WWE Survivor Series 2018 Thread

[KIRA]

Why why is Ronda Rousey dress like a Scottish geisha

[My Final Heaven]

Oh god... I can't watch this. Somebody tell me when this one's over :|

[Gerard]

What is it with a lot of these women wrestlers platting their hair as of late? becky has some of hers platted, charlotte has it as well, ronda always has it like that, some of the others as well. They just jumping on the mma look?

[slik]

Charlotte dominating Ronda so far

[KIRA]

Charlotte still getting Heat

[My Final Heaven]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Unrelated to anything, but in Ireland the slang word for ‘toilet’ is ‘Jax.’</p>&mdash; The Man (@BeckyLynchWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/BeckyLynchWWE/status/1064345952490844160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[KIRA]

What is it with a lot of these women wrestlers platting their hair as of late? becky has some of hers platted, charlotte has it as well, ronda always has it like that, some of the others as well. They just jumping on the mma look?

It makes more sense when you're fighting not to have it hanging all over the place

[Gerard]

Charlotte dominating Ronda so far

Was wondering why i detected a whiff of tuna. :shifty:

[GD]

Damn, Charlotte is towering Ronda.

[Gerard]

It makes more sense when you're fighting not to have it hanging all over the place

Yeah but its only a recent thing for wwe, mma women have always done it that way. Since Rousey came in seems a lot of them are doing something similar.

[GD]

Ronda already bleeding.

[slik]

This is good so far

[Gerard]

Ronda already bleeding.

That time of the month. :-\

[Triple A]

Funny as h*ll 2001 era posts @Gerard, love it dude!!!

[Gerard]

Funny as h*ll 2001 era posts @Gerard, love it dude!!!

https://i.imgur.com/eHlbGsM.jpg

[GD]

I am thoroughly enjoying this bout.

[Gerard]

What did she just gibber to the crowd? Seen crackheads that were easier to understand.

[xrodmuc316]

You know what, Ronda was a real life killer in MMA, has been a Pro Wrestler for less than a year, and EVEN SHE knows how to throw worked punches.

Nia Jax is such a piece of trash.

[Gerard]

Remember when wrestlers used to work a body part for the submission instead of constantly going for the submission over and over and over. :roll:

[GD]

lol wtf WWE?

[slik]

Let's Go Charlotte chant

[slik]

lol RAW wins again

[Gerard]

Well this made sense....

[GD]

A clean fucking sweep

[GD]

This is the most over Charlotte has ever been

[Gerard]

Waiting on her going old school flair and starting to strip whilst throwing clothes into the crowd and randomly elbow dropping the canvas.

[xrodmuc316]

LOL ok am I the only one who thinks that was the exact match ending they had for Becky/Ronda? WWE writers are so lazy.

[GD]

Charlotte just went full Becky

[DaveWadding]

Evil Charlotte is gonna be dope.

[My Final Heaven]

This outcome is preferable to what I'm sure "Plan A" was. I guess

[rockman725]

Well, this is your Wrestlemania 35 main event. Glad I didn't waste $250 on a ticket afterall

[Triple A]

What are they saying, "thank you Charlotte"?

[slik]

Charlotte <3


teaching that jabroni a lesson

[KIRA]

So Charlotte's big storyline is that she snapped because she doesn't know how to lose

[xrodmuc316]

So much for Becky getting Ronda at Mania. WWE don't give a fuck!

[Gerard]

https://i.imgur.com/qsQgDtk.gif

[My Final Heaven]

What are they saying, "thank you Charlotte"?

https://i.redd.it/8f4eytysxzzz.gif

[Evil Vito]

“I did it for The Man”

[Gerard]

https://i.imgur.com/mDrjOXN.gif

[Savio]

Wonder if Becky was going to be in Chars spot if not injured.... probably.

[GD]

lol Ronda just told a fan that he’s not a man.

[Loose Cannon]

fucking 5 star match. amazing performance by both women. I feel bad for Becky because this was her spot, but holy shit that was incredible

[Gerard]

Wonder if Becky was going to be in Chars spot if not injured.... probably.

More than likely. Same storyline with a different Character.

[Evil Vito]

Well, this is your Wrestlemania 35 main event. Glad I didn't waste $250 on a ticket afterall

Mania is amazing live no matter what the card

[rockman725]

I will give her some props though for standing in there and taking those shots. Regardless of whether its a work or not, that's gotta sting

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

that was physical as fuck.

