Is Derek Jeter the most overated player in Baseball? [Archive]

Yashamaga

07-03-2004, 06:54 PM

holy shit, at least on FOX he is.

I've been watching this game today between the Mets and MFYs and all these commentators (Tim McCarver and some other jackass) do is kiss Jeter's ass. Sure, he's clutch and everything, but his stats aren't even that great really. and about that catch he made against the sox the other night - it wasn't that special. he made the catch and then jumped into the crowd. so what? Don't give me that crap about him having the courage to dive into the stands, it was either that or hit the wall. most players in the league could have made that play.

I'm not denying that he's a good player, but he's not the God that everyone in the media says he is.

Supreme Olajuwon

07-03-2004, 07:18 PM

He's not the greatest player but he is the unquestioned leader that keeps that team from exploding. So I guess he has that going for him

John la Rock

07-03-2004, 07:20 PM

I agree and disagree with your opinion.

I agree that Fox does kiss his ass a little too much because of his past accomplishments. His numbers are no where near his 1998-2000 numbers (when he was the best player in baseball IMO) and they talk about how he is god.

But it's hard to call a player overrated when he has 4 World Championships and is one of the best playoff performers in baseball. He is also extremely martketable to the public because of his looks, skills, and personality (much like David Beckham) so he does deserve a lot of credibilty.

loopydate

07-03-2004, 08:07 PM

I agree partially with La Rock. His ability to kick it up a notch in the playoffs does warrant some recognition.

But, keep in mind, that John Paxson was a clutch performer for the Bulls during their mid-'90s Championship runs, and no one is ever going to confuse Paxson for one of the best point guards of that era.

Boomer

07-03-2004, 08:08 PM

I think Bonds is way overrated. He was a really good player when he was fast and could hit HRs. 40/40 Club stuff.

Supreme Olajuwon

07-03-2004, 08:13 PM

Barry Bonds has the best swing in the history of baseball. He might be a dick but he's not overrated

loopydate

07-03-2004, 08:15 PM

Barry Bonds has the best swing in the history of baseball. He might be a dick but he's not overrated
Yeah, but that's all he has anymore. He used to be a top defensive outfielder and a baserunning threat, but since he started taking ste--nutritional supplements, all he is is a power hitter with a hell of a stroke.

Boomer

07-03-2004, 08:15 PM

Barry Bonds has the best swing in the history of baseball. He might be a dick but he's not overrated

I can't argue with that. But I think its much more of an accomplishment to get 40 HRs and 40 steals than an average of 60 HRs in a season. But that's just me.

Supreme Olajuwon

07-03-2004, 08:21 PM

I'd agree with you guys if he was hitting .270 or .280 and hitting 40 homers but he's hitting .350. Nobody says Todd Helton or Jim Thome is overrated and they don't run either.

MrMeJW

07-03-2004, 08:22 PM

Excellance of Execution

07-03-2004, 08:44 PM

As much as it pains me to say as a Red Sox fan, Jeter is a great player. The New York fans shit on him the begining of this season, booing him all during his slump and yet he still gives 110% for them. The catch he made the other night was pretty impressive and I don't think Nomar would of done it.

Most Boston fans love Nomar no matter what kind of slump he is in. They stand by him and cheer him all the time but lately he just sulks around the duggout. Its like he doesn't give a crap anymore.

I am getting fed up with Nomar's crap and wouldn't mind seeing him traded. </rant
First off i'm a big Yankee's fan, so with that said, How would you feel if you were Nomar? Put yourself in his shoes, he put's up big number's year after year, is/was one of the best defensive shortstop's in the game, a clubhouse leader, and on top of all that he has lot's of ties to charity organizations in Boston. How is he rewarded? He doesn't get offered a "marker friendly" contract so he turns it down, then he get's rumored to be traded and replaced by A-Rod. I'd be pissed too. They did the same thing with Mo Vaughn and Roger Clemens. That's why i never feel sorry for the Red Sox when they lose year after year after year. They are a poorly run organization that doesn't have a clue what LOYALTY is. The Sox trading or letting go of the above mentioned player's would be like the Yanks letting Jeter go or trading him. It's not something you should do. Now Nomar probably feel's alienated, so he probably will get traded, so when/if that happens, i hope he smokes the Sox every time he plays them, and maybe the Sox will learn that you should take care of your loyal player's.

