Jumping Ship Thread

[Jordan]

Is it just me or is it Jumping Ship Season in American pro rasslin? Not only has WWE released a massive amount of talent over the past few years but AEW is coming to the end of the terms on initial contacts which were reported to mostly be 2-3 years. I thought to make a thread specific to tracking the reports of released wrestlers or contract expirations.

AEW has picked up Christian, Paul Wight, Mark Henry, Malakai Black, Andrade El Idolo, Ruby Soho, Bryan Danielson and Adam Cole.

We've all heard the story that Meltzer and other have reported Windham Rotunda is "as good as All Elite", but also that Impact is set to make a bid for him as well. Perhaps AEW will win out on that but there is also Adam Scherr who has also been reported to have major interest from Impact.

Buddy Matthews also strongly linked to Impact Wrestling according to recent reports and hints from Impact's Scott D'more.

Another interesting report to note on this is that WWE has more or less "declared" that they aren't interested in signing with indy stars going forward and instead are in CAW mode. So can we expect WWE to sign certain AEW talents who may be interested in a bidding war, or those who are not resigned by AEW?

Lastly and I think the pandemic is to blame for this but other moderately viable contract offers for free talent from companies like NJPW/NJPW of America, ROH, NWA and MLW seem to be frozen for the time being, with few minor exceptions. You have to imagine it would be difficult for talents like AOP for example to take a deal with MLW for $600 a taping and expect to be exclusive when they were probably making over 100k or more in WWE for doing absolutely nothing the majority of their time there.

[Jordan]

Kevin Owens -

The reports say he signed a 5 year deal in 2018 with an opt out clause in the 3rd year. I assume that goes for talent and company. Owens or Steen, recently tweeted out the coordinates to Mount Rushmore which was the name of a group he was apart of with Adam Cole and The Young Bucks, and then deleted the tweet afterwards. He then changed his Twitter location to "almost there".

We've seen talents use Twitter as a way to initiate a bidding war with WWE in the past like Randy Orton. But Owens is one to watch out for because the situation is interesting on many levels. Owens obviously is close with a lot of the AEW roster and would fit in there perfectly. On the flipside he is older and may want the security of a WWE contract, plus I know his kids are WWE fanatics and I think that would have some influence on the way things go. Also he is older and has neve been the WWE prototype and with recent cuts I could see WWE themselves choosing to take the opt out clause.

Personally when AEW began I was really hoping that Owens would've been apart of it. I remember being disappointed that he renewed with WWE, it was right at that point where AEW was becoming a real thing but wasn't yet a real thing. Danielson and Mysterio also resigned with WWE at that time if I'm not mistaken.

Obviously with every potential WWE to AEW jump we are going to talk about AEW bloating their roster but at the same time when certain talents become available it's really hard to imagine not taking advantage.

[James Steele]

All they got to do is cut the jobbers from the YouTube shows to thin out their roster.

[Fignuts]

All they got to do is cut the jobbers from the YouTube shows to thin out their roster.

The problem is those jobbers are their friends, and I don't think anyone in aew has the balls to fire their friends.

[James Steele]

The problem is those jobbers are their friends, and I don't think anyone in aew has the balls to fire their friends.

Tony Khan (or his Daddy) will eventually have to pull the trigger.

[Evil Vito]

Not really sure I understand the thought process that they need to cut *insert YouTube show regular here*

If they are taking up time on Dynamite or Rampage then yes, I'd agree. But if they are just there to work YouTube shows exclusively it really doesn't matter.

[James Steele]

Well, if they keep signing names...the good midcarders will get bumped to the YouTube shows and the jobbers can fuck off to mudshows. Unless they find a good rotation to keep all the guys on TV that need to be on TV.

[Evil Vito]

I think the ability to rotate is gonna be valuable to them going forward. WWE has no offseason and only the top guys seem to be able to negotiate time off.

AEW can send someone off for a couple months like with Hangman and have plenty enough to cover the loss.

Helps the wrestlers not only for their overall wellness but also creatively you aren’t trying to shoehorn too many people onto the show just to keep up appearances.

[Evil Vito]

Don’t really want the good midcarders going to the YouTube shows because there is very few scenarios where I’ll ever watch them.

Dynamite and Rampage are enough for my weekly fix.

[James Steele]

That's the dilemma you run into. The Attitude Era had multiple stars/storylines all over the show, but all the matches were a couple of minutes long and not very good. Finding that balance between quality matches, squash matches, and promos/etc is hard to do. Especially when trying to build a few new stars will capitalizing on the big hot names they've recently signed. Hopefully they find a good balance and put on a great product every week.

[erickman]

Tony Khan (or his Daddy) will eventually have to pull the trigger.

that's when they hire jim cornett to fire people.

[Jordan]

All they got to do is cut the jobbers from the YouTube shows to thin out their roster.

https://www.allelitewrestling.com/aew-roster

I believe that they are only listing wrestlers who they have some sort of exclusive deal with. I often wonder who AEW should not renew a deal with.

There are a lot of young talent from the Nightmare Factory that while I can see as useful enhancement talent from bottom level to midcard. They generally have no main event potential.

