Cornette Rants about Double or Nothing

[TheFallenOneX]

It's exactly how you expect it to go......


https://art19.com/shows/jim-cornette-experience/episodes/ce72ad4f-48ae-4280-846d-441344324366

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In fairness, he's not the only one to hate everything up until the 3 mains -- they'd be wise to listen to at least some of Jimmy's criticism.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Though just ignore everything he says about Kenny lol

[Jordan]

I'm listening now. I highly doubt there is a show that he would like tbh... he comes of as such a wrestling elitist but I do love listening to him and I do respect him.

His distain for Omega is ludacris, the battle royal did suck and I'm glad he called out Marvez on his performance. He did like a lot about the show but overall his negativity out weighs.

[Jordan]

The worst part is his podcast partner agrees with literally everything Jim says.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Agree with him 100% about XCalibur getting rid of the fucking mask. He looks like such a damned goober.

[Evil Vito]

The stuff he disliked isn't a surprise since he seems to hate everything that isn't decades out of date.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I liked all 3 main events which were all I watched.

Jim's negatives are a bit much but even in the most outlandish critiques, there are some very valid points. However, given the Bucks and Omega are the forefathers of AEW and Cornette despises them, it's going to be tough to get good reviews from him.

[Evil Vito]

I do agree with him on Marvez. He was awful.

Couldn't care less about the optics of Excalibur wearing a mask. He was the best part of commentary.

[Jordan]

I loved the show, I've seen it 3 times actually, not all viewings were as intent as the live show of course... I think the Battle Royal was a really bad idea in retrospect, especially having a top contender come from that lot of ... misfits. Also a really bad way to start the company. The inclusion is great but Cornette was right, the no legs gimmick in a match to determine your top contender... Orange Cassidy.... all of those looong shots, it was a bad idea. Thankfully Moxley didn't debut in that garbage. Plus they busted their own gimmick and had 22 people enter. We didn't need Cutler. I'm already sick of Cutler being there cause he goes back with the Bucks.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I do agree with him on Marvez. He was awful.

Couldn't care less about the optics of Excalibur wearing a mask. He was the best part of commentary.

You should care about the optics. He looks like a fucking twat. I liked a lot of what he was saying though but I don't think when you're trying to establish yourself as a 'sport' centric organization, your color guy should be a gimmick.

[slik]

I don't mind the mask

I 100% agree on Marvez though, if he doesn't shape up on the next few shows I would suggest moving him to a interviewer role alongside Alicia.

Camera work I assume will work itself out over time, I expected some 'growing pains'. I don't agree w/ Cornette on everything but I think his input is valuable and he wants them to do well.

[slik]

I just assume all the EVPs and Tony have rewatched the show repeatedly and taken notes/had meetings about what worked/didn't work

AEW seems well organized on that end is my perception.

[Big Vic]

Jim Cornette has been irrelevant for over a decade.

[Big Vic]

I wonder what "Tank Toland" and "Carmella Decesare" thought about AEW.

[Jordan]

Jim Cornette has been irrelevant for over a decade.

You could argue longer but his podcast has made him relevant in that wrestling fans enjoy listening to his rants about why everything sucks. The thing that's annoying about Jim is that in his critique he slams people for doing the same shit he's done or been apart of. He caught himself on this episode when him and his podcast partner were ripping on a 3 person announce booth then Jim realized he was on a 3 person announce booth for the Crockett Cup and that people like it. There is no black and white right and wrong in pro wrestling, it depends on the moment.

[Evil Vito]

You should care about the optics. He looks like a fucking twat. I liked a lot of what he was saying though but I don't think when you're trying to establish yourself as a 'sport' centric organization, your color guy should be a gimmick.

I don't see him as a gimmick just because he wears a mask. It has no bearing on his commentary ability.

Color commentators in sports are almost always former players of that particular sport. This is no exception.

[Evil Vito]

#MaskedLivesMatter

[Jordan]

I like Excalibur a lot, and I don't mind him in a mask. I think it's cool.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't see him as a gimmick just because he wears a mask. It has no bearing on his commentary ability.

Color commentators in sports are almost always former players of that particular sport. This is no exception.

I get that. But I don't see Tracy McGrady turning up to the commentating booth in his ball gear. And X isn't really enough of a name that it doesn't seem stupid. If it were Rey Misterio I'd get it though still not be overly fond of it. This isn't a knock on his commentating either - I liked him better here than I did at All In. I just hate the presentation.

[Jordan]

Like I really like the cut to the booth and seeing a masked wrestler with a headset, very much what I'd expect in a wrestling comic book or something. AEW brass clearly have a thing for the masked wrestler and it is something that hasn't been used very much since the 80's.

[Nicky Fives]

You could argue longer but his podcast has made him relevant in that wrestling fans enjoy listening to his rants about why everything sucks. The thing that's annoying about Jim is that in his critique he slams people for doing the same shit he's done or been apart of. He caught himself on this episode when him and his podcast partner were ripping on a 3 person announce booth then Jim realized he was on a 3 person announce booth for the Crockett Cup and that people like it. There is no black and white right and wrong in pro wrestling, it depends on the moment.

It wasn't his choice to be on the 3 man booth....I agreed with pretty much everything he said regarding the show, his opinions and dislike are often quite stronger than my own, but that's kinda his thing. The battle royal was absolutely terrible, easily what I hated the most about the show.

