AEW x NJPW: Forbidden Door 2023

[GD]

https://i.redd.it/ni1rmm40f68b1.jpg

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can’t see the original post, but the answer is Loose Cannon.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Not very pumped for this show. I tell myself that I’ll watch Okada/Danielson, but I probably won’t.

[Mr. Nerfect]

So many matches. Not many of them particularly interesting.

[erickman]

how long you think it will be 5 hours

[GD]

Can't believe Filthy Tom Lawlor and TJP are a part of this card.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

just saw Adam Cole isn't cleared.

[weather vane]

Illness. Damn. Sucks.

[Evil Vito]

That sucks for both of them. Cole because it’s yet another issue with him at Forbidden Door, Lawlor because this would’ve a great showcase for him on a US PPV.

Roddy Strong would be a great replacement opponent but I assume that would’ve been announced if it were happening. Card is long enough as is.

I assume we’ll get Cole/Lawlor on Dynamite soon.

[Wehttam]

just got an illness now?

i knew he had a big case of the bores for years now.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzewysiaAAAu1pM?format=jpg&name=large

[GD]

https://i.imgur.com/za3TX7B.jpg

Dope.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This card doesn’t need to be any longer. Just scrap Lawlor/Cole, have Lawlor take the forfeit win and brag about it.

Worried about Cole.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think you’re looking at 180 mins of ring time without the pre-show or Cole/Lawlor. It’s just too much if you stretch it out any longer.

[Sepholio]

Prob Flu. Seems to be going around early, especially in the Jacksonville area. Know quite a few people with pretty nasty cases of it right now.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

This Zero Hour card is pretty tits. Shingo and Takahashi on the pre show is nuts. Weren’t they supposed to be the future of New Japan just a year or two ago

[GD]

I think you’re looking at 180 mins of ring time without the pre-show or Cole/Lawlor. It’s just too much if you stretch it out any longer.

I'm surprised that Mr. Nerfect is considering the length of the PPV since he usually gives his in-depth analysis after skimming through highlights. This is quite the development.

[Sepholio]

There's def a couple matches I am excited to see here but most of this card feels thoroughly "meh".

[Sepholio]

Danielson/Omega, Omega/Ospreay, MJF/Tanahashi and I guess maybe the 4 way for the international title and BCC/Elite.

Actually no on the BCC/Elite. Its just gonna be unneccesary blading and setting up stupid spots.

[GD]

There's def a couple matches I am excited to see here but most of this card feels thoroughly "meh".

To be fair, we're incredibly spoiled. This card is more than incredible. I for one feel quite eager.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Danielson Okada could be the greatest match of all time
Omega Ospreay could be a 5 star match if you’re into their brand of wrestling (I am)
Was looking forward to MJF Tanahashi until I saw how busted Tanahashi looked against Swerve
Punk Kojima should be very good if Punk is working heel
The Int’l title match should be tons of fun
JAS vs Sting Darby and Naito. Let’s go
Still mad at Jungle Boy being Sanada’s jobber. Wish it were Joe, Jarrett, or Christian

[Evil Vito]

Yeah Tana feels like he’s at New Japan dad stage

That said the crowd will be shit hot for him and he and MJF can tell a real good story so I think it’ll still work

[Evil Vito]

Fun opener.

[Evil Vito]

God damn Athena…

[Evil Vito]

Billie…you don’t need to be doing top-rope back bumps onto the ring apron.

[Sepholio]

Hey look it's knock off Logan Paul

[Evil Vito]

Lol remember when everyone thought Vincent and Dutch were gonna come in to be in a stable with Bray Wyatt and that Vincent was Uncle Howdy

[Sepholio]

ok this is weird....is El Phantasmo the long lost Paul brother? The resemblance really is striking.

[Sepholio]

Pogan Laul wins his AEW debut.

[Evil Vito]

I love how the most basic human psychology has worked on MJF numerous times

If Daffy Duck were a wrestler

[Sepholio]

Tony sent the Navy out tonight to try and protect his kingdom from us privateers. I bid ye good luck, landlubber.

[Sepholio]

Lotta look alikes tonight. This ref looks like HBaldK.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Tanahashi has Matt Hardy leg. Not great.

[GD]

Can't find a decent stream.

[Evil Vito]

Nice psychology in MJF/Tana. Tana's beaten down to hell but it worked for MJF.

