AEW ALL IN 2023 thread

[Evil Vito]

Not sure how many people will live post with the state of the boards now but hey!

[Evil Vito]

MJF and Cole win the ROH Tag Titles and the crowd goes nuts. That’s a lot of people.

[Evil Vito]

Mercedes Mone is in the building bah gawd

[screech]

I want Paul Wight to chokeslam someone today

[Stu Hart]

anyone got a snipe stream for ol Stu ?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I want Paul Wight to chokeslam someone today

Already happened Bubba

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Not gonna buy the show but watching the pre show. Tag match was fun.

[Evil Vito]

Britt Baker saying the women’s division is equal to the men’s

Only one women’s match on the whole show lol

[Evil Vito]

I like TK for the most part but someone really does have to hold his feet to the fire at how shit and half assed the women’s division is

[xrodmuc316]

Britt Baker saying the women’s division is equal to the men’s

Only one women’s match on the whole show lol

That is only 2 less than the number of singles matches though

[screech]

Already happened Bubba

Well set him up again!

[Stu Hart]

Hot start to this Hook / Perry match

[Stu Hart]

REAL GLASS .

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Can two men wrestle an entire match on top of a limo? Let’s find out!

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Oh jeez that cut on Perry’s tricep looks awful

[Sepholio]

<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/7x4gcw"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/7x4gcw.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a><div>

[Sepholio]

What was the crowd just chanting? Because it can't be what I heard.

[Evil Vito]

Perry is such a little shit. Really enjoy him as a heel.

[Stu Hart]

jungle wanker

[Sepholio]

jungle wanker

lol nice

[fundiddle]

i can't get wooo to load anything, bollyrulezz is shite. anyone got a stream link they can share?

[Sepholio]

czech reps if ye asked for assistance sailing the digital seas.

[DaveWadding]

I missed the tag title match 😔

[fundiddle]

BREATHE IN, BREATHE OUT


thanks, Seph <3

[Evil Vito]

Next week might be the first time I look for an AEW stream. The card they have to announce on a one week build would have to blow my nips off to pay full price two weeks in a row

Really should’ve done a package deal tbh

[Evil Vito]

I love how there was an immediate mix of big pops and boos as soon as Punk’s theme hits, but then regardless of what side of the fence you were on everyone had to sing the first line of the song

[Evil Vito]

Punk on first. Can’t wait for the inevitable report from Meltzer that he demanded to go out first so he could leave before the Bucks got to the building.

[Sepholio]

I just got the only thing I wanted out of this match. A nope spot.

[Evil Vito]

I just got the only thing I wanted out of this match. A nope spot.

Punk having it scouted the first time only to fall for a minute later is brilliant

[Evil Vito]

Joe kicking out of a Hogan Leg Drop at one yessssss

[Evil Vito]

Whether I love or hate Punk at the moment, I’ll always pop for a Pepsi Plunge

[Sepholio]

lmao I told Dale a few mins ago that they should go old school and have Punk win with a Pepsi Plunge to avoid another botched GTS spot.

[Evil Vito]

Lmao Punk took exception to Perry taking a shot at him during his match so apparently they had a physical confrontation before Punk walked out

[screech]

I guess the cardboard cutout couldn't get through customs

[Evil Vito]

Callis having the brown note as his theme makes me laugh every time

[screech]

Lmao Punk took exception to Perry taking a shot at him during his match so apparently they had a physical confrontation before Punk walked out

lmao Punk is such a baby

[screech]

I don't know the story so I have no clue what the "shot" was

[Stu Hart]

Was that punk match too short?

[Evil Vito]

I don't know the story so I have no clue what the "shot" was

Supposedly Punk criticized Perry for using real glass in a spot a month or so ago

So right before his limo spot Perry looked into the camera and said “that’s real glass, cry about it”

Softest man in the sport

[Sepholio]

Was that punk match too short?

Went longer than I thought it would honestly. I think it was a fine length.

[Sepholio]

If that story is legit then it's just further proof that Punk is a bitch lol. Like he needs to stop confronting people. He's gonna pick the wrong person one day and it's not gonna end well for him.

[Evil Vito]

Kota looks to be in better shape than his last outing

[Sepholio]

Kota looks to be in better shape than his last outing

He sure does. A lot better.

[screech]

Takeshita is deceptively fast. Damn

[screech]

Also I gotta say it's great watching rasslin in the middle of the day

[Sepholio]

Juice reminds me of Encino Man with a beard.

[Sepholio]

Ibushi just got sent to another plane of existence

[Stu Hart]

That juice looks like a chibi versoon of bruiser brody

[Stu Hart]

Non blonde cody rhodes shot

[Evil Vito]

Good finish there. Takeshita vs Kenny singles match next week will be fun

[Evil Vito]

If Cash doesn’t eat the pin here I’ll be surprised.

[DaveWadding]

Juice reminds me of Encino Man with a beard.

He looks like the honey comb guy

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Someone said Juice Robinson looks like the Honeycomb cereal guy and now I can't unsee it. <a href="https://t.co/vRN9J7SveD">pic.twitter.com/vRN9J7SveD</a></p>&mdash; Zenbar Wrestling (@ZenbarWrestling) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZenbarWrestling/status/1674146098376474624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 28, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Sepholio]

If Cash doesn’t eat the pin here I’ll be surprised.

lol womp

[Evil Vito]

lol womp

Womp indeed. That sure was a choice.

Fucking stellar match though.

[Sepholio]

Yeah it was a great match but as the great Dastardly One just said to me in regards to Cash: "Sir--we wish to award you for your unhinged, criminal behavior."

[erickman]

just to make jim cornett happy

[Sepholio]

TK chanting CM Punks name in gorilla rn. Punk wins, Omega eats the pin, Bucks lose...we know who TK has a lady boner for sure.

[Evil Vito]

Lol Santana now officially being Mike Santana but Ortiz is still just Ortiz

[Sepholio]

fffffffffuuuuccck that spot with Mox and Penta.

[Sepholio]

This is turning into a damn outlaw mudshow!

[Evil Vito]

SUE GETS ONE OF THE BIGGEST REACTIONS OF THE NIGHT!

[Evil Vito]

Penta Oscuro!

[Evil Vito]

Best Friends win via Sue hitting Moxley with a 450 splash off a ladder through a barbed wire table

[Evil Vito]

Fucking incredible

[Evil Vito]

That scene of the bloodied Best Friends walking out together is just a chef’s kiss moment. Day one guys and Trent and Chuck have been needing to win a big one for a long time. Excellent.

[screech]

That was nuts

[XL]

czech reps if ye asked for assistance sailing the digital seas.

Could do with some assistance here too ;)

[Evil Vito]

Poor Emi Sakura’s whole gimmick in Japan was doing a Freddie Mercury impression, getting the crowd to chant SHE WILL ROCK YOU and yet she stays home while Saraya gets to use the music

[Evil Vito]

Terrified that Tony won’t be able to resist pulling the trigger on the hometown win here….

[Evil Vito]

Most undeserving title win in AEW history. Good job, Tony!

[Evil Vito]

This was supposed to be Hayter’s moment :(

[rez]

my stream got blocked. hook a sista up

[Evil Vito]

Sting got back Metallica lol yes

[rez]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[rez]

someones, anyones. link

[Frank Drebin]

If that story is legit then it's just further proof that Punk is a bitch lol. Like he needs to stop confronting people. He's gonna pick the wrong person one day and it's not gonna end well for him.

I'll wait on this one to see whats said but yeah....if true.....he needs to check himself.

TK chanting CM Punks name in gorilla rn. Punk wins, Omega eats the pin, Bucks lose...we know who TK has a lady boner for sure.

Good. I'm a Collision guy.

[Frank Drebin]

Poor Emi Sakura’s whole gimmick in Japan was doing a Freddie Mercury impression, getting the crowd to chant SHE WILL ROCK YOU and yet she stays home while Saraya gets to use the music

Sakura might be my least favorite of all time. I legit can't take it. Blubbery comedy act that can't do shit.

This was supposed to be Hayter’s moment :(

Yup. Lot of talk about what to do with the Women's division. I think you need Hayter in the mix no matter what your solution is.

[Frank Drebin]

Pretty much tuned out the entire 6 man tag and stadium stampede match. Can't believe there's another 6 man tag match to go still.

[rez]

missing the stinger :( no live stream

[Evil Vito]

I’d normally hate having this many plunder matches on the same show but this show has been fun as fuck

[Evil Vito]

Swerve has clear star potential. Glad he’s gotten to show out in this.

[rez]

guess i'll just go do something else

[Evil Vito]

Jericho/Cole at DON was pretty terrible and honestly the first time I started to think that Jericho might finally be past it in terms of being able to churn out a good marquee singles performance

But this might be a better litmus test. Ospreay as a person makes me groan but I can’t deny he’s insanely talented. If Jericho can’t hang in this spot it’ll be a pretty clear sign he should move to New Japan Dad tag status.

