a kayfabe argument?

[Anybody Thrilla]

You don't have to be "better" than someone to win a match. Especially with outside interference/etc.

[LibSuperstar]

You don't have to be "better" than someone to win a match. Especially with outside interference/etc.

You might even say it's a plot device.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Wouldn't that be novel.

[#1-norm-fan]

No it doesn't. Kayfabe-wise (which it seems is how you are viewing it here), every woman selected for the Mae Young Classic was a top tier athlete. Any of them could have been capable of winning the tournament, or they would not have been placed in it. It should be no embarrassment to lose to any of those women, even if you're a former NXT champion.

If all 32 of the women in that tournament were capable of winning it, then that's not a good thing. Parity in wrestling is never good.

[#1-norm-fan]

Why is it at all meaningful to win a tournament if anyone could have won it?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why would you invite them to the tournament if they weren't CAPABLE of winning it? Of course there were favorites, but you're not just throwing in a bunch of slubs.

[Anybody Thrilla]

16 seeds USUALLY don't beat 1 seeds, but they CAN.

[#1-norm-fan]

Why is Curt Hawkins employed by WWE? Presumably because you need to fill out spots.

If all you're saying is "upsets could have happened", sure. It sounded like you were saying all 32 were neck and neck skill-wise and anyone could have beaten anyone because of it. Which would be bad.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Well, for that particular tournament, it was a little different. That tournament was supposed to be showcasing the best that they could find in the world. They were scouring the globe for these contestants. If a WWE title tournament or something started right now, even kayfabe wise, Curt Hawkins should not be in it. Sarah Logan, however, deserved to be in the Mae Young Classic. If that makes sense.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why the fuck was Mr. Hughes in the first King of the Ring tournament?

So to speak

[Evil Vito]

Poor Curt Hawkins. 200+ match losing streak and counting and I'm almost willing to bet that he's released before he's ever given any sort of payoff.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Poor Curt Hawkins. 200+ match losing streak and counting and I'm almost willing to bet that he's released before he's ever given any sort of payoff.

I'm afraid Baron Corbin's taco party destruction was his payoff.

[Evil Vito]

lol :( you might be right

[Evil Vito]

I can't help but be a mark for the guy. He's a really cool dude. Never complains. Seems to have totally embraced the gimmick and is more than happy to get a decent paycheck to travel and get squashed constantly vs. the indy grind. Plus he's got a wrestling school on the side and a hot wife. Not a bad gig at all.

Also I can't help but root for a fellow long-suffering Mets fan. The irony of a Mets fan losing all the time is not lost on me.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I like him too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If all 32 of the women in that tournament were capable of winning it, then that's not a good thing. Parity in wrestling is never good.

:y:

Why is Curt Hawkins employed by WWE? Presumably because you need to fill out spots.

If all you're saying is "upsets could have happened", sure. It sounded like you were saying all 32 were neck and neck skill-wise and anyone could have beaten anyone because of it. Which would be bad.

:y:

I sometimes wonder about the Hawkins thing myself.

I can't help but be a mark for the guy. He's a really cool dude. Never complains. Seems to have totally embraced the gimmick and is more than happy to get a decent paycheck to travel and get squashed constantly vs. the indy grind. Plus he's got a wrestling school on the side and a hot wife. Not a bad gig at all.

Also I can't help but root for a fellow long-suffering Mets fan. The irony of a Mets fan losing all the time is not lost on me.

I like him more than Zack Ryder. I enjoyed him with Tyler Reks, but I just don't give a fuck about him on any meaningful level in 2018. He's so cursory. It's that ironic wrestling "look how over he's getting because he sucks" (in kayfabe) stuff. I don't see why you'd want to feature him over anyone else that is more interesting.

Good for him getting his job back though.

[Helmsphere]

:y:



:y:

I sometimes wonder about the Hawkins thing myself.



I like him more than Zack Ryder. I enjoyed him with Tyler Reks, but I just don't give a fuck about him on any meaningful level in 2018. He's so cursory. It's that ironic wrestling "look how over he's getting because he sucks" (in kayfabe) stuff. I don't see why you'd want to feature him over anyone else that is more interesting.

Good for him getting his job back though.

Noid, I love you but I don't think you have a right to complain about Curt Hawkins when you were wetdreaming about Val Venis v. Doug Basham Ironman matches

[Swiss Ultimate]

What about the fact that women's wrestling is awful?

