The WWE Future Endeavors Thread

[Bad News Gertner]

Gotta say, I agree with Destor

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You son of a...

[Destor]

i doubt you can site a situation i didnt side with individual responsibility for any scenario including wokism. im a very consistent person.

[Destor]

and i believe the way you should treat people is by honoring your agreements and demanding excellence. we all benifit from that. employee, employer and consumer.

[Destor]

Gotta say, I agree with Destor#metoo

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I certainly don’t feel bad for talent voluntarily signing shitty deals. The reality is that until two years ago that was the best bet. What I feel bad for is talent like Keith Lee getting cut off at the knees and not being given a real chance. But even then, he’s going to be fine and getting released was a good thing for him.

[XL]

and i believe the way you should treat people is by honoring your agreements and demanding excellence. we all benifit from that. <s>employee</s> Independent Contractor, employer and consumer.

[Destor]

that should absolutely be taken to court. hasnt happened in 50 years thpugh

[Destor]

(but there's nothing about being an independent contractor that makes anything i said an exclusion)

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Didn’t del Rio take them to court to get around his 90 day clause

[XL]

(but there's nothing about being an independent contractor that makes anything i said an exclusion)

Oh absolutely. However you seem to be applying very “real world” ideals to something as idiosyncratic as professsional wrestling.

My ability to do my job to the required standard isn’t as hampered by the powers that want me to do the job to the required standard. What about Keith Lee or Karrion Kross’ main roster runs suggests they were set up to succeed? You can easily say “they’re not stars”, “they never had IT”, “I don’t see it”, “they didn’t take advantage of the opportunity” but come on.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh absolutely. However you seem to be applying very “real world” ideals to something as idiosyncratic as professsional wrestling.

My ability to do my job to the required standard isn’t as hampered by the powers that want me to do the job to the required standard. What about Keith Lee or Karrion Kross’ main roster runs suggests they were set up to succeed? You can easily say “they’re not stars”, “they never had IT”, “I don’t see it”, “they didn’t take advantage of the opportunity” but come on.

Everyone wants to blame the office. Keith Lee and Karrion Kross were not that good. Keith Lee was brought in and immediately worked with Randy Orton. He was in the 5 vs. 5 match at Survivor Series. He got the Brock spot in the Royal Rumble. They tried to put him in top positions against top guys to produce top work. He’s not a young guy and his psychology is kind of spotty for what they want for a “big boy” (as Brock called him). His promos aren’t good either. Yeah, the company could have moved heaven and earth for him, but come on — at some point you’ve got to connect.

Karrion Kross got his chances too. They gave him promo time. Not the best push or presentation in the world, by any stretch. But for a guy that is supposed to be a “monster,” he isn’t that big and comes off as really generic to me. If he hit it out of the park and was really dynamic, he might have been given more chance to stick around. But again, I don’t know how many mountains you want to move for a guy who doesn’t do anything outstanding.

[Sepholio]

Much to the disdain of The Bastardly One, I too side with Destor here.

The contracts are shit. We get it. Don't sign it then. If more people refused to sign those contracts maybe WWE would be forced to approach them differently with better options on the table. But you can pretty much count the number of people who refused to sign it on 1 hand; as long as 99% of them continue to sign the shitty deal it's going to remain a shitty deal because there is no impetus for WWE to make it better.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

WWE changing their approach to hiring and developing talent likely means they won’t change their approach to contracts any time soon. They would have to be spurned by countless would be free agent signings and given the direction they’re taking their talent pipeline I don’t see that happening any time soon.

[Destor]

seems like we all agree the contracts are shit at least

[xrodmuc316]

seems like we all agree the contracts are shit at least

100% yes

[xrodmuc316]

WWE changing their approach to hiring and developing talent likely means they won’t change their approach to contracts any time soon. They would have to be spurned by countless would be free agent signings and given the direction they’re taking their talent pipeline I don’t see that happening any time soon.

This is a great point. I was thinking about this, but if they are going to be recruiting young people to train from scratch from a pool of Collegiate athletes or Olympians, those guys historically get better contracts than guys coming from a pro wrestling background anyways, so they would be less likely to turn WWE down.

[Vastardikai]

Everyone wants to blame the office. Keith Lee and Karrion Kross were not that good. Keith Lee was brought in and immediately worked with Randy Orton. He was in the 5 vs. 5 match at Survivor Series. He got the Brock spot in the Royal Rumble. They tried to put him in top positions against top guys to produce top work. He’s not a young guy and his psychology is kind of spotty for what they want for a “big boy” (as Brock called him). His promos aren’t good either. Yeah, the company could have moved heaven and earth for him, but come on — at some point you’ve got to connect.

Karrion Kross got his chances too. They gave him promo time. Not the best push or presentation in the world, by any stretch. But for a guy that is supposed to be a “monster,” he isn’t that big and comes off as really generic to me. If he hit it out of the park and was really dynamic, he might have been given more chance to stick around. But again, I don’t know how many mountains you want to move for a guy who doesn’t do anything outstanding.

Something I mentioned on other forums, but I feel like it applies here: Keith Lee is two years older than Big E. However, Big E looks about 7 years younger than 35, but Lee looks about 10-15 years older than 37. Like, he looks like he could be Big E's father. Maybe that's the true "Power of Positivity."

Kross is just a generic fuck who looks like a bad CAW created by some edgy teenager. All of his personality is stored in his wife. I believe he was good friends with Drake whatever his name was, the Qanon Ref. Hence the whole Anti-Vax thing. I'm sure that made him a real peach to be around (there's been talk of his attitude much like Lee's). I wouldn't doubt that he felt like the only way they could use Scarlett was if she was with him, and WWE just decided not to bother with either of them. If that is the case, it would make him significantly dumber than Candido, Mero, and Morrison put together. But that part is speculation.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

What has been said about Lee’s attitude?

[Damian Rey 2.0]

And Lmaooo at noid. I’m sure it’s Lee’s fault for not connecting surely only winning 1 match out of a combined 7 matches against Orton, Braun and McIntyre, while losing 4 and having 2 no finishes, gave him every chance to get over and look like a huge star. And that was just his 2020 on TV And ppv.

In 2021, he traded wins with Kross, who was DOA his first night, and beat such huge names as Akira Tozawa and Cedric Alexander. The only name he beat this year that’s actually been somewhat protected or at least regularly featured is Riddle.

The only thing they seemed to have established was that Lee will have some moments but is mostly a jobber who isn’t good enough to beat those guys. That’s not doing a talent favors if you’re trying to get them over as a big name player.

Don’t understand how anyone could blame Lee for not succeeding given that he was never booked to be a big deal.

[Tom Guycott]

These all sound like pretty sensible cuts. WWE are monsters if they hire everybody, but they are also monsters if they dare fire anyone they aren’t using or don’t want to use anymore. It’s crazy how quickly people got used to WWE never releasing anyone (even though they should have), and now act like it’s some crazy thing when what is essentially a talent search program cuts people.

I think talent should be able to get out of their deals too, for the record. But acting like WWE are villains in this is a bit much. They gave this talent chances (in their own world) and they didn’t live up to it.

Also, just because your profit margin is huge doesn’t mean you don’t have a budget. I hear Alvarez get on them for that every time this sort of things happen. If you want to cap your talent expenses at a certain amount, that is entirely your prerogative. It’s got nothing to do with your profit margin (other than you being able to afford it).

Here's the thing about that: the primary problem comes from using the excuse about budgetary cuts like your're hemorrhaging money, but then coming out with major profits when the financials come out. At the very least, it's a bad look when you cry poor, and wipe away the tears with way more cash than you made last year.

The optics of that are one of two things: you're either doing something unsustainable while trying to continue the illusion that you make record profits, or you just don't give a fuck about your EMPLOYEES* at all.


Vince ixnayed her coming up with Kross, saying she was "too hokey".

He was entirely right tbf. Could they not just have asked her to tone it down though?

minus the lip syncing, i thought she was perfect with kross in nxt. liked her more than him.

Yeah, Scarlett was too hokey, but dressing Kross up like MasterBlaster without the midget on his back was apparently "good shit!" They could have tweaked shit with them, because that was already a ready-made package that could've used polish. Instead, they have to completely fuck with everything, and when that didn't go over well, it's somehow the fault of the talent.


Everyone wants to blame the office. Keith Lee and Karrion Kross were not that good. Keith Lee was brought in and immediately worked with Randy Orton. He was in the 5 vs. 5 match at Survivor Series. He got the Brock spot in the Royal Rumble. They tried to put him in top positions against top guys to produce top work. He’s not a young guy and his psychology is kind of spotty for what they want for a “big boy” (as Brock called him). His promos aren’t good either. Yeah, the company could have moved heaven and earth for him, but come on — at some point you’ve got to connect.

Karrion Kross got his chances too. They gave him promo time. Not the best push or presentation in the world, by any stretch. But for a guy that is supposed to be a “monster,” he isn’t that big and comes off as really generic to me. If he hit it out of the park and was really dynamic, he might have been given more chance to stick around. But again, I don’t know how many mountains you want to move for a guy who doesn’t do anything outstanding.

The bigger issue here, though, is that they (WWE) have gotten to the point that they have deluded themselves into wanting instant gratification and THINK they can generate that themselves.

Let's not even specify anyone, let's make up a hypothetical amalgamation. Imagine Wrestler X has made a name for himself on the indys. And I don't mean as Flippy McKickpads, I mean a solid guy who can go bell to bell. This ficticious person looks like Ultimate Warrior in his prime, wrestles similar to Mr. Perfect, and has the gift of gab to rival Paul E line for line. They spend two years in NXT, and has a natural progression from nobody to NXT Champion. Has a following, and some catchphrase or some shit that nets him a unique marketable chant. These are all things you'd think would add up to an impossible to fuck up main roster talent that they can pad their ranks with.

Then he gets called up to RAW, and he suddenly wears coveralls to hide the physique. He gets the Sin Cara mood lighting. He gets no promo time. He jobs every other week in squash matches. Fans barely get a chance to do the chant. Complete 180 from what fans were witnessing for two years. Finally, Vince goes "nah, I don't see it", and this guy is out on his ass.

This isn't specifically about or limited to Kross and Keith, or anyone on this current slate of releases... but since they're here:

I've said from day one that *I* personally don't see the attraction with Keith Lee. I could never divorce him from being Shane Taylor's tag team partner in RoH. They were both generic big guys to me. However, I could clearly see Keith Lee was getting traction in NXT. Also, matches with Randy Orton shouldn't exactly be a barometer of success in WWE, since he does have a record of derailing pushes if *he* didn't like the match no matter what came before or after. They kepts trying to fuck with his gear, his gimmick, and his NAME instead of just letting him be.

As stated earlier, Kross and Scarlett were a package already. He wasn't the absolute best on the stick, but it wasn't like he was absolute ass, either. But the whole "If it ain't broke... let's break it" company mentality still won out, even though it wasn't the way most of us predicted (face it, most of you were like me and figured they would push Scarlett beyond Mars and Karrion Kross would get the Marc Mero treatment unless she got pregnant like Maria Kanellis did).

It makes no sense to try to "create new stars", while either simultaneously rejecting or actively fucking with all these supposed new stars. They start latching onto the barest handful of moneymakers and humping them dry for about a decade and then calling back people who have moved on to try to trade on the nostalgia that they themselves don't even actively educate their fans on. There's going to come a day where nobody knows who Stone Cold Steve Austin is.

It's easy to say about anyone who gets released everytime releases happen things like there was "nothing special about them" or "nothing of value was lost", but there is something of value lost. These people aren't supposed to be interchangable actors that can be plugged in anywhere and replaced like a car part. Hell, actors aren't even often interchangeable actors. Fans usually have shitfits if a show is recast or hilarity ensues with a big-budget film getting direct to video sequels with a very different person playing the lead role of who is supposedly the same guy.