Either way the guys on the bottom of AEW are probably making a livable income but I'm sure they aren't making hundreds of thousands.

I think the ability to rotate is gonna be valuable to them going forward. WWE has no offseason and only the top guys seem to be able to negotiate time off.

AEW can send someone off for a couple months like with Hangman and have plenty enough to cover the loss.

Helps the wrestlers not only for their overall wellness but also creatively you aren’t trying to shoehorn too many people onto the show just to keep up appearances.

I agree and that is totally what Tony is doing. The beauty of it now is that in theory we shouldn't have anymore bust episodes of Dynamite because they can place at least one marquee match on each Dynamite.

[Blonde Moment]

if they send the "big guns" out to Japan, Impact. NWA. ROH or even GCW the little guys will be fine. if things go in the direction I pray they are we just might have real territories again that cooperate which is good for business and fans alike

[#1-norm-fan]

that's when they hire jim cornett to fire people.

That’s the one AEW job I think Cornette would take. Being paid to personally fire Joey Janela.

[Jordan]

if they send the "big guns" out to Japan, Impact. NWA. ROH or even GCW the little guys will be fine. if things go in the direction I pray they are we just might have real territories again that cooperate which is good for business and fans alike

I read that Tony lent out his wrestlers to NWA and paid for them himself. That is valiant and I understand his point of view to a degree, but you can't be doing that forever.

[erickman]

yeah i wish they would send them to other places to get them over, impact is a good place for that.

[xrodmuc316]

The problem is those jobbers are their friends, and I don't think anyone in aew has the balls to fire their friends.

Tony Khan doesnt fire anybody unless they do something real bad like Jimmy Havoc.

[slik]

KO would be a good fit in AEW

[slik]

As would Xavier Woods

[Lock Jaw]

______ has crossed the line!!!!

[Blonde Moment]

Nia Jax is All Elite

[XL]

yeah i wish they would send them to other places to get them over, impact is a good place for that.

In what way would sending someone to Impact help get them over?

[slik]

Nia Jax is All Elite

Send her back lol

[GD]

I would love to see a top brass WWE superstar in AEW. Someone on the level of Reigns, McIntyre or even Rollins.

[Blonde Moment]

In what way would sending someone to Impact help get them over?

It might not get them over but it might give them a rest from AEW exposure and a chance to learn and evolve some in a new environment.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I would love to see a top brass WWE superstar in AEW. Someone on the level of Reigns, McIntyre or even Rollins.

Of those 3, I’d rank McIntyre as the most likely. But even then, he’s been treated well since returning and is prominently featured. Non chance for Reigns and a slightly better chance for Rollins but I can’t see much.

Honestly, Danielson might end up being the biggest name that ends up jumping.

[ClockShot]

I would love to see a top brass WWE superstar in AEW. Someone on the level of Reigns, McIntyre or even Rollins.

Charlotte would be the next name with the Andrade connection.

However, as some have said, Vince might send the Brinks truck to her house to prevent that.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

It might not get them over but it might give them a rest from AEW exposure and a chance to learn and evolve some in a new environment.

What I’d like to see them do is contract some guys out to short term deals and cycle them in and out of storylines. Let’s use Braun as an example. Maybe they pick him up on a 6 month deal, where he works a predetermined amount of dates and the 2-3 PPVs in that time frame. You build him up going over some of the better guys, build to a big program with whoever you want to elevate, and use Braun’s last ppv commitment to put over said talent. Brain gets months of exposure, an elevated profile, and can move on to other promotions while the guy you used Braun to elevate has some momentum and a big win under their belt to move into their next program with.

Idk how much talent would be up for these kinds of deals but I’m sure if the money and schedule is right they can pull it off with some of the free agents floating around.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

What I’d like to see them do is contract some guys out to short term deals and cycle them in and out of storylines. Let’s use Braun as an example. Maybe they pick him up on a 6 month deal, where he works a predetermined amount of dates and the 2-3 PPVs in that time frame. You build him up going over some of the better guys, build to a big program with whoever you want to elevate, and use Braun’s last ppv commitment to put over said talent. Brain gets months of exposure, an elevated profile, and can move on to other promotions while the guy you used Braun to elevate has some momentum and a big win under their belt to move into their next program with.

Idk how much talent would be up for these kinds of deals but I’m sure if the money and schedule is right they can pull it off with some of the free agents floating around.

Right now, I do think AEW has more than enough talent to keep matches and storylines fresh. They already do a good job using their 3 hours of TV to get a ton of guys on the show whether it’s vida matches, promos or vignettes and so far I think that’s working just fine and their roster doesn’t need any new signings.

[Jordan]

I would love to see a top brass WWE superstar in AEW. Someone on the level of Reigns, McIntyre or even Rollins.

I think Bryan Danielson is probably "bigger" than anyone on that list aside from Reigns no?

It might not get them over but it might give them a rest from AEW exposure and a chance to learn and evolve some in a new environment.

