NXT 2.0 "Definitely not a Takeover" WAUGH GAMES

[DaveWadding]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">🖤💛 <a href="https://t.co/b3wiwSApf1">pic.twitter.com/b3wiwSApf1</a></p>&mdash; 𝖈𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎𝖊𝖌𝖎𝖗𝖑 🎮 (@DakotaKai_WWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/DakotaKai_WWE/status/1467551220667662341?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://i.imgur.com/EKdldeb.jpg

[DaveWadding]

This starts in 15 minutes and I have nothing else to do, so let's do this shit! I haven't watched NXT in weeks.

[slik]

Every time I try to watch NXT 2.0 I have only made it like 10-20 minutes...

Going to give this ppv a shot tonight tho

[DaveWadding]

Potentially the last night for Johnny NXT and Kylo Riley

[DaveWadding]

If nothing else, I'm looking forward to Io Shirai doing something incredible, terrifying and unnecessarily risky, because she's the best wrestler in the world and she can.

[slik]

Triple A's favorite wrestler Von Wagner in action tonight

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Ok I’ll watch

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Eli Drake turning on the old boys

[Triple A]

I guess I'll try to watch some...

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Steiner Jr has a Goldberg tattoo

[DaveWadding]

Finally Sam Roberts can shut the fuck up.....

[Supreme Olajuwon]

This pre show is garbage, which I guess they all are so whatever.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Io opening is good. Can turn off any time after.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

The woke heel is real bad

[DaveWadding]

War Games cage looks huge in tiny Performance Center arena

[Triple A]

vic joseph's voice doing me head in as always... idk why... gives me a feeling like I need to throw up

[slik]

Cora Jade falling off her skateboard 3 seconds in...

[slik]

why did they give Cora a skater gimmick, all the comments I ever see about her are she looks like she hasn't skated before nxt

[DaveWadding]

Donut understand why they keep forcing that poor girl to use the pointless skateboard gimmick that serves no purpose.

[xrodmuc316]

Beth's retirement show

[DaveWadding]

Gigi Dolin is the Walmart version of Jamie Hayter.

[Triple A]

Dakota Kai hot

[Triple A]

Gigi Dolin hot...

[DaveWadding]

Supposedly the Kai/KLR match a couple of weeks ago was good. Might go back and watch it. A title worthy feud.

[Triple A]

Any time Wade Barrett tries to say something Vic Joseph interrupts him to yell "OOOOH!"

[Triple A]

Damn, this arena looks like shit... makes the show feel really "low rent" and just seems very bleak and depressing... they really should try to return to "real" arenas for future "TakeOvers"

[slik]

agreed

[Triple A]

Fans bullying Cora Jade, chanting "You can't skate"

[Triple A]

Gigi easily the best person in this match besides Io... idk why AEW didn't sign her

[DaveWadding]

Gigi and Dakota teamwork spot, nice

[DaveWadding]

Io Shirai the one true wrestling God

[DaveWadding]

Cora Jade, wow

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NXTWarGames?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NXTWarGames</a> <br>lol what <a href="https://t.co/snU7i6Bnyu">pic.twitter.com/snU7i6Bnyu</a></p>&mdash; X (@KnowTheX) <a href="https://twitter.com/KnowTheX/status/1467667480143220736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[xrodmuc316]

That is what happens when you want a bunch of young barely trained wrestlers, they injure themselves.

[xrodmuc316]

Ok, maybe not injured since Io popped it back in for her lol

[slik]

this match isn't very good

[DaveWadding]

Just wait until Mandy Rose gets here

[slik]

this is a mess

[DaveWadding]

tbh, I don't think they would be showing replays on this if she was hurt, but Idk.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Didn’t like that

[slik]

triple a marking out r/n for von wagner

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Ron Wagner looks pretty generic and tall

[slik]

That sums up his skillset very accurately

[Triple A]

Imperium seems good

[Triple A]

Wish Lars Sullivan was in this match instead of Von Wagner

[Triple A]

damn @ Aichner... doing a bunch of cool moves

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Hey I’ll tell ya what, that match was pretty tits. Jon Wagner seemed good. Raw but good.