WWE has very greatly distanced themselves from what they actually are so much over the last couple of decades. You have all the Vince-isms of "don't call it a belt" and a bunch of shit worded in ways that people don't actually speak. You have a maniac in the truck in love with sickening camerawork and a new toy in the last couple of years in the whole AR floating entrance shit. You have a bunch of people in suits who aren't even fans of the business they're in telling people who are supposed to be the product that they aren't suited to be the product because reasons. Or that someone who is so green that they could literally kill someone/themselves in the ring that they're good to go because they "look good on camera", or tell a top draw their voice is terrible, or a littany of other things. It's an unweildy corporate entity that seems to be actively trying to somehow simultaneously sustain their viewership, grow their profits, yet drive fans away by making them not care or invest in anyone because nobody will be invested into long enough for anyone to actively care about.

[xrodmuc316]

Kross was very much not keeping it simple. He was best as a rage filled mauler. The entrance and presentation, followed by just destroying people, it worked. Then they had him start cutting weird promos, and even worse once they brought him to the main roster they took everything that worked away. No Scarlett, no black and white entrance, then they made him a Samari, then a psycho, then released him, all within a span of about 2 months.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Here's the thing about that: the primary problem comes from using the excuse about budgetary cuts like your're hemorrhaging money, but then coming out with major profits when the financials come out. At the very least, it's a bad look when you cry poor, and wipe away the tears with way more cash than you made last year.

The optics of that are one of two things: you're either doing something unsustainable while trying to continue the illusion that you make record profits, or you just don't give a fuck about your EMPLOYEES* at all.

No one is crying poor. Having $200 million in spare cash doesn’t mean your budget is $200 million. Just because you are rolling in dough doesn’t mean streamlining your talent roster is inherently counterintuitive.



The bigger issue here, though, is that they (WWE) have gotten to the point that they have deluded themselves into wanting instant gratification and THINK they can generate that themselves.

Let's not even specify anyone, let's make up a hypothetical amalgamation. Imagine Wrestler X has made a name for himself on the indys. And I don't mean as Flippy McKickpads, I mean a solid guy who can go bell to bell. This ficticious person looks like Ultimate Warrior in his prime, wrestles similar to Mr. Perfect, and has the gift of gab to rival Paul E line for line. They spend two years in NXT, and has a natural progression from nobody to NXT Champion. Has a following, and some catchphrase or some shit that nets him a unique marketable chant. These are all things you'd think would add up to an impossible to fuck up main roster talent that they can pad their ranks with.

Then he gets called up to RAW, and he suddenly wears coveralls to hide the physique. He gets the Sin Cara mood lighting. He gets no promo time. He jobs every other week in squash matches. Fans barely get a chance to do the chant. Complete 180 from what fans were witnessing for two years. Finally, Vince goes "nah, I don't see it", and this guy is out on his ass.

This isn't specifically about or limited to Kross and Keith, or anyone on this current slate of releases... but since they're here:

I've said from day one that *I* personally don't see the attraction with Keith Lee. I could never divorce him from being Shane Taylor's tag team partner in RoH. They were both generic big guys to me. However, I could clearly see Keith Lee was getting traction in NXT. Also, matches with Randy Orton shouldn't exactly be a barometer of success in WWE, since he does have a record of derailing pushes if *he* didn't like the match no matter what came before or after. They kepts trying to fuck with his gear, his gimmick, and his NAME instead of just letting him be.

As stated earlier, Kross and Scarlett were a package already. He wasn't the absolute best on the stick, but it wasn't like he was absolute ass, either. But the whole "If it ain't broke... let's break it" company mentality still won out, even though it wasn't the way most of us predicted (face it, most of you were like me and figured they would push Scarlett beyond Mars and Karrion Kross would get the Marc Mero treatment unless she got pregnant like Maria Kanellis did).

It makes no sense to try to "create new stars", while either simultaneously rejecting or actively fucking with all these supposed new stars. They start latching onto the barest handful of moneymakers and humping them dry for about a decade and then calling back people who have moved on to try to trade on the nostalgia that they themselves don't even actively educate their fans on. There's going to come a day where nobody knows who Stone Cold Steve Austin is.

It's easy to say about anyone who gets released everytime releases happen things like there was "nothing special about them" or "nothing of value was lost", but there is something of value lost. These people aren't supposed to be interchangable actors that can be plugged in anywhere and replaced like a car part. Hell, actors aren't even often interchangeable actors. Fans usually have shitfits if a show is recast or hilarity ensues with a big-budget film getting direct to video sequels with a very different person playing the lead role of who is supposedly the same guy.

WWE has very greatly distanced themselves from what they actually are so much over the last couple of decades. You have all the Vince-isms of "don't call it a belt" and a bunch of shit worded in ways that people don't actually speak. You have a maniac in the truck in love with sickening camerawork and a new toy in the last couple of years in the whole AR floating entrance shit. You have a bunch of people in suits who aren't even fans of the business they're in telling people who are supposed to be the product that they aren't suited to be the product because reasons. Or that someone who is so green that they could literally kill someone/themselves in the ring that they're good to go because they "look good on camera", or tell a top draw their voice is terrible, or a littany of other things. It's an unweildy corporate entity that seems to be actively trying to somehow simultaneously sustain their viewership, grow their profits, yet drive fans away by making them not care or invest in anyone because nobody will be invested into long enough for anyone to actively care about.

I hate being pushed into the position where I am defending this company, but who is that perfect wrestler? I’m not saying the WWE doesn’t miss the boat on talent. They obviously do. But not everyone they miss is this giant missed opportunity either. I used to think that way, but it’s just so wrong.

Most of the people being released do kind of fit that Flippy McKickpads description. Or they’re just the shits in the ring.

There are people who do, somehow, get over in this environment. Drew McIntyre, the Street Profits, Bianca Belair. I would love for the WWE to be calibrated to my tastes as a fan. I’d love for it to lose the forced promos, terrible tropes and be booked like proper pro-wrestling. God knows I’m hungry for it. But people act as if it’s impossible to be good at your job in this environment.

[GD]

Karrion Kross got his chances too. They gave him promo time. Not the best push or presentation in the world, by any stretch. But for a guy that is supposed to be a “monster,” he isn’t that big and comes off as really generic to me. If he hit it out of the park and was really dynamic, he might have been given more chance to stick around. But again, I don’t know how many mountains you want to move for a guy who doesn’t do anything outstanding.

This has to be the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Really tells you how far certain people will go with their hot takes. While I'm not a Kross fan, he did not get a fair chance. His presentation which made him special was greatly altered and he was separated from his wife/valet. Not to mention that his undefeated streak was killed off in a 2-minute nothing match on RAW while he was the champion. Then he was saddled with one of the most cringe-worthy gimmicks in recent times. For someone who rambles on about perception being key, this has to be one of the dumbest takes in a while. Absolutely cringe inducing stuff.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wade Keller is reporting that even supporters of Keith Lee are saying he did have a bit of an attitude problem, or at least a “perceived” one. Say what you will about his booking, but there are variables that go into how you are going to fit that environment that fans don’t see.

[screech]

Here's the thing about that: the primary problem comes from using the excuse about budgetary cuts like your're hemorrhaging money, but then coming out with major profits when the financials come out. At the very least, it's a bad look when you cry poor, and wipe away the tears with way more cash than you made last year.

This is where I land on the issue too. If you cut someone because "you're not connecting with the crowd" or "creative has nothing for you" that's one thing. But to claim it's for budget cuts when you're making money hand over fist is, at the very least, shitty optics.

[drave]

Kross was never impressive, even in NXT. His entrance and music were move over than anything.


I strongly recall him beating Balor with that stupid ass forearm to the back of the neck. I don't buy the dude as some beast. They REALLY fucked him on the main roster with all the changes, too. Oh well, he wasn't that great, certainly not as good as Balor.

[screech]

I thought he was presented well in NXT [mostly because of the entrance and his laaaddyyyy, but anyway]. But as soon as he stood across from Jeff Hardy on RAW and I realized they're kinda the same size, I knew he was done. Or at least, there was no chance of recapturing whatever he had that got him going in NXT.

[GD]

Kross was never impressive, even in NXT. His entrance and music were move over than anything.


I strongly recall him beating Balor with that stupid ass forearm to the back of the neck. I don't buy the dude as some beast. They REALLY fucked him on the main roster with all the changes, too. Oh well, he wasn't that great, certainly not as good as Balor.


I am not a fan of Kross either. But to suggest that he got a fair shot on the main roster is utter nonsense. That’s the issue I have with Nerfect’s post.

[drave]

So direct your post at Nerfect? I didn't say anything related to your post.


It was painfully obvious he was never going to cut it on the main roster anyway.

[Destor]

whats a fair shot and why are people entitled to it

[GD]

So direct your post at Nerfect? I didn't say anything related to your post.


It was painfully obvious he was never going to cut it on the main roster anyway.

Nerfect and I are not on talking terms anymore :o

[drave]

Nerfect and I are not on talking terms anymore :o


Then stop invoking his name, especially when it's not even related.

[XL]

What do you think the outcome would be if one of these dudes just turned up on AEW, no compete be damned?

WWE takes them to court for breaking contract. People start taking a look at the whole “independent contractor” deal? Is that a can of worms WWE want to open?

[screech]

What do you think the outcome would be if one of these dudes just turned up on AEW, no compete be damned?

WWE takes them to court for breaking contract. People start taking a look at the whole “independent contractor” deal? Is that a can of worms WWE want to open?

Part of me thinks it depends who it is. If it's a midcard guy? Maybe WWE won't bother. But if a bigger name gets cut on Monday and shows up on Dynamite Wednesday? That'd probably be an issue.

(This could all be bullshit and WWE could go after anyone who does that. But I feel like they "couldn't care less" if like, Lince Dorado popped up on Dynamite or Rampage in the next few days.)

[Bad News Gertner]

Then stop invoking his name, especially when it's not even related.

She's a drama queen

[James Steele]

What do you think the outcome would be if one of these dudes just turned up on AEW, no compete be damned?

WWE takes them to court for breaking contract. People start taking a look at the whole “independent contractor” deal? Is that a can of worms WWE want to open?

The wrestler would go broke from the legal process and that's why they are fearful to challenge it.

[GD]

She's a drama queen

Thanks for acknowledging me, King ;)

[Fignuts]

whats a fair shot and why are people entitled to it

They're not.

I think the better argument is that when someone does start to gain momentum, WWE has a habit of cutting their legs out from under them for no apparent reason.

[Destor]

its a terrible habit of theirs. horrible booking and they do it all the time.

[GD]

They're not.

I think the better argument is that when someone does start to gain momentum, WWE has a habit of cutting their legs out from under them for no apparent reason.

Agreed. Simply turrible.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This is where I land on the issue too. If you cut someone because "you're not connecting with the crowd" or "creative has nothing for you" that's one thing. But to claim it's for budget cuts when you're making money hand over fist is, at the very least, shitty optics.

The company got shit all the time for not having anything for people. Or would be blamed for guys not connecting. If the WWE just came out and said “We don’t want you here anymore and it’s our prerogative who we pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to” people would still whinge.

I still don’t get the budget cut = they’re broke argument. Just because you can afford something doesn’t mean you have an expansive budget. Especially if you are trying to get elements of your business under control that would not necessarily be profitable if you were to lose major revenue streams.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I thought he was presented well in NXT [mostly because of the entrance and his laaaddyyyy, but anyway]. But as soon as he stood across from Jeff Hardy on RAW and I realized they're kinda the same size, I knew he was done. Or at least, there was no chance of recapturing whatever he had that got him going in NXT.

Yeah, he was framed well in NXT. I agree with drave in that I was never on-board, but he just can’t be a big fish in a small pond up on the main roster.

There’s a case of the Mike Awesomes with him. Everyone who saw Awesome in ECW thought of him as a big guy. Then when he shows up in the WWF you realize that he looks smaller than Bradshaw.

I also wonder if there was a case of the Mike Bennetts with him too. I think Vince has a guy hyped to him as being so very much in the WWE mold. Then he sees them and is like “That’s it? That’s him?!”

[xrodmuc316]

What do you think the outcome would be if one of these dudes just turned up on AEW, no compete be damned?