If AEW was able to "send out" talent to other promotions for a period of time then those promotions need to be able to pay the AEW talent the same rate they were contracted to AEW for. I don't think that's possible with Impact or NWA at this time. Perhaps AAA but I wouldn't be too surprised to learn AEW was paying Omega's waged for his work in AAA.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I could also see the AEW talent making their usual guarantee and the promotions they’re being loaned to pay whatever their usual offer is too talent on an appearance based deal. It may not be much compared to what AEW is playing but if they’re getting that plus extra to go elsewhere I think that’s fine.

Although, Tony mentioned in his media scrum about him being the one paying for the talent to go to other promotions in hopes it’ll pay off for AEW later on down the road.

[rez]

I would love to see a top brass WWE superstar in AEW. Someone on the level of Reigns, McIntyre or even Rollins.

Pass

[xrodmuc316]

I think Bryan Danielson is probably "bigger" than anyone on that list aside from Reigns no?


I remember when Christian debuted, and while nobody would ever be unhappy for Christian, the level of hype was so much it would have had to be one of those top top stars.

The consensus then was it had to be Punk, Lesnar, or Cena. Nobody brought up Roman or Bryan at that time because they were still in WWE.

That said, they already have Punk, so to get somebody bigger than Bryan would literally be limited to Roman, Lesnar, or Cena.

Anybody else coming in will still be able to make a big impact, but there really isn't a long list of guys I would think of as bigger stars/gets for AEW than Bryan.

[Triple A]

Sami Zayn apparently signed a three year contract with WWE in summer of 2018, so it would technically be up this year...

But he has missed a lot of time with injuries and during the pandemic so they may have added time to his deal... or he may have had it "restructured" also

Would love to see him in AEW... Love him

[Evil Vito]

Danielson saying nothing but positive things about WWE (loved working there, had a great relationship with Vince, they made him a really generous offer etc)...but that he still wanted to come to AEW to work with the talent and perform in front of this fanbase.

We know a lot of the WWE guys who come to AEW are disgruntled to a degree, so to have someone coming in saying nothing but good things but still wanting to make the jump...best endorsement they've had yet.

[#1-norm-fan]

Is Total Bellas still a thing?

[drave]

who?

[Evil Vito]

Is Total Bellas still a thing?

Think it finally went off the air. Supposedly a big reason Bryan re-signed with WWE the last time was to not mess up the show for his wife.

[xrodmuc316]

It cant be true that Vince McMahon's big pitch to Adam Cole on the main roster was to be Keith Lee's manager, right??? :wtf:

[Triple A]

Wonder what they would have changed his name to also...

[Lock Jaw]

If AEW could get the Bellas it would be their biggest coup to date!

[Jordan]

Add Sami Zayn to the rumor mill. His contact may be expiring in November. Could easily see El Genrico in AEW along with Kevin Steen. It really makes almost too much sense.

[Lock Jaw]

If they get Sami Zayn and let him go back to the El Generico gimmick they are dumb

[ron the dial]

i agree 100%. he's evolved well past that gimmick and as much as i loved it i never want to see it in earnest ever again.

[Lock Jaw]

That being said, knowing AEW, if he said he wanted to do it they would 100% let him instead of telling him it is a bad idea

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW should have gone after the names they’re getting right from the start. They’re finally ending up where they should have been two years ago. Some may say “better late than never,” but I’m not really so sure.

WWE is its own worst enemy. AEW itself is no threat. But because of that, WWE have refused to change their practices to even sell their existence. This is chasing off talent, but the problem is the other circus is going to piss away any momentum they can bring in with them.

In theory, with Punk, Danielson and Cole on the show, there would be less room for Matt Hardy, Joey Janela and Orange Cassidy. But the problem is, AEW thinks that is all good shit. Their quality compass is way off, so you’re going to get the inevitable shitting of the bed that caps their audience.

So we’re left with a scenario where a lot of potentially valuable talent leave the auspices of Vince, but can’t make an impact, so WWE never changes and AEW hovers around 1 million viewers for eternity.

AEW, as a concept, had the potential to destroy WWE and really change wrestling. They’ve given dissatisfied talent another place to work, but the net damage to wrestling is going to be greater as both major companies slowly wring out interest.

[slik]

Feel like I never hear about MLW, ROH or New Japan these days

NWA and Impact seem to get more attention than them

[slik]

Sami should go to NWA and become their heavyweight champ

[Mr. Nerfect]

I never hear about wrestling at all. Occasionally I’ll hear someone reference something from the past, but there is zero interest in modern products.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sami Zayn should just go to the place that is going to make him happiest. Whether that’s for money, personal satisfaction or a balance. There is no art to this anymore. Wherever he goes, he’s just going to be a guy taking meaningless bumps for the enjoyment of <2 million white nerds.

[Jordan]

No he should go to AEW.

[Evil Vito]

If they get Sami Zayn and let him go back to the El Generico gimmick they are dumb

I don’t think he’d want to go to that. He’s evolved way past a caricature of a luchadore.

Well plus having an Arab Canadian portraying a Mexican is a bit problematic.

[Emperor Smeat]

Sami should go to NWA and become their heavyweight champ

That would solve their major problem of not having a big beloved babyface star to build their company around.

