What year of WWF Did you prefer: 1997 or 1998

[Bad News Gertner]

Took a bit of a break from from 1984 chronological rewatch and started watching a lot of 97 Raw and Shotgun. It was a transition year for the company and I feel is highly under-rated. I'm possibly putting it ahead of 98 in terms of personal enjoyment. There was so much great stuff:

Hart Foundation vs D/X
HHH vs Cactus Jack
Bret va Shawn
Owen and Bulldog having a great run as tag champs
Austin vs Owen/Bret/Pillman

So much good stuff. Now it definitely still had some stench from the previous "every wrestler has to have an occupation " era, but it's still really friggen good.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I preferred elements of 1997 much more than 98 but as a whole 1998 is vastly superior.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

like to me Hart Foundation is my fave stable of all time. But Steve Austin on top can't be touched.

[Bad News Gertner]

Going back and watching the two years, 1998 WWF ages worse than 97 WWF by far.

[Lock Jaw]

1997 much better with the Hart Foundation, and Austin's feud with Bret and the Foundation is better than Austin on top.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I preferred elements of 1997 much more than 98 but as a whole 1998 is vastly superior.

I'm trying to find a way to summarize my feelings on this, and I think this gets closest to them. 1997 had some really great stuff critically, but overall it's against a backdrop of "not there yet." 1998 is when things got hot, and that zeitgeist adds a lot to stuff that might not even be as good. 1998 is like a really good blockbuster, but 1997 is like a really brilliantly crafted drama that may not have the same widespread appeal, but you appreciate on a more nuanced level.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't really know which I prefer. I'd take that two year period for its artistic and commercial greatness (well, with the top stuff).

[BigCrippyZ]

This is such a tough question. There was great stuff, and in hindsight, shitty stuff, in both years. The only differences to me are that 1998 felt like a bigger deal, and, in the moment, even the shitty stuff in 1998 seemed better than it was. I don't remember the bad stuff in 1997 at the time, seeming to be better than it was.

[Jordan]

I think 97 WWF is the best they ever had story wise.

[Emperor Smeat]

Leaning towards '98 even though '97 had some really great stuff happen.

1997 still had some New Gen era residue to it although not as conspicuous as 1996 while 1998 is full on Attitude Era and built off the Montreal Screwjob as its key starting point.

Between the two years, Austin's best Mania match happens in 1997 against Bret but enjoyed his feud with Vince a year a lot more overall.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Going back and watching the two years, 1998 WWF ages worse than 97 WWF by far.

interesting.

[Rammsteinmad]

Probably 1998, but I haven't really watched/gone back to anything from those years since. Plus I was a WCW guy back then.

[Bad News Gertner]

Go check out some 97 Shotgun Saturday Night episodes on youtube. Pillman does commentary with Ross for like 6 months and they are tremendous. Lots of good matches and Pillman is insane on commentary.

I posted a video below. This uploader put up like 20 episodes and I've watched all of them over the past month. So addicting.

jurV-8yg7RQ

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

pfft you don't think I'm aware of Shotgun Pillman after reading Crazy like a fox?

[Nicky Fives]

98. Beginning of 97 was not that great, 98 was solid all the way through...

[Jordan]

In 97 we had the rise of Austin, the beginning of Austin/McMahon... the amazing Hart Foundation/Austin feud. Great PPV matchs like Austin/Hart, Taker/Austin, Taker/Mankind, HHH/Cactus, Funk/Cactus, HBK/Austin, HBK/HHH vs Mankind/Taker, the last great Road Warriors run, Canadian Stampede, Taker/Bret, and of course Montreal. It was really my favorite year for wrestling ever. I was 10 years old, I was already calling the insider hotlines for the scoops... it was the beginning of me falling in love with the business.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Yeah the 1st half of 97 was butt. The Rumble was butt, Mania was butt. It didn’t really get great until the Hart Foundation and DX started their stuff. After that it was tremendous. Except for that god awful Nation/Boricuas/DOA race war feud they tried to make happen.