[Frank Drebin]

Whats wrong with Osprey as a person?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Didn’t even know the show was on rn. First thing I read is that Jack Perry was a twat on their “biggest show ever” and got into a fight with CM Punk backstage. Fuck’s sake, AEW. Time to start putting your foot down with the unprofessionalism. Bye bye, Jack.

Show sounds completely missable. Maybe there was some solid wrestling in some of the matches? Nothing jumps out as urgent though. Punk and Joe opening has real World Heavyweight Title opening WrestleMania vibes.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Honestly, Punk should just pull the parachute chord and leave that nightmare of a place. Let Collision collapse and Tony panic when he can’t secure enough money to make AEW profitable. If they aren’t going to appreciate you, take it somewhere else.

[Evil Vito]

Whats wrong with Osprey as a person?

Enabler of sex pests. Lots came out about him with Speaking Out

[Evil Vito]

Jericho/Ospreay was meh. Seems like Jericho will put over Sammy pretty soon and hopefully that’s it from him as a singles guy. They’re clearly running the “Jericho doesn’t have it anymore” angle

[Mr. Nerfect]

Seriously, it’s really hard to “like” AEW. All the “negative” stuff I sniffed out pretty early has all turned out to be true. TNA lost a lot of good will when it came to Vince Russo and its insane booking and misuse of talent. AEW is in its pretentious “we’re so great” attitude while being honestly pretty bad and being a giant sloppy shop.

[Evil Vito]

MJF: in the main event of the biggest show they’ve ever done

Darby: still prominently featured with Sting

Perry: pre-show match

Sammy: just standing at ringside

They’ve at least got the order of the pillars right

[Evil Vito]

The lantern for Bray :(

[Mr. Nerfect]

You can’t just assign people “Pillar” status. It’s a label ascribed to the backbone of a promotion. Well, one promotion in the 90s. If you did have to come up with something, MJF and CM Punk would be in there. They’ve easily be the two most important in-ring guys they’ve had. You can make arguments for early Jericho, early Mox and Cody too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sammy and Jungle Boy flat-out suck.

[Evil Vito]

Instant pop the second Mercedes was shown on screen. Because in a huge stadium like this probably 80% of the crowd are watching the screens instead of the ring.

[Bad News Gertner]

Total dud so far

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sasha Banks coming in will not lead to any backstage issues at all.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Don’t think Tony has the balls to fire Jungle Boy. He’ll just keep Sasha and Sammy separate, but it would be some grade-A schadenfreude if Jack Perry and Sammy Guevara — two of the “pillars” — are forced out of the promotion by bigger stars who don’t feel comfortable with their existence on the roster.

[Frank Drebin]

Enabler of sex pests. Lots came out about him with Speaking Out

Damn. Links? Never heard anything like that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Best thing coming out of this show is FTR remaining tag champs. Must be pretty confident there isn’t much to this accusation. Or at least anything that can be proven. Turn it into an angle where Michael Nakazawa dressed up and falsely accused Cash to keep him out of the match.

[Frank Drebin]

Sasha Banks coming in will not lead to any backstage issues at all.

Why do they keep showing her during random points? Like twice during the trios match.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Damn. Links? Never heard anything like that.

I’ve forgotten which wrestlers were involved exactly, but Ospreay came out and defended one of the accused UK guys (I’m pretty sure) and basically called the female wrestler making the claims a liar.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh that’s right, he also helped blacklist a girl who made complaints about one of his friends. Allegedly.

[Evil Vito]

Damn. Links? Never heard anything like that.

Don’t have a link anymore but I believe Ospreay (and Bea Priestly/Blair Davenport) both defended accused guys and also took measures to get some women blackballed from the UK scene

Thing was a mess. Like Ospreay in the ring but tough to invest in him

[Evil Vito]

LOL at one guy pushing MJF’s throne to the ring

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why do they keep showing her during random points? Like twice during the trios match.

They want you to know that she’s there, but have only drawn attention to it during a specific segment because they want to link it in your brain. It’s not very subtle nor good pro-wrestling.

[Evil Vito]

Acclaimed and Gunn winning is heartwarming and there was no reason to do that match a third time if they weren’t gonna win

But kinda hope their reign is short lived. House of Black rule

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tony Khan is right up there with worst bookers of all-time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Billy Gunn being center of one of the biggest pay-offs AEW has might be heartwarming, but it’s kind of sad too. Like R-Truth at one point being the most entertaining guys on roster. It betrays a problem.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You shouldn’t be going to a stadium with Billy Gunn in 2023.

[Evil Vito]

Hoping against hope that somehow one of these guys doesn’t go full heel because god damn I adore this team.

[Evil Vito]

:lol: sportsmanship chant

[Frank Drebin]

Acclaimed and Gunn winning is heartwarming and there was no reason to do that match a third time if they weren’t gonna win

But kinda hope their reign is short lived. House of Black rule

Malachi needs a top level singles run. Ive said it a thousand times that you have a super villain on your hands and have done nothing but stick him in trios matches. Unless he's somehow hurt he needs more.

[Frank Drebin]

Hoping against hope that somehow one of these guys doesn’t go full heel because god damn I adore this team.

If not for the ROH titles id say its run its course. Whatever happens here its not over over but something has to give.

[Evil Vito]

Bah gawd Cole working full here. Tombstoning Max on the table. That jezebel!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Most interesting thing is still the backstage mess.

[Evil Vito]

Adam deciding last minute to not cheat and then getting fucked over for it. Yes

[Evil Vito]

If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying

[Evil Vito]

Cole and MJF legit friends after all this! Amazing.

[Evil Vito]

Wembley II confirmed for next year . Lol wow

[screech]

Show was v fun, lots of good rasslin action

[Bad News Gertner]

I would give this show around 3.25/10

[Mr. Nerfect]

The MJF/Adam Cole stuff has been working in terms of small ratings bumps for them, but overall it feels like a pretty infantile story.

[xrodmuc316]

Sounds like I saved time and money.

[xrodmuc316]

That little cokehead if talking about Fight Forever in the presser lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wembley II is not going to sell on the back of it just being wrestling in Wembley. Well, maybe there will be hopes that AEW will have its shit together for the second one. But we’ll see what shape they’re in in a year’s time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sounds like I saved time and money.

Write it off on tax, because sitting through this product is work.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Pretty good.

Missed Punk vs Joe. Don’t care, Punk is shit.

Joined in towards the end of Kenny and friends and Takeshita and friends. Didn’t care, wasted Omega putting him in a multi man match.

Bucks v FTR was pretty good.

Stadium Stampede was fine I suppose. A waste of some big names though and these multi man matches just to get everyone on the card are all a bit samey now.

Coffin match was good, Sting with his Metallica WCW theme was cool. Swerve is really good and I’d like to see him in a bigger program. I think him vs Omega would be so good.

Brauds match was fine. Saraya is shit. Shame Hayter’s injured. Shida should’ve retained.

Missed most of Jericho vs Ospreay but glad Ospreay won. He seems good every time I’ve seen him.

Trios was fine, ending was obvious and glad for my man Billy Gunn. Malakai Black needs to move on to be a bigger deal now though. He should be AEW’s god level bad guy. Have him murder Punk in a feud and then go after the world title. Black VS MJF would be something different and fresh, while feeling like a big deal.

MJF is so good. This whole angle has actually made Adam Cole somewhat bearable. Including that Roddy Strong guy though is a bad decision, he’s one of the worst actors I’ve seen and just isn’t needed. Really glad they hinted at both turning but neither did, the story has legs in it yet.

[Mr. Nerfect]

That little cokehead if talking about Fight Forever in the presser lol

With how long it took to develop the game, and how quickly it fizzled, it’s probably the most ironic name for a wrestling game ever.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

On the whole it’s a lot of the same criticisms I’ve always had for AEW. Cut down the roster a bit, lose about 75% of the titles they have, and stop trying to cram so many people onto the card by using multi man matches.

But the stuff they get right they do really well.

[xrodmuc316]

Tiny Khan talks just like Donald Trump. Everything is GREAT and AMAZING and BIGGEST and BEST.

I hate that dude lol

[screech]

I have enjoyed most Roderick Strong matches but I'm not sure I liked him in anything else. Just keep him rasslin and avoid putting him elsewhere lol

[slik]

Good and fun show.

Did not care for Moxley's nonsense but enjoyed the second half of the show in particular. MJF/Adam were the highlight for me but also loved the coffin match and (surprisingly) Jericho vs Ospreay.

[slik]

Why do they keep showing her during random points? Like twice during the trios match.