Having Nick Aldis as the top heel to start off was a good decision but he's also not someone you'd actually revolve the whole company around for as long as they did with his title reign. Their biggest problem was barely building up anyone to his level that you could legit see being their future long term top babyface star for the company, especially on the younger side.

Murdoch's recent title win was a great "feel good" moment but I wouldn't be surprised if his reign ends up being more like a stop gap till whenever Aldis gets the belt back.

I wouldn't be surprised if that issue is why Corgan has yet to secure an actual tv deal for the company since he doesn't really have that big marketable babyface star to convince tv networks to buy into them.

[xrodmuc316]

I would have to think Sami ends up where Kevin goes.

[RP]

I hope Becky goes to AEW and sleeps with Powerhouse Hobbs behind Seth Rollins back.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I hope AEW goes in the trash where it belongs.

[Destor]

well thats not constructive

[Noid]

AEW should have gone after the names they’re getting right from the start. They’re finally ending up where they should have been two years ago. Some may say “better late than never,” but I’m not really so sure.

WWE is its own worst enemy. AEW itself is no threat. But because of that, WWE have refused to change their practices to even sell their existence. This is chasing off talent, but the problem is the other circus is going to piss away any momentum they can bring in with them.

In theory, with Punk, Danielson and Cole on the show, there would be less room for Matt Hardy, Joey Janela and Orange Cassidy. But the problem is, AEW thinks that is all good shit. Their quality compass is way off, so you’re going to get the inevitable shitting of the bed that caps their audience.

So we’re left with a scenario where a lot of potentially valuable talent leave the auspices of Vince, but can’t make an impact, so WWE never changes and AEW hovers around 1 million viewers for eternity.

AEW, as a concept, had the potential to destroy WWE and really change wrestling. They’ve given dissatisfied talent another place to work, but the net damage to wrestling is going to be greater as both major companies slowly wring out interest.

It sucks that AEW didn't pan out exactly how I wanted. As the late great Nikki Bella once said, "I wish AEW died in the womb."

[Blonde Moment]

Most people do not want the Wwe to be destroyed. They want real honest change. And while Aew's presentation is all over the place I feel their desire to work with other promotions is exactly what the industry needs

[Destor]

i dunno if i agree with that i think most people would say what you said but i think the average person likes watching anything successful fail. celebrities or companies its all the same. people love watching success crumble.

[Destor]

schadenfreude is a powerful emotion

[Jordan]

I would love to see WWE fail to a point where they had no choice but to put out a great product like they did in 97.

[Tom Guycott]

I think the ability to rotate is gonna be valuable to them going forward. WWE has no offseason and only the top guys seem to be able to negotiate time off.

AEW can send someone off for a couple months like with Hangman and have plenty enough to cover the loss.

Helps the wrestlers not only for their overall wellness but also creatively you aren’t trying to shoehorn too many people onto the show just to keep up appearances.

Also, they could viably have people "fuck off for awhile" with all this Forbidden Door business (much like "pipebomb", it kinda morphed into specifically meaning dealing with New Japan instead of intermingling of other ACTUALLY separate promotions period instead of the pretend separate promotions WWE set up). Some of those jobbers might find fortune (get over/land a spot for themselves) in a NWA or MLW or elsewhere with zero hard feelings in a way that ROH and TNA used to trade talent before TNA shut that door with the "exclusive talent" stuff, and then sending that one memo about no longer booking their guys.

It would be nice if some of this love got spread around instead of everyone automatically gravitating towards AEW (or Impact seemingly by proxy). Seems a good time to give other promotions some jump start attention since WWE is content to pull their own pants down and bend themselves over.

[Tom Guycott]

AEW should have gone after the names they’re getting right from the start. They’re finally ending up where they should have been two years ago. Some may say “better late than never,” but I’m not really so sure.

If you recall, though, that just so happened to be when WWE didn't do their annual post Wrestlemania housecleaning and started extending people's contracts/giving them raises and other shit to stop their grumbling (remember how there were rumors of Sasha Banks and Bayley potentially going away, then suddenly they are suddenly and inexplicably re-paired and become the first ever female tag champs?). Part of the plan had to be to take disgruntled talent fresh from Stamford. Even though they hired their buddies, some of those folks were obviously stop-gaps for the mass exodus that never came.

WWE is its own worst enemy. AEW itself is no threat. But because of that, WWE have refused to change their practices to even sell their existence. This is chasing off talent, but the problem is the other circus is going to piss away any momentum they can bring in with them.

In theory, with Punk, Danielson and Cole on the show, there would be less room for Matt Hardy, Joey Janela and Orange Cassidy. But the problem is, AEW thinks that is all good shit. Their quality compass is way off, so you’re going to get the inevitable shitting of the bed that caps their audience.

So we’re left with a scenario where a lot of potentially valuable talent leave the auspices of Vince, but can’t make an impact, so WWE never changes and AEW hovers around 1 million viewers for eternity.