[GD]

Damb @ CM Punk

[Sepholio]

lolol listen to that reaction

[Evil Vito]

I always like the Japanese announcer adding an extra syllable to stretch out the name for the gaijins

"M-J-FEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHH"

"C.M. PUNKEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHH"

[Evil Vito]

Inject heel Punk into my veins

[Sepholio]

YE CAN KEEP TRYING TO SINK ME SHIP TONY BUT I'LL SWITCH SERVERS UNTIL IM SLEEPIN IN DAVY JONES BITLOCKER YAHAAARRRRRR

[slik]

good stream at this link

https://sportshub.fan/event/aew_forbidden_door_141421818/

[Sepholio]

Holy shit at the boos lololol

[Evil Vito]

Punk fucking channeling Chong Li from Bloodsport. Brilliant.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Fun match. Lol at the announcers saying Kojima has the most feared lariat since Stan Hansen.

Stay tuned for our main event featuring the Rainmaker Kazuchika Okada and whatever his finisher is.

[slik]

an aew ppv in chicago, this is a novel concept

[Evil Vito]

Set whatever your thoughts are on the backstage shit aside and there's just no way you can make an objective argument that a motivated Punk back on AEW TV is a bad thing. That was great.

[slik]

when are they going whatever ALL IN is, a tv special, ppv, etc...

[Evil Vito]

Groan @ Chicago getting yet another PPV

That said it's now the United Center so at least it's an upgrade

[Evil Vito]

Pop @ Shibata/Cassidy showdown

[Evil Vito]

Loved how mad the NJPW subreddit got when Shibata put over Orange on Rampage last year, saying Tony Khan was abusing the working relationship even though Shibata flat out admitted in interviews that Orange (and Danielson) were the 2 guys he most wanted to wrestle

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Fun as fuck 4 way. OC has been such a fun champion.

[Sepholio]

There is no chance of it happening but imagine Jungle Boy winning this

[Evil Vito]

Orange getting increasingly desperate his last few defenses

Sets him up nicely to drop the belt to a heel within the next month or so, maybe right around his one year mark as champion

[slik]

Big Match Sanada up next

[slik]

kind of hope Sanada squashes Jungle Jack

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Really hate how they made the IWGP belt look like the Divas Championship

[slik]

Sanada very handsome

[Evil Vito]

SANADA and Shingo both winning the title in the last couple of the years is really cool. The stigma over Japanese guys who weren’t NJPW trueborns gradually being lifted

[Evil Vito]

SANADA/JB was solid

[Evil Vito]

Woooo heel Jungle Boy

[Evil Vito]

Taz being on commentary for the turn on Hook is a nice touch

[slik]

jungle boy a damn jezebel

[Evil Vito]

Death Rider theme way better than Wild Thing

[slik]

hope wheeler yuta pins omega again

[slik]

Would like to see Eddie Kingston as Hank Hill for Halloween I tell you what

[Evil Vito]

Fuck, Eddie's G1 run is gonna rule.

[Evil Vito]

Man that 10-man tag was so good

[slik]

Would like to see Eddie Kingston as Hank Hill for Halloween I tell you what

Orange Cassidy as Boomhauer please

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Would like to see Eddie Kingston as Hank Hill for Halloween I tell you what

*hwut

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Dang it Bobby

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Toni looks like she’s lost some of her thunder dumper. Disappointed

[Evil Vito]

Toni looks like she’s lost some of her thunder dumper. Disappointed

Yeah she’s dropped some weight in the past month or two. And I guess based on her build it makes sense that would go first.

I mean, good for her but not good for us.

[slik]

wish willow won that

[slik]

is jericho or okada main-eventing this show

[Evil Vito]

is jericho or okada main-eventing this show

Okada

[Evil Vito]

Nice @ Elevated being used for Ospreay’s theme

[Sepholio]

I just realized why this card seems lacking to me.

It needs more PAC.

[slik]

moxley seething omega got the blade job match

[Evil Vito]

Omega selling like crazy for Ospreay

[Evil Vito]

Liked the announcers acknowledging that DQ's are at referee discretion

Very common for NJPW matches especially, it's often said that you have to commit felonious assault to get DQ'ed in a G1 match

[Evil Vito]

I love that the Sharpshooter in Canada got a full boo while the Crossface got more of an awkward/uncomfortable boo

[Evil Vito]

Omega kicking out of the One Winged Angel at 1 just made me jump off my fucking couch!!!

[Evil Vito]

Holy fucking shit what a match

[Sepholio]

holy shit the Tiger Driver 91 :o

Such a sick rasslin move

[Evil Vito]

This is already solidly the PPV of the year and we haven't even gotten to Okada/Danielson

[Frank Drebin]

Groan @ Chicago getting yet another PPV

That said it's now the United Center so at least it's an upgrade

Suck it, Vito

[slik]

Fantastic match but worried Omega got injured on the Tiger Driver 91 spot

[weather vane]

Duel announcers is an awesome touch.