Everybody loves The Acclaimed

[slik]

Punk won and The Elite lost back to back, all is well

[slik]

except for Tony Khan for leaving off Ricky Starks

[slik]

would have cut the omega and bucks matches and had Starks wrestle instead

[Mr. Nerfect]

The Elite think they are nice, humble guys “putting over” other guys at WankerMania. It’s all a political play. Mox and Jericho did the same thing.

[Evil Vito]

Tony confirmed a WrestleDream PPV for October 1st in Seattle. Apparently another NJPW influenced PPV.

Definitely seems the rumors about Warner wanting monthly PPVs is true.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tony Khan needs more money too. Hence why he charges for ROH and the existence of Collision at all.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s not like they use the scant number of PPVs to actually build. But more will probably make everything feel even more exhausted.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WrestleDream isn’t a horrible name for a Japanese PPV, but I feel like I’ve heard it before somewhere.

[Mr. Nerfect]

AEW’s New Japan integration has largely sucked so far. Look forward to more Japanese guys coming out as Excalibur screams about them as if you care.

[xrodmuc316]

The Elite think they are nice, humble guys “putting over” other guys at WankerMania. It’s all a political play. Mox and Jericho did the same thing.

Elite did it because they got monster new contracts, getting paid buckets of cash to play wrestler with their friends, and that is all that matters to them.
Mox didnt put over anybody, sounds like he just bled like always, and that is all that matters to him.
Jericho is a vampire, even with the loss Jericho got the rub, and that is all that matters to him.

[xrodmuc316]

SOOO AEW is just straight lying about their attendance? They are becoming more and more what they despised.

https://i.ibb.co/kKqsBPR/1693174982418057.jpg

[slik]

SOOO AEW is just straight lying about their attendance? They are becoming more and more what they despised.

https://i.ibb.co/kKqsBPR/1693174982418057.jpg

I think Wembley can seat 90k for football/soccer so that looks about right for 81k, guessing this might have been during kick off too when people were still filing in

[weather vane]

AEW THE BEST

[xrodmuc316]

I think Wembley can seat 90k for football/soccer so that looks about right for 81k, guessing this might have been during kick off too when people were still filing in

That is the main event, many empty seats.

[Sting Fan]

Just finished watching, really enjoyable show but the main event ran a little long for me. The shenanigans got a bit tired near the end but the idea of them out heeling one another was a fun change of pace and the crowd seemed to love it.

Stings entrance and just the match in general was great. Stadium stampede was fun. Loved OC going over, the Mox skewers spot got an actual reaction from me on the couch.

Punk stuff felt flat because there was no way he was losing. FTR vs. Bucks didnt feel like there best outing but still very high quality.

Overall very enjoyable but I wouldn't say it was the best AEW ppv. PPVs just feel long now, I think I'm getting old.

[slik]

Meanwhile at NWA 75:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Somebody please, call his momma <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NWA75?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NWA75</a> <a href="https://t.co/8qa79nhcn3">pic.twitter.com/8qa79nhcn3</a></p>&mdash; s e t h (@futurafreesky) <a href="https://twitter.com/futurafreesky/status/1695990720702607680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 28, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Sting Fan]

Meanwhile at NWA 75:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Somebody please, call his momma <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NWA75?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NWA75</a> <a href="https://t.co/8qa79nhcn3">pic.twitter.com/8qa79nhcn3</a></p>&mdash; s e t h (@futurafreesky) <a href="https://twitter.com/futurafreesky/status/1695990720702607680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 28, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yikes... Not sure who you want to win that one for the good of your company tbh.

[Tom Guycott]

The Elite think they are nice, humble guys “putting over” other guys at WankerMania. It’s all a political play. Mox and Jericho did the same thing.

Elite did it because they got monster new contracts, getting paid buckets of cash to play wrestler with their friends, and that is all that matters to them.
Mox didnt put over anybody, sounds like he just bled like always, and that is all that matters to him.
Jericho is a vampire, even with the loss Jericho got the rub, and that is all that matters to him.

All of this.

Also, short aside about the Punk/Perry stuff - funny how folks' hate boner for CM Punk is preventing them from seeing that Jack wanted to do take an unneccessary risk, was told no, and then be made out to be "the reasonable one" for referring to the dumb shit he wanted to do. Glass sounds like no big deal, but that one Goldberg incident would be a thing people barely remember about late-stage WCW if it weren't for the fact that he non-exaggeratedly almost bled to death from something as simple as punching a car window out. Made for a "moment" on TV, and it didn't look stupid and bad in the "moment", but again, that one thing could have literally killed the man, and he could have achieved the same end doing something else to express anger on TV for those few seconds. And even after, if a guy made a mission statement of a very antagonistic "if you have a problem with me, come see me", and then you proceed to go see him, I'm not understanding how this makes him "a baby". He put that out front and folks are coming to him to test the theory.

An overall problem bigger than those two, however, is that it's going to take one very avoidable injury to derail the gravy train. Surprisingly, it wasn't Matt Hardy's mid-match concussion where they continued, or the sloppy matches with unfortunately broken ladders or tables (and I mean broken tables in the sense that the legs don't work right for placement co-operation). Not even counting the very stupid shit like random plywood boards with barbed wire stapled to it, because at least chairs or tables are a thing that would otherwise exist in the world instead of being under the ring specifically for a contrived spot in one match.

My point is: the bill comes due.

Someone is going to get brain damaged, Droz'd, or unfortunately killed, and then there will be the "why didn't somebody try to stop them from [x fucked up spot]??" The answer will either be CM Punk tried to, but we don't like him, or that one of the other vets around like Jim Ross suggested they do otherwise, but we just don't listen to the old guy because we're young and invincible and more exiting than they ever were.

Meanwhile at NWA 75:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Somebody please, call his momma <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NWA75?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NWA75</a> <a href="https://t.co/8qa79nhcn3">pic.twitter.com/8qa79nhcn3</a></p>&mdash; s e t h (@futurafreesky) <a href="https://twitter.com/futurafreesky/status/1695990720702607680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 28, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

I don't specifically mean Tyrus and EC3, but kinda... I mean NWA in general. They went from "MUST SEE" to "Huh? They're still around??" in a very short timeframe. And the backlash about Tyrus being champion felt less like heel heat and more like a final straw.

[xrodmuc316]

I dont remember Wrestlemania 3 crowd looking like this...

https://i.ibb.co/Z8j5Kkf/1693170352498176.png

Black Tarps and Empty Seats all over, but totally 81,000 people :roll:

For comparison:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjJjOWViYzEtODExYS00ZTAwLTgwOTgtODczY2UzNjc0ZWY0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjk4MzkyMzY@._V1_.jpg

[Sting Fan]

Oh I forgot to add, I really didn’t enjoy Juice Robertson when he first came to AEW but he’s really growing on me.

The Guns look more credible beside him and Jay, overall quite like the group despite myself.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I dont remember Wrestlemania 3 crowd looking like this...

https://i.ibb.co/Z8j5Kkf/1693170352498176.png

Black Tarps and Empty Seats all over, but totally 81,000 people :roll:

For comparison:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjJjOWViYzEtODExYS00ZTAwLTgwOTgtODczY2UzNjc0ZWY0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjk4MzkyMzY@._V1_.jpg

Looks like a lot of tickets didn’t get picked up on the secondary market and/or some comps weren’t collected on.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Can we talk about how Jack Perry is CM Punk’s Jungle Boy?

[Tom Guycott]

Oh I forgot to add, I really didn’t enjoy Juice Robertson when he first came to AEW but he’s really growing on me.



Being completely fair, he's come off as a scrub for quite awhile before "finding himself" in Japan. This is including his very forgettable NXT run, which culminated with him "going on strike" (kayfabe), and getting squashed by the then debuting Sami Callihan. Being WWE developmental, of course, neither of the two used their recognized names.

He toiled in the indies and RoH for awhile, but then veered toward Japan. Ironically, the same could be said for his partner in Jay White, as Jay was pretty bland in RoH before he ended up becoming groomed to become the NJPW heir apparent gaijin heel. And while what makes Jay... well, King Switch hasn't exactly translated stateside much as of yet, Juice Robinson is oozing that intangible that was missing from him in Connecticut (by way of Florida) about a decade previous.

[Frank Drebin]

Show overall was "fine". This gave me WWE in Saudi Arabia vibes. A "big" show where they brought out a couple of extra flips, kicking out of finishers and some title changes but nothing major happened. What will this show be remembered for? First time overseas? Crowd size? Probably nothing to do with anything that actually happened on it. Pretty forgettable but there wasn't anything terrible about it.

We have to remember it wasn't until a matter of months ago that this was announced so its not like this show had been in the long term plans. Kudos for pulling it off and NOW putting it as a thing in long term plans. Ultimately we can judge it after All Out when we see how they used two PPVs in such close proximity to each other.