[Savio]

Why the Ronda hate?

[KIRA]

I can't wait till Becky gets her spot back

[GD]

Feel like Daniel Bryan will job out in record time.

[KIRA]

https://i.redd.it/8f4eytysxzzz.gif

The only person I know with a more punchable face than Kevin Dunn is Ted Cruz

[Triple A]

Why the Ronda hate?

Yeah, weird... Crowd "trying to be cool" or something...

Whole segment was really great other than the weird crowd response

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Why the Ronda hate?

Ronda is easy to hate but also easy to like. The problem is WWE doesn't understand you don't have your babyface get straight beaten up like what happened there. Today's fans enjoy "badass submission" machines. That is exactly what Charlotte turned into, and ronda just took a beating without fighintg back. that's not how you book a babyface in 2018.

[Savio]

Hey, the WWE title is finally Main eventing a PPV.

[GD]

Hey, the WWE title is finally Main eventing a PPV.

lol

[Triple A]

Ronda is easy to hate but also easy to like. The problem is WWE doesn't understand you don't have your babyface get straight beaten up like what happened there. Today's fans enjoy "badass submission" machines. That is exactly what Charlotte turned into, and ronda just took a beating without fighintg back. that's not how you book a babyface in 2018.

Yeah, it's one thing to cheer Charlotte, but then booing Rousey for some reason and chanting "thank you Charlotte" is strange...

[slik]

Becky vs Charlotte vs Ronda at WrestleMania please

[rockman725]

This is a match that I never thought would happen. I can't believe they are actually gonna let DB work a match with someone as physical as Lesnar. 1 bad suplex and the guy is done.

[Triple A]

Gonna do a "Raw sweep" I guess... that's why they didn't count the Kickoff show match I'm guessing

[Gerard]

Here comes the 2/3 move wonder, Brock. :|

[slik]

Lots of time left in this show

[slik]

I think DBry will win

[GD]

lol Daniel Bryan loses in record time

[KIRA]

t Daniel looks like he is legit happy as hell

[slik]

Love DBry taunting Brock

[Savio]

DB will spear lesnar and beat him in 1:15

[Gerard]

t Daniel looks like he is legit happy as hell

Looks like he just got back from throwing a ring into Mordor.

[Triple A]

How long has Daniel Bryan had that cut on his nose... Feels like it has been there for a long time without healing...

[My Final Heaven]

https://image.ibb.co/ei8NH0/Screenshot-2018-11-18-22-01-27-2.png

LMAO at how they worded it :rofl:
Not "Ronda Rousey defeats Charlotte Flair via disqualification", but "Charlotte was disqualified". It's like when the home team has a blowout loss in high school football, & the local paper runs the headline "Home Team defeats themselves in heartbreaking loss" :lol:

[Loose Cannon]

This is the 1st Lesnnar match i've been interested in a looooong time

[Gerard]

You can tell they know they're running too fast on the show with all this bullshit stalling, even Lesnar took a while to come out on his entrance.

[Triple A]

oh god @ suplexing him right on his head smfh

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Defending?

[Savio]

Fucking awful camera work.

[slik]

Right on his neck

[Gerard]

Lesnar is getting good at dropping people on their heads with the German Suplex, he did it to one of mahals cronies twice last monday.

[Loose Cannon]

i just cringed on that first suplex

[GD]

Whoever booked tonight’s show has a special place in hell.

[Savio]

Gald he's not doing germans anymore

[slik]

Remember everyone DBry's gimmick is the ultimate underdog...he's setting Lesnar up...

[Gerard]

Ooh a bearhung, Brock dun got himself a new move!

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Fox execs that are all backstage have to be THRILLED about Smackdown's portrayal tonight</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1064357497341968385?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Savio]

Brock called the fan a fucking moron, lol

[KIRA]

Birdie is going to need a new Daddy I think Samoa Joe will do it he seems willing to be surrogate father to kids

[Theo Dious]

THIS IS STUPID
CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP
THIS IS STUPID
CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP
THIS IS STUPID
CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP
THIS IS STUPID
CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP

[GD]

Survivor Series 2018 killed my inner child.

[slik]

I think DBry will still win

[Evil Vito]

I'm sure FOX is thrilled they spent a fortune for SmackDown

[Gerard]

The usual shit f5.

[GD]

Wow! They’re just twisting the knife right now.