[slik]

devious heel turn by KOR

[Triple A]

That match was good... Aichner seems like he rules

[Triple A]

devious heel turn by KOR

What was that... did Von Wagner try to turn on him first or did O'Reilly attack him first... was half paying attention and looked like Von Wagner tried to clothesline him first

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Crowd chanting for Kyle, Son Wagner tries a heel turn, Kyle counters and throws up a UE sign

Excited for Dynamite this week

[slik]

you are right @ Triple A

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kyle too smart for that.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NXTWarGames?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NXTWarGames</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/KORcombat?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KORcombat</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/WWEVonWagner?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWEVonWagner</a> <a href="https://t.co/X8nxxJaUQb">pic.twitter.com/X8nxxJaUQb</a></p>&mdash; WWE NXT (@WWENXT) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWENXT/status/1467677799309791237?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[slik]

Hope Duke Hudson wins this

[Triple A]

Kinda enjoying this show so far more than any main roster PPV in the past 1-2 years I think...

[slik]

Duke Hudson has a great ass

[slik]

not sure this is a ppv-level match tho

[slik]

Duke Hudson to show up Tuesday with a 'comedic' wig

[DaveWadding]

Was v sure that Grimes was due to lose via already cutting his hair shorter

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Match really picked up after the poison rana spot.

[xrodmuc316]

Clippers do not work too well with wet hair!

[xrodmuc316]

I like how they are just running all the new NXT 2.0 vignettes from the last 2 months back to back to back tonight lol

[slik]

I feel like Gacy/Strong should be good

[DaveWadding]

Joe Gacy so over the top it makes it hilarious.

[xrodmuc316]

R.I.P. Cruiserweight Title

Welcome the All Inclusive Championship Era!!!

[DaveWadding]

I never really thought of Roddy as a Cruiserweight either, but maybe that's just me. If they want to keep pushing this, I'd like to see him face Drip King Escobar.

[slik]

Gacy seems strong on the mic and sort of generic in the ring so far

[slik]

Joe Gacy seems like a Great Value Kevin Owens

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Woke heel is not good in the ring.

[Triple A]

R.I.P. Cruiserweight Title

Welcome the All Inclusive Championship Era!!!

Damn, idk why they didn't do this... Cruiserweight division/205 Live has been dead for a long time...

[xrodmuc316]

Vince must have just caught up to the early 2000's and learned about Kobayashi winning eating challenges, so naturally he gave Ikemen Jiro a "eat a lot" gimmick lol

[xrodmuc316]

Damn, idk why they didn't do this... Cruiserweight division/205 Live has been dead for a long time...

Yeah, not sure at all. It would certainly be much more interesting.

[slik]

If he's supposed to be their new bray cult leader gimmick it followed the bray routine, solid promos to a build a match followed by a decisive clean loss

[DaveWadding]

I think that the ideal ending to this match is Gargano turning uber heel on Tommy Champs and then having the absolute very last Gargano/Ciampa match in Hell in a Cell

[xrodmuc316]

I love that LA Knight is considered old school NXT since he has only been there since February of this year :rofl:

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ikemen Jiro likes to eat food, or something.<br>Thanks Vince. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NXTWarGames?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NXTWarGames</a> <a href="https://t.co/hRyvnjib5F">pic.twitter.com/hRyvnjib5F</a></p>&mdash; X (@KnowTheX) <a href="https://twitter.com/KnowTheX/status/1467690201564663809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[DaveWadding]

I love that LA Knight is considered old school NXT since he has only been there since February of this year :rofl:

Yeah, pretty funny to me too.