Also, what Tom Guycott said about the Punk/Perry incident. Although I wish it wasn't always Punk involved, Tony Khan never gets involved like this because he wants to be friends with everyone. Say what you want about Vince, but he squashes acting out like Perry is doing or has some stooge like a Laurenitis do it for him. Either way, its well known who's in charge and he isn't to be fucked with. We haven't seen that in AEW and someone has to be that dick as TG pointed out in his post.

[Rammsteinmad]

This was a great show! Really, I'm not an "AEW guy" or anything, but this show was really enjoyable. I think the crowd being super hot for it really adds so much to an event. The crowd were on fire, and honestly, it just looked amazing to see an American promotion which isn't WWE, perform to such a huge audience. It really gave it a "big" feel, and gives AEW a level we've not seen in a secondary promotion since the WCW days.

Yeah, the overabundance of multi-man matches and endless kick-outs etc does wear a bit thin, but I didn't really mind all that much. Just got to remember that this ISN'T WWE, and so just enjoy the differences.

It's weird, that wrestling may not be getting the "ratings" it used to (if ratings even exist/matter) anymore, but it honestly feels like we're in another boom period for wrestling, we just never realised it.

Well done AEW. Let's hope they can continue building upon each success.

[Stu Hart]

Some people will just hate AEW for the sake of it. AEW put on a better show than anyone expected.

The main event storytelling was absolute gold- it got me tearing up. Loved it!

Everything MJF says he is..he is!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Show overall was "fine". This gave me WWE in Saudi Arabia vibes. A "big" show where they brought out a couple of extra flips, kicking out of finishers and some title changes but nothing major happened. What will this show be remembered for? First time overseas? Crowd size? Probably nothing to do with anything that actually happened on it. Pretty forgettable but there wasn't anything terrible about it.

We have to remember it wasn't until a matter of months ago that this was announced so its not like this show had been in the long term plans. Kudos for pulling it off and NOW putting it as a thing in long term plans. Ultimately we can judge it after All Out when we see how they used two PPVs in such close proximity to each other.

Also, what Tom Guycott said about the Punk/Perry incident. Although I wish it wasn't always Punk involved, Tony Khan never gets involved like this because he wants to be friends with everyone. Say what you want about Vince, but he squashes acting out like Perry is doing or has some stooge like a Laurenitis do it for him. Either way, its well known who's in charge and he isn't to be fucked with. We haven't seen that in AEW and someone has to be that dick as TG pointed out in his post.

It’s going to be remembered for the skewered narratives and myths around it. The show itself was inconsequential. It’s already forgotten. But we’ll hear Dave Meltzer talk about what a great success this was forever and a day.

[#1-norm-fan]

Just watched a video on YouTube of all the entrances and aesthetically, the show looked pretty fucking great. Also, I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before but AEW kinda kills it when it comes to entrance music. Even the beginning of the Bucks’ theme was some great mid-2000s Smackdown cheesiness.

[GD]

https://i.redd.it/08x3ax4omwkb1.jpg

[xrodmuc316]

Seriously though, how can there be all these pictures during different matches where there are TONS of empty seats and many sections tarped???

We have all called bullshit on WWE's attendance claims for years, but we are just supposed to ignore crowd pictures from the show that were coming out in real time?

[Mr. Nerfect]

So much can be done to fudge numbers. And the dirt sheets are on Tony Khan’s side. No one is going to scrutinize what they consider to be an important achievement.

[Sting Fan]

Being completely fair, he's come off as a scrub for quite awhile before "finding himself" in Japan. This is including his very forgettable NXT run, which culminated with him "going on strike" (kayfabe), and getting squashed by the then debuting Sami Callihan. Being WWE developmental, of course, neither of the two used their recognized names.

He toiled in the indies and RoH for awhile, but then veered toward Japan. Ironically, the same could be said for his partner in Jay White, as Jay was pretty bland in RoH before he ended up becoming groomed to become the NJPW heir apparent gaijin heel. And while what makes Jay... well, King Switch hasn't exactly translated stateside much as of yet, Juice Robinson is oozing that intangible that was missing from him in Connecticut (by way of Florida) about a decade previous.

Interesting background on Juice, I have no context for him as I havent seen his work anywhere else but coming into AEW I wasnt a fan. The amount hes grown on me kinda snuck up on me the last week or so.

Im biased around Jay as hes a Kiwi, love his look, love his attitude. Just feels like a main guy to me despite not really being presented in that way until the last month or so.

Some people have a main character energy and I feel that way around Jay.

[Sting Fan]

As for the Punk vs. Perry stuff. Perry having a sulk about the real glass vs. fake glass stuff does not cast him in a good light. Now it seems hes openly mocking Punk about it thats not a god look either.

Its a shame its Punk in it again but he doesn't sound like hes done a whole lot wrong here this time based on whats getting out.

If TK doesnt want to take control of this stuff he needs to let someone else do it. Give Daniels more power or something then back him up to draw a line in the sand.

[Frank Drebin]

Backstage drama is good for AEW according to TK. In other words: "I have no spine and want to keep awkwardly hugging as many people as I can at media scrums. Thanks guys!"

[xrodmuc316]

Interesting background on Juice, I have no context for him as I havent seen his work anywhere else but coming into AEW I wasnt a fan. The amount hes grown on me kinda snuck up on me the last week or so.

Im biased around Jay as hes a Kiwi, love his look, love his attitude. Just feels like a main guy to me despite not really being presented in that way until the last month or so.

Some people have a main character energy and I feel that way around Jay.

He was actually Kevin Owens first opponent for his NXT debut match.

[xrodmuc316]

yg16Zv_DLtA

[Splaya]

How are they going to book Collision for Saturday night if they suspended the guy who does a lot of the booking for the show?

hahahaha

[Sepholio]

As for the Punk vs. Perry stuff. Perry having a sulk about the real glass vs. fake glass stuff does not cast him in a good light. Now it seems hes openly mocking Punk about it thats not a god look either.

Its a shame its Punk in it again but he doesn't sound like hes done a whole lot wrong here this time based on whats getting out.

If TK doesnt want to take control of this stuff he needs to let someone else do it. Give Daniels more power or something then back him up to draw a line in the sand.

So let me get this straight. Punk stops Perry from doing a glass spot, then Punk runs to the sheets with the story about it even though he whines like a bitch whenever someone else goes to the sheets. Perry is annoyed by Punks hypocritical nonsense and trying to embarass him via the sheets, so he throws out a harmless one liner that Punk overreacts to (because he's the softest man alive) and starts shit backstage again. And somehow you find Perry to be the problematic one? LOLOLOL, k.

[Vastardikai]

As for the Punk vs. Perry stuff. Perry having a sulk about the real glass vs. fake glass stuff does not cast him in a good light. Now it seems hes openly mocking Punk about it thats not a god look either.

Its a shame its Punk in it again but he doesn't sound like hes done a whole lot wrong here this time based on whats getting out.

If TK doesnt want to take control of this stuff he needs to let someone else do it. Give Daniels more power or something then back him up to draw a line in the sand.

Daniels is absolutely shit at being head of talent relations. Exhibit A: where was he in Brawl Out?

[Sepholio]

I don't even like Perry, and he shouldnt have taken the verbal shot at Punk. He should have just let it go because everyone knows Punk is a crybaby and will REEEEEEE out about everything. But to act like Perry is the problem here is just stupid at this point. There is one common denominator in all of these issues and it's CM Punk. To still be oblivious to him being the issue at this point is absolutely laughable.

The real problem is TK being such a mark for Punk that he won't manage his company because he's afraid his favoritest bestest buddy will get butthurt and quit like he threatened to before his match at All In.

[Sepholio]

Daniels is absolutely shit at being head of talent relations. Exhibit A: where was he in Brawl Out?

At the Brawl? That's literally why Punk doesn't want him at Collision lol.

[GD]

Imagine Cena kicking out Ross or Laurinaitis for doing their job.

[Ben Rodrigues]

It's interesting reading anti-CM Punk comments not just on this forum but across social media. While initially jarring as its a view I don't resonate with, I quickly remember that the split crowd that I see on television every week is also made up of people here.

CM Punk has given the wrestling world so many incredible moments over the years that seems to be forgotten/overlooked because he called out wrestlers who simply aren't and have never been draws. I don't really get why people would side with the Young Bucks or Jungle Boy over CM Punk (who seems to constantly get needled). In some ways it reminds me of Bret vs Shawn.

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?

[Splaya]

Yes. While your point is valid about drawing capability, and while both are adults by age, Punk is a "veteran" of the business and should have a thick skin. You have already been suspended for a long period because of fighting and because someone says something on TV, you feel the need to not just confront them, but fight them. Nah. Sorry. I'm a big fan of his but he needs to shut the fuck, grow up, and be the leader, not the instigator.

[Vastardikai]

It's interesting reading anti-CM Punk comments not just on this forum but across social media. While initially jarring as its a view I don't resonate with, I quickly remember that the split crowd that I see on television every week is also made up of people here.