[weather vane]

Tanahashi is washed. So slow. Still an attraction but better off in multi tags going forward I would say. How old is he? 49. Makes way more sense now.

[weather vane]

Punk is so so good playing the heel. One of the best. Kojima looks great, for his age especially.

[Sepholio]

LOLOLOL DID JERICHO YELL "CAWWWWWWW" BEFORE THAT SPLASH AHAHAHAHAHAI:DAHDLKSBFS

[Evil Vito]

Naito always wears t-shirts for multiman tags as his way of deeming them unimportant

Sting wears a t-shirt because he's a million years old

Dammit Darby, way to not adhere to the team uniform

[slik]

Really never need to see a Tiger Driver 91 spot again

[weather vane]

Wish more 3 and 4 way dances were elimination style.

[Evil Vito]

FINAL COUNTDOWN LETS FUCKING GO

[weather vane]

Unreal 4 way. These guys are unreal. Big ZSJ fan. All AEW wins is weird. See what happens.

[weather vane]

an aew ppv in chicago, this is a novel concept

I don’t get it. I mean I get it but dumb.

[slik]

Okada a confirmed draw in Toronto

[slik]

Kevin Kelly is great

[weather vane]

Unreal 4 way. These guys are unreal. Big ZSJ fan. All AEW wins is weird. See what happens.

Also love Shibata.

[Sepholio]

Bryans braids make it look like there is a vageen on his head lolololol

[weather vane]

RED SHOES

[Sepholio]

ooof that weird neck breaker

[slik]

Danielson scaring the hell out of us

[weather vane]

Jungle Boy turns. Good. Hopefully will make him interesting.

Love the fans chanting “you fucked up” after he hit Hook. Haha. Hope Hook suplexes him to hell!!!!!!11

[Evil Vito]

Holy shit! 100% running that back at the Dome, then.

[slik]

I thought Okada would win that, good match - Ospreay/Omega the MOTN though

[weather vane]

Takeshita looks deadly as a heel.

[Evil Vito]

Danielson/Okada was very good but if anyone wanted to question whether or not Danielson is capable of holding back, that was your answer

Very clear they didn't go all out for that one.

[weather vane]

Friggin frick! Holyyyyy.

[Evil Vito]

Anyone who set the baseline for Okada/Danielson at being the best match ever might find it disappointing, even though it was very good. But I think they gave you a bunch to work into the psychology of their next match while also leaving plenty of meat on the bone.

There's no way in hell NJPW would let Okada lose clean without there being a clear plan in place. And Danielson himself would've assuredly preferred to lose if a rematch wasn't happening. The Dome will be where they take it to another level.

[DaveWadding]

What a great show. Can't remember the last time I was completely enthralled with wrestling for 5 straight hours. Pretty much every match was amazing. Love Ishii getting the win in his match. Naito in North America is fucking lit. Shingo needs to be brought over for a few months so he can wreck everyone's shit.

[weather vane]

Hangman so good.

[weather vane]

Ishii mint when he gets on fire. Didn’t see him getting the pin.

[Sepholio]

Anyone who set the baseline for Okada/Danielson at being the best match ever might find it disappointing, even though it was very good. But I think they gave you a bunch to work into the psychology of their next match while also leaving plenty of meat on the bone.

There's no way in hell NJPW would let Okada lose clean without there being a clear plan in place. And Danielson himself would've assuredly preferred to lose if a rematch wasn't happening. The Dome will be where they take it to another level.

So basically this was a 6/5 match and the next one will get the full 7/5?

[weather vane]

That hip attack by Toni is always impressive.

[RaginRonic]

FINAL COUNTDOWN LETS FUCKING GO

Nice to see that my boys in EUROPE, Joey Tempest (singer), John Norum (guitars), John Leven (bass), Mic Michaeli (keyboards), and Ian Haugland (drums) getting shown some love in AEW as they roam the European continent on their 2023 Summer Festivals tour!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mbcAJjfzkpo" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

One of the best modern-era live performances of the song, btw. =)

[Fignuts]

Danielson broke his arm early in the match.

Explains why it never really hit that high gear people were expecting.

Shame. But hey, theres always the dome.

[weather vane]

Jesus Omega/Osprey was bonkers. Don’t get the sending Callis to the back and then letting him back but whatever. That was nuts. Got me a few times with those false finishes.

[weather vane]

Suzuki posing with them haha.

[weather vane]

FINAL COUNTDOWN

[weather vane]

Danielson broke his arm early in the match.

Explains why it never really hit that high gear people were expecting.