[Bad News Gertner]

97 Rumble > 98 Rumble

[Supreme Olajuwon]

say whaaaaaaaaaat

[Supreme Olajuwon]

97 they had a multi tag match with luchadors

98 they had a multi tag match with midget luchadors

No contest

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Flynn Vs. Blackman!

[Bad News Gertner]

97 they had a multi tag match with luchadors

98 they had a multi tag match with midget luchadors

No contest

You got me there. Max Mini 4 life.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I will say though that my opinion of 97 WWF may be a bit colored by me being firmly emotionally entrenched in the Sting/nWo feud for all of 97. I watched both but if I had to choose one over the other in 97 I was definitely picking WCW. After Starrcade 97 that switched though.

[LibSuperstar]

'97. It had a lot of great material. It was the diamond in the rough. '98 was the polished entertaining product.

[Maluco]

In 97 we had the rise of Austin, the beginning of Austin/McMahon... the amazing Hart Foundation/Austin feud. Great PPV matchs like Austin/Hart, Taker/Austin, Taker/Mankind, HHH/Cactus, Funk/Cactus, HBK/Austin, HBK/HHH vs Mankind/Taker, the last great Road Warriors run, Canadian Stampede, Taker/Bret, and of course Montreal. It was really my favorite year for wrestling ever. I was 10 years old, I was already calling the insider hotlines for the scoops... it was the beginning of me falling in love with the business.

This for me, to the letter.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Go check out some 97 Shotgun Saturday Night episodes on youtube. Pillman does commentary with Ross for like 6 months and they are tremendous. Lots of good matches and Pillman is insane on commentary.

I posted a video below. This uploader put up like 20 episodes and I've watched all of them over the past month. So addicting.

jurV-8yg7RQ

The King of the Ring commercial with Jerry Lawler is amazing.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

97 they had a multi tag match with luchadors

98 they had a multi tag match with midget luchadors

No contest

you really sussed it out right here /thread - hail supreme.

[Bad News Gertner]

Shotgun would have these random 8 man tags with guys from AAA. Such a random show.

[Shisen Kopf]

Sid crapped himself in 1997.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Shotgun would have these random 8 man tags with guys from AAA. Such a random show.

My perception of it was that it was like a Jakked/Metal show, so going back and discovering that it was far more eclectic is really fun.

[Loose Cannon]

97 was my fav year in wrestling by far, so 1997.

[xrodmuc316]

1998, Austin on top, rise of Mr McMahon, The Rocks ascension. 1998 KOTR with Mankind, then Mankind great Babyface turn. Undertaker going full satanic. DX invading WCW. Mike Tyson. The Nation vs DX feud.

1997 was great, no arguing that, but 1998 gets my vote.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Up there for one of the best one-two punch years for the WWF.

[EIWF]

Jerry Flynn was very under used by WCW. He was better at martial arts then Ernest Miller. His promos were better then Dean Malenko. His mullet was way cooler then Mike Awesomes. His in ring abilty was better then Goldberg, they just booked him wrong. Fucking Kevin Sullivan!

[Crippla]

Going back and watching the two years, 1998 WWF ages worse than 97 WWF by far.

This is true. I'm a huge freak for nostalgia and I love them both but at the time I def would have said 1998

[Crippla]

I also preferred watching Rick Fuller in WCW!

[Mr. Nerfect]

1997 definitely has the better actual wrestling matches, right? If revisiting that is your thing.

[Jordan]

97 because there is Shawn & Bret, Austin & McMahon, Austin & Hart Foundation, Austin & McMahon, DX, Taker & Kane ... best time for my fandom ever, it won't get any better because I will never be 10 again.

[Splaya]

I've never watched 1997 raw and shotguns so I'm gonna start that soon. I loved all the stuff from 1998 (1998 was when I started watching wrestling hardcore like every week beginning at WM14

[Crippla]

1997 definitely has the better actual wrestling matches, right? If revisiting that is your thing.

Yeah I would say so.. If we are talking strictly wrestling matches then I would pick 97 even before I had re watched basically the whole attitude era a couple years ago. I def have more memorable matches burned in my brain from 1997 than 1998.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

1997 has its struggles but it’s wayyyyyyy more cohesive than 98 (as a whole). 98 just has a more solidified top draw which really makes all the difference in the world. Plus Rock is on the rise which helped too.

