MLS Talk/US Poland Friendly

[BCWWF]

I know probably nobody here actually pays attention weekly to the MLS, but some of us know at least whats going on.

The reason I made this thread is because an article in last weeks Sports Illustrated went into more detail about the Chivas USA(I think thats what its called) Expansion team.

Basically one of the most popular clubs in Mexico is owned by a Mark Cuban type, and he wants to create a version of the Mexican team based in LA. I think this is a really good idea and will have huge effects in LA, probably in Dallas aswell. I say don't stop there, they should try to get Club America to make an MLS expansion and put it in another Latino hotbed, maybe New Mexico or somewhere in Texas.

Does anyone know or wanna chat about this? I may have done a poor job explaining, so ask me if you don't know, I think I have a pretty good understanding of the situation right now.

[Loose Cannon]

MLS is soooo boring and I love football/soccer. I watch a lot of Premiership and other countires games on Fox Sports World, so maybe that's why it's boring to me. But kudos to them tying to expand the game in America. The U.S. needs this. Did you know FIFA ranked us 7TH in the world. lol

[Gonzo]

Talk about homerism.

[BCWWF]

The gameplay in the MLS is clearly one of the reasons that it hasn't taken off better. I remember they had the season opener (and Freddy's debut) on ABC, and the game was just awful, hacking, penalties galore. That is the main thing right now, but I think the Chivas idea could really boost some things.

[Gonzo]

I don't know, I am kind of indifferent. Football as they call it is widely popular pretty much everywhere but the United States. It doesn't have as deeply embedded roots as it does like in Europe and such. It would be very difficult to get people excited about it. Something truly spectacular would have to take place to gain people's interests.

[BCWWF]

Well I'm not assuming that the MLS will ever be near the Premiership, but better play, better venues, and better atmosphere would definately put it on the map.

[Loose Cannon]

See, the problem with soccer/footbal being popular in America is every kid usually grows up playing and watching your basic 4 sports (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, Football.) There is not a lot of room for people to care about soccer. It's not our countrie's past time and it's hard for people in America to accept a foreign sport. I think even if we win the WC one day, people still won't care. It's just how it is.

[BCWWF]

The sad thing is that we probably will win a world cup in the next 10-15 years, considering our resources etc.

[Loose Cannon]

See, the problem with soccer/footbal being popular in America is every kid usually grows up playing and watching your basic 4 sports (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, Football.) There is not a lot of room for people to care about soccer. It's not our countrie's past time and it's hard for people in America to accept a foreign sport. I think even if we win the WC one day, people still won't care. It's just how it is.

[Gonzo]

Soccer, in my opinion is boring. But likewise you would probably get that American Football is boring from any European.

[BCWWF]

Did anybody else (I assume Loose Cannon may have) catch the US vs Poland friendly today? I got home and turned on the tv just in time to see the Bocanegra equalizer in the 87th. I will say that the final seven minutes was definately well played soccer, and it is so much fun to watch high quality soccer compared to the MLS.

I think that this game shows that the MLS can make it in the United States. 40,000 people out for the days game (is that Soldier Field? if so it looks sweet now) and it was really well played. If you are flipping through the channels and stop there, you get an exciting well played match.

The MLS is just too bad quality. Another thing is that it probably wouldn't hurt the MLS to have less games, make it more exclusive. I think its going to catch on though.

[BCWWF]

There was also a Brazil and Costa Rica match on tv today (Univision), pretty good game from what I watched.

[Loose Cannon]

Did anybody else (I assume Loose Cannon may have) catch the US vs Poland friendly today? I got home and turned on the tv just in time to see the Bocanegra equalizer in the 87th. I will say that the final seven minutes was definately well played soccer, and it is so much fun to watch high quality soccer compared to the MLS.

I think that this game shows that the MLS can make it in the United States. 40,000 people out for the days game (is that Soldier Field? if so it looks sweet now) and it was really well played. If you are flipping through the channels and stop there, you get an exciting well played match.

The MLS is just too bad quality. Another thing is that it probably wouldn't hurt the MLS to have less games, make it more exclusive. I think its going to catch on though.

AW SHIT, I forgot it was yesterday and I was planning on watching it too. I hate when that happens. How did the U.S. look. Were they attacking or playing more defensively as usual.