YOUR Hero

07-03-2004, 11:18 PM

YOUR Hero

07-03-2004, 11:19 PM

And Yash, Nomar is a great player too, but until he can perform in the playoffs and not seem so pouty, he'll never be in Jeter's catergory.

Loose Cannon

07-03-2004, 11:21 PM

Jeter is a fucking god. No better leader, no better heart or character in baseball. He has declined some over the years due to injuries, but look at his numbers, even this year, very good all things considered.

Wow, we agree today. Couldn't have said it better myself. Look, the guy is pure class and is a true leader. The Yankees have won four championships since he came along, have been to six World Series and have made the playoffs every year. What more can you ask for?

Loose Cannon

07-03-2004, 11:24 PM

BTW: Nomar is finished in Boston. They're were saying on Basebal Tonight yesterday how the Sox have to get him out of there because he doesn't really want to be there anymore. He was the only guy sitting on the bench the whole Sox/Yanks game while everyone was standing up cheering. It's like he doesn't give a shit about his team anymore

Boomer

07-04-2004, 12:37 AM

I'd agree with you guys if he was hitting .270 or .280 and hitting 40 homers but he's hitting .350. Nobody says Todd Helton or Jim Thome is overrated and they don't run either.

But they don't overrate them either. I just think people glorify Bonds a little too much. But he is a force to be reckoned with definitely.

Boomer

07-04-2004, 12:41 AM

And you know why I like Jeter? Because he has NO scandals involved with him. He's clean. No money issues. No "suppliments". No problems with teammates or anything. He is worthy of his role in NY.

YOUR Hero

07-04-2004, 01:07 AM

Wow, we agree today. Couldn't have said it better myself. Look, the guy is pure class and is a true leader. The Yankees have won four championships since he came along, have been to six World Series and have made the playoffs every year. What more can you ask for?
I bet you thought I was a Yankee hater because of my Giambi comments. Well I'm not. There are guys like Jeter and Williams that a person can't help but admire. I don't care for Steinbrenner and the attitudes of some of their players, but I give credit where it is due.

Bonds for example is a fuckhead, but he has an amazing swing. I can't believe he still hits like he does and can with all the walks he gets. His defence is still good, it was never great (even though he had 8 GoldGloves) Fast jump on fly balls and a quick release even though he doesn't have a strong arm. Only 500HR/500SB guy ever. No denying him his dues. Too bad he is such an arrogant bastard.

Loose Cannon

07-04-2004, 01:51 AM

Yeah, i'm not a big fan of Steinbrenner, but he has helped in getting us Championships, so I cant really complain. Bonds is a dick though.

VonErich Lives

07-04-2004, 01:53 AM

Ok, I'm a sox fan, and I don't like the Yanks.

IF you go on pure stats, No, Jeters not the best SS, you'd have to go A-rod (before the move to 3rd) the Nomar and the Jeter.

But you can't just measure it by that. Jeter is a great all-around player, a team leader and someone who truely carries the "yankee tradition".

The play was a great play, full speed, one handed grab... close game and 2 outs he knew they needed the out.

Meanwhile, our boy Nomar, was on the bench "trying to get loose"... what crap, I've always been a huge nomar fan... but he's gotta get his head outta his ass, or maybe out of Mia's, whatever it is... and I know, he's had 2 good games... well, let's see a few more... let's see him make routine fielding plays and put the ball in play, enough of this first pitch pop-up shit.

That being said, McCarver hasbeen, is and always will be a yankee suck-up.

Jesus Shuttlesworth

07-04-2004, 02:32 AM

Jeter is one the top shortstops in the game, yeah he isn't even the best Shortstop on the Yanks but who isn't A-Rod better then?

I don't really think he is overrated either, I kinda think that play was though. I mean it was a good play, and in a key point in the game. But everybody is getting hung up on his fall into the stands, I mean that showed a lot of heart or whatever but if there was more foul ground in Yankee Stadium that catch was pretty average

The Miz

07-04-2004, 02:39 AM

Why does everyone think Barry Bonds is an ass? He's not

Jesus Shuttlesworth

07-04-2004, 02:40 AM

"Boston is too racist for me"

When he has never even been here

YOUR Hero

07-04-2004, 02:46 AM

Come on Miz, Bonds has played the race card twice this year alone. Not to mention other times in his career.... like he's ever been oppressed. Fucking guy has lived a life of wealth and priviledge all his life, he's in no position to make those types of comments.

