Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[M-A-G]

Official teaser...

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[Destor]

Film is going to be a narrative train wreck

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah.... Still really wish they recast T'Challa... I get "respect" and all, but there's also "legacy" and "impact" of the character....

I have to admit that was a hot trailer though... great editing....

[M-A-G]

No matter what they did the Boseman thing was going to be hanging over it. Hopefully the film can let people grieve, cope, and move on.

[Destor]

I think most peoole did that 2 years ago

[M-A-G]

A friend had the idea that the new Panther should be Nakia and not Shuri. It'd be an interesting angle because in terms of the narrative from the last movie she was the one who pushed T'Challa to be more helpful towards the world. Obviously it's nowhere near established comic lore and I'm sure it'd anger some purists but it wouldn't be completely out of the blue.

[Destor]

Itll def be Shuri

[ClockShot]

Oy vey.

This looks rough.

[Lock Jaw]

Nakia didn't even appear in Avengers, bro... so no one know who she even is

[M-A-G]

Nakia didn't even appear in Avengers, bro... so no one know who she even is

What if, like, a whole bunch of Wakandans wear the Black Panther suit in the climax? You know, like the ending of ¡Three Amigos!?

[Lock Jaw]

What if it is Lock Jaw

[Destor]

What if its Lockjaw

[Lock Jaw]

If it isn't then that should def be in s2 of What If...?

[Tom Guycott]

No matter what they did the Boseman thing was going to be hanging over it. Hopefully the film can let people grieve, cope, and move on.

I think most peoole did that 2 years ago

Perhaps. But they were in an unenviable position. Not only did they already get a lot of shit years ago for Rhodey going from Terrance Howard to Don Cheadle, and this would do nothing but bring that back up... there is also the issue of Boseman being the initial and defining actor. It would be like WB pumping out "Superman V: Who Gives A Shit About Plot, It's For Kids!" right after Christopher Reeves got paralyzed and picking any rando to wear the tights. Then multiply that outrage exponentially.

There's too many moving parts, here. It was a potential shitstorm at the intersections of cultural touchstone, defining actor, respect for the dead, and any other controversy and/or non-troversey a recast would herald... justified or not. Why bother with it? "The only winning move is not to play."

[Destor]

Strongly disagree. I think the cost to young black boys is beyond tragic. Losing a hero that could have defined a generation is the worst play that could have been played. The Halloween following BP1 its was THE costume.

Hopefully Anthony Mackie's Cap4 can fill that role but i have no faith in the actor (RIP Altered Carbon.) Shuriis popular amongst a sect of the audience so hopefully this all female avengers theyve winked at takes off and this can atleast work for young girls (cross ethnically) but the loss of T'Challa, who imo is the single best black hero with all his depth and complexity, its a huge negative culturally for a token tribute that wont be half as memorable as the impact the character could have had.

And frankly, psychologically speaking, recasting superman was right. It can fail but telling kids their heroes are dead is worse than a film failing.

[Lock Jaw]

Also, was there an outrage at Rhodey being recast? I remember it just being like "ok, whatever"

[Destor]

In defnese of tbat no one cares about war machine

[Sepholio]

who tf is war machine? That sounds like a jobber character.

[M-A-G]

who tf is war machine? That sounds like a jobber character.

War Machine is James Rhodes, Stark's friend who is played by Don Cheadle.

[Sepholio]

whoosh

[M-A-G]

:$

[M-A-G]

Hey, nothing goes over my head! My reflexes are too fast.


I would catch it.

[Tom Guycott]

Also, was there an outrage at Rhodey being recast? I remember it just being like "ok, whatever"

The issue was less about the character of War Machine, and far more about picking a completely different actor and keeping it moving like "any black dude will do; who's kinda hot right now that we can just plug in?".