[BCWWF]

It was actually a really good game I thought (even though I only saw the last seven minutes). In the time I watched we were attacking the whole time. We used a pretty solid lineup, Mathis, Donovan, I think McBride was in there, DMB, but the gameplay was :eek: compared to the MLS, and the stadium was pretty full. I haven't caught a European game in too long :o

[The Mask]

The sad thing is that we probably will win a world cup in the next 10-15 years, considering our resources etc.

bollocks

[BCWWF]

Its sad because its true

[The Mask]

You won't, trust me.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

10-15 years is an impossible prediction to make.

The USA won't be a better side than the Europeans or the South Americans any time soon, and I can see more success coming from Africa before the USA getting close to winning a World Cup.

The FIFA rankings are stupid.

[BCWWF]

At Japan/Korea we made the quarterfinals, beat Portugal and Mexico rather easilly, tied the host nation Korea, and were not outplayed one bit by Germany, one of our goals was blocked by a hand and if i'm not mistaken their goal came off a set play. We weren't going to win the World Cup in 2002, but we shocked the world with how good we were, and that was with Landon Donovan, DMB, Clint Mathis, Jim (i think) O'Brien still real young.

You guys are looking at United States soccer as the MLS, a league probably comparable to the 2nd or 3rd division in England. Well yes we do have players coming from there, but we also have players coming from Ajax, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspurs, no idea where Reyna is right now...needless to say we have guys doing big things on some of the biggest clubs in the world.

I am going to go as far as saying that I think the United States could beat England right now. We have one of the best goalies in the world (or should I say three of them) and our strikers are superior to Emilie Heskey and Owen lately, Beckham keeps blowing it in the big games...

You know the United States, if there is a sport out there we are going to eventually be dominant in it. We don't need an elite league of our own because our guys can go to the other elite leagues. It is the American mentality to win, as dumb as that may sound, we have a 15 year old who was being recruited by Milan, Inter and others, and they don't have the pressure of the whole nation on their backs because they have choked in international play.

Its not that hard to comprehend that the United States is developing as a soccer power, especially when its happening in your own backyard.

[BCWWF]

In all of that I forgot to mention the most important reason, resources.

Now the European and South American developmental programs are not dominant compared to the United States, we are coming up to par with the big powers, and we have millions more people to choose from. When you have as many people as the United States does, and a world class program, you are going to get some great soccer players, simple as that.

[Ogen]

America is not good at football they made the quater finals of the weakest world cup I can remember beating Korea and Mexico is not an achievemnet despite what the Fifa ranking might say. Your keepers are not among the best in the world at all and in general the team is shit. I'm not a fan of Micheal Owen or Emile Heskey but even Heskey pisses on your strikers. Bottom line is that when it comes down to nearly every team that just took part in the European Championships would beat America with the exception of one of two.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

You don't know what you're talking about.

The 2002 World Cup was a very poor tournament. Most of the big European teams, and Argentina, under-performed woefully. The USA weren't the only team to do better than they should have.

What you will see in reaction to this, and to Euro 2004, is a change in style from the big European countries, less reliance on big name players who don't pull their weight, to organised teams who play for each other, like the Greeks and the Czechs did. European football is getting stronger across the board, and complacency has creeped in amongst the top sides. Germany are in a trough, at the moment, also, however they will return to the elite sooner rather than later.

The American side right now is no where fucking near the English in quality. Even past the current side, there are still a hell of a lot of quality young English players who will be ready to step up to international football in the very near future.

The problem with England right now is a tactically inept manager, who is getting paid far too much money.

The USA are over-ranked at the moment. If Ireland drew the USA in the World Cup, I'd be very happy with the draw, and fully expect to beat them comfortably.

Your resources argument is stupid, and doesn't consider the fact that you can't churn footballers out like machinery. Having a larger population means you will have more players to choose from, of course, but Holland has been a top side for decades, now, and they don't have a huge country. They do, however, have a world class technical coaching tradition, and a love for the game.

While the US has Freddy Adu (and it's a bit too early to even talk about him being a world class player, at 15, and it is not unusual for big clubs to court talented young players), France, for example, have enough colonial ties to Africa to find countless more young Freddy Adus from Africa.

And if the African nations start to employ more experienced, tactically aware European coaches to harness their natural ability, they will most definitely progress into a serious footballing power base, mainly because they have the main instigator of footballing development: poverty.

[BCWWF]

That is just denial, in so many ways.

"Beating Korea and Mexico is not an achievement," first of all, nowhere in this whole post did I mention FIFA rankings, but the biggest part of this is that you failed to recognize that we beat Portugal by essentially two points (a late Agoos own goal, it didn't reflect the gameplay) and lost to Germany on a game where we outplayed them.