[DAMN iNATOR]

What about the fact that women's wrestling is awful?

It's somewhat better than ca. 5 years ago. I know that's not saying much but it's way more watchable than before, especially NXT and last year's and most likely this year's Mae Young Classic tournaments. I highly recommend last year's if you can find a way to watch it in full without forking over $10/mo. for WWE Network (assuming you haven't already seen it), definitely give it a watch.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Noid, I love you but I don't think you have a right to complain about Curt Hawkins when you were wetdreaming about Val Venis v. Doug Basham Ironman matches

People grow and change, Helmy.

[Gerard]

What about the fact that women's wrestling is awful?


Not a fan of it either, seeing 120lb women bouncing off the ropes with the ropes barely moving just looks funny. :rant:

[Mr. Nerfect]

The women try to work like guys, and the booking follows the booking of the men. They're becoming gentrified in a way that doesn't suit them.

[Fignuts]

Had an idea for asuka the other day. A way to get some of that aura back. Now that Becky is apparently next up for Carmella, put asuka back with Charlotte. Build it around asuka being affected all this time by the loss. Unable to fully focus on the matches she's been in, because all she can think about is getting her win back. Maybe even turn asuka heel and add more heat than their original build. Would help explain her current slump and lead to another fine match with Charlotte.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm fine with Asuka/Charlotte II, but they should just make it for the belt. Have your best two women fighting over it. Makes sense.

[xrodmuc316]

Asuka is done, she won't even have a match at Summerslam. Time to retire

Today is Summerslam, and just like I said, Asuka is nowhere in the card. In fact she has only been on tv once since then, standing on the stage clapping when WWE announced Evolution.

She is DONE. WWE should job her out to Michelle McCool at Evolution and then give her a one way ticket back to Japan.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They'll microwave her every now and then.

[Fignuts]

The fact that they're apparently aware that their booking of Asuka has been shit, gives me a little hope they'll turn it around. Usually they have no idea that they're awful.

[Swiss Ultimate]

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[Droford]

Asuka wasn't ready for Asuka

[Mr. Nerfect]

What did people honestly think would be the case with her? I'm curious as to what people thought would actually happen when Asuka got into the ring with, say, Alexa Bliss or Carmella.

[Tom Guycott]

They thought WWE would make a little more sense and give all the talent they hired for a wrestling promotion that can actually wrestle a little more promenence above the supposed eye candy and publicity stunts... and sorry, but that is essentially what Rousey is, no matter how much she is actually taking to it. If she were just a girl who came into the business organically (no MMA), and made an okay showing of herself in a previous Mae Young Classic enough to get a contract, she'd be in a similar boat as Asuka now.

With proper booking and flame stoking, people would be salivating for the showdown that should have happened in NXT between Ember Moon and Asuka. That Bayley heel turn that was a long time coming... got scrapped LOL so her and Sasha can potentially be the first ever women's tag champs. Yayyyy. So they're back to being kinda generic and just there. Asuka jobbing to Charlotte just to feed Charlotte to... Carmella? You have the wrestling 4 Horsewomen, potentially 3 of the 4 MMA Horsewomen, Nattie Neidhart, etc., etc., and you decide Carmella is enough to hold up a division? Really?

The same company that tries their damnedest to diminish the idea of "smaller" guys as being championship material, slaps a women's belt on one of the tiniest waifs they have in Alexa Bliss. There is absolutely zero reason why Brie Bella needs to do anything involved in a wrestling ring, and her sister is so much worse.

It's like they're trying to supposedly dissolve this pereption of women's wrestling being un-entertaining and worthless while doubling down on the trope at the same time by trotting out the less talented broads, jobbing out the decent workers to oblivion, and trying to tie in TOTAL DIVAS/BELLAS whatever side show ... uh... sideshow instead of showcasing the girls who can wrestle and letting them wrestle. What a concept, huh?

[Tom Guycott]

If that wasn't in the cards, why even hire Kana? Why bother? They could have just kept Eva Marie on the Roman Reigns path to be women's champion until she eventually inevetably Droz'd some chick, then Vince could have shrugged his shoulders and said "See, people with vaginas shouldn't do this dangerous shit!" and shuttered the women's division in one go.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It was obvious that they weren't going to scorch the earth of all the horrible diva stuff in 2015 when they emphasized The Bellas. Then in 2016 when they put the belt on Alexa Bliss. And then in 2017 when they buried Bayley. And then in 2018...