[Jordan]

It wasn't his choice to be on the 3 man booth....I agreed with pretty much everything he said regarding the show, his opinions and dislike are often quite stronger than my own, but that's kinda his thing. The battle royal was absolutely terrible, easily what I hated the most about the show.

Do you like The Young Bucks and Kenny? I'd like to see a quick review of your thoughts...

[#1-norm-fan]

The first thing I saw grime AEW was when I tuned into the pre-show and saw Marvez start to speak before getting cut off by Excalibur and then awkwardly stand there looking lost. Laughed out loud. Cornette’s ransom video analogy was spot-on.

[XL]

“Guy Who’s Main Bread & Butter Is Ranting About Wrestling Rants About Wrestling Show Shock”

[#1-norm-fan]

And yeah, considering how AEW pushed wins and losses mattering and putting more focus on the sports aspect and less on the backstage drama, that battle royal was counterproductive from the get-go. They need to decide if they wanna come off as serious or hokey comedy. You can’t do both.

[slik]

I like the Vegas lounge music they used for Double Or Nothing

Anyone else?

[RP]

I thought Jericho looked like shit and it ruined the main event. Dude is getting paid a lot of money. He should be in shape. He looked like Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler.

[Destor]

He's actually actively trying to make his body look like that. I completely agree its a shit look and he should stop but he's literally working to make himself look that way.

[Destor]

He says the rotund barrel gut look traditionally commands respect in Japan and makes getting heat easier in the states.

[Nicky Fives]

Do you like The Young Bucks and Kenny? I'd like to see a quick review of your thoughts...

The Young Bucks are spot monkeys. They will be nothing more. They are a great team and have a spot on my card in the typical "spot monkey" match. One match a card of that style is all I can take.

I'm hit and miss with Omega, but I don't follow independent wrestling as much as I should, but from what I have seen I agree with Cornette more than not. I don't see how he can be a face, he doesn't feel super intimidating and his voice is weird. And this is all coming from a fellow Canadian. The comparison to him and Seth Rollins is laughable.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He says the rotund barrel gut look traditionally commands respect in Japan and makes getting heat easier in the states.

Yeah he's talked about it and I kind of enjoy it.

[Evil Vito]

Next time I take a few weeks off of the gym, I'm going to write it off as I'm gearing up for a New Japan run.

[Destor]

I fucking hate it. Looks like shit and I think a national TV audience will agree.

[Evil Vito]

He's just cultivating mass.

[Fignuts]

As long as he looks better than Kassius Ohno, it won't bother me.

[Destor]

Thats the lowest bar ive ever seen

[Innovator]

FUCK YOUR BEAUTY STANDARDS FIGNUTS

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He's just cultivating mass.

omg lol

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I fucking hate it. Looks like shit and I think a national TV audience will agree.

I do miss jacked Jericho, I'll say that much. But he hasn't had a "great" physique since like 2001.

[Destor]

im not asking great, just dont give me random turd in gear.

When I watch him i feel like he's going to powder and grab some cheese sticks from the gimmick table

[Innovator]

You also can't go as hard as Jericho does at 48 like you did when you were 28 and still look decent. Dude loves himself some alcohol.

[Evil Vito]

I remember in Jericho's second book he mentioned that his switch to trunks in 2008 was mandated by Vince who made a really gay comment about Jericho having great legs.

[Vastardikai]

Corny put MJF over huge.

[Triple A]

What's the basic rundown of the guys he hates and the guys he likes...

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, that was a bit much. I like MJF. He's a great heel and he stood out as a star in that battle royal. I think Cornette literally said he's one of the best in the business though. which seemed like overkill. I'd chalk it up to him putting over an MLW guy but he shits on Jimmy Havoc freely so I don't know.

[#1-norm-fan]

What's the basic rundown of the guys he hates and the guys he likes...

He made a point to say Trent has potential but seems to think the rest of the guys in that tag match were shit. He praised Moxley, too. Said when he saw him in WWE he came off as a guy who didn't care but he came off totally different at the end of the show.

Other than those two and the obvious (Cody, Dustin and Jericho), I'm blanking on who else he seemed to like.

[RP]

What's the basic rundown of the guys he hates and the guys he likes...

He thinks MJF is amazing and the future. I agree. He hates Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks. More Omega though. Sounds personal with all.

Hated the announcer crew with the exception of Ross.

[#1-norm-fan]

He actually seemed to like Excalibur as an announcer, too but just hated the mask and name.

[Evil Vito]

JR was okay but clearly didn't know half the guys he was watching.

Cornette won't say anything bad about his friend though.

[RP]

He nit picks at everything and some cases he is right on, others its like " dude get a grip ".

[Evil Vito]

Cornette's always gonna nitpick everything that isn't booked like Smoky Mountain Wrestling.

[Vastardikai]

To be fair, the same could be said for a lot of the people watching the show.

To counteract the bad thread from earlier this week:

Someone who they want to be hated should beat the fuck out of Excaliber and rip his mask off, repeatedly screaming a name at him like "Why do you call yourself Excaliber, JACK MEHOFF*?!? Call the damned match right, JACK MEHOFF!!" Turns out, that's gonna be his name from here on out and he can do commentary without the mask. And that solves a major presentation issue.

