Wrestling Clichés

[Destor]

What are some wrestling clichés that you could do with out? I'll start:

"Im fat therefore im strong"

and

"We are babies therefore we are friends" (and the heel equivalent.)

NOW YOU GO

[Big Vic]

"I'm a heel woman therefore I am crazy."

[Evil Vito]

Contract signings. The talking drags on way too long. We all know they're going to end up fighting, just get it over with.

[Evil Vito]

In a similar vain, nobody pays any attention to any wrestling wedding segment until the "speak now or forever hold your peace" line.

[Innovator]

Chekhov's cake.

[Destor]

Contract signings. The talking drags on way too long. We all know they're going to end up fighting, just get it over with.

Thats a good one. so played out.

[Innovator]

Distraction loss by feuding rival playing their entrance music

[Destor]

Im fine with it as long as they explain how they coerced the production truck to interfere on their behalf.

[Evil Vito]

Babyface dives out of ring onto the heel, clearly having the upper hand
Commercial break
Return from commercial break, heel has face worn down in a rest hold

[Destor]

Thats more practical than anything. You go into commercial with a hope spot. This increases the likelyhood the audience staying. SO HYPE.

On the flipside you need to grab a hold during commercial otherwise you're bumping for free. Moreover the lull from the hold lets you go right into another hope spot as soon as you're back from break.

The only way around that is dont go to break during a match...

[ClockShot]

"The Hot Tag"

Just tag your partner. No need to do the leaping tag, or a flair flop, or tag from countering a move.

[Destor]

thats not what a hot tag is

[Destor]

But I do like the rock N Roll express tag. Its classic.

[Destor]

Nobody did like Ricky Morton though

[RP]

the " I'm Alexa Bliss and i'm gonna show my ass but not shit in RP's mouth " cliche

[Evil Vito]

Thats more practical than anything. You go into commercial with a hope spot. This increases the likelyhood the audience staying. SO HYPE.

On the flipside you need to grab a hold during commercial otherwise you're bumping for free. Moreover the lull from the hold lets you go right into another hope spot as soon as you're back from break.

The only way around that is dont go to break during a match...

I know it's all practical but it still makes me kinda laugh because I remember when I was like 10 and Tony Schiavone would be like "WE'VE GOTTA TAKE OUR LAST COMMERCIAL BREAK, IF THE MATCH ENDS WE'LL SHOW YOU WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE COME BACK"

And if it was somebody I was invested in like DDP or Sting I'd panic during the commercials cause I thought I'd actually miss the finish :lol:

[Evil Vito]

As a counter to that - I love how 80s WCW would talk about "standby" matches they had planned in case there was still time left in the show after the main event. Because, in theory, it could've been like a 5 minute match cause it was a real contest.

Now you can take yourself right out of the main event by looking at the clock and knowing they have to go home in 2 minutes.

[Destor]

As a counter to that - I love how 80s WCW would talk about "standby" matches they had planned in case there was still time left in the show after the main event.

Little things like that went a long way. I dont know if today you would do them but I really enjoyed those small nods to kayfabing an actual sportscast.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

didn't they do that with that super long Michaels vs Cena match?

[Evil Vito]

I think Michaels/Cena opened up the show so I'm not sure. They might've billed a match the next week as one that had been unexpectedly cancelled.

[Innovator]

Yeah they were doing HBK vs. Cena and Edge vs. Orton, HBK and Cena went the full hour so they pushed the other match to the next week

[Innovator]

Little things like that went a long way. I dont know if today you would do them but I really enjoyed those small nods to kayfabing an actual sportscast.

One NXT someone demanded a match to Regal. Regal told him it'll have to be next week since this show is "booked solid". One of my favorite NXT moments.

[Evil Vito]

One NXT someone demanded a match to Regal. Regal told him it'll have to be next week since this show is "booked solid". One of my favorite NXT moments.

If you need an authority figure on the show at all, Regal is exactly the type of one I'd want. Someone who only occasionally appears because he's busy actually running the show.

There's been a heel authority figure in some form or another for over 20 years now and it's so beyond played out.

[Destor]

Thats a big one "heel authority figure"

They almost dont know how to write without it

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They don't know how to write with it either.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Wrestlers shoehorning events and dates into their promos. I didn’t mind it so much when wrestlers are doing backstage promos to the camera, but when two wrestlers are in the ring together taking to each other I hate it.

