WWE Summer Cleaning 2021

[#1-norm-fan]

Jericho seems to have a chapped ass about putting him over at Mania. Arturo Ruas will probably disappear from wrestling, unless he really wants to keep going. I see Marina Shafir stepping aside too. But I think everyone else at least has a cup of coffee in AEW, regardless of value to the product.

It’ll just be Fandango in TNA.

I remember Jericho’s gripe being more about the build, which was fair. Fandango going over came out of nowhere and went nowhere.

Honestly though, I’d kinda rather see him in NWA. For whatever reason, Billy Corgan seems like the only hope for someone recognizing and properly growing a true “star”. Even if his resources are limited and the star will just have to be a big fish in a small pond. I just wanna see one more charismatic, likeable star in wrestling pushed properly before it completely becomes an obsolete form of entertainment.

[xrodmuc316]

Jericho's ego is so fragile nowadays I could see him getting TK to hire Dango just so Jericho can get that Mania win back, like Warrior in WCW for a bit just to job to Hogan.

[Evil Vito]

Apparently Breezango, Killian Dain, Arturo Ruas, Tony Nese, Ariya Daivari, and the Bollywood Boyz all had main roster contracts with the standard 90 day non-competes. Breezango and Dain are obvious. Ruas was technically "called up" as part of Raw Underground and he got drafted to Raw but then sent him right back down.

205 Live was considered main roster from 2016-19 when it got rolled into NXT so all those early 205 signings were main roster whereas people like August Grey and Curt Stallion were still considered NXT so they have a shorter non-compete window.

That said some guys are probably gonna negotiate their way out of the non-compete deals. WWE won't be losing sleep if the 205 guys wind up at Slammiversary or whatever.

[erickman]

Apparently Breezango, Killian Dain, Arturo Ruas, Tony Nese, Ariya Daivari, and the Bollywood Boyz all had main roster contracts with the standard 90 day non-competes. Breezango and Dain are obvious. Ruas was technically "called up" as part of Raw Underground and he got drafted to Raw but then sent him right back down.

205 Live was considered main roster from 2016-19 when it got rolled into NXT so all those early 205 signings were main roster whereas people like August Grey and Curt Stallion were still considered NXT so they have a shorter non-compete window.

That said some guys are probably gonna negotiate their way out of the non-compete deals. WWE won't be losing sleep if the 205 guys wind up at Slammiversary or whatever.

yeah alot of the 205 guys would be great in the x div, an davaris bro appeared the same week on raw brakeing up a fight the same week he wrestled on impact. thate was another rick rude moment.

[Savio]

Fandango and Tony Nese just posted their goodbyes
Dango never held a title right? not even the 24/7 one?

[Lock Jaw]

Did Breezango ever win the tag titles? Can't remember....

[Lock Jaw]

Wiki tells me they won the NXT Tag Titles once, but never on the main roster....

[Mr. Nerfect]

I remember Jericho’s gripe being more about the build, which was fair. Fandango going over came out of nowhere and went nowhere.

Honestly though, I’d kinda rather see him in NWA. For whatever reason, Billy Corgan seems like the only hope for someone recognizing and properly growing a true “star”. Even if his resources are limited and the star will just have to be a big fish in a small pond. I just wanna see one more charismatic, likeable star in wrestling pushed properly before it completely becomes an obsolete form of entertainment.

Yeah, I’ll agree with that assessment.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">New day, new WWE departures. <br><br>Looks like producer Sonjay Dutt is out and the big one: Canyon Cemen WWE's Senior Director of Talent Development is also gone.</p>&mdash; Voices of Wrestling (@voiceswrestling) <a href="https://twitter.com/voiceswrestling/status/1409906102330855429?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

Vince is scheduled to visit the Performance Center on Thursday. Supposedly he is finally in big-time "let us find and make new stars mode". Releases possibly going to be continue throughout summer and fall as well.

New sets for Raw/SD also are said to have the biggest/most insane pyro WWE has ever used.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Seeing conflicting stuff that Canyon has not been released

[Lock Jaw]

Cemen, Canyon

[Bad News Gertner]

So the Cemen release was premature

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Quite a sticky situation

[Evil Vito]

Yeah they've got a bit of a mess on their hands.

[Fignuts]

I didn't even know Sonjay Dutt was in wwe.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Weird to me that Sonjay Dutt and Abyss got agent jobs with the WWE even though they never worked there. I guess it’s always been that way. It’s just one of Vince’s idiosyncrasies. Everything has to be done this “WWE way” with its self-fulfilling prophecies and shit, but then a lot of the agents are guys that either didn’t have outstanding runs there, or never even worked in one of their rings.

[erickman]

abyss has a sports med degree from u of ohio, i knew he would get some job from wwe.

[XL]

Vince is scheduled to visit the Performance Center on Thursday. Supposedly he is finally in big-time "let us find and make new stars mode". Releases possibly going to be continue throughout summer and fall as well.

New sets for Raw/SD also are said to have the biggest/most insane pyro WWE has ever used.

Imagine the pressure. You could be hand-picked to get a push, or get a shove out the door.

[Evil Vito]

The difference is loads of people have been called up from NXT and largely nothing has been done with them, or any immediate push they were given instantly flamed out.

Vince going there himself would suggest he's gonna pick someone to genuinely rocket strap.

[Lock Jaw]

Vince going there himself would suggest he's gonna pick someone to genuinely rocket strap.

.... for a month before forgetting they exist

[RP]

WHO BETTER THAN CANYON!

[xrodmuc316]

HA Breeze and Fandango hosting the Networks top 50 tag teams and didnt even stay employed for the last episode!

[GD]

HA Breeze and Fandango hosting the Networks top 50 tag teams and didnt even stay employed for the last episode!

What's funny about people losing their livelihood?

[Bad News Gertner]

HA Breeze and Fandango hosting the Networks top 50 tag teams and didnt even stay employed for the last episode!

Lol too funny

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’d be funny if they ranked and they had another team slotting them in. RIP.

[DAMN iNATOR]

HA Breeze and Fandango hosting the Networks top 50 tag teams and didnt even stay employed for the last episode!

They got their old Summer cards back in WWE SuperCard in time for the S7 ones they just added for RR21/WM37/Forged. I like the Gothic through Shattered best, Primal-Elemental just seem uninspired, like post cards or something, with Elemental adding a splash of color to the background.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

According to Sean Ross Sapp, it’s a Smackdown bloodbath tonight

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Bobby Fish, Bronson Reed, and Mercedes Martinez gone

[Evil Vito]

Tyler Rust who just debuted in a stable gone too. Jesus.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In all, WWE released<br><br>-Bobby Fish<br>-Bronson Reed<br>-Jake Atlas<br>-Ari Sterling<br>-Kona Reeves <br>-Leon Ruff<br>-Stephon Smith<br>-Tyler Rust<br>-Zechariah Smith<br>-Asher Hale<br>-Giant Zanjeer<br>-Mercedes Martinez.</p>&mdash; Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful.com (@SeanRossSapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1423816333649715204?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Mostly NXT also rans but a few stick out

[Emperor Smeat]

Nick Khan and Vince giving no shits about NXT anymore ever since Triple H failed big time on his mission to take out AEW from ever being a potential threat to WWE.

All its going to do is add a lot more fuel to the fire of the rumors of Vince selling WWE in a few years or once the next tv contracts are signed.

[Evil Vito]

And supposedly while all this was going on, Adam Cole was invited to go backstage to Smackdown

Wonder if they’re offering him another contract while cutting a bunch of his colleagues

[Supreme Olajuwon]

SRS has been crushing this intel for a while

Pretty much seems like the go to for wrestling news rite meow

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nick Khan and Vince giving no shits about NXT anymore ever since Triple H failed big time on his mission to take out AEW from ever being a potential threat to WWE.

All its going to do is add a lot more fuel to the fire of the rumors of Vince selling WWE in a few years or once the next tv contracts are signed.

How is AEW a threat to WWE? Yep, AEW such a big threat that they’re just sending them all this super-amazing talent on a platter. AEW doesn’t matter so they can afford to do this. And this actually streamlines their product more.

They’re assholes for hoarding talent and they’re assholes when they cut them. God, wrestling fans are the stupidest people.

If the WWE wanted to torch AEW to the ground, you’d have seen Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles and Rey Mysterio on NXT. They got Finn Balor and Charlotte Flair for a month.