*Jack Mehoff is a generic joke name that I like to use in various situations.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He nit picks at everything and some cases he is right on, others its like " dude get a grip ".

part of it is I think he just gets rolling. He knows people love listening to him lose his shit and I think he just enjoys cutting promos on new wrestling.

The wise thing to do, if you're AEW, is listen to what guys like Cornette have to say but know where he's being ridiculous and know where he makes good points.

[Evil Vito]

I'm about 95% certain Excalibur would sooner quit than remove his mask.

Not worth losing a really good commentary guy over.

[Destor]

JR was okay but clearly didn't know half the guys he was watching.

Cornette won't say anything bad about his friend though.

JR added credibility to everything he called. He is 0% a problem.

[#1-norm-fan]

I love the "Cornette is stuck in the past" narrative. It's an easy excuse to brush off anything he says. 99% of the shit he complains about has nothing to do with old vs. new. It's sensical vs nonsensical. If shit making sense is considered "outdated" then we're in a really sad fucking time.

[#1-norm-fan]

Do people really think he hates Joey Ryan flipping guys with his magical dick or Kenny Omega wrestling a doll or Chuck Taylor blowing people up with fake grenades simply because they're "new school"?

[Destor]

yes

[#1-norm-fan]

Well those people are stupid.

[Evil Vito]

JR added credibility to everything he called. He is 0% a problem.

He's most definitely an asset. I'd just like to see him familiarize himself with the less known talent instead of flying blind.

I think he will once they're on TNT and he'll be calling these guys and gals week in, week out.

[#1-norm-fan]

After listening to JR go on rants on his new podcast with Conrad about how much he hates comedy wrestling, I'm kinda glad they kept him away from calling the battle royal. I would have been cringing for him.

[Destor]

He's most definitely an asset. I'd just like to see him familiarize himself with the less known talent instead of flying blind.

I think he will once they're on TNT and he'll be calling these guys and gals week in, week out.

Familiarize himself how? These workers dont have characters. they do moves. They dont tell stories. They do moves. What is he supposed to be calling? If you ask me given what he's working with he's knocking it out of the park.

[Destor]

There's a reason the guys who have characters and are telling stories are called better and its not the guy in the booth thats the issue.

[Bad News Gertner]

Do people really think he hates Joey Ryan flipping guys with his magical dick or Kenny Omega wrestling a doll or Chuck Taylor blowing people up with fake grenades simply because they're "new school"?


100%yes and he's 100% correct

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

There's a reason the guys who have characters and are telling stories are called better and its not the guy in the booth thats the issue.

Yeah, as someone who thinks the 3 main events delivered and Moxley's introduction was great, your mid-card and even prelims are very important. They'd be better served not to focus on indy geek bullshit. I get that there are people who like it, but it comes across as completely the opposite of the 'sports first' approach they were talking about and seems more like a circus. How can JR call a bunch of 180 pounders flipping around and hugging one another like they're Flair and Steamboat after Wrestlewar?

I don't even mind Joey Janela (I don't love him either) - as he adds some grit and I think will be used as a JTTS which I think is an effective role for a guy like him. Loved the visual of him squaring off with Mox on Being the Elite.

It's just a lot of the other stuff does not grab my interest in the slightest.

However, I could be completely wrong. They do seem to have their finger on the pulse and maybe REALLY keying in on this more "nerdy" audience will pay off.

[#1-norm-fan]

lol Stop. He doesn't fucking hate all that shit because it's "new". He hates it because it's stupid and makes wrestling look fucking stupid. Even by wrestling standards. It's stupid now, it would have been stupid 30 years ago and it will be stupid 30 years from now. The idea that it just boils down to "new = bad" is ridiculous.

[#1-norm-fan]

Imagine someone trying to show you a video of a football game where a team gets 3 points after a touchdown if the guy who scores is able to spike the ball and then lick the referee's asshole before being touched by a defender.

Then when you say "What the fuck is this shit!?" they're like "Ugh. You just hate it because it's not the football you grew up on. GET WITH THE TIMES, OLD MAN!"

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol Stop. He doesn't fucking hate all that shit because it's "new". He hates it because it's stupid and makes wrestling look fucking stupid. Even by wrestling standards. It's stupid now, it would have been stupid 30 years ago and it will be stupid 30 years from now. The idea that it just boils down to "new = bad" is ridiculous.

talking to me or Gertner?

Gertner agrees with you and so do I.

[#1-norm-fan]

I took Gertner's response as "100% yes this is what people think and 100% yes, he (Cornette) is right (in thinking that)."

As in they think that, he DOES feel that way, and he's right in feeling that way.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I took Gertner's response as "100% yes this is what people think and 100% yes, he (Cornette) is right (in thinking that)."

As in they think that, he DOES feel that way, and he's right in feeling that way.

He said 'yes' to people incorrectly thinking that but that he's 100% correct about thinking it's shit.

[Evil Vito]

Imagine someone trying to show you a video of a football game where a team gets 3 points after a touchdown if the guy who scores is able to spike the ball and then lick the referee's asshole before being touched by a defender.

Somebody's been reading my dream journal.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well, yeah. That makes sense. I couldn't imagine Gertner didn't agree with Cornette that it was shit. The wording made it sound like he was agreeing with people who think that's his reasoning while also agreeing with his reasoning though.

[#1-norm-fan]

I need to turn to ass licking in more of my analogies. It seems to make my point well.