“Brock, when I see you in the ring this Sunday at Wrestlemania live from the MetLife Stadium in New York, I’m gonna BURN. IT. DOWN!”

[Seanny One Ball]

Opponent A uses Opponent B's finish, Opponent B is guaranteed to kick out on a long two count.

Somebody must have won using the other guy's finish before but if they have, I ain't seen it.

[Fignuts]

We’re both [insert race] so we should tag together.

[Emperor Smeat]

Wrestlers backstage watching a tv screen but viewing it in an awkward or non-normal way.

[Evil Vito]

Wrestler being shown arriving to the building after the show had already started. Surely they should at least get a write-up at some point.

[Bad News Gertner]

As a counter to that - I love how 80s WCW would talk about "standby" matches they had planned in case there was still time left in the show after the main event. Because, in theory, it could've been like a 5 minute match cause it was a real contest.

Now you can take yourself right out of the main event by looking at the clock and knowing they have to go home in 2 minutes.

The stand by match was a staple of Mid South T.V

[Fignuts]

Wrestlers being in full gear and oiled up backstage even though they’re not booked for a match. Like that’s just how they are all the time.

[Evil Vito]

Lol I used to feel awful for Goldust. So many Raws in the past decade where he had to do the full paint job only to be used in a 5 second backstage spot.

[Evil Vito]

Actually speaking of full gear - anytime a wrestler hosting an interview segment has their gear on, it’s a giveaway that an impromptu match is about to be booked.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Matches, especially main events, being announced in the opening segment. Um, what was the main event going to be?

A wrestler will take less damage off giving a top rope superplex than they would if they would miss a second rope senton.

"What's that? Someone else's music I hear? I am going to drop my guard, turn my body and present myself to my current opponent in a way that will allow them to roll me up."

Wrestlers who don't watch the show. There will be a miscommunication between partners one week, and the next they will still act like it was intentional even if they can see that it was set up by the heels or whatever.

Heels that have just attacked two wrestlers fighting in a #1 Contender's Match and are SHOCKED to discover that they will be defending their belt in a Triple Threat.

Once a referee gets knocked down, they take ages to make counts. It must be more exhausting to hold your arm up against gravity like that.

Wrestlers walking backstage with a camera on them like nothing's happening. They are always surprised when something happens.

Finishers or weapons are super-effective outside the context of a match. During a match, they can't get a three.

Wrestler hits a trademark move they have never won a match with and are surprised when their opponent kicks out during a televised match. You have literally never won a match with that move.

Wrestlers who used to be tough as babyfaces suddenly get glass jaws as heels. This can be expanded to wrestlers suddenly completely changing their approach to matches overnight if they turn at all. I mean, that's part of the game, isn't it? But this becomes pretty comical when things are as two-toned as they are now.

[Seanny One Ball]

Top rop superplex v second rope senton I think could be covered by the whole timing thing. If you know you are executing a suplex you will expect the landing and adjust for it. If you miss the senton the timing may be all fucked up and so you land in a way you hadn't prepared for.

Or at least that's how I always assumed those things would be explained away.

[Stickman]

Wrestlers having to use their finisher to end the match, hitting it multiple times in the main event or ppv. I’m good with finishers but don’t do it every match, make it more special by not using it all the time. How many times did Bret Hart win with a roll up and win by the skin of his teeth? Didn’t have to hit the sharpshooter every match, but when he dot it on nobody got out.
I feel like Daniel Bryan is the only guy winning without always hitting the finisher.

[Destor]

I hate the psychology of finishers. More over the finishers lack psychology altogether.


dont get me wrong though. the concept is over so yeah get your shit in but its so stupid.

[Seanny One Ball]

Remember Cody Mckenzie the MMA fighter? He had a finisher.

His MMA record at one point was just a string of like 13 guillotine choke wins. Then he started to lose because at a certain level nobody is letting you take their neck that easy.

[Evil Vito]

The thing about finishers is that they only work if you expect it to actually finish the match. And nowadays, in big matches it's commonplace to expect kickouts. Therefore ruining most false finishes because you don't bite on them the way you're supposed to.

The only finisher that's insanely protected nowadays is the One Winged Angel. I believe Ibushi kicked out of it once, and Okada once got his foot up on the ropes.

[XL]

School Boy being a one-hit kill in 24/7 Championship matches.

[Gerard]

In 4 person per team survivor series matches more often than not once a finisher gets hit and the opponent pinned none of his Team Mates try to break up the pin, when this is commonplace in regular tag matches. There's no "rule" against it so doesn't make much sense why they just stand there gawking.