Supreme Olajuwon

07-04-2004, 03:14 AM

The guy demanded a recliner and plasma tv in his locker room and a seperate space from the rest of his teammates

Thats being an ass

Loose Cannon

07-04-2004, 03:27 AM

Bonds pissed me off when he said something about Babe Ruth. He was like "The only number I've ever strived for was May's, but if I get past that I'd be happy to wipe out the Babe." What an ass. No respect. He said a few more racist comments during that interview too.

Jesus Shuttlesworth

07-04-2004, 03:29 AM

Yea I remember hearing something like that too

The Outlaw

07-04-2004, 03:37 AM

If I remember correctly, he said he would be happy to break the fat white guy's record

Seems like it was something along those lines anyway. Pretty bad

Loose Cannon

07-04-2004, 03:40 AM

Yeah, seriously a dick. Bonds strikes me as the kind of guy Damon Waynes played in "Celtic Pride." Different Sport, but he seems like that.

Yashamaga

07-04-2004, 06:11 PM

haha that movie rules

DegenerationY

07-05-2004, 03:44 AM

Jeter - not overrated. Not the best player in baseball, but not overrated. Time will tell if he's hall-of-fame calibre. If his career ended now, he'd be in.

Now to Bonds.

Barry Bonds can be a dick, but he is far from overrated. I'm not saying that because i'm a Giants fan.

And to whoever said he can't run anymore and all he can do is hit. It's not solely the supplements. It's also called age. He's nearing 40 years old and is still batting around .350

BTW, he does more than hit homeruns. He's a solid ALL AROUND hitter. But when he's that old, the legs give out on you. They give out on ANYBODY.

Jesus Shuttlesworth

07-05-2004, 05:34 AM

I don't think anyone was calling Barry overrated, and if they were, they are wrong

He is the best hitter I have ever witnessed in my life. Like you said, he isn't just a homerun or strike out guy like McGuire (don't get me wrong with that comment, Big Mac was still the fuckin man) but he actually hits for average too. With all this talk about 'roids I dunno I am starting to doubt it. I saw guys get smaller, like Giambi and somebody you guys probably don't see a lot but I also noticed Gabe Kapler's decrease in size from last year. I am sure there is more too, Bonds on the other hand didn't "shrink" down at all. I mean there is a lot of reasons why that is, but maybe one of them is that he isn't really on 'roids.

The CyNick

07-05-2004, 05:13 PM

I dotn know how anyone can question Jeter? To me the measure of a player is how they perform in the playoffs, and DJ has done it over and over again. And not to over hype one catch, but how many other players will make that kind of play in July? I dont know, I dont know how anyone can say he's overrated. But then again I'm biased I admit it.

MrMeJW

07-06-2004, 03:41 PM

First off i'm a big Yankee's fan, so with that said, How would you feel if you were Nomar? Put yourself in his shoes, he put's up big number's year after year, is/was one of the best defensive shortstop's in the game, a clubhouse leader, and on top of all that he has lot's of ties to charity organizations in Boston. How is he rewarded? He doesn't get offered a "marker friendly" contract so he turns it down, then he get's rumored to be traded and replaced by A-Rod. I'd be pissed too. Manny was part of that trade too and he is doing great. He is more involved with fans and the media then ever before.

It's all part of baseball. If Nomar can't handle it then maybe he is in the wrong profession. Also, Nomar's game has been getting worse and worse year after year.

Smitty

07-06-2004, 03:51 PM

I hope that Bonds retires soon, I'll be damned if he breaks Hank Aaron's HR record.

BCWWF

07-06-2004, 04:44 PM

I personally don't think Barry will stay around to break Aarons record. Give him four more years and he will break the record, no doubt. To do that though, he will probably have to join an American League team, and with all of the BALCO stuff it doesn't seem like he will overstay his welcome and risk being caught.

BCWWF

07-06-2004, 04:45 PM

Also, was anyone else a little surprised to see Bonds in the All-Star game ads? I thought that was the last type of thing he would do.

Wolverine

07-07-2004, 02:38 PM

I am a huge Yankee fan, and no Jeter is not overrated. If I were to rank the top 3 shortstops it have to be A-rod, Jeter then Nomar...