WWE takes them to court for breaking contract. People start taking a look at the whole “independent contractor” deal? Is that a can of worms WWE want to open?

I think the issue is WWE is still paying them during those 90 days. That is why they keep their WWE Twitter handles until that 90 days are up. Logically I would rather keep getting paid and not have to pay legal fees.

That said, Brock Lesnar already won a court case over WWE's non compete clause, but he even said it cost him a lot of money. In his case, so what because he could make 10 times more in New Japan and UFC than his legal fees, but nobody else has that unique earning power to command $10-$15 million a year.

[Vastardikai]

Keith Lee and Karrion Kross got shitty gimmicks on the main roster? Yes, they did. But guess what? I know of one guy who had shittier gimmicks than both of them. I am talking about an Ex-Rugby Player. I am talking about his only personality quality was that he spoke 5 languages. I am talking about whatever the fuck that yodeling thing was.

And guess what? Cesaro's still around. He'll likely never be WWE Champion. He isn't the poster child of charisma. All of that said, he seems like one of the most universally liked guys in WWE, and he's versatile enough that he can be plugged into almost any spot and it works. Main Eventer needs some down time? Put him in a tag team with Cesaro. Heel needs to get his heat back? Put him in there with Cesaro. And Creative always seems to have something for him (apart from recently, but he did have a rather talked about bout with Walter recently). And he never seems to be on the list of people who might get cut. Talent plays a fairly big role, but I think attitude plays a bigger one.

[Destor]

Cesaro is a good hand. he gets the people he works with over.

[M-A-G]

I think the issue is WWE is still paying them during those 90 days. That is why they keep their WWE Twitter handles until that 90 days are up. Logically I would rather keep getting paid and not have to pay legal fees.

That said, Brock Lesnar already won a court case over WWE's non compete clause, but he even said it cost him a lot of money. In his case, so what because he could make 10 times more in New Japan and UFC than his legal fees, but nobody else has that unique earning power to command $10-$15 million a year.

Hey, this brings up a question and forgive me for my ignorance but are the talent required to have a Twitter account/handle while being a contracted talent? Because, you know, ew.

[Vastardikai]

Cesaro is a good hand. he gets the people he works with over.

There's always a place in the wrestling business for a good hand. He'll almost certainly be a trainer in the Performance Center after his WWE run is over.

I would argue that Big E is another example of attitude keeping someone around. He was just kind of there from his debut. They gave him the one big babyface run that fizzled. He was kind of just being used as a very buff jobber. He could have very easily been cut after he lost the IC title, but everyone seems to like him, as well. And he got another chance from there became part of one of the biggest draws in the WWE.

I am ultimately saying that having a good attitude in WWE can give you chances that having all the talent in the world won't.

[xrodmuc316]

Hey, this brings up a question and forgive me for my ignorance but are the talent required to have a Twitter account/handle while being a contracted talent? Because, you know, ew.

I don't think they "have to" have to, but I think it is strongly encouraged. Clearly some guys have way more freedom to post what they want than others.

[Tom Guycott]

No one is crying poor. Having $200 million in spare cash doesn’t mean your budget is $200 million. Just because you are rolling in dough doesn’t mean streamlining your talent roster is inherently counterintuitive.

When "budget concerns" is a phrase used, the implication is that you're overspending. Again, you either shouldn't have thrown that money around to begin with, or you're using that as an excuse... and the money you "save" looks like extra in the coffers.

If the talent isn't that valuable to you, then don't throw that value out there. This isn't limited to this particular crop of cuts, or even this field.

You act as if folks are saying they should be spending every dime they're making. Not the point at all. However, using that $200 million example, if you're spending $50 million, you're still up $150 million. There isn't really a dire need to save that chunk of cash just to make it look better on paper. If you have it to spend, and contracted people on the promise of it, then you go "Whoops, I don't actually have the money to give you, bye!" then turn around and brag about making $200 million. That sounds like a crock of shit to the folks you just kicked to the curb. Especially to ones that don't even get the chance to see any supposed return on investment because you changed your mind on investing in them.

Instead, it sounds more like an empty excuse. Much like when people used the phrase "in this economy..." around the 2008 housing bubble burst, even when the job wasn't even tangentially connected to the mortgage crisis at all. "Budgetary concerns" is almost a corporate way of saying "I could pay you, but I don't feel like it because profit margins" in fewer words and trying to dress it up like it can't be helped even if it can.

One thing their change in hiring philosophy will hopefully eliminate is their need to warehouse people and waste their time and careers just so someone else can't have them that they've been doing for about two decades or so now. Small solace, but still a minuscule plus.


I hate being pushed into the position where I am defending this company, but who is that perfect wrestler? I’m not saying the WWE doesn’t miss the boat on talent. They obviously do. But not everyone they miss is this giant missed opportunity either. I used to think that way, but it’s just so wrong.

Most of the people being released do kind of fit that Flippy McKickpads description. Or they’re just the shits in the ring.

There are people who do, somehow, get over in this environment. Drew McIntyre, the Street Profits, Bianca Belair. I would love for the WWE to be calibrated to my tastes as a fan. I’d love for it to lose the forced promos, terrible tropes and be booked like proper pro-wrestling. God knows I’m hungry for it. But people act as if it’s impossible to be good at your job in this environment.

Asking "who that perfect wrester" is basically just rode past the entire point of it being a hypothetical, can't-miss person that WWE would find a way to completely fuck up. It wasn't anyone in particular: they prob'ly don't exist. And if they did, I say again, WWE would likely fuck them up.

A thing I've said for years is that they are so intent on trying to find the next Hulk Hogan, that they'll overlook the next Rick Rudes, or Roddy Pipers, or a litany of other past top stars in their blind pursuit to not only find that cash cow figurehead, but somehow copy and paste them. That's not how any of that works, but it feels like nobody can tell Vince and company that.

I've also said that my decline in interest in WWE television started in the throes of the Smackdown Six era brand split. Smackdown had overtaken RAW in interest, ratings, match quality, and goddamn storytelling. It was done over time, and with talent that was supposedly for the most part subpar to who was on "the flagship". Heyman took that supposed chicken shit and made state fair quality chicken salad. And instead of having RAW do that same shit with the supposedly superior crop of talent, they instead just started poaching the people who were now over and have them appear on Monday nights and still put the same crummy effort into getting any of the stars they supposedly already had over. Nowadays, it's like they're mostly treating everyone like they're RAW talent from that era, and most of the NXT call-ups have been actively fucked with in one way or another at the transition if they even get called at all.

And being "the shits in the ring" is relative. Yes, I'm glad they got rid of the potentially lethal cancer that was Eva Marie again, but they still have Baron Corbin. Some of them were too new. Some of them never got an opportunity to be anything other than background bland. And the people who can and do stand out get meddled with. Again, something that happens most release cycles.

I'm actually not as excited about Steiner as I should be, because I'm just waiting for the punchline- that moment where they have someone that has future star written all over him, but somehow drop the boat and have him gone in the next eight months.

Overall, this isn't an indictment of the here and now. It's and ongoing gripe with WWE in general that has been happening for ages.

[Tom Guycott]

whats a fair shot and why are people entitled to it

Sounds like the title of another book written by Whitey McSportsfan.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJNH8MPWsAEkkFH.png

[Tom Guycott]

There's always a place in the wrestling business for a good hand. He'll almost certainly be a trainer in the Performance Center after his WWE run is over.

I would argue that Big E is another example of attitude keeping someone around. He was just kind of there from his debut. They gave him the one big babyface run that fizzled. He was kind of just being used as a very buff jobber. He could have very easily been cut after he lost the IC title, but everyone seems to like him, as well. And he got another chance from there became part of one of the biggest draws in the WWE.

I am ultimately saying that having a good attitude in WWE can give you chances that having all the talent in the world won't.

Even with that, though, it wasn't from lack of trying to fuck him up.

He was another one who was over in NXT even in that short stay. But they totally dropped the 5 count gimmick on the main roster presumably because they didn't want to educate fans on who the fuck King Kong Bundy was (much like never mentioning the goddamn Freebird Rule except in the ingredients list of the New Day t-shirt cereal box). They just made him mute and stuck him with Ziggles for zero reason, stripping out what was already working.

Then, even later, there was the point in time at the beginning of New Day where all three of them were on the chopping block because the bullshit forced babyface thing wasn't working, and they had to beg Vince to turn heel, which was exactly what they needed to start down the road to where they are now.

Even with someone like Big E, and him being an okay dude, it seems really hard for the company to get out of their own goddamn way.

[Fignuts]

Sounds like the title of another book written by Whitey McSportsfan.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJNH8MPWsAEkkFH.png

Awful comparison.

[Destor]

ill buy 10 copies

[Vastardikai]

Even with that, though, it wasn't from lack of trying to fuck him up.

He was another one who was over in NXT even in that short stay. But they totally dropped the 5 count gimmick on the main roster presumably because they didn't want to educate fans on who the fuck King Kong Bundy was (much like never mentioning the goddamn Freebird Rule except in the ingredients list of the New Day t-shirt cereal box). They just made him mute and stuck him with Ziggles for zero reason, stripping out what was already working.

Then, even later, there was the point in time at the beginning of New Day where all three of them were on the chopping block because the bullshit forced babyface thing wasn't working, and they had to beg Vince to turn heel, which was exactly what they needed to start down the road to where they are now.

Even with someone like Big E, and him being an okay dude, it seems really hard for the company to get out of their own goddamn way.

No one should expect that anything that works at NXT and their small, niche crowd will translate to working on the bigger, mainstream audience. Things that worked in NXT: Adam Rose and Emma's bad dancer gimmick.

They dropped the 5 count gimmick because they didn't need an awkward guy ripping off King Kong Bundy at the time. They need a guy to be muscle for Dolph Ziggler. And he was a massive dude who could fill that role.

As for your last point, this sounds like bitching because they gave Steve Austin "The Ringmaster" gimmick off the bat and he suggested tweaks to make it work. This is the thing about attitude I'm talking about: They could have very easily just bitched about the shitty hand they were dealt and they'd have been released. Instead, they believed in themselves and what they were doing, saw what wasn't working, and suggested tweaks to make it work.

That's not a failure on Creative's end. That is what separates the folks who are forgotten about from the biggest stars in wrestling. These folks would rather piss and moan than fight and prove that they want this shit. Sometimes that means suggesting changes. Sometimes, that means learning how to fucking yodel.

[Sepholio]

Yodelayheehoo

[M-A-G]

I don't think they "have to" have to, but I think it is strongly encouraged. Clearly some guys have way more freedom to post what they want than others.

I think I'd rather work in 2000-era WCW than be pressured into using Twitter.

[Sepholio]

I don't even have to think about that. I'll take a finger poke of doom from David Arquette.

[Mr. Nerfect]

When "budget concerns" is a phrase used, the implication is that you're overspending. Again, you either shouldn't have thrown that money around to begin with, or you're using that as an excuse... and the money you "save" looks like extra in the coffers.

If the talent isn't that valuable to you, then don't throw that value out there. This isn't limited to this particular crop of cuts, or even this field.

You act as if folks are saying they should be spending every dime they're making. Not the point at all. However, using that $200 million example, if you're spending $50 million, you're still up $150 million. There isn't really a dire need to save that chunk of cash just to make it look better on paper. If you have it to spend, and contracted people on the promise of it, then you go "Whoops, I don't actually have the money to give you, bye!" then turn around and brag about making $200 million. That sounds like a crock of shit to the folks you just kicked to the curb. Especially to ones that don't even get the chance to see any supposed return on investment because you changed your mind on investing in them.

Instead, it sounds more like an empty excuse. Much like when people used the phrase "in this economy..." around the 2008 housing bubble burst, even when the job wasn't even tangentially connected to the mortgage crisis at all. "Budgetary concerns" is almost a corporate way of saying "I could pay you, but I don't feel like it because profit margins" in fewer words and trying to dress it up like it can't be helped even if it can.

One thing their change in hiring philosophy will hopefully eliminate is their need to warehouse people and waste their time and careers just so someone else can't have them that they've been doing for about two decades or so now. Small solace, but still a minuscule plus.