[owenbrown]

judging by the thread tonight, whoever booked Survivor Series tonight indulged way too much on the legal weed in Los Angeles.

[slik]

Brock's weakness, his penis

[Gerard]

They make the ref bumps soooo fucking obvious. :lol:

[GD]

I can’t believe what I am watching

[Triple A]

Really good...

[GD]

Running knee into an F-5

[KIRA]

Really good...

You like this

[slik]

I like this too @Kira

[Gerard]

Seriously, does putting an opponent on your shoulder and running him into the post ever NOT backfire?

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/3V5LpT9Zn9">pic.twitter.com/3V5LpT9Zn9</a></p>&mdash; TDE Wrestling (@totaldivaseps) <a href="https://twitter.com/totaldivaseps/status/1064359297163952128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Savio]

Lesnar when will you learn your weakness is ring steps?

[KIRA]

I like this too @Kira

No I was saying something different I'm a little bit behind by like a few seconds he was still getting mauled when I was watching my bad guys

[GD]

Jesus fucking Christ, I am going to have a heart attack tonight

[Triple A]

You like this

Yeah this rules

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">BRYAN.<br><br>➡️ <a href="https://t.co/ePt5TzD6sU">https://t.co/ePt5TzD6sU</a> <a href="https://t.co/ylIf3BpsMG">pic.twitter.com/ylIf3BpsMG</a></p>&mdash; TDE Wrestling (@totaldivaseps) <a href="https://twitter.com/totaldivaseps/status/1064359779076907009?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GD]

Yes Lock!

[Blonde Moment]

lesnar will shrug it off and win

[slik]

F5 into the Yes Lock!

[GD]

A clean sweep! They twisted the knife really good tonight.

[Savio]

That was a very nice match.

[Gerard]

And a second shit f5 to finish it off. :|

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Did Fox pull out?

[Triple A]

That was fucking awesome imo

[slik]

Good match

[slik]

I'm surprised RAW won everything tho

[Blonde Moment]

Is Shane fired? Or was I thinking for another match.....

[Loose Cannon]

did Lesnar legit blow his knee out???

[KIRA]

Okay he lost but I'm not mad

[Evil Vito]

Lmao @ Raw clean sweep

Never change, WWE

[KIRA]

Daniel Bryan letting the hate flow through him

[Triple A]

did Lesnar legit blow his knee out???

Nah, they did a "knee into the ring post" spot just before

[Triple A]

That was a really good PPV imo after a streak of some bad ones

[KIRA]

The moment you realize that Daniel Bryan gave Brock Lesnar more fight than John Cena

[Loose Cannon]

Nah, they did a "knee into the ring post" spot just before

oh ok i missed that. i was like why is he holding his knee

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Welp... <a href="https://t.co/XOU0KEIqYp">pic.twitter.com/XOU0KEIqYp</a></p>&mdash; TDE Wrestling (@totaldivaseps) <a href="https://twitter.com/totaldivaseps/status/1064361074781233152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[KIRA]

Also Raw have won the night but Smackdown has a bunch of interesting stories to tell come Tuesday...... provided they fire Road Dogg

[slik]

I thought overall a good ppv

Charlotte/DBry actually coming out of tonight as most talked about superstars on the show

[slik]

SD is and will continue to be a much better show than RAW.

[Triple A]

Yeah despite Charlotte and Bryan losing their matches, they both came out of them as way stronger and much bigger stars than before imo

[Evil Vito]

The booking of this show only makes sense if they’re running an angle where Shane leaves

[slik]

WWE sure deleted this tweet fast

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/pLorYCMs3G">pic.twitter.com/pLorYCMs3G</a></p>&mdash; Khris (@khristen) <a href="https://twitter.com/khristen/status/1064362381294403584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

I am starting to think the WrestleMania plan is:

Brock vs Drew McIntyre
Ronda vs Charlotte vs Becky

[KIRA]

I have a feeling that heel Bryan is going to be so much fun love the way he was looking at the end of the show you wouldn't know that he lost

[KIRA]

I am starting to think the WrestleMania plan is:

Brock vs Drew McIntyre
Ronda vs Charlotte vs Becky

I need Becky Charlotte and Rhonda come WrestleMania if I can't have Asuka killing people this is the next best thing

[KIRA]

A cool throw away tidbit the daily news. UK notes that Brock Lesnar is leaving with Daniel Bryan's boot print literally on the side of his face

[slik]

WWE with 5 spots on the worldwide trends on twitter r/n


https://i.imgur.com/XQiwI0Y.png

[#1-norm-fan]

Unless they’re leaving the company immediately, Brock and Ronda shouldn’t job until WWE builds legit megastars to put over them. So... never. Sounds like Charlotte and Bryan came out alright though.