I like Nomar dun get me wrong but he is constantly getting hurt, and as said before, to pouty. He hasn't played clutch in the playoffs, and well I dun blame him now for bein upset, he was said to be traded to make Room for Arod, and now he wasn't, I'd feel like I wasn't wanted to.

The play Jeter made, I dunno if many others could make that play, the fact he sacrificed his body as he's done time and time before, shows to me he is one of the best players in the league. His numbers are down, and yes more so this year, but he did have a hell of a slump. If you dun remember pretty much every yankee has been booed in his own stadium, they're fans are they're harshest critics...but if you remember towards the end of his slump they cheered, they pushed him on, they tried to support him, and help him in all the ways they could, and in my honest opinion, can't get more loyal fans than that.

Jeter isn't overrated, I'd rather have him on my team than anyone else...he knows how to lead a team, he'd make a hell of a coach after his career ended.

The Outlaw

07-08-2004, 01:25 AM

You are completely right. He has the most loyal fans ever. Any fans that boo you at home are loyal.

The Miz

07-08-2004, 01:47 AM

Anyone know why Bonds isn't in the derby

BCWWF

07-08-2004, 03:11 AM

Probably because he's a dick. I was surprised to see him in the ad's though.

DegenerationY

07-08-2004, 04:20 AM

LOL solid argument BCWWF.

He hasn't been in the derby for a couple years. He's been in them enough to be able to step aside and let the others have their day.

He's in the ads because, gee... he's one of the biggest names in baseball history?

The Outlaw

07-08-2004, 04:24 AM

Hes also a dick.

;)

BCWWF

07-08-2004, 04:44 AM

I was surprised he was in the ads because he isn't in the players organization anymore and doesn't seem to care about major league baseball as a whole. I didn't think he was forced to do things by not being in the mlbpa, I don't know where I'm going, somebody bail me out.

DegenerationY

07-08-2004, 05:28 AM

He still likes making money.

If appearing in an ad for a game that he will be participating in will make him money, he will appear in the ad.

Just because he's independent of the mlbpa doesn't mean he has nothing to do with baseball.

DegenerationY

07-08-2004, 05:28 AM

YES WE ALL KNOW HE CAN BE A DICK.

but it isn't the answer to everything, you know :mad:

The Outlaw

07-08-2004, 05:44 AM

Rock Bottom

07-08-2004, 07:33 AM

I don't follow sports much, and I dunno how much hype Jeter gets but I remember it being alot. I used to be jaded about it back when I still followed baseball, but I've seen him do some pretty amazing defensive plays. So I dunno. He's impressive.

ct2k

07-08-2004, 04:41 PM

He's a great defensive player for sure. And a fantastic hitter.

He is consistently batting around or over 300, gets a LOT of hits consistently, he can steal, he scores a lot and his power numbers are coming along this season since his awful start.

He's not A-Rod in the power department, but he's just as valuable as him at the plate as lead-off or second in the order and he's a great team leader.

Ofcourse this is horrendously biased :p

DegenerationY

07-09-2004, 02:43 AM

By the way...

Bonds officially in Home Run Derby
Slugger confirms his participation in annual contest
By Rich Draper / MLB.com

Barry Bonds won the Home Run Derby in 1996 in Philadelphia. (Marcio Jose Sanchez/AP)

SAN FRANCISCO -- Giants slugger Barry Bonds confirmed on Thursday that he will compete in the Century 21 Home Run Derby at the 75th All-Star Game next Monday at Minute Maid Park in Houston.
He had been hesitant to reveal his plans for the much-anticipated slugging contest, which will feature fellow members of the 500 home run club Sammy Sosa of the Chicago Cubs and Ken Griffey Jr. of Cincinnati, along with 2002 Derby winner Jason Giambi.

"I'm competing in the homer-hitting contest," said Bonds prior to taking batting practice on Thursday night. The 39-year-old veteran will be making his 13th appearance at the Midsummer Classic.

The Home Run Derby will be a special one this time, featuring a fabled cast of other 500 club members on hand. Attendees will include Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Ernie Banks, Harmon Killebrew, Mike Schmidt, Willie Mays, Willie McCovey and Reggie Jackson.

Mays has become almost a surrogate father and batting coach for Bonds following the death of Barry's father, former Giants All-Star Bobby Bonds, last August. Mays (660), McCovey (521) and Bonds make San Francisco the only franchise with three players having more than 500 career homers.

Bonds won the event in 1996 at Veteran's Stadium in Philadelphia