Asking "who that perfect wrester" is basically just rode past the entire point of it being a hypothetical, can't-miss person that WWE would find a way to completely fuck up. It wasn't anyone in particular: they prob'ly don't exist. And if they did, I say again, WWE would likely fuck them up.

A thing I've said for years is that they are so intent on trying to find the next Hulk Hogan, that they'll overlook the next Rick Rudes, or Roddy Pipers, or a litany of other past top stars in their blind pursuit to not only find that cash cow figurehead, but somehow copy and paste them. That's not how any of that works, but it feels like nobody can tell Vince and company that.

I've also said that my decline in interest in WWE television started in the throes of the Smackdown Six era brand split. Smackdown had overtaken RAW in interest, ratings, match quality, and goddamn storytelling. It was done over time, and with talent that was supposedly for the most part subpar to who was on "the flagship". Heyman took that supposed chicken shit and made state fair quality chicken salad. And instead of having RAW do that same shit with the supposedly superior crop of talent, they instead just started poaching the people who were now over and have them appear on Monday nights and still put the same crummy effort into getting any of the stars they supposedly already had over. Nowadays, it's like they're mostly treating everyone like they're RAW talent from that era, and most of the NXT call-ups have been actively fucked with in one way or another at the transition if they even get called at all.

And being "the shits in the ring" is relative. Yes, I'm glad they got rid of the potentially lethal cancer that was Eva Marie again, but they still have Baron Corbin. Some of them were too new. Some of them never got an opportunity to be anything other than background bland. And the people who can and do stand out get meddled with. Again, something that happens most release cycles.

I'm actually not as excited about Steiner as I should be, because I'm just waiting for the punchline- that moment where they have someone that has future star written all over him, but somehow drop the boat and have him gone in the next eight months.

Overall, this isn't an indictment of the here and now. It's and ongoing gripe with WWE in general that has been happening for ages.

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I don’t think that making $200 million means you’re instantly justified in spending $50 million. I’m still at a loss as to how cutting people for budget concerns means you’re worried about your overall profits or how they’re even connected. I’m not trying to be difficult. The richest guy I know spends as little money as he can. His budget isn’t necessarily bigger just because he makes more than most other people.

[Mr. Nerfect]

With guys like Cesaro, it’s not only about attitude and talent, but it’s also about how you fit into things. I half-way expect a guy like Shelton Benjamin to be cut, but that he constantly escapes isn’t too surprising either. There are backstage factors, how you help younger guys, and just being the right guy in the right spot for the right reasons.

Some guys get cut because the only use for them would be, hypothetically, the main event. But when the company decides they don’t want to use you there, there’s nothing for you.

[XL]

I’m not entirely sure there’s more than maybe 5 acts on the roster that you’d miss if they were cut. Maybe that’s the benefit of “pushing the brand over the talent”?

You could go through the roster 3 times over and cut people that wouldn’t be missed; Jaxson Ryker, Elias, Corbin, Ziggler off the top of my head. Would you really miss Owens if he doesn’t re-up? Rollins? New Day? Crews? Cesaro? Nakamura? There’s are guys in there that I like but I’m not sure I’d miss them. I think that’s what sits awkwardly with a release like Keith Lee; they barely tried and there’s guys still there that they have tried everything with to little pay off. They seem like they wanted to make something of Ryker, it was never going to happen, it didn’t, and now he’s nowhere to be seen. The deal with B-Fab really sucks too. Imagine signing a new contract with more money - a number the company decided days before - then being told you’re being cut due to budget cuts. What happened in 3 days? If they don’t think they needed her with Hit Row why go through all that? Can you imagine the high of “I’m on the main roster” to “I don’t have a job”?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m not entirely sure there’s more than maybe 5 acts on the roster that you’d miss if they were cut. Maybe that’s the benefit of “pushing the brand over the talent”?

You could go through the roster 3 times over and cut people that wouldn’t be missed; Jaxson Ryker, Elias, Corbin, Ziggler off the top of my head. Would you really miss Owens if he doesn’t re-up? Rollins? New Day? Crews? Cesaro? Nakamura? There’s are guys in there that I like but I’m not sure I’d miss them. I think that’s what sits awkwardly with a release like Keith Lee; they barely tried and there’s guys still there that they have tried everything with to little pay off. They seem like they wanted to make something of Ryker, it was never going to happen, it didn’t, and now he’s nowhere to be seen. The deal with B-Fab really sucks too. Imagine signing a new contract with more money - a number the company decided days before - then being told you’re being cut due to budget cuts. What happened in 3 days? If they don’t think they needed her with Hit Row why go through all that? Can you imagine the high of “I’m on the main roster” to “I don’t have a job”?

Wrestling needs very few people. Honestly, the same can be said for almost any promotion in the world. But it is true in the WWE. But I’m not sure it’s entirely a new thing either. It’s been that way in wrestling forever. You do your thing, then you go away and you’re not doing it anymore. People will act like the show won’t go on without you, but it always does.

I don’t know what went on with B-Fab. She wasn’t a very good wrestler (she was really new). Did she have an attitude problem? Did she have some problematic stuff in her social media? Was she someone else that didn’t want to get vaccinated? There are plenty of factors that may or may not have contributed.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m agreeing with you, by the way. I wasn’t adding that to be argumentative. I often think about who isn’t expendable and the list is very, very small. But even if you got rid of a Roman Reigns, they’d just find someone else.

[Tom Guycott]

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I don’t think that making $200 million means you’re instantly justified in spending $50 million. I’m still at a loss as to how cutting people for budget concerns means you’re worried about your overall profits or how they’re even connected. I’m not trying to be difficult. The richest guy I know spends as little money as he can. His budget isn’t necessarily bigger just because he makes more than most other people.

I'm going to ask you then in the most simplistic way possible:

Say that you, personally, were the CEO of a business, and you hired exactly three employees (making the total folks working for the company four). Then, you fired two of those three employees... not for performance issues or discipinary actions or anything, but "budgetary concerns". Then, you proceeded to publicly post that your company increased its profits year on year.

You're telling me that you can't possibly see how that looks really, really bad, especially to the two people you've shown the door? You don't see how that could be interpreted as you being a greedy dickhead in any way? You can't fathom, at all, how saying "hey, we made multiple truckloads of money" right after literally telling half of your company that you don't have the money to spend to keep them, are exceptionally bad optics to pretty much everyone but you and/or any other CEO who thinks like you or any shareholders you may be trying to appease?

A profit margin and a budget is not as divorced as you seem to think it is. If you made more money, you could spend more money. Again, not saying you burn up every dime of profit you project, but you have in your power the ability to increase that budget at the expense of not making as much profit as you would have. If you made less money, or heaven forbid actually in the hole, you trim the fat. But if you could not stay profitable without letting those people go, you really aren't profitable to begin with. You're only buying time until that bubble bursts. This isn't limited to this hypothetical, or even to WWE. You'll eventually run out of folks to fire, assets to sell, and corners to cut just so that your financials look good in the end.


:sigh: Fine. We are going to have to disagree on this one by an exceptionally wide gulf.

[Tom Guycott]

No one should expect that anything that works at NXT and their small, niche crowd will translate to working on the bigger, mainstream audience. Things that worked in NXT: Adam Rose and Emma's bad dancer gimmick.

They dropped the 5 count gimmick because they didn't need an awkward guy ripping off King Kong Bundy at the time. They need a guy to be muscle for Dolph Ziggler. And he was a massive dude who could fill that role.



However, there's a difference between things not translating and not even fucking trying. If you recall, Adam Rose was a Vince call... he was over in NXT doing the Leo Kreuger shell-shocked crazy man shtick. He was another one of those "let's change fucking everything" guys. And apparently, Vince got bored with his own creation, much like he did back in the day with Drew McIntyre. Remember, Drew came in with PERSONAL promo hype from Vince himself and won the IC title in pretty short order, then that was done relatively quickly.

Meanwhile, while still in NXT, Baron Corbin got LESS OVER with time, because once they tried to move him beyond the timed squash matches, he got really exposed at being the shits. Even with the active disdain, they called him up as-is, and then the whole world got to see how shit he was.

Divorcing how anyone may feel about the guys, EVERYTHING about Enzo and Cass was hitting and they didn't need to change a goddamn thing from the "niche" NXT crowd. Roman Reigns' pre-Shield repackaging was essentially the prototype of what he is right now, but he was nowhere near ready for it. Bray Wyatt: cult leader extrordanare worked fine. Kevin Steen and Samoa Joe were basically the same things they've always been.

Imagine if they gave every call-up a fair shake like that instead of instantly trying to make random folks change shit immediately.

So back to Big E being Dolph's heater. They could have chose plenty of folks already on the main roster for that. They could have picked a call up from NXT who didn't have anything to them yet. Instead they took a guy who was at least over there, and didn't even try with him doing his own thing.

Its almost a coin flip if they're going to either leave someone alone, or try to fuck with them without even trying what was working for them. Using your Steve Austin comparison, it would be like he was full on beer drinking, middle finger, stunner, DTA "Rattlesnake" in NXT, and THEN for the main roster call up, they put The Ringmaster gimmick on him without even trying what was already working... and then when that went ass up, it's somehow because Steve wasn't trying.

[xrodmuc316]

No one should expect that anything that works at NXT and their small, niche crowd will translate to working on the bigger, mainstream audience. Things that worked in NXT: Adam Rose and Emma's bad dancer gimmick.

They dropped the 5 count gimmick because they didn't need an awkward guy ripping off King Kong Bundy at the time. They need a guy to be muscle for Dolph Ziggler. And he was a massive dude who could fill that role.

As for your last point, this sounds like bitching because they gave Steve Austin "The Ringmaster" gimmick off the bat and he suggested tweaks to make it work. This is the thing about attitude I'm talking about: They could have very easily just bitched about the shitty hand they were dealt and they'd have been released. Instead, they believed in themselves and what they were doing, saw what wasn't working, and suggested tweaks to make it work.

That's not a failure on Creative's end. That is what separates the folks who are forgotten about from the biggest stars in wrestling. These folks would rather piss and moan than fight and prove that they want this shit. Sometimes that means suggesting changes. Sometimes, that means learning how to fucking yodel.

Early era NXT, yes that stupid stuff didn't translate. But starting with when K.O. and Balor came in, which was when Takeovers started drawing big, there were countless guys who didn't have to change anything and were over on the main roster. Then after so many botches, it became much harder to be invested the same way.

I am not sure if the exact dates, but for me personally I feel like the confidence was gone after they botched Bobby Roode. There were a few more callups after him where it was less excitement for what could be and more curiosity of how much they would screw it up.

After Ricochet and Black, that was when it seemed like it shifted to where nobody wanted to get called up because even they knew it would turn out bad.

[Tom Guycott]

Early era NXT, yes that stupid stuff didn't translate. But starting with when K.O. and Balor came in, which was when Takeovers started drawing big, there were countless guys who didn't have to change anything and were over on the main roster. Then after so many botches, it became much harder to be invested the same way.

I am not sure if the exact dates, but for me personally I feel like the confidence was gone after they botched Bobby Roode. There were a few more callups after him where it was less excitement for what could be and more curiosity of how much they would screw it up.

After Ricochet and Black, that was when it seemed like it shifted to where nobody wanted to get called up because even they knew it would turn out bad.

Even though he fucked his own career up, I still think of the whole Velveteen Dream "Call Me Up, Vince" tights. I remember hoping that nobody took him up on that, because chances are they were going to do something to undo all the progress. Little did I know...

But yeah, Bobby Roode was a big one. So was EC3 (who never got called up). So was pretty much every tag team that came up from there, from The Ascension to War Machine.

[XL]

What do you mean EC3 never got called up? He had that 3 week feud with Ambrose where he was silent and got smashed.

[XL]

And Jesus, I’d forgotten how they botched that round of call ups with Ricochet, Black, Gargano and Ciampa.

[XL]

Though to be fair, it was totally the talents fault that they didn’t get over.