(yes i know in 4 person team matches that people running in to break up the pin could lead to a never ending match, but they don't even attempt to explain why the team mates don't help)

[Evil Vito]

Seems like every battle royal nowadays has to have someone sliding under the bottom rope hopping back in at the end after everyone forgot about them. It's so overdone.

[WinterDecay]

Forgetting that you were in a blood feud with your new best friend just 3 months ago.



Height = strength

[The MAC]

Wrestlers having to use their finisher to end the match, hitting it multiple times in the main event or ppv. I’m good with finishers but don’t do it every match, make it more special by not using it all the time. How many times did Bret Hart win with a roll up and win by the skin of his teeth? Didn’t have to hit the sharpshooter every match, but when he dot it on nobody got out.
I feel like Daniel Bryan is the only guy winning without always hitting the finisher.


Because he's Bret Hart. He paints wrestling psychology with water colours...everyone else just doodles in crayon.

[Destor]

Ah, so this is why you hate Goldberg

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

How the sleeperhold leads into hope spot/cut off every fucking time.

[Destor]

better than it being a finish

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

But maybe just have it be the full comeback once in a while instead of the cutoff. Just to keep us goons guessing.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

THAT'S ALL I ASK

[#1-norm-fan]

Has no one mentioned “challenger beats champion in a non-title situation. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR SUNDAY!?!”

It might be the one that irks me most. It’s always been used to some extent and it was effective until the past 20 years or so where it has to happen in EVERY. SINGLE. TITLE. FEUD.

[Destor]

Laaaaaazy booking

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Has no one mentioned “challenger beats champion in a non-title situation. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR SUNDAY!?!”

It might be the one that irks me most. It’s always been used to some extent and it was effective until the past 20 years or so where it has to happen in EVERY. SINGLE. TITLE. FEUD.

Lump in beating the champ in non title match as a way to then earn a title shot against said champ.

[The MAC]

Ah, so this is why you hate Goldberg

Hate is a very strong word. You would have thought that he learned to work enough not to injure people ,or himself. Motherfucker is bleeding before he left the locker room.


Goldberg made millions by other guys making him look good...the least he could have done was learned not to hurt them .

[Fignuts]

Using a title to get someone over, instead of a wrestler getting a title over.

Wait, that's not a wrestling cliche. Just a WWE cliche.

[Destor]

Using a title to get someone over, instead of a wrestler getting a title over.

Wait, that's not a wrestling cliche. Just a WWE cliche.
Theres a time and place for both. I dont think either approach is inherently flawed

[KIRA]

The "struggle" to get up a ladder in a ladder match and then act like there's not at least two more rungs to climb and instead reaching for the title when you are nowhere near it.

Another one hi into the whole "what's going to happen this Sunday" thing when somebody wins/ gets the upper hand on their opponent the week of a pay-per-view very rarely do they win at the pay-per-view so it's predictable depending on how a show goes off the air what's going to happen.

[The MAC]

Wrestling shows that begin with someone, usually akin to the owner talking for about 20 minutes

[Fignuts]

Theres a time and place for both. I dont think either approach is inherently flawed

Maybe so, but I think the former is more of a slippery slope.

Brian Alvarez commented on the backlash to Charlotte beating Asuka for the belt by saying it's just a prop and it doesn't matter. I think I immediately lost some respect for him with those comments.

Yes, from a very literal standpoint the belt is a prop. The audience knows this. But like everything in wrestling, the fans want to be made to forget that, through great storytelling. However, if you're too transparent about using a plot device to further the story, it takes people out of the tale you're trying to tell. This is true of any story telling medium.

Yes people were upset that Asuka's (poorly booked outside of her win against Becky) reign ended to further the other title's feud, but they were also upset because they chose to use a prop at the last minute to artificially enhance the feud in lieu of just telling a good story. I don't know how Brian couldn't see that.

Further more, it does matter how you book the belt. I know for a fact it does. Because when Omega finally beat Okada for the title, I felt something I hadn't felt since Benoit won the title at WM 20 and celebrated in the ring with Eddie. Conversely, when Bray Wyatt, my favorite worker in WWE at the time won the WWE title, I didn't care. Because they had done everything in their power to get me to not care about him over the years, and now they were using the title to try and sell me on him.

One company used the title to enhance the story they were telling. The other used the belt to tell the story, and everyone saw right through it.