[Bad News Gertner]

My opinion definitely hasn't changed since I made this thread.

98 Raw is a fucking chore to get through

[drave]

What are the TOP 3 WORST things about 98




and conversely




What are the TOP 3 BEST things




My memory is shit. I used to have a WWE trivia game but couldn't remember anything.

[Bad News Gertner]

Top 3 Best

1. You had two of the biggest stars in history at the same time. Two "one in a million" guys in Stone Cold and the Rock coming into their own

2. The characters were all distinct and entertaining

3. Pretty much everyone could cut a promo and talk. Plus the constant electric crowds


Top 3 Worst

1. A lot of it doesn't age well and I'm not talking about the stuff people find offensive today. Like ECW it's very "of its time"

2. The CONSTANT run ins and post match beat downs. I watched an early 98 Raw a while back and counted 4 post match beat downs in a row.

3. The roster was still pretty thin. They had guys who would become stars later on but it still had the same issues 97 did

[Bad News Gertner]

I didn't mention anything in ring because it doesn't matter to me as much as it does others. I RARELY watch a match over 20 minutes

[Seanny One Ball]

98 was better.

98 had Mike Tyson ffs.

[drave]

What year did DX read their letter on air to the FCC?




That was a great year. Truly no fucks given.

[Bad News Gertner]

1997

[drave]

97 was better

[Loose Cannon]

97 was so awesome with the Hart Foundation storyline

[Loose Cannon]

and 97 DX was 100x better then 98 DX.

[Crippla]

I didn't mention anything in ring because it doesn't matter to me as much as it does others. I RARELY watch a match over 20 minutes

Yeah a match that long is ok once in a great while if the wrestlers are able to pull it off and keep my attention but I'm not generally a fan of long drawn out matches

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

10-15 minutes is my ideal TV main event. Everything else should be squash matches where guys get to do some character work, bar the odd "special attraction."

That said, I won't complain about a hot 6 minute throwdown. Guys can kick the shit out of one another in that time and get the audience riled up.

[XL]

Yep. Most of my disengagement with the weekly shows is the 15+ plus segments whether it’s a match or a promo. You need to be a fire talker to keep a segment engaging for that long. There’s got to be a happy medium between extra long segments and 98 style “everything ends in a schmozz”.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Raw in mid-ish 2000 tended to strike that balance.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

97 was pretty good for that too from what I can remember.

[Bad News Gertner]

Cornette was still heavily involved. Raw changes BIG TIME when Cornette leaves and Russo is given the reigns.

[Mr. Nerfect]

1999 Raw had some awful stuff on it. It’s carried by how hot its stars were. But 1999 is when you really start to notice stuff that goes nowhere or doesn’t make sense. That’s also when the IC Title goes from Rock/HHH to Road Dogg/Godfather. It does change a lot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’d be interesting to see what would have happened if Cornette had stuck around even post-creative and taken the job as SmackDown’s color guy. Cornette’s DNA probably would have had to have been different in the first place, and OVW possibly suffers. But I wonder if he could have had a more involvement in 2000 again. But the rise of Stephanie was probably inevitable. But if he could have fostered a good working relationship with her and actually helped her produce good creative…who knows?

[Bad News Gertner]

1999 Raw had some awful stuff on it. It’s carried by how hot its stars were. But 1999 is when you really start to notice stuff that goes nowhere or doesn’t make sense. That’s also when the IC Title goes from Rock/HHH to Road Dogg/Godfather. It does change a lot.

1999 is ATROCIOUS . 99 Raw makes 98 look like 86 NWA. Chris Kreski and crew taking over from Russo/Ferrera was a Godsend

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

1999 is ATROCIOUS . 99 Raw makes 98 look like 86 NWA. Chris Kreski and crew taking over from Russo/Ferrera was a Godsend

lol I remember Conrad asking Bruce about Chris Kreski, and of course, Bruce completely buries the guy. Basically said he had no impact on anything lol--which was interesting given how good a lot of 2000 was.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol typical Bruce. The writing changes SO much before and after Kreski

Main reason was because he used storyboards. So stuff actually made sense, wrestlers had actual friends which is something they NEVER do.