Shame. But hey, theres always the dome.

Thought he was just selling really well.

[RaginRonic]

FINAL COUNTDOWN

Yep....I dare say this...

...EUROPE is ALL ELITE, BABY! =D

[Ben Rodrigues]

I don't get the hype for Omega/Osprey. I heard the last one was really good so I was looking forward to this. It felt like it should have been 20 minutes shorter- the screwdriver part should have been the end but it kept going and going. Even my partner (who doesnt watch a lot of wrestling) was saying "okay wrap it up". I don't know - maybe it's the style of wrestling?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Anything worth going out of your way to see on this show?

[Ben Rodrigues]

Anything worth going out of your way to see on this show?

Punk's match was good - worked heel well and crowd reaction was good. Didn't care for the opener. Fast forwarded a lot of matches. Main event kinda flat.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Thanks. I think I’ll check out Punk’s match. Since he’s been back, I’ve been enjoying the layers to his work.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't get the hype for Omega/Osprey. I heard the last one was really good so I was looking forward to this. It felt like it should have been 20 minutes shorter- the screwdriver part should have been the end but it kept going and going. Even my partner (who doesnt watch a lot of wrestling) was saying "okay wrap it up". I don't know - maybe it's the style of wrestling?

This is my problem with a lot of Omega matches. How many finishers do you need to fucking take before the match is over? Not saying it should be like the WWF in 1995 where you hit a finish and the match is over. And I love old-school Japanese matches that can grow long and a tooth, but they used to feel much more believable.

That said, I haven't watched it, but I can't say I plan to. I'm not invested in either Ostrich or Olivier. Happy to hear everyone loved it, I guess.

[Evil Vito]

Danielson broke his arm early in the match.

Explains why it never really hit that high gear people were expecting.

Shame. But hey, theres always the dome.

Yeah that's really a shame. It was obvious they had largely "benched" him after the Iron Man match both to heal nagging injuries and also to make sure he's ready for Forbidden Door this year. They seemed to be trying to not draw attention to it but it was obvious watching all of the BCC/Elite segments. Every pier six brawl that broke out they'd never show Danielson because he'd slide out of the ring and they were going out of their way to make sure he wasn't doing anything physical.

Then the match happens and he picks up a broken arm 10 minutes in. That type of injury can happen to anyone but it was just especially shitty luck that it was him.

[Evil Vito]

6-8 week recovery time for Danielson. The good thing is that this, in theory, means he can still work Wembley and All Out (9-10 weeks respectively) if he heals up.

But he's said repeatedly over the last year and a half or so that, while he wants to wrestle into his 50s, his full-time career is very quickly winding down. Think we're pretty much at that point.

I think he'll eventually settle into a schedule where he's just wrestling the PPVs and select big Dynamites like Grand Slam. Figure he works a dozen-ish matches a year while carrying on everything else he's been doing (on-screen managerial role, creative, helping mentor/train younger talent etc)

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol I'm sure he still worked a damned fine match with a broken arm.

[screech]

I don't get the hype for Omega/Osprey. I heard the last one was really good so I was looking forward to this. It felt like it should have been 20 minutes shorter- the screwdriver part should have been the end but it kept going and going. Even my partner (who doesnt watch a lot of wrestling) was saying "okay wrap it up". I don't know - maybe it's the style of wrestling?

I also felt this way. That style of wrestling really isn't for me, I don't think.

But I'm not an Omega fan so that was likely a big part of it too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m not an Omega fan. It all feels so “fake.” He’s obviously athletically gifted, but kicking out of a finish at 1 to pump a crowd up feels too easy. It’s like it’s cheating somehow. Then there are all the faces he pulls. Maybe that’s gotten better over the years — I’m not an avid enough observer of his work — but it totally takes me out. Effective selling is such a vital part of telling an engaging story. To never master that nuance is lazy to me.

Shame to hear about Danielson’s arm. I dunno, I just don’t care about Bryan Danielson in AEW. And while the next match between Okada and Danielson might be better — it could also be worse too. And now we know a one-armed Danielson is better than a healthy Okada. I hope Okada’s opponents bring that up and slap him with it, because it’s just another thing that makes puroresu way “faker” than it needs to be.

It’s funny — it’s got this cultivated reputation of being treated more like a sport and being respected and what have you. There are times I’m watching it — usually as guys are standing there asking to be hit in the head — that I think it is way more cartoony and ridiculous.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ve REALLY liked Tanahashi when I’ve seen him wrestle in the past. I’m a bit bummed to hear about him ageing out. Especially because I’m not sure they have a guy that can really replace him.