I don't understand where this idea that they were going to actually change anything comes from.

[Simple Fan]

Keep hearing about this 4 Horsewomen thing but WWE should hold off until they bring Tessa Blanchard in. Any incarnation without her just won't feel right.

[Big Vic]

Asuka should have been handled better but they shouldn't have given an undeafeted streak to a person who can't speak English so well (IMO).

[Destor]

What did people honestly think would be the case with her? I'm curious as to what people thought would actually happen when Asuka got into the ring with, say, Alexa Bliss or Carmella.

They thought she would retire undefeated

[Destor]

Asuka should have been handled better but they shouldn't have given an undeafeted streak to a person who can't speak English so well (IMO).

Undefeated streaks are best used on baby faces who cant talk. The are second best used on heels who cant talk.

[Simple Fan]

Never was that into Asuka. I believe NXT overhypes alot of these women.

[Big Vic]

Undefeated streaks are best used on baby faces who cant talk. The are second best used on heels who cant talk.

Can't talk or can't speak? Goldberg wasn't a great talker but you could understand him.

[Destor]

He said two words.

[Destor]

:roll:

[Big Vic]

Which I understood clearly.

[Big Vic]

All jokes aside he could speak

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[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't think a wrestler should have to speak to get over. It's a bullshit WWE-ism. Give her a manager. Or just build mystique around her. Not everything has to "fit the mould".

Your wrestling opinions suck, Big Vic. #FightMe

[Innovator]

EVERYONE MUST CUT 15 MINUTE OPENING SHOW PROMOS

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

EVERYONE MUST CUT 15 MINUTE OPENING SHOW PROMOS

easily the worst thing that ever happened to wrestling.

[Big Vic]

I don't think a wrestler should have to speak to get over. It's a bullshit WWE-ism. Give her a manager. Or just build mystique around her. Not everything has to "fit the mould".

Your wrestling opinions suck, Big Vic. #FightMe
I'd be perfectly fine if they just gave her a manager. They didn't though.

I don't think her not speaking at all could last very long but it would have been better than what they did.

[#1-norm-fan]

Never was that into Asuka. I believe NXT overhypes alot of these women.

It's more the botching of the character that they built up than the botching of Asuka herself that is ridiculous. I don't find Asuka the performer to be miles ahead of everyone else. But they did a good job of building her up as unstoppable. And then just shat it all away in a manner where it almost takes a special talent to botch a push that badly. It's not the fact that she lost a match (though that's the easy WWE apologist strawman). It's the fact that she went from an unstoppable beast to a joke of a jobber in an instant.

[#1-norm-fan]

And yeah, not everyone needs to speak to get over. Especially if their booked as an ass kicker and they happen to not speak English very well. Just let them kick ass and not speak.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I've watched one Asuka match since her call up, which was the match with Charlotte at Mania. I watched a number of her matches in nxt, mostly the Takeover stuff. The way she was presented was night and day.

Nxt Asuka was an unstoppable monster, like a villain in a horror film. Doesn't matter what you throw at her, she keeps getting up and eventually you are destroyed.

WrestleMania Asuka looked like she was the equal to Charlotte. It didn't seem like Charlotte had to nearly kill herself to beat Asuka. They wrestled like they were peers.

To me, that's the death knell. Whatever made Asuka special on nxt was lost simply by how they booked her matches. If and when she loses, it should be because the other person essentially had to try and kill her. They don't seem to be doing that. Hence she fails.

[Shisen Kopf]

Jist make her a female Funaki

[GD]

I understand that not everyone can make it big on the main roster but for the love of god, you had her win the first ever women’s royal rumble and kept her winning streak intact although she had lost a battle royal and tag bouts before. Having her lose to Charlotte was one thing but to have her lose to The Iiconics and Carmella has certainly ruined her perception. Is it too late? I don’t think so. There is still time to rehab her and make her great again :shifty:

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Martial Artsuka managed by Kung Funaki

[GD]

I am slowly becoming resentful of Charlotte. She’s getting into Roman Reigns territory. Her feud with Sasha, Bayley, Asuka, and now Becky. All of the women she’s faced are viewed as “damaged goods” now. What’s next? Making Ronda Rousey tap out at a future event? Breaking Daddy Flair’s record? Having puppies the size of her face?

