AEW Full Gear 2021: Kenny Omega vs Hangman Page for the AEW World Championship

[DaveWadding]

ISHII ON DYNAMITE IS OFFICIAL!!!

There is a God. And his name is Tomohiro Ishii.

[Lock Jaw]

Ok, continuing to watch this now... picking it up with Punk/Kingston....

[Lock Jaw]

Starting to turn around on Eddie Kingston a bit after just hating him.... his gear is still just terrible, though....

[Lock Jaw]

CM Shorts is here! Keeping us on our toes

[Lock Jaw]

Lol CM Punk getting booed

[Lock Jaw]

Oh no at unnecessary blood already so soon into the match....

[Lock Jaw]

Smh at profanity being yelled... plus the amount of middle fingers....

[Lock Jaw]

That match was kinda.... just weird. Did not connect at all... felt like... dunno.... not smart enough to say why

[Lock Jaw]

Probably Punk's worst showing since his return

[Lock Jaw]

Oh yeah, this match now... Dan Lambert time baby

[Lock Jaw]

Santana and Ortiz facepaint continually getting worse.... wish they would knock it off and go back to no paint....

[Lock Jaw]

V distracting by giant mole/growth on the side of Ethan Page's head....

[Lock Jaw]

Smh at the fans chanting a swear.... won't somebody please think of the children....

[Lock Jaw]

Junior Del/Dos Santos almost killing himself with a standing moonsault... but got guts to try I guess

[Lock Jaw]

Nice human centipede submission from Santana/Ortiz on Paige/Scorpio

[Lock Jaw]

I hope Baron con Rachske (sp?) puts the iron claw on someone in this match....

[ron the dial]

baronconraschkes

[Lock Jaw]

Sammy with a Swanton Fall off the ladder... nice

[Lock Jaw]

Nice.... iron claw being applied as I Hope's...

[Lock Jaw]

Did Santana just kill some fans with that dive into the crowd

[Lock Jaw]

Is this like the anniversary of Eddie's death or something.... like the third Eddie tribute tonight by someone....

[Lock Jaw]

That was very chaotic, too much for the cameras/director to handle at times... but overall was fun.... better than the earlier street fight I think..... or falls count anywhere or whatever that was...

[Lock Jaw]

Jay Lethal is here!!! Is he still doing the Macho Man tribute gimmick? Kevin Nash did his work good!!!

[Lock Jaw]

Jay Lethal here to add to the bloated roster... but he is a good hire. Just need to start firing guys to make room.

[Lock Jaw]

Time for the main event that I have like zero hype for! Woooo!

[Lock Jaw]

Smh at the encouraging of a swear word in his catchphrase....

But it was like the only good promo/moment he had in the buildup to this....

[Lock Jaw]

Can't tell what fans are chanting... sounded like "watermelon"

[Lock Jaw]

Match is good so far technically..... but surprised at how little I really care about this match or either of these guys....

[Lock Jaw]

Keep checking the time on this video to see how much is left in the show...

[Lock Jaw]

Biting people's faces seems like a "common move" in AEW.....

[Lock Jaw]

Smh more middle fingers and verbal f bombs....

[Lock Jaw]

Hangman wins. Ok. The right move in this case would have been for Miro to win earlier so he can take the belt off Hangman in his first defense. Then you can actually try to build up Hangman a bit before giving him the belt a second time.

[Lock Jaw]

Dark Order intolerable.

[Lock Jaw]

Not sure what I'd call the match of the night.... maybe Lucha Bros/FTR which wasn't even one of the ones I was actually interested in seeing... kinda forgot about all the matches I watched yesterday....

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know how you could have a wrestling show much better than that. AEW PPV's are blowing away anything in wrestling history as far as event entertainment quality and overall awesomeness.

Just like they say AEW is the home of wrestling and AEW is wrestling.

AEW is killing it up and down the card while honoring legends we all love constantly in a very appreciative manor and creating new wrestling stars for the future.

Who cares about to casual audience, like Punk said, it's dead.

:lol: This is my new favorite gimmick.

[Evil Vito]

Is this like the anniversary of Eddie's death or something.... like the third Eddie tribute tonight by someone....

Yeah the event was November 13th (anniversary of his passing) in the same city he passed in.

[Lock Jaw]

Either way, he seems like the most universally beloved dead wrestler of them all

[Jordan]

:lol: This is my new favorite gimmick.

Oh it's a shoot brother, no gimmick needed.

AEW is producing everything you actually write about on these pages.

They are developing new stars and working with unknown talents, highlighting legendary workers in a useful way while building or rebuilding damage done by WWE. AEW is curating a growing audience while constantly staying true to their core base of fans. We have stories that develop over years and stories that are settled in weeks time, the matches themselves always become the most important aspect of the stories. We have championships treated with respect and we have great tv matches every single week that build to even better matches the next.