[slik]

stealing that for twitter @ xrod

[Evil Vito]

Gargano getting a send off with his old theme

Johnny Wrestling soon to be #AllElite

[DaveWadding]

Carmelo Hayes the most impressive guy in NXT 2.0 for me so far.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Yeah, pretty funny to me too.

stealing that for twitter @ xrod

Eli Drake turning on the old boys

You ignorant sluts

[DaveWadding]

Johnny NotaTakeover doing big things already

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So the story of this Main Event is that We want the old Black and Gold NXT back because it’s way better than NXT 2.0? ��█♂️</p>&mdash; Lance Storm (@LanceStorm) <a href="https://twitter.com/LanceStorm/status/1467694700995825666?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[DaveWadding]

You ignorant sluts

You probably right.

[slik]

Waller seems sort of green to be in a main event

[slik]

I like Carmelo, Tony and Bron tho

[DaveWadding]

The crowd chanting Black and Gold :lol:

[xrodmuc316]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So the story of this Main Event is that We want the old Black and Gold NXT back because it’s way better than NXT 2.0? ��█♂️</p>&mdash; Lance Storm (@LanceStorm) <a href="https://twitter.com/LanceStorm/status/1467694700995825666?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

There goes Lance being serious for a moment again :rofl:

EXPOSING THE BUSINESS!!!

[DaveWadding]

No Air Raid Crash from the top of the cage so far. Thank God.

[slik]

wild table spear

[Evil Vito]

Seeya on TNT, Johnny

[slik]

Good main-event

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is how the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NXTWarGames?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NXTWarGames</a> Men's Match ended. <a href="https://t.co/WUhkE3DXKG">pic.twitter.com/WUhkE3DXKG</a></p>&mdash; X (@KnowTheX) <a href="https://twitter.com/KnowTheX/status/1467702232778829824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Triple A]

Damn, Breakker is insanely impressive... just picking guys up over his head with no effort 30 mins into a match

[slik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Johnny Gargano says he’ll tell us everything THIS Tuesday night. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NXTWarGames?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NXTWarGames</a></p>&mdash; Scott Fishman (@smFISHMAN) <a href="https://twitter.com/smFISHMAN/status/1467703785925615618?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Bad News Gertner]

Wow, pretty much everyone on the net are saying these new guys put on a better ppv than anything AEW did this year. Like a 9.2/10.

R.I.P

[Vastardikai]

I'm about to wreck 2 different narratives, here.

1. Maybe this is crazy, but maybe signing guys that are working on personalities is a good thing? Maybe getting larger wrestlers is a good thing?

2. Everyone swears that Goldberg only had 2 moves. Bronn Breaker's finish was one of the other power moves he did.

[slik]

You aren't wrecking anything lol.

The current nxt wrestlers are not larger wrestlers, they are still mostly the same size as they have been for years. Bron Breaker would look tiny next to Goldberg. He's 6 ft tall and 230 lbs. I swear the hoops some people will jump through...

[DAMN iNATOR]

Glad Grimes won the hair match. Wasn't really particularly interested in the rest of the show.

[slik]

You aren't wrecking anything lol.

The current nxt wrestlers are not larger wrestlers, they are still mostly the same size as they have been for years. Bron Breaker would look tiny next to Goldberg. He's 6 ft tall and 230 lbs. I swear the hoops some people will jump through...

Spider-Man is my favorite example of how dumb wrestling fans are who want everyone to be 7ft tall and 300 lbs. I get when you were a kid everyone was larger than life to you but you have to grow up and move past that.

Everyone loves Spidey and he's a guy who's probably 5'6" and 165 lbs. No one complains about this because they recognize it's fictional entertainment.

[Vastardikai]

Spider-Man is my favorite example of how dumb wrestling fans are who want everyone to be 7ft tall and 300 lbs. I get when you were a kid everyone was larger than life to you but you have to grow up and move past that.

Everyone loves Spidey and he's a guy who's probably 5'6" and 165 lbs. No one complains about this because they recognize it's fictional entertainment.