[XL]

I'm going to ask you then in the most simplistic way possible:

Say that you, personally, were the CEO of a business, and you hired exactly three employees (making the total folks working for the company four). Then, you fired two of those three employees... not for performance issues or discipinary actions or anything, but "budgetary concerns". Then, you proceeded to publicly post that your company increased its profits year on year.

You're telling me that you can't possibly see how that looks really, really bad, especially to the two people you've shown the door? You don't see how that could be interpreted as you being a greedy dickhead in any way? You can't fathom, at all, how saying "hey, we made multiple truckloads of money" right after literally telling half of your company that you don't have the money to spend to keep them, are exceptionally bad optics to pretty much everyone but you and/or any other CEO who thinks like you or any shareholders you may be trying to appease?

A profit margin and a budget is not as divorced as you seem to think it is. If you made more money, you could spend more money. Again, not saying you burn up every dime of profit you project, but you have in your power the ability to increase that budget at the expense of not making as much profit as you would have. If you made less money, or heaven forbid actually in the hole, you trim the fat. But if you could not stay profitable without letting those people go, you really aren't profitable to begin with. You're only buying time until that bubble bursts. This isn't limited to this hypothetical, or even to WWE. You'll eventually run out of folks to fire, assets to sell, and corners to cut just so that your financials look good in the end.


:sigh: Fine. We are going to have to disagree on this one by an exceptionally wide gulf.
None of this really affects WWE though. They’re a behemoth that does what it wants. People will still want to go there because it’s the top of the mountain. You might find that “indie standouts” make the jump less as they’ve seen their contemporaries get fucked around but WWE have all but said “we don’t want the indies anyway, we’ll just create from scratch”. They’ve got the industry locked up for now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm going to ask you then in the most simplistic way possible:

Say that you, personally, were the CEO of a business, and you hired exactly three employees (making the total folks working for the company four). Then, you fired two of those three employees... not for performance issues or discipinary actions or anything, but "budgetary concerns". Then, you proceeded to publicly post that your company increased its profits year on year.

You're telling me that you can't possibly see how that looks really, really bad, especially to the two people you've shown the door? You don't see how that could be interpreted as you being a greedy dickhead in any way? You can't fathom, at all, how saying "hey, we made multiple truckloads of money" right after literally telling half of your company that you don't have the money to spend to keep them, are exceptionally bad optics to pretty much everyone but you and/or any other CEO who thinks like you or any shareholders you may be trying to appease?

A profit margin and a budget is not as divorced as you seem to think it is. If you made more money, you could spend more money. Again, not saying you burn up every dime of profit you project, but you have in your power the ability to increase that budget at the expense of not making as much profit as you would have. If you made less money, or heaven forbid actually in the hole, you trim the fat. But if you could not stay profitable without letting those people go, you really aren't profitable to begin with. You're only buying time until that bubble bursts. This isn't limited to this hypothetical, or even to WWE. You'll eventually run out of folks to fire, assets to sell, and corners to cut just so that your financials look good in the end.


:sigh: Fine. We are going to have to disagree on this one by an exceptionally wide gulf.

I like you as a poster, Mr. Guycott, but your analogies make no sense to me. When did the WWE fire 2 of its 3 employees? That has to make sense as an apples to apples comparison. And, honestly, if you’ve only budgeted for 1 employee, it doesn’t make sense to have 3. I just don’t see how it is crying poor to minimize your costs. Businesses aren’t obligated to run up their expenses just because they have high revenue. And higher revenue doesn’t mean the expenses have to go up either.

[Tom Guycott]

What do you mean EC3 never got called up? He had that 3 week feud with Ambrose where he was silent and got smashed.

I don't remember this at all, which is a great example of how botched that was. I only remember him being back in NXT and being really shocked he was able to still call himself EC3 instead of going back to being Derek Bateman. He was jacked, had swag, and was already well trained in the "WWE way" since he was there before, so he seemed like yet another no-brainer roster addition.

[Tom Guycott]

I like you as a poster, Mr. Guycott, but your analogies make no sense to me. When did the WWE fire 2 of its 3 employees? That has to make sense as an apples to apples comparison. And, honestly, if you’ve only budgeted for 1 employee, it doesn’t make sense to have 3. I just don’t see how it is crying poor to minimize your costs. Businesses aren’t obligated to run up their expenses just because they have high revenue. And higher revenue doesn’t mean the expenses have to go up either.

Okay, so basically what you're telling me is that you're trolling. At this point you have to be, because not agreeing with me is not the same is not being able to grasp what I am getting at. So, I'll just add you to that list with Droford and keep it moving. Good morning.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Okay, so basically what you're telling me is that you're trolling. At this point you have to be, because not agreeing with me is not the same is not being able to grasp what I am getting at. So, I'll just add you to that list with Droford and keep it moving. Good morning.

No, I’m not trolling. I’m genuinely confused as to why you would use an analogy of a business releasing two-thirds of its workforce to be something analogous to the WWE releasing 18 wrestlers they thought were expendable for one reason or another. They’re nowhere near the same scenario. But even so, I don’t think it makes the point that anyone is crying poor by doing so.

[xrodmuc316]

The budget cut reason doesnt have to mean WWE is strapped for cash, it just means that they have more employees than they need. If they are making a billion dollars a year, saving 5 million on wrestlers isnt really much of a difference one way or the other.

That is the issue to me, the negative press and bad optics of saving half a percent of the yearly budget is not worth it. They would be better off keeping those guys on payroll than killing the morale of the locker room.

[Lock Jaw]

*profit-oriented business acts like profit-oriented business*

Public: HOW DARE THEY!

[Mr. Nerfect]

The budget cut reason doesnt have to mean WWE is strapped for cash, it just means that they have more employees than they need. If they are making a billion dollars a year, saving 5 million on wrestlers isnt really much of a difference one way or the other.

That is the issue to me, the negative press and bad optics of saving half a percent of the yearly budget is not worth it. They would be better off keeping those guys on payroll than killing the morale of the locker room.

This is a better argument, but I’d just disagree that they are truly better off. I think their stock price is what matters to them, and I think releases are not only necessary but healthy.

Keep in mind you might be cutting anti-vaxers, people with attitudes, people who want out, etc. In some cases, it opens up more spots for other talent.

[Sepholio]

Even with Toms example, if you have no work or plans for 2 of the 3 workers at your company then you should absolutely fire them. Why the hell would anyone pay for workers they aren't going to use? It's dumb and especially irresponsible when you are beholden to shareholders.

[XL]

I don't remember this at all, which is a great example of how botched that was. I only remember him being back in NXT and being really shocked he was able to still call himself EC3 instead of going back to being Derek Bateman. He was jacked, had swag, and was already well trained in the "WWE way" since he was there before, so he seemed like yet another no-brainer roster addition.
On December 17, 2018, it was announced EC3 would be debuting on the main roster. During the following weeks, he was seen during backstage segments of Raw and SmackDown Live, before making his official debut on the February 4, 2019 episode of Raw, appearing on Alexa Bliss' talk show A Moment Of Bliss. During the segment, EC3 was interrupted by Dean Ambrose, leading to a match that EC3 won. The following week on Raw, they competed in a rematch, which Ambrose won with a small package. After his short feud with Ambrose, EC3 would be off Raw for the following months, and was relegated to Main Event as a jobber. At the WrestleMania 35 pre-show on April 7, EC3 competed in the André the Giant Memorial Battle Royal, but was eliminated early in the match.

Or as Noid would put it; “they gave him a big opportunity in an angle with one of the top guys on the brand”.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You tweeted this from an iPhone...slow your oll on people not being valued there hot take machine</p>&mdash; Doc Bucknus (@jkranites) <a href="https://twitter.com/jkranites/status/1456665757899702276?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Nerfect]

On December 17, 2018, it was announced EC3 would be debuting on the main roster. During the following weeks, he was seen during backstage segments of Raw and SmackDown Live, before making his official debut on the February 4, 2019 episode of Raw, appearing on Alexa Bliss' talk show A Moment Of Bliss. During the segment, EC3 was interrupted by Dean Ambrose, leading to a match that EC3 won. The following week on Raw, they competed in a rematch, which Ambrose won with a small package. After his short feud with Ambrose, EC3 would be off Raw for the following months, and was relegated to Main Event as a jobber. At the WrestleMania 35 pre-show on April 7, EC3 competed in the André the Giant Memorial Battle Royal, but was eliminated early in the match.

Or as Noid would put it; “they gave him a big opportunity in an angle with one of the top guys on the brand”.

EC3 sucks. Did he really deserve more than he got? Come on now.

[drave]

Nope. His "gimmick" where he stopped giving a fuck at the end was better.

[Fignuts]

I was never an EC3 fan, but even I think he could have been utilized better. Or ya know ...utilized at all.

[Ruien]

Kind of off topic for Seth real quick. Why are you okay with WWE releasing people in the pandemic but not ROH?

[Sepholio]

Kind of off topic for Seth real quick. Why are you okay with WWE releasing people in the pandemic but not ROH?

This is stupid. Was explained in the other thread. Slik caught what I was doing immediately. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of all the people here who screech every single time WWE releases someone (especially making a point of it being during the pandemic) and then not having that same reaction when another company literally releases everyone. Was also a great example of pointing out how around here it is "damned if you do, damned if you don't" as far as Vince is concerned; if he releases people, he's a monster but if he holds on to them when he has nothing for them then he is also a monster for hoarding talent that could be better utilized elsewhere. It's the perfect encapsulation of what Noid complains about; people not being consistent and just falling into the HuR dUr WwE bAd mold. There is also a difference between releasing a few dozen out of hundreds of talents and releasing every single one, for what that's worth. Also worth pointing out we hear about WWE making so much money when they do this; Sinclair has more money yet crickets.

When I found out Sinclair actually owns ROH that kind of annoyed me. But that's because I already have a deep dislike of Sinclair in general for cancelling excellent television shows and leaving me stuck on a cliff hanger forever. Business is still business though so if it was better for their bottom line then I can't really blame them because they have shareholders to placate, especially since they were recently added to the fortune 500 and have been spending out the ass to expand their sporting empire.

[drave]

You should call your least favorite child "Sinclair" when they're in trouble. Just make it their unofficial middle name.

[slik]

Did Hit Row have more than 1 match on the main roster?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Fightful has learned that WWE have released John Morrison, Top Dolla, Ashante Adonis, Isaiah Swerve Scott, Tegan Nox, Drake Maverick, Shane Thorne, and Jaxson Ryker.</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1461520091934302209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My immediate thoughts...<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/wwe?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#wwe</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wwe</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/nxt?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#nxt</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/WWENXT?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wwenxt</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/thankyou?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#thankyou</a> <a href="https://t.co/jMtv5X50KQ">pic.twitter.com/jMtv5X50KQ</a></p>&mdash; Drake Maverick (@WWEMaverick) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWEMaverick/status/1461520342539816961?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GD]

Did Hit Row have more than 1 match on the main roster?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Fightful has learned that WWE have released John Morrison, Top Dolla, Ashante Adonis, Isaiah Swerve Scott, Tegan Nox, Drake Maverick, Shane Thorne, and Jaxson Ryker.</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1461520091934302209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Dude, what the fuck? Un-fucking-believable

[xrodmuc316]

Morrison had to have asked for his release after they let go of his wife. Miz is literally about to return, it makes no sense they would release him now, especially when they could have released him 2 weeks ago with her.

Also, damn I liked that WWE Treasure show, thanks for the memories Top Dolla!