Wrestling sheet marks and their inability to use ANY critical thinking skills whatsoever.

[Mr. Nerfect]

SRS has been crushing this intel for a while

Pretty much seems like the go to for wrestling news rite meow

Dave Meltzer doesn’t have any sources anymore. Everyone has iced him out on the WWE side because of his biases and generally being an asshole to friends of theirs. The AEW side treats him like a fan. They’ll say “Dave we’ve got something special lined up for this show,” but they won’t tell him what it is because they want him to be surprised. So he chases his tail with the promotion he has friends in too.

No one treats him like a journalist anymore. He’s got no more credibility and has aged out of his position. He’s just a bad wrestling commentator now. And he knows it. That’s why he’s always trying to poke people for attention and announces stories AFTER they’ve happened.

Christian Cage, Malakai Black, CM Punk, Andrade and Danielson weren’t just stories that weren’t broken by Dave, he’s flat-out retroactively said “I thought it was that” or “I guessed that” when he actually never said anything publicly about any of it.

He’s a hack now.

[hb2k]

If they weren't a threat they wouldn't have been working overtime to get that Domino's story about in the media.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They had their splash, man. 1.4 million opposed down to 1.1 million unopposed. I remember your Death of TNA podcast where you hammered in “1.1” as a sleight to TNA. AEW have their 1.1 problem too, and it’s actual viewership.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Dave Meltzer doesn’t have any sources anymore. Everyone has iced him out on the WWE side because of his biases and generally being an asshole to friends of theirs. The AEW side treats him like a fan. They’ll say “Dave we’ve got something special lined up for this show,” but they won’t tell him what it is because they want him to be surprised. So he chases his tail with the promotion he has friends in too.

No one treats him like a journalist anymore. He’s got no more credibility and has aged out of his position. He’s just a bad wrestling commentator now. And he knows it. That’s why he’s always trying to poke people for attention and announces stories AFTER they’ve happened.

Christian Cage, Malakai Black, CM Punk, Andrade and Danielson weren’t just stories that weren’t broken by Dave, he’s flat-out retroactively said “I thought it was that” or “I guessed that” when he actually never said anything publicly about any of it.

He’s a hack now.

So if I’m reading this right you’re pro Sean Ross Sapp


Agreed.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If AEW were a threat, salaries wouldn’t have gone DOWN since AEW started.

[Mr. Nerfect]

So if I’m reading this right you’re pro Sean Ross Sapp


Agreed.

I don’t know if I’m pro-Sapp, haha. He just seems to be the guy who breaks the stories. And Meltzer used to be that guy, sure, but he’s gone into this weird fanboy territory.

He deserves his historical respect, but his platform is very much based on what he’s given historically, and not so much on him still being the guy to ask.

And I don’t value him as a critic. He’s got the position of a Roger Ebert but he seems to like Michael Bay movies. It’s odd.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

R U taking about Sapp or Meltzer

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW is finally starting to do what they should have done from the start. Go after stars. The best possible outcome for them is that they’ve accidentally sent in a Trojan horse by being shitty for two years. WWE hasn’t bettered itself and now AEW might get lucky off some broken promises and guys being unhappy there.

WWE may have played themselves right there. MAYBE. It’s more likely you still get a show that is poorly booked on Wednesday nights and people ask Bryan why he retired and keep asking Punk when he gets back into wrestling.

WWE may go down, because they have the problem of being too big and too stretched to actually ever matter again. They generate all this content that they want to be sterile and static, but the problem there is that for them to remain in this privileged place, they have to generate content people want.

No one remembers that. No, not even AEW.

That’s why my big hope was that guys like Bryan, Punk, Joe and Brock would go elsewhere — to neither of these self-absorbed entities that are just going to do whatever they want to do regardless of whether or not it works.

Whatever, enjoy the death of wrestling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

R U taking about Sapp or Meltzer

Meltzer.

Sapp actually seems to break stuff. I don’t really even know when he came on the scene though.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Sapp has been the only source I’ve really paid attention to for at least a year, probably longer.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The WWE’s best course of action would be to expand to the point that there is autonomy at each branch. It gets too big for Vince. Then he retires or whatever and Raw gets booked as its own thing, and SmackDown as its own thing. They can all be unique and good in their own ways as a genre.

The annoying thing about Vince is that he’s Coca-Cola Amatil, but he only makes Coke and Diet Coke. He hasn’t done Sprite, Fanta, bottled water, etc. When he tries to branch out, it’s something entirely different. Probably because he’s slightly embarrassed to be in wrestling.

AEW are this weird fizzy drink that has all these weird flavors and is this bizarre color but people want to pass it off as Pepsi because they hate Coke.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If I were the WWE, I’d take everyone over 40 off TV and have them either work house shows, be trainers or just release them. Hope that rises all tides a bit and forces you to create new stars that have a chance to connect as prime athletes. Let AEW take in the guys you don’t really want anymore, let them become a little bigger and then watch them erode due to poor booking. Get yourself good and then hope that has increased your cultural value for when those TV deals are up.

Right now feels like a race to the bottom. Wrestling needs TV, TV doesn’t need wrestling.

[Emperor Smeat]

PWInsider.com is told this is the complete list of talents released and no other releases were given this evening.

As Dave Scherer and I discussed on the We Don't Need No Name Show this week, there has been lots of talk internally of major changes for the NXT brand including a new logo, new lighting, a focus on younger talents and a different format to the TV shows. This housecleaning tonight appears to be part of those changes.

Basically NXT becoming what the rumored NXT EVOLVE branch was being planned to be had it been launched by now.

Ever since Dusty Rhodes died and Triple H took more direct control of it, NXT had been moving very hard away of what its original purpose was meant to be in WWE. Its why there's been a rift over the past few years between Triple H & his guys and Vince & his guys over NXT being a third brand or not and why a bridge was never established between developmental and main roster to prevent the constant screwing up of call-ups.

I wouldn't be surprised if NXT UK gets the purge treatment soon since its also been getting a bit fat in terms of roster size during the coronavirus pandemic.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Other things to consider:

-WWE not granting talent releases is really obscene on the surface of it. I can’t believe they got away with it for so long. The mental health issues and just forcing people to risk their bodies for a living WHEN THEY DON’T WANT TO is just insane. I’m not saying that most of even any of the talent HAVE asked for releases, but it seems right to get rid of anyone who wants to go. People always leave that out of this discussion because “WWE bad.”

-Turning over talent is a good thing for your show, your audience and talent themselves, although they often don’t look past it being a lost paycheck. It’s good for wrestling for their to be more talent out and about, and to be spreading what they know in creative ways if there isn’t a spot for them in the WWE.

-We never get the full scoop on some of these people. You would think they’ve all passed physicals if they’re working, but there are personality issues at play too.

-WWE doesn’t have to hire anybody or isn’t obligated to keep them employed. If they don’t want to use you in a talent-based role, that’s their prerogative.

That doesn’t mean the releases are all good ideas. There are some people that could, in an ideal world, be valuable. Mercedes Martinez and Bronson Reed jump out in that list. But Bobby Fish? I’m sure he’s a great guy and all, and I’m sure he’ll be able to get work and a stable income inside or outside wrestling, but is anybody even going to care if he goes back to New Japan. He’s probably better and wiser, but come on.

[Evil Vito]

What the NXT cuts all have in common though, is that none of them really have the "WWE Look".

Leon Ruff: really small and scrawny
Mercedes Martinez: in her 40s and butch
Tyler Rust: tall but lanky without much muscle mass
Bronson Reed: comparatively short and stocky
Jake Atlas: has a gymnast's body (unsurprisingly, seeing as he was one)
Bobby Fish: also in his 40s and kinda doughy, plus now that O'Reilly is getting pushed as a singles guy he’s probably viewed as extraneous

There were reports that the new edict when signing talent was to focus on bodies - over 6-foot, 260+ lbs, etc, so maybe this is the higher ups clearing house of people they don't see a future in, which in and of itself is telling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Basically NXT becoming what the rumored NXT EVOLVE branch was being planned to be had it been launched by now.

Ever since Dusty Rhodes died and Triple H took more direct control of it, NXT had been moving very hard away of what its original purpose was meant to be in WWE. Its why there's been a rift over the past few years between Triple H & his guys and Vince & his guys over NXT being a third brand or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if NXT UK gets the purge treatment soon since its also been getting a bit fat in terms of roster size during the coronavirus pandemic.