2 notes:

1. "Larger than Life" is something that "smart marks" thinks mean Physically large. "Larger than Life" is actually a reference to a huge personality. The Rock's personality is "Larger than Life." Daniel Bryan, peak "Yes Movement," had a "Larger than Life" personality. Use the terms correctly.
2. When I said "Larger," I didn't mean height. Bronn is jacked as fuck. He looks like a bigger man than the indy darlings, similar heights aside. Another example: Vader was 6'5". Lex Luger was 6'6". would you say Luger was larger?
3. Really telling that you went after the size issue, but not the personality or the fact that Goldberg had more than 2 moves. Just saying. ;)

[slik]

You didn't say "Larger than Life"


Maybe getting larger wrestlers is a good thing?


As for personalities, who are you claiming doesn't have one?
Also, I don't think Goldberg's moveset is the hill to die on you think it is.
Bron Breaker wouldn't look any more jacked than Chad Gable on the main roster. I like Chad Gable and I also like Bron Breaker. Again, why do you need him to be 'more jacked' to enjoy watching him?

[DrA]

You aren't wrecking anything lol.

The current nxt wrestlers are not larger wrestlers, they are still mostly the same size as they have been for years. Bron Breaker would look tiny next to Goldberg. He's 6 ft tall and 230 lbs. I swear the hoops some people will jump through...

I don’t agree, he’s a fucking tank and a freak athlete, just typing out his height and weight on paper with no context doesn’t do him justice.

[slik]

I don’t agree, he’s a fucking tank and a freak athlete, just typing out his height and weight on paper with no context doesn’t do him justice.

What are you not agreeing with? I responded to a post comparing his size to Goldberg. He's similar to Chad Gable in size, which I don't have an issue with. I'm not the one hung up on the size of wrestlers. I don't care about that. I'm not in fourth grade.

:|

[Lock Jaw]

Ruminating on how "weird" it is that Gargano/Ciampa are still around in NXT when like half the guys working around them have since been called to the main roster and released......

[DrA]

What are you not agreeing with? I responded to a post comparing his size to Goldberg. He's similar to Chad Gable in size, which I don't have an issue with. I'm not the one hung up on the size of wrestlers. I don't care about that. I'm not in fourth grade.

:|

I don’t agree that he would look tiny next to Goldberg. Rick Steiner never looked "tiny" when he wrestled Goldberg because he was formidable and built like a shit brick house. Scott Steiner sure as hell didn’t and Bron is the same height/has that same frame and underlying genetics to pile on a lot of muscle. The fullback on the football team doesn’t look tiny standing next to the defensive tackle, that’s not the way it works.

[slik]

I appreciate your feedback but why does it matter?

Why does he need to be bigger/more jacked in the first place to enjoy him as a wrestler? You are missing my point. Why does Vastardikai need wrestlers to be bigger/more jacked to enjoy watching them or to validate them? It's all fiction, it doesn't matter.

No one looks at Spider-Man fighting Rhino or Venom or Kingpin and says 'vanilla midget, terrible, hate it'

[slik]

If someone looks like a roided up experiment gone awry, great
If someone is lean as fuck, great

Are they a entertaining wrestler, good promo, interesting person or gimmick?
That's all that matters in the end. I don't get the obsession with 'I can only root for people who I think are physically larger than me'. It's weird.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Spider-Man is my favorite example of how dumb wrestling fans are who want everyone to be 7ft tall and 300 lbs. I get when you were a kid everyone was larger than life to you but you have to grow up and move past that.

Everyone loves Spidey and he's a guy who's probably 5'6" and 165 lbs. No one complains about this because they recognize it's fictional entertainment.

Spider-Man is larger than life. As Vastardikai said, it has nothing to do with size. Looking like a million dollars can help with it though.