Doing that with T'Challa would have led to a larger PR mess than letting Mr. Boseman be deified within the MCU meta like so much Stan Lee, and that's even giving them the benefit of the doubt that a recast would come with careful consideration and picking someone with the damn near impossible ability fit the role, act well, and walk the line of being similar enough without veering into "cheap Chadwick knockoff". That's a hard bullseye to hit, let alone come near, and even if they did, it would still, more likely than not, come off bad to fans. The shit flinging would drop from merely bad to downright disasterous if whoever the new T'Challa was sucked ass.

It wasn't worth the gamble.

On a personal note, I think it says a lot about the guy behind the role that even a heartless monolithic corporation considers him irreplaceable. He was the right person in the right place at the right time. Lightning in a bottle on a clear sunny day. And I say all that as a guy who never really got into Black Panther as a kid. He came off to me like a dick, and I wondered why one of the few black characters who was supposed to be a hero was such an asshole. Maybe I just caught the wrong appearances.

[Fignuts]

I prefer the way they're doing it. It would have felt weird and off to me, no matter who they got to replace boseman. Plus, I like Shuri in the comics so I'm kind of hyped to see her in the role on screen.

It has to be good though. If they're going to do this, it can't be poor or even solid. They have to slam dunk it.

[Frank Drebin]

Just should have had Lance Reddick and dressed him up like Wesley Snipes.

[teamXtremist]

I seriously feel for DC fans. Such great characters and fans who want to see these great characters yet they get new Batman and Joker movies over and over again.

[M-A-G]

I think most peoole did that 2 years ago

You say that but one of my friends legit started tearing up when she watched the teaser. Then again she cries for almost anything.

[M-A-G]

Newest trailer. I suppose it only makes sense that'd we'd be getting Attuma, too.

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[Lock Jaw]

Second trailer got me less excited than the first. Dunno why.

[drave]

burnout and or hero fatigue setting in

[Lock Jaw]

That's probably it. Like this trailer was more a reminder of "oh yeah, this is just another Marvel movie".... where the editing and visuals of the first trailer made it look interesting and unique...

[Fignuts]

Didn't realize Ironheart would be in this.

[M-A-G]

Yeah, this is a weird place to have Ironheart featured. Granted, I don't know much about the character but you would think they'd just want to focus on Wakanda and Atlantis.

[Kalyx triaD]

Iron Heart fits in a Black Panther for reasons that are kinda regressive ("I mean she's black they're black so...") but despite what MCU appears - there's only so many slots to introduce characters and their origin stories in their pipeline. I personally would have went with Arnor Wars (now a movie) considering her relation to Rhody and what she creates for herself, but I can't fault them for giving her a B or C plot in a movie that will have a lot of eyes. When her show comes along they could skip past particulars of who she is and where she came from.

[Fignuts]

Yeah, I can see the benefits, I'm just worried they're putting too much into this film. Especially considering they HAVE to knock this one out of the park.

[ClockShot]

Confused as to what Namor and or Attuma is supposed to be here. Atlantean or the last of a long lost tribe of Mayans.

Might skip this.

[Fignuts]

People have tried link Mayan civilization and atlantis before, so its not completely random.

[Destor]

Film seems really busy

[Destor]

Im curious what the run time will be. Seems like they need nearly 3 hours for all this

[Savio]

Gonna watch tmw.

[M-A-G]

I already gave it my (positive) rating in the other thread but I will add one more little personal bonus that I didn't bring up there. 95% of the time, everything is being taken seriously. The Marvel humor formula barely permeates, and the movie is much better for it. Also, even though it's got a pretty hefty runtime, it doesn't feel like it.

[Fignuts]

Im curious what the run time will be. Seems like they need nearly 3 hours for all this

Runtime is apparently 2 hours, 40 minutes.

[Savio]

No after credits scene.

[Savio]

I liked the movie, disliked all the ironman suits though. Also thought both armies were kinda dumb. Aqua men shoulda finished em off during the first battle. Wakanda shouldn't have taken the fight to the ocean

[XL]

No after credits scene.