[#1-norm-fan]

Lol @ Raw winning every match though. Lol

[rez]

Ah, damn. I thought SS was next weekend. Oh well.

lol at Enzo

[rez]

just read the results via Triple A's report. Wow..glad I did not waste my time

[GD]

Even though I am butthurt that Smackdown lost, the main event, Charlotte vs Ronda, and the Cruiserweight title match were dope.

[Stickman]

I feel like the end to the Flair/Rousey match was exactly what Becky was going to do. That was completely Becky’s character not Flair so I really hope Becky keeps her momentum going.

[Fignuts]

Not sure why they didn't end the show with Stephanie coming out and shitting in Paige's mouth. Would have fit the theme of the night.

[Fignuts]

Also, crowd was shit. Thought I was watching a Japanese audience for most of the night.

[Fignuts]

I wasn't paying attention when Seth came out. Did they keep the "Burn it down" part in his theme?

[Splaya]

I feel like the end to the Flair/Rousey match was exactly what Becky was going to do. That was completely Becky’s character not Flair so I really hope Becky keeps her momentum going.

Becky was getting a pop no matter what she did post match. So if this was the angle, I’m glad they did it with Charlotte. It fully turned her heel and now I hope that they take her and trade her to Raw and let Becky run with Smackdown.

[Loose Cannon]

So i just saw Enzo cutting a promo in the front row on yahoo. was he actually caught doing this on WWE cameras? wondering if it was a work if so

[Loose Cannon]

still that Ronda/Flair match :yes::yes::yes::yes:

[Innovator]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Want some avocado toast? Make you feel better.</p>&mdash; The Man (@BeckyLynchWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/BeckyLynchWWE/status/1064518147179495425?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[#1-norm-fan]

I hope Enzo going to WWE shows to cut promos in the middle of matches becomes a thing.

[Loose Cannon]

I wonder if this is leading to the Horsewomen feud they've been rumoring forever. With the 4 on 4match happening at Mania

[RP]

Just got done jacking off to Alexa in that Raw shirt. I'm dehydrated

[Stickman]

Becky was getting a pop no matter what she did post match. So if this was the angle, I’m glad they did it with Charlotte. It fully turned her heel and now I hope that they take her and trade her to Raw and let Becky run with Smackdown.

But do we need heel Flair and heel Becky (she is technically a heel).

[Jordan]

I've been watching the show from the beginning with no spoilers but it's so boring. The Cruiserweight Title match was really good and the end of the women's Survivor Series was really good but The US/IC collision was boring and the tag match was forgettable. I'm on the men of Raw vs the men of Smackdown now.

[Jordan]

Joe was just squashed, I hate that.

[Evil Vito]

Nakamura's gear was fucking stupid

[Jordan]

I hate that they have to wear those bright shirts.

[Jordan]

Except Shane of course wears a baseball jersey.

[Jordan]

Wow Miz is becoming babyface.

[Jordan]

Wow Finn and Miz seem to have really great chemistry.

[Triple A]

Nakamura's gear was fucking stupid

Yeah looked terrible with the SmackDown t-shirt on top of his outfit

[Jordan]

I loved the Raw vs Smackdown man match. Good story.

[Jordan]

This Rousey/Flair match is insane. Totally going to Mania.

[Jordan]

Ending of the Ronda/Charlotte match was so brutal. Ronda was covered in damage.

[Vastardikai]

I hope that, the next time Enzo does that shit, the Authors beat his ass. Actually, just have the Authors beat his ass on principle.

[Jordan]

Great match with Brock and Bryan. 3 really good matches on the show I'd have to say thumbs up but the start was quite boring.

[Loose Cannon]

the final 3 matches saved the show. the rest was pretty forgettable. Ronda/Flair was epic though so it made the whole thing worth it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Daniel Bryan is a great human being and possibly my favorite professional wrestler ever. My fucking god, what a masterpiece. And Brock Lesnar is one of the best sellers in professional wrestling. He's beautiful. Bryan's first kick shook him to his core. A chop block and a wrap around the ring post and he is sucked into the agony of the moment. What a fucking genius.