"Your keepers are not among the best in the world at all and in general the team is shit" That is just ignorant. Oliver Kahn is probably the consensus best keeper in the world, but all it takes is to look in your back yard to see who the best keepers in the Premiership are, and two of their names are Howard and Friedel.

"I'm not a fan of Micheal Owen or Emile Heskey but even Heskey pisses on your strikers." Owen in France 98, Heskey in...when again? I fail to see how Heskey "pisses" on Brian McBride, Landon Donovan, and Clint Mathis.

"Bottom line is that when it comes down to nearly every team that just took part in the European Championships would beat America with the exception of one of two." That is assuming that everybody in the world got much better and the United States core of young players have gotton worse. We beat Portugal in the World Cup and we finished equal to or higher than England, Italy, Ireland, Spain...


Its not a hard concept to confer, it may not be fair, but the United States has the resources to be the best at any sport in the world, we are starting to develop world class players in world class facilities with world class trainers. Whether or not soccer is popular in the US or not, we will be competing for a World Cup sooner than you think.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

The best goalkeepers in the Premiership, in my opinion, are Shay Given and Antti Niemi.

Gianluigi Buffon is the best goalkeeper in the world, also.

[BCWWF]

And if the African nations start to employ more experienced, tactically aware European coaches to harness their natural ability, they will most definitely progress into a serious footballing power base, mainly because they have the main instigator of footballing development: poverty.
You wrote a good post, but the last paragraph you have said exactly what I am saying, except about Africa. The United States now has the tactically aware coaches to harness the natural ability (I hope you aren't trying to make an argument that Americans aren't naturally good at soccer). The United States is in the middle of what you are predicting happens to Africa in the next ten years, and we have unlimited resources to fund the movement.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Its not a hard concept to confer, it may not be fair, but the United States has the resources to be the best at any sport in the world, we are starting to develop world class players in world class facilities with world class trainers. Whether or not soccer is popular in the US or not, we will be competing for a World Cup sooner than you think.

Bullshit. You haven't got a single world class outfield player, yet. Your entire team consists of average players who could do ok in national leagues, but who will never be considered world class.

As for "world class facilities", so fucking what? All of the European countries have world class training facilities. Most top clubs have world class training facilities, never mind the national associations.

What world class coaches does the USA have? I don't see too many of them working for the top sides in Europe.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

You wrote a good post, but the last paragraph you have said exactly what I am saying, except about Africa. The United States now has the tactically aware coaches to harness the natural ability (I hope you aren't trying to make an argument that Americans aren't naturally good at soccer). The United States is in the middle of what you are predicting happens to Africa in the next ten years, and we have unlimited resources to fund the movement.

Thing is, the Africans have been developing for the past 20 years. They've had a lot more experience in international football than the USA. Many people predicted an African world champion by the turn of the century. Didn't happen. Nigeria and Cameroon, the two most successful, they still haven't been able to really make an impact, despite their players gracing the top leagues and top clubs in Europe.

There is no single US player around now who suggests he will be a major world star, never mind the several players you need to make a World Cup winning side.

Again, if Ireland were to play the USA in the World Cup, I'd be happy with that, and expect to beat them (like we did in the last friendly we played earlier this year).

[BCWWF]

Hence why I didn't say that we are going to win the World Cup in 2006. We are not that good yet, but we are no longer a developing country in terms of soccer. Soccer was barely known in the United States before the 1990 World Cup, and up until now it has been developing more and more. IT IS NOT AN OUTRAGEOUS STATEMENT TO SAY THE UNITED STATES WILL SOMEDAY BE A SOCCER POWER! That is all I am trying to say!

[El Capitano Gatisto]

It isn't, but it's an outrageous statement to suggest they will win a World Cup in the next 10-15 years.

The USA isn't the only country developing on the world football stage. A hell of a lot of European countries, smaller countries, have got up to speed tactically and in terms of developing players.

[Ogen]

That is just denial, in so many ways.

"Beating Korea and Mexico is not an achievement," first of all, nowhere in this whole post did I mention FIFA rankings, but the biggest part of this is that you failed to recognize that we beat Portugal by essentially two points (a late Agoos own goal, it didn't reflect the gameplay) and lost to Germany on a game where we outplayed them.

"Your keepers are not among the best in the world at all and in general the team is shit" That is just ignorant. Oliver Kahn is probably the consensus best keeper in the world, but all it takes is to look in your back yard to see who the best keepers in the Premiership are, and two of their names are Howard and Friedel.