It's just perfect the way it's going. AEW doesn't have to out draw WWE in any way to be a thriving company. AEW has great ticket sales weekly, big merch buisness and a great rights deal along with a strong PPV presence.

You wouldn't compare NJPW to WWE financially and say "oh well WWE makes a ton more money so they win". It doesn't matter because for years NJPW was just the best product and presentation in wrestling. They like AEW are just popping out great shows and making a good amount of money as they go forward.

AEW is absolutely putting up the best shows ever. Sure WWF and WCW have so many classics but AEW is delivering classics on a much more consistent basis.

Even when Dax main events against PAC it's a world class match.

[Evil Vito]

Jordan forever!
Nerfect never!
Jordan forever!
Nerfect never!

[xrodmuc316]

AEW is curating a growing audience

The ratings would suggest otherwise.

[drave]

Found myself really enjoying the PPV. Very entertaining show with a few lulls, but ultimately felt like I had my $50 worth and actually WANT to watch future shows.

[Jordan]

They aren't hitting their historic peaks every week but nobody is, across the board in tv. Also this season has always been down for wrestling historically. And also AEW has been halted slightly each time TNT has bumped them to Saturday for NHL.

There is a ton of reasons to excuse some of AEW's ratings dip but to me that isn't the only barometer of how good they are doing or the deciding factor in their success or failures.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

The only people who should be worried about the ratings is Time Warner, and seeing as they just gave them an extra hour on Fridays, gave them a contract extension and a raise to move to TBS and are approving live tv specials ala clash of the champions, I’d say AEW is doing extremely well.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The ratings would suggest otherwise.

AEW fans have set up the narrative enough that using evidence seems “mean.”

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh it's a shoot brother, no gimmick needed.

AEW is producing everything you actually write about on these pages.

They are developing new stars and working with unknown talents, highlighting legendary workers in a useful way while building or rebuilding damage done by WWE. AEW is curating a growing audience while constantly staying true to their core base of fans. We have stories that develop over years and stories that are settled in weeks time, the matches themselves always become the most important aspect of the stories. We have championships treated with respect and we have great tv matches every single week that build to even better matches the next.

It's just perfect the way it's going. AEW doesn't have to out draw WWE in any way to be a thriving company. AEW has great ticket sales weekly, big merch buisness and a great rights deal along with a strong PPV presence.

You wouldn't compare NJPW to WWE financially and say "oh well WWE makes a ton more money so they win". It doesn't matter because for years NJPW was just the best product and presentation in wrestling. They like AEW are just popping out great shows and making a good amount of money as they go forward.

AEW is absolutely putting up the best shows ever. Sure WWF and WCW have so many classics but AEW is delivering classics on a much more consistent basis.

Even when Dax main events against PAC it's a world class match.

No, they’re not producing the content I talk about on this forum. Don’t put words in my mouth.

They’re not developing stars. This would suggest they have fresh faces that are drawing money. Adam Page won the belt. Yippie. They ruined that for me a long time ago. He’s been a clown for the better part of the year, and has largely been a geek who doesn’t believe in himself. I’m not buying.

Apart from that, who is a star? MJF? Darby Allin? MJF loses his heat constantly and was projected to be a World Champion by now and he feels as mid-card as ever. Darby has been good at times, but feels way below being a sincere main eventer.

This idea that AEW makes stars is a construct, just like them treating tag teams better and women as equal to the men.

The stories in AEW are weak. Omega/Page was horrible. Just because you can earmark some dates when certain events happened, doesn’t make it a good story. Omega was uninspiring as World Champion, Adam Page was never hotter than he was his first day in the company. Blah. And so many stories are just dropped for no reason. Lots of things happen with no sense behind them. Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

AEW is not growing an audience, lol. Rampage has lost about half its viewership and Dynamite has slipped back towards its numbers when it was opposed by NXT. 1.4-1.6 million people watched wrestling on a Wednesday. It wasn’t impressive, but it was what it was. Now you get 900k people watching. And shrinking.

Great TV matches? The wrestling in AEW is largely white noise. Even the good stuff, hypothetically, usually lacks context and suffers because of this. It’s a bunch of movez. Where is the psychology and the drama? If you enjoy AEW’s matches? Cool. Good for you. But it’s highly subjective. There are lots of people who can’t get through this grizzle.

They run in the red, dude. We don’t know how “great” any of their business is besides the ticket sales. PPV buys and rights fees are debatable and depend on your perspective. I’m not impressed by 100k buys. Sorry, but I’m not. And I’m not impressed by $45 million per year to generate 3 hours of content.

They are riding a return of people to venues and are drying out that hardcore fan well. They have already stopped selling out. They are going to find it harder to sell tickets, not easier.