There is no rift between whether or not NXT is a third brand or not, lol. What does that even mean? It’s a two-hour show they monetize by airing on USA to help offset the costs of having a factory that pumps out wrestlers to fill the 7, 8, 9 hours of content they pump out each week.

NXT became a bit of a vanity project of Triple H because his ego wants the wrestling world to see him as a great genius even though he wouldn’t have shared a ring with half the guys there, and he wants the business world to see him as heir apparent so he can get an executive job when they sell to Disney.

Yeah, NXT used to “try harder” to be something other than an alternative, but that was Triple H’s prerogative before it became monetized. It was an angle for the WWE Network, a bit of an audition and was an hour a week. Vince doesn’t take the same prerogative when he’s booking his show. It’s assembly line.

Should it be that way. I don’t think so, and the biggest concern I’ve got for a Triple H-led WWE is that he sees it that way too and NXT was just a lark for a few years, but we’ll wait and see with that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What the NXT cuts all have in common though, is that none of them really have the "WWE Look".

Leon Ruff: really small and scrawny
Mercedes Martinez: in her 40s and butch
Tyler Rust: tall but lanky without much muscle mass
Bronson Reed: comparatively short and stocky
Jake Atlas: has a gymnast's body (unsurprisingly, seeing as he was one)
Bobby Fish: also in his 40s and kinda doughy, plus now that O'Reilly is getting pushed as a singles guy he’s probably viewed as extraneous

There were reports that the new edict when signing talent was to focus on bodies - over 6-foot, 260+ lbs, etc, so maybe this is the higher ups clearing house of people they don't see a future in, which in and of itself is telling.

So why haven’t they fired Roderick Strong and Adam Cole then? Who in NXT actually has a WWE body? Cezar Benoni and Tino Sabbatelli? They got cut too. AEW has scooped up a lot of bodies from NXT.

Talent get cut for a number of reasons. It can be a look, it can be what you have or haven’t produced, it can be attitude, it can just be time. It can be because you’re 6’8, 320lbs and did a cannonball onto your own head on PPV and you’re the drizzling shits.

[Mr. Nerfect]

NXT definitely needs a major overhaul. Developmental does as well. I hope it becomes less sterile in the future. I get why they expand overseas in a branding sense (there’s that bullshit word again). But I think they should have different styles of school within the continental United States.

Wrestlers learning something one way helps with the tedium.

[Fignuts]

AEW needs to pick up Mercedes immediately.

[Mr. Nerfect]

For quite a few years now, I’ve thought that the WWE should reinstate WCW. Take everyone over 40 — everyone from Randy Orton to Shinsuke Nakamura. The “backstory” if you even need to get this far is that WCW has the funds to buy their WWE deals out and get them all to sign. The show is just wrestling, in an 18x18 ring, with cables, with its own aesthetic.

Do one Nitro a week, 12 PPVs a year. Throw all the 205 Live guys on there for a Cruiserweight Division. You don’t mention WWE, take shots at WWE. You just put on wrestling and that’s where the old guys go.

You’ve immediately got a roster of AJ Styles, Bobby Lashley, Edge, Sheamus, Cesaro, Shinsuke Nakamura, Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio, Shelton Benjamin and Kofi Kingston right there. Have no McMahon around any of it. Send over Bruce Prichard and Johnny Ace to run it or whatever. Hire Lance Storm to be an agent. Finlay, Billy Kidman, Booker T, Brian Kendrick or whatever.

That show’s going to get as many viewers as Raw. Now you’ve cleared up a whole bunch of roster space and are in the position where there is less clutter and more of a need to get guys up. You’ve still got Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Big E, Drew McIntyre, etc. Move up guys like Chad Gable, Montez Ford. Suddenly everything is less static.

If WCW is #1 and absolutely killing it. Cool, whatever. You still own it. If WWE makes a surge and a comeback with a focus on younger talent? Great. You’ve got three shows that are making giant bank, two “products” for people who might prefer one to the other, and then you’ve kept everyone employed, producing content, but not getting in the way of one another.

WCW would also be a great place to debut talent from developmental or that you want to have a look at, and then you bring them over to WWE TV when you are ready to make them a young star.

This COULD have been what Raw and SmackDown were/are, but the formula and presentation is too much the same and there just hasn’t been that effort made to separate them philosophically that I don’t even think people would buy it now.

Plus, I see value in WCW as an alternative branding, as well as reestablishing PPV as a revenue stream and using old trademarks and IP.

People are probably groaning at the idea, but don’t tell me that you wouldn’t watch a Starrcade with Brock Lesnar vs. Bobby Lashley, AJ Styles vs. Finn Balor, Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Randy Orton, Cesaro vs. Rey Mysterio, etc. It would be stonkers.

And that show probably allows them to enter the market with another $100 million per year for talent they already pay.

You don’t do the nWo. You don’t have Eric Bischoff and Jay Leno. You don’t do DQs at the end of every main event. But the essence is “WCW has the money to pluck all these world class names out of the WWE to end their careers for the one-time giant of professional wrestling.”

Just don’t go plastering “WWE Presents” on everything, or forcing your cringe-inducing aesthetics over everything, etc. *Expands* your business (which is the appealing thing about it to a boardroom), redistributes talent, uses it better by giving them a fresh environment (which is important for stars that have been around for a while), and allows for a more streamlined baseline WWE product that is hopefully more appealing than it is as this giant hodge podge.

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW needs to pick up Mercedes immediately.

She’s one of the more puzzling. You’d think there would be a place for her somewhere. NXT as a player/coach. She’s one that I guess maybe she asked for it? Or maybe because she wasn’t going to be main roster they just thought “fuck it.” But she’s one that I wouldn’t have cut based on talent.

[Vastardikai]

Anthony Henry (Asher Hale) may be a good get for AEW.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I haven’t seen him wrestle. I didn’t even know he existed. He probably does it very well, but at 5’10, 180lbs, I think I’m just tired of seeing that wrestler.

[Jordan]

Can't believe it about Giant Zanjeer, protégé of The Great Khali.

[Triple A]

Jake Atlas and Ari Sterling (Alex Zayne) were "indie darlings" before they signed with WWE... could def see AEW picking them up, especially Atlas

[Triple A]

Damn @ Bronson Reed... he was getting Raw/SmackDown dark matches and possibly about to be called up, and now cut

[Triple A]

like 2 guys on the 205 Live roster now, wonder if the show will be gone very soon

Ikemen Jiro and Grayson Waller

[Vastardikai]

I haven’t seen him wrestle. I didn’t even know he existed. He probably does it very well, but at 5’10, 180lbs, I think I’m just tired of seeing that wrestler.

Fair enough. I say he'd be a good get for them because he fits that mold of what they look for.

[slik]

SRS has been crushing this intel for a while

Pretty much seems like the go to for wrestling news rite meow

I concur on Sapp


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">SRS said on his SD post-show there’s some interesting WWE/FOX stuff that will come into focus next week.</p>&mdash; Danny (@dajosc11) <a href="https://twitter.com/dajosc11/status/1423841729862684672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GD]

It’s very disheartening to see the number of people WWE has released over the past year. I know it’s just business but if I were a talent, I’d be very concerned about job security.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WWE has released the following 41 people since April 2021:<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWERAW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWERAW</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SmackDown?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SmackDown</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWENXT?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWENXT</a> <a href="https://t.co/EeVgw4qsiS">pic.twitter.com/EeVgw4qsiS</a></p>&mdash; Colby F. of Fightful &amp; WrestleZone (@ColbsMMA) <a href="https://twitter.com/ColbsMMA/status/1423835829672292359?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Triple A]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you are a top independent wrestler in 2021, why would you even consider taking an NXT contract at this point unless they significantly raise the money? You are just as likely to get stuck in a lease in Florida with no job as you are of making it there.</p>&mdash; SoCal UNCENSORED (@socaluncensored) <a href="https://twitter.com/socaluncensored/status/1423855796174036994?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

I wonder if they want to revamp NXT to make it more like Monday Night RAW


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">PWInsider reports a possible reason for the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWENXT?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWENXT</a> releases are apart of efforts to rebrand the show with a new logo, lighting, and format. Will be interesting to see what happens. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWE?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWE</a></p>&mdash; John Clark (@johnrclark12) <a href="https://twitter.com/johnrclark12/status/1423821953908019201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Emperor Smeat]

I concur on Sapp


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">SRS said on his SD post-show there’s some interesting WWE/FOX stuff that will come into focus next week.</p>&mdash; Danny (@dajosc11) <a href="https://twitter.com/dajosc11/status/1423841729862684672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Supposedly FOX has been growing more upset with WWE in recent times. Not enough for them to suddenly pull the plug on their tv deal but something that could easily come back to haunt WWE when it comes time for the next round of tv deals.

