RAW -- 11.19.18 -- Official Thread

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nattie is so beautiful and so good in the ring, but they make her cry and no one cares.

[RP]

Liv Morgan can wipe he butt with my face.

[Jordan]

What is the main event of this show?

[slik]

Maybe Brock will show up or something

idk

[Mr. Nerfect]

So much disrespect around death or potential death on this show.

[Savio]

Seth will sneak Dean in the main.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What is the main event of this show?

This will be the wrestling main event, but Ambrose will cut a promo now that he thinks Seth is gone and that will close the show.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've heard good things about Ruby, but this is a bad match.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Best thing about her has been the asymmetrical ring attire and coming out with Liv Morgan.

[My Final Heaven]

I've heard good things about Ruby, but this is a bad match.

Ruby def doesn't live up to the hype. It's one of those things where it's vogue to talk up how great she is in comment sections, when she's just... mediocre, but has a push.

[slik]

sort of feel like 'mostly nothing' has happened

Takeover/Survivor Series were good tho

[Triple A]

These shows are constructed all weird. The main event stuff happens earlier instead of the show building.

I think it's because they know the third hour always gets the lowest ratings, so they started putting the "good" stuff in the first two hours... then it became a self-fulfilling thing

[Savio]

"This is what Ruby likes to do, pick apart her opponent, find a weakness, and then exploit it"


Yeah no shit

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, Nattie: "Bitch!"

[Mr. Nerfect]

"This is what Ruby likes to do, pick apart her opponent, find a weakness, and then exploit it"


Yeah no shit

The commentary for this company is so bad. I can't believe how bad it is.

[RP]

Shattered elbow lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

What the fuck is with these pointless stories?

[slik]

'Local Medical Facility'

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh yes, because I wanted to see this again. Fuck off!

[Savio]

What if Dean wasn't head out to the ring? Would the show just end now?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hahaha, how did Cole and Graves not crack up?

[Mr. Nerfect]

What if Dean wasn't head out to the ring? Would the show just end now?

It's just entertainment, Savio. Don't think about it like it's supposed to make sense.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why the fuck do they think that Thanksgiving Feast Fight is going to draw people in?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Like, everybody here knew exactly what was going to happen when Seth faked going home. How the fuck is Dean falling for this making him look like anything other than a complete and utter goof?

[RP]

That smell is Nia Jax taking a shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

"This is so surprising." Fuck you, Cole. No one can trust these announcers.

[Savio]

"LA sucks, just like the Lakers"

*booooooooooooo*

[Mr. Nerfect]

Isn't this the exact same promo Seth Rollins cut when he turned on The Shield?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ambrose is trying his little heart out here. Bless. The booking doesn't support you, Dean.

[KIRA]

Hey they said no overrun they have 60 seconds well less

[GD]

lol what was Dean Ambrose thinking?

Also, have not we had enough suicide drive in this lifetime?

[Mr. Nerfect]

These guys bought their jeans at the same place. True brothers.

[GD]

lol low blows are all the rage in 2018

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ambrose is starting to resemble one of my friends.

[KIRA]

They're going to have to start doing the WCW Nitro we're out of time folks outro

[Mr. Nerfect]

That was a hard watch. A real hard watch. The only people I would rate are Ronda Rousey and Daniel Bryan, and Daniel Bryan was shown in recaps.

[KIRA]

So raw was just a whole lot of nothing

[BigCrippyZ]

They're going to have to start doing the WCW Nitro we're out of time folks outro

Might as well. It seems like, with rare exception, they're already copying or doing very similar shitty things that WCW did.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This company is so phony. They want to get heat, but no one takes anything any of these geeks does seriously. The commentary is awful and hokey. Very little works. Ambrose is trying so hard, but they are involved in the same fake camera angles, artificial, call each other childish names, rigmarole as everyone else.

I won't be back next week. I can't do this again. I might track down Ronda Rousey segments on YouTube.

[Mr. Nerfect]

So raw was just a whole lot of nothing

Braun got his elbow shattered, Dean Ambrose beat up Seth Rollins and made fun of Roman's cancer and LA, Nattie got a "measure of revenge" for what The Riott Squad have put her through and Ronda Rousey showed excellent fire. Those things happened. The stories coming out are that Braun is hurt and Ambrose got something over Seth. Ronda likes to fight.

I don't know how they can do so little with so much time. Well, I do -- less is more. But so much of this is bad, boring or just a waste of time. It's fucking fluff. The whole show is fluff. Almost everything on it. Ronda being a bad-ass was still fluff.