[slik]

Taya Valkerie has CENA NUFF

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stop supporting a company that has ZERO respect for their talent. You love pro wrestling, spend your money on the hundreds of other alternatives. This is wrong. Ethically, as employers they don’t care about us. Talent or fans.</p>&mdash; TAYA VALKYRIE (@FrankyMonetWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/FrankyMonetWWE/status/1461522622546644992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yooooo FUCKKKKK them.</p>&mdash; TAYA VALKYRIE (@FrankyMonetWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/FrankyMonetWWE/status/1461519388830543879?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GD]

I hope this wasn't due to the Mahal diss track. Weaksauce.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My immediate thoughts...<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/wwe?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#wwe</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wwe</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/nxt?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#nxt</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/WWENXT?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wwenxt</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/thankyou?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#thankyou</a> <a href="https://t.co/jMtv5X50KQ">pic.twitter.com/jMtv5X50KQ</a></p>&mdash; Drake Maverick (@WWEMaverick) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWEMaverick/status/1461520342539816961?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hey this is PrettyGood

[Supreme Olajuwon]

People should watch this

[xrodmuc316]

Taya Valkerie has CENA NUFF

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stop supporting a company that has ZERO respect for their talent. You love pro wrestling, spend your money on the hundreds of other alternatives. This is wrong. Ethically, as employers they don’t care about us. Talent or fans.</p>&mdash; TAYA VALKYRIE (@FrankyMonetWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/FrankyMonetWWE/status/1461522622546644992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yooooo FUCKKKKK them.</p>&mdash; TAYA VALKYRIE (@FrankyMonetWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/FrankyMonetWWE/status/1461519388830543879?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Lol damn, maybe Morrison didnt ask for his release afterall. Good for her!

[Evil Vito]

Hit Row weren’t even given a chance. God damn.

[GD]

People should watch this

It was good.

[slik]

Evergreen 'Dana Brooke changing her phone number r/n' post

[GD]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">don't worry <a href="https://t.co/tHmncljN8a">pic.twitter.com/tHmncljN8a</a></p>&mdash; forever botchamania (@Maffewgregg) <a href="https://twitter.com/Maffewgregg/status/1459954785310937096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 14, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[xrodmuc316]

By my count:

Raw has 40 active wrestlers on the roster. 29 men, including Veer who technically hasnt redubeted yet, Miz who has not returned yet, and Edge who is part time. You could also take away MVP and Azeez as while they occasionally wrestler, they are mostly managers.
Raw has 10 active females. Who knows when Alexa Bliss may come back, and Nikki and Rhea are tag champs so they are technically both Raw and Smackdown.

Smackdown has 31 active wrestlers on the roster. 23 men, including occasional wrestlers but mostly managers Rick Boogs, Madcap Moss, and Shanky.
Smackdown has 8 active women. Xia Li has not debuted yet, and Aliyah has had I believe one match. Bayley is also on Smackdown but injured, even though she isnt even listed on their website.

I know WWE had a bloated roster, but man they are getting pretty thin now.

[Lock Jaw]

Wasn't Drake Maverick already released awhile ago?

[Bad News Gertner]

They released a bunch of junk. No loss.

[xrodmuc316]

Wasn't Drake Maverick already released awhile ago?

He was, but then was still in the cruiserweight tourney, then got rehired to NXT, was in a tag with Killian Dain for a while, then not much of anything after Dain was released.

[slik]

They should call up more men to SD...still baffled at callup of Von Wagner...like of all the people from NXT 2.0, how lol

[slik]

Von Wagner's gimmick is he is tall

Not memorable and not a promo guy...call up Odyssey Jones or Xyon Quinn...Odyssey good power moves wrestler and lots of personality...Xyon not a bad promo and innovative 'big man' rassler...

[Damian Rey 2.0]

They released a bunch of junk. No loss.

It sucks people lost their jobs. But, things are opened up, there’s plenty of work to be had and these people weren’t being used anyways.

[slik]

I wonder who else who was in big promoted matches from WM this last year will get the axe before next WM

JoMo (Bad Bunny match)
Braun (Shane match)
Bray (Orton match)

[slik]

Seems like dumb PR to release people right before the holidays

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">John Laurinaitis cited budget cuts as the reason within the e-mail</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1461520663882182656?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Prayers for WWE that they can overcome their financial problems.��</p>&mdash; Greg Morgan (@GoodMicWork) <a href="https://twitter.com/GoodMicWork/status/1461536846823899139?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GD]

Nikki Bella: What are you doing, step daddy?

[slik]

Cena putting over Drake

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is worth a watch. Very well done and very powerful message by a gifted performer. <a href="https://t.co/r1r26HtAfI">https://t.co/r1r26HtAfI</a></p>&mdash; John Cena (@JohnCena) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnCena/status/1461537781629526021?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Evil Vito]

Coming soon, the WWE version of A Christmas Carol, where Ebenezer McMahon gets visited by three ghosts in the night.

Except Ebenezer just laughs at how the ghosts look and doesn't change his ways at all. The next morning, he fires Bob Cratchit due to budget cuts and then pisses all over Tiny Tim.

[Mr. Nerfect]

None of those releases are surprising. JoMo is talented, but they don’t need him. Send him out there to add to the bloat and/or water down the alternate scene. They’re not doing anything with him.

Releasing his wife was probably a good indicator he was on the way out.

[DaveWadding]

Hope to see Johnny Mundo and Killshot on Azteca Underground in the near future.

And Taya reprising her role as a host for a demon spirit that was previously inside of a doll.

[erickman]

Hope to see Johnny Mundo and Killshot on Azteca Underground in the near future.

And Taya reprising her role as a host for a demon spirit that was previously inside of a doll.

taya is going back to impact in a orange jump suit that says stanford st on it. when she left impact over a year ago, she was headed off to jail so she escapes jail writes itself.

[ClockShot]

:lol:

Morrison is out again. Sheesh.

I know his contract was up the first time and he walked away.

Roll the tape.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sxtgSngr_WQ" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[slik]

When AEW does release people my guess is it will be at the end of their contract. I wonder if AEW has a no compete clause, if not, that could be interesting if it's someone WWE is interested in.

Then again, if you are an indy wrestler right now, seeing all the releases from people high up on the card, who had WM programs this year and even who've sold merch well, you might be a little hesitant to sign with WWE if another option or two presents itself.

[slik]

But also,

I don't think WWE is interested in indy wrestlers right now, more focused on post-college and olympic level athletes they can 'mold' at the PC

[Evil Vito]

AEW strike me as a company that will just let deals lapse rather than release people, unless of course there are extenuating circumstances like Jimmy Havok.

Although their roster is bloated too, I think a lot of guys on the indies find their contract structure to be desirable. They know they're mostly filling out Dark/Elevation tapings but otherwise they retain full control of their careers, being allowed to take bookings anywhere they want the rest of the week. Meanwhile if they "take off" and make a name for themselves on the indies, AEW could always give them Dynamite time and they also have the fringe benefits AEW offers like insurance, etc.

[erickman]

AEW strike me as a company that will just let deals lapse rather than release people, unless of course there are extenuating circumstances like Jimmy Havok.

Although their roster is bloated too, I think a lot of guys on the indies find their contract structure to be desirable. They know they're mostly filling out Dark/Elevation tapings but otherwise they retain full control of their careers, being allowed to take bookings anywhere they want the rest of the week. Meanwhile if they "take off" and make a name for themselves on the indies, AEW could always give them Dynamite time and they also have the fringe benefits AEW offers like insurance, etc.

i am thinking the 1st 3 year contracts are up in july next year so that will be when they get rid of the people who did not work out

[slik]

former tpww poster The Mercenary has chimed in

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ya all complain about Rasslers being cut, but fact is simple. If Biden don't wake up there will be a woman president</p>&mdash; chris greene (@chrisj_greene) <a href="https://twitter.com/chrisj_greene/status/1461738544540565512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Destor]

factual statement

[weather vane]

Wtf is that weirdo talking about?

[Destor]

i think he's memeing on the fox news coverage of bidens colonoscopy

[Bad News Gertner]

I've read a lot of "how can fans/kids get invested in wrestlers when they just disappear"

You mean like the territory days into the 90s

[M-A-G]

Yeah, but weren't some of those shows broadcast nationally? And wouldn't they do stuff like "Loser Leaves Town" and what not?

[Bad News Gertner]

Wrestlers would come and go, show up randomly in other promotions all the time with no explanation. Look at the WWF during their expansion.

Buzz Sawyer for example. He randomly showed up with Cap Lou as his manager in April 84 and left a month later. No explanation. He was just there and gone.

[Fignuts]

If you're invested in a wrestler you really like then go watch them wherever they turn up next. It's not hard.

[Maluco]

There is a massive difference between watching a new guy come into a territory and do an angle against an established team/personality that is both easy to follow and clear, than to watch “Top Dolla” have a few random matches on Smackdown and then disappear forever.

They have cleared out so much crap and, when you look at the list for their 25 man battle Royal, there is still so much more. They don’t establish ANYONE anymore. Guys aren’t coming in to do fresh angles with established stars. They are coming in to do no angles with guys who also aren’t over. Just random matches on TV, don’t get over, released.

It’s a result of 10+ years of terrível booking, and now, there are no Undertakers left to call for your big shows.

[drave]

Wrestlers would come and go, show up randomly in other promotions all the time with no explanation. Look at the WWF during their expansion.

Buzz Sawyer for example. He randomly showed up with Cap Lou as his manager in April 84 and left a month later. No explanation. He was just there and gone.




Man, when I was young one of my friends's dad wrestled in a local fed. They would regularly hold shows at "Tyndall Armory" downtown which was awesome. I had no clue his dad played "two wrestlers". He had a Justin "The Hawk" Bradshaw gimmick with the cowbell and western look..... but he also played a masked babyface called "The Creeper". He had a long feud with a young "Flash Flanagan" (caught one his shirts forever ago too).


That shit was so cool man. His dad would take us to//from and we always thought he was The Creeper, but we never were able to find his gear at home or anything, to confirm it. I wish like hayell I could remember the name of the promotion, and dig up some tapes.

[drave]

was just searching for shit and found out Tyler Reks is trans. so there's that.

[Bad News Gertner]

Man, when I was young one of my friends's dad wrestled in a local fed. They would regularly hold shows at "Tyndall Armory" downtown which was awesome. I had no clue his dad played "two wrestlers". He had a Justin "The Hawk" Bradshaw gimmick with the cowbell and western look..... but he also played a masked babyface called "The Creeper". He had a long feud with a young "Flash Flanagan" (caught one his shirts forever ago too).


That shit was so cool man. His dad would take us to//from and we always thought he was The Creeper, but we never were able to find his gear at home or anything, to confirm it. I wish like hayell I could remember the name of the promotion, and dig up some tapes.

What state. I could figure it out

[Bad News Gertner]

Was it Championship Wrestling from Indiana?

[drave]

I can't remember. Definitely Indiana. This would have been early/mid 90s

[Bad News Gertner]

That's what came to mind. Jeffrey Cohen was the promoter.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">William Regal has been let go from the company, WWE has confirmed to Fightful</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478842489570308096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WWE have confirmed producer Road Dogg, coach Ace Steel and writer Ryan Katz are all gone from NXT</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478841666626854917?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dave Kapoor, the former Ranjin Singh, has been let go from WWE. WWE has confirmed to Fightful</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478842639000772614?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sarah Cummins, Senior VP of Consumer Products at WWE has been let go today, per PWInsider</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478833611923202054?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ron the dial]

oh shit i had no idea ace steel was even working there to begin with

[slik]

One of the releases today was good friends with a person who fed me scoops, so looks like that well just dried up for 'ol slikster...wishing them well in whatever they do next.

[Lock Jaw]

I hope Road Dogg goes to AEW and reforms the New Age Outlaws with Billy Gunn and they take the tag team titles from the Lucha Bros

[Evil Vito]

Regal is one of the best minds in the business. Baffling.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Scott Armstrong is among the NXT personnel cuts, WWE has confirmed to Fightful</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478845445464113156?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

Pretty much RIP HHH's Performance Center/NXT staff for the most part, though HBK and Jeremy Borash both seem safe.

[Fignuts]

Can't imagine why they would get rid of Regal and Steel, especially with the direction they're headed with nxt. Incredible assets for developing talents.

[Evil Vito]

Casually waiting for Triple H to show up in GCW.

[erickman]

Casually waiting for Triple H to show up in GCW.

i see trips and steph cashing out of wwe and buying impact wrestling

[slik]

William Regal was probably 'too expensive' for Nick Khan.