Mix of the recent waves of talent releases baffling them in terms of some of the names gone, them losing interest in promoting non-SmackDown stuff on their network and properties, and them growing upset over WWE's deal with Peacock since they feel NBC has been benefiting way more than they have with their deals with WWE.

Both PWInsider and Observer have also recently mentioned chatter from their sources about the growing unrest at FOX over their WWE deal.

This was from this week's Newsletter about FOX:

In the promotion of FOX’s Tubi streaming service when touting sports available, it has been very notable no mention of WWE. From the point of WWE selling its PPVs to Peacock it has been a major issue with FOX that their television show is promoting the key events being on Peacock, the streaming service of NBC

This was from a recent Q&A article on PWI over similar issues they've heard about:

Q - When they announced the deal in 2018, WWE personalities were all over FOX shows, they had the WWE Backstage show, there was all this synergy and now, there’s really nothing except for a podcast. I get the pandemic happened but really, it seems like it’s gone cold except for Smackdown replays in the middle of the night on FS1, 2, etc. Did I miss something?

A - No, you aren’t alone in noticing that. As Dave Scherer and I have discussed in recent weeks on The We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Name Show in our Elite section, there’s been talk in the FOX circles about some unhappiness with WWE. Some sources have pointed to the idea that Smackdown is a FOX property that FOX is paying basically around a billion dollars over five years for but that show ends up streaming on Peacock, an NBCUniversal property now that they have licensed the WWE Network. Beyond that, all the PPVs being built on Smackdown have storylines that culminate on Peacock as well, which effectively means a FOX show that FOX pays for is pushing people to a NBC Universal property. That’s probably at least part of the reason why we saw the Roman Reigns-Rey Mysterio Hell In A Cell bout shifted over to Smackdown. WWE is trying to serve two TV masters at the same time, so there's going to be a pull from each side.

As you mentioned, a lot of the ancillary programming disappeared and so did a lot of FOX’s promotion for WWE and Smackdown. I just checked and the last time FOX Sports issued a press release for something WWE related was this past March and previously, it was January. Certainly if FOX wanted WWE to produce something out of their virtual studio for them, you’d think WWE would jump right on that - that’s common sense. Certainly there’s a big difference from how FOX was pushing the property when they first signed their agreement, for sure. Part of that, however, was the pandemic. Whether they ramp up more, I don't know.

[slik]

I didn't know FOX owned Tubi, interesting


Andrew Zarian of Mat Men Podcast reporting more releases to come in the near future

[Jordan]

I wonder if WWE will use the Fox drama to wiggle into a deal with NBC for Smackdown at the end of the current contract. If not NBC then perhaps back to USA. I highly doubt Tubi will be be a success. I think the name alone is a flop. It's been out for over a year and I've never known anyone who uses it or has heard of it.

[Evil Vito]

10 years ago

"Hey kid, it's a budget thing, best of luck in your future endeavors"

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I don’t care how many times I share this video lol <br><br>This is just a reminder that CM Punk was right all along. <a href="https://t.co/kIqzPaUAgx">pic.twitter.com/kIqzPaUAgx</a></p>&mdash; ❦ ꫝꪗ᥇𝘳𝓲ᦔ ❦ (@TheHybridEnigma) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheHybridEnigma/status/1423822317428387842?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[xrodmuc316]

Streaming isnt new, if Fox cared about streaming rights for Smackdown they should have included that in the contract.

[Sepholio]

Yeah if anything Foxs people made a stupid deal. What did they think would happen when they basically decided to "share" a company with NBC? Did they think WWE would just fuck off and ignore their other, pre-existing contracts? Seems like it was destined to be a shitshow tbh.

[Sepholio]

Just read that Pete Dunne is also in that same situation as Adam Cole in that his contract is also expiring soon and he hasn't resigned.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And more to come. <a href="https://t.co/ZblQiPnUIj">https://t.co/ZblQiPnUIj</a></p>&mdash; Andrew Zarian (@AndrewZarian) <a href="https://twitter.com/AndrewZarian/status/1423984426606813184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[slik]

Fans were taught not to invest in people in NXT because they would likely have their legs cut off on the main roster.

Fans now being taught not to invest in people on the main roster because, successful or not, they could be axed.

[slik]

<iframe id="reddit-embed" src="https://www.redditmedia.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/ozm7xz/opinion_for_the_past_12_months_wwes_offcamera/h813kpa/?depth=1&amp;showmore=false&amp;embed=true&amp;showmedia=false" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups" style="border: none;" height="449" width="640" scrolling="no"></iframe>

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I wonder if WWE shouldn’t ditch the monthly joint PPV model and go back to having brand exclusive shows. Ley all the smackdown ppvs be available on the fox sports app. Let the Raw shows be on peacock. Migrate the Fox ppvs to peacock a week or so after the live event. Keep the two night mania going but one night on Fox for all the smackdown matches, the other for all the Raw matches on peacock.

They’d never do it but if building storylines to drive viewers to peacock is the issue Fox is having, maybe that’s the solution to generate for traffic and app sign ups.

[Sepholio]

I dont think there is any way you will make both Fox and NBC happy. Unless they had dollar for dollar pricing and exactly equal amounts of content which obviously isn't in the cards. Or if they truly split the rosters again and go to alternating PPVs between Peacock and Tubi so each network has their own unique offering with maybe 2 crossover shows a year, one to be aired on each network.

I can see why Fox is upset with the deal and you don't hear the same rumbling from NBC. NBC gets more content for less money and has the streaming stuff on top of it. NBC clearly has the better deal here. And considering the WWEs downward trend continuing they will be in a much better position to negotiate a new deal when this one ends, and Fox being upset only strengthens that position too. Fox knows they got the super short end of the stick here and they cant hide their displeasure any more.

Imo it would be in WWEs best interests right now to give Fox SOMETHING. I don't know what it is, but you gotta toss them a bone to make them happy. Maybe start by trying to not cross promote the stuff on NBC during Fox broadcasts because that clearly irks them. Let's be real, WWE doesn't really need to cross promote and advertise on the different shows. They aren't gaining any viewers doing that at this point. The audience is there and they either knows whats going on on each show or don't care enough to know, but either way they don't need the reminding. They'll watch it regardless. That by itself won't be enough to placate FOX though. Think WWE should maybe do a few "supershows" and give Fox the rights to broadcast them and give them some kind of timed exclusivity to stream them, maybe 6 months or a year or something. The only exception would be for WWEs YT channel for a few clips. I dunno what they can do short term other than that really.

[Sepholio]

And similar to your idea Damian, I think they could possibly think about going back to brand exclusive shows and streaming them on that networks streaming service, but ONLY for PPVs. Basically every 3 months would be RAW PPV on Peacock, SD PPV on Tubi, big PPV on both networks. However long they have exclusivity for the PPVs applies both ways, ie after a couple months tubi could air the last RAW PPV or something too. But like I said I would only do this in regards to PPVs.

If Fox wanted to air SD on tubi as well, for instance, I'd let them but with the caveat that it would still be on peacock too, while RAW and NXT stay exclusive to peacock. Can't give them everything or it risks irking NBC too much.

Obviously none of this may be possible. I don't know how the streaming contracts are set up with NBC so this may all be moot.

[XL]

Brand exclusive “PPVs” require roster depth. Well, good ones do. That was the issue the first and second time around; the undercard was DOA. With the cuts, and the mishandling of the talent they have kept, they’d have a lot of work to do. I guess that’s predicated on the assumption that they’d want to make the shows good, and well…

[Damian Rey 2.0]

If they were to do the brand exclusive specials, I honestly wouldn’t make them more than 2 hours, and maybe an hour for a pre show to hype the card and give the audience a warm up match. Book 4-5 of your biggest matches, have some short segments to transition to the next match, and call a day. They don’t need to have 3 hour ppvs if they stuck with being brand exclusive.