Absolutely nothing happened with the Raw sweep. I missed the opening segment or whatever, so I'm not sure if Stephanie danced like I predicted, but it was mentioned a lot, but what it means didn't matter.

I wish I knew exactly where this company fell off a cliff, because this was really bad. Was it 2015? I remember that's when I just couldn't do it anymore. I feel like it's been awful forever though.

This company doesn't get the basic conventions of telling stories. They don't get wrestling. They don't get heat. They don't get promos or how angles are supposed to work. Nothing matters, and they've done that to themselves. The storylines are so predictable. Not that being predictable is a bad thing, but who doesn't think Braun is going to come back and kill Corbin? Who didn't know Seth would show up in the main event segment? And they act like it's cutting edge, and even the most intellectually challenged viewer would have to know they are full of shit.

They don't care. They don't try. If this is effort, none of the writers and none of the production team should ever work again. People praise their production, and it is elaborate in some ways, but it's absolutely horseshit in others. So many gaps in logic, and guys walking around with cameras in their face as they are looking for blood is one of my biggest pet peeves about modern wrestling. The acceptance that this is all scripted fucking nonsense. How are Seth and Dean supposed to have a serious feud with Seth walking around going "Where are you, Dean?" and cameras pulling back from his face as he approaches and ignores them?

Ugh, this show sucks. I guess I should re-state I enjoyed Ronda's work. Best part of the actual show by a country mile. All these people have been at it for quite a while and yet she shows up and is already the best at even the gentrified entertainment part within a few months.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm not mad I wasted the time, or sad. I'm deflated. I'm going outside to have a cold drink, enjoy the summer and...never think about this show again.

[Splaya]

Nous will be back next week. He thinks we need his 2000 word posts dissecting RAW when in all reality nobody gives a shit

[#1-norm-fan]

Enzo not wearing a disguise to sneak in and cut his promo again is unacceptable.

[#1-norm-fan]

He needs to travel to wherever Raw/ the weekly PPV is and do it every week. Viral promotion for his shit music.

[Stickman]

These shows are constructed all weird. The main event stuff happens earlier instead of the show building.

Yeah this has really bothered me for the last year or so. The shows typically don’t build towards the main event anymore. I find the closing segment tends to be anti climatic. Any time there is a disagreement in the opening promo that match is almost always next. So it’s like, here is 10 mins of talking to build the match, but we will just roll that over into the next segment, commercial, and the next segment, commercial, next segment with the match ending, commercial, recap. It’s like the first 45 mins is about one feud so it’s hard to stay hooked for the main event so they don’t even try anymore for the main events

[Tom Guycott]

nah WWE is too gutless to have the women casually face the men like they do in Lucha Underground despite the fact that I think fans would really go for it

Fans, yes. Shareholders and sponsors, not so much.

[Tom Guycott]

He needs to travel to wherever Raw/ the weekly PPV is and do it every week. Viral promotion for his shit music.

The RAW CONSENSUAL PENIS tour

[Evil Vito]

I wish I knew exactly where this company fell off a cliff, because this was really bad. Was it 2015? I remember that's when I just couldn't do it anymore. I feel like it's been awful forever though.

I can only speak to my own opinion, but I generally view Raw 1000 (July 2012) as something of a turning point for me.

By then, I had already stopped watching SmackDown. Once the initial brand split ended, the show felt entirely pointless. I remember there was a stretch where any good match on SmackDown would just get run again on Raw, so there was no need to ever tune in for it.

So I only watched Raw. There was still a whole ton of shit going on, but there were good things too (Punk, Bryan's descent into madness, Ryback looking like he could be a big deal), and the good things were enough to keep me tuning in.

Raw 1000 was pretty damn lame, even by nostalgia show standards. But the bigger thing is that's when they announced that they were moving Raw to three hours full-time and that was just so deflating for me. I still had the show on most weeks but spent 90% of it with my back turned as I was on the computer and stuff.

Various points between 2014-16 I stopped watching entirely. When the brand split came back I decided to give the company a chance. I actually watched both shows intently for several months and found myself really enjoying most of it. But by the end of the year I was right back to being indifferent about Raw.

[slik]

update on braun's injury in news/rumors thread


RAW has been 'pretty bad' for about two years now imo, with a few exceptional episodes every now and then. The most recent 'superstar shakeup' made it incredibly noticeable.

[Loose Cannon]

Braun got his elbow shattered, Dean Ambrose beat up Seth Rollins and made fun of Roman's cancer and LA, Nattie got a "measure of revenge" for what The Riott Squad have put her through and Ronda Rousey showed excellent fire. Those things happened. The stories coming out are that Braun is hurt and Ambrose got something over Seth. Ronda likes to fight.