I don’t compare WWE to New Japan and say they win because they’ve got more money. The Khans have more capital than the lot of them. I saw AEW sucks because its content is juvenile, silly, insulting and ineffective. I use metrics to gauge how successful they actually are at appealing to fans. Most people who have ever checked them out have tuned them back out. This product is out of touch.

Classics is, again, subjective. I have been told that Full Gear was a classic show. That sounds forced as shit, and the show itself actually sounds rather boring. WWF and WCW put on shows that people could get excited about, and actually grew interest in wrestling from where it was.

[xrodmuc316]

They aren't hitting their historic peaks every week but nobody is, across the board in tv. Also this season has always been down for wrestling historically. And also AEW has been halted slightly each time TNT has bumped them to Saturday for NHL.

There is a ton of reasons to excuse some of AEW's ratings dip but to me that isn't the only barometer of how good they are doing or the deciding factor in their success or failures.

Most of your post was logical and on point, but they are not cultivating a fanbase. They debuted against NXT with a 1.4 rating, they have never once done better. They got close a few times once NXT moved to Tuesdays, but even that is far in the distance.

In fact if they fail to draw a million viewers Wednesday, that would be a month straight of unopposed, in their normal timeslot. That is not cultivating an audience, that is eradicating an audience.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cultivating an audience does not mean running them off. Between that and calling them “perfect” and what have you is what made me think this was a gimmick.

[Sting Fan]

No, they’re not producing the content I talk about on this forum. Don’t put words in my mouth.

They’re not developing stars. This would suggest they have fresh faces that are drawing money. Adam Page won the belt. Yippie. They ruined that for me a long time ago. He’s been a clown for the better part of the year, and has largely been a geek who doesn’t believe in himself. I’m not buying.

Apart from that, who is a star? MJF? Darby Allin? MJF loses his heat constantly and was projected to be a World Champion by now and he feels as mid-card as ever. Darby has been good at times, but feels way below being a sincere main eventer.

This idea that AEW makes stars is a construct, just like them treating tag teams better and women as equal to the men.

The stories in AEW are weak. Omega/Page was horrible. Just because you can earmark some dates when certain events happened, doesn’t make it a good story. Omega was uninspiring as World Champion, Adam Page was never hotter than he was his first day in the company. Blah. And so many stories are just dropped for no reason. Lots of things happen with no sense behind them. Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

AEW is not growing an audience, lol. Rampage has lost about half its viewership and Dynamite has slipped back towards its numbers when it was opposed by NXT. 1.4-1.6 million people watched wrestling on a Wednesday. It wasn’t impressive, but it was what it was. Now you get 900k people watching. And shrinking.

Great TV matches? The wrestling in AEW is largely white noise. Even the good stuff, hypothetically, usually lacks context and suffers because of this. It’s a bunch of movez. Where is the psychology and the drama? If you enjoy AEW’s matches? Cool. Good for you. But it’s highly subjective. There are lots of people who can’t get through this grizzle.

They run in the red, dude. We don’t know how “great” any of their business is besides the ticket sales. PPV buys and rights fees are debatable and depend on your perspective. I’m not impressed by 100k buys. Sorry, but I’m not. And I’m not impressed by $45 million per year to generate 3 hours of content.

They are riding a return of people to venues and are drying out that hardcore fan well. They have already stopped selling out. They are going to find it harder to sell tickets, not easier.

I don’t compare WWE to New Japan and say they win because they’ve got more money. The Khans have more capital than the lot of them. I saw AEW sucks because its content is juvenile, silly, insulting and ineffective. I use metrics to gauge how successful they actually are at appealing to fans. Most people who have ever checked them out have tuned them back out. This product is out of touch.

Classics is, again, subjective. I have been told that Full Gear was a classic show. That sounds forced as shit, and the show itself actually sounds rather boring. WWF and WCW put on shows that people could get excited about, and actually grew interest in wrestling from where it was.

I agree with Noid, AEW is outstanding and Noid professing his love for all things AEW is the most logical face turn in TPWW history.

[weather vane]

The only people who should be worried about the ratings is Time Warner, and seeing as they just gave them an extra hour on Fridays, gave them a contract extension and a raise to move to TBS and are approving live tv specials ala clash of the champions, I’d say AEW is doing extremely well.

Yeah this here.

[Jordan]

I think wrestling has always struggled in the fall when it comes to ratings so I don't see the under 1mill lull AEW is on quite realistically "eradicating their audience". Also the truth is that when they go on Saturdays for a week or more is definitely hurts their ratings in the following weeks which we've seen as well.

The initial 1.4 was a good example of what they ratings could be but yes obviously AEW didn't hook all of those people from the beginning. Just like how WWE used to get over a 5.0 many years ago consistently, it turned out not to be for everyone and the ratings have gone down for like 20 years.