Though true that AEW itself is no threat, they've kinda backed into a decent concept with their open border policy of fully sanctioning their guys to appear elsewhere, and vice versa. Initially, the whole thing with Moxley (pre-pandemic, of course) hinged upon him flying back and forth between the US and Japan and pretending those two universes don't exist to the other place. While a unique plan, it's actually even better when he was recognized as the NJPW US champion, or having everyone's favorite murder grandpa show up in AEW. While true it does nothing (and in a way is actually detrimental) for AEW, it actually does good for North American wrestling as a whole.

That, coupled with WWE running full steam with the idea that "talent" is an interchangeable commodity like indistinguishable cogs in a machine, has shifted the power dynamic immensely.

It's not that AEW is outright "winning", but they are attracting attention, being exciting and more fun to watch than WWE, and at the exact same time, WWE is doubling down on what is fucking them up to begin with.

It is basically like an incompotent, ragtag militia that accidentially won a short skirmish or two, versus a war machine nation that could EASILY crush them in an actual war, but decided to up and withdraw their troops and scale down their army size and defensive capabilities for seemingly zero reason... and let some commanders just defect to potentially make the opposition a better army.

AEW, as a concept, had the potential to destroy WWE and really change wrestling. They’ve given dissatisfied talent another place to work, but the net damage to wrestling is going to be greater as both major companies slowly wring out interest.

I think "destroy WWE" is a bridge too far. It had the potential to change them for the better, for sure.

This is where I go back to what I said elsewhere about feeling sorry for HHH in a way. I think the idea was that he was going to be basically running WWE now, since Vinice would have more time devoted to XFL 2.0. When he got his eyes back on the product, there would be main roster talent like UE, and Martinez (don't know why I'm blanking on his "generated name" right now) and Keith Lee and featuring a lot of the talent that ended up being mad at him for being "lied to", because HE planned on pushing them in Vince's absense. And then, if Vince got mad, he'd see matches or merch sales and ratings and, possibly begrudingly, be fine with it. One of those "forgiveness over permission" things. Then Vince abruptly shuttered his football plan and fucked up the progression of development.

I do agree that they have the potential to "wring out interest" as you put it; AEW from trying to do too much at once, and WWE by trying harder and harder be a wrestling promotion that isn't wrestling at all. And not in the Max Landis way.

[Tom Guycott]

schadenfreude is a powerful emotion

🎵 Fuck you, lady, that's what stairs are for! 🎵

[Noid]

I would like to see Dough Basham defecate to AEW.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh man, imagine if they got Steen, Generico and Gargano. You know what would change? Nothing.

[Noid]

What if you add Kung Funaki to the mix? These filthy yanks would go bonkers.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Funaki is pretty entrenched in WWE. If they got him, it would be a steal though. He’d be more recognisable than any of the New Japan guys, honestly. His work is probably less silly too, but I don’t even know if the guy can still go.

[Noid]

I'm curious to know more about your wrestling taste. How would you book the perfect wrestling show? It doesn't have to be a promotion or competition to the big players.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sensibly. Have things make sense and exist in some sort of reality where they are actually possible. Psychology is important. Selling. A show should build. Organic promos and I’d encourage talent to call it in the ring. It always makes matches feel more organic, which is more important than whether or not the “movez” are cool.

[Noid]

Sensibly. Have things make sense and exist in some sort of reality where they are actually possible. Psychology is important. Selling. A show should build. Organic promos and I’d encourage talent to call it in the ring. It always makes matches feel more organic, which is more important than whether or not the “movez” are cool.

Selling is certainly an art form that needs to be revived. If it doesn't add to the story you're telling in the ring, there's no need to get in all the flashy moves you have in your repertoire.

Which was the last mainstream match that you enjoyed? Besides the UK title match.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I actually really enjoyed The Creed Brothers squashing those guys on NXT just this week. I always like Cesaro’s matches, Nakamura’s and Chad Gable’s. I need to go back and watch Cesaro and Gable from a few weeks ago, because I just saw highlights.

[Noid]

I'm definitely intrigued by the Creed brothers. They seem very promising.

As someone who was solidly behind Gable for years, he's slowly creeping into Dolph Ziggler territory in terms of interest. For all the praise Cesaro deserves for his in-ring capabilities, his character work is subpar. I don't subscribe to Vince's logic that he's foreign because there are international acts who have eclipsed state side performers in terms of mic work.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I want NXT to feature main roster talent sporadically. Alpha Academy vs. The Creed Brothers could be amazing. Put Jason Jordan in the corner of The Creed Brothers for some tension. Or have him turn on Gable & Otis for an actual feud there.

But main roster-wise, while I think Gable & Otis are amazing as a team, I’d like to see Gable take on a bit of a singles role with Otis as his heavy. Maybe on Raw and let Gable win the US Title and be a proud and arrogant US hero.

Damian Priest can either move up or move over to SmackDown.

Cesaro is...mmm. I think you could present him as a top star and his ring skills can carry it. Not THE top star, but he’s kind of like a Chris Benoit that way (awfulness aside). He’s always got value as a tag team performer. He’s like a better Billy Gunn that way. I want to see him vs. WALTER real bad. Put that on Raw? I think that’s a reason to watch the show, which is hard to say these days.

