89% of the people that participated in a poll said...

[YOUR Hero]

Ken Griffey if he retired today should go into the hall of fame.

Do you agree with this?

Personally I say he should not. To me you need to be a champion at least once or put up huge numbers forever.

Now I do conceed he could become a hall of famer, but pointing out he has 493 HR's in his career isn't a big enough deal, especially in today's league.

[MTR]

He is not HOF material if he retires now. He could be but not if he retires now.

[DaveWadding]

Griffey put up huge numbers in Seattle until he got traded...they suddenly he became a total gimp.

[The Outlaw]

Griffey put up huge numbers in Seattle until he got traded...they suddenly he became a total gimp.

Pretty much

If he can stay healthy for a few more years and put up good/great numbers, my opinion would probably change but as of now no

[Dragon]

I dunno, if he stayed how he was in Seattle, and put up those numbers still I would say yes. But I wouldn't say yes right now.

[Ben]

If he'd kept putting up Seattle-like numbers, he'd be a shoo-in for Coopersville... And he'd be fast approaching 700 HRs...

But right now I'm not sure... There were a ton of great hitters in the 90s, and where's the cutoff point? If Palmeiro, McGriff and Griffey get in the Hall, does Bagwell? Biggio? Larkin, Alomar, Manny, Kent, Thome? Some of these guys won't get in, and I'm not sure if Griffey deserves to be one of the few who does...

[The Miz]

If he retired today, I guess not. But as soon as he hits 7 more home runs hes a lock. No way they'll keep a 500 HR hitter out. Especially when it's a player with more than one tool than power hitting, unlike say Jose Canseco or Dave Kingman.

[YOUR Hero]

I just feel that 500 HRs isn't what it used to be. That alone shouldn't be an automatic bye into the hall of fame.

[Ben]

Yeah, but most of the guys who are at or near 500 have had other redeeming qualities, like MVPs or Gold Gloves or leading their league in HRs... I think McGriff, Palmeiro, Griffey and Bagwell are all potential HOFers...

[PureHatred]

500 HR doesn't mean a thing at this point. Fred McGriff isnt a HOF'er. Palmeiro is borderline. Hell, even Frank Thomas is considered boorderline, and he was doing things his first 7 years that only Babe Ruth and Jimmy Foxx had done before him.

Ken Griffey Jr needs at least 5 more productive years to be serious HOF material. I hope he does it, mainly because I have tons of his rookie cards.

[YOUR Hero]

Do you guys think Canseco is a Hall of Famer? To me this is a bit muddy.. He was the first 40/40 guy ever, he won 1 or 2 championships, but people associate him as a tool.

[The Outlaw]

Tool or no tool, I thought he was pretty amazing during his early years

But after everything he achieved he will be known as having a homerun bounced off his noggin :lol:

[YOUR Hero]

He lost his groove right after he hurt himself pitching in a blow out game. IMO he was never the same again.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah I remember that.

Stupid move

[DaveWadding]

While we're talking HOFers...

WHEN Unit makes it into the Hall, what hat should they use?

a) Mariners
b) Astros
c) D'Backs

[PureHatred]

Canseco never had one decent full seaso after he left Oakland. Tool or no tool, his career numbers aren't HOF caliber.

The Unit should go in as a Diamondback. He won his title there. And his performance in the WS, where he shut down the Yankees in Game 6 then came back to pitch shut-out relief in game 7, is nothing short of epic. That right there, along with Jack Morris' 10 inning shut out of the Braves in 90 (91?) is the very definition of the term "ace."

[Loose Cannon]

Ok, First I'll start with Canseco. No fk'n Way. He's not even close. First, just look at the .266 batting average. That's a really low average for the HOF. He hasn't hit 500 homers, so having an avaerage that low again kills him. His OBP is not that great and he doesn't even have 2000 hits. He's got no chance at all. Yeah, he did win Championships, but that doesn't get you into the Hall of Fame.