[Jordan]

They aren't going to do brand exclusive PPV's again for the streaming networks. WWE's deal is with Peacock, they aren't going to take away from them to give to Fox and keep all the profits. This whole ordeal will heighten negotiations at the end of the TV rights deal and probably be one of the straws in breaking the camels back of WWE on Fox. Fox is not thrilled with WWE's ratings, they are below what was anticipated and what Fox paid for. WWE will do their best to leverage the best deal for Smackdown on USA. I believe that the Fox deal was for 3 years, the Peacock deal is for 5 years.

WWE is currently preparing for this situation by tightening up their talent wage bill and when they end up taking a loss for a smaller rights deal for Smackdown on USA (once the Fox contract is up) they will still be making a huge profit, due to the massively lower wage bill. WWE has cut 119 wrestlers and a lot of staff in the past 2 years. They are adapting and trying to stay ahead of the curve.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I wonder if WWE will use the Fox drama to wiggle into a deal with NBC for Smackdown at the end of the current contract. If not NBC then perhaps back to USA. I highly doubt Tubi will be be a success. I think the name alone is a flop. It's been out for over a year and I've never known anyone who uses it or has heard of it.

I'm sure they will. I've been thinking the exact same thing as soon as I found out that FOX is pissed about the whole Peacock thing.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I also wonder how many of the 40+ cuts over the past year have had anything to do with the lingering pandemic and it's effects, not just on WWE but the entire wrestling industry (and yes, I, like everyone am well aware that it has affected way more than just that).

[Jordan]

It's important to remember that the past year was WWE's most successful year ever financially. I think what the pandemic really has hurt is future plans. NXT has been aiming for huge international expansion but now with covid those plans aren't as secure to take a leap on. With those international expansion's quelled now Vince has gone to development and seen that Triple H has tried to make NXT far more of brand than Vince ever wanted. It would cost a lot of money to expand NXT and push it the way Triple H wanted to.

I see WWE raiding NXT of it's top stars that they see potential in for the main roster and letting the show continue through it's current contract where it may get canceled or severely reduced when it comes to payment for the next tv rights deal. And then perhaps WWE can chose to tac on a bigger charge to Peacock for exclusive rights or figure out another option entirely. Either way I think based on what I've read recently that NXT as a pushed brand is pretty much done.

[xrodmuc316]

I'm sure they will. I've been thinking the exact same thing as soon as I found out that FOX is pissed about the whole Peacock thing.

If the long term goal of NBC/Universal is to purchase WWE in a UFC/ESPN type deal, which has been speculated as the reason for the Peacock deal, then they will absolutely need to outbid Fox for Smackdown.

In fact with the timing of the deals, if the intention is to purchase WWE once the Peacock deal expires in 2026, it would likely be announced in late 2025. If I remember correctly, the current TV deals expire in 2024. NBC would need to have Smackdown under contract to avoid a whole mess of issues. Fox will probably offer a better deal than they currently have just to drive up the price on NBC out of spite.

Bottom line, Vince gets richer and maybe he will finally retire.

[Lock Jaw]

Release everyone

[slik]

Release the hounds

[XL]

They can’t; they already let Deam Ambrose go…

[slik]

Meltzer reporting Vince/Nick Khan's new mantra is 'no more midgets' and 'no one over 30' for NXT.

Now that 'no more midgets' is the mantra I really want them to bring up Gargano and give him a comedy gimmick and put him in the 24/7 scene entirely for the online meltdowns

[erickman]

Meltzer reporting Vince/Nick Khan's new mantra is 'no more midgets' and 'no one over 30' for NXT.

Now that 'no more midgets' is the mantra I really want them to bring up Gargano and give him a comedy gimmick and put him in the 24/7 scene entirely for the online meltdowns

so is rockstar spud still there,

[slik]

Yeah, he's still there.

Rumor going around is that HHH got his ass handed to him by Vince in front of Pritchard and Nick Khan for making a new generation of Jimmy Harts instead of a new generation of Dwayne Johnsons. Vince, Pritchard and John Laurinaitis are the ones deciding whose cut and Vince/Pritchard/Laurinaitis will also spearhead the revamp and new direction of NXT.

[Jordan]

HHH: Let me introduce you to Jake Atlas!

Vince: GODDAMNIT

[slik]

Meltzer said there will be some exceptions to the rule of no shorties and no one over 30, as Vince does like Adam Cole, but they will be the rarity going forward.

Rovert noted on Twitter Vince wants to call up a ton of women to RAW.

[Fignuts]

How hard is gertner's erection right now, I wonder?

[Danny Electric]

What a bunch of shit company run by old bastards who jerk off over big muscly men.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is getting attention again so just wanted to let people know that after this tweet, two NXT wrestlers DM'd me to say they have to stick to these similar match routines and were as about as thrilled about it as I was. <a href="https://t.co/Z3IAHfU1PJ">https://t.co/Z3IAHfU1PJ</a></p>&mdash; forever tired (@Maffewgregg) <a href="https://twitter.com/Maffewgregg/status/1424425159801425926?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[#1-norm-fan]

I mean, I disagree with nearly everything WWE does but trying to get more wrestlers who look like grown men that could kick someone’s ass in a fight and fewer cruiserweights is a very good idea.

[slik]

If they are aiming for the OVW days of Lesnar/Cena/Orton/Batista being top developmental products that is wise IMO.

I think Vince also changes his mind A LOT these days so I half expect him to abandon this idea in a few months.

[Jordan]

I mean, I disagree with nearly everything WWE does but trying get more wrestlers who look like grown men that could kick someone’s ass in a fight and fewer cruiserweights is a very good idea.

Yup

[Evil Vito]

Focusing on body guys is all well and good but then I see what this company is doing with Donovan Dijak since he got on the main roster and I remember that this company hasn’t got a clue.

[#1-norm-fan]

Right. They don’t have a clue regardless of body type though. I’m just looking for a glimmer of hope in them focusing on the proper talent. We’re at the point now where MY negative ass is the optimist.

[xrodmuc316]

Yeah, he's still there.

Rumor going around is that HHH got his ass handed to him by Vince in front of Pritchard and Nick Khan for making a new generation of Jimmy Harts instead of a new generation of Dwayne Johnsons. Vince, Pritchard and John Laurinaitis are the ones deciding whose cut and Vince/Pritchard/Laurinaitis will also spearhead the revamp and new direction of NXT.

I dont know how they could possibly blame Triple H when there is like 25 examples of guys that were super over when called up, and it was Vince and company who dropped the ball.

[Jordan]

I know he's the most insanely interesting character in wrestling history but honestly I can't wait for Vince to die so that the company may actually change and get good again. Then we can get some good books or doc's about his life. There is no way he's gonna be able to be honest about anything via writing a book or in a doc. No f'n way.

[Jordan]

And for the record Triple H definitely showed that he could build a nationally touring brand from nothing. Sure with the help of the hottest indy stars of the time, but still he made it happen and it was something that Vince never would have done. Triple H hasn't failed with NXT, Vince got his hands on it and either by shitting on the NXT stars pushed to the main roster or Kevin Dunn... IDK what the exact cause is but Vince ruined NXT.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

WWE: We’re going to focus on large men who look tough!


Braun: https://64-media-tumblr-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w820/s/64.media.tumblr.com/bc9127c0261fc8cc2a8975ccdce16aba/tumblr_p1br24lIhh1vla0d3o3_500.gifv

[#1-norm-fan]

Ideally they would focus on Johnny Curtises who look like, wrestle like and have the charisma of Johnny Curtises.

But fuck another boom. They got a library to make money off of.