[Noid]

WALTER vs Cesaro would be awesome. I'd also like to see him get into a slap fest with McIntyre. I'm still angry at him for doing WALTER dirty at Survivor Series.

[Mr. Nerfect]

My lazy plan to try and fix Raw (impossible):

* WALTER to Raw. Maybe Ilja Draganov too.

* Cesaro to Raw.

* Alpha Academy to Raw.

* Timothy Thatcher, Pete Dunne, Oney Lorcan, Danny Burch.

Raw basically gets a “technical” division. That NXT UK style, mixed with a couple of big boys like Sheamus and Keith Lee who beat the shit out of each other.

If you did a G1-style tournament and had WALTER, Pete Dunne, Tyler Bate, Chad Gable, Keith Lee and Drew McIntyre on one side. Throw in Jeff Hardy and John Morrison for a bit of variation. The other block is Cesaro, Sheamus, Tim Thatcher, Drew Gulak, Oney Lorcan, Otis, Matt Riddle and Ilya Draganov. That’s quite a few weeks of just solid wrestling action every week. Whatever.

[Jordan]

It would end up a gauntlet instead of a tournament and a one night angle instead of something over weeks of time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It would end up a gauntlet instead of a tournament and a one night angle instead of something over weeks of time.

Oh, of course. But if you want some ideas as to how to offer something AEW doesn’t and can’t to make a 3 hour Raw somewhere bearable, then that’s a fine little autopilot thing you can do.

[Jordan]

I do agree with you on that group of guys. Under the WWE/NXT umbrella they have a great group of hard nose shooter types that will make for something that could be really good if they are managed correctly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the best way might be in isolation, so Vince doesn’t get any crazy ideas about them. But it’s an obvious thing that can set them apart whilst appealing to the hardcore fan. I think there is casual appeal in wrestlers actually wrestling when they can do the style well.

[Noid]

My lazy plan to try and fix Raw (impossible):

* WALTER to Raw. Maybe Ilja Draganov too.

* Cesaro to Raw.

* Alpha Academy to Raw.

* Timothy Thatcher, Pete Dunne, Oney Lorcan, Danny Burch.

Raw basically gets a “technical” division. That NXT UK style, mixed with a couple of big boys like Sheamus and Keith Lee who beat the shit out of each other.

If you did a G1-style tournament and had WALTER, Pete Dunne, Tyler Bate, Chad Gable, Keith Lee and Drew McIntyre on one side. Throw in Jeff Hardy and John Morrison for a bit of variation. The other block is Cesaro, Sheamus, Tim Thatcher, Drew Gulak, Oney Lorcan, Otis, Matt Riddle and Ilya Draganov. That’s quite a few weeks of just solid wrestling action every week. Whatever.

I would love to watch a roster full of these men. Maybe revive the original CWC style of cruiserweight wrestling while you're at it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I said it at the time — the CWC should have been an annual thing with year-to-year stories. The winner gets an IC or US Title shot. Yeah, you’d get TJ Perkins former IC Champ, and fuck that guy, but the next year could have been Cedric Alexander. The next year? Johnny Gargano.

Something to look forward to every year with stakes that isn’t this floating turd of an alleged division.

[Noid]

I remember when Neville (PAC) would you use a superplex as a finisher during his run as cruiserweight champion before transitioning to the Rings of Saturn.

[Jordan]

If you were Tony Kahn who would you let go when contracts are up or just straight up cut ties with? I think there are several talents and a few big money ones that need to be shown the exit.

Here is my list...

Aaron Solo - Can't see any benefit to him, even as far as jobbers go he's nothing special

Alan Angles - He's good in the ring but with the Dark Order it's nothing memorable for him and I just don't see any point unless he starts being a featured jobber.

TH2 - While I enjoy Angelico especially dancing to the ring, this team has probably hit is peak in AEW and at this time are floundering. Jack Evans isn't really good enough for AEW at this time.

Brian Cage - I don't really see Cage rising further than the spot he had when he debuted in AEW. He has zero character and personality and that is not going to change. He's best off elsewhere.

Chavo Guerrero Jr. - Unless he's an agent that they really need I can't see any reason to keep him around. He isn't a character that anyone really cares about and was used poorly in his initial run.

Jake Hager - He's crap in everyway, there are other who could play his role but it's best that The Inner Circle dies off sooner than later. No use for Hager after that, as if there is one for him now.

Joey Janella - Been saying it for over a year, he's got nothing left for AEW. They don't book him well at all. He had some fanfare when AEW started but they didn't use him in a way to capitalize on it. Let him go.

Kip Sabian - Unless he can show something great with his next character then I think he should be let go. He's not that great and has done nothing memorable in AEW other than ruin Miro's initial run.

Luther - Seriously?

Mark Henry - I can't help but get a little angry with how Mark constantly critiques AEW on his radio show in a way that sounds very negative and toxic. He's bringing nothing to AEW because he is completely talentless outside of one specific role. He's responsible for some of the worst matches WWE ever had and it's a fucking joke that he has any reverence to the point of being an agent. He had to be trained for over a decade to get anything decent out of him. He's shit, fuck him.