It's funny because every time you're too blatant about using a belt to get a person or storyline over, people lose a little respect for that title, in turn having the oppisite effect of the desired outcome. And that's why no one gives a shit about WWE titles. Because they do this shit all the time.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Hate is a very strong word. You would have thought that he learned to work enough not to injure people ,or himself. Motherfucker is bleeding before he left the locker room.


Goldberg made millions by other guys making him look good...the least he could have done was learned not to hurt them .

D-Lo brown paralyzed a guy.

Owen Hart almost ended and contributed to a shortened career for the greatest star of his generation.

Ricky Steamboat ended his career by taking a bump wrong on the turnbuckle.

Seth Rollins has broken Cena's nose, took Balor out for months and killed off Sting.

Undertaker almost killed Aiden English on a tombstone.

Bret Hart likes Goldberg and said it's a shame that such a thing is tied to such a nice guy. Maybe you're being a little dramatic.

[Seanny One Ball]

D'Lo didn't paralyse Droz.

Droz paralysed Droz.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Owen Hart almost ended and contributed to a shortened career for the greatest star of his generation.

.

I've discussed with Gerty about how Owen doing that ridiculous tombstone has to be one of the most boneheaded decisions ever in a match.

[Seanny One Ball]

How a man who was unanimously considered both a brilliant wrestler and a brilliant human being could somehow neglect to apologise or even face up to breaking a man's neck with a move he had already been asked not to use is beyond me.

[Seanny One Ball]

Owen did a variety of piledrivers too... you can see him use a standard, a tombstone and that weird inverted piledriver/sitting tombstone in different matches. I think the one that got Austin was an on-the-spot improvisation though because I can't remember seeing that one before then.

If you want to see a pile driver that's safer than a body slam just watch Ric Flair take one. It's a slow handstand on the giver's feet and then he just lies down whenever Terry Funk or whoever it was was ready.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

How a man who was unanimously considered both a brilliant wrestler and a brilliant human being could somehow neglect to apologise or even face up to breaking a man's neck with a move he had already been asked not to use is beyond me.

the failing to apologize I'm guessing came down to Owen feeling guilty and kind of pussing out because he couldn't face Austin. That doesn't make the decision to do that piledriver any less idiotic, though. Especially considering Steve already had neck problems.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I've discussed with Gerty about how Owen doing that ridiculous tombstone has to be one of the most boneheaded decisions ever in a match.

It made no sense and I'm fairly certain it's come out that when the spot was agreed to, it was agreed as Taker's version as opposed to a sit out tombstone.

Fucking insane and he doesn't seem to catch a ton of flak for it.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Probably because he's dead - and because of how he died. In fairness, he sounded like a really nice guy. But there's no doubt how fucking stupid that piledriver was. It's certainly a move that can be done safely, but it's higher risk than most and just wasn't necessary.

However, Austin broke Chono's neck (I think it was him at least) with the very same move.

[Tom Guycott]

In a similar vain, nobody pays any attention to any wrestling wedding segment until the "speak now or forever hold your peace" line.

Pretty much subverted by Macho Man & Elizabeth. A whole PPV was sold on their wedding, which went off without a hitch... well, not counting them getting hitched... and no shit went down until well into the reception.

[Tom Guycott]

If you need an authority figure on the show at all, Regal is exactly the type of one I'd want. Someone who only occasionally appears because he's busy actually running the show.

There's been a heel authority figure in some form or another for over 20 years now and it's so beyond played out.

GM William Regal is the new President Jack Tunney. You see Regal, you know shit is going down... be it a match or a new signing. He's not opening the show every week just because.

[Tom Guycott]

Opponent A uses Opponent B's finish, Opponent B is guaranteed to kick out on a long two count.

Somebody must have won using the other guy's finish before but if they have, I ain't seen it.

Honestly, that's something that should be done every once in awhile just to legitimize it. A big key would be for the announcers to put it over as an act of desperation or poetic justice or whatever depending on the angle.

The only problem I can see happening is it becoming one of those things that nobody ever does, then after it happens once, you start seeing ALL the time instead of allowing it to remain a special rare happenstance.

[Tom Guycott]

How the sleeperhold leads into hope spot/cut off every fucking time.

better than it being a finish

Debatable. Just like with using another person's finish, when was the last time a sleeper was used to legit end the match? And I don't mean specialty clutches that specific submission wrestler x uses, I just mean random sleepers from random other people.

I say put them to sleep and let the hand drop three times every so often. Nobody would see that coming. Again, just don't do it ALL the time after and kill the charm.