CM Punk has given the wrestling world so many incredible moments over the years that seems to be forgotten/overlooked because he called out wrestlers who simply aren't and have never been draws. I don't really get why people would side with the Young Bucks or Jungle Boy over CM Punk (who seems to constantly get needled). In some ways it reminds me of Bret vs Shawn.

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?

More than that. What about the next big name that comes along? They see how this locker room acts and, suddenly, the WWE's deal isn't so bad.

Whether or not Mercedes signs is the next one to watch. Considering how AEW treats outsiders to their Kliq (see: Rosa, Thunder; Deeb, Serena; Fisto, Lu) and one who is a much bigger star than even Saraya was at one point. Also, how of all the major Women's free agents available, only Britt's friends were brought in for more than a one off.

[Frank Drebin]

There's a lot we just won't know about who did what so everyone is free to take a side based on if they like Punk or not.

I'm on team Punk. The adult in the room who seems to be the only one (including TK) who is trying to put out a product that is best for the promotion regardless of whether people like him for putting his foot down or not.

If Perry wants to bleed every week like Mox, ship him off to Dynamite or GCW.

[xrodmuc316]

So let me get this straight. Punk stops Perry from doing a glass spot, then Punk runs to the sheets with the story about it even though he whines like a bitch whenever someone else goes to the sheets. Perry is annoyed by Punks hypocritical nonsense and trying to embarass him via the sheets, so he throws out a harmless one liner that Punk overreacts to (because he's the softest man alive) and starts shit backstage again. And somehow you find Perry to be the problematic one? LOLOLOL, k.

Ding
Ding
Ding

[xrodmuc316]

It's interesting reading anti-CM Punk comments not just on this forum but across social media. While initially jarring as its a view I don't resonate with, I quickly remember that the split crowd that I see on television every week is also made up of people here.

CM Punk has given the wrestling world so many incredible moments over the years that seems to be forgotten/overlooked because he called out wrestlers who simply aren't and have never been draws. I don't really get why people would side with the Young Bucks or Jungle Boy over CM Punk (who seems to constantly get needled). In some ways it reminds me of Bret vs Shawn.

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?

Yeah like when Shawn refused to do the job for Bret? Oh wait, that would make Punk the Shawn, not the Bret. So Hangman is the Bret?

Serious answer to your last question is yes. AEW was better without him. What exactly has he done since he came back?

1. Undermined the World Championship
2. Leak shit to the dirtsheets
3. Got that "banned things" list out everybody laughed at
4. Had a bunch of self jerkoff matches with FTR
5. Only works with his friends (The Klique much)?
6. Undermined the office
7. Verbally dressing down extras
8. Given nobody the rub
9. Messed with other wrestlers booking
10. Got a jumping ovation from Mark owner

[Sepholio]

There's a lot we just won't know about who did what so everyone is free to take a side based on if they like Punk or not

There is a lot we don't know. But there is one thing we do know: the one common denominator in all of the drama is CM Punk. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[Sepholio]

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?

It would make no difference to the product. There would just be far less drama embarassing the company as a whole.

[Stu Hart]

a lot of you complaining about Tony Khan having a light hand with Punk...did you whine about how Vince let Shawn Michaels (and friends) do much worse, on and off tv?

[Splaya]

Tpww forums wasn't around during the 90's so now I didn't have the chance to whine. I also wasn't available to the knowledge I have of the business when I was 12 years old.


So now I didn't whine.

[Frank Drebin]

There is a lot we don't know. But there is one thing we do know: the one common denominator in all of the drama is CM Punk. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

SOMEONE has to be involved from top to bottom to get the product right. Punk has basically been left in charge of Collision because TK isn't a real boss. Punk may be being sensitive about it but its his reputation that's on the line with that show and all of AEW to some extent. He takes certain things way too seriously but I can understand why someone in that position without much of a support system would freak out at every little transgression.

[GD]

SI confirmed the suspensions.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrandioseConsiderateHaddock-max-1mb.gif

[XL]

Truth is, Punk is imitating what he’s seen before in the big corporate wrestling companies. You might say he’s lived ling enough to see himself become the villain. Ultimately this is Vince’s fault. Obviously.

[XL]

Obviously joking there.

I’m one of Punk’s biggest fans and I even I can look at the optics and see he’s not coming off well here. You can say he’s just passionate about the product or he’s being the only adult in the room (btw, resulting to violence every time somebody rubs you the wrong way is not very adult) but his actions are neither a good look for him or AEW as a whole.

[Mr. Nerfect]

SOMEONE has to be involved from top to bottom to get the product right. Punk has basically been left in charge of Collision because TK isn't a real boss. Punk may be being sensitive about it but its his reputation that's on the line with that show and all of AEW to some extent. He takes certain things way too seriously but I can understand why someone in that position without much of a support system would freak out at every little transgression.

This is pretty much bang on. Punk takes it seriously, but he also wants AEW to make money so he can be worth the money he’s making. He’s being openly mocked by wrestlers who don’t understand how to do that and don’t have much interest in doing that.

[xrodmuc316]

a lot of you complaining about Tony Khan having a light hand with Punk...did you whine about how Vince let Shawn Michaels (and friends) do much worse, on and off tv?

"But WWE" is not now, nor has it ever been a good argument. You are just excusing anything that happens. What if somebody comes out and says Tony Khan raped them? Will you say it is ok, but Vince McMahon was accused or raping someone as well?

The truth is there are lots of people who hated Shawn and Vince at the time. The problem with that however is that in retrospect, they used it properly. Shawn was the top heel at that point mostly because of that whole situation with Bret, and Vince used it to become such an effective heel that he was able to eventually get both Shawn and Bret back as babyfaces. He put them both over at Wrestlemania.

All this Punk shit has nothing to build to. He doesn't even let people he dislikes on Collision, so he certainly isnt working with them. They all work on guaranteed contracts so they are getting paid no matter what, so what is the incentive? The boss clearly showed that he is not going to fire anybody for really any reason.

I think in their history they have publicly fired 2 people, Jimmy Havoc and whatever spanish announcer was doing an offensive Japanese impression. Other than that, he just puts them away for a bit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The way Shawn Michaels acted is pretty openly derided too.

[Stu Hart]

"But WWE" is not now, nor has it ever been a good argument. You are just excusing anything that happens. What if somebody comes out and says Tony Khan raped them? Will you say it is ok, but Vince McMahon was accused or raping someone as well?

The truth is there are lots of people who hated Shawn and Vince at the time. The problem with that however is that in retrospect, they used it properly. Shawn was the top heel at that point mostly because of that whole situation with Bret, and Vince used it to become such an effective heel that he was able to eventually get both Shawn and Bret back as babyfaces. He put them both over at Wrestlemania.

All this Punk shit has nothing to build to. He doesn't even let people he dislikes on Collision, so he certainly isnt working with them. They all work on guaranteed contracts so they are getting paid no matter what, so what is the incentive? The boss clearly showed that he is not going to fire anybody for really any reason.

I think in their history they have publicly fired 2 people, Jimmy Havoc and whatever spanish announcer was doing an offensive Japanese impression. Other than that, he just puts them away for a bit.

Firstly, the thing about rape is just reaching and you know that, we are not talking about out and out crimes here.

Your next paragraph about Shawn being a top heel..when and for how long? Shawn Michaels was never the draw Bret was, never mind Austin or anyone else. If anything Shawn was trying to run Rocky out of the business. Shawn Michaels did not matter to WWF as much as Punk matters to AEW.

I agree with you about Punk being allowed to control who is at collision - its never a good thing for a worker to have that much control. I read a good take about Punk being able to sue AEW because he was attacked by EVPs of the company. That is a very real legality.

My point was that Shawn Michaels and his Kliq did far worse to WWF than Punk has done to AEW - if anything its those childish fuckers , the elit and jungle boy.

[Sepholio]

Saying Shawn wasn't the draw Bret was immediately discredits you. Bret was a better wrestler, sure. But Shawn was also pretty damn good and had things Bret didn't, like charisma and showmanship.

Blaming the elite here is also stupid. How many stories have you heard about them sending people home? Outside of Punk, how many stories are there about them having nonstop confrontations with people backstage? Speaking of the elite, and also in reference to us not talking about out and out crimes here, didn't they just put over Punks besties, and specifically, Cash "I'll pull a strap on a buster" Wheeler?

[xrodmuc316]

Yes, it was hyperbole just to show the but WWE is not a good argument.

I never claimed Shawn was the draw Bret was. Neither of those guys were ever on top at a peak time. Shawn was the top heel because of the screwjob. It was a brief time, about 5 months, but they leaned into it, which was my point, they used it.

Shawn was far more important to WWE than Punk is to AEW. Just the fact that he was in 4 Wrestlemania main events proves that. Has Punk even main evented 4 AEW PPVs yet?