[Triple A]

The sick fucks at WWE tried to keep the trademark for Chelsea Green's real name after they released her, but then she tweeted about it and WWE started getting internet backlash, so they now are going to back off and let her have the trademark to her real birth name, according to Fightful

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I never thought I’d be in a legal battle for my BIRTH GIVEN name… �� <br>Going to discuss it on tomorrow’s episode of <a href="https://twitter.com/GreenWEnvyPod?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GreenWEnvyPod</a></p>&mdash; CHELSEA GREEN (@ImChelseaGreen) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImChelseaGreen/status/1424372252800393228?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[xrodmuc316]

The sick fucks at WWE tried to keep the trademark for Chelsea Green's real name after they released her, but then she tweeted about it and WWE started getting internet backlash, so they now are going to back off and let her have the trademark to her real birth name, according to Fightful

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I never thought I’d be in a legal battle for my BIRTH GIVEN name… �� <br>Going to discuss it on tomorrow’s episode of <a href="https://twitter.com/GreenWEnvyPod?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GreenWEnvyPod</a></p>&mdash; CHELSEA GREEN (@ImChelseaGreen) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImChelseaGreen/status/1424372252800393228?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

LOL! I always wondered when wrestlers legally changed their names (Warrior, Ryback) to get around trademarks, if WWE would ever try it the other way around. Looks like we now have the answer :rofl:

[xrodmuc316]

Ideally they would focus on Johnny Curtises who look like, wrestle like and have the charisma of Johnny Curtises.

But fuck another boom. They got a library to make money off of.

https://c.tenor.com/3sYjo6avzjgAAAAC/ec3-entrance.gif

[Triple A]

idk if it's true but there were rumors that Keith Lee got "heat" with WWE because he was battling them over the trademark of his real name also

[slik]

I once read that over the last decade Vince changed his mind to see if talent can 'sink or swim' and that's why anytime other people tell him "hey you gotta check out ______ from NXT" if he decides to give them a main roster call-up he intentionally removes some parts of their gimmick that got over in NXT to see if they can 'sink or swim' without what made them a hit.

In theory, that sounds like a good test but if you apply it to wrestlers past it would have hindered so many from getting over. It's sort of the opposite of the Paul Heyman mentality of 'highlight the strengths, hide the weaknesses'.

[BigCrippyZ]

idk if it's true but there were rumors that Keith Lee got "heat" with WWE because he was battling them over the trademark of his real name also

It's incredibly difficult to trademark a legal name for a person that has any kind of past activities doing something similar. This is because federal (and individual state) trademark protections apply only to using the trademarked name with each particular set of goods or services, (i.e., athletic performances, theatrical performances, clothing/apparel, film/tv appearances, etc.) If a wrestler is using their name in multiple, or one or more, states, for one or more goods or services, it's incredibly unlikely that a federal USPTO trademark application will be approved for those same goods/services, especially if they're no longer employed or affiliated with the applying entity, in this case WWE.

[#1-norm-fan]

https://c.tenor.com/3sYjo6avzjgAAAAC/ec3-entrance.gif

I don’t know if you’re just randomly referencing their NXT feud or if you’re implying EC3 is on Johnny Curtis’ level?

If it’s the latter, I’d like xrod banned. I think this warrants it.

[slik]

DX in the MUD


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If Ciampa and Gargano had walked up to Bret and told him their idea was to go 45 with a bunch of bad community theater &quot;Why am I so violent!?&quot; crap he'd have got on the phone to Vince and told him get rid of those guys. HBK said &quot;Oh that sounds great here's how to make it worse!&quot;</p>&mdash; Rasslin Uploader (Armstrong Alley on YT) (@KrisPLettuce) <a href="https://twitter.com/KrisPLettuce/status/1424374934466400257?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Triple A]

It's incredibly difficult to trademark a legal name for a person that has any kind of past activities doing something similar. This is because federal (and individual state) trademark protections apply only to using the trademarked name with each particular set of goods or services, (i.e., athletic performances, theatrical performances, clothing/apparel, film/tv appearances, etc.) If a wrestler is using their name in multiple, or one or more, states, for one or more goods or services, it's incredibly unlikely that a federal USPTO trademark application will be approved for those same goods/services, especially if they're no longer employed or affiliated with the applying entity, in this case WWE.

With Keith Lee, I heard they are trying to get him to give them written consent, but he won't do it and is trying to trademark his name on his own

[Vastardikai]

This is something I mentioned somewhere else, and I stand by this:

Cameron Grimes (aka Steampunk Jimmy Garvin) will have a better main roster career than Karrion Kross. Because there aren't any expectations for him to be some huge star and he's a goofy midcard act that can get over without being too big for its britches.

Also, L.A. Knight will probably get over on the Main Roster as well, for different reasons. Or, failing that, he'll start teaching promo classes.

[xrodmuc316]

I don’t know if you’re just randomly referencing their NXT feud or if you’re implying EC3 is on Johnny Curtis’ level?

If it’s the latter, I’d like xrod banned. I think this warrants it.

Lol, the former

nDl8gqJY2xQ

Dirty Curty :rofl:

[xrodmuc316]

I once read that over the last decade Vince changed his mind to see if talent can 'sink or swim' and that's why anytime other people tell him "hey you gotta check out ______ from NXT" if he decides to give them a main roster call-up he intentionally removes some parts of their gimmick that got over in NXT to see if they can 'sink or swim' without what made them a hit.

In theory, that sounds like a good test but if you apply it to wrestlers past it would have hindered so many from getting over. It's sort of the opposite of the Paul Heyman mentality of 'highlight the strengths, hide the weaknesses'.

Like randomly taking a great Heel like Bobby Roode and making him a generic babyface? I still dont understand why that happened :mad:

[#1-norm-fan]

DX in the MUD


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If Ciampa and Gargano had walked up to Bret and told him their idea was to go 45 with a bunch of bad community theater &quot;Why am I so violent!?&quot; crap he'd have got on the phone to Vince and told him get rid of those guys. HBK said &quot;Oh that sounds great here's how to make it worse!&quot;</p>&mdash; Rasslin Uploader (Armstrong Alley on YT) (@KrisPLettuce) <a href="https://twitter.com/KrisPLettuce/status/1424374934466400257?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

KRIS P LETTUCE????!!!!

[McLegend]

So is HBK generally not liked as a backstage creative person?

[slik]

When he was announced as joining the PC/NXT staff I think many thought he'd reel in some of the PWG 2010 style into better storytelling, instead he's intensified it. I think some wrestlers love that and some are not fans.

I kind of view it as 'what if every match on a show was a Young Bucks match', which is not my thing.

[drave]

Meltzer reporting Vince/Nick Khan's new mantra is 'no more midgets' and 'no one over 30' for NXT.

Now that 'no more midgets' is the mantra I really want them to bring up Gargano and give him a comedy gimmick and put him in the 24/7 scene entirely for the online meltdowns


Just shut down all of NXT at this point, lol. Stupid. People whining about "big guys who look like they can really beat people up" in a fake fucking combat sport are whatever, lol. Except for guys who are super tiny like Adam Cole, I get that.



Meltzer said there will be some exceptions to the rule of no shorties and no one over 30, as Vince does like Adam Cole, but they will be the rarity going forward.

Rovert noted on Twitter Vince wants to call up a ton of women to RAW.


Adam Cole is going to die on the main roster. He will look like WWE's Marko Stunt against the likes of nearly anyone. Rey Mysterio is WWE's Paul Titan compared to Cole. Speaking of, Paul Titan to AEW please. Right god damn now. That dude "goes hard in the gym".



And for the record Triple H definitely showed that he could build a nationally touring brand from nothing. Sure with the help of the hottest indy stars of the time, but still he made it happen and it was something that Vince never would have done. Triple H hasn't failed with NXT, Vince got his hands on it and either by shitting on the NXT stars pushed to the main roster or Kevin Dunn... IDK what the exact cause is but Vince ruined NXT.


Good lord is NXT years past an amazing watch. Nearly any Takeover from a few years back is a great watch. Nakamura and Zayn immediately come to mind. Shit, really any NXT Nakamura is gold.




Also


https://twitter.com/i/status/1424390788667019272

[BigCrippyZ]

With Keith Lee, I heard they are trying to get him to give them written consent, but he won't do it and is trying to trademark his name on his own

Yeah, without his written authorization, it's very unlikely they'd be able to successfully register the trademark of his own name with the USPTO for any of the classes of goods/services (clothing, merch, live entertainment performances, media appearances and performances, etc.) especially if he'd been using his own name prior in selling/marketing/performing for any of those same classes of goods/services.

[owenbunny]

Bad Bunny not released

[erickman]

Yeah, without his written authorization, it's very unlikely they'd be able to successfully register the trademark of his own name with the USPTO for any of the classes of goods/services (clothing, merch, live entertainment performances, media appearances and performances, etc.) especially if he'd been using his own name prior in selling/marketing/performing for any of those same classes of goods/services.

ok why did the wwe not give him another name that was dumb of them in the begining.