[Evil Vito]

RP would volunteer for asshole licking in half a minute.

[Fignuts]

I’ve never really had a problem with silly comedy stuff. I can even watch something like the omega vs 9 year old match and then one of his serious matches without one affecting my enjoyment of the other. Just how my brain is wired I guess.

[Evil Vito]

Same. To each their own but I don’t get crotchety any time they don’t take it seriously. I like variety.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I watched Battle Royal so far. Won't listen to Corny until I see the full show for reference.

After seeing one comment here I'm surprised Cornette actually watched Omega/Jericho at all. Probably was because of Jericho being involved and not the BlowupDoll/Child wrestler.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cornette right on the money, as usual.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Same. To each their own but I don’t get crotchety any time they don’t take it seriously. I like variety.

Yeah I don't like the comedy stuff at all but I don't lose my shit over it either. Kind of understand why cornette does because it's dumb as shit - but comparitively, it's still so much better than pretty much anything WWE lol

[Seanny One Ball]

Jim Cornette is great but there are some easy instances you can go to if you want to point out how hypocritical he can be about "stupid" angles or spots.

The dick flip, inflatable doll and invisible grenade are things he brings up a lot and he's right.

But then you find out about Prince Kharis, or you see a Kowabunga match and you think "how is that not exposing the business?"
The same could be said for his love of Dusty Rhodes, who's years of incredible popularity put paid to any notion that there was ever realism in 70's and 80's wrestling. Fuck me, watch Ray Gunkel vs Lou Thesz or any of the revered stuff of old that you can actually see in relatively decent quality nowadays... it was always pretty obviously bullshit.

Corny just gets mad when other people can tolerate more B.S than he can.
He fucking hates claw holds but managed a wrestler who used one in his own company...

Cornette should have to watch his matches against Paul E every time he wants to tirade about how much Kenny Omega sucks.

So yeah, I think mostly he's unhappy that there is no real effort to preserve kayfabe despite it never really covering up the fact that wrestling has always been silly. Harley Race looked silly in his matches sometimes, Ric Flair and Terry Funk too. It's just that they maintained the veneer a bit better in their day and there isn't much proof of that era if there ever was a dick flip.

Quite frankly I would not be surprised to see a clip of Ric Flair selling a dick flip back in the day. He sold everything else.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Those are pretty daft points.

[Seth82]

apparently Jim is now homophobic too.

saying someone looks like they came from a drag show is now homophobic in this ultra sensitive time. this was in response to Sonny Kiss.

people are all upset about Jim's comments on twitter.

[#1-norm-fan]

Those are pretty daft points.

You can’t prove that Ric Flair never took a dick flip in the 70s though so... CHECKMATE.

[Mr. Nerfect]

apparently Jim is now homophobic too.

saying someone looks like they came from a drag show is now homophobic in this ultra sensitive time. this was in response to Sonny Kiss.

people are all upset about Jim's comments on twitter.

His comments were a little cringe-worthy, in the tenor of modern times. The word "transvestite" does not translate well. It's pretty obvious that Cornette does not have issues with the LGBT+ community though. Anyone who listens to his political rants would get that. He might not "get" the community as much as some that immerse themselves, but he's generally a very supportive dude of people doing what they want. So that's a pretty dishonest misrepresentation of his stance to try and discredit him ad hominem, because it's easier than actually arguing against his salient points.

It came off to me like he didn't get why Sonny Kiss was doing what he's doing. It was a criticism of the presentation and production more than any lifestyle Sonny lives. And the ass spot was fucking ridiculous and Orlando Jordan in TNA level bad.

I can understand why people in the LGBT+ community would get tired of having to "explain" themselves as performers and whatever, and probably just want to be -- but this isn't "real life." If it is a performance. Elements to Kiss' presentation probably do need to be conveyed to an audience, just as anybody's would be. I don't get why Sammy Guevara wears a panda head, for example. It doesn't mean I'm against pandas or people that are into dressing up as animals or whatever.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You can’t prove that Ric Flair never took a dick flip in the 70s though so... CHECKMATE.

I have no doubt that Flair flipped plenty of people with his dick in the 70's. If that were Seanny's assertion, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him outright.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Is Cornette still not on Omega? I mean, I get the wrestling a kid shit. But that was years ago. He's clearly a star, great in the ring and is a star despite never being in wwe. What's there to shit on at this point?

[#1-norm-fan]

He’s basically said that the kid/blowup doll shit disqualified him from ever being taken seriously.

But also, he doesn’t like his facial expressions and his voice. The latter is actually a fair point.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I can see his facial expressions being an issue. I feel like he's toned it down quite a bit. He can't help his voice so that is what it is.

The blowup doll and kid matches being heldagainst him when he's clearly elite is just being stupid for the sake of stubbornness. That shit was silly but Omega is a star in the ring and it's just dumb not to acknowledge him as such at this point.

[A.J.K]

He was a complete homophobic piece of shit towards Nyla Rose and Sonny Kiss

[Supreme Olajuwon]

You guys talking about Ric Flair like he doesn’t literally have his own penis related signature maneuver. Grapefruit claw, baby.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Speaking of the Nature Boy, the Flair Flop is one of my absolute favorite staples in wrestling. But you can’t tell me that shit wasn’t exposing the business back in the day.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

The Flair flop in its heyday was fucking glorious. Flair's timing with its use was impeccable.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He was a complete homophobic piece of shit towards Nyla Rose and Sonny Kiss

What did he say about Nyla Rose that could even be considered remotely homophobic? I was actually listening for things that people would twist, but couldn't find a single thing.