Again, just because Shawn was worse doesn't excuse CM Punk.

And I certainly am not forgiving any of those guys, Elite, Jack Perry, Christopher Daniels, Ryan Nemeth, etc. The difference is they all clashed with just one guy. If Sammy Guevara got into it with Jack Perry, the same way he did with Andrade and Eddie Kingston, well I would say the pattern is with Sammy Guevara being the asshole.

[Sepholio]

Yeah pretty sure we gave Sammy the business too when he was in the center of all the nonsense, starting with him proposing in the ring and then it being called off a few months later because he was supposedly cheating on her with Tay, who he then began working with on air.

[Sepholio]

lol Punk got into it with Miro at All In too and was asking him if he wanted to take things outside to settle it.

[xrodmuc316]

lol Punk got into it with Miro at All In too and was asking him if he wanted to take things outside to settle it.

There is ZERO chance that happened lol. Miro would kill him :lol:

[Frank Drebin]

Obviously joking there.

I’m one of Punk’s biggest fans and I even I can look at the optics and see he’s not coming off well here. You can say he’s just passionate about the product or he’s being the only adult in the room (btw, resulting to violence every time somebody rubs you the wrong way is not very adult) but his actions are neither a good look for him or AEW as a whole.

He's not coming off well, no. It sounds like he's handling things like an alcoholic promoter 30 years ago. You're right in that IF thats what happened it isn't professional but again, we are hearing 3rd hand what might have happened so we have to take everything being said with a grain of salt. However, if TK is allowing him to do this and asking people nicely to not do stupid shit isn't working.....

Saying Shawn wasn't the draw Bret was immediately discredits you. Bret was a better wrestler, sure. But Shawn was also pretty damn good and had things Bret didn't, like charisma and showmanship.

Blaming the elite here is also stupid. How many stories have you heard about them sending people home? Outside of Punk, how many stories are there about them having nonstop confrontations with people backstage? Speaking of the elite, and also in reference to us not talking about out and out crimes here, didn't they just put over Punks besties, and specifically, Cash "I'll pull a strap on a buster" Wheeler?

The Elite don't send people home because they just play with the people they want to play with and really don't care about anything outside of that.

lol Punk got into it with Miro at All In too and was asking him if he wanted to take things outside to settle it.

Sounds like its much ado about nothing. That being said: He's making this really hard for me.....

[Frank Drebin]

Id also like to point out that this Punk/Perry thing started because Perry wanted to do some spotbwith real glass and everyone told him no. Not just Punk. Then they do a spot at all out with the windshield. Did Hook not have lacerations all over his arm? Wasn't Perry told no because real glass is unsafe?

Thanks guys.

[weather vane]

CM Punk is the biggest dork loser ever. Fucking cry baby. Love him.

[xrodmuc316]

Reports coming out that during the scuffle some monitors fell onto Tiny Khan. This is my favorite thing ever :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Tom Guycott]

Interesting background on Juice, I have no context for him as I havent seen his work anywhere else but coming into AEW I wasnt a fan. The amount hes grown on me kinda snuck up on me the last week or so.

Im biased around Jay as hes a Kiwi, love his look, love his attitude. Just feels like a main guy to me despite not really being presented in that way until the last month or so.

Some people have a main character energy and I feel that way around Jay.

It is sometimes interesting to be a casual witness.

What I mean is this: it's fine for folks to only be aware of AJ Styles as a thing in WWE. He is who and what he is on the roster and has been surprisingly treated as a star since showing up in spite of his relative size in "the land of the giants" (though, part of that is fanfare around the fact that he did come in the company to begin with, but let's ride past that right now for the larger point). It is quite another to have seen AJ become the guy he is now from aaaaaaallll the way back in late stage WCW where he was one half of a high spot-centric tag team with a dude named Air Paris wearing flight suit coveralls and aviator sunglasses (Air Raid). Watching him grow, for better or worse, in various companies, casually in the background for the last couple of decades puts a different spin on exactly how far he has come when not just distilled to being a guy who needed to sojurn to Japan to wash the TNA stink off of him so that WWE would bother taking a chance.

It's one of the reasons why I admit that I was in the minority about Keith Lee in that he was pretty over for a guy who - to me - was just one of two generic, big, former football players who were a tag team in RoH (the other was Shane Taylor, who is STILL there under the new regime. I'm surprised they haven't made some sort of cross promotional angle about this... but I guess I shouldn't be). It was a roller coaster watching the guy popularly known as EC3 go from a WWE developmental nobody to a built and pushed star in TNA, go BACK to WWE developmental as that star, and then get all the star beaten out of him. Or watching some lowly foreign nobody be given a gimmick where he's cosplaying as Kato from The Green Hornet, and then go on to shed that and basically become New Japan's John Cena.

We get to see folks who surely has something nobody capitalizes on. We get to see talentless shitheads pushed to the moon to no avail. But somewhere between that, we get to see a guy like Steve Austin go from WCW midcarder and/or tag teamer extrordinare to ECW loudmouth to the abysmal Ringmaster to the serendipity that brought forth "Austin 3:16". We get to track Chris Jericho's trajectory from one of the most frustratingly underutilized potential talents in WCW all the way to now being one of the most frustratingly overutilized has-beens in AEW trying to sadly eek out more glory days that existed between these two points. And in between all that, we get to see some folks who we bank on being a surefire, can't miss star be fucked over or "dumb themselves out of position", or conversely, see someone we had no expectation for grow into a talent that they seem like they had no possibility at ever becoming.

It's part meta, but it's all wrestling.

[Ben Rodrigues]

When did the narrative change for Punk?

In WWE he was praised for being anti-establishment and lauded for standing up for himself against the machine. Similar characteristics on camera got Austin over as the biggest star in the industry.

In AEW he does the press conference and stands up for himself, defends himself and appears to be the same person. Now he is treated like a pariah by half the audience. Is it primarily more because of who he upset?

[Tom Guycott]

It's interesting reading anti-CM Punk comments not just on this forum but across social media. While initially jarring as its a view I don't resonate with, I quickly remember that the split crowd that I see on television every week is also made up of people here.

CM Punk has given the wrestling world so many incredible moments over the years that seems to be forgotten/overlooked because he called out wrestlers who simply aren't and have never been draws. I don't really get why people would side with the Young Bucks or Jungle Boy over CM Punk (who seems to constantly get needled). In some ways it reminds me of Bret vs Shawn.

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?

Yes. While your point is valid about drawing capability, and while both are adults by age, Punk is a "veteran" of the business and should have a thick skin. You have already been suspended for a long period because of fighting and because someone says something on TV, you feel the need to not just confront them, but fight them. Nah. Sorry. I'm a big fan of his but he needs to shut the fuck, grow up, and be the leader, not the instigator.

There's a lot we just won't know about who did what so everyone is free to take a side based on if they like Punk or not.

I'm on team Punk. The adult in the room who seems to be the only one (including TK) who is trying to put out a product that is best for the promotion regardless of whether people like him for putting his foot down or not.

If Perry wants to bleed every week like Mox, ship him off to Dynamite or GCW.

Obviously joking there.

I’m one of Punk’s biggest fans and I even I can look at the optics and see he’s not coming off well here. You can say he’s just passionate about the product or he’s being the only adult in the room (btw, resulting to violence every time somebody rubs you the wrong way is not very adult) but his actions are neither a good look for him or AEW as a whole.

This is pretty much bang on. Punk takes it seriously, but he also wants AEW to make money so he can be worth the money he’s making. He’s being openly mocked by wrestlers who don’t understand how to do that and don’t have much interest in doing that.

One - I hate to use the Vinceism here, but "perception is reality, pal!" If Punk has "thick skin", the spin will be that he's a bitch that's all talk. If he, you know, repeatedly backs up what he says about being disrespected or come see me, and then THE PEOPLE HE ENDS UP FIGHTING ARE THE ONES WHO CAME TO SEE HIM, then this makes him a hothead and a locker room cancer. We all know how it would play out, and there is no winning for him here. People who dislike him are going to find a way to dislike him even if he brought cookies for everyone every week. "What an asshole, he didn't bring any oatmeal raisin!"

Seems to me like one particular side is trying to drive him away either though sheer annoyance or sullied reputation so they can go back to being a place where all the indy friends can make a boatload of money while getting fellated by the small audience that just wants to see ANYTHING not WWE or watch people do the same flips and comedy spots for about a year until it bores them then they go start watching something else.

Two - The Bret vs. Shawn argument isn't a good comparison anymore, because to the audience at large for AEW, Bret was an overrated whiny bitch and Shawn did no wrong especially now that he's a repentant, reformed,born-again good boy. That absoves him of all the drugs and asshattery he was doing in the timeframe in queston. There's a lot of retconning of context. It's why we get condecending comments like "masturbatory Bret Hart fantasies" about actual good matches or the Bucks waxing poetic about how Shawn and The Hardy Boyz inspired them. Its weirdly like if someone took a historical event like Pearl Harbor, and over time, ran with the conclusion that Hawaii deserved to be bombed because something something US bad instead of the actual context of Japan striking first.