[BigCrippyZ]

ok why did the wwe not give him another name that was dumb of them in the begining.

Probably assumed he'd agree to let them take over ownership of the trademark, at least while he's under contract with them. It's pretty common to assign that right over, during the term of an agreement at least, but it's not always the smart thing to do and if the talent has any leverage they should try to avoid doing so.

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Perception means everything especially when you are working with partners who are not pro wrestling fans and don't have deep knowledge of the talent. <br><br>In reality are the changes coming to NXT a bad thing? Time till tell. 2/2 <a href="https://t.co/hNxa3qxZG1">https://t.co/hNxa3qxZG1</a></p>&mdash; Andrew Zarian (@AndrewZarian) <a href="https://twitter.com/AndrewZarian/status/1424794268456062978?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Reading the reports of new PC hiring guidelines it sounds more like a Grindr Bio: I’m not into ……��</p>&mdash; Parrow (@Parrow_) <a href="https://twitter.com/Parrow_/status/1424754984449679366?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[xrodmuc316]

ok why did the wwe not give him another name that was dumb of them in the begining.

They had a pretty long timeframe when they let the wrestlers keep their names when they came in. I believe starting with Samoa Joe through around Keith Lee. Not sure if Keith Lee was the last one before they started randomly picking names for new signees again, but he was close to the end of that.

But a lot of people came in with names they already had established.

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Perception means everything especially when you are working with partners who are not pro wrestling fans and don't have deep knowledge of the talent. <br><br>In reality are the changes coming to NXT a bad thing? Time till tell. 2/2 <a href="https://t.co/hNxa3qxZG1">https://t.co/hNxa3qxZG1</a></p>&mdash; Andrew Zarian (@AndrewZarian) <a href="https://twitter.com/AndrewZarian/status/1424794268456062978?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Reading the reports of new PC hiring guidelines it sounds more like a Grindr Bio: I’m not into ……��</p>&mdash; Parrow (@Parrow_) <a href="https://twitter.com/Parrow_/status/1424754984449679366?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I buy that argument for big stars, but I doubt any of these NXT releases are on the Networks or Partners radar.

[Vastardikai]

Parrow's post made me at first like "How would he know?"

Then I remembered, and was like... "Ok... that makes sense."

[weather vane]

Soooo Bray Wyatt still with WWE?

[Tom Guycott]

I mean, I disagree with nearly everything WWE does but trying to get more wrestlers who look like grown men that could kick someone’s ass in a fight and fewer cruiserweights is a very good idea.

The biggest problem there, though, is that WWE themselves created this problem to begin with by codifying this. Trying to populate the entire roster with bodybuilders and swimsuit magazine models with a tertiary emphasis on getting them to work well in the ring or on the mic (or both) is a stupid way to approach the endeavor, coupled with consistently telling people through words and deeds that anyone they consider "small" is worthless (and even that is relative - some of the guys who are considered GOAT historically aren't really people who strictly pass that eye test).

Then, they'll do shit like have a guy the size of Braun Strowman and try to make him work like he's Ricochet. Or not realize the reason why there was so much groaning and eye rolling at the rehire of Eva Marie was because nearly every match she had, she nearly Droz'd her opponent, herself, or both, but she was getting fast tracked to rule the Divas Division because she's "pretty" and was a bitch on an auxillary reality show that most wrestling fans weren't watching and that was supposed to be a 1:1 translation on her being the hottest female heel WWE had ever seen. It didn't.

Instead of looking at the issue of start-stop pushes and not properly building or presenting guys (colloquial - men and women) in ways that will eventually work them up the card, they do shit like bank all their money on a handful of talent (look how long it took for them to finally get Roman in the position they wanted him in from day one) and let everyone else languish. They script bullshit and write dumbass tripe angles and sometimes try super hard with the shittiest gimmicks possible neverminding what it might do detrimentally to th
folks on the roster saddled with this shit. They panic and call people back who were over 10 years plus ago; often at the detriment of people they could be focusing on now. And if anyone outside of their pet projects fail, it's their own fault for not being backed by the machine that quite honestly likely promised them the moon and then cuts them a month later.

But no... they failed because they're not 6'6 and 285lbs of weightlifter muscle. If only they willed themselves to grow taller, they might make it in the business.

There was more to this, but I don't have time to write it now, and I know I'm going to lose the tangent I was on if I try to come back to it later. Point is, there's too much stock put into this "midgets" mentality or the "needs to look like a star walking through the airport"... and by "star" they actually mean giant and jacked up. If the machine got behind some of these folks like they got behind others, there's no way the world wouldn't know who Shinsuke Nakamura was at this point if they treated him more like a guy who has the intangible charisma he has and less like generic foreign guy #582. There are plenty of others who could have been or currently be stars if the company would allow them to be stars instead of stunting them because THEY don't believe they are stars.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

If they want to push the big scary looking guys that’s fine, but I’ve not seen much evidence they know how to do that.

Lashley - had to leave the company and rebuild his image, came back and got put in two all time shitty feuds with Sami and Rusev
Drew - had to leave the company and rebuild his image
Sheamus - has had his ups and downs, the one time they pushed him as top guy they made him a bland smiling babyface who said Fella a lot
Priest - treading water feuding with Miz and Morrison
Viking Raiders - the Viking Experience
Keith Lee - ugh
Mace and T-Bar - LOL
Omos - extremely limited, just kinda stands there
Titus - theyve tried but nothing has worked, basically a big lovable dork who does charity work
Big E - seemed happy being part of an all time great faction, we’ll see how this one plays out
Corbin - made the most unwatchable character in wrestling and used as the scapegoat for bad ratings
Azeez - just kinda stands there
Roman - seems like they finally got it right but man did it take a long time to get there

And that’s just guys currently active on the main roster. Not a lot of home runs there. But I’m sure bringing in a bunch of brand new big guys with no experience will solve the problems.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

They had a big hit with Rusev with his US Championship run, then they yanked the rug out of from under him, split him and Lana up, and put Rusev in the League of Nations. Then Rusev got himself over again and WWE yanked the rug out again.

Braun Strowman was the hottest thing in wrestling during his “I’m not finished with you!” feud with Roman, then WWE yanked the rug out from under him and completely nerfed him for a quick Shield reunion.

I don’t know how fresh new talent is going to solve that.

[drave]

Supreme and Tom with the hard-hitting facts and historical info to back it up.


Still sad for Shinsuke and what he is today. Gonna go watch old NXT to feel better.

[drave]

One may say "vintage" NXT even

[screech]

It may not be for everyone, but I'm enjoying the shit outta Nakamura with Rick Boogs shredding guitar behind him.

[erickman]

If they want to push the big scary looking guys that’s fine, but I’ve not seen much evidence they know how to do that.

Lashley - had to leave the company and rebuild his image, came back and got put in two all time shitty feuds with Sami and Rusev
Drew - had to leave the company and rebuild his image
Sheamus - has had his ups and downs, the one time they pushed him as top guy they made him a bland smiling babyface who said Fella a lot
Priest - treading water feuding with Miz and Morrison
Viking Raiders - the Viking Experience
Keith Lee - ugh
Mace and T-Bar - LOL
Omos - extremely limited, just kinda stands there
Titus - theyve tried but nothing has worked, basically a big lovable dork who does charity work
Big E - seemed happy being part of an all time great faction, we’ll see how this one plays out
Corbin - made the most unwatchable character in wrestling and used as the scapegoat for bad ratings
Azeez - just kinda stands there
Roman - seems like they finally got it right but man did it take a long time to get there

And that’s just guys currently active on the main roster. Not a lot of home runs there. But I’m sure bringing in a bunch of brand new big guys with no experience will solve the problems.

i can almost see big cass come back to wwe, impact rebuilt him like they did lashley and drew. wwe needs to have a deal with impact to build wwe stars.

[Jordan]

i can almost see big cass come back to wwe, impact rebuilt him like they did lashley and drew. wwe needs to have a deal with impact to build wwe stars.

Yeah they probably should bring him back. You shouldn't be that big and ripped and talented and not work for WWE. He'd also be awesome as a monster in NJPW.