Yeah I found that out the hard way.

[Lock Jaw]

If I am seeing it alone, I usually stay until the credits are done at every movie anyways.

Was gonna go see this today but then thought "nah".... will go tomorrow maybe...

[Destor]

Black Panther 2 - 5/10


What a slog. They could have cut half the run time and half the characters and the film wouldnt have changed. Namor was cool in action but aestheticlly unappealing. There's a lot wrong with the movie. Hated the score. I could shit on the film for being as bad as it is but everyone who watches will pick up on it on their own. There's really no need.

Still better than Eternals.

[Helmsphere]

This was always going to be a Disney plus venture for me.

[Lock Jaw]

Feeling like zero desire to go out and see this, but dammit if the Marvel machine don't have its hooks in me... going out to see it now....

[Lock Jaw]

Damn.... theater was empty when I bought the tickets a few minutes ago but there are two people right in front of me.... gross... humans....

[Destor]

There were maybe 10 people in theater with me. Maybe. Last time was a packed house

[Big Vic]

Theater was packed saturday.


Honestly this is the 2nd best movie from Marvel phase 4 behind Spiderman.

[Lock Jaw]

Back from it... I actually really enjoyed it. Best movie since Eternals.

I could see myself actually willingly watching it again, which does not really happen with Marvel movies/content anymore.

[XL]

If I am seeing it alone, I usually stay until the credits are done at every movie anyways..
Why?

[XL]

Black Panther 2 - 5/10


What a slog. They could have cut half the run time and half the characters and the film wouldnt have changed. Namor was cool in action but aestheticlly unappealing. There's a lot wrong with the movie. Hated the score. I could shit on the film for being as bad as it is but everyone who watches will pick up on it on their own. There's really no need.

Still better than Eternals.

I wouldn’t go that low but it did feel like the first hour really dragged.

[Destor]

There were multiple exposition scenes followed by exposition scenes most of which i think were wildly unnecessary. The audience gets mermaids. Its not a crazy concept. We dont need to spend much time on this at all.

Iron Heart is a commercial for the D+ series. While i loved her chracter and attitude she does nothing for the plot and you could remove her completely with no change to the story or climax save a line or two of dialogue to justify the central conflict.

Infact most of the film is really not needed for the plot. The integral scenes could be stripped down to about 45 min. And since the scenes that need to be cut are all exposition it makes for a real brutal watch.

Eternals i at least understood why the exposition was there. Celestials is a big concept. Lotta talking is needed. This? Tf?

The score constantly undermined the emotion of the scenes. Frequently wed have pretty dour scenes backed by rythmic up tempo percussion tracks. The score makes no fucking sense. Did the director move off the project at post? Absurd.

Suri doenst work as a lead. The actress is not up for it. She was GREAT as a side kick. Come in, pop off a cheeky one liner, bounce. As a lead she's basically incompetent. She has no range whatsoever and falls into the Brie Larson camp of one emotion for the entire run time.

The action itself was piss poor. The car chase is probably the worst car chase in the history of cinema. Why? Its talking fucking heads. Action movie finally has an action scene and 80% is close ups of faces inside helmets.

And on a pure nerd point: suri beat submariner with an explosion. Namor is immune to fire.

[Lock Jaw]

Why?

For the music and "ambience", mainly. Also gives me time to reflect and contemplate on what I just saw.

[Destor]

For the music and "ambience", mainly. Also gives me time to reflect and contemplate on what I just saw.i like that

[ron the dial]

For the music and "ambience", mainly. Also gives me time to reflect and contemplate on what I just saw.

a critic i like mentioned doing this for the reflection reason a few years back and i've taken to doing it as well when i go out to catch something.

[Lock Jaw]

I actually "dislike it" when I'm seeing a movie with other people and I feel "pressured" to leave before the end of the credits. Feel like I haven't experienced the whole movie.

[drave]

kick your own ass for that. do it.