[Fignuts]

Charlotte is arguably better than all of them with the exception of asuka.Maybe Becky if you're looking at her nxt work, but Charlotte has been far superior in the ring and on the mic on the main roster. That could change, as I believe Becky's in ring style doesn't translate well to how wwe typically wants their faces to perform. I think if they give her a bit more freedom to use her technical skills and torture people with her submissions she could go back to having the quality of matches she did in nxt.

But I'm getting off track. Charlotte gets these opportunities because she deserves them she's literally top 2 in the company for female talent. And its unfair to put the decline of Sasha, bayley, and Becky on Charlotte because that's on creative, not her.

[Fignuts]

Guru Dave is not fair to Flair.

[owenbrown]

Charlotte is arguably better than all of them with the exception of asuka.Maybe Becky if you're looking at her nxt work, but Charlotte has been far superior in the ring and on the mic on the main roster. That could change, as I believe Becky's in ring style doesn't translate well to how wwe typically wants their faces to perform. I think if they give her a bit more freedom to use her technical skills and torture people with her submissions she could go back to having the quality of matches she did in nxt.

But I'm getting off track. Charlotte gets these opportunities because she deserves them she's literally top 2 in the company for female talent. And its unfair to put the decline of Sasha, bayley, and Becky on Charlotte because that's on creative, not her.

Apparently she has a great top 2 according to Vinnie Mac :shifty:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Charlotte is 100 percent being fucked over by creative. She fucking jobbed clean to that gobshite Carmella for Christ's sake.

[johnsmagic]

Only thing that could possible save her now, she goes on to win the royal rumble next year she Challenges Rhonda and wins the title at Mania

[xrodmuc316]

They built the girl for 3 years, to job her to Charlotte and Carmella and after 3 months she had such low credibility that she had less time devoted to the Summerslam build in the woman's division than R-Truth.

Don't believe me, go watch every Smackdown leading up to Summerslam.

That is about the farthest fall from grace and biggest depush in wrestling history.

[Tom Guycott]

Keep hearing about this 4 Horsewomen thing but WWE should hold off until they bring Tessa Blanchard in. Any incarnation without her just won't feel right.

Kind of a different beast, though. They weren't "Horsewomen" by branding, both sets of chicks were born organically. If Tessa were part of that class of women in NXT, it would make more sense than jusr plugging her in because of her name.

[Tom Guycott]

Never was that into Asuka. I believe NXT overhypes alot of these women.

It's more the botching of the character that they built up than the botching of Asuka herself that is ridiculous. I don't find Asuka the performer to be miles ahead of everyone else. But they did a good job of building her up as unstoppable. And then just shat it all away in a manner where it almost takes a special talent to botch a push that badly. It's not the fact that she lost a match (though that's the easy WWE apologist strawman). It's the fact that she went from an unstoppable beast to a joke of a jobber in an instant.

I've watched one Asuka match since her call up, which was the match with Charlotte at Mania. I watched a number of her matches in nxt, mostly the Takeover stuff. The way she was presented was night and day.

Nxt Asuka was an unstoppable monster, like a villain in a horror film. Doesn't matter what you throw at her, she keeps getting up and eventually you are destroyed.

WrestleMania Asuka looked like she was the equal to Charlotte. It didn't seem like Charlotte had to nearly kill herself to beat Asuka. They wrestled like they were peers.

To me, that's the death knell. Whatever made Asuka special on nxt was lost simply by how they booked her matches. If and when she loses, it should be because the other person essentially had to try and kill her. They don't seem to be doing that. Hence she fails.

Sadly, it is a systemic thing not limited to Asuka, or women's wrestling in general. It is a NXT to WWE issue.

It isn't a matter of "overhype", it is a matter of diminishing what the big deal was. Bray Wyatt had his two heavies, but he was dangerous in and of himself. Main roster Bray Wyatt was a jobber who rambled crazy promos. NXT Sami Zayn was the scrappy, fight from underneath competitor who could hang with - if not beat - anyone on any night. WWE Sami Zayn cuts annoying promos and hides behind Kevin Steen. NXT Tyler Breeze was top tier talent who warranted bringing in Jushin Thunder fucking Liger for ample competition. WWE Tyler Breeze has to record stupid backstage segments that don't even air on the show - that you have to seek out online - to get something to do. NXT Ascension was an unstoppable force. WWE Ascension are a pair of nobodies.