[#1-norm-fan]

Has Cass gotten better on the indies or something? I remember him being really awkward and boring in the ring. Doesn’t seem like the New Japan type

[erickman]

Has Cass gotten better on the indies or something? I remember him being really awkward and boring in the ring. Doesn’t seem like the New Japan type

you need to watch impact they know how to book him

[Jordan]

Has Cass gotten better on the indies or something? I remember him being really awkward and boring in the ring. Doesn’t seem like the New Japan type

Bad Luck Fale and Chase Owens are a New Japan type, by that truth ANYBODY can work in NJPW.

[weather vane]

Love Chase. My boy.

[Jordan]

Love Chase. My boy.

Good for you. I'm not saying he isn't worthy of love, just that he's rather unspectacular in multiple ways. So if a guy like Chase or Fale can become "New Japan" guys, there is no argument that anyone that has worked for WWE, especially that went through the FCW or Performance Center development can't adapt to become "New Japan guys". I mean really what does it take? Wrestle harder? More germans, more lariats trade strikes and chops and yell like an anime character? It's not that much different.

[weather vane]

Take it easy.

[#1-norm-fan]

Bad Luck Fale and Chase Owens are a New Japan type, by that truth ANYBODY can work in NJPW.

I saw Bad Luck Fale in a couple of those ridiculous 10 man tags they like to do and thought he seemed to fit the role well.

Cass has the look but seems to move around like a fragile old man.

[Jordan]

Take it easy.

https://media.giphy.com/media/dzawu0tOz0CSkVK1EB/giphy.gif

[Emperor Smeat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The mood at the PC today ahead of tonight’s NXT show…. hooooooo boy. Tensions running high to say the least.</p>&mdash; WrestleVotes (@WrestleVotes) <a href="https://twitter.com/WrestleVotes/status/1425147733694984196?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Only going to get much worse based on the recent rumors of another big wave of cuts arriving soon.

Vince's recent visit to the Performance Center with a bunch of high level WWE officials really does feel like it was a Trojan Horse moment for NXT and the scouting wasn't for main roster call-ups but instead to personally see who should get cut and who gets to stay for the time being.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Gargano and Ciampa are gone aren’t they

[slik]

I saw on twitter people were saying there were more 'comedy' segments on NXT tonight and that they brought up Ilja Dragonuv who is facing Walter for the NXT UK Title but had him lose clean in his regular NXT debut.

[Triple A]

Indi Hartwell and Dexter Lumis storyline seems like the most interesting thing in NXT by far (other than Cameron Grimes maybe) even though lots of people seem to hate it

[Emperor Smeat]

I saw on twitter people were saying there were more 'comedy' segments on NXT tonight and that they brought up Ilja Dragonuv who is facing Walter for the NXT UK Title but had him lose clean in his regular NXT debut.

They did a main roster style booked finish but worse since the shenanigans with WALTER didn't really play a decisive role in the actual finish.

WALTER came out for the heel music distraction but instead of ending the match right there with Dunne getting a cheap sneaky win, they had them wrestle a bit longer making you think Ilja was going to over come the odds. Instead Dunne just hits him with his finisher clean moments later for the win anyways. Then they did main roster style 50-50 booking with having Ilja beat up WALTER so he could stand tall to end the show.

[xrodmuc316]

Indi Hartwell and Dexter Lumis storyline seems like the most interesting thing in NXT by far (other than Cameron Grimes maybe) even though lots of people seem to hate it

This stuff is great. Apparently Austin Theory ran away and is living somewhere "Half Naked in the Wilderness" :rofl:

4N13qnjOkcU

[Tom Guycott]

Supreme and Tom with the hard-hitting facts and historical info to back it up.


Still sad for Shinsuke and what he is today. Gonna go watch old NXT to feel better.

I am too, but from the rumormill, he doesn't really give a shit. He's happy to be there and makes enough money to literally fuck off to go surfing when he's not throwing himself at the ground for a living It's nice that he's happy, but THE WORLD could have gotten more in a legit international star. I was super amazed at how crowds took to him to the point where he was not only not getting "WHAT?" chants when he would speak, the crowd would shut the fuck up in a similar way to when Mark Henry used to do his babyface crowd volume thing until he was done talking, then pop for pretty much anything he said.

(note: this was born partially out of where I was going to go eariler, but as I stated, I can't exactly follow the same stream of conciousness ) Circling back to a thing I know I've mentioned before: I kinda feel bad for, of all people, Triple H. I legit think his plan was to actually *address* most of WWE's problems with lack of star power with call ups and pushes up the entire card while he was fucking around with XFL 2.0. By the time he would've looked, he might not have liked the roster at first glance, but with all the fresh faces and moving merch, he'd have been a fool to just change gears with what was supposed to be working.

Then, Vince panic scrapped that when the pandemic shutdowns hit full swing, and all his attention was back on his baby. And that led to a faster transition of NXT becoming more like the main roster instead of the main roster being like the hot NXT of old. All the far reaching plans like UE or Walter fell away (unaided by shitheads like Patrick Clark), and now the product goes right back into the cesspool of what has always been plaguing it.

[Tom Guycott]

I would honestly like to see some the cut talent filter to NWA. Make that shit a viable location that people would seek out instead of perpetually getting their thunder stolen by AEW.

[Jordan]

I would honestly like to see some the cut talent filter to NWA. Make that shit a viable location that people would seek out instead of perpetually getting their thunder stolen by AEW.

Same. Thus far everyone has gone to work for AEW or Impact but there is also ROH which I think is a better financial option than NWA, but seem to be hiring new talent even less. I hope both ROH and NWA get some new talent coming in. I don't think NWA is destined for success at this point but we shall see. I guess you can put MLW on that list too even though I think that they are a big disappointment.

[Noid]

This is a result of all the talent hoarding that went on a few years ago. I have no doubt that the released wrestlers fill find work and use it as an opportunity to rebuild themselves. Even those who weren't fortunate enough to get the WWE rub via active participation.

[Sepholio]

I'd like to see more of the talent leave and go to to NWA or MLW as well but I fear it isn't going to be the trend. There are 2 billionaires in town now. There's also still NJPW as a premier destination. Between those 3 I feel like the smaller companies will be left begging for scraps.

[slik]

I'm amazed NWA and MLW are still operational. Same for ROH. Have no clue how any of the three have enough funds to stay in biz.

Impact I'm not surprised by because all of wrestling could collapse in North America and Impact would still find a way to survive, it's like the cockroach of the rasslin world.

[Emperor Smeat]

ROH pretty much has a steady stream of funds flowing into the company since Sinclair sees them as being cheap weekly content for their television networks. Even when they took a break because of the pandemic, they kept getting money from Sinclair so they could continue paying their talent and staff without having to lay off anyone.

MLW managed to get financial stronger during the pandemic because they kept signing as many deals as possible to the point they can now drop older deals for better paying ones.

No clue on NWA since they've pretty much been hanging on a thread during this pandemic based on the stories about them. If it wasn't for their recent deal with FITE, they probably still would be shut down because of the pandemic.

[Noid]

Reading up on Court Bauer. Doesn't paint a good picture.

[Tom Guycott]

This is a result of all the talent hoarding that went on <s> a few years ago</s> since about 2004 onward. I have no doubt that the released wrestlers fill find work and use it as an opportunity to rebuild themselves. Even those who weren't fortunate enough to get the WWE rub via active participation.

Went and fixed that for you. Granted, you were specifically talking about trying to keep people under contract to prevent them filtering to AEW, but WWE had been signing people to developmental contracts willy nilly for nearly two decades now if they had any kind of buzz around them whatsoever. The numbers have increased over time, and that's just since they started the developmental system. Remember: near the tail end of WCW, (before the buyout and failed invasion angle) when they started circling the drain, WWE was signing guys from there because seemingly because they could to rub it in. There was no fucking way they were going to seriously push Haku- but they deprived the other guys of Meng, and that was good enough to take a victory lap with.

[Tom Guycott]

I'd like to see more of the talent leave and go to to NWA or MLW as well but I fear it isn't going to be the trend. There are 2 billionaires in town now. There's also still NJPW as a premier destination. Between those 3 I feel like the smaller companies will be left begging for scraps.

Even like to see the deal with NJPW's attempted US expansion start to sprout some wings with the sheer amount of talent dumped onto the open market.

It's likely not going to work out that way, but this could really bite WWE in the ass if things shake out the "right" way. And for what? To blow everything up and pretty much start over because they forgot how this works? There's only so much that can happen and they can still coast by on their brand recognition.