I don't know how they can do so little with so much time. Well, I do -- less is more. But so much of this is bad, boring or just a waste of time. It's fucking fluff. The whole show is fluff. Almost everything on it. Ronda being a bad-ass was still fluff.

Absolutely nothing happened with the Raw sweep. I missed the opening segment or whatever, so I'm not sure if Stephanie danced like I predicted, but it was mentioned a lot, but what it means didn't matter.

I wish I knew exactly where this company fell off a cliff, because this was really bad. Was it 2015? I remember that's when I just couldn't do it anymore. I feel like it's been awful forever though.

This company doesn't get the basic conventions of telling stories. They don't get wrestling. They don't get heat. They don't get promos or how angles are supposed to work. Nothing matters, and they've done that to themselves. The storylines are so predictable. Not that being predictable is a bad thing, but who doesn't think Braun is going to come back and kill Corbin? Who didn't know Seth would show up in the main event segment? And they act like it's cutting edge, and even the most intellectually challenged viewer would have to know they are full of shit.

They don't care. They don't try. If this is effort, none of the writers and none of the production team should ever work again. People praise their production, and it is elaborate in some ways, but it's absolutely horseshit in others. So many gaps in logic, and guys walking around with cameras in their face as they are looking for blood is one of my biggest pet peeves about modern wrestling. The acceptance that this is all scripted fucking nonsense. How are Seth and Dean supposed to have a serious feud with Seth walking around going "Where are you, Dean?" and cameras pulling back from his face as he approaches and ignores them?

Ugh, this show sucks. I guess I should re-state I enjoyed Ronda's work. Best part of the actual show by a country mile. All these people have been at it for quite a while and yet she shows up and is already the best at even the gentrified entertainment part within a few months.


Agreed. it's so difficult to watch these guys cut promos and i know it's the writers for the most part. they give them the corniest shit to say. I feel like Ronda goes out there and does it in her own words and surprise surprise it comes off so much better.

The wrestling is always going to be good. the workers overall are the best the company has ever had. but everything else involved in putting on a good show is really bad. Like the whole Bobby Roode and Chad Gable laughing at the AOP's manager for saying You're in (urine). Like why ????

[Big Vic]

Maybe with the Raw sweep Shane turns heel tonight?.... who knows probably will suck.

[Simple Fan]

Feel like the Raw sweep that really wasn't a sweep will be what they use to turn Smackdown into the sports oriented show that Fox wants.

[Sixx]

Was Strowman injury legit or is it kayfabe?

[Cool King]

I can only speak to my own opinion, but I generally view Raw 1000 (July 2012) as something of a turning point for me.

By then, I had already stopped watching SmackDown. Once the initial brand split ended, the show felt entirely pointless. I remember there was a stretch where any good match on SmackDown would just get run again on Raw, so there was no need to ever tune in for it.

So I only watched Raw. There was still a whole ton of shit going on, but there were good things too (Punk, Bryan's descent into madness, Ryback looking like he could be a big deal), and the good things were enough to keep me tuning in.

Raw 1000 was pretty damn lame, even by nostalgia show standards. But the bigger thing is that's when they announced that they were moving Raw to three hours full-time and that was just so deflating for me. I still had the show on most weeks but spent 90% of it with my back turned as I was on the computer and stuff.

Various points between 2014-16 I stopped watching entirely. When the brand split came back I decided to give the company a chance. I actually watched both shows intently for several months and found myself really enjoying most of it. But by the end of the year I was right back to being indifferent about Raw.

This is pretty much me.

[Cool King]

Also, who's idea was it to have a segment about the California wildfires and then cut to a man wearing a T-Shirt with "Burn It Down" on it?

[Sixx]

Also, who's idea was it to have a segment about the California wildfires and then cut to a man wearing a T-Shirt with "Burn It Down" on it?

Haaaa, nice.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nous will be back next week. He thinks we need his 2000 word posts dissecting RAW when in all reality nobody gives a shit

Haha, I haven't watched a full Raw in over a year, probably longer. Nice try though. Are you salty because I shut you down in the NXT thread?