But still, obviously there is value in the numbers that WWE draws, and what Dynamite draws too otherwise they wouldn't be making a ridiculous amount of money for the shows.

Rampage I think is hurt by mediocre match making, it's usually a good show but sometimes the matches announced don't feel "must see", where as Dynamite is treated a lot better in regard to match quality.

Anyway, in ratings you can't help but compare WWE and AEW. And WWE isn't that far ahead of AEW right now, and for AEW that's a moral win and possibly a big financial one when contract negotiations are due for the next TV deal.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

AEW also draws ppv buys, something WWE devalued for themselves, they move a shit ton of merch and they’re getting butts in the seats. Regardless of what you might feel about their overall product and presentation, they’re undeniably a successful company and to say otherwise it’s just being willfully ignorant.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think wrestling has always struggled in the fall when it comes to ratings so I don't see the under 1mill lull AEW is on quite realistically "eradicating their audience". Also the truth is that when they go on Saturdays for a week or more is definitely hurts their ratings in the following weeks which we've seen as well.

The initial 1.4 was a good example of what they ratings could be but yes obviously AEW didn't hook all of those people from the beginning. Just like how WWE used to get over a 5.0 many years ago consistently, it turned out not to be for everyone and the ratings have gone down for like 20 years.

But still, obviously there is value in the numbers that WWE draws, and what Dynamite draws too otherwise they wouldn't be making a ridiculous amount of money for the shows.

Rampage I think is hurt by mediocre match making, it's usually a good show but sometimes the matches announced don't feel "must see", where as Dynamite is treated a lot better in regard to match quality.

Anyway, in ratings you can't help but compare WWE and AEW. And WWE isn't that far ahead of AEW right now, and for AEW that's a moral win and possibly a big financial one when contract negotiations are due for the next TV deal.

The money AEW gets isn’t ridiculous though. It’s chicken scratch when it comes to live entertainment in the television world.

[xrodmuc316]

AEW also draws ppv buys, something WWE devalued for themselves, they move a shit ton of merch and they’re getting butts in the seats. Regardless of what you might feel about their overall product and presentation, they’re undeniably a successful company and to say otherwise it’s just being willfully ignorant.

WWE gets $16 million+ a month from Peacock for those PPVs they "devalued". After the PPV providers cut, AEW would need to sell about 2.5 million for their quarterly PPVs to come close to the money WWE makes from their PPVs. Or in other words, AEW would need to get 12 times more people to buy their PPVs that bought All Out when they had all the buzz possible.

I guess if they could get every person who watches Dynamite to buy each PPV three times for no reason, well then they might be able to actually brag about their PPV revenue.

Of course, that would not make up for the money they do not make from their TV deal. $45 million a year for 3 hours of weekly TV is about $285,000 per hour. Or in other words, WAAAAAAAY less than what Tony Khan is paying his roster.

AEW is able to put on a good product because they are alright losing a ton of money. They are only successful because they do not have to run as a sustainable business. If AEW had to run only on the money they earn, they would have to cut the expenses a lot. That would mean guys taking big pay cuts, or being outright released.

Look, I like what AEW is doing far more than when they started. They still do odd things, but the good outweighs the bad. That said, no they are not a successful company. Its the opposite of what you said, regardless of how much wrestling fans like us may enjoy AEW, they are undeniably a unsuccessful money losing company and to say otherwise it’s just being willfully blinded by fandom.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE gets $16 million+ a month from Peacock for those PPVs they "devalued". After the PPV providers cut, AEW would need to sell about 2.5 million for their quarterly PPVs to come close to the money WWE makes from their PPVs. Or in other words, AEW would need to get 12 times more people to buy their PPVs that bought All Out when they had all the buzz possible.

I guess if they could get every person who watches Dynamite to buy each PPV three times for no reason, well then they might be able to actually brag about their PPV revenue.

Of course, that would not make up for the money they do not make from their TV deal. $45 million a year for 3 hours of weekly TV is about $285,000 per hour. Or in other words, WAAAAAAAY less than what Tony Khan is paying his roster.

AEW is able to put on a good product because they are alright losing a ton of money. They are only successful because they do not have to run as a sustainable business. If AEW had to run only on the money they earn, they would have to cut the expenses a lot. That would mean guys taking big pay cuts, or being outright released.

Look, I like what AEW is doing far more than when they started. They still do odd things, but the good outweighs the bad. That said, no they are not a successful company. Its the opposite of what you said, regardless of how much wrestling fans like us may enjoy AEW, they are undeniably a unsuccessful money losing company and to say otherwise it’s just being willfully blinded by fandom.

Holy shit, thanks for quoting that post. People actually try to pass off AEW’s PPV business as noteworthy?