People can be down on the booking around him, and maybe he's not worth as much money as they are paying him; but my god, if you have the talent around him, he's worth a major investment. There are so many smaller guys with far less inherent credibility that could learn a lot from watching how Brock works instead of being resentful of his position.

I fucking hate the shirts. These PPVs could feel quite epic is they were based on just who the guys they are, but they aesthetically dilute things by making them look like geeks. Unless you are Shane McMahon, of course. When they did the Bragging Rights PPV, they taped the ropes up to be half-red/half-blue. Do that and have the guys start out in their corners. Mention it in their introduction. It's really only a story for people at home anyway, so the commentators can do it. The shirt thing needs to stop. When Nakamura is in blue pants, we know who he is representing. Actually, just lose the Raw/SmackDown things, it's fucking stupid.

By the way, commentary is fucking brutal. It's so bad. If you don't watch a WWE show for some time and then come back, you realize how fucking useless it all is. Nigel McGuinness sounds like he's good, but the rest of the people -- and I know people like Renee and Corey -- are just fucking abysmal. It detracts from the story they are telling. They are so broad and obtuse and obvious to the point that they completely gloss over the subtleties of what's actually happening when people are out there and know what they are doing.

I'm happy for Charlotte -- I really am. The Becky "heel turn" hurt her position as a face. Charlotte came off like a star, but people just don't want to cheer her over Becky. They kind of jeopardized the perception of the Ronda/Charlotte match they had planned by doing it. I'm a little fatigued by all the heel turns every week. We've had Gargano, Ambrose, Bryan, Charlotte, Becky -- it's all just very arbitrary. She looked like a beast though. I do worry that this is further planning to subterfuge Becky though. Never bought Becky vs. Ronda being the big plan. I wonder if they are trying to make Charlotte "bad-ass" so they can make Becky "good girl" and fuck around with that?

[Mr. Nerfect]

My big problem with the elimination matches is that when you make the teams faces and heels, you load them up with big names, so it's possible for someone to look goofy by going early. You've got a lot of losers in that match.

I'm not that bummed out by Joe going first. He's a pro. He knows what his role in the company is. There is buzz he is hurt, so if they're taking it easy on him, then it's a testament to his skill that they trust him to work that way. They also seem to be "killing him off" as a heel. He couldn't win the belt, he couldn't beat Jeff Hardy -- I feel like they might turn him face soon and that his losses and just to get him pissed off and focused, in storylines. Or maybe Zelina Vega saves him and he teams with Almas? That would be fun.

But yeah, they're also really high on Drew. If Drew handily taking someone out is good enough for Kurt Angle, I can see Joe reasoning it's good enough for him. He's being a good soldier and he's going to get more opportunities to do so. Not everybody can be pushed as hard as each other all the time. I'm sure he knows the go.

[slik]

Does this mean Noid actually watched the ppv...

[Mr. Nerfect]

No, it means I don't mind Joe going out really quick as much as others seem to. Wtf is wrong with people here? Why can't anyone read?

[Evil Vito]

They’d better be turning Joe face. Aside from one time where AJ got himself DQ’d I think Joe has lost every PPV match he’s had on the main roster.

[#1-norm-fan]

Daniel Bryan is a great human being and possibly my favorite professional wrestler ever. My fucking god, what a masterpiece. And Brock Lesnar is one of the best sellers in professional wrestling. He's beautiful. Bryan's first kick shook him to his core. A chop block and a wrap around the ring post and he is sucked into the agony of the moment. What a fucking genius.

I think this gets lost in all the "Brock is phoning it in" narrative. He's a monster so he doesn't sell like a Seth Rollins is going to. But when he does sell, Goddammit, it's effective. When he's booked in something that isn't a 5 minute squash, he makes the other guy look good simply by shedding his monster shield temporarily.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, Samoa Joe should be a focus of the main event scene. He's a star. And I don't use that word lightly with today's roster.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They’d better be turning Joe face. Aside from one time where AJ got himself DQ’d I think Joe has lost every PPV match he’s had on the main roster.

Everything in WWE is a test. And I think we sometimes lose sight that Vince is very hands-on. Joe might have lost every PPV or whatever, but given he's worked with Brock, Reigns and AJ, I bet he's worked pretty closely with Vince. Sure, plans do change on the fly, but I'm fairly certain Joe would have been under no disillusionment he was winning the belt off anyone.