There is a lot we don't know. But there is one thing we do know: the one common denominator in all of the drama is CM Punk. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

There's a difference between being an arsonist, and holding accelerant while having others run towards you with lit cigarettes and/or blowtorches.

If someone hears the adage "don't poke the bear", so they INSIST they go up to the bear and poke it not even with a large stick but with their finger, and said bear takes a big wet bite out, I still fail to see how any of this is the bear's fault. I wouldn't consider the bear to be a bully. I wouldn't understand how it is that the bear deserves to be drug out in the streets and shot. I would be more aligned with the stupid games/stupid prizes ethos here.

[Tom Guycott]

When did the narrative change for Punk?

In WWE he was praised for being anti-establishment and lauded for standing up for himself against the machine. Similar characteristics on camera got Austin over as the biggest star in the industry.

In AEW he does the press conference and stands up for himself, defends himself and appears to be the same person. Now he is treated like a pariah by half the audience. Is it primarily more because of who he upset?

This. WWE is the evil empire. But our boys?!? How DARE he say anything bad!

See one of the previous statmets I just made about how the Bret/Shawn narrative has been warped over the last couple of decades. Bret is more of the villan for taking everything too seriously, and Shawn is the patron saint of being flashy. Especially to the AEW fans who merely want this to succeed just to spite WWE instead of wanting it to succeed because it's actually any good on a consistent basis.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Punk is only the common denominator because it’s the same group of insecure, entitled cunts causing the problems. You don’t go on global fucking television and air your dirty laundry. Taking the issue up backstage? That’s an entirely different thing. Jack Perry tried to hijack AEW’s biggest show (or at least the free part of it). Fuck that noise. I HATE that sort of unprofessionalism. Give me a dick who at least turns it on when it’s showtime, thanks. Joey Janela did the same shit, Adam Page did it too.

Punk is the most important asset AEW has. They’re so lucky he doesn’t swing his dick around more. The fact Tony Khan can’t keep his lower ranks in line in some serious all-time horrendous management. Punk is the one trying to grow the business and help younger talent, and he’s out there fighting for himself because this shit is run so poorly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And Daniels being pro-Elite in the brawl is why Punk doesn’t want him at Collision, Seph. That’s exactly the point. There are too many people inept at their jobs in a position because of nepotism. The whole system there needs a gutting.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And the Punk/Miro thing was a joke. Even Alvarez is walking back from it and swearing he didn’t make up stories…honest. Punk helped Miro in WWE, got him off the bench in AEW. Miro apparently checked on Punk and Punk said “Yeah, unless you want to fight me too. Let’s take it outside.” Then Miro said “Let’s take it to the ring.”

[xrodmuc316]

NO FUCKING WAY :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Calling all fans in Chicago for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWAllOut?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWAllOut</a>! Join us this THURSDAY from 7-8pm at Main Event Hoffman Estates and meet AEW Stars &amp; Chicago's own <a href="https://twitter.com/ColtCabana?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ColtCabana</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/Skyebyee?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Skyebyee</a>, along with Hollywood Hunk's Ryan Nemeth + more! It’s simple: Donate $10+ at <a href="https://t.co/w1tstsJGmV">https://t.co/w1tstsJGmV</a> for entry… <a href="https://t.co/EFu1tVgaAd">pic.twitter.com/EFu1tVgaAd</a></p>&mdash; AEWTogether (@AEWTogether) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEWTogether/status/1696735820261020127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Nerfect]

Are they allowed to use “Together” like that in marketing?

[Ben Rodrigues]

And the Punk/Miro thing was a joke. Even Alvarez is walking back from it and swearing he didn’t make up stories…honest. Punk helped Miro in WWE, got him off the bench in AEW. Miro apparently checked on Punk and Punk said “Yeah, unless you want to fight me too. Let’s take it outside.” Then Miro said “Let’s take it to the ring.”

Nice! Wonder who leaked the original story to the wrestling media.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Alvarez said he heard it from “5” guys (not the Japanese faction). None of them apparently expressed it was a joke. Now people are saying either it didn’t happen or it was a joke, and Alvarez is calling them liars either now or at the time.

[Ben Rodrigues]

:lol: hilarious! Some might say that Alvarez is a cancer within the wrestling industry.

[Vastardikai]

NO FUCKING WAY :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Calling all fans in Chicago for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWAllOut?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWAllOut</a>! Join us this THURSDAY from 7-8pm at Main Event Hoffman Estates and meet AEW Stars &amp; Chicago's own <a href="https://twitter.com/ColtCabana?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ColtCabana</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/Skyebyee?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Skyebyee</a>, along with Hollywood Hunk's Ryan Nemeth + more! It’s simple: Donate $10+ at <a href="https://t.co/w1tstsJGmV">https://t.co/w1tstsJGmV</a> for entry… <a href="https://t.co/EFu1tVgaAd">pic.twitter.com/EFu1tVgaAd</a></p>&mdash; AEWTogether (@AEWTogether) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEWTogether/status/1696735820261020127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Money says that Skye has no idea what this about. Because she is an idiot.

Or, LOOK! 3 big asses!

[Sting Fan]

My take away from all this continues to be that Hangmans the man. He should go over Punk for the "Real World Title" in a Diesel/Backlund style squash on a Chicago PPV.

[Sting Fan]

Money says that Skye has no idea what this about. Because she is an idiot.

Or, LOOK! 3 big asses!

I dont get it, what am I missing?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I dont get it, what am I missing?

A lot

[Stu Hart]

Saying Shawn wasn't the draw Bret was immediately discredits you. Bret was a better wrestler, sure. But Shawn was also pretty damn good and had things Bret didn't, like charisma and showmanship.

Blaming the elite here is also stupid. How many stories have you heard about them sending people home? Outside of Punk, how many stories are there about them having nonstop confrontations with people backstage? Speaking of the elite, and also in reference to us not talking about out and out crimes here, didn't they just put over Punks besties, and specifically, Cash "I'll pull a strap on a buster" Wheeler?


A draw is who brings in money. If you don't know that Bret was a much bigger draw than Shawn then you are probably not factoring international markets where tours were booked around Bret, even while Shawn was champion (see 1996).

The elite went into Punks lockerroom - that escalated this. There is no denying that. Is Punk an asshole ? sure. He also drew more for AEW than anyone else on the roster. They dont just hand out timeslots on TNT - Collision is a thing because of Punks star power.

Punk is a problem in that he probably feels a responsibility and need to be the lockerroom leader. Thats on him. Jungle boy and the rest of the ELITE hated punk before there were any problems.

THE ELITE NEVER WANTED PUNK IN AEW - BEFORE ANY PROBLEMS
Here is a video of them reacting like assholes to Punk Debuting.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zLCQzbTIqRY?si=gfLy441ce-HFN1vt&amp;start=33" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>


If you are an EVP of a company you would react like a jealous child to someone bringing such a strong position reaction to your company ?



Good Day Sir!

[GD]

Sir, they’re being facetious.

[Sepholio]

Lol they went to his locker room because he told them to. Punk marks are the most in denial people lol.

[Frank Drebin]

I dont get it, what am I missing?

A lot

What's wrong with Skye Blue?

[Vastardikai]

What's wrong with Skye Blue?

She isn't a smart person. I may have been harsher than I meant, but she isn't exactly the brightest crayon in the box. Thinking fans should just make their own Skye Blue hats instead of selling them, for instance. Not adding input for a match she was in, as mentioned by Lufisto.

The three asses jokes was a Crack at the 3rd best Chicago guy and the lesser Nemeth.

For the record, Punk is 2nd.

[Splaya]

The Elite don't send people home because they just play with the people they want to play with and really don't care about anything outside of that.





This really made me laugh but it makes sense. I do often believe that the MONEY MATCH is the Elite versus CMFTR but the Bucks won't do it because Punk will use the UFC experience he has and work super stiff with fists and submissions and the Bucks only realistically have flips that require oversells (Punk won't sell that shit) and kicks (which also require sells and Punk won't do it)

[GD]

This really made me laugh but it makes sense. I do often believe that the MONEY MATCH is the Elite versus CMFTR but the Bucks won't do it because Punk will use the UFC experience he has and work super stiff with fists and submissions and the Bucks only realistically have flips that require oversells (Punk won't sell that shit) and kicks (which also require sells and Punk won't do it)

Despite Punk's subpar in-ring skills, he's been a "professional" once the bell rings. I doubt he'd ever take liberties and harm his opponents even if he despises them.

[Splaya]

GD, I do not disagree with you. But if that was really the case, then why do the Bucks and Omega refuse the match then.