[Evil Vito]

Kudos to Perry/SANADA for accomplishing what it set out to do. Perry got a few hope spots in but it was largely a 10-minute throttling with SANADA completely outclassing him, having one of the shortest/easiest IWGP title defenses in recent memory. He didn't even break out his top-tier finishers for this one.

SANADA comes out of it looking well positioned for his G1 block where he's got guys like Shota Umino, Ren Narita, and Gabriel Kidd in there, so he can go on a "fuck 'dem kids" kind of run.

Perry meanwhile gets beaten so decisively that he finally comes to grips with the fact that he's simply not good enough as he is, leading to the turn.

[Evil Vito]

Genuinely intrigued by a heel Jack Perry. Still not convinced he can cut a promo worth a fuck, but I imagine he'll get booed substantially enough the next time out that he doesn't have to talk much anyway.

Ditch the Tarzan Boy music. Change the gear. Change the hair. Throw Anna Jay with him to remind everyone that this annoying little shit managed to get a hot girlfriend.

Plenty you can do to make him a solid midcard heel that people want to see get his ass kicked.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t have high hopes for heel Jungle Boy at all. Nothing about his performances indicate that he’d be good for this. I was skeptical if heel Dominik Mysterio too though lol. But the difference there is that I had a feeling he must be tailored for it, because Rey wouldn’t sabotage his son like that. JB turning heel feels more like they’re doing it last ditch because nothing else has worked.

[GD]

Catching up on the show now…crowd chanting “you sick fuck” as Osprey licks Omega’s blood and uses the Crippler Crossface later in the match.

[GD]

This is an amazing match. I wonder how CM Punk phils about it.

[GD]

Paul Turner is too loud

[GD]

Holy shit @ Omega’s foot on the rope after the Storm Breaker.

[GD]

Holy shit @ Omega kicking out of the one-winged angel at one

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I really enjoyed Ospreay v Omega. Thought it was great. I do think it should’ve ended at the screwdriver spot should’ve been the end but I loved it nonetheless.

Okada v Danielson, even with Danielson obvs injured early, was easily my match of the night. That’s my type of match. Back and forth, hard hitting, nothing over the top with spots, and a great finish that I didn’t see coming but was satisfying and stunning all the same.

[GD]

What an amazing match

[GD]

What the duck

[GD]

It’s the final countdown holy suit

[GD]

Holy shit this is awesome

[GD]

This is such a trip haha

[GD]

The grin on Bryan’s face haha this is too good

[GD]

Fucking goosebumps for Okada

[GD]

Bryan dominating a much bigger Okada in the early going.

[GD]

Okada and Bryan is pretty decent. Feel like the show peaked at Omega-Osprey.

[GD]

Whoa! Surprised by the ending of Bryan-Okada. That was mental.

[GD]

Bryan was injured...didn't realize that.

[Wehttam]

running commentary should only be for people who say interesting things.

[GD]

Why?

[Tom Guycott]

Groan @ Chicago getting yet another PPV

That said it's now the United Center so at least it's an upgrade

It is one of those weird ironic things. The EVPs were SOOOOO proud of running in Chicago because of the little plaque they got after ALL IN... but now, for some reason, they don't seem to put it over nearly as much.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If it’s All In that’s in Chicago, it’s a mistake to move it. Full Gear could be anywhere.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ve heard mixed things about the main event. But from what I’ve gathered, Punk/Kojima and Danielson/Okada get the strong votes. People also seem split on MJF/Tanahashi. It’s just not enough to get me to invest in a PPV or get behind Forbidden Door as a concept. I’d rather some AEW guys just go to New Japan and get booked a bit differently.

Give me Claudio Castagnoli taking down LIJ on his own (I want to see Claudio vs. Shingo). I wouldn’t mind CM Punk doing something with David Finlay, KENTA and some Bullet Club guys over there. I dunno, the crossover stuff as it is just doesn’t appeal.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Eddie Kingston in the G1 works and is more what I’m talking about.

It’d be cool if Danielson challenged Ospreay for the US Title to prove he’s better than Omega.

[Ben Rodrigues]

I’ve heard mixed things about the main event. But from what I’ve gathered, Punk/Kojima and Danielson/Okada get the strong votes. People also seem split on MJF/Tanahashi. It’s just not enough to get me to invest in a PPV or get behind Forbidden Door as a concept. I’d rather some AEW guys just go to New Japan and get booked a bit differently.

Give me Claudio Castagnoli taking down LIJ on his own (I want to see Claudio vs. Shingo). I wouldn’t mind CM Punk doing something with David Finlay, KENTA and some Bullet Club guys over there. I dunno, the crossover stuff as it is just doesn’t appeal.