[Tom Guycott]

Has no one mentioned “challenger beats champion in a non-title situation. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR SUNDAY!?!”

It might be the one that irks me most. It’s always been used to some extent and it was effective until the past 20 years or so where it has to happen in EVERY. SINGLE. TITLE. FEUD.

Moreso with the "ONE!!! TWO!!! WEHAVANEWCHAMPI- OHHHHHH, SO CLOSE!!!"

Every near fall. Every championship match. Every current announce team.

[Destor]

Debatable. Just like with using another person's finish, when was the last time a sleeper was used to legit end the match? And I don't mean specialty clutches that specific submission wrestler x uses, I just mean random sleepers from random other people.

I say put them to sleep and let the hand drop three times every so often. Nobody would see that coming. Again, just don't do it ALL the time after and kill the charm.
No one woukd poo for that. Too dull.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol HHH was using it as a finisher in 2002 for a while

[#1-norm-fan]

Moreso with the "ONE!!! TWO!!! WEHAVANEWCHAMPI- OHHHHHH, SO CLOSE!!!"

Every near fall. Every championship match. Every current announce team.

Lol Vince was the worst at that on commentary.

[#1-norm-fan]

I actually loved when Piper beat Hogan in WCW via the three hand drop. If for no other reason than Piper’s reaction. Even he was shocked that a match actually ended that way.

[Evil Vito]

No one woukd poo for that. Too dull.

I would hope not. When I hear about fans shitting on the finish that's not what I had in mind.

[Destor]

You know youre over when hitting your finish can be smelt across the entire arena

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Lol Vince was the worst at that on commentary.

"ONE! TWO! AND....oh no, I thought he had him."

[Tom Guycott]

Maybe so, but I think the former is more of a slippery slope.

Brian Alvarez commented on the backlash to Charlotte beating Asuka for the belt by saying it's just a prop and it doesn't matter. I think I immediately lost some respect for him with those comments.

Yes, from a very literal standpoint the belt is a prop. The audience knows this. But like everything in wrestling, the fans want to be made to forget that, through great storytelling. However, if you're too transparent about using a plot device to further the story, it takes people out of the tale you're trying to tell. This is true of any story telling medium.

Yes people were upset that Asuka's (poorly booked outside of her win against Becky) reign ended to further the other title's feud, but they were also upset because they chose to use a prop at the last minute to artificially enhance the feud in lieu of just telling a good story. I don't know how Brian couldn't see that.

Further more, it does matter how you book the belt. I know for a fact it does. Because when Omega finally beat Okada for the title, I felt something I hadn't felt since Benoit won the title at WM 20 and celebrated in the ring with Eddie. Conversely, when Bray Wyatt, my favorite worker in WWE at the time won the WWE title, I didn't care. Because they had done everything in their power to get me to not care about him over the years, and now they were using the title to try and sell me on him.

One company used the title to enhance the story they were telling. The other used the belt to tell the story, and everyone saw right through it.

It's funny because every time you're too blatant about using a belt to get a person or storyline over, people lose a little respect for that title, in turn having the oppisite effect of the desired outcome. And that's why no one gives a shit about WWE titles. Because they do this shit all the time.

Firstly, on the first point, you bash Alvarez for saying exactly what you go on to say in the next paragraph. Hm.

Secondly, the "just a prop" comment was exactly the same as me coming on here and calling it the "everyone gets a turn" belt. Same as me referring to the Cruiserweight Championship as the "this is all you are/this is all Vince thinks you are" belt. They ruined their own prestige with it, and by treating women's belts as props and trash so long, that it means next to nothing. And in their quest to try to bring prestige to said prop, they ironically go about it by making it look like more of a prop.

WWE has had a continued problem with making multiple titles seem legit at the same time. They can only focus on like two... maybe three at a time. Then, they'll shift focus to another set, and any work they may have possibly done to salvage some shine on whatever championship starts to slip down the shit slide of whogivesafuck because it becomes obvious it suddenly isn't as important anymore as thing other thing going on over there.

I am one who defends the brand split and having dual world champions. The problem with it isn't that having two champs is inherently stupid, it is that they don't even execute their own damn idea properly. Two shows with two independent rosters and sets of storylines and feuds. Instead, what you end up with is a lot of either copypasta (most blatantly with Riott Squad/Absolution debuts) or "oh shit, this person is a star, how can we work them onto BOTH shows?!?"