On the Sonny Kiss thing: I kind of feel like yelling at the people calling Cornette's criticism of him homophobia: "Not every gay person dresses like that, and not every person who dresses like that is gay, you homophobes!"

Inclusion and representation are super-important things. I'm big on the whole equality thing. I just don't think that Cornette's quibbles had anything to do with gender or sexuality, as much as it was about the psychology of wrestling and presentation of a fight.

Brian Last probably should stepped in on the Sonny Kiss stuff, just to clarify that it wasn't about Kiss as a person or what he does outside a ring, but maybe he felt it was pretty self-explanatory?

Still, Cornette could probably express himself better on these things, because it gives the people who can't really engage with critical thinking too much fire to ignore his actual points. This is where the "he hates anything new" straw-man comes from. He's also a homophobe now because he doesn't understand why Sonny Kiss coming to the ring like he's on a catwalk so he can shove his ass in people's faces makes sense in matches with World Title implications. I mean, I'm glad Kiss is working, but I can't explain that one either.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Speaking of the Nature Boy, the Flair Flop is one of my absolute favorite staples in wrestling. But you can’t tell me that shit wasn’t exposing the business back in the day.

I agree, but I'm not a fan of the Flair flop anyway. If he did it once in a blue moon, okay.

[Lock Jaw]

My problem with how Omega was handled at Double or Nothing was before the Jericho match he was saying in the promo, and I think commentators were saying as well, something like "This is Kenny Omega's chance to make a first impression on a lot of people!"

To which I thought, "Well, it would have been, if he wasn't out there earlier acting like a bit of a goof and welcoming people to the show."

Then he made his entrance and I did think he looked like a "star".... but I really wished that it was indeed my first impression of him.... Thought his antics earlier in the night "lowered him down" a bit.....

[Seanny One Ball]

Those are pretty daft points.


It's all daft, Noid.

It's wrestling.

[Lock Jaw]

But rassling is SERIOUS BUSINESS. Everyone knows that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

My problem with how Omega was handled at Double or Nothing was before the Jericho match he was saying in the promo, and I think commentators were saying as well, something like "This is Kenny Omega's chance to make a first impression on a lot of people!"

To which I thought, "Well, it would have been, if he wasn't out there earlier acting like a bit of a goof and welcoming people to the show."

Then he made his entrance and I did think he looked like a "star".... but I really wished that it was indeed my first impression of him.... Thought his antics earlier in the night "lowered him down" a bit.....

The more time that passes, the more the commentary bothers me. Stuff like in the Battle Royal with Marvez saying "If you like what you see, there's going to be more coming" right after Glacier "freezes" Sunny Daze. It's like...bad time to say that thing, lol.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, I remember some point in the battle royale them talking about "if you like this action, be sure to buy the PPV", and I thought "This is not really selling it to me at all, guys, and I can't imagine it selling anybody"

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I remember some point in the battle royale them talking about "if you like this action, be sure to buy the PPV", and I thought "This is not really selling it to me at all, guys, and I can't imagine it selling anybody"

Lol, yeah. It was worse than simply being a throwaway line. It almost seemed timed to be hilariously bad, which it obviously wasn't.

[Seanny One Ball]

Speaking of the Nature Boy, the Flair Flop is one of my absolute favorite staples in wrestling. But you can’t tell me that shit wasn’t exposing the business back in the day.


I honestly think Cornette just misses the old ladies in the front row.

There is no wrestling company that doesn't or didn't have it's own ridiculous gimmicks, spots or storylines.
It's hard to reconcile a lot of what Cornette celebrates about the past and his problems with exposing the business today. It's like he would love pantomime but hate a play where they broke the fourth wall.

Not that he was wrong about the dick flip, doll or invisible grenade. But for every one of them there's a territory equivalent somewhere back in the past that people give a free pass to because their granny was really into it.

[Seanny One Ball]

But rassling is SERIOUS BUSINESS. Everyone knows that.


Adrian Street probably sold a few dick flips

[Mr. Nerfect]

Adrian Street probably sold a few dick flips

Why would you flip off a dick if you were Adrian Street? God, you make no sense, Seanny.

[Seanny One Ball]

Don't worry about it

[Mr. Nerfect]

A lot of those territory examples do have internal logic though. Jim Cornette being embarrassed by a Ninja Turtle is fine. A guy in a costume could do that to Cornette. What doesn't make sense is when a Ninja Turtle competes in a legitimate match where they are trying to win a championship or something.

You can say that they are differing degrees of silly, but that difference is really, really important. It's the difference between not knowing the difference between luke-warm, warm, hot and boiling water.

Does Cornette miss the old ladies in the front row? Possibly. But that there are no old ladies in the front row is kind of his point. That's when you know you've gone too far into boiling territory.

There needs to be an internal logic behind why you are doing something. That's what the psychology part of wrestling is, isn't it? It's the mentality behind each decision you make. If there's no reason you are doing something, then why are you doing it?

[Seanny One Ball]

No that's all wrong.

Write it again.

[Mr. Nerfect]

No, you're all wrong.

Write yourself again.