[Crippla]

Huge difference from 1999 to 2000! I think 2000 was one of my favorite overall years for WWE

[Crippla]

Prob not a popular opinion but i think I would vote 2000 over both 97 and 98 if it was on the poll.

[Bad News Gertner]

You'd be in the overwhelming majority.

[Crippla]

You would be surprised how many people disagree though

[Crippla]

A lot of wrestling fans are very high on 97

[Bad News Gertner]

2000 WWE is pretty much perfect

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

1997 has some great stuff but it’s disjointed as fuck. 2000 is more consistent. They both had underwhelming WrestleMania tho, interestingly enough.

[Bad News Gertner]

The roster depth of 2000 compared to 1997 is night and day. The friggen Holly's were more over than any 97 tag team lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

I never remember 97 getting much credit until the WWE Network came along.

[screech]

The Hollys had Crash with the scale. Instant crowd-pleaser.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's the Chris Kreski world-building. Everyone and everything was connected instead of feuds existing separately.

[Crippla]

1997 has some great stuff but it’s disjointed as fuck. 2000 is more consistent. They both had underwhelming WrestleMania tho, interestingly enough.

Yeah definitely. Early 2000 was still kind of building off of 1999 and just the beginning of some storylines and WrestleMania was very thrown together and did not have the quality of A Mania. But everything progressed nicely as the year went on and you can kind of see it comparing how much better Mania was the next year.

[Crippla]

The first 3 months always seem to fit and reflect more on the previous year

[Jordan]

Some random great memories from 97 WWF...

Alamodome looked awesome! Too much lucha but that was such a fun show.

Vader gets bloody at Final Four, first ever Four Way Match!

I was so disappointed Shawn didn't Wrestle at Mania. I loved that show though. It gets some bad reviews but for me it was awesome. Obviously I loved Hart/Austin but also I was really into the Triple H/Goldust feud, The Chicago Street Fight and for a 10 year old me I really enjoyed Taker vs Sid.

The angle with HBK & Austin teaming up and then facing off at KOTR was one of my favorites.

Canadian Stampede an all time great PPV.

The Kane and Taker story begins.

Ahmed seems like he's on the verge of his biggest match.

Stables start to form, GANG RULZ.

That amazing Raw Thursday (or was it Friday) with HBK & Triple H vs Mankind & The Undertaker.

Cactus goddamn Jack came to WWF.

Obvious insanity and fallout of the Screwjob.

McMahon is born.

Austin is a raging alcoholic, out of control!

Oh yeah and Shotgun Saturday Night was really fun for a little bit in 97 too!

[Loose Cannon]

I liked the Ministry of Darkness angle in 99. That was my fav Undertaker character. The Higher Power "who is it" storyline kept my interest.

I actually liked 2001 and 2002 better then 2000.

[Evil Vito]

I feel like 6-7 minutes would be perfect for most TV matches. A long enough time to tell a story and get people invested...not making people feel like they're being gypped out of seeing wrestling, but also not burning people out with 15 minute matches all night, aside from the main those are really best served for PPV.

It's a really nice happy medium between the current shows in which the non-main event matches are needlessly long and the late 90s when matches rarely ever hit 3 minutes.

[Evil Vito]

Love AEW and enjoy Dynamite most weeks but they really don't need to have some of the TV matches be as long as they are. Appreciate the in-ring focus of course but they have such a huge roster, shortening up the matches would serve to get more people featured and make the matches that need to be long feel more important.

[Mr. Nerfect]

TV matches should direct your attention somewhere. Sometimes a good match is important, but usually your TV show should be used to build the match. AEW is horrible at that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Even long matches aren’t as good as they think they are. It’s about telling the appropriate story, not the longest story. It’s better to actually be engaging for 6 minutes than go 16 and bore people because you aren’t really that good.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think people would be surprised to go back and look at some of their favorite matches or things that they remember being good/hot and seeing how short they actually were.