Both champions are supposed to be the top of their respective shows... but then you'll get shit like one guy wrestling every week, and the other guy making two appearances every Big Four PPV cycle.... both of which have their own pluses and minuses that deserve their own rant, but then they decide neither is a focus anymore because hey remember we have Tag Teams? Well, forget about that after this month, because it's all about the very historic Intercontenental... nah, nevermind, because we're going to put the United States Championship on our next big superstar and make BOTH SHOWS all about... THE WOMEN, so let's have all three women's championships matter right now... until we have this World Heavyweight match! Which belt though? Doesn't matter, because we're going to let the other go to shit while we put this one on our guy... wait, the other champion is more over now? Well fuck this guy then!

And on and on it goes.

I know and care who all the champs are in NXT. None of them are overexposed. None of them get any less true focus or come at the expense of the other champs. Hell, there's even occasional crossover with NXT UK- a "special" thing. All of their champions feel like champions, and are holding a symbol of prestige.

Most of the main roster are booked like mooks and holding on to a prop for a little bit until the winds change. And though the argument can be made- one I disagree with- that there are too many main roster championships, the bigger problem is that they're mostly treated like shit and with such indignity that even if they re-combined rosters and folded the championships into a way smaller number, they would still likely have the same issue of trash booking with a laser focus on one solitary championsip for any sustained amount of time contested for by bodies who have just been there for a few months and the company prob'ly forgot they had until Royal Rumble or Survivor Series where they need numbers.

They could make every belt they have - even the ridiculous 24/7 that's solely intended for comedy spots - look like they're worth having if they took the effort to. They just won't take the effort to.

[Tom Guycott]

Lol Vince was the worst at that on commentary.

"ONE! TWO! AND....oh no, I thought he had him."

But it has gone so far beyond just Vince. It isn't even strictly a WWE thing anymore. Watch Ring of Honor. Watch iMPACT. MLW... it's everywhere. Everyone does it. I get they're supposed to be conveying excitement, but it has gotten beyond cancerous.

This is pandemic.

I don't understand Japanese to confirm, but I'm almost willing to bet NJPW does it too. It's bothersome, but nobody doing it understands how bothersome it is because it's just a thing that's done.

[#1-norm-fan]

"ONE! TWO! AND....oh no, I thought he had him."

Lol It was usually much worse. He’d often spend the two count confirming the victory, praising the loser’s valiant effort and drawing up the contract for the new champion’s first title defence before a quiet “...no.”

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Damn now I'm craving new gen wwf just to hear Vince call near falls

[Tom Guycott]

No one woukd poo for that. Too dull.

I would hope not. When I hear about fans shitting on the finish that's not what I had in mind.

You know youre over when hitting your finish can be smelt across the entire arena

Is it bad that I'm such a huge nerd my first thought was Krillin's victory over Bacterian?

[Tom Guycott]

Damn now I'm craving new gen wwf just to hear Vince call near falls

Don't forget WHATAMANEUVERRRRRR!!

[Tom Guycott]

I was actually kinda stalling for time. Before my previous page post, I had a cliche nobody mentioned yet, but I forgot what I was going to say:

The corner ten. Usually ramming the head into the turnbuckle.

However, I also remember a period where Ric Flair would keep hitting his own head to about 15-20 after his opponent stopped doing anything, then stagger to center ring and Flair Flop. To a huge goddamn pop. Ric was like one of the only people in the history of ever who could possibly get away with that without getting any shit about it. Maybe Shawn Michaels could have. Maybe. But even he got called out for overselling occasionally.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Perfect would oversell a lot so he might've been able to pull it off. I dunno about getting up to the count of 15-20 but a few extra I think.

[Fignuts]

Firstly, on the first point, you bash Alvarez for saying exactly what you go on to say in the next paragraph. Hm.

I didn't bash him for calling it a prop. I bashed him for not understanding why so many people were upset with the title change.

[KIRA]

Don't forget WHATAMANEUVERRRRRR!!

The worst thing about that is he says that in an attempt to not calling move what it is it's ridiculous and his logic is calling a move by its name takes away from the story what a f****** idiot

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE treats its belts like props in the derogatory sense. That's not really debatable. Talking about how Charlotte getting the SD Women's Title is just a thing that is going to happen and not to think about it too much? That's just "lolWWE" stuff.'