[Seanny One Ball]

You're alt right

[Vastardikai]

Adrian Street probably sold a few dick flips

Adrian Street beat the shit out of Jimmy Saville because he thought he was one of the boys. Luckily for Saville, Adrian didn't find out about the boy fucking until after the shit kicking.

Mick Foley said the only time he ever hit 10 on the pain scale was when Street put a hold on him. Mick fucking Foley.

If someone tried to get Street to grab their dick, Street would have a new bowtie.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I honestly think Cornette just misses the old ladies in the front row.

There is no wrestling company that doesn't or didn't have it's own ridiculous gimmicks, spots or storylines.
It's hard to reconcile a lot of what Cornette celebrates about the past and his problems with exposing the business today. It's like he would love pantomime but hate a play where they broke the fourth wall.

Not that he was wrong about the dick flip, doll or invisible grenade. But for every one of them there's a territory equivalent somewhere back in the past that people give a free pass to because their granny was really into it.

He's a gasbag but a gasbag with great knowledge of wrestling history and near unmatched insight if you sift through the vitriol and histrionics.

[RP]

All the knowledge in the world does not give you the right to be willfully ignorant.

[Evil Vito]

Lolllllllll at him wanting someone to explain why Sonny Kiss looks like that

Why the fuck do you think, Jim?

[Emperor Smeat]

His apology on the incident was pretty bad since he tried to put all the blame on Joey Ryan instead.

Also not the first time Cornette has thrown slurs at wrestlers. At least in Ryan's case, he's thrown slurs at him going back to at least 2015. Same problem then where he tried to completely blame Ryan for his use of the slurs.

[Seanny One Ball]

Adrian Street beat the shit out of Jimmy Saville because he thought he was one of the boys. Luckily for Saville, Adrian didn't find out about the boy fucking until after the shit kicking.

Mick Foley said the only time he ever hit 10 on the pain scale was when Street put a hold on him. Mick fucking Foley.

If someone tried to get Street to grab their dick, Street would have a new bowtie.



So Mick Foley has something in common with a dead paedophile. Cool.

[Mr. Nerfect]

His apology on the incident was pretty bad since he tried to put all the blame on Joey Ryan instead.

Also not the first time Cornette has thrown slurs at wrestlers. At least in Ryan's case, he's thrown slurs at him going back to at least 2015. Same problem then where he tried to completely blame Ryan for his use of the slurs.

Lol, Ryan deserves everything he gets. Didn't he post up a picture of his dick in a candy box with the caption "Something for the kids?" And if Ryan did say that Cornette's criticisms were homophobic, which they weren't, then he is a piece of shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I genuinely don't know, but is "transvestite" even a slur? I was reading up on it somewhere and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Some embrace it, while others reject it. I think that should be down to the person, and it's a word that really shouldn't be used outside-in, but painting it as a slur is a bit loaded.

[Seanny One Ball]

I don't think Jim Cornette is a homophone.

Maybe if his name was Jim Gym...

[Seanny One Ball]

I heard Adrian Street is a transvestite hooker. Vastardikai told me he had a dick necklace.

[Emperor Smeat]

I genuinely don't know, but is "transvestite" even a slur? I was reading up on it somewhere and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Some embrace it, while others reject it. I think that should be down to the person, and it's a word that really shouldn't be used outside-in, but painting it as a slur is a bit loaded.

Consider Kiss and his boyfriend were upset over it, I'd consider it to be one in this case. Several of Kiss' co-workers in AEW also felt similar in Cornette crossing the line.

Cornette was specifically attacking Kiss' sexuality with his rant when he was complaining about stuff in the Battle Royal match.

[Seanny One Ball]

I thought Gene Simmons claimed higher numbers than Wilt Chamberlain. Now I find out he's a transvestite from Jim Cornette.

Detroit Cock City more like.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Consider Kiss and his boyfriend were upset over it, I'd consider it to be one in this case. Several of Kiss' co-workers in AEW also felt similar in Cornette crossing the line.

Cornette was specifically attacking Kiss' sexuality with his rant when he was complaining about stuff in the Battle Royal match.

How was he attacking Kiss' sexuality in the Battle Royal comments?

I agree that if Kiss was upset by it, then Cornette should clarify that he insulted Kiss because he's a shitty wrestler and not because of who he inherently is as a human being, but I thought that was very obvious listening to actual podcast instead of second-hand distortions on Twitter.

Like, Kiss' statement was something like "I've been out since childhood, so this 'attack' failed." It's not my place to tell Kiss whether or not being told he looks like a transvestite/exotico in his gear, that seems specifically designed to appear that way, offends him, but it seems pretty clear to me that he didn't actually regard the actual statements made by Cornette, considering Corny never once made a reference to sexuality. Like...at all. Unless I am missing something really egregious? Thought it was all about how Sonny was presenting himself/was presented for the Battle Royal.

This reminds me of when everybody in WWE jumped on Meltzer for commenting on WWE's preference for surgically enhanced women with his comments re: Peyton Royce. Meltzer handled that way better (arguably better than he even needed to), but my god are people in the wrestling industry stupid sometimes. If Royce spent five minutes thinking about it, she would probably have understood that the guy criticizing the company that takes giant lump sums cash from the Saudi goverment and "suggests" their women get breast implants is probably not the one with impossible beauty standards.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, the Experience is going to be awesome this week. Brian Last not only dug up the Joey Ryan pedophile portrait, but a rape joke he made on Twitter too.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Lol, the Experience is going to be awesome this week. Brian Last not only dug up the Joey Ryan pedophile portrait, but a rape joke he made on Twitter too.