On Griffey, he's in. If he stopped right know, he has a .294 career lifetime batting avaerage and 493 homers. You know what, let's just say he has 500 homers. That right there will probably get him in. There are a plentiful of guys that hit 500 homers and have below .280 batting averages and are HOF'ers. And you can't say that 500 doesn't matter that much anymore because it's still very tough to get there. I expect McGwire to get in and he has like a .260 career average and a ton of strikeouts. And McGwire doesn't even have 2000 hits. Griffey has over 2000 already. Griffey has a great SLG % and a decent OBP %. He's won a ton of Gold Gloves too. And just by taking a quick look at another HOF'ers RBI's, Roberto Clemenete played for 18 seasons and had 1,305 RBI's. Griffey has played for 15 seasons (but has been injured a lot, so it's not really 15) and he has 1384. I mean that says something right there. So, yeah Griffey is going in.

[DaveWadding]

Yeah, but Mac SHATTERED one of the longest standing records in MLB history.

[Loose Cannon]

^^Yeah, I know. I said he was going in and that will also help him. If you look at McGuire's #'s, they don't really seem like HOF #'s, except for the homers and the SLG %. But he really put interest back into baseball in the late 90's and was sort of an icon. That will only help him when he gets his bid for Cooperstown. And so far, everyone who has hit 500 homers has gone into the HOF. I'd expect this to continue.

[Ben]

I'd say McGriff is a HOFer... He was consistently a good hitter for 15+ years...

What about Edgar? HOF material? Should DHs be allowed in?

[DaveWadding]

They let Paul Molitor in...

[Loose Cannon]

Molitar had 3000 hits. That's an instant pass.

[DaveWadding]

He asked if they should let DHs in..

[Loose Cannon]

Oh yeah, definately Martinez is going in. I mean his hitting #'s are top of the class. Yeah he didn't play the field, but he's done enough in hitting to make up for that. And I'm all for anybody who plays for the same team his whole career.

[Ben]

Amen, man. Especially when they play for my M's. :y:

[PureHatred]

I'd say McGriff is a HOFer... He was consistently a good hitter for 15+ years...

What about Edgar? HOF material? Should DHs be allowed in?

Seriously, I hate this attitude. Being 'consistently good' ins't HOF qualifications. He had a great career, but being in the baseball HOF should mean that you are a dominant player and at some point in time one of the elite players in the league at your position. McGriff was only an All-Star five times. Most of the time, he was only the third or fourth best player on his own team.

The HOF isn't about being good. It's about being great.

And Molitor spent the first 12 years of his career playoing primarily third base. If Edgar Martinez gets in, and I don't think he will because many of the voters are old school writers who hate the DH, he'll be the first true DH in the HOF.

[YOUR Hero]

I was going to say that Molitor's carreer was at 2nd and 3rd base before he was a DH. PH beat me to it.

PH is right about a HoFamer needing to be a dominant player for huge spans of their career although with McGwire, his HR explosion for a moment in time will most likely get him in the Hall.

[Loose Cannon]

BTW, have you guys ever been to Cooperstown? Man, for me, it's like one of the greatest places on earth.

[DaveWadding]

No...I wish.

[YOUR Hero]

Nope, but been to the hockey hall of fame, for me, for Canadians, that's THE PLACE.

[BCWWF]

Which hockey hall of fame is in Evelith, Minnesota?

[YOUR Hero]

The NHL Hockey hall of fame is in downtown Toronto. Awesome place. I took so many pictures of things there.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Piazza's definately in, more HRs then any other catcher in history.

And a prediction: In some way, shape, or form: Jose Reyes will be a HOF'er when his career is over</font>

[The Miz]

<font color=goldenrod>Piazza's definately in</font>


:|

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Griffey will get in. He has more than just hitting. He did win a gold glove 10 years in a row

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeah I think Griffey is in

He has a few bad injury riddled seasons the last few years but before that he was amazing

[YOUR Hero]

Griffey will get in. He has more than just hitting. He did win a gold glove 10 years in a row

I agree, but that's not really what the debate is. It's if he stopped playing right now, would his #'s be enough to get in. As they stand right now.

[Bull]

i don't know if he should be automatically put into the hall of fame. He is one hell of a player, but I think he played his best a few years ago. He is starting to get his edge back, but for a while he lost it. I think he is a good contender for the hall of fame, but not a guarentee.


I still say Pete Rose should be in the hall.