Matt Hardy - Okay gimmick out the window. Matt's existence in AEW in my opinion when it comes to the contract negotiations should be dependent on if Jeff's WWE deal is up. If they can get a Hardy Boys run then sure, keep Matt. But otherwise, I think let the contract expire and shake hands.

Paul Wight - I can't imagine extending the contact Paul Wight signed at the beginning of the year. He's absolutely done in the ring and isn't that great on commentary, sorry Paul I don't see the point. I'd say arrange the Shaq match on an episode of Rampage and shake hands and walk the other way.

Sonny Kiss - Horrible character and wrestler. I hate this shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If you were Tony Kahn who would you let go when contracts are up or just straight up cut ties with? I think there are several talents and a few big money ones that need to be shown the exit.

Here is my list...

Aaron Solo - Can't see any benefit to him, even as far as jobbers go he's nothing special

Alan Angles - He's good in the ring but with the Dark Order it's nothing memorable for him and I just don't see any point unless he starts being a featured jobber.

TH2 - While I enjoy Angelico especially dancing to the ring, this team has probably hit is peak in AEW and at this time are floundering. Jack Evans isn't really good enough for AEW at this time.

Brian Cage - I don't really see Cage rising further than the spot he had when he debuted in AEW. He has zero character and personality and that is not going to change. He's best off elsewhere.

Chavo Guerrero Jr. - Unless he's an agent that they really need I can't see any reason to keep him around. He isn't a character that anyone really cares about and was used poorly in his initial run.

Jake Hager - He's crap in everyway, there are other who could play his role but it's best that The Inner Circle dies off sooner than later. No use for Hager after that, as if there is one for him now.

Joey Janella - Been saying it for over a year, he's got nothing left for AEW. They don't book him well at all. He had some fanfare when AEW started but they didn't use him in a way to capitalize on it. Let him go.

Kip Sabian - Unless he can show something great with his next character then I think he should be let go. He's not that great and has done nothing memorable in AEW other than ruin Miro's initial run.

Luther - Seriously?

Mark Henry - I can't help but get a little angry with how Mark constantly critiques AEW on his radio show in a way that sounds very negative and toxic. He's bringing nothing to AEW because he is completely talentless outside of one specific role. He's responsible for some of the worst matches WWE ever had and it's a fucking joke that he has any reverence to the point of being an agent. He had to be trained for over a decade to get anything decent out of him. He's shit, fuck him.

Matt Hardy - Okay gimmick out the window. Matt's existence in AEW in my opinion when it comes to the contract negotiations should be dependent on if Jeff's WWE deal is up. If they can get a Hardy Boys run then sure, keep Matt. But otherwise, I think let the contract expire and shake hands.

Paul Wight - I can't imagine extending the contact Paul Wight signed at the beginning of the year. He's absolutely done in the ring and isn't that great on commentary, sorry Paul I don't see the point. I'd say arrange the Shaq match on an episode of Rampage and shake hands and walk the other way.

Sonny Kiss - Horrible character and wrestler. I hate this shit.

Not a bad list. I’d keep Henry and maybe Paul Wight though. Could be good figures in the locker-room if people listened to them. Good public figures too. Henry criticizes them because they do stupid things. He’s like JR like that. Getting rid of them doesn’t get rid of the problems.

I don’t care what anyone says, Orange Cassidy is gone. It’s a geek act and for every person that claps like a trained seal because they have a sadomasochistic relationship with wrestling, at least nine are turned off spending money on the product. He’s fucking awful, he can’t “work when he gets serious.” He signposts everything he is going to do, isn’t entertaining and is completely counterproductive to a show trying to present guys like Punk and Danielson in sincere ways.

Chuck Taylor because he sucks also.

I’m on the fence about Miro. He’s about done to me. I’d maybe try him in a mid-card feud with Cody & wife.

Most of The Dark Order needs to go. I’d assess them one-by-one and see who warrants repackaging.

QT Marshall can go away.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As far as who jumps from WWE to AEW? There seem to indicators that Steen is going. I’m not so sure about Zayn and Gargano though. It may just be wiser to stay in the WWE. It really just depends on what you are after.

But Rampage just got 502k viewers with an advertised CM Punk match. What is Kevin Steen going to do to ramp things up? You go there for creative freedom, accepting that everyone else is going to have it too. Then you disappear into obscurity and hope that the vanity cheques keep coming through.

[GD]

How dare they be creatively fulfilled? I do not approve of it.

[Destor]

cant eat creativity

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Gotta figure Ricochet watching Rey Fenix become a universally loved madman while doing the same thing Ricochet does while being a jobber is probably eating at him a little bit.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

Saw some clip of ricochet trying to cut a promo, interjecting himself into an on going promo between two other guys. Pretty sure it was Ethan Page that clowned him about needing to learn to talk and sweet Jesus was he right.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Gotta figure Ricochet watching Rey Fenix become a universally loved madman while doing the same thing Ricochet does while being a jobber is probably eating at him a little bit.