NXT Asuka was an ass kicker. A feared striker. She beat 2 or even 3 girls at once because nobody was ready. Main roster Asuka had trouble beating Emma, a who was already established as a delusional jobber. They even tried to keep the hype surrounding her as momentum going into that RAW where she debuted... but the actual presentation msde her look like anything but. They killed the momentum themselves, and probably had the nerve to say that it was her fault for any bad reaction. It would be like if on the main roster re-emergence of Drew McIntyre, he has a 20 min match with James Ellsworth that he barely wins. Would we be buying him as "the Scottish psychopath" after being shit on like that?

I'm actually currently watching NXT TakeOver Brooklyn 4 as I write this on my phone. Saw Velveteen Dream's tights: "Call Me Up Vince". For his sake, I hope Vince doesn't take him up on it. Not because Dream hasn't come a long way or isn't deserving: he is the perfect mix of Rick Rude and the first iteration of Golddust, but because I know he will be "just another guy" inside of six months.

[Bobholly138]

Why the Fuck do anyone still watch WWE? It has been shit for almost 20 years now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The thing is this was obviously always going to happen. It's why I was asking people why they were excited that Asuka was finally getting called up. How much of a beast can you look selling for Alexa Bliss? Which is the job on the main roster. You're on TV every week doing 50/50 matches that are supposed to fill time. That's something I hate about the nature of the beast, but that's the nature of the beast.

She will be a Women's Champion. Everyone gets to be a Women's Champion. She will be called "possibly the single-most dominant woman in WWE history" again. When that's the role they want her inserted into. Right now her job is to have good matches and lose the acts they want to win for the next few months. She was given the Rumble. She's a "history-maker." They will mention her every year for as long as it is convenient for them. She will be put into the Hall of Fame if she retires on good terms with them.

She's a part of the team. She's a cog in the machine. She knows what she signed up. They all do. They should, anyway. I just don't know how people saw even the foundations of her being presented as a monster in a roster where half the women aren't very good as possible, let alone probable. What did people think would happen when she got in the ring with Peyton Royce?

[xrodmuc316]

The thing is this was obviously always going to happen. It's why I was asking people why they were excited that Asuka was finally getting called up. How much of a beast can you look selling for Alexa Bliss? Which is the job on the main roster. You're on TV every week doing 50/50 matches that are supposed to fill time. That's something I hate about the nature of the beast, but that's the nature of the beast.

She will be a Women's Champion. Everyone gets to be a Women's Champion. She will be called "possibly the single-most dominant woman in WWE history" again. When that's the role they want her inserted into. Right now her job is to have good matches and lose the acts they want to win for the next few months. She was given the Rumble. She's a "history-maker." They will mention her every year for as long as it is convenient for them. She will be put into the Hall of Fame if she retires on good terms with them.

She's a part of the team. She's a cog in the machine. She knows what she signed up. They all do. They should, anyway. I just don't know how people saw even the foundations of her being presented as a monster in a roster where half the women aren't very good as possible, let alone probable. What did people think would happen when she got in the ring with Peyton Royce?

It's not being upset for Asuka, it is being upset WWE blew 3 years of booking for what? To put over the person who is already in the top spot, wrestling royalty, who gained nothing from the victory and would have lost nothing taking the loss.

That is just bad syorytelling.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

It's not even that Asuka lost. I could care less about that. It's how she lost. Anti climactic. Asuka is supposed to be this unstoppable wrecking machine but that's not what she was at Mania. She should've been booked the same way they book Lesnar as this unstoppable terminator, with Charlotte going to great and desperate lengths to win. That'd been fine.

[#1-norm-fan]

I even said going into WrestleMania that I could see her losing to Charlotte and I'd have been down for it happening even. A hard fought knockdown, drag out fight ending in Charlotte just coming out on top would have taken the pressure of the streak off while keeping Asuka strong AND built Charlotte up as a worldbeater. Could have been a win-win. Then the match happened and it was like "... That's it?"