Also dug up him using the N word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Evil Vito]

I’d pay to see Cornette vs Joey Ryan at some indy show

[Mr. Nerfect]

I would much rather see Joey Ryan in there with Brock Lesnar.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I should clarify: In this scenario, Ryan tried to make Sable touch his dick first.

[#1-norm-fan]

Sonny Kiss looked fucking ridiculous in that battle royal. He kept pulling Dreamer’s face into his ass for comedic purposes because “lolgayness”. That was clearly the whole purpose of the spot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sonny Kiss looked fucking ridiculous in that battle royal. He kept pulling Dreamer’s face into his ass for comedic purposes because “lolgayness”. That was clearly the whole purpose of the spot.

Oh yeah, there's that too.

You know, just the most obvious thing that my tangential nature skirted around.

[#1-norm-fan]

Don’t be a caricature if you don’t want the obvious pointed out. The man can shout that he’s gay from the rooftop but if he’s gonna go out of his way to be a gay wrestling gimmick stereotype when he wrestles then it’s gonna come up occasionally.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Is Sonny Kiss the first ever transgender wrestler? Doesn't look good for a company that is trying to be for everybody/banning transphobic fans.

[Bad News Gertner]

I'm struggling to figure out why people are pissy about what Cornette said about Sonny Kiss other than certain people dislike Cornette so they'll jump on anything he says.

All Cornette said was, why are they presenting this over the top Exotico type wrestler with zero backstory. Kiss was just there.

[#1-norm-fan]

I’m more curious about people being pissed about what he said about Nyla Rose. He kinda praised her and I don’t remember any reference to her being trans at all.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m more curious about people being pissed about what he said about Nyla Rose. He kinda praised her and I don’t remember any reference to her being trans at all.

I was waiting for him to say anything, but I didn’t catch a single thing. I think this is just what Gerty said. People don’t like Cornette so they’ll just make it up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Is Sonny Kiss the first ever transgender wrestler? Doesn't look good for a company that is trying to be for everybody/banning transphobic fans.

No, he’s gay/gender fluid. I just found out the second thing today. So Sonny doesn’t mind being called “she” or “they.” Just don’t call them a shitty wrestler.

[Evil Vito]

Doesn't look good for a company that is trying to be for everybody/banning transphobic fans.

Trying to oppress others on the basis of sexuality, gender, race, etc is a toxic mindset that had no place in society.

AEW is for everyone that isn't an asshole.

[Vastardikai]

I heard Adrian Street is a transvestite hooker. Vastardikai told me he had a dick necklace.

He is not a transvestite hooker. He's a Sweet Transvestite with a Broken Nose. :shifty:

[Droford]

I just started listening cause its 3am an I have hours to kill of boredom

[Droford]

"MJF's a fucking magician"

understatement

[mike adamle]

I don't understand why everyone is calling Jim Cornette a homophobe or why Sonny Kiss would be mad. In Mexico they have the exotico division where a lot of the dudes dress up as transvestites and try to kiss the male wrestlers in the match. Like that is literally their gimmick. Sonny Kiss looks exactly like that, and wrestles like that too, just replace the kiss (which may still be a part of his gimmick, this was all of seen of him.) with pulling someones face in his ass. Like if you go that far, and someone points out the obvious that you look like a transvestite, how do you get offended at that?

[mike adamle]

Also lol at this "homophobe" outrage coming a week or two after Cornette ranted for like a half hour on how ridiculous the new abortion bill is while also defending the gay community from idiots opposed to gay marriage and the like.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's typical butt hurt wrestlers unable to deal with criticism and acting like carnies in response.

[Seanny One Ball]

A quick Google image search for Sonny Kiss should be enough to end all argument.

[Seanny One Ball]

Looks like a man who enjoys wearing women's clothes.

[Blonde Moment]

Looks like a man who enjoys wearing women's clothes.

Nothing wrong with that at all but if all there is to Sonny Kiss is what i saw in teh Battle Royal he can go back to where he came from.

[Seanny One Ball]

I wonder what Jesse Ventura would have called him

[Bad News Gertner]

Jesse: "Sonny Kiss went to the Terry Garvin School of Self Defence Monsoon"

Gorilla: "That'll give ya a negative attitude adjustment right there Jess"

[Fignuts]

Dusty: Tony, thith young manth genda theemth to be mithcombobulated, if you weeeeeeel

[My Final Heaven]

I have a pic of myself with Nyla Rose, she used to wrestle in my local fed. I never knew she was trans, I just thought she was a big Awesome Kong-esque fat chick :-\

[My Final Heaven]

WAIT, WHAT

Meet Nyla Rose, the first full-time trans fighter in a major wrestling promotion (https://www.queerty.com/meet-nyla-rose-first-trans-person-ever-fight-full-time-major-wrestling-promotion-20190524)
"Interestingly, Rose isn’t the first out trans pro-wrestler. Before her, there was Candy Lee, a New Zealand wrestler with Impact Pro Wrestling; Mariah Morena, “The Bloodthirsty Vixen” with American Wrestling Alliance; U.K. wrestler Harley Ryder; and trans Japanese wrestler Asuka."