That being said, the whole "prop" thing is a frustrating thing to me, just because "prop" doesn't necessarily need to be a bad word. The belts are props on their best days, but they can be props that mean something and are useful to telling the story. They can be more than a MacGuffin or set dressing. But that's just a semantics issue.

[Fignuts]

That’s what I was saying. It IS a prop, but when you treat it too blatantly as such, the story you’re trying to tell is going to suck hairy bastion booger balls.

[owenbrown]

No one mention the "heel puts face in abdominal stretch and gets help from the ropes/manager until they get caught by the ref" spot?

[#1-norm-fan]

The “prop” thing for belts is basically like the “fake” thing for wrestling in general. It’s true in the very literal sense of the word. But when someone is making it a point to say it, they’re always implying more than the literal definition. Also, they’re always a douche.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Losing a match and fans saying buried.

[Seanny One Ball]

Wrestling is fake and the only people who get upset about it are very insecure, especially the wrestlers themselves.

[Stickman]

Corporate hand picks their top guy even if the fans clearly disagree with the choice.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Wrestling is fake and the only people who get upset about it are very insecure, especially the wrestlers themselves.

You aren't 100% wrong, but it's similar to actors being protective of their character. Idris Elba wasn't thrilled with Stringer Bell getting killed and punked on the Wire. I think the plan was for him to get pissed on, but he nixed it due to his love of the character and, I'd assume ego.

[Seanny One Ball]

If you get paid to pretend then don't get upset when people say you are pretending. Just get better at it.
Actors and wrestlers "protecting their character" by getting angry when called on it are perfect examples of insecure humans, people too insecure to perceive the truth as anything other than a slight.

The butcher, the baker and the candlestick faker.

[Seanny One Ball]

Most people are insecure about the aspects of their work that are questionable or embarrassing in some way. It's just really obvious which part of wrestling is questionable and it's not like people heckle actors during a performance or magicians and if they do it's far far less likely than with a wrestler.

It's not even a bad thing really, it comes with the territory and is part of the unspoken agreement between audience and entertainer. Saying it's fake doesn't win you anything, reacting to the suggestion doesn't convince anybody you are any less fake.

People saying it's fake have every right to, just as the people performing have every right to. Pointing it out makes literally no difference to anything and certainly doesn't make someone a douche any more so than someone who gets paid to attempt to deceive you is a douche.

[Destor]

Wrestlers havent got uspet for people claling it fake on 20 years

[Seanny One Ball]

Don't type with your mouth full

[Destor]

My jand are way bigger than my phone

[Seanny One Ball]

WWF Fan was only half wrong really.

Douche? Yes, absolutely.
Implying more than the literal definition? Not on your Nelly!

[Fignuts]

If you get paid to pretend then don't get upset when people say you are pretending. Just get better at it.
Actors and wrestlers "protecting their character" by getting angry when called on it are perfect examples of insecure humans, people too insecure to perceive the truth as anything other than a slight.

The butcher, the baker and the candlestick faker.

Except it's business. The strength of a wrestler's character affects their ability to draw, and in turn, how much money they make.

[DaveWadding]

You aren't 100% wrong, but it's similar to actors being protective of their character. Idris Elba wasn't thrilled with Stringer Bell getting killed and punked on the Wire. I think the plan was for him to get pissed on, but he nixed it due to his love of the character and, I'd assume ego.

And he was right because Stringer was the best character on The Wire. Fight me.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And he was right because Stringer was the best character on The Wire. Fight me.

He was a favourite but I don't know if I have 1 best character from that show.

[#1-norm-fan]

WWF Fan was only half wrong really.

Douche? Yes, absolutely.
Implying more than the literal definition? Not on your Nelly!

Lol come on. When someone makes it a point to point out to someone “you know it’s fake”, they’re definitely implying more. That’s WHY the person pointing it out is always a douche.

[#1-norm-fan]

I’m not even arguing that people should be mad about it. That’s a whole different discussion. I’m just saying no one in 2019 is saying “It’s fake” for the sole purpose of revealing the big secret. There’s always an ulterior motive.

[Seanny One Ball]

The Ulterior Warrior

[Mr. Nerfect]

Except it's business. The strength of a wrestler's character affects their ability to draw, and in turn, how much money they make.

Exactly. I wish more people in wrestling got this today. It's not really en vogue to be into protecting your star. It can get to the point of detriment, which is why you need bookers and promoters who can keep egos like, say, a Hogan in check, but generally it's hard to emotionally invest in performers that aren't going to put sincere work into a character.