I think MJF is fantastic but I didn't get anything from "The Ace". As someone who doesn't know anything about Japanese wrestling, Tanahashi looked fat and slow. I think that's the problem with this concept for me - like I have no investment in the NJPW wrestlers. Bought the PPV because of Punk. Was interested in Danielson vs Okada (who I recall being their guy for years) and was curious about Omega vs Osprey.

I felt the same way after Danielson/Okada as I did following AJ/Nakamura at WM. It was fine but given my high expectations was somewhat disappointed.

[Ben Rodrigues]

And the more I think about it - the more I don't understand why Omega/Osprey has gotten so much much praise.

Can someone who thought this match was excellent explain what about it you liked? I've heard for years that Omega was the best in the world and everytime I watch him - he's fine at best. He's certainly no Kurt Angle/HBK/Bret Hart.

I bought the NJPW show for Jericho vs Omega - and it was fine.

Then AEW started and I was excited. I bought the PPV and watched Omega vs Jericho and it was fine.

Then i watched the Moxley match where they fell in barbed wire. It wasn't the best and I just wrote it off because of the match.

Then I remember he got the new entrance (with the cheerleaders) and the matches were fine.

His title reign wasn't anything special.

Is there a Kenny Omega match I should watch that will change my opinion of him?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

If you like video game style matches then he’s good. I think there are elements of his style that have potential. I remember in his “legendary” series with Okada there were moments where it really felt like a fight but they detracted from it with way too many kick outs.

[screech]

I've heard for years that Omega was the best in the world and everytime I watch him - he's fine at best.

This is exactly how I feel about Kenny Omega. So many people tell me he's the best in the world and I watch him and go "that was fine."

I just don't get why people rate him so highly.

[screech]

Though I guess what Dale said makes sense. People do seem to love a bunch of finisher-type moves and lots of kick outs.

meh. That "style" isn't for me.

[Sepholio]

Feels like old school wrestling fans are in a vocal minority that don't care much for his style. Everyone else, especially younger people, have been groomed by Hollywood to enjoy the Crouching Omega, Hidden Elite wire kung fu fests. People want action and style, not 2 guys rolling around on the mat for 10 minutes feeling each others legs up after a hip toss.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I enjoy his matches but have never really gotten the whole OMG HE'S THE BEST TO EVER DO IT BY FAR hype.

[Sepholio]

Every time someone says Omega is the best I just assume they have never seen PAC.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah if people like it, they like it. Not much to be said.

[weather vane]

Love him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And the more I think about it - the more I don't understand why Omega/Osprey has gotten so much much praise.

Can someone who thought this match was excellent explain what about it you liked? I've heard for years that Omega was the best in the world and everytime I watch him - he's fine at best. He's certainly no Kurt Angle/HBK/Bret Hart.

I bought the NJPW show for Jericho vs Omega - and it was fine.

Then AEW started and I was excited. I bought the PPV and watched Omega vs Jericho and it was fine.

Then i watched the Moxley match where they fell in barbed wire. It wasn't the best and I just wrote it off because of the match.

Then I remember he got the new entrance (with the cheerleaders) and the matches were fine.

His title reign wasn't anything special.

Is there a Kenny Omega match I should watch that will change my opinion of him?

It’s so weird you bring up the “what do you actually like about it?” test. I was actually wondering that myself today.

There are so many other wrestlers that do better work, make you feel more, have a much more versatile game, etc.

[Mr. Nerfect]

PAC was one of the best about 5 years ago. Now I’m not so sure, I haven’t seen enough. But I’d rather watch PAC from 5 years ago than Omega now. Or from 5 years ago.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

I like Omega just fine. He’s not my favorite but I’d be lying if I said I don’t enjoy watching him do his thing. My favorite Omega match is probably the one against Danielson on the first grand slam, and that’s more because I enjoy Danielson’s style. He’s more my type. But Omega is fun to watch and thought his match was Ospreay was excellent for what it was.

[GD]

I love how Mr. Nerfect has a strong opinion on PAC and Kenny Omega without watching a single match of theirs. That’s a level of confidence you simply cannot teach.

Personally, I do believe that Omega is one of the greatest wrestlers of this generation. His style of in-ring storytelling is so unique and innovative. I understand if his style of wrestling isn’t your cup of tea but to dismiss it as “video game” style of wrestling is also unfair.

[XL]

running commentary should only be for people who say interesting things.

I’m not agreeing with this but I do think running commentary should be reserved for when the show is on live.

[GD]

I’m not agreeing with this but I do think running commentary should be reserved for when the show is on live.