[John la Rock]

Yes for sure Griffey should be in the hall of fame.

He has almost 500 homeruns, a 10 time all star (at least), multi-time Gold Glove winner, and so on.

Even though his best days are behind him I think he is a lock for the hall :y:

[BCWWF]

There was a similar debate about that running back from Denvers Super Bowl teams (I forget his name right now), and IMO Griffey is far more qualified than he would be.

[BCWWF]

Terrell Davis*

[DaveWadding]

Terrell Davis?

[DaveWadding]

SHUT THE FUCK UP :rant:

[The Miz]

Terrell Davis should not be in the hall of fame.

[BCWWF]

Personally I don't think so too, but its kind of the same situation as this.

[PureHatred]

It's not even fucking close. Terrell Davis put up numbers for four years. Griffey put up numbers for 10.

And after he retired, Denver produced three more running backs with huge numbers, so it's hard to even say how much of that was Davis and how much was the system.

Christ...:nono:

[BCWWF]

I don't know if that is supposed to be flaming me? But this same topic was in here a few months ago, but change Ken Griffey Jr. with Terrell Davis. I was just saying that compared to Davis, Griffey is a shoe in. And I do know that baseball is harder to get in than football, I was just saying...

[PureHatred]

I wasn't flaming you.

But those two cases aren't even remotely comparable. You can't seriously say that you look at a guy with four great seasons and make a sensible comparison with a guy who was arguably the best player in his sport for nearly a decade.

[BCWWF]

The reason I said this was that people on TPWW were talking about it, and I was saying that if you're going to even consider Davis, then Griffey would be a shoe-in.

[Excellance of Execution]

If Griffey Jr. gets in the Hall of Fame, then Don Mattingly should get in too. He too was a great player (probably the best of the mid to late 80's), and was hit with the injury bug (bad back). If not for injuries to both players, they would be shoe-in's for the Hall.

[BCWWF]

I don't know stats or anything off my head, but I would assume that Griffey was much more dominant and for a longer time, otherwise Mattingly would already be in this discussion.

[The Outlaw]

Well, mattingly was a 6 time all star, 6 years straight. 9 Gold Gloves. AL MVP in '85?Runner up the year after

He was in the top 3 for batting average from 84-86, then dropped but still was in the top 10 the two years after. Had an above 300 career batting average, averaged 80 RBI's a year, and this is all taken into consideration his injuries.

[VonErich Lives]

Grifeey in the HOF... tough call, I don't care much about now winning a WS... But, can you say for a 5year period he "dominated"... cause his career has been hurt by injuries... Koufax was one of the best for a short time.

That being said, if he stays around and turns it up again... then he's a lock.

[Loose Cannon]

It's going to take a miracle to get Mattingly into the Hall of Fame. Now believe me, I want Mattingly in there more then anyone else. He was my idol growing up and the one sports persona I looked up to. Mattinlgy was the heart and soul of the Yankees when I was a kid. He had some tremendous years in the mid 80's hitting as high as .352 In 1986. He hi higher then .310 FOR FIVE YEARS straight. But, his injuries killed all the momentum he had and his numbers just don't have enough juice on them to put him in the HOF. His 9 GG and six straight AS appearences will not put him through. He only played for 14 seasons and his numbers considerably dropped after the 80's. You definately can make a case that he was the greatest player in the mid 80's, but he had a rough 90's. He has over 2000 hits and a .307 career average which are good numbers. But Mattingly also never won a championship and played on some horrible Yankee teams. It's a tough call with Mattingly also, but I think with the way his votes have dropped off these past few years, he has a slim chance.

BTW: DID YOU KNOW that Mattingly holds the record for most Gran Slams in a single season with 6

[The Outlaw]

Yeah I was a pretty big Mattingly fan, even though I still had a hatred for the Yankees even back then. :love:

[BCWWF]

I stand corrected

[Loose Cannon]

BTW, if there was anybody you can make a case for that belongs in the HOF, it's Carl Mays. I mean go to baseball reference and look at his stats and tell me those aren't HOF #'s. I mean he killed a guy and all, but he threw a curve and Champman didn't move. Not really his fault. I think because of that he never got his chance in Cooperstown.