I’m not even arguing that people should be mad about it. That’s a whole different discussion. I’m just saying no one in 2019 is saying “It’s fake” for the sole purpose of revealing the big secret. There’s always an ulterior motive.

Yeah, you're making perfect sense.

[Seanny One Ball]

Should said nerfect sense.
No commitment to the gimmick. You hate to see it happen.

[Tom Guycott]

No one mention the "heel puts face in abdominal stretch and gets help from the ropes/manager until they get caught by the ref" spot?

I haven't seen that in ages, and would actually pop for it.

Bonus points if they dig the knuckle into the ribs.

2x bonus points if it is a tag team match, and instead of the ropes, the heel gets an assist from his partner.

[Gerard]

The "struggle" to get up a ladder in a ladder match and then act like there's not at least two more rungs to climb and instead reaching for the title when you are nowhere near it.




Yeah ladder matches always look hokey as fuck because of this, it's ok if you see it the odd time but you see it practically every time someone climbs the ladder from about the mid stage of the match onwards. Suppose it's no different from most "gimmick" matches as they get very formularic for the most part.

[Seanny One Ball]

The original Summerslam TLC ended with a fairly rapid climb up the ladder by Edge and Christian. That stays with me because of the abundance of ladder-top punch exchanges and trouser leg grabbing.

[Big Vic]

I always thought mankind had the safest piledriver but maybe not (seen here at 8:10)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3eW__OBlAG4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Destor]

that was super safe

[#1-norm-fan]

Watching OSW review of WrestleMania reminded me of another terrible one.

Someone “winning” a battle royal only for a forgotten participant to re-enter the ring.

It’s another thing that was cool on the rare occasion where it made sense but then WWE decided to needlessly use it CONSTANTLY and kill any fun it may have provided.

It happened in both the men’s and women’s battle royals at WrestleMania this year AND it’s been the finish of both women’s WrestleMania battle royals now.

[Innovator]

Watching OSW review of WrestleMania reminded me of another terrible one.

Someone “winning” a battle royal only for a forgotten participant to re-enter the ring.

It’s another thing that was cool on the rare occasion where it made sense but then WWE decided to needlessly use it CONSTANTLY and kill any fun it may have provided.

It happened in both the men’s and women’s battle royals at WrestleMania this year AND it’s been the finish of both women’s WrestleMania battle royals now.

Even AEW did a version of that

[xrodmuc316]

I got one, it's that every wrestler in WWE would be a giant star outside of WWE.

[#1-norm-fan]

Even AEW did a version of that

Wait, I do remember that. I had blocked that battle royal from my mind. Seriously, that needs to stop.

[#1-norm-fan]

I got one, it's that every wrestler in WWE would be a giant star outside of WWE.

:wtf:

[Destor]

I mean none of them are stars inside the WWE so maybe outside of it their odds will rise...?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wait, I do remember that. I had blocked that battle royal from my mind. Seriously, that needs to stop.

The placement of the comedy stuff on the All In show, and its inclusion on Double or Nothing makes me think that they think there is nothing wrong from switching from ha-ha to super-serious in the blink of an eye. Sometimes artists get this idea that their intention is always going to be perception.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I mean none of them are stars inside the WWE so maybe outside of it their odds will rise...?

:lol:

[Tom Guycott]

Watching OSW review of WrestleMania reminded me of another terrible one.

Someone “winning” a battle royal only for a forgotten participant to re-enter the ring.

It’s another thing that was cool on the rare occasion where it made sense but then WWE decided to needlessly use it CONSTANTLY and kill any fun it may have provided.

It happened in both the men’s and women’s battle royals at WrestleMania this year AND it’s been the finish of both women’s WrestleMania battle royals now.

Followed closely by a "controversial" finish where the last two hit the ground at the same time or some similar shit.

[Fignuts]

Or a face who's already been eliminated, pulling someone out.

Which should be a heel move.

i.e., cunt hogan

[Tom Guycott]

Another cliche is the "favorite" big man always gets jumped by everyone else. It either ends with him getting eliminated by the mob or the one-time display of strength when he bucks everyone off of him simultaneously, but then still gets eliminated later by like one or two guys.

[Tom Guycott]

No one mention the "heel puts face in abdominal stretch and gets help from the ropes/manager until they get caught by the ref" spot?

Haha, I just got reminded about this...

ROH TV, I just saw Silas Young comes down to the ring in an oldschool boxing robe, submit a guy with an abdominal stretch, and smoked a cig post match.