[drave]

Despite Punk's subpar in-ring skills, he's been a "professional" once the bell rings. I doubt he'd ever take liberties and harm his opponents even if he despises them.




He couldn't for real harm Tony Khan. He is an IRL bitch

[xrodmuc316]

Money says that Skye has no idea what this about. Because she is an idiot.

Or, LOOK! 3 big asses!

I am wondering if Punk has some fued with Skye Blue that has not yet been made public considering who else is on the meet and greet :lol:

[Stu Hart]

Lol they went to his locker room because he told them to. Punk marks are the most in-denial people lol.

"Because he told them to" This is such a ridiculous statement to absolve the Elite.

So let me get this straight, EVP's of a company storm a contracted workers lockerroom knowing there is likely to be an altercation. Can you say "unsafe work environment"?

The end result is that Punk could have sued the company based on this. No wonder he can dictate who can be backstage and who can't.

Thank you for essentially proving the point that the Elite are a bunch of self-serving shitheads who are not thinking of the company but rather their own pals and interests.

Dont get me wrong - I used to like CM punk much more than I currently do. The problem is that you either play on the Elite's terms or you're on the outs. Punk is not a guy who will be bitched out, and the Elite knows this. They are peeved that he drew more people to AEW since its inception than any of them.

Punk is on a guaranteed contract. He has legal cause due tot he EVPs getting physical with him.

[xrodmuc316]

Arguing over who was a bigger draw, Shawn/Bret doesnt really apply when you are using it to describe a company that the owner just recently admitted has not made a profit in going on 5 years.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Walk into someone’s private locker room as an employee of a venue or company uninvited and see what that opens for you, legality-wise. Barging into a star’s personal locker room is very likely to be read as a breach of contract. And if the Bucks wanted a fight, they got one.

By the way, Punk said he’d walk up and down the halls to go with anyone who had a problem. He didn’t invite people to kick in his door, smack his dog and threaten his friend’s injured wife.

Punk takes things seriously. Probably too seriously in the inconsequential clown show that is modern wrestling. But if you can’t the systemic attempts to bully and gaslight because there’s a guy who shows this can still be an art form? You’re not thinking with your head.

[Stu Hart]

Arguing over who was a bigger draw, Shawn/Bret doesnt really apply when you are using it to describe a company that the owner just recently admitted has not made a profit in going on 5 years.

Over simplification. AEW is gaining traction, and they will stabilize. If your basis of comparison is WWe then it will do you well to remember how long they have been in existence. Factor in the pandemic as well.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If I were Punk, this thing would go one of two ways:

1) I use a parachute clause in my contract or demand a buyout and go on my merry way because this shit isn’t worth the stress or risks to my health. If Tony Khan can’t educate his roster to not bite the hand that feeds them, fuck them. Let’s see what happens when Tony has to justify Collision to get the TV rights fees he needs without the only needle-mover they have.

2) I go above Tony, get WBD to start laying down the law and start being tougher on these assholes. No more Jungle Boy. You act like that on the air and try to fuck a property trying to expand via WBD media platforms, you get fucking cut down. Pull your fucking heads in and start being professional. There’s an effective and an ineffective way to do things, which is why CM Punk is money and basically no one else in the company is. They don’t know what they’re doing and won’t be listened to any more.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ve been in situations where you can’t trust management to handle things or do right by people. It fucking sucks. I honestly don’t know what I’d do if I had the view of Tony Khan I imagine I would if I was in Punk’s shoes. I really wouldn’t blame him for leaving, whether he gets the full amount owing on his contract or not.

It might also depend on whether or not he can edge other guys out of their deals too. There’s no doubt a bit of a hero complex in Punk. Does he want to leave FTR, Joe, Starks, Hobbs, Andrade, etc. to rot in that company? I guess it depends on what they want, but I doubt other talent have the escape clauses Punk does. Anyone looking to sign with AEW should look into that though.

[xrodmuc316]

Over simplification. AEW is gaining traction, and they will stabilize. If your basis of comparison is WWe then it will do you well to remember how long they have been in existence. Factor in the pandemic as well.

I am saying there is no reason to argue who is a bigger draw, Punk or Elite, since they haven't made any profit. That is not their faults, it is Tiny's. If that dude is giving the Young Bucks of all people $3 million a year, then the company clearly doesnt care about making money.

Who draws more in AEW doesn't matter in the slightest because there is no need to draw, Tony will fund it regardless. He is not putting up with all this shit because these guys are cash cows for him, he is putting up with it because he is afraid of people not liking him.

And what traction are they gaining BTW? All In is over, they are going right back to selling 4000 tickets and getting 850,000 tv viewers this week.

[Stu Hart]

The boys and the office don't mix, and the boys SHOULDN'T be the office.

All EVPs should be stripped of any executive powers while they are currently active as talent. Tony Khan really needs to lay down the law on Punk and the Elite. He needs to bring in someone in talent relations than is not biased. He will learn - these things take time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

To be fair, I’m not sure The Elite actually have any power anymore. I think it was all stripped away when it became evident they weren’t the bookers they claimed to be.

[Splaya]

I am saying there is no reason to argue who is a bigger draw, Punk or Elite, since they haven't made any profit. That is not their faults, it is Tiny's. If that dude is giving the Young Bucks of all people $3 million a year, then the company clearly doesnt care about making money.

Who draws more in AEW doesn't matter in the slightest because there is no need to draw, Tony will fund it regardless. He is not putting up with all this shit because these guys are cash cows for him, he is putting up with it because he is afraid of people not liking him.

And what traction are they gaining BTW? All In is over, they are going right back to selling 4000 tickets and getting 850,000 tv viewers this week.

I'd bet this for sure.

If Punk is deemed to be off suspension and eligible to be at Collision, I would run advertisements stating "CM Punk to open Collision to discuss the events of All In". Ratings would be very high because a lot of people would tune in which would uspet the Bucks. But if the rating was just the same as the past, the Bucks could just argue "See no one cares about him".

Which would be ironic because it would mean AEW would be admitting that no one cares about Collision but whatever.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Punk being a bigger draw is relevant because it shows what could hypothetically be possible under good management, versus what is just not possible at all. That’s the source of all this Punk/Elite heat. Punk has proven that you can get 1 million viewers late Friday night. The narrative was supposed to be that the fuckabout gang was doing the best it’s possible for anyone in their slot to do. False.

It doesn’t matter if AEW has CM Punk, gets Goldberg, gets Steve Austin — that’s where it becomes irrelevant, because the product is largely a joke outside the star power. That’s on Tony.

[xrodmuc316]

Punk being a bigger draw is relevant because it shows what could hypothetically be possible under good management, versus what is just not possible at all. That’s the source of all this Punk/Elite heat. Punk has proven that you can get 1 million viewers late Friday night. The narrative was supposed to be that the fuckabout gang was doing the best it’s possible for anyone in their slot to do. False.

It doesn’t matter if AEW has CM Punk, gets Goldberg, gets Steve Austin — that’s where it becomes irrelevant, because the product is largely a joke outside the star power. That’s on Tony.

LOL that happened once, because after 7 years people wanted to know what he would do. Any comeback he makes now does not have 7 years of waiting behind it. Collision had him come back after like 9 months, and they came nowhere close to a million viewers.

[Lock Jaw]

Reports coming out that during the scuffle some monitors fell onto Tiny Khan. This is my favorite thing ever :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

He probably started chanting "This is awesome!"

[Mr. Nerfect]

LOL that happened once, because after 7 years people wanted to know what he would do. Any comeback he makes now does not have 7 years of waiting behind it. Collision had him come back after like 9 months, and they came nowhere close to a million viewers.

Yeah, but it happened. That’s all you need to make guys like The Elite and their ilk jealous. The critical reviews. Young talent looking up to Punk’s work and there actually being an answer for “How do I improve?” whereas The Elite have always been “Do whatever you feel.”

We also don’t have the data on how much of Punk’s numbers — on Collision or otherwise — are the same viewers versus unique viewers. I only bring that up because Saturday night is such a horrendous night for television and I’m willing to bet Punk has more casual appeal as a wrestler than any of The Elite do.

You have Punk doing the Zaslav flex. Even Meltzer’s camp takes a “Punk might be good for business, BUT…” stance. There are almost certainly dimensions to Punk’s appeal that aren’t reflected in Dave Meltzer’s reporting, and that would be enough to make guys who want the narrative to be “500k on Wednesday is a good number” tense.

[rez]

I forgive each and every one of you that ignored or didn't acknowledge my plea for an illegal stream of the PPV. #WWAAAD

[screech]

All EVPs should be stripped of any executive powers while they are currently active as talent.

I swear I read something on here about the network brass stripping The Elite of their EVP titles after the brawl. Did that happen or am I conflating it with something else?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t think that happened. That’s just what people thought would be common sense.