He'd know his role and what he's out there to do. I do think a face turn is possible, because you've got so many heels on Smackers at the moment. Bryan, Orton, Nakamura, Sullivan has to go somewhere. Joe kind of overlaps some of them into "heel bad-ass" and others into "indy cred heel looking for a push." I feel like they could be burning him out as a heel, because they trust him to make others look great, and then he'll lose it and become a bad-ass babyface, because they don't really have many of those.

But maybe not. Either way, Joe's a pro. He's special, but he's special enough to do this sort of stuff. Like, it's not the best use for him in the world, but they trust him to do this stuff. Vince knows how good he is.

I think this gets lost in all the "Brock is phoning it in" narrative. He's a monster so he doesn't sell like a Seth Rollins is going to. But when he does sell, Goddammit, it's effective. When he's booked in something that isn't a 5 minute squash, he makes the other guy look good simply by shedding his monster shield temporarily.

I think you're spot-on. I think we'd both agree that he shouldn't be selling like a mug constantly, but I think fans want to see him go 50/50 with people all the time, not realizing how it makes it special when he does.

But my god, when he does it he is so good. He took the best Yes Kicks in the entire history of Bryan giving out that move. He was rolling around there like he was legit trying to get out from underneath.

Also, Samoa Joe should be a focus of the main event scene. He's a star. And I don't use that word lightly with today's roster.

Agreed. He's got presence and charisma. One of the best promos in the company. He gets to be more direct. He comes off like a real bad-ass. One of the few "complete packages" they've got. I'd say AJ Styles, John Cena, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar and Randy Orton are the only real ones they've got. Very different degrees and styles to them though.

[#1-norm-fan]

I thought you would throw Seth Rollins in with that group. While I'm pleasantly surprised you didn't, I'm also curious why you put Styles in over him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Seth's funny with me. In the ring, he's obviously very good, and I always think "Oh, Seth's in there, that would be a good match," but he does shit that annoys the fuck out of me too. Like the buckle bomb and some of his dives seem really careless and make me cringe, which take me out of the match. But I also hate his superplex into the Falcon Arrow that never beats anyone. And when he was doing the Pedigree that looked shitty, but that's just petty.

On the mic, I've actually enjoyed some of his work. He gets a rep for being shit, but I think he knows what makes a good promo, then he's just scripted to fuck. His delivery is "fine." His acting is pretty bad and I don't feel he projects a star quality despite being comfortable.

Seth is kind of a perfect example to me of "B+". If you asked me to think of a B+ wrestler, he's probably where my mind goes to. He's "very good," but he's missing these crucial things. Plus, I get the feeling that he really wants to be Hiroshi Tanahashi. It's not bad to have influences and even wear them on your sleeve a little bit, but I really get the feeling that his dream is to be someone else in New Japan.

I know you're not as high on AJ Styles as me, but to me Styles just brings more psychology to the things he does. The way he bumps seems more organic too. I live and die with the guy a lot more than I do Seth. I feel like he's always had this "X-Factor" about him, even since TNA. I was never a fanboy or anything, but he just seems like the sort of wrestler the people I know who used to like wrestling would think is "cool." He fits that Rey Mysterio/Jeff Hardy/Rob Van Dam mold, but then he's grown and developed into this guy that reminds me of a Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart.

And I like him on the mic. He's not outstanding like Dusty Rhodes or The Rock or anything, but he's so confident in himself that he sounds comfortable with the script he's got, and he doesn't sound nearly as fake as so many other guys who really try to force these odd emotions out -- see Seth Rollins on Raw. I believe Styles a lot more, or it at least bothers me less that I don't.

I don't think he's the tippy-top guy. Maybe it's his size or just how his charisma works, but I do consider him a much better overall worker than Seth Rollins. And Styles has been doing it for much longer, so it could just be experience. But Styles feels more grown into himself to me.

[Loose Cannon]

they really do script the fuck out of Seth Rollins and it comes off so bad. case in point, go back and watch his Survivor Series promo and then watch Charlotte's, who was right after I believe. it was night and day. he's a great worker and i do typically enjoy all his matches, but please just let him do his own thing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've liked exactly one Seth Rollins promo. He put over how good Dean Ambrose was on an episode of SmackDown, but that he was better (this was when they were feuding). I can't remember the exact verbiage, but it was psychologically sound and got me pumped to see their personalities clash. I always just assumed it slipped through on SmackDown because that seems like a show they'd pay less attention to.