By the way, people have replied to me and are engaging in the conversation, so in all reality, you are full shit. :kiss:

Yeah this has really bothered me for the last year or so. The shows typically don’t build towards the main event anymore. I find the closing segment tends to be anti climatic. Any time there is a disagreement in the opening promo that match is almost always next. So it’s like, here is 10 mins of talking to build the match, but we will just roll that over into the next segment, commercial, and the next segment, commercial, next segment with the match ending, commercial, recap. It’s like the first 45 mins is about one feud so it’s hard to stay hooked for the main event so they don’t even try anymore for the main events

I was just thinking about how much I hate Raw opening segments. They are such bad television, objectively. I came in late to this one, so I didn't see it, but they set up shit that they could seriously just set up with a screen. "Six-man tag tonight." Michael Cole could let us know on commentary that Braun Strowman won at Survivor Series so now he's got a match with Baron Corbin at TLC.

Why do you need Stephanie McMahon walking out to the ring to cut an entirely redundant promo? So much on this show is redundant. I'm not talking about just filler or fluff, but I mean it's actually redundant.

I can only speak to my own opinion, but I generally view Raw 1000 (July 2012) as something of a turning point for me.

By then, I had already stopped watching SmackDown. Once the initial brand split ended, the show felt entirely pointless. I remember there was a stretch where any good match on SmackDown would just get run again on Raw, so there was no need to ever tune in for it.

So I only watched Raw. There was still a whole ton of shit going on, but there were good things too (Punk, Bryan's descent into madness, Ryback looking like he could be a big deal), and the good things were enough to keep me tuning in.

Raw 1000 was pretty damn lame, even by nostalgia show standards. But the bigger thing is that's when they announced that they were moving Raw to three hours full-time and that was just so deflating for me. I still had the show on most weeks but spent 90% of it with my back turned as I was on the computer and stuff.

Various points between 2014-16 I stopped watching entirely. When the brand split came back I decided to give the company a chance. I actually watched both shows intently for several months and found myself really enjoying most of it. But by the end of the year I was right back to being indifferent about Raw.

I remember being down on the product around then. I watched, I can't remember how religiously, but I remember the Punk/Heyman alliance was kind of...not all I wanted to pretend it was. The Shield really gave things a shot in the arm, from memory. And then you had the rise of Bryan.

The 2015 Royal Rumble was a huge choke-point for me too. That happened and I was just like "Fuuuuck this company," and I have never really truly forgiven them for that. I feel like I've secretly been down on the company for ages though. I guess it's all been downhill since the Attitude era, with minor spikes of personal enjoyment here and there.

But I wonder where it got really bad. Like, this Raw is so much different from the Raws even a few years ago. It has gotten really sterile.

update on braun's injury in news/rumors thread


RAW has been 'pretty bad' for about two years now imo, with a few exceptional episodes every now and then. The most recent 'superstar shakeup' made it incredibly noticeable.

Interesting. This makes me wonder if I missed the real point where it went from "eh" to "whoa, what the fuck is this?". Seriously, to anyone who wouldn't mind giving it a try, if you stop watching for a while and then come back, it's really jarring and eerie how fucking weird it is watching Raw. Everyone is like a puppet dancing for Vince.

Agreed. it's so difficult to watch these guys cut promos and i know it's the writers for the most part. they give them the corniest shit to say. I feel like Ronda goes out there and does it in her own words and surprise surprise it comes off so much better.

The wrestling is always going to be good. the workers overall are the best the company has ever had. but everything else involved in putting on a good show is really bad. Like the whole Bobby Roode and Chad Gable laughing at the AOP's manager for saying You're in (urine). Like why ????

Behind the writers is the philosophy of the company. I don't understand it, but I guess they think they are legitimate entertainment and want SAGs and Emmys and shit. They want that complete control for whatever reason. No one sounds like a real person and no one seems comfortable though. I don't know how anyone can see people acting like this and not be creeped out.

I disagree on the wrestling, but I think we just look for different things. I personally find it very routine and inorganic. Mechanical and cold. Everyone seems to try and do the same things as everyone else instead of doing things that makes them stand out. Like, they have different moves, but the moves fit into matches in the exact same way. I feel like it lacks genuine fight psychology and therefore emotion is rarely wrenched out, and disbelief is never really suspended.

That "comedy" was just fucking awful. The whole "reality" behind the show is below grade school in terms of maturity. Just because you are aiming at kids doesn't mean you have to have your adult performers act like the stupidest most sheltered ones. Do they really think kids are going to think jokes about how "bladder" sounds like "better" (which it doesn't) is going to hook them?

This is a company that hates kids. You see this in dumb-ass movies like Beverly Hills Chihuahua or whatever. They think you can shit on the floor and go "poooooop!" and kids will laugh and laugh and laugh and beg their parents to take them to see more. They don't appreciate that kids can appreciate good content too.