Why? I didn't have access to a stream or a legal way to watch the PPV. I had to wait and since I was watching it in the afternoon, due to the time difference, this is in the only place where I can share my excitement. I steered clear of the results and was genuinely stoked by the Osprey-Omega fight.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

don't worry Darlene, I liked your running commentary!

[GD]

don't worry Darlene, I liked your running commentary!

Far too kind. It was hot garbage but I don't care. I was genuinely excited for Omega/Osprey + Bryan/Okada which doesn't happen that often.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hot garbage is a bit of a stretch lol. You were just having fun. Muhfucks just be hatin and I think they'd all kind of admit it if you really got down to it.

[GD]

Hot garbage is a bit of a stretch lol. You were just having fun. Muhfucks just be hatin and I think they'd all kind of admit it if you really got down to it.

Fair enough. It's not often I find myself so excited for wrestling shows nowadays :yes:

[Destor]

Both are matches worth getting hyped for. High level talents in their prime getting main event time to work on a big show. Doesnt happen every day.


Shame about Danielson and the match as well to be fair. Definitely not what anyone wanted but bones breaking...well you cant really prevent.

[Destor]

Hopefully there's a chance for a runback down the line

[xrodmuc316]

Pac is as great as he has always been, but he is never around long enough to really give him a full push. Even if he was, AEW has a horrible track record of building anybody past the initial goal of getting them over.

At this point, whenever he is back he will be in trios matches and maybe a random midcard title match, because that is the exact same thing he has been since he beat Omega one on one on PPV.

[GD]

xrod, do you think PAC can do "KOJIMA! LARIAT! LARIAT! LARIAT!" justice like CM Phil?

[Destor]

Im not big on Pac but the people he's over with he's super over. He's slowed down in the past few years and his stuff is better for it. Its a taste clash though. Not my thing.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

PAC was one of the best about 5 years ago. Now I’m not so sure, I haven’t seen enough. But I’d rather watch PAC from 5 years ago than Omega now. Or from 5 years ago.

Pac is as great as he has always been, but he is never around long enough to really give him a full push. Even if he was, AEW has a horrible track record of building anybody past the initial goal of getting them over.

At this point, whenever he is back he will be in trios matches and maybe a random midcard title match, because that is the exact same thing he has been since he beat Omega one on one on PPV.

Would you guys say that PAC is “The Man That Tony K Forgot”

[xrodmuc316]

xrod, do you think PAC can do "KOJIMA! LARIAT! LARIAT! LARIAT!" justice like CM Phil?

LOL come on, Pac can do literally anything better than CM Phil. Athletically that is like comparing Lamar Jackson to some 1st grade kid with asthma.

[Sepholio]

It's me, Matthew Droford.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Would you guys say that PAC is “The Man That Tony K Forgot”

Yes. Yes I would.

[GD]

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[XL]

Why? I didn't have access to a stream or a legal way to watch the PPV. I had to wait and since I was watching it in the afternoon, due to the time difference, this is in the only place where I can share my excitement. I steered clear of the results and was genuinely stoked by the Osprey-Omega fight.

Oh it’s definitely just a personal preference thing. Like when you’re exchanging messages with someone, some people write and send it line by line, some people write the full message in one message (I’m the latter).

If it’s happening “in the moment” I get the running commentary - its pretty much the intention of the thread. If you’re watching after the fact I’d just watch and express my feelings after. But again, it’s a personal preference thing, you do you. :heart:

[XL]

Quoting a post immediately following said post is another forum pet peeve of mine :lol: Like, we can see what you’re reacting to, it’s literally above your post.

[GD]

Quoting a post immediately following said post is another forum pet peeve of mine :lol: Like, we can see what you’re reacting to, it’s literally above your post.

To be fair, some posters have a tendency to delete their posts :shifty:

[Helmsphere]

Every time someone says Omega is the best I just assume they have never seen PAC.

[Damian Rey 2.0]

PAC was booked beautifully at the start of dynamite, beating Omega and Hangman then going to a draw against Moxley, if I remember correctly. Really thought he was gonna be a major player but he just hasn’t been.

I do think we’re seeing Okada v Danielson at wrestle kingdom. Then maybe one more match after that to close out a trilogy.

[XL]

I think PAC was planned to be a bigger guy in the pecking order of AEW but then he had travel/visa issues (didn’t he?) and the COVID stuff and then they picked up a load of guys from WWE that ended up shuffling him down the card.

[weather vane]

running commentary should only be for people who say interesting things.

I’ll just go fuck myself.

[Sting Fan]

I dont think Omega is the greatest of all time but I think hes up there and easily one of the current top guys.