Still, the loss to Charlotte isn't nearly as ridiculous as how she lost to Carmella.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Her loss was anti climactic as fuck. Fine that she lost. But it didn't mean anything and the match itself was built horribly

[Savio]

She tapped in .2 seconds, lol.

This was 2 weeks after C. Flair lost to Natty.... not to mention losing clean to Carmella a month later.

[My Final Heaven]

I've noticed that the announcers have a "tell" that signals the match is over. Anytime they ask "WHAT'S ______ GOING TO DO, WHAT'RE THEY GONNA DO???", that's the last move :lol: Happened with Charlotte, happened with Nattie, happened with Asuka.

Another annoying thing, why doesn't Charlotte tap out in submissions? Anytime she gives up, she slaps her hand once + that's it. I think it's something she picked up from Alberto while she was doing him - "GRR, I'll slightly jiggle my hand, but I won't tap out because I'm so, so legit hard IRL, dammit!!!"

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think it really boils back to WWE being bad. In a good WWE, this would be frustrating, but you also wouldn't have yourself booked into corners with the likes of Carmella and Peyton Royce running around trying to be competitive with your "legit" women.

When Asuka won a Royal Rumble that came down to her and The Bellas, what did you really think would happen? Like, whether she won or lost, you knew that Carmella still had the briefcase and would need to get a run with the blue belt sometime before June, so Asuka was going to have it two months, tops. Like, I get that them being shitty and having all these awful gimmicks and protocols in place doesn't justify bad television, but I don't get how people were optimistic about it. What logically made you think that Asuka beating up Emma and Alexa Bliss was going to feel like really credible pro-wrestling?

[xrodmuc316]

I think it really boils back to WWE being bad. In a good WWE, this would be frustrating, but you also wouldn't have yourself booked into corners with the likes of Carmella and Peyton Royce running around trying to be competitive with your "legit" women.

When Asuka won a Royal Rumble that came down to her and The Bellas, what did you really think would happen? Like, whether she won or lost, you knew that Carmella still had the briefcase and would need to get a run with the blue belt sometime before June, so Asuka was going to have it two months, tops. Like, I get that them being shitty and having all these awful gimmicks and protocols in place doesn't justify bad television, but I don't get how people were optimistic about it. What logically made you think that Asuka beating up Emma and Alexa Bliss was going to feel like really credible pro-wrestling?

We all know that aspect of it, but that still doesn't mean they have to book it so badly.

And why did Carmella have to win just because she had the briefcase? If I am being honest, I would rather have the 1st Royal Rumble winner finish the story than the 1st MITB winner.

And again, this ALL boils down to Asuka changing brands to become a jobber.

WWE called her up to Raw, was sole survivor at Survivor Series, won the Rumble, remained undefeated, spent weeks building towards Asuka vs Alexa, then out of nowhere she goes to Smackdown to be a jobber?

All for what, to accomplish what?

3+ years of building Asuka so they can at the last moment put switch to Nia Jax??

The writers/Vince actually thought THIS was better than the payoff of Asuka's crowning moment at Mania.

Fast forward 4 months and Asuka hasn't even had a match in going out 2
Months.

Is Charlotte anymore over because she beat Asuka, or did she get booed at Summerslam because she has been overplayed?

Is Nia Jax a star, or is she already completely forgotten and just another female on the roster?

They ruined Asuka with the end result being not getting a single other person over.

The only thing that came from it was a short lived return of James Ellsworth, who they didn't even resign.

[Mr. Nerfect]

We all know that aspect of it, but that still doesn't mean they have to book it so badly.

And why did Carmella have to win just because she had the briefcase? If I am being honest, I would rather have the 1st Royal Rumble winner finish the story than the 1st MITB winner.

And again, this ALL boils down to Asuka changing brands to become a jobber.

WWE called her up to Raw, was sole survivor at Survivor Series, won the Rumble, remained undefeated, spent weeks building towards Asuka vs Alexa, then out of nowhere she goes to Smackdown to be a jobber?

All for what, to accomplish what?

3+ years of building Asuka so they can at the last moment put switch to Nia Jax??

The writers/Vince actually thought THIS was better than the payoff of Asuka's crowning moment at Mania.

Fast forward 4 months and Asuka hasn't even had a match in going out 2
Months.