"I'm not a fan of Micheal Owen or Emile Heskey but even Heskey pisses on your strikers." Owen in France 98, Heskey in...when again? I fail to see how Heskey "pisses" on Brian McBride, Landon Donovan, and Clint Mathis.

"Bottom line is that when it comes down to nearly every team that just took part in the European Championships would beat America with the exception of one of two." That is assuming that everybody in the world got much better and the United States core of young players have gotton worse. We beat Portugal in the World Cup and we finished equal to or higher than England, Italy, Ireland, Spain...


Its not a hard concept to confer, it may not be fair, but the United States has the resources to be the best at any sport in the world, we are starting to develop world class players in world class facilities with world class trainers. Whether or not soccer is popular in the US or not, we will be competing for a World Cup sooner than you think.


"Brian McBride, Landon Donovan, and Clint Mathis" I'm sorry but on a world stage who the fuck are these people. McBrides had a average at best stint in the premiership and the other 2 are essentially nobodies. Kahn is no longer the worlds best keeper and Howard and Freidel are not considered the Premierships best keepers by a long shot. Also when has an American striker been better than even Emile Heskey who in my opinion is useless. A one off win over Portugal means nothing. A big part of the magic of football is the possibility of a giant killing by a lesser team which is exactly what that was. I'll repeat what ECG said the last world cup was not a good reflection on football. In no way at all are Korea one of the worlds best teams in fact I'm sure theres 32 teams in the world that are better

[BCWWF]

The USA isn't the only country developing on the world football stage. A hell of a lot of European countries, smaller countries, have got up to speed tactically and in terms of developing players.
That is true, but when you have millions more people to choose from you are more likely to find the naturally great players and develop them, so if country A has 1 million people and finds 20 good players, the USA has 10 million people and finds 200 good players, develop them right and the United States has the advantage.

[Ogen]

If all it takes is a big population then why have Holland produced some of the best ever players

[El Capitano Gatisto]

There is a lot more to it than that.

[BCWWF]

Where did I say that all it takes is a big population? I said that was an advantage.

[Ogen]

Right thats one advantage the disadvatages are that Americans are generally shit world sports hence your fake versions of circket and rugby

[BCWWF]

That makes absolutely no sense, but ok

[BCWWF]

And by that I am not just talking about the horrible grammar, but how you could be so misinformed at the United States dominance in international sports as a whole.

At least ECG is using real points :o

[Danny Electric]

Is Brian McBride that piece of crap that plays for Fulham?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

And by that I am not just talking about the horrible grammar, but how you could be so misinformed at the United States dominance in international sports as a whole.

At least ECG is using real points :o

What truly international sports does the US dominate?

[BCWWF]

The Olympics

[El Capitano Gatisto]

They send the most athletes. Relatively, the US isn't the most successful country.

No one really gives a shit about the Olympics, anyway. We all consider the Americans to be on copious drugs, and thus don't care any more.

[BCWWF]

That just means that we have the most of the best, we dominate more sports than anybody else

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Nobody really gives a shit about the Olympics, though. You're going to have to accept that at some stage.

They're too full of drugs and cheats. No one cares any more.

[BCWWF]

The Olympics have been around longer and is a much larger event than any other international sporting competition, and contrary to what you believe includes more than just track and field.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I know all about the Olympics, but they mean fuck all these days because countries, like the USA, and competitors are more interested in cheating to win than competing within the spirit of the ancient games. It's all about money and sponsorship, you might say.

So really, most of us just don't give a shit about the Olympics.

[BCWWF]

I could understand why someone from Ireland wouldn't care about the Olympics, but most of the world does

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Ha. An American commenting on what the rest of the world thinks. Good one.

You forget that the American attitude is actually far removed than the rest of the world, not the norm. The Olympics are nothing more than an occasional curiosity, which have lost any of the real interest people ever had due to the rampant cheating.

And you're right, we don't give much of a shit about athletics in Ireland. It's not because we don't win anything, because that wouldn't explain why we love rugby and football on the international stage. We're happy to see someone do well, of course.

[Moonax]

BCWWF do you ever have any interest in sports that don't directly involve the US or American competitors? There is more to sport than the US.

The US beating a poor Polish team and a divided Portuguese team does not make them world beaters. Likewise, as ECG said the FIFA rankings are a joke.

Given the current investigations into the majority of US medal winners in the last Olympics they are hardly a good example to cite of US dominance.