I enjoy the spectacle aspect of a match with a lot of high flying, high impact and if a wrestler can get me to bite on false finishes I'm normally all in or I suppose somewhat emotionally invested in the match. Kenny seems to be good at what I enjoy in a match.

I want to say holy shit once a match, I want to be impressed by the impact of moves, I want to be impressed by the fluidity of whats going on in the ring and I want to bite on a false finish.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think PAC was planned to be a bigger guy in the pecking order of AEW but then he had travel/visa issues (didn’t he?) and the COVID stuff and then they picked up a load of guys from WWE that ended up shuffling him down the card.

I think their booking just sucks.

[Maluco]

Feels like old school wrestling fans are in a vocal minority that don't care much for his style. Everyone else, especially younger people, have been groomed by Hollywood to enjoy the Crouching Omega, Hidden Elite wire kung fu fests. People want action and style, not 2 guys rolling around on the mat for 10 minutes feeling each others legs up after a hip toss.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I enjoy his matches but have never really gotten the whole OMG HE'S THE BEST TO EVER DO IT BY FAR hype.

I honestly think you have this backwards. It’s only the vocal minority that still watch wrestling. The majority, that liked having big stars, stories and selling have stopped watching a long time ago.

The likes of Omega and the Bucks have made wrestling a niche product that doesn’t appeal to the masses. It’s athletically impressive, sure, but it isn’t professional wrestling.

People want stars and stories over athleticism. Even in the ring, psychology and selling live longer in the memory than any amount of flips and finisher kick outs. That’s why Rock/Hogan was an infinitely more memorable spectacle watched and remembered by many more people than Omega/whoever.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wrestling is dead.

[RaginRonic]

Wrestling is dead.

Then go suck Trump's 2-inch pecker, and then get fucked in the ass by it if you want to have that attitude. XD

[Sepholio]

Well that escalated quickly.

[Destor]

Lol wut

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ll pass on that. Is Collision on tonight?

[Sepholio]

I honestly think you have this backwards. It’s only the vocal minority that still watch wrestling. The majority, that liked having big stars, stories and selling have stopped watching a long time ago.

The likes of Omega and the Bucks have made wrestling a niche product that doesn’t appeal to the masses. It’s athletically impressive, sure, but it isn’t professional wrestling.

People want stars and stories over athleticism. Even in the ring, psychology and selling live longer in the memory than any amount of flips and finisher kick outs. That’s why Rock/Hogan was an infinitely more memorable spectacle watched and remembered by many more people than Omega/whoever.

The problem with this is that you are seemingly counting the people who quit watching awhile ago. Wrestlings viewership has been down forever. I'm talking about the people who are still watching right now.

People do want stars and stories, for sure, but they don't want to be bored in between either. When WWEs ratings were in their downfall period a few years ago, they finally caved and started pushing more of the faster paced work rate guys. Their ratings stabilized when they did it. Even WWE has noticed the trend. Stories are great, but in the age of 7 second video clips online, spectacle wins. Every. Single. Time.

I guess when I said Hollywood is what conditioned people to want more spectacle, I should also mention that the internet age is a huge factor here. You can make a highlight clip out of that Omega/Ospreay match and it will get more views than any clip of some story teller working a classic style match. A lot more.

[Sepholio]

Basically it boils down to the fact that those of us that have watched wrestling since the 80s and longer are not the target audience anymore. Our kids are. And their tastes and what they want from content and how they consume it is wildly different. You aren't going to find many young people who think anything pre-attitude era is better wrestling than the flippy shit of today (I'm talking purely the action, I'm sure they'd find some of the storylines equally or more compelling than current offerings). Hell, you aren't gonna find that many that know much about anything before then at all. It's just not what they grew up with.

Case in point, my kids are bored to tears by classic rassling. Even most attitude era shit. They find it straight up lame. But you show them Richochet bouncing around like a madman and they'll mark out like it's the greatest thing they've ever seen. Storylines don't even really matter to them at all because they know it's all fake drama and scripted, they just want to see guys kicking the shit out of each other like they are video game characters.

[RaginRonic]

I’ll pass on that. Is Collision on tonight?

Interesting to see someone here back-pedal when threatened by ReTrumpliKKKunt cock. Great job. XD

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rof l::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::r ofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Sepholio]

Tarnation, what in.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Hayell. What in the.

[Fignuts]

I mean, he's not called Quiet Contemplation Ronic.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Interesting to see someone here back-pedal when threatened by ReTrumpliKKKunt cock. Great job. XD

I’m not back-pedalling. Been there, done that. Boring.