He's one of the best minds in wrestling ever and a great promo/gimmick coach and Regal knows exactly the stuff Vince likes and wants on the main roster...but maybe they can hire Johnny The Bull at a fraction of the price or something instead.

[Jordan]

William Regal was probably 'too expensive' for Nick Khan.

He's one of the best minds in wrestling ever and a great promo/gimmick coach and Regal knows exactly the stuff Vince likes and wants on the main roster...but maybe they can hire Johnny The Bull at a fraction of the price or something instead.

Not too expensive for Tony Khan, Nick's brother.

[slik]

Wiliam Regal debuts in AEW as Eddie Kingston's new manager, whose constantly trying to teach 'Edward' about the classier things in life.

Make it happen TK.

[Lock Jaw]

Wiliam Regal debuts in AEW as Eddie Kingston's new manager, whose constantly trying to teach 'Edward' about the classier things in life.

Make it happen TK.

Like wearing capes.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Timothy Thatcher has been let go from WWE, Fightful has confirmed with the company. He'd been helping coach of late since being off TV</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478856023708418049?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hideki Suzuki of Diamond Mine has been let go from WWE, Fightful has confirmed with the company.</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478855946403295236?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Jordan]

Gah....

Hate to say it, every damn time one of these happens, but...


Thatcher is a must sign for AEW. One of those along with Keith Lee that should have been and AEW Original but swiped right on NXT when it was still good.

[ron the dial]

nah

[ron the dial]

i mean thatcher is fine and i even grew to enjoy him when he was feuding/teaming with ciampa, but he is definitely not a must sign in my eyes.

[xrodmuc316]

They should release Roderick Strong, finish off Undisputed Era completely, especially if they are already releasing Diamond Mine guys.

Also, was Regal still considered NXT's GM? I cant recall him doing anything GM related since 2.0. Still a baffling move though, dude did a lot for NXT.

[Jordan]

I never saw Thatcher much in NXT but I saw him live a few times at indies I always thought he was a stand out, plus he has a size a legitimacy about his style that I really like.

[Sepholio]

damn I love Regal. This sucks.

[slik]

These two names sound familiar but I am not familiar with them, but more releases at NXT/PC

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cathy Corino, also known as Allison Danger, has been let go from WWE, the company has confirmed to Fightful</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478856620578910218?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Danny Burch has been let go from WWE, Fightful has confirmed with the company. He'd been helping coach since being off TV</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1478856148279255042?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ron the dial]

loved oney and burch together but they'd definitely hit their ceiling in WWE. allison danger another one i had no idea even worked for the company.

[Evil Vito]

William Regal was probably 'too expensive' for Nick Khan.

I dunno, if there's anyone in the wrestling industry who doesn't know their own worth, it's Regal.

[ron the dial]

does sara del rey still work for them?

[Evil Vito]

does sara del rey still work for them?

Yeah she’s still a head coach (for now)

[Evil Vito]

Danielson doesn't need a mouthpiece, but Regal managing his star student would make me extremely happy

[Triple A]

Love Thatcher...

[GD]

I eagerly await a post from Noid justifying the cuts.

[Lock Jaw]

What justification is needed? Not like these were heavily featured people like Wyatt and Strowman were when released. Biggest name is Regal and maybe he wanted to get cut.

[RP]

DID THEY FIRE ROMAN REIGNS FOR DOING PORNO AS A SIDE GIG???? FUCK YOU VINCE!

[GD]

What justification is needed? Not like these were heavily featured people like Wyatt and Strowman were when released. Biggest name is Regal and maybe he wanted to get cut.

Yes. Backstage personnel weren’t heavily featured. Drain the swamp.

[Lock Jaw]

I didn't think you meant them because they need even less justification....

[GD]

I didn't think you meant them because they need even less justification....

Yes. There’s no justification required since they’re low on the totem pole.

[ron the dial]

what kind of justification are you looking for at this point? sincerely.

[GD]

what kind of justification are you looking for at this point? sincerely.

I mentioned that earlier. I’m looking forward to Noid’s justification.

[Bad News Gertner]

If they wouldn't have reported it nobody would have ever noticed.

[GD]

If they wouldn't have reported it nobody would have ever noticed.

Damb. Excellent justification. I’m satisfied. Take a green dot.

[ron the dial]

oh i see you're just in a mood tonight

[GD]

At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if they let Shawn Michaels go.

[Evil Vito]

Regal had to go because they needed to make room for a GM that’s as hip and cool as NXT 2.0 is

https://i.gifer.com/origin/59/598e7de57444181f5be69a6f087c2559_w200.gif

[GD]

Brother Love is hip.

[GD]

oh i see you're just in a mood tonight

Which needs no justification :o

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYQvRG6VoVGikFWWy8SKO3hslHZYGHazSYvQ&usqp=CAU

[Bad News Gertner]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One of the best of all-time. Godspeed to you on your next move, Mr. Regal. <a href="https://t.co/04nQZQvm3Z">pic.twitter.com/04nQZQvm3Z</a></p>&mdash; WCW Deep Cuts (@DeepCutsWCW) <a href="https://twitter.com/DeepCutsWCW/status/1478852937644453889?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Eternally grateful that Regal gave me a chance when I was nothing. I owe so much to him. <a href="https://t.co/ML4c4KgICa">pic.twitter.com/ML4c4KgICa</a></p>&mdash; The Man (@BeckyLynchWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/BeckyLynchWWE/status/1478932764535803905?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There would be no Sasha Banks if it wasn’t for <a href="https://twitter.com/RealKingRegal?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RealKingRegal</a> thank you for giving me a chance and believing in me. �� Forever grateful</p>&mdash; Mercedes Varnado (@SashaBanksWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/SashaBanksWWE/status/1478910154577952771?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Nerfect]

Regal is one of my favorites in wrestling. It sucks if he was let go against his will, but there’s the chance that this was somewhat voluntary. Sometimes people want to move on and do other things.

He’s a no-brainer signee for anyone if he wants to stay in wrestling.

Timothy Thatcher should have been called up to work in a technical wrestling division with Cesaro, WALTER, Drew Gulak and Oney Lorcan. Missed opportunity there.

[XL]

Yeah there’s definitely a place for a Thatcher, even if it’s as part of a faction like Imperium. I’m fact if you can’t get Walter to make the move across the pond, you could have just had Thatcher steal Imperium away from him and moved them to the main roster as a midcard heel stable for a few months.

[Bad News Gertner]

Gabe Saplosky has been let go

[slik]

I wonder if NXTUK is lucky during cuts that the company forgets they exist

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Can’t wait to see what WWE does with that EVOLVE IP they purchased now that Gabe is gone and they released everyone that worked there.</p>&mdash; words (@wordsbig80s) <a href="https://twitter.com/wordsbig80s/status/1479144838541066244?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[xrodmuc316]

I wonder if NXTUK is lucky during cuts that the company forgets they exist

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Can’t wait to see what WWE does with that EVOLVE IP they purchased now that Gabe is gone and they released everyone that worked there.</p>&mdash; words (@wordsbig80s) <a href="https://twitter.com/wordsbig80s/status/1479144838541066244?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I dont think Vince understands that NXTUK is a standalone brand. I believe he thinks that is what the faction is called for the people that came from the U.K.

[Evil Vito]

I think the NXTUK talent are harder to get rid of due to UK employment laws. They can fire guys like Ligero and Travis Banks who had sexual assault allegations, but the rest of the talent are treated like closer to employees than they would in the US. In all likelihood that brand will just kick around until their deals expire, at which point

A) they'll re-sign the people they want to keep on the condition they move to the US
or
B) the deal will quietly expire

Joe Conners was in the latter group, signed in December 2016 ahead of the original UK tourney and his deal just ran out

[slik]

I dont think Vince understands that NXTUK is a standalone brand. I believe he thinks that is what the faction is called for the people that came from the U.K.

:lol:

You're probably right

I read once the NXTUK contracts are peanuts compared to NXT 2.0 and the Performance Center

[slik]

Very interesting @ Vito

That would explain a lot

[Mr. Nerfect]

There is enough talent out there to start a completely legitimate company. With a head of creative, agents, referees, commentators, etc. Jeff Jarrett must be licking his lips.

[Jordan]

There is enough talent out there to start a completely legitimate company. With a head of creative, agents, referees, commentators, etc. Jeff Jarrett must be licking his lips.

Oh yeah baby we need some NJ(ARRETT)PW slappy!

[slik]

Future 'Future Endeavor' signs with WWE

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WWE hires Petey Williams full-time as a producer <a href="https://t.co/LuiZrNB0k5">https://t.co/LuiZrNB0k5</a> <a href="https://t.co/Hy1L3fPFM0">pic.twitter.com/Hy1L3fPFM0</a></p>&mdash; Wrestling Observer (@WONF4W) <a href="https://twitter.com/WONF4W/status/1479217277870522368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Bad News Gertner]

Joe the Samoan has been released.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">June 15th 2021 <a href="https://t.co/UnWa3cMIaT">pic.twitter.com/UnWa3cMIaT</a></p>&mdash; Fightful Wrestling (@Fightful) <a href="https://twitter.com/Fightful/status/1479238092364075008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

I think the next quarterly conference call is in February so there is a good chance there will be people in the Rumble matches who are gone from the company a month later.

[RP]

Vince is fucking ruthless.

[slik]

Next earnings report is February 3rd, Rumble is January 29th

[GD]

It’s disheartening to see them let go of so many people. It doesn’t get easy. Can’t fathom how stressful it must be to work for the company.

[Evil Vito]

Your contract isn’t worth the piece of paper it’s printed on.

[xrodmuc316]

Your contract isn’t worth the piece of paper it’s printed on.

The latest thing seems to be a signing bonus instead of a no cut clause. At least the wrestlers can get a good payday before they have to worry about job security. Aside from Roman and Brock, is anybody else safe? Rollins and Becky because they are married and top stars together are probably safe as a package deal, but literally anybody else on the active roster could be next.

Behind the scenes I would say Bruce and Johnny for now, Stephanie, and Shawn Michaels because Vince has always backed Shawn. HHH is less safe than Shawn, I could honesty see them telling Hunter they don't need him back. Maybe Vince woukd be nice enough to let Hunter keep some token office job.

[slik]

The following people wouldn't shock me if they were released in the next round of cuts:

Shotzi (called up to SD and then disappeared, ala Toni Storm)
Elias (disappeared from tv a while ago)
OMOS (tall, but he's really not athletic and he's not good in the ring either)
Robert Roode
Veer (I doubt he's ever going to actually appear on RAW if he hasn't by now)

[ron the dial]

shotzi in aew please. love her so much.

[slik]

There's a lot of Vincels on the loose now discussing how William Regal was a bad wrestler on Twitter, one example:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Okay cool.<br><br>Name me his classics. <br><br>Give me his all time best and how they compare to every other wrestler alive we already know are great.<br><br>Your name is tape machines. Where's his comp tape of bangers? <a href="https://t.co/5RkLXTSG7C">https://t.co/5RkLXTSG7C</a></p>&mdash; Aaron Wrotkowski (@AaronWrotkowski) <a href="https://twitter.com/AaronWrotkowski/status/1479224719928963078?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Even in the chance Regal was a bad wrestler (he wasn't obviously), the sheer amount of talent who have said they wouldn't be where they are without Regal should help the light-bulb go off.

[Bad News Gertner]

He wasn't bad but he's not nearly the wrestler people make him out to be

[Vastardikai]

There's a lot of Vincels on the loose now discussing how William Regal was a bad wrestler on Twitter, one example:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Okay cool.<br><br>Name me his classics. <br><br>Give me his all time best and how they compare to every other wrestler alive we already know are great.<br><br>Your name is tape machines. Where's his comp tape of bangers? <a href="https://t.co/5RkLXTSG7C">https://t.co/5RkLXTSG7C</a></p>&mdash; Aaron Wrotkowski (@AaronWrotkowski) <a href="https://twitter.com/AaronWrotkowski/status/1479224719928963078?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Even in the chance Regal was a bad wrestler (he wasn't obviously), the sheer amount of talent who have said they wouldn't be where they are without Regal should help the light-bulb go off.