The polish and emphasis a lot of modern wrestlers put into the structure of their matches and making them “good” for the hardcore audience or to make them as smooth as possible actually discourages some fans from connecting with the product, in my opinion. It’s so much easier to go back and watch two guys that are way more clunky but are calling it in the ring than a lot of modern performances.

[Destor]

guy is comparing wrestling to comic books while calling everyone children for caring about size. process how out of touch that is for a moment.

[DrA]

I appreciate your feedback but why does it matter?

Why does he need to be bigger/more jacked in the first place to enjoy him as a wrestler? You are missing my point. Why does Vastardikai need wrestlers to be bigger/more jacked to enjoy watching them or to validate them? It's all fiction, it doesn't matter.

No one looks at Spider-Man fighting Rhino or Venom or Kingpin and says 'vanilla midget, terrible, hate it'

The issue with me is a lot of the smaller guys I’ve seen in modern wrestling just aren’t that good. I don’t watch wrestling that closely, but I’ve watched guys like the Young Bucks wrestle a couple of times recently and if I’m being honest I thought they were pretty sloppy matches compared to what the cruiserweights were doing back in WCW in 1990s. I can look the other way at size and physical appearances if you can back it up in the ring, but it feels to me like you have a lot of guys now who not only don’t look the part, they haven’t refined their craft in the ring either, and it makes the product altogether feel half-baked a lot of the time.

[Destor]

soy boys. weak people who have no spine. if a fight broke out theyd take off running leaving you to defend yourself. everything about combat is theoretical to them. you could absolutely market a product to them. theres no reason why you couldnt. but it would be niche. like wrestling ever increasingly has become in direct proportion to marketing to them.

it also has some psychological oversights that are dismissed at your own undoing. superheros have reasons that they are capable of doing these larger than life feats. theyre called super powers. they allow the reader to suspend their disbelief and get behind spider-man lifting a car and throwing it at an enemey.

this is of course what we want to see: feats. the super power is the vehicle that brings us to our destination.

wrestling unfortunatly is not a comic book. its flesh and blood. but we still want to see feats. so you need physical living breathing humans to do these feats.

if im watching a physically inferior human specimen to myself perform feats that exceed what i myself am capable of how can i be invested?

this is the disconnect. weak people, soy boys, pacifists, etc they can easily jump on board. watch a tv show where a 100lb girl out boxes a 280lb man because...reasons? no problem. but to anyone whos felt one of the beta males teeth cave under their knuckles they know that what theyre seeing is complete bullshit.

weight classes exist for reason. tom cruise does his scenes standing on a box for a reason. perception is reality. and the perception that a roster of rey mysterios are tough guys will only be reasonable for a group of very weak men. next time you watch a wrestling look to the crowd. take in the type of people theyre attracting. youll notice a common thread. compare that to a boxing or mma event. in the past they were the same crowd. they arent now. that CAN change btw. you can draw them.

try to logic your way around this issue all you like. this will be true no matter what you say. there's a very large sect of males who want to watch manly men do manly things. to inspire them. to motivate them. and manly men doing manly things brings in women too which in turn brings in more men to be around the women.

instead we have guys like cm punk, who is worthless in a fight. guys like seth rollins who get frightened when theyre attacked. these guys are just playing wrestlers.

we used to have actual wrestlers. guys who could walk into a bar at 2 am and clear thar mother fucker out. guys who walked away from plane crashes. guys who slit bruiser brodys throat over a dispute. you bought them because they werent bullshit.

people want to believe. we all have the understanding that its bull shit. like watching magic or like going to a film. but like a film the casting absolutely matters. if you went to a biopic about Arnold Schwarzenegger and the male lead was 5'4 and 140lbs with a beer gut and they played it straight youd walk out.

you can def have smaller guys as a part of your troupe if built properly. Benoit was always believable for example. but this idea that its simply not a factor is completely out of touch with reality and very basic human psychology.