Hasn’t Ricochet worked a WWE Title match at a Saudi Arabian show? He’s been a main roster performer for years and years on a show watched several times more than an AEW show. His fiancée/wife works for the company too. Between them, even without main event pay, they will likely be clearly $1 million a year.

Maybe he is artistically unfulfilled? That’s allowed. But there are plenty of reasons Ricochet isn’t looking up at a guy like Rey Fenix.

[GD]

How dare they be creatively fulfilled? I do not approve of it.

cant eat creativity

Yes, everyone in AEW is working for scraps.

[Mr. Nerfect]

cant eat creativity

That’s true. And you also want to go to places where the people creating are actually creating art too. It’s amateurish to give everyone the same amount of input when the talent levels are not the same.

[GD]

That’s true. And you also want to go to places where the people creating are actually creating art too. It’s amateurish to give everyone the same amount of input when the talent levels are not the same.

We're gatekeeping creativity now. From your mother's basement no less.

[XL]

It’s amateurish to assume that everyone is getting the same level of input.

[Evil Vito]

If you were Tony Kahn who would you let go when contracts are up or just straight up cut ties with? I think there are several talents and a few big money ones that need to be shown the exit.

Here is my list...

Aaron Solo - Can't see any benefit to him, even as far as jobbers go he's nothing special

Alan Angles - He's good in the ring but with the Dark Order it's nothing memorable for him and I just don't see any point unless he starts being a featured jobber.

TH2 - While I enjoy Angelico especially dancing to the ring, this team has probably hit is peak in AEW and at this time are floundering. Jack Evans isn't really good enough for AEW at this time.

Brian Cage - I don't really see Cage rising further than the spot he had when he debuted in AEW. He has zero character and personality and that is not going to change. He's best off elsewhere.

Chavo Guerrero Jr. - Unless he's an agent that they really need I can't see any reason to keep him around. He isn't a character that anyone really cares about and was used poorly in his initial run.

Jake Hager - He's crap in everyway, there are other who could play his role but it's best that The Inner Circle dies off sooner than later. No use for Hager after that, as if there is one for him now.

Joey Janella - Been saying it for over a year, he's got nothing left for AEW. They don't book him well at all. He had some fanfare when AEW started but they didn't use him in a way to capitalize on it. Let him go.

Kip Sabian - Unless he can show something great with his next character then I think he should be let go. He's not that great and has done nothing memorable in AEW other than ruin Miro's initial run.

Luther - Seriously?

Mark Henry - I can't help but get a little angry with how Mark constantly critiques AEW on his radio show in a way that sounds very negative and toxic. He's bringing nothing to AEW because he is completely talentless outside of one specific role. He's responsible for some of the worst matches WWE ever had and it's a fucking joke that he has any reverence to the point of being an agent. He had to be trained for over a decade to get anything decent out of him. He's shit, fuck him.

Matt Hardy - Okay gimmick out the window. Matt's existence in AEW in my opinion when it comes to the contract negotiations should be dependent on if Jeff's WWE deal is up. If they can get a Hardy Boys run then sure, keep Matt. But otherwise, I think let the contract expire and shake hands.

Paul Wight - I can't imagine extending the contact Paul Wight signed at the beginning of the year. He's absolutely done in the ring and isn't that great on commentary, sorry Paul I don't see the point. I'd say arrange the Shaq match on an episode of Rampage and shake hands and walk the other way.

Sonny Kiss - Horrible character and wrestler. I hate this shit.

The three I'll focus on here are Hager, Hardy, and Cage since they seem the most consequential to AEW television.

Hager, mercifully, seems to be reserved for tag matches for the most part. I did really like the singles stuff he did with Wardlow but I also think the sky's the limit for Wardlow. If Hager ain't wrestling him I don't want him anywhere near singles action.

Hardy I actually really love in his current role of "worst manager of all-time" and I look forward to his clients eventually realizing he's emptied their bank accounts for nothing. Managerial work is a fun spot for him, I'd rather keep his in-ring stuff to a bare minimum.

And Cage, yeah, I'm OK if he goes away. Does some impressive stuff in the ring for a man his size but he's not particularly likable. I assume the only reason Vince hasn't made a bigger push for him is that he'd make a mockery of the Wellness policies.

Other than that I definitely agree that Wight should be done wrestling - I think it was nice to make a goodwill attempt to try to let him end his in-ring career on his own terms but it's clear the injuries are just too much to overcome. I think he has wisdom to impart in a backstage role but that's about it.

Actually a few of the guys you listed work backstage. Aaron Solo is a Nightmare Factory trainer so he's probably got job security though at least he knows his role as a patsy. Luther's only wrestled a handful of times on Dynamite and hasn't been on since February, he's a producer I think.

Basically most of the list are relegated to Elevation/Dark and as long as that's their position going forward I'm indifferent on whether or not Khan chooses to retain any of them.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s amateurish to assume that everyone is getting the same level of input.

Kenny Omega, Chris Jericho, The Bucks and Matt Hardy clearly are. That’s too much in the wrong direction.