Most of the bitching I've heard of Regal is him being blamed for killing ROH, rather than, I dunno, the top of the card fucking off with a Billionaire after using their assets to promote a mega show. Or, COVID. Or, putting all their eggs in the basket of a guy who turned out to be a sex pest.

[xrodmuc316]

There's a lot of Vincels on the loose now discussing how William Regal was a bad wrestler on Twitter, one example:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Okay cool.<br><br>Name me his classics. <br><br>Give me his all time best and how they compare to every other wrestler alive we already know are great.<br><br>Your name is tape machines. Where's his comp tape of bangers? <a href="https://t.co/5RkLXTSG7C">https://t.co/5RkLXTSG7C</a></p>&mdash; Aaron Wrotkowski (@AaronWrotkowski) <a href="https://twitter.com/AaronWrotkowski/status/1479224719928963078?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Even in the chance Regal was a bad wrestler (he wasn't obviously), the sheer amount of talent who have said they wouldn't be where they are without Regal should help the light-bulb go off.

What is a Vincel? It that the opposite of a Cultist? :lol: :rofl:

Also, it's not like WWE said they released Regal because he is a bad wrestler. I mean maybe Vince will tweet that in the near future while also bragging about how many European friends he has, but until then...

[Vastardikai]

What is a Vincel? It that the opposite of a Cultist? :lol: :rofl:

Also, it's not like WWE said they released Regal because he is a bad wrestler. I mean maybe Vince will tweet that in the near future while also bragging about how many European friends he has, but until then...

Back in the Monday Night Wars days, RSPW would call WWF fans Sheep, and WCW fans Lemmings.

I'm guessing "Vincel" is the new "Sheep." It's kind of ironic, considering the relationship many AEW fans have with women...

[Jordan]

AEW fans respect women and also people who identify as women even though we may not identify them as women, we do it anyway to fit in and be one with the voice.

[Bad News Gertner]

Aaron Wrotkowski is definitely not a "Vincel" lol.

[Sting Fan]

Joe the Samoan has been released.

I feel like I watched this episode recently...

[Damian Rey 2.0]

My guess is a vincel is a wwe apologist who like everything they do. The dumb “let the story play out” crowd who defend blatantly awful booking decisions, like turning red hot Becky heel (twice!!!), giving out the undefeated nxt champ in minutes on his main roster debut, big e and Bianca’s title losses, etc etc

[drave]

The latest thing seems to be a signing bonus instead of a no cut clause. At least the wrestlers can get a good payday before they have to worry about job security. Aside from Roman and Brock, is anybody else safe? Rollins and Becky because they are married and top stars together are probably safe as a package deal, but literally anybody else on the active roster could be next.

Behind the scenes I would say Bruce and Johnny for now, Stephanie, and Shawn Michaels because Vince has always backed Shawn. HHH is less safe than Shawn, I could honesty see them telling Hunter they don't need him back. Maybe Vince woukd be nice enough to let Hunter keep some token office job.




Wonder though, if that signing bonus is X amount at the time of signing, X amount after X days (or whatever metric), and then a performance-initiative type bonus. That's been the "new thing" with sign on bonuses for a while to try to keep talent from getting $$$$ and shitting the bed.


Also wouldn't count couples as "safe" give the E's track record with "splitting up" real life couples, be it kayfabe or otherwise. Can definitely seeing HHH not coming back to the same role, and then slowly being pushed out. Seen a eerily similar "political play" happen like this at my current employer a couple months ago :(

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think talent should be able to walk out on their WWE deals too, but when has it ever been the case that your spot in the WWF/E was bulletproof just because you had a contract? Releases used to happen all the time.

You get well paid while you are there too. To say the contracts aren’t worth shit is just weird.

[Bad News Gertner]

Shane O Mac has been let go

[Jordan]

Wow.... Don't even know what to say.

[Danny Electric]

Gives he more time to hang out with his boys The Mean Street Posse.

[xrodmuc316]

Shane O Mac has been let go

LOL, damn

https://c.tenor.com/1gvIyBsrssMAAAAC/rick-james-dave-chappelle.gif

[Bad News Gertner]

As we reported yesterday, Shane McMahon is believed to have booked the men’s Royal Rumble match last Saturday, which got him heat backstage. The match was poorly received, particularly among talent due to constant changes. But McMahon reportedly ‘rubbed people the wrong way’ when he took charge of the booking for this Rumble. He was described as a “nightmare” by some, allegedly buried Jamie Noble and there were claims he wanted to book the match around himself. McMahon entered at #28 and got one elimination before being thrown out by eventual winner, Brock Lesnar.

Now, a new report from Ringside News suggests that McMahon has been quietly let go by the company due to the heat. The writers were told in a “semi-quiet way” that “there will be no more creative discussions about Shane McMahon.” The creative team then “moved on to other creative discussions.” McMahon was previously rumored to be a regular on the RAW brand going forward, leading to a match at Wrestlemania.

It should be noted that Shane was not actually employed by WWE and wasn’t actually signed when he was brought back. He was “supposed to be involved in the XFL but then COVID hit and XFL went into bankruptcy.” Vince McMahon is using the term ‘let go’ backstage when referring to the situation. It was noted the word “blackballed” was not used.

A source added: “Vince had no choice. Shane created chaos, had everyone in an uproar, pissed off everyone in the Rumble, openly buried other producers, and was changing things that Vince wanted. Vince had no other choice but to send him home.“

[Bad News Gertner]

It's sad watching Shane over the years trying to find his "thing" only to be met with failure every single time.

[erickman]

roh is there for shane to buy if he can work with sinclare

[screech]

Well damn that kinda sucks.

[drave]

In other news


World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) has removed all footage of Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Triple H) from its streaming network.


“It’s what’s best for business, quite frankly,” said the anonymous source.


Helmsley is best known as a Connecticut blueblood born with a silver spoon in his mouth who, in a career highlight, lost to The Ultimate Warrior.

[drave]

As we reported yesterday, Shane McMahon is believed to have booked the men’s Royal Rumble match last Saturday, which got him heat backstage. The match was poorly received, particularly among talent due to constant changes. But McMahon reportedly ‘rubbed people the wrong way’ when he took charge of the booking for this Rumble. He was described as a “nightmare” by some, allegedly buried Jamie Noble and there were claims he wanted to book the match around himself. McMahon entered at #28 and got one elimination before being thrown out by eventual winner, Brock Lesnar.

Now, a new report from Ringside News suggests that McMahon has been quietly let go by the company due to the heat. The writers were told in a “semi-quiet way” that “there will be no more creative discussions about Shane McMahon.” The creative team then “moved on to other creative discussions.” McMahon was previously rumored to be a regular on the RAW brand going forward, leading to a match at Wrestlemania.

It should be noted that Shane was not actually employed by WWE and wasn’t actually signed when he was brought back. He was “supposed to be involved in the XFL but then COVID hit and XFL went into bankruptcy.” Vince McMahon is using the term ‘let go’ backstage when referring to the situation. It was noted the word “blackballed” was not used.

A source added: “Vince had no choice. Shane created chaos, had everyone in an uproar, pissed off everyone in the Rumble, openly buried other producers, and was changing things that Vince wanted. Vince had no other choice but to send him home.“






1000000% thought this was coming from kayfabe news or some shit. EARLY WORD says this is actually legit?!


Good.

[screech]

He 100p got cut because he didn't do the shuffle on the stage when he entered the Rumble.

[GD]

I was really looking forward to Shane McMahon versus Seth Rollins at the most Stupendous two-night WrestleMania in history.

[Evil Vito]

Shane O Mac has been let go

:lol::lol::lol:

[ron the dial]

good thing he got all those casuals pumped up at the rumble before they shitcanned him!

[Jordan]

Shane McMahon please do podcast with Conrad if you are reading.

[Sepholio]

Wait....this is real? What in the actual fuck lmao

[ron the dial]

or are we getting worked in service of a WM storyline??????????

[drave]

He worked himself into a shoot, brother.




-HausenHausen

[GD]

Can't wait to see Shane McMahon appear on AEW television.

[Sepholio]

or are we getting worked in service of a WM storyline??????????

WWE bought Impact and Shane is going to be running another invasion angle, isn't he?

[Sepholio]

https://i.imgur.com/9qAyX2z.jpg

[Bad News Gertner]

He's just not good at creative. At all. He's always been that way. You can tell he wants to make his dad proud and is jealous of Steph.

[erickman]

He's just not good at creative. At all. He's always been that way. You can tell he wants to make his dad proud and is jealous of Steph.

he will be a money mark somewhere ether impact or roh will flease him.

[Bad News Gertner]

I'm pretty sure his business dealings in China were a disaster.

[erickman]

I'm pretty sure his business dealings in China were a disaster.

like i said good money mark, now we can see the jeff hardy shane death match we always wanted to see.

[Jordan]

Shane McMahon vs Nick Gage deathmatch

[Jordan]

Shane McMahon & PCO indy tag team darlings for 2022. New England Championship Wrestling will never be the same!

[screech]

I really want them to run a "Shane got let go" angle but he bursts through security and keeps interrupting shit. Can imagine Byron Saxton saying "how can Vince keep his own son out of the building????" or some shit.

[screech]

That would work better if it was Cole, but Shane's a RAW guy so I gotta work with what's there, brother brother

[Mr. Nerfect]

Weird shit. I don’t believe the heat at the Rumble stuff at all. Also, the dude’s grandmother just died. Like this week. Pretty sure the McMahons all have a funeral coming up.

Plans being scrapped? Sure, I buy that. Shane doesn’t want anything to do with the product right now? Also believable. But there’s something else going on. Not saying it’s a work or anything like that, but the story just doesn’t fit. Shane getting “heat” for the Rumble is not why you would cut ties with someone.

[XL]

That would work better if it was Cole, but Shane's a RAW guy so I gotta work with what's there, brother brother

It’s Mania season, screw the Brand Split, brother. Besides, all the top draws appear on both brands; Lesnar, Ronda, Shane.

[Triple A]

PWInsider update: https://www.pwinsider.com/article/155459/shane-mcmahonwwe-updates.html?p=1

*Yesterday, there were creative plans for McMahon to be a regular on Raw as a heel leading into Wrestlemania. This afternoon, Shane McMahon was internally pulled from the Raw roster and the word making the rounds was that "the direction has changed."

*The feeling among some is that Shane is taking the brunt of the heat for the poor reception to the Men's Rumble match and that when the heat for that blows over, he'll eventually return in some form down the line.

So sounds like he was "sent home" and his plans were scrapped and could probably still come back at some point later. Maybe not a straight up "firing" since he doesn't work there full time anyway

[slik]

Meltzer has kanefirmed the news as well

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just a confirmation that Shane McMahon is out of WWE. More to come.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1488930777303699456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 2, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I think it's wonderful news. Shane won't get to hog a spot on the Mania card. All the talk of him arguing he and Brock should be the final two in the Rumble is hilarious. Then again, Shane tried to propose a Shane vs Brock match at WM a few years ago too.

I for one will not miss his goofy looking punches.

[Triple A]

Shane vs. Austin Theory WrestleMania angle with Vince being involved could have maybe been interesting

McMahon had been pushing to work Austin Theory at Wrestlemania with the idea playing out of Theory's involvement with Vince McMahon but that wasn't locked 100% in place. There were other forces pushing for Shane McMahon vs. Seth Rollins at Wrestlemania 38. There had been a planned sequence at one point to set up Rollins vs. Shane as a feud in the Men's Rumble match but as part of all the changes leading into the show, Rollins was pulled from the Rumble match.

https://www.pwinsider.com/article/155459/shane-mcmahonwwe-updates.html?p=1

[Mr. Nerfect]

Had no clue Shane is Executive Chairman of an electric car company. The guy is probably fucking busy.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wasn’t the guy there with Vince and co. checking out the new Titan Towers after Triple H recovered from his heart attack? This is despite not working there.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WrestleVotes is reporting this could have a ripple effect that is felt forever, lol.