its the difference of stumbling on a raccoon vs a bear. this is about fundamental evolutionary human psychology and a generation thats grown so privileged to live so far removed from anything that resembles real conflict and that theyve lost touch with reality is why this concept could ever arise in the first place.

its not just a bad take. its not just wrong. its an anti-truth. and it wasnt worth typing all this out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

soy boys. weak people who have no spine. if a fight broke out theyd take off running leaving you to defend yourself. everything about combat is theoretical to them. you could absolutely market a product to them. theres no reason why you couldnt. but it would be niche. like wrestling ever increasingly has become in direct proportion to marketing to them.

it also has some psychological oversights that are dismissed at your own undoing. superheros have reasons that they are capable of doing these larger than life feats. theyre called super powers. they allow the reader to suspend their disbelief and get behind spider-man lifting a car and throwing it at an enemey.

this is of course what we want to see: feats. the super power is the vehicle that brings us to our destination.

wrestling unfortunatly is not a comic book. its flesh and blood. but we still want to see feats. so you need physical living breathing humans to do these feats.

if im watching a physically inferior human specimen to myself perform feats that exceed what i myself am capable of how can i be invested?

this is the disconnect. weak people, soy boys, pacifists, etc they can easily jump on board. watch a tv show where a 100lb girl out boxes a 280lb man because...reasons? no problem. but to anyone whos felt one of the beta males teeth cave under their knuckles they know that what theyre seeing is complete bullshit.

weight classes exist for reason. tom cruise does his scenes standing on a box for a reason. perception is reality. and the perception that a roster of rey mysterios are tough guys will only be reasonable for a group of very weak men. next time you watch a wrestling look to the crowd. take in the type of people theyre attracting. youll notice a common thread. compare that to a boxing or mma event. in the past they were the same crowd. they arent now. that CAN change btw. you can draw them.

try to logic your way around this issue all you like. this will be true no matter what you say. there's a very large sect of males who want to watch manly men do manly things. to inspire them. to motivate them. and manly men doing manly things brings in women too which in turn brings in more men to be around the women.

instead we have guys like cm punk, who is worthless in a fight. guys like seth rollins who get frightened when theyre attacked. these guys are just playing wrestlers.

we used to have actual wrestlers. guys who could walk into a bar at 2 am and clear thar mother fucker out. guys who walked away from plane crashes. guys who slit bruiser brodys throat over a dispute. you bought them because they werent bullshit.

people want to believe. we all have the understanding that its bull shit. like watching magic or like going to a film. but like a film the casting absolutely matters. if you went to a biopic about Arnold Schwarzenegger and the male lead was 5'4 and 140lbs with a beer gut and they played it straight youd walk out.

you can def have smaller guys as a part of your troupe if built properly. Benoit was always believable for example. but this idea that its simply not a factor is completely out of touch with reality and very basic human psychology.

its the difference of stumbling on a raccoon vs a bear. this is about fundamental evolutionary human psychology and a generation thats grown so privileged to live so far removed from anything that resembles real conflict and that theyve lost touch with reality is why this concept could ever arise in the first place.

its not just a bad take. its not just wrong. its an anti-truth. and it wasnt worth typing all this out.

Fantastic fucking post.

[Mr. Nerfect]

On the comic book thing, and there are many reasons the analogy falls down: If Spider-Man didn’t have his strength, spider sense, etc. If he was just a guy in a costume who pretended to beat up bad guys who also didn’t have any powers, and weren’t even physically menacing — would you give a shit? Wrestling might think it’s promoting Spider-Man vs. The Lizard, but they’re closer to promoting Peter Parker vs. Doc Connors.

The testosterone has really been taken out of wrestling. It’s escapism where violence and physical prowess rule the day. That’s been stripped away for a detached appreciation of the performance as an intention. You can definitely see it in the crowds.

[Fignuts]

Of all the comic book characters Slik could have chosen, he picks one with one of the most broken, op power sets out there.