Feel like the Raw sweep that really wasn't a sweep will be what they use to turn Smackdown into the sports oriented show that Fox wants.

I was thinking that myself. I definitely think that it's a way of "resetting" the show. Not in a "strip everyone of the belts" way, but to bring about some kayfabe and maybe even some presentation changes if they want to go that far. I'm suspicious they will though. FOX knows what they bought.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't mind the Raw sweep if it's part of a storyline "reset" for Fox. But knowing WWE, it will just be a way to get Shane to turn heel and nothing else will come from it. And then we'll be left to think "Wait... the Smackdown roster is still the same as it was when Shane was a face. Nothing has changed. So... it's still just an inferior brand right? And we needed this point to be driven home to make Shane McMahon a heel?"

[#1-norm-fan]

I feel like all of this, from Shane winning a tournament to crown the best wrestler in the world to Smackdown being Raw's bitch, is just a way to make Shane the next Vince. In which case, I have so many problems with that as far as storytelling.

[Savio]

The only SD superstar that needed the win was Shin, have Ambroses theme hit then Seth gets rolled up. I would trade him winning over the SDL winning the tag match.

If shane goes heel he could have given Shin a lot of praises.

[#1-norm-fan]

Does anyone like Nakamura in his current state? Seems like all I hear from the IWC (which is the only group I can see getting any joy out of him at this point) is that he isn't what he used to be.

[Savio]

I think he's fine, he's better as a heel. He just deserves to be treated better since he is holding the US title

[Mr. Nerfect]

I adore what I've seen from Nakamura. He's not strong-styling the fuck out of everyone, but he's working a different style. It's a smarter style and a safer style, and I can see it really appealing to Vince. His psychology in the matches I've seen against AJ Styles impressed the fuck out of me, considering Japanese wrestling is somewhat known for throwing it out because they suck it up and just beat the shit out of each other.

I haven't seen any of the recent angles or matches involving him. He's apparently doing some "Nakamerica" thing? That sounds whatever. But generally I think he's doing way better at what he intends to do than people think he is.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't mind the Raw sweep if it's part of a storyline "reset" for Fox. But knowing WWE, it will just be a way to get Shane to turn heel and nothing else will come from it. And then we'll be left to think "Wait... the Smackdown roster is still the same as it was when Shane was a face. Nothing has changed. So... it's still just an inferior brand right? And we needed this point to be driven home to make Shane McMahon a heel?"

If it gets that far. Shane could seriously just brush it off with a promo. "Well, SmackDown had a bad night on Sunday, but sometimes you've just got to get up and dust yourself off..."

[Mr. Nerfect]

Re: Nakamura:

I'm curious to see what happens if he re-signs. I think he will, but it didn't really make sense to go full-force with him earlier this year, given that his contract is coming up in January or something. Styles signed at the same time and his is April though. But anyway, I think that first cycle is coming to an end, so it didn't really make sense to go with Nakamura winning the Royal Rumble and then the belt at WrestleMania and get this massive babyface push if he is going to be back in Japan in time for Wrestle Kingdom 14.

He had a year in NXT to get his family settled, into school, get used to American life, etc. He then had a year to get used to the road and being away from them probably more than he ever has. And now he's in his final year of "let's see whether you and your family want to stay." It could be a "thank you for everything, Vince, but we've got to go back to Japan," "cool, no hard feelings, thanks for giving us a shot" thing. Or maybe Nakamura re-signs for three years and gets a really hard push?

I don't think they look down on him or anything. They gave him that Rumble as a sign of good faith. They want him to be something. Vince wouldn't give him eighteen matches against AJ Styles if he didn't enjoy them. And the two I saw were really fucking good. They've given him the US Title, I think, as a further "good faith" gift and a way of saying "we want you" without pushing the guy front and center of the entire promotion. He does seem to be a part of a lot of their marketing and such too.

I'm curious to see what happens with him in 2019 more so than the next few months.

[Sixx]

So can anyone tell me whether Braun's injury is real or kayfabe?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Apparently it's real. Not sure though. Honestly thought it was just an excuse to have Brock beat him with the Kimura in a few months.

[Triple A]

So can anyone tell me whether Braun's injury is real or kayfabe?

It was an angle done to cover for a real elbow issue... He is getting surgery to remove "bone spurs" but might still be back by TLC and def by the Royal Rumble

https://www.tpww.net/2018/11/braun-strowman-set-to-undergo-surgery-for-legit-elbow-issue/

[Sixx]

Cheers.