Is Charlotte anymore over because she beat Asuka, or did she get booed at Summerslam because she has been overplayed?

Is Nia Jax a star, or is she already completely forgotten and just another female on the roster?

They ruined Asuka with the end result being not getting a single other person over.

The only thing that came from it was a short lived return of James Ellsworth, who they didn't even resign.

To take things in order (and sorry to be argumentative, I do like you as a poster, I'm just going through to be thorough:

* No, but it was obvious she was going to be. They were pushing Alexa Bliss and Carmella on the main roster before they were pushing her. This was prior knowledge. I mean, there's generally expecting WWE to fuck it up, but I'm talking specifically look at the players -- how good was Asuka vs. Alexa Bliss going to actually be? That needs to be what you get excited for in order to get excited for Asuka on the main roster. In my opinion, anyway. Anything else is kind of naive.

* Because they were pushing her and every girl gets a run with the belt in order to show them "respect" and because they genuinely think that she has what it takes to be a star because she looks good nekkid and probably works hard in the right ways. This is not a division where merit directly corresponds to success. Hell, this isn't a company for that. They were coming up to the next Women's Money in the Bank and didn't want to admit the first one was a bust publicly. There was no way Carmella was flubbing her cash in. I'd rather neither happened and instead the women were booked to have their own storylines instead of putting on mustaches and trying to get booked into the men's. But the WWE doesn't really center things like that. We've got a Hell in a Cell PPV coming up, and by crikey, we're going to have a Hell in a Cell match. It doesn't matter if the women have trouble making it over the top rope -- we're going to have a Royal Rumble Match for them, because everyone wants a Royal Rumble Match. A round robin would probably work better for the women, and it can keep an "RR" connotation and be marketed with a similar aesthetic, but nah.

* Okay, but what did you expect to happen when she lost? For independent talent to be flown in just to feed to her? If that happened, we'd be complaining that it's the same story they just told and failed with.

* Yeah, okay, but that's because she was getting a push and focused on. Now she's not getting a push and getting focused on. When she is getting a push and focused on she will get a push and be focused on. I think you're upset that she's not getting a push and focused on. But that will happen again.

* They milked her for what they wanted to get. That's what they do. Nia Jax was always going to be focused on. She's The Rock's cousin. I don't get how this is surprising, I was saying that this was going to happen back when Asuka was in NXT. You have to push Alexa Bliss, Charlotte and Nia Jax in their cosmos. If there are only four spots of real priority, then that leaves one for someone to fill as their contemporary. Asuka got to do it for a few months. Now Ronda Rousey is in and Becky Lynch is getting that push. Soon it won't be Becky Lynch and someone else will have a turn. Maybe Naomi will turn heel? Maybe they call in Shayna and use her for a few months? Maybe then it will be Asuka's again? I don't know why anyone expected this to become The Asuka Division.

* You say it was Asuka's crowning moment at WrestleMania, but it wasn't -- it was Charlotte's. I agree that having Charlotte lose the next week is counterproductive to that, but they wanted people to come out of WrestleMania thinking about "Ronda and Charlotte, Ronda and Charlotte." They are now fucking that up in their own way by cunting up Charlotte by pushing the fans to the point where they are likely to hijack her stuff now. That's the real travesty here.

* Asuka not having a match in 2 months is probably to refresh her, both on-air and off. I'm sure she's happy getting her paycheck and yucking it up with Vince. That's probably why she signed in the first place.

* Nia Jax is Nia Jax. She's not like most girls. She's not getting focused on right now. And she sucks. But she's still there and will come out and win another belt sometime soon. I dunno, I'd say she's not a star, but you tell me that. That is what they want to do and what they are going to do with every girl they cycle in and out of the spot. That's exactly my point.

* Asuka is not ruined by WWE standards. That's like A2 of my point. She's not world-beating, but that's because they don't do that. They were never going to do that. Charlotte, Ronda, Alexa, Nikki Bella and Nia Jax are all higher priorities for WrestleMania next year. That has never changed. You can argue that Asuka is #6. That was as high as she was ever going to get. I could have told you that before she came in. It's been clear that was always going to be the way for some time.

* When Charlotte, Becky and Sasha debuted on the main roster, they were made to be contemporaries of The Bella Twins & Alicia Fox. It was all over then. June 2015, or whenever that was.