[Fignuts]

I don't mind a smaller guy getting the better of a bigger guy as long as it makes sense. Rey Mysterio was mentioned earlier, and is a perfect example. Mysterio isn't out there winning tests of strength, and strike exchanges with bigger guys. He uses his quickness, and he uses his small size to his advantage by ducking under and jumping over attacks. When he does go on the offensive, he uses his entire body as an attack while using his momentum. Zack Sabre Jr. Is another example. Almost everyone he puts in a submission is bigger than him, but he always applies them in a way where he clearly has leverage over his opponent, so that it makes sense that he's locking these larger athletes into the hold.

I'm even okay with a small guy taking down a big guy with a kick to the head because A. I don't care how big you are, someone kicks you in the head, you're going to feel it, and B. A small guy being manhandled, and then hitting a big fat enziguri out of desperation is just a plain old fun spot.

But again, it all comes down to making sense. And even an average sized wrestler selling punches from guys like Marko stunt and drake maverick makes about as much sense as Steiner math.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rey Mysterio is underrated when it comes to his psychology. Not everybody can do what he does. It’s not just because he’s unique, but it’s because he’s really, really, really good. And that wasn’t enough to fool some people.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Just throwing it out there that I cannot get into ZSJ, lol. The last match I saw him in was against Tomohiro Ishii and it was horrible. He tried to act too much like a bad-ass and I didn’t buy it. Somehow I still get intrigued by the idea of him working other people, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a ZSJ match I’ve actually enjoyed.

[Fignuts]

There are times where he gets in strike exchanges and it's like "okay guy, stick to what you know", but he still deserves a mention for making his main repertoire of moves work on bigger guys.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There are times where he gets in strike exchanges and it's like "okay guy, stick to what you know", but he still deserves a mention for making his main repertoire of moves work on bigger guys.

Don’t disagree with that at all. His actual execution of submission holds, as you point out, is fine. It’s his overall psychology that zones me out, lol.

[slik]

I’ve watched guys like the Young Bucks wrestle a couple of times recently and if I’m being honest I thought they were pretty sloppy matches.

I'm not a big Young Bucks fan, I don't think most people here are big Young Bucks fan. I just find it hilarious in a way, that Vastardikai takes all these little pot shots at AEW on here from time to time and then goes and posts something comparing Bron Breaker to Goldberg. It's too funny to me.

If Bron Breaker was in AEW he'd just be labeled another 'indy darling' and 'vanilla midget'. Guaranteed. But since he's in WWE you get people, like Vastardikai, who instantly think he is so much larger than he actually is. It's a such a bizarre e-drone mentality.

[Fignuts]

He's around the same height as Will Hobbs, Jeff Cobb, and Miro, and nobody calls those guys vanilla midgets.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm not a big Young Bucks fan, I don't think most people here are big Young Bucks fan. I just find it hilarious in a way, that Vastardikai takes all these little pot shots at AEW on here from time to time and then goes and posts something comparing Bron Breaker to Goldberg. It's too funny to me.

If Bron Breaker was in AEW he'd just be labeled another 'indy darling' and 'vanilla midget'. Guaranteed. But since he's in WWE you get people, like Vastardikai, who instantly think he is so much larger than he actually is. It's a such a bizarre e-drone mentality.

I don’t agree with this at all. I find guys look smaller when they go to the WWE.

[slik]

I probably ranted too much about this when I was tired last night, so apologies to DrA and Vastardikai if I seemed rude. I'll probably have a totally different opinion on what I was talking about in six months because that's just how I am.

Cheers!

[Vastardikai]

I don’t agree with this at all. I find guys look smaller when they go to the WWE.

A good example is Cesaro, who is slightly smaller (shorter and leaner) than Sheamus and Cena. In Chikara, he looked like a Man amongst boys, where he was either A. taller than everyone, B. more muscular than everyone, or C. Both.