WAIT, WHAT

[Vastardikai]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pro Wrestling WAVE’s ASUKA is another amazing wrestler everyone should be watching. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TransDayOfVisibility?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TransDayOfVisibility</a> <a href="https://t.co/8wDe9NYwo4">pic.twitter.com/8wDe9NYwo4</a></p>&mdash; casey michael (@ifyouseekcasey) <a href="https://twitter.com/ifyouseekcasey/status/980179386828820481?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Not THAT Asuka.

[My Final Heaven]

O, thanks. I wasn't sure if that site was some sort of Wrestling version of The Onion or something.

Here we go -
https://i.ibb.co/FXXsGX9/PICT0004.jpg

My stance on the matter is - "I didn't know she was a man, I thought she was an unattractive woman. :shifty:"

[Seanny One Ball]

To be the man you have to beat the man.

[My Final Heaven]

You're only tough until the man comes around.

[#1-norm-fan]

If it wasn’t for the bitching and the PR nightmare it would cause, Nyla turning heel and basically being like “Yeah, I was born a man and I’m going to beat the shit out of every woman on the roster and there’s nothing anyone can do about it or I’ll cry discrimination.” would be a great storyline.

[Destor]

The heat would be amazing

[Droford]

If it wasn’t for the bitching and the PR nightmare it would cause, Nyla turning heel and basically being like “Yeah, I was born a man and I’m going to beat the shit out of every woman on the roster and there’s nothing anyone can do about it or I’ll cry discrimination.” would be a great storyline.

WWE should do that with nia jax

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The heat would be amazing

It'd kind of be like the next-level version of Andy Kauffman. I fucking love it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nothing wrong with that at all but if all there is to Sonny Kiss is what i saw in teh Battle Royal he can go back to where he came from.

This is something that I've been trying to articulate. I get that LGBT+ people are sick of "explaining themselves" to people, but we're talking about a presented show. No one is talking about Sonny Kiss' right to exist when they're like "Wtf are you doing here?" It's the same when you've got a guy pretending to be a dinosaur and you don't know why. The exposition should exist for everything that happens.

The lines between kayfabe and reality are so blurred for these guys that they conflate not giving a fuck about them as TV characters as an insult to their entire existence. Like, Sonny -- no one has followed you since childhood. No one knows your life story just by looking at you. In fact, if you dress like every fake gay gimmick WWE has ever presented, then those are the signposts you are drawing on to convey a visual message.

O, thanks. I wasn't sure if that site was some sort of Wrestling version of The Onion or something.

Here we go -
https://i.ibb.co/FXXsGX9/PICT0004.jpg

My stance on the matter is - "I didn't know she was a man, I thought she was an unattractive woman. :shifty:"

Good for her if her transition has been so successful.

If it wasn’t for the bitching and the PR nightmare it would cause, Nyla turning heel and basically being like “Yeah, I was born a man and I’m going to beat the shit out of every woman on the roster and there’s nothing anyone can do about it or I’ll cry discrimination.” would be a great storyline.

Would it be better to have her talk about her being a "real woman" instead? Womanhood chose her to put on the boots and beat the shit out of these fake bitches.

[Seanny One Ball]

Yeah let's get a man to beat up the fake bitches.

Classic Noid

[Evil Vito]

When the Revival turn up next year and beat the shit out of the Bucks, the crowd is going to pop huge even though they’re meant to be the heels.

If Jim Cornette then comes out and reveals himself as The Revival’s manager, it would quickly turn into nuclear heat.

God that would be great.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Jim Cornette would be the perfect manager for the Revival.

[Seanny One Ball]

It's a ridiculous situation but a perfect way to highlight how podcasting, Twitter and other social media can be used in future to create incendiary heat.
I agree with Destor and whoever else says that danger heat needs to come back. Riot heat.

Obviously there's a better way to use it to sell tickets. Going out in an obvious character break and Tweeting anti-Cornette stuff is just a wasted opportunity. Get some heel in AEW to beat Sonny legitimately and afterwards to really push it in a promo - use incorrect pronouns and all that stuff and make a match where Sonny Kiss can beat the shit out of the heel while laying down the law verbally. Beat the bastard until they fall through the ropes.

It's a gender based Muhammad Ali vs Ernie Terrell, a shout out to history.
You could even have Sonny do the whole "What's my name?" bit.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Also why does an androgynous character or whatever Sonny is doing (I haven't watched so I don't get the deal) have to be shoving heads in asses? Sure, you can have a look but isn't it 'reductive' to just have the character be so overtly sexual? Why not have a mean streak?

[Seanny One Ball]

Rikishi never seemed to enjoy it that much

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cornette’s podcast links are down on MLW Radio. I wonder if the alleged homophobia has anything to do with that?

[mike adamle]

I saw that earlier. None of the other MLW podcast links are down. Very interesting.

[Savio]

Cornette’s podcast links are down on MLW Radio.
Good

[James Steele]

Cornette left MLW’s podcast network last year.

[Tom Guycott]

Jim Cornette would be the perfect manager for the Revival.

He's even said before he'd do it while he was slurping one of their matches.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cornette left MLW’s podcast network last year.

He left them officially, but they've still been a gateway to access his podcasts since then. Weird for them to close it down now that he's working with them again.

[Destor]

LOL he's "anti-trans" so they took him down

[Fignuts]

Danger heat would be awesome to see again but it’s not coming back.