[Vastardikai]

There are a few things to note: 1. I was not comparing Bronn Breaker to Goldberg. I said that A. Goldberg has more than the 2 moves everyone bitched about. He actually had more. and B. One of those moves Goldberg did is the move Breaker is currently using as a finish.

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2. While I don't necessarily agree with all of his terminology, Destor kind of explained my point a bit better than I did.

3. There are multiple schools of thought as to what is Professional Wrestling. At it's most successful, The school used was primarily "Wrestling as Morality Play." "Wrestling as a Sport" is a close second. "Wrestling as a Comedy routine" or "Wrestling as an Athletic Exhibition" are a bit more niche presentations.

I have said this before, and I am not in the minority here. I do want to see folks who I believe can whip my ass in a fight. It's not a hard and fast thing. I respect what the Miz does, as he fills his role to perfection. He is obnoxious and you want to punch him in the face. But he doesn't try to be cool and he isn't winking at the crowd while he's doing what he does. The occasional athletic exhibition can be really fun. But it has to be occasional. Ricochet doing his tumbling routine with Ospreay that one time, I don't care for it, but I understand what is going on. Ricochet doing his tumbling routine with Cesaro, ok I buy that because Cesaro is an atheletic freak. Ricochet doing his tumbling routine with the Viking, he can fuck right off. In order for that whole routine to work, he has to establish that there are people who can't keep up with him. The Viking, as agile as he is, should be able to keep up with him. He should be trying to blast him out of the sky or getting winded trying.

I'm tired of "work rate" circle jerks. It's just a different version of the John Laurinitis paradox. If everyone's a giant, no one's a giant. (we actually agree on this). If everyone's a phenomenal wrestler, no one's a phenomenal wrestler. I don't want just different sized dudes having the same kind of match. I want different sized dudes doing different things. For a long time, NXT was too into the "smaller" work rate guys with minimal personality. And now we are seeing the more personality based guys that look like they have spent time in the weight room.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There are a few things to note: 1. I was not comparing Bronn Breaker to Goldberg. I said that A. Goldberg has more than the 2 moves everyone bitched about. He actually had more. and B. One of those moves Goldberg did is the move Breaker is currently using as a finish.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nkIo1gYNDWA" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

2. While I don't necessarily agree with all of his terminology, Destor kind of explained my point a bit better than I did.

3. There are multiple schools of thought as to what is Professional Wrestling. At it's most successful, The school used was primarily "Wrestling as Morality Play." "Wrestling as a Sport" is a close second. "Wrestling as a Comedy routine" or "Wrestling as an Athletic Exhibition" are a bit more niche presentations.

I have said this before, and I am not in the minority here. I do want to see folks who I believe can whip my ass in a fight. It's not a hard and fast thing. I respect what the Miz does, as he fills his role to perfection. He is obnoxious and you want to punch him in the face. But he doesn't try to be cool and he isn't winking at the crowd while he's doing what he does. The occasional athletic exhibition can be really fun. But it has to be occasional. Ricochet doing his tumbling routine with Ospreay that one time, I don't care for it, but I understand what is going on. Ricochet doing his tumbling routine with Cesaro, ok I buy that because Cesaro is an atheletic freak. Ricochet doing his tumbling routine with the Viking, he can fuck right off. In order for that whole routine to work, he has to establish that there are people who can't keep up with him. The Viking, as agile as he is, should be able to keep up with him. He should be trying to blast him out of the sky or getting winded trying.

I'm tired of "work rate" circle jerks. It's just a different version of the John Laurinitis paradox. If everyone's a giant, no one's a giant. (we actually agree on this). If everyone's a phenomenal wrestler, no one's a phenomenal wrestler. I don't want just different sized dudes having the same kind of match. I want different sized dudes doing different things. For a long time, NXT was too into the "smaller" work rate guys with minimal personality. And now we are seeing the more personality based guys that look like they have spent time in the weight room.

Fantastic fucking post.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The whole goal of what this is supposed to be has changed.